: Patch 7.10 notes
Heh, Lee Sin minus roughly 1.5% movement speed, how often is that going to make any difference?
: You are probably new to online gaming. Let me explain you something. When LoL was a new-ish game, they used to give away a lot of things. Why? because the playerbase was small-ish and they did it to attract more players (is exactly what Heroes is currently doing). When I joined back in season 2, you could get 3 free skins (one for youtube follow, one for email and I think the third was for twiter or something), they also give 2 more free skin for referal and give away a free skin if you were part of season 1 (sadly I wasn't part of it). At the end of season 2,everyone got a free skin and a free champion, also you could get some free skin chest (a gurantee skin not a shard) in a few events they did. IP boost could be earned pretty easily (just be part of a tourney and you had a 10 win IP boost that woudl stack, we used to play 2-3 tourney every weekend) By the end of Season 3, the playerbase was so big that they didn't need to do this and so they stopped. The second issue is sister products, Riot Games has none (you might as well call it LoL games at this point) so all the money must come from LoL. Blizzard on the other hand have far more successful games (granted not all of them are at big as LoL but still successful) so they can afford to cut the earning in a few games if they can recoup them in other.
Condescending isn't really the way to go. If they were making money with a smaller playerbase, they're not gonna stop making it now(unless people start flocking to more generous games). The money they "lose" is fraction of a fraction. With the amount of champions and skins in the game, people aren't going to get the specific things they want very often, and are going to end up buying them anyway in a large number of cases. A constant trickle of chances to get free things will keep people playing, which is likely to more than make up for the occasional case of someone getting a free item they would have spent cash on.
: The Heroes 2.0 loot system is a great example
League of legends forums, where even a topic about giving people stuff will be argued against :)
: you obviously don't know how big blizzard is, they are much more than just a couple games. riot is literally just a couple of games
Whether they have other projects or not, a company who makes decisions based on profit is not going to consistently dump money into a product that isn't making it back. It's not as if the guy in charge was like 'ok this isn't making money but i like it, lets give everything away for free and make up for it in wow subscriptions' :P
: Riots only source of money is skins, would you work for free? As long as its free to play, you shouldn't worry about having to buy skins. They are 100% useless in game anyways, literally just for looks.
Heroes also has a similar business model, just that they also sell mounts as non gameplay items. If they can give away the same exact things at a much faster level with a much smaller pool of total items, Riot can too.
: expect blizzard also has wow, diablo, starcraft and hearthstone, board game deals, clothing deals and a movie raking in money. what else does riot have mvm while awesome probably aint making them much money
Wow, you really think Blizzard will just eat losses for one of their games assuming the others will keep it alive? That's not an effective business model, especially since they continue to pay a team to release new content on a regular basis.
Rioter Comments
: FIRST but really tho ask me questions about the client and I'll get answers
Any chance skin selection will be moved to it's old place in champ select? I don't see any benefit to having to wait till the last timer to do so.
: Client Beta Update #3: Closer to Completion
Can you let us select a skin once we choose our champion? It's kind of awkward for it to only be allowed during the last countdown when you might be rushing anyway. Also, it's really inconvenient if you need to run afk before a game since you can't just pick your champ and be ready without waiting till the end.
: Patch Chat with the Playtest Team - 7.7
Any specific reason monster healing was removed from Camille, or was it just thrown in because minions had to go? It pretty much deletes what little jungle viability she has when her jungling wasn't the issue.
S0BE (NA)
: After seeing it in playtests I would imagine it's a lot less significant of a buff in game than it looks on paper. On paper it's like "WOW THATS A LOT OF CDR FOR A POWERFUL SPELL," but in game it really only gets that CDR a couple of times per game and the cooldown is not quite enough to be able to multicast it in a teamfight- so it becomes more of a "ok we got a pick or got a kill in this fight lemme blast the mid wave real quick" type of tool.
Sure it's not as bad as it looks, but its still clearly a significantly bigger buff to Lux in low elo than high, which was supposedly the opposite of the point.
