Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: You know what's funny? Nidalee, Lulu, and Lee are still seeing competitive play after their "nerfs" and "reworks" and Soraka is no where to be found. Not top, not mid, and not bot. Go figure.
While I haven't played Lulu, Lee's nerf and Nidalee's buff didn't do much to hurt them. Nidalee is even stronger with the reset-on-mark.
: Welcome (or even necessary) item changes going into S5
Really good post. While I enjoy new, balanced champions I think a large part of the game would be significantly more fun if there was item diversity.
: I feel you, but luckily that isn't really an every day occurrence. I understand that matches like these can be frustrating and feel like a waste of time, but you can also look at it from the standpoint that it is your opportunity to get a firsthand look at what you can be doing to play the game better. Higher skill level players can show you a lot when you're getting your face pummeled by them, so instead of being upset about it, try to take it as a learning experience.
It's happened to me about 5 times in the last 20.
: Soraka, the Mobile Healing Ward
They nerfed the shit out of her because a lot of people couldn't realize she had zero mobility in a solo-lane environment. While her Q was annoying in laning phase it also pushed the lane enabling her to get ganked without any appreciable escapes. Blame it on the riven mains who always build damage.
: While I do agree with you, on-hit effects do in fact go through blinds. The base autoattack should not land but all of the stacked damage should go through from what I understand. Are you saying that this is not the case? Want to make sure I understand.
Ask yourself: If the base auto attack doesn't land then how does anything augmenting the auto attack land? Nasus Q does bonus damage and bonus, last time i checked, means "something given or paid over and above what is due". If the dog is blinded he shouldn't land Q damage.
Rioter Comments
: do you even read ? not all meeles are supposed to win vs rangeds udyr is a fighter who has good numbers but pays for it with being kiteable while ashe is an adc that SPECIALIZES in kiting ppl who dont close the gaps i play vi and zed a lot, and i never complained about ranged champs kiting me, zed and vi are supposed to be good at closing gaps thats why i cant be kited, udyrs main weakness is that he can thats not ranged champions being op but couple of particular champions not being able to close that gap, whicxh is their personal weakness that is intended
Vi and Zed are exceptions to the rule. The majority of melee champions do not have their level of mobility.
: the problem is that you think that this game is about fighting 1v1 nerf riven cause 1v1 she can beat yasuo, oh wait she is his counter kiting is a good mechanic when you wont get burstend without a chance to respond and sustain back meeles who invest in tank items do it to not get busted by ranged champs **als you speak about ranged damage dealers, ever seen ashe winning a solo dues with zed talon lb, master yi or any assasin** **UNDERSTAND THE COUNTERS THEN SPEAK ABOUT THEM, RANGED DAMAGE DEALER COUNTERS MEELE TANK/ FIGHTER AND IT WAS ALWAYS LIKE THIS, MEELE ASSASIN COUNTERS RANGED DAMAGE DEALERS AND GETS WRECKED BY CC FROM MEELE FIGHTERS/TANKS usualy aided by damage of ranged guy, ASHE COUNTERS UDYZ,ZED COUNTERS ASHE,UDYR COUNTERS ZED and on and on and on**
The problem is: most melees cannot get into range of a ranged champ to deal damage, let alone burst damage.
: Maybe, but they're supposed to.. That's the whole point. A full build ADC is designed to do the most damage in the game, while a melee champ is supposed to be durable and protect them. Now, I'm not claiming to be amazing myself or know everything about this game but I think that considering how squishy ADC's are if they don't have kite and high damage they would NEVER be played. There would be no point.
The problem is that 1v1, Melee champs are not durable enough to get into range of an ADC to attack them even if both champs are full build. The current trend appears to be: make melee's tankier if they can't get into range. That leads to uninteresting gameplay since everyone's a rock. A more interesting situation comes out if ranged champions were more glass-cannon. They would have to decide whether to engage. They're currently not enough glass for the amount of cannon.
ploki122 (NA)
: You missed the point... Red buff, Frozen Mallet, Blade of the Ruined King, Mercurial Scimitar, Trinity Force, and Iceborn Gauntlet all are more efficient on melee characters. The items were designed to facilitate melee character's sticking power.
