Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 6
"Looking into the effects of preseason on jungler performance We're looking into jungler performance right now, with the goal being to make some adjustments if needs be in 9.24b. Primary angles we're considering are: Average level before preseason and after at different points in the game. When combined with kill participation this serves as a fairly good proxy for overall jungler influence. Variation in jungler performance. The removal of catch up XP was intended to bring about bigger differences between high and low performing junglers. We do want to make sure we haven't swung too far the other way though, make sure small mistakes or good plays aren't leading to large advantages/disadvantages. Whether particular classes and/or jungler styles are over or under performing (e.g. tanks versus carries, farmers versus gankers etc)." I hope that jungle becomes a worthwhile role for me to play again in Season 10.
Squad5 (NA)
: Diana changes on PBE
Wasn't Diana's Moonfall a key part of her combo before? She pulls enemies in so that she can cleave them with her auto attack? Granted the mobility creep in the game is... creeping... so why not let her mobility creep along too? "Having access to Lunar Rush early should give Diana more agency in lane to maneuver, and give her more options than simply trying to survive until level level 6. Or in the case of jungle Diana, make her clear and ganking patterns stronger." Am I correct in understanding that mobility creep is the motivation for this change?
: Wukong Update- Progress Report!
Hmm, changes based on Wukong's win percentage pre-Baron vs post 35 minutes... "These changes should help smooth out that curve, so that Wukong feels competitive in the early game without dominating team fights with his innate tankiness and high burst damage." Is this really a good enough reason to change this aspect of Wukong? Isn't the tough early game supposed to be a trade off for Wukong's late game power? Hmm, based on recommendations from Wukong players? "I did my best to listen to the fans and focus on the areas you cited as most frustrating- high mana costs and low Passive/R satisfaction. In addition to these upgrades, Wukong is gaining extremely powerful new tools in the form of a free-target dash, more convincing clone deception, and a physical damage shield." Wouldn't a fair adjustment take into account both those who play Wukong and those who play against Wukong? Was Wukong considered to be too weak as a champion? Is he in need of a buff? I'm not sure these changes to Wukong are sufficiently justified. I hope the resulting champion ends up in a good place.
: i feel like all of the people commenting in favor of the support item changes arent support players
Season 9, I migrated from jungle to support because the jungle changes were so bad. Maybe I'll migrate to another role Season 10, if the support changes are really bad. If I had to guess, I'd say that RIOT was looking to get rid of some of the power supports have in the game. But I expect that there would also be nerfs to Pyke's gold generation and other important nerfs if RIOT is really serious about this direction. So I really don't know what RIOT is trying to accomplish here. Their reason given is: "We're refreshing support items to be less poachable by solo laners and have an expanded quest system that provides free, automatic upgrades, letting supports start the rest of their build earlier." And this doesn't exactly make sense to me. I don't see a lot of, if any, champions poaching the support items in my games and what I have seen hasn't really been a problem actually. I will say that starting the rest of your build early is much nicer, but I don't really understand the end to gold generation and the reasoning behind preventing poaching. The support items were already difficult to poach.
JPlayah (NA)
: New support items are literally institutionalized poverty
IMO, this is just another way in which Runes Reloaded is a failure. In the past, you could make the choice to take gold generation runes to supplement your income. The old runes always gave players some sorts of diverse options to deal with the constant changes of the game. But Runes Reloaded is really too shallow and doesn't offer good choices.
MickuPgBz (EUW)
: Please don't keep support items this way.
I have to say I feel pretty good about not having to back to upgrade my support item. I'm not sure how I feel about an end to gold generation, but I think the gold generation options have always been problematic.
Zaiin (EUNE)
: Patch 9.23 First feelings
First Thoughts? Damage META, baby! "Edge of Night is the defensive lethality option" - Patch Notes 9.23 Jokes aside, it looks like RIOT is focused on innovating, and not that much concerned about the Damage META problem. However, they did remove true damage conversion from the Conqueror Rune, which is one small step in the right direction.
Cdore (NA)
: Season 9 isn't going anywhere. Season 10 is just the same thing with pretty new dragon rng effects. We're not off that train yet.