: Patch 7.7 Notes
"How to capitalize on this is up to you, but you now have better options to deal with a Graves than spamming the ban button in champion select" Yeah, cause viable AP junglers right now are all over the place :P This won't help anything at all in most games. Also.... Shaco.... nerfs? How is he anywhere near Graves' level of insanity? Or are only a select few junglers allowed to be above average now? *cough* Rengarlovetap *cough* RIP Camille jungle, just threw that from kinda almost sorta ok to completely unusable :( Perhaps in the future if champs stop getting shoehorned into one role I guess, though I fail to see any possible situation where this needed to be removed from monsters. This patch is unfortunate, especially for the jungle. At least with the Amumu buffs, there will be one more choice of a champ that might maybe beat Graves under certain specific conditions... before he makes up for that death by instagibbing bot lane just as easily as ever. Lux.... good lord is this misguided. You realize you just created a buff with the intention of making her better in high level play that is specifically FAR more useful in low level play, right?
: Looking for a onetrick champ...
GP barrels are pretty ridiculous once you get used to using them. One success wins a teamfight pretty much hands down, and if it doesn't, it probably wasn't a winnable fight to begin with. On top of that, it works on charges so you get multiple back to back chances to hit it. Plus he's got a built in cleanse just in case. And people swear he's balanced too :D
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 23
For Lux, how exactly can you say giving her ult CD reduction on kill is NOT pubstompey. Now she'll get a free kill on almost every q she lands on a non tank, which is a lotta q's in low elo. Graves, how about you do something about his ridiculous animation canceling? The amount of damage he can put out at low level with this is completely stupid, and doesn't seem to fit any idea of what's balanced at all. If that has to stay, maybe take off true grit entirely, since he's not a tank or bruiser, and does way more damage than most marksmen(most champions?) for a significant portion of the game. A graves with no defensive items should not be able to get jumped at 20% health and 100-0 the enemy just because he's stacking his nonsensical passive and knows how to animation cancel.
Rioter Comments
: ***
You can get good cs is a 1v2 lane? Props to you. You can get good kill participation when your lane is camped by both mid and jungle and your team isn't taking a single objective to compensate? Good for you. You still play your best when it's obvious your team cares far more about arguing and egos than the actual game? Nice. If you get to the point where you don't feel like griefing people, maybe you'll get a good rank if you don't get banned again.
: Yeah but she just does it too well. It's just that simple > Vi does the same thing but she doesn't get nerfed into oblivion. This just doesn't make any sense at all, different champions are different and Camille happens to be an S-Tier toplaner while Vi is an A-Tier jungler (soloQ only tho). Also, it's very possible for one diver to be OP while the other isn't. I really don't get what's so strange about this concept. Well I've never even said that, but you were so stuck up with the number of dashes that you got it wrong. But really, this stuff just doesn't matter, you could just bring up the same arguments if Camille's Q did double the damage it does right now. And I guess even you would accept that this would be slightly OP. Point being that it isn't just about the kit, it's about the numbers. And Camille's numbers are too high which results in this insane winrate in soloQ and competetive. And now PLEASE adress the fact that her winrates are incredibly high and stop theorycrafting some scenarios in a boards post. That just doesn't make sense. http://imgur.com/MYmsLiz You were wrong about the insults, about me being a Lee main and about me downvoting you. Just accusing people to see what sticks is not very polite.
Alright I give up, you have impressive selective reading skills sir, have a good day.
: > [{quoted}](name=InsaneSamurai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5OT85b0n,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-03-23T11:33:13.724+0000) > > I think they need to really take another look at the whole skill cap balancing thing. Just because he's not as simple as some champions does not mean he should be able to always beat them as long as he doesn't screw up, and way more often than not that's what an enemy Lee feels like. He's a roaming problem that it's not even worth trying to deal with because the vast majority of the time he's just going to waste everyone's time on a pointless chase as he hops walls all day. So you feel like the only less shitty option out of the bunch is to just let him make your junglers life hell and camp whatever lanes he wants, and that's not fun to deal with at all. https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=INSANESAMURAI Lol.
Rank shaming huh? Working on another ban before you even get back to level 30 I see :P To humor you I guess, I'm in bronze. Most of my wins _and_ losses have nothing to do with me or anything I did in the game. Almost every game down here is decided by which team has more people who refuse to work together. Skill doesn't control that, matchmaking does.