Redbuff slows 15% for ranged but 24% for melee's. Frozen Mallet slows for 30% and 40%. The difference is not enough to enable Udyr to win. It doesn't matter if Melee's get higher stats if they can't use them.
: If you get into Ashe's face there's no way she lives long enough to kite you, unless you're a tank in which case you aren't supposed to be soloing Ashe in the first place.
I'm going to disagree and suggest you play a bit more Udyr or ADC. Any full build ADC's going to seriously mess up a melee champ in 6-10 AA's.
ploki122 (NA)
: Wchich leads ot the second point ,if you land a single AA on her, she's dead, since your red buff is more potent than hers (is there an s there or is it her?).
There's a 6 second CD on bear stuns which only last for 1 second. Conservatively, a full build ADC will be able to get 8-10 AA's off in between stuns.
: With all the gap closers, flash, and counter cc items kiting only works on champions like Udyr, or Darius... And Udyr really shouldn't ever be kited unless the Udyr has no idea what he's doing or the Ashe is godly. If they didn't have free stats they would be completely useless with all the gap closers in the game now.
What's the cooldown difference on gap closing skills compared to Autoattacks? A full build Ashe can kite-to-death a full build Udyr, Riven, Shen, or basically any other melee. It's not just Ashe though. It's any ranged champion with a perma slow in the form of red buff/FM .
: Not even Ashe can kite udyr unless he has no TF and only one point in bear or something...
Yes, Ashe can kite Udyr even if he has swifties or mercs and maxed bear. What's more Ashe can chase Udyr and kill him before he can escape if they start on top of each other.
ploki122 (NA)
: Which is why you have the ability to buy items to mitigate that kiting. You can get a Talisman that will instantly buff your speed. You can get boots that reduces the density of slows, you can get a quicksilver sash that will removes crowd control... Of course they can get that all too, but a lot of kiting items are actually stronger on melee champions than on ranged ones. At that point it's all about you getting in one time. Flash helps for that, and so does fog of war.
Compare the cooldown of any of those items to the cooldown of an autoattack with red buff.
Rioter Comments
Sunfield (EUNE)
: I know, I had made one complain myself on beta forums before it went live. Reworks are a tough thing and all beta testers can do is to find out the most obvious issues. There's nothing like testing on a 40 mln player server. But the idea itself of the rework isnt bad and I actually have fun with current Sona. Its just that it reqiures a different playstyle, altering between being in the centre of the fight and being in the backline. People hate adapting
Due to aura size she has to be front line for the aura's to be effective. Unfortunately, she explodes if she's any where near a front line.
Sunfield (EUNE)
: Sona aka Rengar aka Karma
There were a lot of complaints on PBE *during* the rework. Very few of the complaints were addressed. To say the rework is not perfect is an exercise in hypobole.
: You've descended from a reasonable argument to one of name calling.
>You don't even know what counter play is Yes, I do.
Stacona (NA)
: You don't even know what counter play is- and this change can destroy his prey more effectively anyways so i don;t even know what you are ranting on about- remember his Q resets his attack timer so you can AA-Q-AA for a quick burst of damage- anyways, if you want to QQ every time someone suggests a balance change for a champion that is currently overpowered then just enjoy your champion only receiving nerfs and nothing else to compensate
You've descended from a reasonable argument to one of name calling.
Stacona (NA)
: but his own range got buffed so did his gap closer as well as more knock ups and more reliable knock ups, all of his utility aspects got buffed- his wall does exactly what it is suppose to be just the invincibility and fortify ability of it is nerfed- you wont feel a difference with 200 less range when playing as yasuo for his ult, when playing against yasuo there isnt difference besides the fact that you now at least can see yasuo before and after he ults and not just after--- these changes are to balance him with adding counter play, and not just to nerf him, because overall he will end up being better with these changed, just fixing his overpowered elements
He already has counterplay. >His shield: proc it with some small skill first. Akali Q for example or an AA (ranged to be salty) >His Q: Build armor or FH and increase the CD. >His W: It has a 26 / 24 / 22 / 20 / 18 CD. Either bait it out or use ranged skills when it's on CD. >His E: Don't stand near minions. >His R: Don't engage him when he has full Q stacks or Dodge his Q. Melee champs need to be able to destroy ranged champs when ranged champs are close.
