: {{champion:141}} > {{champion:516}} > {{champion:142}} > {{champion:145}} > {{champion:555}} > {{champion:518}} > {{champion:517}} Its a 50/50
> [{quoted}](name=Salvor Hardın,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U7p2JB3t,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-23T17:26:44.168+0000) > > {{champion:141}} > {{champion:516}} > {{champion:142}} > {{champion:145}} > {{champion:555}} > {{champion:518}} > {{champion:517}} > > Its a 50/50 I think They mean in terms of Enchanters, not releases
Jackom1 (EUW)
: Morde or New champ?
I’m not a super huge fan of playing Enchanters (I think that’s the next one?), and do enjoy Juggernauts, so currently looking forward toward Morde. Especially with the icon that went up on PBE.
: > [{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1WEFjTtH,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-04-19T22:56:52.401+0000) > > They are doing to him what they’ve been wanting to do with most tanks these days. Hitting what makes him strong in proplay and trying to make him better in solo. His low winrate is because of nerfs primarily in proplay, where he still holds just above 50% winrate and a pick/ban of 30% worldwide. In spite of his solo performance, he is entirely picked in proplay for how strong his W is for allies (example, he was the bane of TSM in the finals recently, giving Doublelift insane safety for any misstep) and the cross map power of his ultimate for himself and an ally. > > The thing is, Riot knows the power of these two skills is what makes him so strong in proplay, and so they are reducing that to buff him elsewhere, places he can get more value from in solo play. This attempted shift makes sense, although some values are a bit too extreme. Thankfully, it’s early in the patch cycle. > > His W even in solo is incredibly strong, a low CD Zhonya’s for an ally to save them from dumb mistakes. Handy, yes, but far too reliable for what it offers and the CD it has. Except they literally nerfed him (further) into irrelevancy instead of giving him anything in exchange for gutting the two abilities that are the core of his gameplay. He honestly just needs a rework
> [{quoted}](name=Minimac2000,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1WEFjTtH,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-04-21T02:14:56.685+0000) > > Except they literally nerfed him (further) into irrelevancy instead of giving him anything in exchange for gutting the two abilities that are the core of his gameplay. He honestly just needs a rework Except they won’t be leaving him that way if he gets nerfed further by this. If this is the same that other times Riot tried this, it’s to be a power shift to balance him better. But when you have a champion that is showing just above 50% winrate and a 30% pick/ban in proplay, while having an insanely low win rate and fairly low playrate in solo, there’s issue. His W is insanely strong as it is, that cannot be denied, as it offers minimal counterplay for his team besides catching the target without Tahm, because he moves so fast. It’s an absolutely abysmal experience to olay against. And it’s one of the things that makes him such a strong support in proplay. The ability to completely negate an assassin or a simple misstep from the carry with a single lower CD point-and-click, while retaining the ability to be incredibly tanky as well, is really strong. That cannot be denied, and it had a good chunk of his power. His ult is far stronger in proplay as they can always make really effective use of cross-map plays, But they are not just nerfing. W, yeah it’s a heavy nerf, and I’ve said elsewhere some numbers are likely too extreme, but it seems they want the focus more on enemy devour, and the enemy should have more room to play around his ally saving ability. A 9.6 second CD on such a strong skill isn’t much with how quickly Tahm can slip away with an ally. Grounding is to prevent Tahm flashing with an ally, saving the summoner, and bring it in line with his enemy devour. They also gave the enemy devour some flat damage, shifting it away from damaging more health heavy foes and allowing it to be better used on lower health champs. His ultimate is a shift. It’s early range was hit, but ranks 2 and 3 are better. His E got buffed, or at least had a nerf reverted, which improves his survivability. His Q, while having a slightly higher CD early, has a lower rank 4&5 CD, and has a stronger and longer slow. It’s not all nerfs, it’s Riot trying to draw strength out of, mainly, his W and distributing it elsewhere to try and make him better. Maybe see how they approach him after this, or how it plays out. On paper is one thing, in game is something else.
: I'm very annoyed by this reasoning. What was once the question "does it feel good" must now be paired with "is it abusable in a competitive environment?" See also Shen.
> [{quoted}](name=LordMordeMain,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1WEFjTtH,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-04-20T17:37:20.160+0000) > > I'm very annoyed by this reasoning. What was once the question "does it feel good" must now be paired with "is it abusable in a competitive environment?" See also Shen. This has been a question for some time. It’s also part of Ryze’s many changes, as his kit works even better on lower ping and his current ult is insanely effective in proplay. However, this isn’t just Tahm. Riot is doing this to most tanks, whether players agree or not. Ornn lost his Shield and some CC effectiveness and got some more damage, Sejuani got her damage buffed at the cost of tankiness. Pretty much any champ, typically tanks, RyzeX Kalista, and Azir, that is disproportionately strong in pro but insanely weak is considered for similar changes.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hammermancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1WEFjTtH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-19T17:36:18.425+0000) > > the thing is, kench is like old yorick > > he is completely unfun to deal with when meta, he ignores poke champs and just eats melees > > he honestly needs a rework > > also his entire theme has nothing to do with his kit, and he's a fucking catfish but he plays like a frog? > > he has nothing about 'making deals' only eating people He hasn't been meta since season 6? At least for anyone below challenger and he's not really even worth it there And yeah, I agree. If he's this much of a dumpster fire while at 40% win rate he just needs to be deleted and this is coming from a player who enjoyed playing kench for at least a whole season
> [{quoted}](name=Minimac2000,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1WEFjTtH,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-19T17:41:59.936+0000) > > He hasn't been meta since season 6? At least for anyone below challenger and he's not really even worth it there > > And yeah, I agree. If he's this much of a dumpster fire while at 40% win rate he just needs to be deleted and this is coming from a player who enjoyed playing kench for at least a whole season He’s meta in proplay, which, if I’m correct, is a big factor in this adjustment alongside his insanely low solo winrate.