This. It may be the official end of Season 9, but we are still essentially playing on Season 9 patches and we don't know how long it will last. I agree that it's probably the worst Season in the history of LoL so far, but not because of "matchmaking". That term is probably being incorrectly used by the OP. Personally, I had the best matchmaking experience across multiple accounts and servers of any Season of LoL so far. For example, I didn't have wild discrepancies between how long it took to rank up my accounts. Instead of it taking 100 games on one account and 400 games on the other account. It took about the same number of games: 100 or so. And I would say it was because I had a much more consistent experience when it came to matchmaking. This is anecdotal evidence. So I don't want to say there are no matchmaking issues. For example, I'm above center on the distribution of players now instead of below center on the distribution of players and that can have a significant impact on the matchmaking experience (because of the tendency to push players away from center over time; RIOT brings new players in at the center of the distribution rather than at the bottom).
: Warwick he had someone hovering over him eternally, only allowed to say "yes" or "no" to his designs XD Even with that, warwick still got several dashes, a global passive and half-map active, an AOE fear effect ...and quite a bit which has been removed CT's designs tend to be good but his problems lie in that not everyone is a CT, so pretty much any champion which does not meet his standards is dumpstered by his champions The original thresh took TWO YEARS of constant changes and nerfs to balance out to the level of other supports and he's still the most popular support
I can't think of any Certainly T designs (or redesigns) that I really like. They are all bad, imo. And I used to main Warwick. Of course, the reason I didn't play jungle this season 9 (unless autofilled) is because of the terrible jungle changes. The least worst options among his creations are Yasuo and Zyra. I don't play Yasuo, but I do sometimes pick Zyra.
: Yeah agreed, I miss old runes 100%... & yeah I never see malphites go anything but pure AP in aram now, its been that way for a long time too.
Having recently been forced to redo all my runes... I looked at the stats around the Malphite builds and it was overwhelmingly in favor of AP Malphite build rather than tank build both in terms of popularity and in terms of win rate. And it's also true that whenever I see someone play Malphite on SR, they are building AP Malphite. Also, it appears to be this way across regions. As someone who was more accustomed to building Malphite tanky... I have to rethink how I play this champion because the stats I looked at showed AP Malphite was better.
: Burst builds are becoming the norm, and it sucks.
For me it isn't just this season, it's ever since Runes Reloaded and the Assassin rework. But this season is even worse with the Damage META. Now someone who knows his stuff might come on here and say that damage is not really higher than in previous seasons that actually it is just in our minds that we are in a Damage META... But Damage META is doesn't just mean that everyone builds damage. It means that there aren't other meaning ways to build. Take for example mana. Most champions don't have a meaningful interaction with mana like they did in previous seasons. For the most part mana is something your champion will get and not have to worry too much about. I know there are energy champions... and that reminds me that RIOT moved away from trying to develop a more interesting energy economy. So it's like this, damage provides the most interesting choices and the most benefit in game regardless of whether or not more or less damage exists in the game in this season compared to previous seasons. It's a Damage META. And yes, burst is not in the right place for a bunch of champions. I have personally experienced the one-shot by Shyvana in Silver ranked play. And yes, it was a literal one-shot - not some combo of abilities, but literally Shyvana throwing out a single long range ability and if that ability connects my champion dies from the damage from that single ability. And I experienced this in multiple games, not just a single isolated game where some Shyvana happened to get fed. And I think about the casters of pro games from previous seasons talking derogatorily about the tanks and "wet-noodle" fights. Is there a negative perception within RIOT concerning defensive options? Because you look at the Runes (I recently had to redo all my Rune Pages because a bug deleted them), and you see "choices" like: would you like to do damage using Rune A, or would you like to do damage using Rune B? In other words, crap choices. For example, Press the Attack: 3 consecutive attacks deals 40-180 bonus adaptive damage. Electrocute: 3 consecutive attacks deals 30-180 bonus adaptive damage. Am I seeing double? There's some extremely minor differences between these two keystones. Anyways that's just one really glaring example out of many examples of how Runes offer really bad, borderline meaningless choices to players. Real crap. And a lot of times it's all about the damage and there aren't any really great defensive options. So when we talk about Damage META we are referring to a lot of different things revolving around damage that are all problematic for the game and are particularly bad during this season 9.
Rioter Comments
koshkyra (NA)
: Riot is sacrificing the identity of the support role to make it more “fun” and appealing.
"Identity of the Support" What are you talking about? Is that some sort of slang for support META? I mean what is the "Identity of the Support"? Is that like saying that other players shouldn't play certain champions in the support position because... you don't like their play style? {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
Horızen (NA)
: What the f*ck is with losers spamming "tryhard"
Ha Ha Ha! They should go back to playing against beginner bots. Intermediate bots are probably too tryhard for them!
Falrein (EUW)
: What are your biggest fears regarding your favourite champions/regions' future?