: No, they are not really odd - they start "low" at 45%, go up to 56% at 10 games and then rise to 60% at 30 games where they stagnate. champion.gg tries to give us data for 150+ Camille games but that just doesn't make sense as there are only few Camille players with that many games so data is unreliable at that point. She is straightforward OP. Similiar yes, but still superior. But yes, those champions are very strong in soloQ no doubt - despite being underplayed. Some of them fall off at Dia+, Camille get's even stronger. And only Camille is a top tier pick in competetive aswell. > This is a flat out lie. Camille will lose a 1v1 badly to Kleg, Trundle, Olaf, Darius, Fiora, Irelia, etc.. Her strength is that she has insane engage and lock down potential which means certain doom for squishies in a team fight. She doesn't lose "badly" against them. I'd say most of them are certainly debatable (Kled, Olaf, Darius, Irelia) others can certainly not come even close to diving her (Trundle, also highly ult dependent, she can easily bait it) and if Fiora touches her under turret late she can punish her very well. As a matter of fact her lategame 1v1 is still super strong - look at what Odo said: Odoamne comments that ‘Camille is a ticking time-bomb, by late game Camille will be so tanky that she will just win side-lane and her contribution in teamfights will be more significant than the Tank. He said winning sidelane in the lategame is one of Camille's strengths so what about that? Did he lie aswell or is he just wrong? Explain. So do you agree that Camille is an S-Tier toplaner who still needs severe nerfs? I don't want to make this about how to nerf her, it's just a fact that she needs nerfs.
You've never seen a Camille ult an Olaf/Darius/etc(or someone near them) and get eaten? Or are you just basing all of this on that one sentence quote from Odoamne? Winning sidelane in the late game is also something that many other champs excel at, and there are champs who are better at that as well. Basing a matchup on if someone hits her under the turret is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? They ought to know shes one of the champs that can defend turrets very well, so assuming they're going to dive her(or accidentally get aggro) is a little much. Most of those champs listed do not have that hard of a time fighting Camille by themselves unless she's already got a nice lead on them, and even then they can still outplay her. I think along this process you're missing the entire point. I'm not saying Camille is a garbage champion, I'm saying if she _still_ needs nerfs, then so does Lee(along with a good chunk of other champions who excel at something).
: Someone complaining about Camille nerfs *when she's still out of line* .......... Down voted on that principle alone.
So let's nerf her to the point where she can _only_ top lane, and even then only when she counters the enemy?
: You were practically ignoring Camille only so that you'd have the circlejerk as you can say anything as long as it's against Lee and that is the real problem. > If this guy thinks a single target based diver teamfights better than a teamfight based CC tank, then yes, he is wrong. She gets in and kills a target. Vi does the same thing but she doesn't get nerfed into oblivion. "this guy" is a top tier professional toplaner so I'd rather trust him than someone who says that Camille is no better than Vi just because both are singletarget focused. > How can the amount of credit I give her change the fact that she has one mobility skill while Lee has two AND a disengage if things go bad? Sure there are going to be times where she contributes more to a teamfight than a tank does. That can happen to any champ. If your team is being an actual team, any of the heavy CC teamfight tanks will contribute more, and often enough they will stop her entirely. She can get CCed through her assassination attempt just like anyone else and die accomplishing absolutely nothing. She can't dash after she dashes in and ults, so she's basically a sitting duck. Moreso since the enemy team can rather safely assume she's going to follow her ult target. Balance is about numbers and not the amount of dashes - but Camille still has two dash abilities(forgot about her ult? oops) with one of them having 2 dashes. Camille is able to knock the entire enemy team back when she ults her target and makes it so that they can't even flash away - unlike Those poor victims of Lee. Also, if Lee ults a squieshy through someone else he can't even finish them as his Q will miss. Camille can just point and click her enemy to death while they are unable to do anything. Her 20% max HP shield, W healing and untargetability kind of help her survive too - but yeah, Lee's 280 HP shield is nearly as good. Again, look at her winrate and tell me that this is fine. > don't make your hatred of Camille any more credible, they just make you seem more like a Lee player who doesn't want to deal with a champ that counters part of your kit occasionally. I don't hate her, I just don't deny that she is S-Tier atm. But take with making claims that can be checked, I don't play Lee look at my op.gg. > Maybe attempt a discussion instead of getting all aggro, being hugely disrespecful, and rage-downvoting every post in the entire that isn't agreeing with you. Believe it or not, insulting people doesn't cause or prevent nerfs. Neither did I downvote a single post in this thread nor did I insult anyone.