: @Riot I already dodge when a tahm kench is locked in on my team
They are doing to him what they’ve been wanting to do with most tanks these days. Hitting what makes him strong in proplay and trying to make him better in solo. His low winrate is because of nerfs primarily in proplay, where he still holds just above 50% winrate and a pick/ban of 30% worldwide. In spite of his solo performance, he is entirely picked in proplay for how strong his W is for allies (example, he was the bane of TSM in the finals recently, giving Doublelift insane safety for any misstep) and the cross map power of his ultimate for himself and an ally. The thing is, Riot knows the power of these two skills is what makes him so strong in proplay, and so they are reducing that to buff him elsewhere, places he can get more value from in solo play. This attempted shift makes sense, although some values are a bit too extreme. Thankfully, it’s early in the patch cycle. His W even in solo is incredibly strong, a low CD Zhonya’s for an ally to save them from dumb mistakes. Handy, yes, but far too reliable for what it offers and the CD it has.
: 100% agree. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was originally billed as a solo laner in the first place. I only started seeing him played support very often after the pros popularized it.
> [{quoted}](name=KnightsKemplar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=zyqNiUo0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-19T16:12:00.981+0000) > > 100% agree. > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he was originally billed as a solo laner in the first place. I only started seeing him played support very often after the pros popularized it. He had sections for both in his reveal, though support was listed first. He was intended to do both, I think, but top lane was really strong with his health-based damage, if I recall correctly: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/page/champion-reveal/tahm-kench-river-king
wolvius (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GWz9j79m,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-19T12:49:33.629+0000) > > I wouldn’t say severely. > > It’s a tradeoff. Grasp is for lane and sustaining, but isn’t really as good once you get out of lane phase, aftershock is more for the resistances and for in teamfights. However, on Ornn, Aftershock in trades can’t be discounted too much, as it’s easy for him to proc and the resistances can help make up for the loss of his shield. A thing I've found from playing him on ARAM is it's nearly too easy to proc, someone gets displaced by your pillar and you have no keystone for 40 seconds. Does seem like a better option with the new scaling and the increased stats from his masterworks.
> [{quoted}](name=wolvius,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GWz9j79m,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-19T13:47:00.136+0000) > > A thing I've found from playing him on ARAM is it's nearly too easy to proc, someone gets displaced by your pillar and you have no keystone for 40 seconds. Does seem like a better option with the new scaling and the increased stats from his masterworks. Yeah. That’s a catch. I’ll sometimes take advantage of it to dive in when in lane, especially with E’s scaling, so I get some use. Teamfight phase I’m generally more conservative with Qs until we engage or counter-engage. My bigger complaint stays the same as when it was Courage of the Colossus: they should implement a radius to how far it can proc. If you happen to hit a max range Ornn ult, it’s gonna proc with likely no one nearby. Yeah, I’m looking forward to the scaling bonus, since it was designed originally for tanks and taken from an old tank keystone, and now it fits us really well again to get a resist spike.
Aarron (NA)
: taking aftershock instead of grasp means you're severely hampering your ability to lane and trade
> [{quoted}](name=Aarron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GWz9j79m,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-19T12:44:34.453+0000) > > taking aftershock instead of grasp means you're severely hampering your ability to lane and trade I wouldn’t say severely. It’s a tradeoff. Grasp is for lane and sustaining, but isn’t really as good once you get out of lane phase, aftershock is more for the resistances and for in teamfights. However, on Ornn, Aftershock in trades can’t be discounted too much, as it’s easy for him to proc and the resistances can help make up for the loss of his shield.
: holy shit, this is a massive buff for tanks. just to put this into perspective. a midgame {{champion:516}} around lvl 13 with just {{item:3111}} {{item:3373}} {{item:3379}} and conditioning gains about a 130 armor and 145 mr on aftershock instead of about 100. full build at lvl 18, it would be around 200 armor and 180 mr instead of 120 on both. can vary up or down, depending if he buys {{item:3193}} and how many enemies are nearby in that case. either way, its a pretty clear buff for tanks like him.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GWz9j79m,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-04-18T23:23:52.435+0000) > > holy shit, this is a massive buff for tanks. > > just to put this into perspective. a midgame {{champion:516}} around lvl 13 with just {{item:3111}} {{item:3373}} {{item:3379}} and conditioning gains about a 130 armor and 145 mr on aftershock instead of about 100. > > full build at lvl 18, it would be around 200 armor and 180 mr instead of 120 on both. can vary up or down, depending if he buys {{item:3193}} and how many enemies are nearby in that case. > > either way, its a pretty clear buff for tanks like him. As an Ornn fan....I love this. It’s not too much extra, all things considered, but it’s nice, especially since I already like to run it on him. This is probably for the best. Dive heavy champs can still make use of it and get a nice defense spike, and tanks can get a but more value of it than they do with the flat. It’s not a super huge increase for tanks until later in the game with multiple resist items.
: You do realize that it did this at first, and it was busted on tanks ({{champion:33}}) who could gain huge bonus stats ({{champion:33}}) to stack multiplicatively with it ({{champion:33}})
> [{quoted}](name=DorkunedAuras,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GWz9j79m,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-04-19T09:00:08.520+0000) > > You do realize that it did this at first, and it was busted on tanks ({{champion:33}}) who could gain huge bonus stats ({{champion:33}}) to stack multiplicatively with it ({{champion:33}}) Funnily enough, when I looked back on why it got changed, Rammus was never mentioned, but rather Alistar and another support for their resists and damage, but that was the damage part. The bonus resists was to make it more appealing to divers. Rammus and other scaling champs were never mentioned, at least in the patch notes..which is where I would expect that.
: Jesus Christ, just remove Tahm's ally Devour at this point.
It’s a really heavy nerf, possibly too far. However, changes or nerfs to his ally Devour are needed. It is an incredibly strong defensive tool with..really little counterplay to it because of how fast it is. It’s pretty much focus Tahm, which just lets the carry hit you, or catch the carry without Tahm, which would be rare. It’s telling when he’s so weak in solo, but is one of the most consistent and best supports in proplay. That’s likely where this is really focused, doing to him what they’ve been wanting to do to other tanks: shift power out of pro and into solo. With this direction, he won’t be as much of a “get out of jail free” card for his carry. It’s at least better than the idea they tossed around of a damage threshold to make him spit out his ally. At least you can still make them untargetable for the full duration.
: A mobile Zhonyas for anyone on your team is just busted by design. It's mildly annoying in regular play (which is fine), but in pro play it's basically the best ability in the game. It's pretty hard to think of an ability that is more powerful than TK's W for pro play. They can nerf anything they want, but as long as his W works the way it does he will always be a crazy good pick in pro play. Unfortunate that he's in the group of champs that are godly in pro play, but garbage in solo Q.