"Do you trust Riot to handle your favorite champion/region" I'll be happy if RIOT does not "do" anything to my favorite champion. It's my favorite champion for a reason you know. That said, the less RIOT has to "do" to champions, in general, the better it is. The need to "do" things to the various champions suggests that there were reasons things needed "doing". And that suggests something wrong with the game that needed fixing. Maybe five years ago RIOT could say they were "innovating" but 10 years into the game and still "innovating" isn't such a good thing anymore. but, you know, we've probably passed that point and RIOT has been sort of slow to get it (if they do get it). Another thing is that, in recent years, RIOT has been doing more things at the request of the general player base. And this is actually a bad thing to do because most players actually don't really understand what makes the game fun for them as players. Take, for example, damage. Players are always going to want to do more damage. If they ask for more damage, then, as a game designer, you usually ought to tell them "no" because even if you give them more damage they will simply ask for even more damage and keep asking for more damage. A game designer needs to understand this. It's very important not to give players everything that they "want". There's lot of other developer traps RIOT has to navigate. Like when they remove a thing because not a lot of player appear to use it. That can be a deceptive thing that tricks designers into removing parts of the game that really add to the game. That was the case with item sets. RIOT basically said that players didn't use items sets that much and removed items sets. And there was a player outrage. Didn't I just say not to listen to the players? Ah, yes, but if you were paying attention, then you know that the reason you don't listen to players is because they won't ever be satisfied. Items Sets actually satisfy players. you either are able to build them or you are not able to build them. There is not "build them more" option like there is with something like "damage". So when they removed Item Sets because players didn't appear to be using them, it was a mistake because what was happening was that they were actually making their game worse by removing a utility that easily satisfied players. TL;DR: Sorry for the ramble.. but the short of it is that RIOT doesn't always design towards a better game. So I hope that they don't do anything to my favorite champions.
: Senna: The "support" ADC
> [{quoted}](name=BrainPuke,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0BAHpZNN,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-10-29T19:33:25.130+0000) > > "and without building marksmen items" > This meshes remarkably well with RIOT's previous declaration, "First Marksman Support". Total BS, of course. I totally called the comparison to Pyke more than 2 weeks ago (and was down-voted). But we'll see what RIOT does with their "support marksman" infatuation.
DalekZec (EUNE)
: Dear angry players complaining about Senna...
I think Senna looks like she might be interesting to play... just don't ask me what all **four** of her passives do...
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=JRobin31,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=z8enrkhT,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-10-21T23:10:55.059+0000) > > AA to hit teammates? So... like Zilean AAs teammates to give them XP? So... not a new idea... just she is forced into support role. ...No? It's his passive, that he didn't originally had. He's not AA based. And i don't mind her being a dedicated support. There's a lot more champs that were forced into certain roles.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=z8enrkhT,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-22T06:25:10.046+0000) > > ...No? It's his passive, that he didn't originally had. He's not AA based. > > And i don't mind her being a dedicated support. There's a lot more champs that were forced into certain roles. All AAs are passive effects. You hit someone, it does something. I don't mind when players decide what champions to play in certain roles. In that sense, I would be just fine with Senna being a dedicated support. But when RIOT signals that they want to pre-determine the role a champion... yuck. When they also indicate breaking META with said champion... double yuck. When they outright state a falsehood about the current state of the game... triple yuck. Outlook: cloudy, wtf is RIOT doing? That said, Senna has been released on PBE, so you can get a better sense of what she might do on release. Go check it out. Information is Power.
AIQ (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=JRobin31,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=z8enrkhT,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-21T23:13:05.286+0000) > > If she does no damage on her own, then the advertisement that she is a support marksman is false advertising, lol. We already have supports that do "no damage" on their own while being ranged champions. But which of those champions start doing more damage with someone near? After hearing Lucians new VO, it kind of confirms that Senna will attack her allies to help them, "Is this about me not making the bed again?" I doubt this is an encounter line. Marksman do not need to do damage to be marksman, by definition they primarily use AA. Kalista, Jayce and Varus do use AA a lot, but they get their damage elsewhere. E/ EQ or QE / W respectively. Senna will probably be AAing like crazy, but she will rely on an ally instead of an ability for her full damage source. Again this speculation.