Never said she's no better than Vi, I was listing divers that do the same thing. Isolate one target and practically guarantee their death unless some serious peel is done. Camille is absolutely not the only champion who is good at this, it's a diver thing and sometimes an assassin thing too. I'm not sure what Camille you've been watching, but you can't exactly escape with her ult unless there's some really specific lucky setup going on. You use it when you go in, and its dash is nowhere near enough to go past the front line into the squishies without using the E first. So yes, she has to pick one. Can you flash out of a Malz/Syndra/Warwick/Morde/Skarner/etc ult? Oh, better nerf those champs too, right? God forbid someone lands an ult and it has it's effect :P Her ult itself does no damage. If she could nail it and then someone flashes out, her high CD ult was now completely wasted for the impressive effect of maybe one free auto and/or fraction of a second of CC. I didn't say I knew you played Lee, I was saying your overly aggressive responses made you _seem_ like a Lee who doesn't want Camille to be viable. I'll take your word for it on the downvotes, but it's rather suspicious that between a couple of our posts literally every post in the thread that wasn't agreeing with you got downvoted.
: That would make sense if it were just tied to the loot system but it's also tied to champion mastery so it has to be difficult. What really needs to change is the drop rate of keys and chests, because even if you do get an S you still aren't guaranteed a key/chest.
Yeah, on that last part I was referring to the loot requirement, not the S rank. Sorry for the confusion.
: Neither did I. I said that dedicated split pushers can 1v1 him while you said: > Also you know, Beats nearly everyone 1v1 and able to defend turrets against the strongest splitpushers while also outscaling even tanks.... And now stop derailing this discussion, Lee Sin as a topic is done for me, but nice try. I've given you stats that clearly indicate that Camille is absolutely super OP in soloQ (top 5 stats for all champions, not only toplaners) and given you a statement of a pro toplaner who says that she is S tier in teamfighting and splitpushing. "has to pick one" nah you don't give her enough credit. What do you say about her being able to teamfight better than tanks? Do you want to tell me that Odoamne is wrong? Do you want to tell me that her teamfight is stronger in organized play than in soloQ? Because that's BS as dive champions (especially the type that has to fully commit to a fight) tend to be much stronger in soloQ than in competetive. Again, stop dedicating 10 words on the topic while wasting the rest on Lee Sin. Lee is not the topic and the circlejerk won't get you upvotes. You defend an S-Tier OP and you should stop ASAP.
Hmm, you realize you're doing exactly what you're accusing me of? If you read the topic, there are two points here being made as a comparison. You're accusing me of being entirely focused on Lee, when you're sitting there doing just that on Camille. You're accusing me of derailing the discussion because I don't ignore half the topic and agree with whoever it is you're quoting? If this guy thinks a single target based diver teamfights better than a teamfight based CC tank, then yes, he is wrong. She gets in and kills a target. Vi does the same thing but she doesn't get nerfed into oblivion. Lee does the same thing with a 60 sec cd ult which is useful in more situations than hers, and the same doesn't apply to him. I don't give her enough credit? How can the amount of credit I give her change the fact that she has one mobility skill while Lee has two AND a disengage if things go bad? Sure there are going to be times where she contributes more to a teamfight than a tank does. That can happen to any champ. If your team is being an actual team, any of the heavy CC teamfight tanks will contribute more, and often enough they will stop her entirely. She can get CCed through her assassination attempt just like anyone else and die accomplishing absolutely nothing. She can't dash after she dashes in and ults, so she's basically a sitting duck. Moreso since the enemy team can rather safely assume she's going to follow her ult target. Coming in to a thread where the title is comparing Lee Sin to Camille, and asking me to stop comparing them doesn't make sense. You can throw all the veiled insults and random accusations you want in there, but they don't make your hatred of Camille any more credible, they just make you seem more like a Lee player who doesn't want to deal with a champ that counters _part_ of your kit occasionally. Maybe attempt a discussion instead of getting all aggro, being hugely disrespecful, and rage-downvoting every post in the entire that isn't agreeing with you. Believe it or not, insulting people doesn't cause or prevent nerfs.