> [{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Pv0TOw1,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2019-04-19T04:58:08.018+0000) > > A mobile Zhonyas for anyone on your team is just busted by design. It's mildly annoying in regular play (which is fine), but in pro play it's basically the best ability in the game. It's pretty hard to think of an ability that is more powerful than TK's W for pro play. They can nerf anything they want, but as long as his W works the way it does he will always be a crazy good pick in pro play. Unfortunate that he's in the group of champs that are godly in pro play, but garbage in solo Q. Heck, he was effectively TSM’s kryptonite against TL in games 3 and 4 of the finals this split because they could never really get to Doublelift.
: > [{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5y4HdRWw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-18T14:58:29.955+0000) > > Hm, a Rammus that built little health, a negatron Cloak, and didn’t W got hit hard by a horribly fed Zoe with a Luden’s, Rabadon’s, Lich, Void Staff, and Sorc shoes. Even as a preferred tank player, this..doesn’t really surprise me much. Sounds like you expected him to complete 4 items when he didn't even have half the kill participation zoe had; based on his build yi kept invading him.
> [{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5y4HdRWw,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-18T17:17:25.390+0000) > > Sounds like you expected him to complete 4 items when he didn't even have half the kill participation zoe had; based on his build yi kept invading him. I mean, Thornmail is an important buy for Rammus, and Cinderhulk is the default tank enchantment, and Ninja tabi isn’t a bad buy. But yes, Rammus was horribly behind in farm. His team participation ratio is pretty good, all things considered. I’ve been in his shoes though, and this just adds weight to the phrase “A tank even is a tank behind.” In this instance, a tank behind is very behind and isn’t very useful as a tank. Sidebar, this right here is also why I despise pro supports taking Redemption after finishing Relic. It hurts to watch a tank, especially a Galio, get bursted by a LeBlanc.
: Tank btw
Hm, a Rammus that built little health, a negatron Cloak, and didn’t W got hit hard by a horribly fed Zoe with a Luden’s, Rabadon’s, Lich, Void Staff, and Sorc shoes. Even as a preferred tank player, this..doesn’t really surprise me much.
: The saddest part is that your support was somehow so uninvolved that they had lower healing than a WW who only did 13k damage, and the enemy's **_Pantheon_** almost matched her. Considering the damage to turrets, sounds like the name was spending too much time pretending Nami is a splitpusher and not enough helping the team.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wkspJ6Lm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-18T03:44:36.938+0000) > > The saddest part is that your support was somehow so uninvolved that they had lower healing than a WW who only did 13k damage, and the enemy's **_Pantheon_** almost matched her. > > Considering the damage to turrets, sounds like the name was spending too much time pretending Nami is a splitpusher and not enough helping the team. Just adding...here’s more match details if needed. Right before the Morgana remake match. https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Illabethe
: After getting towerdoven at lvl 6 by chain vest ornn from full health
Man, I love this game of “I’m gonna complain about a situation in my recent match but never show you guys any data from it.” Absolutely love it. From full health..by an Ornn. No. I don’t buy that. The moment he touches you, he’s taking aggro. His W slows him, his E has a slight delay, and his ult makes him stop to channel, can be dodged, if close enough to try and ensure both hits, he would be taking turret shots and be open to CC to prevent the recast. Yes, his damage is mostly %health based, no, at level 6 he won’t 100-0 you with that, because those values aren’t as high at that point, especially if he wasn’t maxxing W. Did he have an ally with him? Only way I see that as possible. There’s a question of what champ you played, which..we can’t see because you have no match history on this account. Knowing you, my best guess is Jax. Q can help avoid ult. If I’m right, E can be timed to prevent the auto proc. Ornn suffers if you can keep trading with him. His regen and base stats are pretty low because of his passive. Fight him, avoid the W, since he’s locked into a direction when using it. As for the rest...I won’t bother. You hate tanks and want them out of the game. You’ve said there’s no place for them, so arguing against you when it comes to tank balancing is a waste of time. Just next time you want to pull a match as an example, maybe actually show the match, or the moment in the match, cause right now, you just sound crazy.
Hotarµ (NA)
: 1 - I'm not Iron, I'm unranked. Not a huge difference but if you're going to try and insult someone for their rank, atleast try to get it right, champ. 2 - If you bothered to read my other comment, work takes up a large portion of my time and the sporadic schedule I have means I can (usually) only play a few games very late at night. I'd rather those not be games where I rage at a competitive system that I don't care so much about. Good logic though, ignoring an actual complaint about the game to instead focus on someone's rank (that doesn't impact their credibility at all)
I know that feel. Do what you enjoy and helps you relax...within reason of course :P
: Tank metas weren’t lame because tanks were tanky, it was lame because tanks were beating everything because they did entirely too much damage. I’d have no problem with a beefier meta where beefier champions do less damage but focus on controlling fights through utility and durability.
> beefier meta where beefier champions do less damage but focus on controlling fights through utility and durability. Yes. 1000x yes.
Krabohod (NA)
: Can we have Ornn's update item quotes back?
Hm, i never noticed, but I barely notice a lot of VO lines, makes me sad. Idk if I messed up a volume feature of something. However, those lines are even more fitting now, since Ornn actually has to make them right there.
Moody P (NA)
: what bothers me about his passive is that riot made a whole point about removing stat based auras and bonuses from supports and nonsupports because of invisible power Then they release ornn who gains more stats from items (passively), and then also gives permanent, global stats to allies, and all he has to do is not lose the game before he unlocks it. Bit hypocritical to me and Ornn passive goes about the idea of this in a much ubhealthier way than a simple aura IMO
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AmrJoEbc,comment-id=00010002000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-13T11:09:43.284+0000) > > what bothers me about his passive is that riot made a whole point about removing stat based auras and bonuses from supports and nonsupports because of invisible power > > Then they release ornn who gains more stats from items (passively), and then also gives permanent, global stats to allies, and all he has to do is not lose the game before he unlocks it. Bit hypocritical to me and Ornn passive goes about the idea of this in a much ubhealthier way than a simple aura IMO That..is a really good point. Hadn’t thought of it too much that way. I did remember them saying they wanted less passive power or something like that, and found it odd they reversed trend on Ornn. Hm.