> [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=z8enrkhT,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-23T13:48:33.494+0000) > > But which of those champions start doing more damage with someone near? > > After hearing Lucians new VO, it kind of confirms that Senna will attack her allies to help them, "Is this about me not making the bed again?" > I doubt this is an encounter line. > > Marksman do not need to do damage to be marksman, by definition they primarily use AA. Kalista, Jayce and Varus do use AA a lot, but they get their damage elsewhere. E/ EQ or QE / W respectively. Senna will probably be AAing like crazy, but she will rely on an ally instead of an ability for her full damage source. > > Again this speculation. What is not speculation is that support marksmen already exist. Senna is not the first. This is indisputable fact. When RIOT says she will be the first... it's just straight up false.
: > [{quoted}](name=JRobin31,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=z8enrkhT,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-10-21T23:08:53.814+0000) > > Indeed. In one case, players were creative; in the other case, game designers were creative. We've had a total 3 "support" marksmen in League ever (counting as a marksmen going support), and of the 3 only 1 even acted somewhat as a support (font of life Ashe). Senna will be the first support marksman that **actually supports**, instead of being a marksman that some supports take bot (usually where they do massively worse than any traditional support).
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Dusteon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=z8enrkhT,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-10-21T23:41:24.893+0000) > > We've had a total 3 "support" marksmen in League ever (counting as a marksmen going support), and of the 3 only 1 even acted somewhat as a support (font of life Ashe). > > Senna will be the first support marksman that **actually supports**, instead of being a marksman that some supports take bot (usually where they do massively worse than any traditional support). So... you agree... Senna is not the First Support Marksman. There have, in fact, been 3 support marksmen already by your count. As to "actually supports"... what do you mean by that? And I wonder if Senna will "actually support"? Does Pyke "actually support"?
AIQ (NA)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=z8enrkhT,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-16T17:22:56.531+0000) > > Judging ONLY by what I saw in the film, Senna is the only "Support Marksmen" because she will likely primarily uses AA to do everything. > It will not surprise me if Senna can AA allied champions providing them with a buff of sorts and debuffing enemies. > > Her ult or something looks like invulnerability she can only give to an ally not her self, this makes it to where she cannot rely on herself to win a marksman 1v1. > > She will likely also suffer from low range like Lucian, but will maybe not have mobility in exchange of more "enchanting stuff" > > Obviously this is all a guess and I can be 100% wrong. However, other marksmen that have support abilities like Ashe CC and Varus R and MF are not centric on those things. Senna will likely do little to no damage alone. > > Additionally MF was only a counter pick to Zyra and was not good alone as a support. Her kit was alone not designed to enable her ADC. If she does no damage on her own, then the advertisement that she is a support marksman is false advertising, lol. We already have supports that do "no damage" on their own while being ranged champions.
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: You can play a "support marksman", but there were none dedicated purely for supporting teammates. I'm guessing she will be either AA based, or will have skillshots that shield or heal other players, at least that's what i'm getting from that trailer.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=z8enrkhT,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-16T17:43:42.824+0000) > > You can play a "support marksman", but there were none dedicated purely for supporting teammates. I'm guessing she will be either AA based, or will have skillshots that shield or heal other players, at least that's what i'm getting from that trailer. AA to hit teammates? So... like Zilean AAs teammates to give them XP? So... not a new idea... just she is forced into support role.
: there's a difference between a champion that got pigeon holed into being a support marksman by circumstance, and one that was designed from the ground up to be a support marksman.
> [{quoted}](name=preternatural,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=z8enrkhT,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-10-16T17:54:01.796+0000) > > there's a difference between a champion that got pigeon holed into being a support marksman by circumstance, and one that was designed from the ground up to be a support marksman. Indeed. In one case, players were creative; in the other case, game designers were creative.
Rioter Comments
: when yuumi support does more damage than the other 4 on your team TOGETHER
O yeah, finally C9 gets the Yuumi, casters just jabbering sh*t all game.
: Can We FINALLY Put this HKA stuff to rest
Listening to the casters talk about the C9 vs HKA game... it's like they are talking out of their ***es.
: Revert Garen
RITO: Garen is being played at Worlds. Success! Players: ... {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
Rioter Comments
: ELO difference in ranked games.
You've raised an excellent point that I hope RIOT will examine, but I'm also skeptical that RIOT will come up with any solution to the dilemma you've posed as long as RIOT insists on super secrecy of their hidden matchmaking system while enforcing an inaccurate Superficial Ranking system as the reference by which players understand where they stand in relation to other players.
Jøkèr (NA)
: Get rid of promo games.