: > [{quoted}](name=InsaneSamurai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5OT85b0n,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-03-23T11:13:12.386+0000) > > Sure, but when other champs do this, they 'wait and see what happens when people get used to them more'. With her they just nerfed practically her entire kit, then did it again one patch later. From what I can tell, she doesn't even have a positive win rate anymore and they're hitting her again(or at least planning to). > > Nerfing her to the point where she's only viable when laning against someone who she can constantly kill is not healthy, and it also removes her from being able to be used even remotely decently in the jungle. Probably because her kit is really powerful and her ultimate does not really have a good healthy counterplay. It means you have to stand there in her ult and get abused by her over power stats
Does Lee's ultimate have healthy counterplay? Also, her ult is basically a giant weird root. Sure it lasts a long time for CC(till they nerf it), but it only blocks one champion moving, and even then not entirely. It doesn't stop them attacking, it doesn't stop them from being able to dodge skillshots, and it doesn't reduce or prevent their damage at all. Yes it's strong, but it's a single target assassination based ult. Plenty of champs have them and they have similar effects. Hell, some just kill you outright in much less time than it takes for her to chase them around the circle or follow them to the edge and sit there autoing them several times. I think people are getting too upset at "wtf i can't flash out" before realizing you can't flash out of a slew of ults once they've connected. I almost feel like once Riot realized her ult ruins Lee's trolley gameplay(ohmygod something Lee can't wall jump away from!) they had to do something about it. Course if he has his ult, he's perfectly fine, cause Lee has an answer to just about everything, even a move that counters his mobility.
: Yeah, it's in the 40s on leaguegraphs aswell, but that's because most Camille players have <10 games played and are therefore shit. Every site shows ~60% for more than 30 games and that's just broken. No Lee Sin get's clearly outscaled by tanks (no need for them to be fed lul) and he cannot stand his own against any dedicated splitpusher. But yea, go ahead and try to 1v1 split against Riven, Fiora, Jax, Jayce, Tryn, Camille, Trundle, Darius, Garen, Irelia, Kled with Lee. Yes Lee is kind of a generalist and the boards don't like him so it was a smart move bringing him up, but he neither does excel in splitpushing (with Lee?! really) nor teamfighting. But he is a jungler so he doesn't have to - but it just shows how absurd the comparison is.
I never said Lee was a dedicated split pusher, not sure where that idea came from. You mentioned defending turrets *against* split pushers, which he can do just fine. Sure certain champs like Darius or Garen can be a problem for him under the right conditions, as can a very few set of champs with reliable enough CC that he doesn't dodge it while he's flying around like a bouncy ball, but soaring past them to kill the more important target isn't really something he has trouble with. Neither is getting back out when he's done. Camille has to pick one, go in or go out.
: What if I told you that getting an S is supposed to be hard and that it's influenced by factors other than KDA.
While your point(s) are completely valid, since getting an S is required for the loot system, it really shouldn't be _that_ hard. Or maybe the requirement should be lower. Shouldn't take a completely stellar game to get a chest when getting one on a champ blocks them from getting more for an entire year.
: > [{quoted}](name=InsaneSamurai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5OT85b0n,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-03-23T11:13:12.386+0000) > > Sure, but when other champs do this, they &#x27;wait and see what happens when people get used to them more&#x27;. With her they just nerfed practically her entire kit, then did it again one patch later. From what I can tell, she doesn&#x27;t even have a positive win rate anymore and they&#x27;re hitting her again(or at least planning to). http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/camille Look at this and tell me that she isn't absolutely S tier this patch. Sure most Camille players just picked her up as she was perm banned and now is open occasionally (that's dumb btw, ban her) but once they have only 10 games on her they average a 56% winrate which is beyond insane. 30 games with her and the average is a 60% winrate - which is incredibly OP. Stop defending a clearly broken S-tier champion. > Nerfing her to the point where she&#x27;s only viable when laning against someone who she can constantly kill is not healthy, and it also removes her from being able to be used even remotely decently in the jungle. She has one of the strongest lategames of all toplaners, she beats nearly everyone 1v1, is able to defend turrets against the strongest splitpushers while also outscaling even tanks in terms of teamfighting. Sounds OP right? Inb4 Gregor is BSing and exaggerating - sure, let's take a look what Odoamne has to say: > Odoamne comments that ‘Camille is a ticking time-bomb, by late game Camille will be so tanky that she will just win side-lane and her contribution in teamfights will be more significant than the Tank. http://eu.lolesports.com/en/articles/how-to-improve-at-top-lane She does not have to snowball her lane at all, all she has to do is survive it. And she still has the arguable strongest follow-up on ganks of all toplaners.
I don't know how you can trust a stat site to be 100% accurate when they all list different stats, but ok. Last two I looked at had her win rate in the 40s, but since they all say different things, I included 'from what I can tell'. Also you know, Beats nearly everyone 1v1 and able to defend turrets against the strongest splitpushers while also outscaling even tanks.... that sounds veeeeeery much like Lee sin to me, and he's not getting gutted. Sure he can't outscale a tank that somehow gets way more fed than him(neither can she), but how often is that actually a problem?