Moody P (NA)
: passive will never be fair or healthy and it should be scrapped R being safe basically fool proof initiation is also more problem than W right now, but his damage is quite stupid. things like ornn sej ult being safe and reliable are bad design for how they can close a game used correctly
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AmrJoEbc,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2019-04-13T03:08:47.257+0000) > > passive will never be fair or healthy and it should be scrapped That might be subject to debate. It was fairly ok early on, but it helped that he was a lot less reliable and his base stats weren’t where they are now. > R being safe basically fool proof initiation is also more problem than W right now, but his damage is quite stupid. things like ornn sej ult being safe and reliable are bad design for how they can close a game used correctly I agree with his damage being over the top. I can see your point with his ult. Was it better back when it had an actual cast time on the headbutt, makig it harder to land and potentially easier to mess him up?
Moody P (NA)
: Because he has indirect lane sustain through his items passive (and also gets free bonus resistances on all purchases) Hes fine where he is. Well, no, he's toxic and should be reworked, but he's "fine" as in not grossly over or ubdertuned
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AmrJoEbc,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-12T14:42:27.261+0000) > > Because he has indirect lane sustain through his items passive (and also gets free bonus resistances on all purchases) > > Hes fine where he is. Well, no, he's toxic and should be reworked, but he's "fine" as in not grossly over or ubdertuned Probably not his entire kit, but at least his W at this point..the source of most of his troubles.
: Yep it really shows how much ornn you play and tanks in general those ornn buffs are really big yes they don't help in the early game but the only champions who actually are a big problem to him are {{champion:24}} and {{champion:114}} and range tops are coming back and ornn does pretty well vs them.
> [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ELp1PURa,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-12T11:50:40.999+0000) > > Yep it really shows how much ornn you play and tanks in general those ornn buffs are really big yes they don't help in the early game but the only champions who actually are a big problem to him are {{champion:24}} and {{champion:114}} and range tops are coming back and ornn does pretty well vs them. Yeah, that was my thought as well. Buffing an Ornn special item’s resists and health does increase his survivability without making other tanks generally insane, and the synergy between the resists on those items, his passive, and his E can go a long way.
: The current PBE is about the most horrible display of "balancing the game" we've yet seen
> And let's not forget Ornn being absolute garbage and d*** near a liability to his team - let's give him a buff! To his passive items on the ones most often built on him! No buff to his actual kit where he has literally no survivability whatsoever anymore, no, just some buffs to his level 14 items! (as if he'll be hitting 14 anytime soon in his new role as support) I mean, in a sense, that is a buff to his survivability, since he does build 2/3 of those items and then his passive ups their armor/MR even more while also increasing the damage from his E’s ratios give. So technically, they did buff his survivability. They did also increase E’s base damage a tad, as well as the knock-up duration, which will improve what he offers to the team. A good Ornn isn’t as much of a liability or garbage as you say. He’s strong in the right hands, he’d just still be better off with the shield instead of Unstoppable.
neroid1999 (EUNE)
: Update 1 : Followed all of your great tips and i got so much better thanks to you all ,but it still feels quite hopeless to carry a game with ornn ,or atleast to be of a major power in the team , per example a game i played had camille and yasuo ,so you can already expect that not only did i die in 0.3 seconds from camille but yasuo also kept his w only for my r ,so it was rather pointless ,i shifted my playstyle ofc to go with q+e and W to avoid yasuos 3rd q or camilles r ,but still not much difference. Tl;dr : thanks for the tips ,ill work with them to get even better.
> [{quoted}](name=neroid1999,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YPGlZxUi,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-04-12T11:24:45.249+0000) > > Update 1 : > Followed all of your great tips and i got so much better thanks to you all ,but it still feels quite hopeless to carry a game with ornn ,or atleast to be of a major power in the team , per example a game i played had camille and yasuo ,so you can already expect that not only did i die in 0.3 seconds from camille but yasuo also kept his w only for my r ,so it was rather pointless ,i shifted my playstyle ofc to go with q+e and W to avoid yasuos 3rd q or camilles r ,but still not much difference. Tl;dr : thanks for the tips ,ill work with them to get even better. Yeah, Yasuo and Braum really screw over Ornn’s ult and engage. Usually for those, you end up saving ult for follow-up if they already cast their walls for something else. Maybe a Righteous Glory into E to get in quick for a knockup and use the Ornn Horn either after a wall goes down or if they aren’t in a position to stop it.
: Stay near a wall If there is no wall - make one
> [{quoted}](name=Hovering Hentai,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YPGlZxUi,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-04-12T11:27:50.284+0000) > > Stay near a wall > > If there is no wall - make one Terrain making champs can be your best friends.
Moody P (NA)
: Because damage buffs are the best soloQ buffs a tank could get; tankiness buffs really don't affect performance as much as youd like it to below Diamond.
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6JzMXuH0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-12T10:28:47.324+0000) > > Because damage buffs are the best soloQ buffs a tank could get; tankiness buffs really don't affect performance as much as youd like it to below Diamond. Pretty much this. Riot’s been wanting to try and make tanks better in solo without going out of control in proplay. This apparently is the main way to do. Unfortunately, it further blurs the line between tanks and fighters. I greatly dislike that that’s how they want to rebalance tanks, and disagree that it’ll make things better. But I’m just one voice. I’ll keep saying it’s a bad idea, but I likely won’t get anywhere.
Vøidle (NA)
: How does Ornn's upgrade passive decide which item to upgrade?
It has a weird internal priority system as to which gets upgraded. Riot coded it somehow to pick the item, but never revealed to us how it’s picked. I once did it for a Veigar and he got Luden’s Pulse over Deathcrown. It’s either purchase order, item slot, or some other criteria Riot has never revealed. Maybe worth someone tweeting at Squad5
neroid1999 (EUNE)
: How to Ornn?