Personally, I don't treat promo games any differently than other games I play. This season I haven't even tried hard to get to any particular rank. I don't keep track of how much LP I have, I don't keep track of whether or not I'm in a promo series. And I have to say... it's a lot less stressful and the game is more enjoyable. I do sort keep track of my rank in a vague way: like I'm Silver or I see I'm playing game with Bronze borders or I see I'm playing games with gold borders. Or I see I'm playing games with Silver borders. But i don't have any anxieties about where I really belong. If I make Gold this season it might be nice, but if I do make Gold it will be because it just sort of happened while I was playing games and not because I was feeling a deep seated urge to perform well in what is just a handful of games (3 or 5) out of the more than one hundred games that I've played already. For me, every game is equally important. So, we as players can make the choice not to place importance on promos. As for getting RIOT to do away with promos... Good Luck with that!
Jansuo (EUNE)
: As someone from Riot said some time ago: "buffing champions feels better than nerfing them".
I think that's RIOT's problem. They don't want to say "No" to the player base. They are afraid to nerf because nerfing feels bad, but nerfing is exactly what they need to do. I realize that, generally speaking, neither nerfing nor buffing actually solves problems with the game.
: > [{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nPyPaaEF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-20T20:47:54.670+0000) > > nice > > but why does she have a katarina poster Well I felt the wall looked too bare with nothing there. So I put one of my previous drawings there as a poster to add some variety to an otherwise very plain wall. Plus, Katarina x Lux is a top tier ship tbh
> [{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nPyPaaEF,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-20T20:49:39.163+0000) > > Well I felt the wall looked too bare with nothing there. So I put one of my previous drawings there as a poster to add some variety to an otherwise very plain wall. Plus, Katarina x Lux is a top tier ship tbh More to the point, why does Lux have red hair? And why did you decide to make her blurry? Also what's with the blonde-haired chick in the foreground? Is she a Lux main? And does she want to go on a date with me? What's her LoL rank? - Wait, never mind, she's clearly playing LoL on mobile...
: THIS is what a team fight should look like....
I remember that fight! The interesting thing is the duel between Stixxay and Looper at the end. Compare that fight to the duel between Darshan had (not long ago?) as tank Ornn vs Kaisa (basically equal items equal level) where he got owned (from full health to no health) in his own base. It was sad, very sad. Kaisa walked away with almost no health loss despite tanking tower shots practically the whole time and diving to enemy Nexus turrets! And you look at this fight that happened here and you see at the start of the duel Stixxay was less than half full health because of the teamfight, but Looper still barely won despite coming back at full health (granted Stixxay had red and blue buffs)!
Fuya (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=JRobin31,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0EqcU7jr,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-09-17T22:42:30.782+0000) > > I think RIOT's envisioned future might not be one that I share. > > If there is one thing that RIOT should do or not do to maintain some semblance of shared vision with me, then it would be: > > **To Stop Reworking Old Champion's Kits**. > > Just... stop. Tweak champions? Sure. Rework? I'm sick of it. > > I spend significant time researching the champions and skins I buy and there's a limited budget for it. It's a significant investment for me to purchase a particular champion or skin. If RIOT wants to tweak, nerf, buff, whatever, but if RIOT wants a new champion in the game then RIOT can release a new champion for the game. They don't need to delete the champion that I invested in. > > I posted in another thread about how RIOT needs to do something to tone down the AP Shyvana and someone posted back that RIOT was going to rework her. If I was upset about AP Shyvana, I was ten times as upset to hear someone say RIOT was planning a rework for her! Those are the times I question continued investment in the game. I think to myself: "Why should I invest anymore into this game?" > > And I know a lot of people out there are like: the Urgot rework was awesome! > IMFAO, the game was better with old Urgot in it than it is with new Urgot, not because the old Urgot's kit was better than the new Urgot's kit (we all know the new Urgot's kit is "better"), but because in RIOT's zeal to rework champions they actively f* up the identities of those champions. > > And so, I question the vision RIOT has for this game and I wonder to myself, "How much of RIOT's vision for this game do I actually share?" That's the big question for me as LoL comes into its tenth year anniversary. We've had a decade to see what RIOT's vision for the game is. So... what is RIOT's vision for the game? I used to main old Urgot, and I STILL miss him to this day. Draven is nice, but Urgot was a whole other ballgame. FUCK I want Oldgot back
> [{quoted}](name=Fuya,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0EqcU7jr,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-09-18T00:25:28.792+0000) > > I used to main old Urgot, and I STILL miss him to this day. Draven is nice, but Urgot was a whole other ballgame. > > FUCK I want Oldgot back This right here is what I'm talking about. You have a vision for the game and you get a bunch of players online and they are loving it and then someone decides that that investment isn't important to the game any more. So okay... what game are we really playing here? What's the true vision for this game?