Stacona (NA)
: yes they are, melee champions have been such a pain for riot to balance over the years- they have slowly been making melee to be better balanced now than what they used to be- but they are still much stronger than range champs- range champs have offense build advantage because they are ranged so they do scale better but even then you still need your own melee to protect you from the enemy melees because even with full tank items they can still 1v1 beat ranged champions if the melee and ranged are equal in gold and the range champ doesnt have the correct peel or is unable to kite the melee His Q is suppose to be his bread and butter ability and suppose to grant a unique range skill shot basic attack His W needs to be balanced and focused on stop a lethal projectile and not about being invincible or being the new fortify (that summoner spell was removed for a reason because of how overpowered it was and how much it stopped teams to wanting to be aggressive) His E still has a tiny tiny cooldown dashing around minions, but during laning phase this is inevitable because minions are important during laning phase I lowered the duration he can keep his tornado to 8 seconds from 10 seconds to reduce Yasuo's ability to zone champions because he has his knock up available, he has easier access to knock ups with a much lower cooldown to Q at max rank and with the range increase so he can get his knock ups and a lot more knock ups than he currently can get it just sacrifices his zoning power during laning phase- his ult doesnt effect his self knock up into ultimate combo, it just prevents yasuo appearing out of no where off screen with an ally gets a displacement effect on an enemy champion- similar range nerf to when kayle's ult range got nerfed to prevent invisible ganks and you arent even a stealth champion regardless- a 900 range skill shot knock up and a 1000 unit point and click ult doesnt even effect yasuo's ability to get his own knock ups- he just no longer can go from his turret to the enemy turret if someone like Vi presses R and he presses R too and the enemy actually has to see the yasuo in order for him to ult
**Pure and simple:** There is no counter to range except gap closers. If you have range you should expect to either explode in fights or do no damage. That is balance. Until that happens Yasuo's strengths relative to all champions should be addressed with regards to the melee vs. ranged debate. Currently ranged champions are overpowered.
Stacona (NA)
: Too bad most melees are considered overpowered and actually needs to be toned down- meaning you agree that yasuo needs to get nerfed super hard where as my ideas to balance him is actually a net buff- you are just focusing on the nerfs- people were saying champions like kayle and lucian were trash tier with their "nerfs" and end up getting massively buffed in the patches where they think the champs got nerfed, kayle's latest change is a definite nerf, but she is still pretty overpowered right now as she is on live just in a better spot than what she used to be in what i want is to allow counter play from yasuo and allow any champion to beat yasuo and have match ups vs yasuo to be about skill match ups and not about 'hey im broken and nothing you can do about it unless you are a bruiser like renekton'
No. Most melees are not overpowered. Yasuo does not need any changes except he might need a slight buff to his shield because he explodes in team fights. There is counterplay to yas. His shield: proc it with some small skill first. Akali Q for example or an AA (ranged to be salty) His Q: Build armor or FH and increase the CD. His W: It has a 26 / 24 / 22 / 20 / 18 CD. Either bait it out or use ranged skills when it's on CD. His E: Don't stand near minions. His R: Don't engage him when he has full Q stacks or Dodge his Q.
Stacona (NA)
: Melee champions have higher stats across the board compared to ranged champs- i did increase the range on his Q- he can still gap close as well, he can stick to the same target better when his dash is maxed, i want the static cooldown increased so that champions can have the counter play to actually land skill shots to help them predict where yasuo is going, this also makes yasuo to not just spam his dash and actually has to think to what he is doing with his dash, but his Q not only grants him an AoE ranged basic attack but it also doubles his DPS because of Q-AA-Q-AA-etc comboes
The ability for Yas to gap close is the only reason he is the most balanced melee champ in a long time. Despite slightly higher base stats for melee champs they still do zero damage if they're at range+1. Meanwhile, the ranged champ is still doing damage. Still doing damage > zero damage. Until that issue is addressed Yasuo is the best melee that has been released in a long time and all other melees should be brought up to the same level of play.