: inb4 Lee mains say "But he's a high-skill character" He's really, really not. He's complex, but that doesn't make him a high-skill character. What happens if you fuck up and engage wrong? You just E or ward jump out. But fuck up, say, a Bard ult or Taliyah wall? Boom. Game over. Lee is overloaded, overbearing, annoying, and he makes bad players think they're good. Which is why I'm really not excited about the upcoming Lee Sin skin that literally makes Lee players think they're God (imo that skin proves blatant favoritism towards his flashy, 'lul outplayed', self-satisfactory player base).
I think they need to really take another look at the whole skill cap balancing thing. Just because he's not as simple as some champions does not mean he should be able to always beat them as long as he doesn't screw up, and way more often than not that's what an enemy Lee feels like. He's a roaming problem that it's not even worth trying to deal with because the vast majority of the time he's just going to waste everyone's time on a pointless chase as he hops walls all day. So you feel like the only less shitty option out of the bunch is to just let him make your junglers life hell and camp whatever lanes he wants, and that's not fun to deal with at all.
: > [{quoted}](name=InsaneSamurai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5OT85b0n,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-03-23T11:13:12.386+0000) > > Sure, but when other champs do this, they &#x27;wait and see what happens when people get used to them more&#x27;. With her they just nerfed practically her entire kit, then did it again one patch later. From what I can tell, she doesn&#x27;t even have a positive win rate anymore and they&#x27;re hitting her again(or at least planning to). > > Nerfing her to the point where she&#x27;s only viable when laning against someone who she can constantly kill is not healthy, and it also removes her from being able to be used even remotely decently in the jungle. It's the Irelia treatment, really.
Oh god.. it is! I really hope she doesn't get stuck in that state, but odds are you're right and she will :(
: Because she was so overbearing and strong on release she warranted her 8 nerfs or w/e she got in her first couple weeks. She was a god in top lane.
Sure, but when other champs do this, they 'wait and see what happens when people get used to them more'. With her they just nerfed practically her entire kit, then did it again one patch later. From what I can tell, she doesn't even have a positive win rate anymore and they're hitting her again(or at least planning to). Nerfing her to the point where she's only viable when laning against someone who she can constantly kill is not healthy, and it also removes her from being able to be used even remotely decently in the jungle.
Rioter Comments
: You do have say in the matter though. You can choose to position behind your tank, you can cc him, you can dodge Q, you can {{summoner:4}} , you can buy {{item:3102}} , you can {{item:3340}} /{{item:2055}} to know where he is. I honestly think he's just best countered by smart league of legends and communication/vision.
These are options, but they all are in regards to desperately trying not to die to him. As far as actually stopping him and shutting him down, apart from Lee making tons of mistakes, there isn't much to be done. You are either so fed you can cc and instantly kill him(in which case just about nobody is going to be an issue), or he's doing what he came to do and flying over a wall when he's done.
: * if you can't dodge lux skillshots 20 mins+ blabla That's the reason people hate lux as well. It doesn't matter, once she has lost chapter you can dodge 30 times, that one time she hits her Q she 100-0 you.
This is a problem with many champs, and I also don't understand the logic in it. It is never fun to get 100-0ed with no possible reaction because you got hit by one random skillshot. Like you said, all those dodges mean absolutely nothing if the one random hit becomes instant death. It's infinitely more illogical on a champion like Lux, because at least with things like hooks from the support, someone has to be there to kill you while you sit through all the CC, she just does it on her own in one second from complete safety.
Divewing (OCE)
: I don't feel outplayed most the time when I die to a Lee Sin
Unfortunately it seems like Riot likes Lee and his flashyness too much to ever give him low enough damage to make up for his insane mobility, or to lower his mobility enough to make up for his ridiculous damage scaling. He's been like this for years, and at worst he only ever gets tiny love tap nerfs to inconsequential parts of his kit. Him and Jayce have kits that get far too much use out of a single AD item, and usually they don't even need to complete one to be able to delete just about anyone they run into. At least if you catch Jayce in a bad spot, he's probably dead. Lee will just fly over a wall in 2 seconds(and another one a couple seconds later if need be, then if you somehow manage to catch him AGAIN.... lets hope he doesn't have his ult or he's gone once more.) and waste everyone's time.
: that may be the case that tanks cant survive that long, but it is defenitly not lethalitys fault. Lethality gets countered pretty hard by armor.
Maybe it's not lethality, but it still feels nearly worthless to build armor against the champions who build it.