: > [{quoted}](name=JRobin31,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0EqcU7jr,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-09-17T22:42:30.782+0000) > > I think RIOT's envisioned future might not be one that I share. > > If there is one thing that RIOT should do or not do to maintain some semblance of shared vision with me, then it would be: > > **To Stop Reworking Old Champion's Kits**. > > Just... stop. Tweak champions? Sure. Rework? I'm sick of it. > > I spend significant time researching the champions and skins I buy and there's a limited budget for it. It's a significant investment for me to purchase a particular champion or skin. If RIOT wants to tweak, nerf, buff, whatever, but if RIOT wants a new champion in the game then RIOT can release a new champion for the game. They don't need to delete the champion that I invested in. > > I posted in another thread about how RIOT needs to do something to tone down the AP Shyvana and someone posted back that RIOT was going to rework her. If I was upset about AP Shyvana, I was ten times as upset to hear someone say RIOT was planning a rework for her! Those are the times I question continued investment in the game. I think to myself: "Why should I invest anymore into this game?" > > And I know a lot of people out there are like: the Urgot rework was awesome! > IMFAO, the game was better with old Urgot in it than it is with new Urgot, not because the old Urgot's kit was better than the new Urgot's kit (we all know the new Urgot's kit is "better"), but because in RIOT's zeal to rework champions they actively f* up the identities of those champions. > > And so, I question the vision RIOT has for this game and I wonder to myself, "How much of RIOT's vision for this game do I actually share?" That's the big question for me as LoL comes into its tenth year anniversary. We've had a decade to see what RIOT's vision for the game is. So... what is RIOT's vision for the game? I think Riot wants the "old" champions to be as flashy as the new ones. I never understood the exact term of an "outdated kit". A champions kit is in most cases viable if you put some effort in understanding the champion. Ofcourse there are some exceptions here and there. For example, I feel like the Old Graves could have done well in todays meta. The kit todays Graves has... they could've potentially designed another champion for it. It is not like I dislike the rework in this case, but I feel like the old Graves wasn't "outdated". Same for Akali, Katarina, Nocturne, Taric, etc.
> [{quoted}](name=NoGloryFound,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0EqcU7jr,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2019-09-18T01:38:41.998+0000) > > I think Riot wants the "old" champions to be as flashy as the new ones. I never understood the exact term of an "outdated kit". A champions kit is in most cases viable if you put some effort in understanding the champion. Ofcourse there are some exceptions here and there. For example, I feel like the Old Graves could have done well in todays meta. The kit todays Graves has... they could've potentially designed another champion for it. It is not like I dislike the rework in this case, but I feel like the old Graves wasn't "outdated". Same for Akali, Katarina, Nocturne, Taric, etc. Absolutely. "outdated kit" What does that even mean? Does it mean that they aren't META? *gasp* Oh no!
AIQ (NA)
: When it comes to reworks I think you have a slightly skewed way of viewing them. It is sometimes about changing a champion for instance EZ and Poppy where mostly "changes" if you will. Urgot and Sion were not meant to change the champions, rather delete the old one and add a new champion. They did not want any semblance of their kits because they were unhealthy. Older full blown reworks were mostly good. As you said {{champion:78}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:74}} were pretty spot on. I don't think anyone really wants the old version of these. At some point ALL champion will need updates and changes, from Karthus level to Sion level. It's mostly about hitting the mark. Recently, {{champion:39}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:266}} where not huge failures visually, but from a balance state the broke the mold in a bad way. New Champions like {{champion:517}} {{champion:145}} made this even worse. Overloaded kits from recent reworks have sullied reworks in general. I doubt anyone will argue that visually {{champion:39}} is one of if not the best visual champion in the game atm, at the same time people will complain she is one of the most overloaded champion. This unfortunately out shines champions like {{champion:80}} who kept most of his essence and I'd say hit the mark solidly. Or {{champion:82}} who with a bit of balancing became a monster in a good way and is much healthier than before, {{champion:20}} traded a pretty trash ability for a fun and entertaining snowball. But because of the amount of failures and state of the game, people here are ignoring that. > I posted in another thread about how RIOT needs to do something to tone down the AP Shyvana and someone posted back that RIOT was going to rework her. I can speak to this champion since she is near and dear to me. The issue is not that AD Shyvana is "weak", you can still get far better numbers on AD Shyvana then AP. The problem is kiting, as players improve they understand Shyvanas blatant and easy weakness. AD Shyvana has no tools to correct this she is literally a walking ball of fire one that you must kill or be killed by. AP Shyvana allows you to play to the meta, "damage", sacrificing all you tank stats, you become a 1300 dps nuke with 4/6/9 shots. This is not Shyvana, while the versatility is great sine you can actually choose a form, the problem boils down to AD is 90% of the time just worse. While you could change her by removing all her AP ratios and empowering her on hit or AD, You either A make Shyvana busted, or B Make her irrelevant. She's old, her kit was not designed to deal with mobility well it was her weakness, now everyone has it so who does AD Shvyana actually deal with? No small changes will fix her, she needs a rework. Cool concepts that could fix this issue are turning her into a ranged DPS like TFT in dragon form, or giving her multiple forms depending on dragons taken to deal with CC or Kiting. Of course mobility to challenge mobility, or actual flight. These would change Shyvana. And I wont lie to you, I'm terrified of what they may do to Shyvana, but I cannot argue that she needs the rework. > And so, I question the vision RIOT has for this game and I wonder to myself, "How much of RIOT's vision for this game do I actually share? I think Riot is unsure of the vision THEY share.