~~Will see what I can suggest here soon once I finish washing the dishes. Commenting so I can find the thread again in case I lose it.~~ I can only speak really to Ornn top. So, Ornn is actually a fairly strong tank in terms of what he brings to teamfights and his current laning. The right item buys can help sustain you greatly. Late game, his masterwork items can be really powerful on both you and your allies. Ok, so browsing back through your matches, since that’s usually the best place to start. First point I’ll mention, I don’t recommend both Randuin’s and Thornmail. They both have Cold Steel, and as far as armor/health value, a Sunfire/FOrgefire Cape would be better over Randuin’s. Only downside is losing the crit damage reduction. But getting two Masterworks can make a big difference, especially with the coming buffs to Forgefire Cape, Infernal Mask, and Frozen Fist. For the most part, builds are fairly sound. Probably once you had Abyssal against Kayle, I might’ve considered a Warden’s Mail for the Attack Speed slow, plus she does still deal some physical with her autos. A lot of tank Ornn, though, is getting used to how his kit feels. It is a bit more clunky, but landing the skills feels worth it. Getting used to the Q-E combo takes some practice, as well as using E so it hits terrain. I recommend continuing to practice it though. Personal preference, Maxing E over W, in my opinion, feels pretty good, it lowers the CD of your core CC ability, it scales with your resists, and it’s base damage is pretty good for quick waveclear. A W-E for me as I get more levels in E will often clear the casters and take the melees low if not kill them until later in the game. Just be wary of pushing too hard and overextending. Runes, results may vary, but I based mine off a top Ornn player, running Aftershock, Demolish, choose between Conditioning/Second Wind/Bone Plating depending on match-up, and Overgrowth primary, then secondary is Minion Dematerializer and Cosmic Insight. Stat shards I often run Adaptive Force, then resists depending on my match up. Beyond that, a lot comes to practice and getting a feel for the kit, as His timings take some getting used to. But when used to him, he can fare pretty well.
: > [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HE5QZwEr,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-04-11T05:24:27.531+0000) > > You also equate bruisers TO tanks despite them not being defensive champions in the slightest. Incorrect. I have no problems with tanks. I don't mind tanks being played. Some of my most played champions are Sejuani, Naut, Zac and Blitzcrank. What I do have a problem with is the double standard given to tanks vs. damage dealers that is currently going on. I also have no problem with protection. Notice how I didn't bring up Taric despite him having arguably the strongest team-wide defensive tool in the game. That's because he has an immensely low mana pool and has a cost for the durability he can bring...much less so than other characters. Also, fighters/bruisers ARE defensive champions. They're not tanks, as you said, but they do dip into heavy defensive itemization because they have to stay alive. So right away, your main point that I hate tanks is moot. > Your item complaints in shields - **those are all fighter or bruiser items**. Expensive. Outside an actual tanks effective reach. > Your support item complaints - there are 0 items with item CDR. I dont know where you pulled that out of... but you should put it away. ENCHANTER support itemization is some of the best sustain support items in the game, and theyre cheap by need; supports dont make a lot of gold. While you are right that there aren't any items, there are runes that lower item CDR. Most supports take these because of how many actives they have. Also: "These are all fighter/bruiser items" is again incorrect. Phantom Dancer is not a tank/brusier item. Hexdrinker/Maw sees play on a variety of champions. Seraphs is not a tank/bruiser item. There is a shield item/defensive item for almost every flavor of champion in the game. If tank itemization was also as bad as you say it is, you'd see supportive tanks seeing less play. Yet you don't, because those champions have powerful innate kits _on top of_ having great items to build. You're also incorrect in supports "not making as much" as other classes. The monetary gap between a Season 9 support and a Season 3 support is like comparing a mansion to an outhouse. > Ill finish off with your champion complaints here... Remember this because it is VERY true and you seem to have forgotten it: _A tank even is a tank behind_. > > A tank should not be a tank if behind. Is an ADC an ADC if they fall behind? **No**. They're a detriment. They're not carrying the game. They cannot do their job. Again, a double standard: If an assassin falls behind he shouldn't be able to do anything because he missed his window. If a tank falls behind he deserves to be able to still do his job because tanks need special status. Yes, Braum is the ideal tank. He's also the most problematic one because of how ideal he is. Yes, Tahm is a walking zhonyas. That's _not_ what a tank does. And Rakan is absolutely an initiation tank. He has a playpattern very similar to other offensive champions: Dive in, snare/CC as much as possible. It's why Rakan best runes are defensive ones. This is the problem with your entire argument: You assume Braum/Kench/etc. doing these things is fine and "what an ideal tank should be" despite the fact that they're the reason why defensive tanking has fallen away in favor of offensive tanking: You're not going to do anything better than Braum/Kench without grossly pushing the boundary of the supportive tanking tree. > It seems as though youre in the camp of "i should be able to deal all the damage" and "this game needs less defenses so i can do more damage". You, sir, are in the wrong camp. Period. Again, wrong. It's like you completely glossed over my points and only saw "I HATE TANKS RAW RAW KILL ALL TANKS". My point is not "the game needs less defense", my point is that "Defensive creep is often overlooked and a huge part of the problem when it comes to damage". Again, you're one of those people I pointed out in my conclusion: Nerfing damage will not fix defensive creep, which will cause damage creep to rise again, which in turn creates the cycle we're currently in now. If you want to see real changes to the game, you need to dis-spell the double standard that tanks are not part of the problem, because they absolutely are. Supports as well but then you get the hybrid of tank supports which are routinely massive problems. (Alistar is still a pick ban champ despite retaining his kit since season 1).
> A tank even is a tank behind. > A tank should not be a tank if behind. I think you may have misinterpreted the wording. They aren’t saying a tank is still a tank if behind. This is actually true, as it currently feels terrible if you can’t get your defensive items and so you can’t properly do your job (I’ve been flamed on Amumu because I got set behind in jungle and couldn’t get my items, and my ally said “And here I was told a tank can still do their job even if set behind). The first line is saying that if a tank is going even, then they’ll be considered behind, much like the casters say with Jayce if be goes even in lane when you pick him to bully. Essentially, as it is, a tank needs to get ahead early in order to properly tank.
: Shut up. So many champs are unstoppable when fed. Even fed Aatrox was easy to shut down. ANY hard CC ends him. He had no way to mitigate damage...anything that stops him from autoing or slows his autos ruins him. As a main, I found him to be a JOKE to lane against, to be honest with you.
> [{quoted}](name=DarkinPrime,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kfRBgP5j,comment-id=0000000300010002,timestamp=2019-04-11T18:14:19.476+0000) > > Shut up. So many champs are unstoppable when fed. Even fed Aatrox was easy to shut down. ANY hard CC ends him. He had no way to mitigate damage...anything that stops him from autoing or slows his autos ruins him. As a main, I found him to be a JOKE to lane against, to be honest with you. First off, public forum. You can’t really tell me to stop here unless you’re a mod. Second off, *as a main* you found him a joke to lane against. *As a main*. Which means you knew him better than most people would. Most mains can figure out how to beat their own champs. Third, yes, most champs when fed are incredibly difficult to impossible to stop. That wasn’t what I said. I said he was feast for famine. He either got fed and was incredibly tough to stop, or he wasn’t and was useless. There’s a difference there. Feast or famine champs aren’t fun for opponents when fed, and often not as fun to play as when they aren’t fed, because you usually play them to get that fed status. Fourth, beyond Grevious Wounds, a champ that drain tanks is not easy to take down. CC has the same effect on every champ. Old Aatrox suffered from the same problem people have with most straight AA champs when fed. Are they in range to auto you? You lose. Yi, Tryn, old Aatrox, Jax, even many marksmen, that’s an issue people have with them. Marksmen are at least squishy and usually build little survivability.