Meddler (NA)
: I generally write these the night before posting, and then give them a quick double check before posting first thing in the morning or just write them in the morning before my meetings for the day start. Lunch was good thanks, with a chicken salad with a side dish of spicy beef on noodles. Was a combination of lunch and work talk with Riot Axes, talking about mid-season changes to crit ADC itemization (testing fairly well so far, so I'm hopeful we'll be able to talk about some details with a few weeks).
Speaking of crit, do you guys still think it's ok for lanes to sometimes be decided by luck entirely? I mean if an enemy comes back to lane with 10% crit and rolls it 4 times in a trade, they basically just gambled and won a jackpot of an automatic won fight. They get lucky twice in a row like that, the lane is over and how much farm you get is entirely up to them now. There is literally no skill involved at all in someone getting more crits than the percentages would usually provide, and there is no actual counterplay apart from the very narrow purchasing of Randuins. Has a different system ever been tested? Crits are a nice idea, but leaving it all up to random can cause some serious issues, especially when it's nearly impossible to judge how much damage a champ will do because of crit items.
Meddler (NA)
: Amumu changes should be hitting PBE tomorrow. They're mainly useability and appreciability tweaks around his passive, plus a brief slow on E cast. We don't currently have new icons for him, that's a good call out though. We'll see if it's possible to get a new set done at the same time as we make new ones for some of the tanks in the tank update.
Wouldn't a slow on his E turn him into yet another champ that is impossible for an immobile champ to get away from? There are already plenty of these and it's not fun to play against at all. Most of them have so much stickyness and/or mobility that if you don't have an escape move not even flash can save you unless you do it over a wall or into a turret. It's not like Amumu was easy to escape as it was, especially since so many of them buy Rylais.
: I'm glad you're nerfing Camille's lane pressure, but I think her W still needs to heal off of large monsters, because Jungle Camille is pretty decent right now.
Jungle Camille really needs something IMO. When she was OP in general, her lame clears were alright because she was a hero at ganking. Now that shes been bludgeoned into oblivion by the nerf hammer, I feel like jungling with her is a complete waste because she falls behind even when she never dies, unless practically all her ganks succeed. I don't think any jungler should have to RELY on many repeated successful ganks just to keep in line with everyone else's gold and xp. Just about any decent jungler in that situation will end up snowballing, but Camille lately with an amazing start just ends up being not behind.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 20
Quick question. Do you guys realize how insanely underwhelming buying armor feels nowadays with the slew of powerful lethality items being so popular? Ever since the assassin update, more often that not I feel like I wasted my gold purchasing an armor item when I needed to survive for more than 1.5 seconds. If I'm playing a tanky champ, it doesn't seem to really matter until i buy my second or third armor item, and by then it's too late more often that not. On squishies, since it only increases your lifespan by about 25% of nearly nothing, it seems like a complete trap and a waste of gold. Edit: Whoever's downvoting me, buy armor next time you fight a Jayce, Yasuo, GP, Talon, etc. etc. and see if you think it felt like it was worth it, or if you just dumped gold down the drain.
Karhtel (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=InsaneSamurai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z5ObOdMw,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-03-14T05:32:24.018+0000) > > The most important thing in this elo is which team has more feeders, trolls, griefers, or people who spend more time arguing with each other than playing the game. No matter how good you think you are, you can&#x27;t force a win when nobody on your team will work together against a team that is. > > Sure every once and a while a normal game happens down here where individual play sometimes matters, but it&#x27;s not very common, and even when it does the result of the game is often due to one person refusing to work with their team. > > One persons skill level will never make a griefer stop griefing, it will never make someone stop charging their fed lane opponent(s) and dying, and it will never make that guy who thinks he can 1v5 stop thinking he can 1v5 and try to group for a change. Those things are what costs games down here, not good plays. But a plat player or probably gold in bronze and they will climb out with a 75 percent win rate. Bronze is a joke. I mean im only in silver right now got placed in bronze 3 this season and climbed out in like 25 games. It's easy lol. Dont blame others on your inability to climb
No matter how good you are you can't force people to not throw.
: Because he has to go full damage and spend two abilities to do it. Meanwhile, you can simply walk out of it. Or, if you're good, and don't want to run, you can do exactly as I did, and _time your autos to destroy the barrel just as it hits one health_. It's the exact same concept as last-hitting minions. Come on, if I, the bronzie here, can do it, so can you. I can do more as just about anybody else with the same number of abilities, and without a chance for you to fuck it up. But I don't see you whining about {{champion:99}} or {{champion:25}} in this...