> [{quoted}](name=AIQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=0EqcU7jr,comment-id=00050002,timestamp=2019-09-18T14:35:50.416+0000) > > When it comes to reworks I think you have a slightly skewed way of viewing them. It is sometimes about changing a champion for instance EZ and Poppy where mostly "changes" if you will. > > Urgot and Sion were not meant to change the champions, rather delete the old one and add a new champion. > They did not want any semblance of their kits because they were unhealthy. > Older full blown reworks were mostly good. As you said > {{champion:78}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:74}} were pretty spot on. I don't think anyone really wants the old version of these. > > At some point ALL champion will need updates and changes, from Karthus level to Sion level. It's mostly about hitting the mark. > > Recently, {{champion:39}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:266}} where not huge failures visually, but from a balance state the broke the mold in a bad way. New Champions like {{champion:517}} {{champion:145}} made this even worse. Overloaded kits from recent reworks have sullied reworks in general. I doubt anyone will argue that visually {{champion:39}} is one of if not the best visual champion in the game atm, at the same time people will complain she is one of the most overloaded champion. > > This unfortunately out shines champions like {{champion:80}} who kept most of his essence and I'd say hit the mark solidly. Or {{champion:82}} who with a bit of balancing became a monster in a good way and is much healthier than before, {{champion:20}} traded a pretty trash ability for a fun and entertaining snowball. But because of the amount of failures and state of the game, people here are ignoring that. > > I can speak to this champion since she is near and dear to me. The issue is not that AD Shyvana is "weak", you can still get far better numbers on AD Shyvana then AP. The problem is kiting, as players improve they understand Shyvanas blatant and easy weakness. AD Shyvana has no tools to correct this she is literally a walking ball of fire one that you must kill or be killed by. AP Shyvana allows you to play to the meta, "damage", sacrificing all you tank stats, you become a 1300 dps nuke with 4/6/9 shots. This is not Shyvana, while the versatility is great sine you can actually choose a form, the problem boils down to AD is 90% of the time just worse. > > While you could change her by removing all her AP ratios and empowering her on hit or AD, You either A make Shyvana busted, or B Make her irrelevant. She's old, her kit was not designed to deal with mobility well it was her weakness, now everyone has it so who does AD Shvyana actually deal with? No small changes will fix her, she needs a rework. Cool concepts that could fix this issue are turning her into a ranged DPS like TFT in dragon form, or giving her multiple forms depending on dragons taken to deal with CC or Kiting. Of course mobility to challenge mobility, or actual flight. These would change Shyvana. And I wont lie to you, I'm terrified of what they may do to Shyvana, but I cannot argue that she needs the rework. > If RIOT wants a new champion in the game, then they can release a new champion into the game. They don't have to delete champions from the game. They didn't have to delete old champions like {{champion:78}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:74}} . The notion that all champions eventually need reworks is flawed. Updates and changes? Sure. Reworks? No. No. No. > I think Riot is unsure of the vision THEY share. Yeah, that's probably true, but after a decade of development, they ought to be a significantly closer to sharing a common vision, whether or not that vision includes me.
: Anyone else feel like the anniversary is going to make or break league for the next ten years?
If RIOT is smart they'll take advantage of the ten year anniversary to be nostalgic. If they are lucky, then they won't mess it up with their new fangled design BS. There's a chance that if they mess it up badly enough, then I'm peace out.