Chronabis (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kfRBgP5j,comment-id=00000003000100010000,timestamp=2019-04-11T16:20:07.614+0000) > > I never mentioned the health of the new one. But the old one was nowhere near this amazing pinnacle of balance. > > The comment I replied to said He was kept sub-50% for a reason, and on a very low play percentage, only getting close to 50% with the mini-rework. Those would be entirely mains, and even then his winrate was terrible. That should speak to the state of his kit and the fact that he barely got changes, both buffs and nerfs, can be used to say Riot was perfectly fine with him being a not good pick with an incredibly small playerbase until they could figure out what to do with him. > > As Ralanr pointed out, similar with Poppy where she was just kept abysmal until she could be fixed because of the nature of her kit. Same with Yorick. He wasn’t allowed to be good because of the nature of his kit. > > Is the new one perfect? No, definitely not right now, but they at least believe they can still do something with most of it. And that’s the important part to Riot. If they believe they can fix it as it is, they will. If not, they’ll likely set him up with the Ryze rework pattern. But if they deemed the old kit to be too risky to do *anything* with except leave him in a not so good spot, then it won’t be coming back. Sorry, that’s how the cookie crumbles. There’s a reason the old Yorick, Poppy, and Sion kits haven’t returned after all this time. They likely perceive old Aatrox the same way. They have been trying non stop for 8 months to fix him. Right now it is blatantly obvious he is way worse for balance, considering bot og and mini rework oldtrox sat at a stable 50% winrate for years.
> [{quoted}](name=Chronabis,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kfRBgP5j,comment-id=000000030001000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T16:53:33.322+0000) > > They have been trying non stop for 8 months to fix him. Right now it is blatantly obvious he is way worse for balance, considering bot og and mini rework oldtrox sat at a stable 50% winrate for years. Which is still better than gutting and leaving him to rot. However, most of his changes revolved around his incredibly high presence in proplay, but with his kit currently, hitting proplay hits solo harder, since his kit still had value in coordinated play due to his high Q damage, the knockups, and the reliability of his ultimate. And it’s the same in reverse, where if they hard buff him right now, they buff him in pro just as much if not more. That doesn’t mean it’s a failure or unhealthy per se, but it means there’s some adjusting that needs done. Now, they are pulling reliability and power from his ult and giving back his 2 charge E, as well as an additional charge when ulting. So we’ll see how he plays out. His old kit though, while it sat stable, was part of it couldn’t be adjusted without sending him hard one way or the other. His playrate was so low, that only mains really played him, and you’d expect mains to carry a bit more than 50%. He was a fairly simple champion, he was feast or famine in game, to where he would drain tank like crazy between his W, Bloodthirster, Blade of the Ruined King, and/or Ravenous Hydra. His kit was feast or famine, and that was an issue.
man of tin (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=FSRER,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kfRBgP5j,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2019-04-11T11:51:07.161+0000) > > Right now, aatrox is competing with garen for the least impactful champion in the game. That's only because he was nerfed to the ground so he'd be bearable in pro play while they figured out how to make him stronger in soloq but at the same time tone him down in professional play (Changes which RiotJag has already posted on his twitter and they're coming in patch 9.9).
> [{quoted}](name=man of tin,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kfRBgP5j,comment-id=000d00000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T14:23:10.605+0000) > > That's only because he was nerfed to the ground so he'd be bearable in pro play while they figured out how to make him stronger in soloq but at the same time tone him down in professional play (Changes which RiotJag has already posted on his twitter and they're coming in patch 9.9). Those are some...interesting and odd changes. i can see why they'd focus on the adjusting reliability out of the ultimate. Hopefully the dashes back will help a lot.
Chronabis (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Iota Theta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kfRBgP5j,comment-id=000000030001,timestamp=2019-04-11T13:21:09.523+0000) > > Isolating winrate gives a very poor picture. He had a low winrate, incredibly low playrate, and his kit was incredibly feast or famine. Aatrox was considered a champ that either couldn’t get his items and was absolutely useless, or he could and could 1v9, with little room in-between. You can’t just cite winrate and say “oh, he was fine”. That statement is nowhere near the truth and only being thrown around by people who never played him. Consider also how the new one is a lot worse for game health, because he has been constantly nerfed for 8 months and has had kit mechanics taken out.
> [{quoted}](name=Chronabis,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kfRBgP5j,comment-id=0000000300010001,timestamp=2019-04-11T16:02:04.334+0000) > > That statement is nowhere near the truth and only being thrown around by people who never played him. Consider also how the new one is a lot worse for game health, because he has been constantly nerfed for 8 months and has had kit mechanics taken out. I never mentioned the health of the new one. But the old one was nowhere near this amazing pinnacle of balance. The comment I replied to said He was kept sub-50% for a reason, and on a very low play percentage, only getting close to 50% with the mini-rework. Those would be entirely mains, and even then his winrate was terrible. That should speak to the state of his kit and the fact that he barely got changes, both buffs and nerfs, can be used to say Riot was perfectly fine with him being a not good pick with an incredibly small playerbase until they could figure out what to do with him. As Ralanr pointed out, similar with Poppy where she was just kept abysmal until she could be fixed because of the nature of her kit. Same with Yorick. He wasn’t allowed to be good because of the nature of his kit. Is the new one perfect? No, definitely not right now, but they at least believe they can still do something with most of it. And that’s the important part to Riot. If they believe they can fix it as it is, they will. If not, they’ll likely set him up with the Ryze rework pattern. But if they deemed the old kit to be too risky to do *anything* with except leave him in a not so good spot, then it won’t be coming back. Sorry, that’s how the cookie crumbles. There’s a reason the old Yorick, Poppy, and Sion kits haven’t returned after all this time. They likely perceive old Aatrox the same way.