I'm not on a ranged champ very often outside bot lane because people hate picking tanks, so i'm rarely going to be in position to melee auto the specific GP barrel that needs to go in the middle of a teamfight. The window for it is so small that I doubt many besides the absolute top level players consistently diffuse them during 5v5s. Good GP players will drop an extra barrel right when you auto the first one and chain that off the one you ran past. He has even more options late game when he's able to sit on 5 charges of it. For Lux to blow up a cluster she has to use everything she has apart from the shield. For GP he has to use a couple charges of one skill and his Q(if he even has to Q for it).
: Hey, sorry for the confusion. It looks like we forgot to include a crucial sentence -- once chromas have gone on IP sale once, they'll return every other IP sale. So the ones you missed in the previous sale will return next time. :-) We're currently working on updating this article to reflect that. Sorry about that!
What is so wrong with letting us by palette swaps with IP? Twice a year wasn't rare enough so now it's gotta be once a year...
Karhtel (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=InsaneSamurai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Z5ObOdMw,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-13T14:26:39.712+0000) > > If you think your average teammate will perform with even a fraction of what you see on your high elo streams, I think you&#x27;re expecting a bit much. > > I&#x27;m bronze because i&#x27;m not lucky, just like everyone in bronze. Nothing about skill matters down here, it&#x27;s a complete crap shoot and always will be. Lol. No. You're in bronze because you're bronze. Luck has nothing to do with it
The most important thing in this elo is which team has more feeders, trolls, griefers, or people who spend more time arguing with each other than playing the game. No matter how good you think you are, you can't force a win when nobody on your team will work together against a team that is. Sure every once and a while a normal game happens down here where individual play sometimes matters, but it's not very common, and even when it does the result of the game is often due to one person refusing to work with their team. One persons skill level will never make a griefer stop griefing, it will never make someone stop charging their fed lane opponent(s) and dying, and it will never make that guy who thinks he can 1v5 stop thinking he can 1v5 and try to group for a change. Those things are what costs games down here, not good plays.
Moooose3 (NA)
: It's cute, because I've done a bunch of bronze 5/4/3 to diamond runs and I get out of there in like 20 games tops.
Bronze to diamond in 20 games tops, so you're so good at the game you defy the system even. Impressive :P
Moooose3 (NA)
: No, you're bronze because you suck at the game.
It's cute that you think individual skill matters in this elo
Shadòw (EUW)
: high risk high reward. that's not unhealthy but GPs playstyle.
It is unhealthy when your top laner can't do anything to stop him and he ends up winning every teamfight because he knows how to chain barrels. Someone ganks him? Either it's a double kill for GP cause of barrels, or he just eats oranges and wastes everyones time. Unless he's straight up countered, you can't stop him from farming.
Moooose3 (NA)
: Or if you played a ranged champ. Or if you shoved him under turret. Or let him shove you under turret. Or did anything besides let lane freeze in the middle of the lane and stare as he sets up a barrel chain.
Sometimes you have to pick first, ya know :P And sometimes(read: nearly every time) the team so desperately needs a tank that you have to just eat a bad laning phase and play one anyway. Also, this is interesting: "Or did anything besides let lane freeze in the middle of the lane and stare as he sets up a barrel chain." Didn't you spend several posts belittling anyone who ever walks near a barrel? :P Do you propose we jedi mind trick him into detonating them randomly?
Moooose3 (NA)
: I'm perfectly aware they have different strengths. Again, you're in bronze. They're easy to dodge, but they're also easy to hit if you're good at him. So basically you need to understand that if he barrel chains you you lose a fight if you take it with him. It's really not that hard. For the record, I don't think I've played a single game of gangplank in my life, but I have laned and played against it multiple times. His barrels are basically his entire kit, and the only reason he is played because of the armor pen and extra damage they give. That's it. Saying "omg nerf the barrels" is absolutely ridiculous. Watch a high elo stream when they play against gangplank. He is very counterable, you just have to understand the matchup, and you obviously don't.
If you think your average teammate will perform with even a fraction of what you see on your high elo streams, I think you're expecting a bit much. I'm bronze because i'm not lucky, just like everyone in bronze. Nothing about skill matters down here, it's a complete crap shoot and always will be.
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InsaneSamurai

Level 30 (NA)
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