: If could please answer this because this actually a really important question. Won't the removal of sightstone bring back AP Damage Mages back into botlane and actually make them dominate because they will have an extra slot for their AP items rather than being forced into having a sightstone? I feel like this is actually a pretty big deal here.
Not necessarily - they already had the option to build Eye of the Watchers, which gives them the same slot efficiency they will have after this change. We'll be monitoring the relative power of damage supports.
: What about twisted treeline? Are the support items removed now?
Current plan is that the old version of the support items will remain on Twisted Treeline.
DaCurtis (OCE)
: Twin Shadows item will return then? :O In all seriousness though, I hope Riot somehow finds a way to bring back frost queens quest reward by having bonus movespeed on ability hit. Losing that will be a tragedy on how I play my game.
Yes, we'll be testing it out as part of the upcoming AP item pass. Not guaranteed it will be a part of that, but if not we will try to bring it back somewhere else. We'll also be looking for a way to bring back Talisman/Reverie. We will be monitoring tank supports to see if they need a way to defend an indivudual ally in addition to Knight's Vow.
: I appreciate the sentiment in that concept, however I think it might actually be detrimental to the current gameplay we're seeing. If I as a support can ignore sight and rush an item to boost myself or my adc, the impact will be MORE SNOWBALLING. Something the game needs like a hole in the head. Right now if I want to rush an item for quick power boost, then I have to ignore vision needs to some extent which leaves our lane more open to ganks. That to me feels like a fair trade for rushing power. The only real problem with the vision game right now is that no one participated expect support and jungle (usually). I support main, but when I go to other roles I find myself getting higher vision scores than most because I bother to spend a few seconds putting wards down. Everyone could and should do it, but many people don't because it's "not their job". That's the attitude we need to address. And maybe that means adding extra incentive to wards. It was brought up that if the whole map is warded then junglers will be at a disadvantage, but honestly so many people are running duskblade that I think it would be ok. And if too much vision becomes an issue one day (we can dream), then it opens more doors for other items that shut down vision. Ok now I've gotten too far ahead of myself. =p Tldr; I appreciate the sentiment but it's approaching a current non-issue, and has potential to backfire hard.
In theory, I agree with you - it would be cool to find an even tradeoff between rushing an item for personal power and getting the more distributed team contribution of Sightstone. However, in practice, we saw this summer that an item had to be meta-breakingly powerful in order to provide a realistic alternative to a Sightstone rush. As to the whole team providing vision - we agree that we'd like more teamwide participation in the vision game. This isn't trying to solve that whole problem, but we're happy to start chipping away with changes like this.
: I feel like this is the wrong way to go if your goal is to lighten the obligation of vision from support. From what you've described, the obligation of vision will remain with support, but simply change the path to get there and remove the bonus for doing so. Why not adjust some other non-support items to add vision abilities and encourage other positions to ward more often? Or reward anyone for planting wards in game (ie. +1 gold/10 seconds for every 2 wards you have up)? Adding the jungle vision item was a good idea but it's never used because the vision is not worth giving up the other options. Personally the only quest bonus that currently feels lacking is from talisman of ascension. And while I used to be opposed to ruby sightstone, running frost queens claim with it on a glacial augment build is a ton of fun (not to mention the only real way to use glacial augment successfully atm). I hope this ends up being like the grasp of the undying change and doesn't make it past pbe.
The goal is not necessarily to reduce Support’s influence in the vision game, but rather to lessen the economic impact required to do so.
: Are we just going to be losing the Active Item CDR passive from Ruby Sightstone with no plans of that coming back either? Having the ability to get crazy low levels of item CDs in combination with Ingenious Hunter was great and it'll be sad to see that go.
As of right now, there are no plans to bring back that passive. We've had some concerns around Active Item CDR stacking being too powerful, especially when it comes to Red Trinket and Zz'Rot Portal. That being said, we'd like Active Item CDR to be something that you can invest in, so we'll be looking at ways to add it in other places.
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