Sęraph (NA)
: Anyone else getting sick of Maokai's Bridge ARAM?
That’s just RNG for you. I had multiple matches vs Kog’maw the first couple days of Butcher’s Bridge. I think I’ve seen him maybe once, if at all since the patch.
: > because his kit was deemed unhealthy Literally had an almost permanently sub-50% winrate for all of his existence until mere weeks before his rework when he graduated to a near perfect 50%. If this is deemed unhealthy, then about 100 champions of the whole roster or more should be erased from the game in a similar manner if any of this makes sense
> [{quoted}](name=PaffWasTaken,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kfRBgP5j,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2019-04-10T23:42:35.454+0000) > > Literally had an almost permanently sub-50% winrate for all of his existence until mere weeks before his rework when he graduated to a near perfect 50%. If this is deemed unhealthy, then about 100 champions of the whole roster or more should be erased from the game in a similar manner if any of this makes sense Isolating winrate gives a very poor picture. He had a low winrate, incredibly low playrate, and his kit was incredibly feast or famine. Aatrox was considered a champ that either couldn’t get his items and was absolutely useless, or he could and could 1v9, with little room in-between. You can’t just cite winrate and say “oh, he was fine”.
: > [{quoted}](name=Laufplanke,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PREIEwJt,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T20:02:27.632+0000) > > He changed, you know that? to be honest i got really sick of him just complaining about all the champions that i like and the playstyle that i like and acting like there's only room for tanks and rightclick based fighters in top lane so all other low CD fighters needed to be removed from the game
> [{quoted}](name=Hammermancer,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PREIEwJt,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T20:14:08.989+0000) > > to be honest i got really sick of him just complaining about all the champions that i like and the playstyle that i like and acting like there's only room for tanks and rightclick based fighters in top lane so all other low CD fighters needed to be removed from the game Doesn’t he hate tanks in the top lane as well? How they’re apparently so much better than fighters like Jax and how cheap their items are?
Lewanor (NA)
: Talon's Nonsense Design and Why he can be Considered to be Reworked After Current Tier 1 gets VGU'd
So, reading through this, and especially your intro, you’re looking for more of a VU for him, an update to solely visuals and model, with little to no gameplay updates. That’s a reasonable request, and one i could support for Talon.
: I must have accidentally slept through it.
> [{quoted}](name=BeatzBoyFTW,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=OOKNcTM3,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-04-05T17:21:22.713+0000) > > I must have accidentally slept through it. Must’ve been a good nap with that root duration.
: According to op.gg, in patch 9.6 mid Morgana had a 52.9% winrate while having a 3.19% pickrate. While its a little out of line, I wouldn't say it necessitated these quick trigger pull nerfs to midlane Morgana. Relatively low pickrate indicates these are mostly skilled Morgana mid players, and additionally I think people just forgot how to play against Morg mid. ASol had a 53.8% winrate last patch, but I don't think anyone is going to call for his nerfs due to his measly 0.8% pickrate. The Morgana nerfs are even stranger because Zed, a midlane matchup that Morg struggles against, has a much higher winrate and much higher pickrate. So it wasn't even like she was dominating midlane, she had a clear, very strong counter. And I'm not just saying this because op.gg says she struggles against Zed, this is from years of experience duoing with a Morg mid main. That said, so far the nerfs don't seem too awful. Her csing wasn't completely gimped, which I think is the main concern here. I just hope they don't go overboard; she's currently at a nice 51% winrate, let's leave it at that.
> [{quoted}](name=AbiwonKenabi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WEE6vIr2,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-04-05T15:02:56.722+0000) > > According to op.gg, in patch 9.6 mid Morgana had a 52.9% winrate while having a 3.19% pickrate. While its a little out of line, I wouldn't say it necessitated these quick trigger pull nerfs to midlane Morgana. Relatively low pickrate indicates these are mostly skilled Morgana mid players, and additionally I think people just forgot how to play against Morg mid. ASol had a 53.8% winrate last patch, but I don't think anyone is going to call for his nerfs due to his measly 0.8% pickrate. > > The Morgana nerfs are even stranger because Zed, a midlane matchup that Morg struggles against, has a much higher winrate and much higher pickrate. So it wasn't even like she was dominating midlane, she had a clear, very strong counter. And I'm not just saying this because op.gg says she struggles against Zed, this is from years of experience duoing with a Morg mid main. > > That said, so far the nerfs don't seem too awful. Her csing wasn't completely gimped, which I think is the main concern here. I just hope they don't go overboard; she's currently at a nice 51% winrate, let's leave it at that. Wasn’t op.gg the one that only reviews a small subset of the playerbase? I think only one server? However, Riot Repertoir had addressed numbers previously on his twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/RiotRepertoir/status/1110960974041743361 The first column in that is Morgana Mid, packing a winrate above 54%. Lolalytics I believe had her midlane listed as Master tier.
asud (EUNE)
: Did you know that she is one of the most mobile adcs in the game? Doesnt mobility counter mages? Yes it does She also has stealth to anullate her short range, reposition and 3shot you. She has no real counterplay. Thats her issue. Like when Yasuo comes mid. He has no counterplay mid, no resource, outdamages, outpushes and outsustains everyone. In top its different he takes skill, mid is free lane for him every time. Same with ranged tops. No ranged champion should be allowed to play top EVER. Its not fair to win lane by picking range advantage. It should never be a thing. Minions should be changed so they dont give the XP to unmatching class of champion until 9 minutes into the game. So what im saying is that if you pick Vayne top you should get 25% gold and 25% Xp until 9 minutes to kill the ranged top thing. No more Viktors, Cassios and other stuff top. Same with Sion mid or anything like that. Kill the strat. Same with mages and bruisers bot. 25%gold 25% Xp kill the strat So the champs will be balanced to belong to 1 or 2 lanes max Will be closer to 50% in their own lane because they woulnt have to consider other lanes for that particular champion. =more balance=less complaining= more fun
That...is an absolute terrible idea.