: How retarded are you? As someone who has played 100 games with Yasuo, i can tell you there is counterplay. You're just too daft to notice it. Not only that, your changes make it so that Yasuo players can only stand in lane and think angry thoughts at their enemy. For example, no damage on Sweeping Blade? What the hell are you smoking?!
Don't be rude.
Stacona (NA)
: Yasuo is no where near balanced, he actually is very poorly balanced, with almost zero counter play in his kit- i want to open up counter play when playing against yasuo and actually make him 'hard to play as' he has been released for awhile now, it is time he can be properly balanced like other champions after they were released for awhile
All ranged champions can attack from outside a melee champ's range. That's a given since they're ranged. If you're range+1 as a melee champ you do zero damage while the ranged champ can plink away at you. There needs to be a trade off for being ranged -- Ideally ranged champs would be significantly squishy and couldn't kite. Yas is the most balanced melee champ recently added because he has the ability to gap close and makes up a large part of the imbalance between range/melee.
Stacona (NA)
: Yasuo
There is already a strong bias toward ranged champions. Yasuo is probably the most balanced melee champ recently added to the game. If anything he needs to be tankier.
Abhishek (NA)
: >identifying who's a smurf and who isn't I don't really know if it's the game identifying the smurfs... I feel like that's just a coincidence. Maybe Riot could shed some light on that at some point in time, I'm not quite sure about that... >a system that scales XP gains with wins There's already a system that gives more XP for a win than a loss, that's standard. Are you proposing a win streak system?
That would be a step forward. Another step forward would be increasing the XP gains for people with MMR greater than average for their player level. I.e. by my third game I was playing with other players who were level 9.
Abhishek (NA)
: So what would you suggest? I'd love to hear your opinion on it, and maybe we can work out some sort of proposal from there. If you're talking about a way to bypass the levels if you are already experienced in the game? A system like that could be easily abused. Leveling is put in place to help new players, and new players only. Why? Because you're generally supposed to only have *one account*.
The game's already really good about identifying who's a smurf and who isn't. After 3 or 4 games the majority of players on my team were other smurfs. If it's so good at identifying smurfs there could also be a system that scales XP gains with wins.
Abhishek (NA)
: *Tl;dr It gives you a way to gain experience and a goal to strive for.* The issue there is that people have multiple accounts, and already have experience at playing the game / understanding the game. Those people don't feel the same stress of winning, and are simply playing to rush their accounts to level 30. Having those early levels gives experience to *new players* before they dive into ranked games once hitting level 30 (emphasis on new players; after completing the tutorials, the new players are simply set out into Summoner's Rift, and still do not understand all the basics of the game- League is an ever evolving learning process, and each day brings new and unique experiences. No two players are the same. While I understand your mentality as to how leveling is worthless, think about it this way. Say you just started the game, and you are allowed to play ranked... so you decide to immediately dive in (we all know at least one person like this) instead of practicing and preparing for the games that matter... and you're in queue, and arrive in a game with people that have played for two years and are in, say, Silver. You will, quite simply, be weighing your team down with your inexperience. Just imagine how people will rage when they find you just joined the game! In a way, it's also here to weed out the players who aren't committed to the game and becoming a better player overall. I am certain that most of the people that join league are playing to get somewhere with their account and achieve something, like place high on the ranked ladder. This reason, however, is not as central as the other one I listed above. Going through 30 levels is not easy... but it takes a certain level of commitment, and once you reach it, you gain a certain pride (I have experienced this myself, and I can assure you that it is quite magnificent). There's always something left to strive for, something more you can get, something else you can do. You just have to seize your opportunities and play the game like you want it to be played, and play it to the best of your abilities! Good luck on the Fields of Justice! If you have any other questions about my points, or about anything in general, reply here or add me in game! Cheers, Otter.
Already having a lvl 30 account on NA, it takes far too long to get a level 30 account on LAN. While it may be relevant for new players to experience leveling up it is not relevant for players who already know how to play.
Rioter Comments
: Matchmaking in Normals seems to have been deteriorating recently
All game modes really need to have aggregate MMR.

J P Hendersnoot

Level 17 (NA)
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