: > [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=31QtaJzJ,comment-id=0002000000000001000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-05T13:45:21.551+0000) > > Hitboxes lul meanwhile Irelia E is still 3x thicker than the actual indicator > > That's a riot fault not Illaoi While I do agree for that but the main problem is her hit box is invisible at times After getting Hit by E then leave the range then You get attacked by 2 or 3 tentacles in that time until her passive wears off The last Tentacle hit get invisible in a lot of times
> [{quoted}](name=Hikari Sakata,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=31QtaJzJ,comment-id=00020000000000010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-05T14:51:33.629+0000) > > While I do agree for that but the main problem is her hit box is invisible at times > After getting Hit by E then leave the range then You get attacked by 2 or 3 tentacles in that time until her passive wears off > The last Tentacle hit get invisible in a lot of times Easy way to stop that, dodge the first tentacle and then don’t kill it or move too far from it. It won’t hit again unless Illaoi somehow hits you, nor will another one spawn since it’d be be too close to the first one.
Done25 (NA)
: I'm honestly not looking forward to it tbh. Aftershock shouldn't just be for tanks. It should be for anyone who wants to initiate and not **immediately** get blown up by x5 rotations. They just needed to lower the initial values such that people like Liss don't get a free pass in lane.
> [{quoted}](name=Done25,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6JVfnJuB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-05T12:21:29.463+0000) > > I'm honestly not looking forward to it tbh. Aftershock shouldn't just be for tanks. It should be for anyone who wants to initiate and not **immediately** get blown up by x5 rotations. They just needed to lower the initial values such that people like Liss don't get a free pass in lane. Except Aftershock was designed originally for tanks and defense stackers, replacing old Courage of the Colossus. However, non-tanks that currently use it well will still use the defense boost well. They just won’t get up to 120 or 150 bonus resists. 70 is still a lot early on, as only two regular tank items have more armor than it ({{item:3110}} {{item:3075}}, special cases are {{item:3373}} {{item:3387}}).
: [Discussion]: Aftershock Changes
So...a mix of what it used to be and what it is now? Some buffed up scaling compared to originally, and a decent base stat value as well? It can work. We’ll see. The cap will help prevent situations with things like Malphite’s passive, Taric’s passive, Rammus’s passive and W, and Leona’s W.
: I made the mistake of not banning her due to her low pick rate... literally had to afk a game where i had 3 cs 6 minutes in because every time i tried to cs she would steal my soul and take 75% of my life, then just towerdive me and heal 3 tower shots like shes a mundo
> [{quoted}](name=Omega Insec,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=31QtaJzJ,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-05T04:46:25.534+0000) > > I made the mistake of not banning her due to her low pick rate... literally had to afk a game where i had 3 cs 6 minutes in because every time i tried to cs she would steal my soul and take 75% of my life, then just towerdive me and heal 3 tower shots like shes a mundo How is she taking 75% of your health unless you’re standing there and letting her hit both you and the spirit? Just walk out and take the slow if you can't fight her back. After dodging the first tentacle from that, stand there, don’t kill it right away, and you won’t spawn more. Or stand position around minions so she can’t E you as easily.
asud (EUNE)
: Yeah. Try to dodge of of the fastest skillshots, which has no prep animation with ping above 40 good luck with that. her E should cost 100 mana lvl 1 and rank up to 200 lvl 5 so you actually get rewarded for dodging it 3 times straight in lane
> [{quoted}](name=asud,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=31QtaJzJ,comment-id=0002000000020000,timestamp=2019-04-05T12:05:04.707+0000) > > Yeah. Try to dodge of of the fastest skillshots, which has no prep animation with ping above 40 good luck with that. > her E should cost 100 mana lvl 1 and rank up to 200 lvl 5 so you actually get rewarded for dodging it 3 times straight in lane It’s..not that fast, and can be blocked by minions. If you’re a champ that can fight her back, and are in a situation where you can, fight her, because dealing damage to her reduces the Spirit’s duration, making it less likely to slow you and get the extra tentacles. If either point is no, just leave, end it early, take the slow, dodge the first tentacle, then stand right next to it. If you don’t kill it and don’t move away, another one will not spawn, nor will it hit after the first unless Illaoi hits you.
asud (EUNE)
: He abuses jax and irelia yes. But so do many others. He is better than all of them anyway.
> [{quoted}](name=asud,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=31QtaJzJ,comment-id=000200000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-05T12:03:07.068+0000) > > He abuses jax and irelia yes. But so do many others. He is better than all of them anyway. Point being he plays champs that Illaoi would be better against, those that come into her area of power to fight or are melee for farming. Of course she is going to be more obnoxious to him.
Uniia (EUNE)
: Ornn is back to seeing pro play while performing horribly in soloQ.
Honestly, as a big Ornn enthusiast, my favorite champ to play as, I’d prefer they not keep going the route they were going with cutting his CC and buffing his damage. I’m of the mindset that making tanks more damage dealing like fighters will just blur the lines more. Tanks, by nature in online games, are team players. I personally see nothing wrong if fighters are better solo while tanks are better in coordinated. That’s really how it should be based on their natures. Those committed to playing tanks will learn to make them work in solo queue. In fact, way back when (pre %max health damage breath), Ornn mains who committed to learning how he plays as a tank could get to where they carried >50% winrates. The nature of tanking as a team oriented role should not be diminished, Even if it means having a tougher time solo, because that’s what they are. It’s similar to tanks being good in raids in PvE, but not so great when on their own. It’s how it should be. They do not need to become fighters that don’t build damage. My changes: > put his shield on E; > Change %max health damage on his W back to %current health, this reduces kill pressure just from W, and the damage was the big issue beforehand when Riot called it an “I win” button, not the shield; > reduce Brittle pops, have them focus more on the tenacity reduction over the damage.
: Well I think its like Zilian's ult, GA, Aatrox ult, ect. You don't really get the kill those abilities keep them alive. Maybe I'm wrong but that is how I understand it But I agree it would be really lame to pop that without realizing it. Especially sense everyone has it
> [{quoted}](name=SgtAwesomeness,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=7zNRq9A0,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-05T03:31:45.191+0000) > > Well I think its like Zilian's ult, GA, Aatrox ult, ect. You don't really get the kill those abilities keep them alive. Maybe I'm wrong but that is how I understand it > > But I agree it would be really lame to pop that without realizing it. Especially sense everyone has it The thing with Mariner’s Vengeance is they stay in a death state. It actually says “Death Defied” like Karthus’s passive, and the champ doesn’t revive and get killed again, but rather they “die”, go invulnerable for 4 seconds, then official die. Given that, if Cho’gath gets a stack for ulting Karthus, he should get one for this.
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Iota Theta

Level 59 (NA)
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