: It's actually fucking astonishing
It seems like promos is when the system chooses to auto-fill me. Which... I don't really mind because I main support. Haha RIOT! "The jokes on you!"
: Raise your voices pls
Maybe RIOT is trolling us?
: Discussion Thread About Riot's Envisioned Future (Please Join To Give Your Opinion)
I think RIOT's envisioned future might not be one that I share. If there is one thing that RIOT should do or not do to maintain some semblance of shared vision with me, then it would be: **To Stop Reworking Old Champion's Kits**. Just... stop. Tweak champions? Sure. Rework? I'm sick of it. I spend significant time researching the champions and skins I buy and there's a limited budget for it. It's a significant investment for me to purchase a particular champion or skin. If RIOT wants to tweak, nerf, buff, whatever, but if RIOT wants a new champion in the game then RIOT can release a new champion for the game. They don't need to delete the champion that I invested in. I posted in another thread about how RIOT needs to do something to tone down the AP Shyvana and someone posted back that RIOT was going to rework her. If I was upset about AP Shyvana, I was ten times as upset to hear someone say RIOT was planning a rework for her! Those are the times I question continued investment in the game. I think to myself: "Why should I invest anymore into this game?" And I know a lot of people out there are like: the Urgot rework was awesome! IMFAO, the game was better with old Urgot in it than it is with new Urgot, not because the old Urgot's kit was better than the new Urgot's kit (we all know the new Urgot's kit is "better"), but because in RIOT's zeal to rework champions they actively f* up the identities of those champions. And so, I question the vision RIOT has for this game and I wonder to myself, "How much of RIOT's vision for this game do I actually share?" That's the big question for me as LoL comes into its tenth year anniversary. We've had a decade to see what RIOT's vision for the game is. So... what is RIOT's vision for the game?
Rioter Comments
: Karma hard nerfs???
I looked and saw {{champion:82}} buff?!? what? {{champion:82}} is a Tier 2 champion getting buffed and {{champion:43}} is a Tier 4 champion getting nerfed?!? To be clear in {{champion:82}} match-ups I have almost no counter-play. It's literally he will farm me with his ult. I made a thread to discuss options. I got many suggestions and I implemented all suggestions in actual ranked games against Mordekaiser and came back to the thread and gave feedback on my experiences - exhausted all options. It's not cool that he is getting a buff. And {{champion:43}} percent scaling nerf? What? Why? {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
: Why trolls win League of Legends.
50% win rate matchmaking... eventually someone is going to carry that troll to victory. It is inevitable. Let it go. Of course, my team managed to carry our whining, surrender-vote spamming, waste of time declaring, soft AFKing (when she wasn't feeding) Karma-mid butt to victory. At least she apologized in post-game lobby. Actually surprised me. They don't usually do that.
: Worry not she is in the rework list so the BS will be purged sooner or later
**Rework?!?** What? No, no, no, no, no. She doesn't need a rework! Her kit is fine. She just needs her damage tuned. RITO please. I never said rework her! Why you do this? {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
: I just heard new players default MMR is now iron
If the entry point for new players has been moved to Iron, then it is a huge improvement for the game over previous seasons of Silver/Bronze (or even Gold?) entry point madness. Play ten games and get ranked Silver or Gold? How was that not bullshit?
BigFBear (EUW)
: Who else enjoys "League of 15 Champs" as much as me this season?
RIOT added too many champions to the game. RIOT as a company is not able to give the needed attention to each champion. It's not a problem for players because there are millions of players and each player only needs to know 20 champions, maybe 30 champions for an extended pool. So players will never be adversely affected by having too many champion choices no matter how many champions get released. It's just not possible to overwhelm the player community with too many champions. This is solely a maintenance problem on RIOT's end. Let's say that there is a top thirty set of champions. Players figure out who those are and play choices from the top thirty. The other 100+ champions that aren't in the top thirty? Yeah, RIOT has to worry about those, but the top thirty champions cover about 86% of the picks that players make.
: If you are going to make this sort of video. At least change the unforgiving meta.
I took the TILT test and it classified me as Lord DGAF. "Walking the line between “chill” and “nihilistic,” this spirit doesn’t want their time wasted and won’t hesitate to emotionally call it quits on a match or another player, all before the five-minute mark" Wow! I can't imagine ever doing this in one of my games. Is the TILT test trolling us? I'm clearly a Scarred Veteran. "This spirit whispers that the only way to not tilt is to ignore it. To play another game. To stop on a good note. To get better teammates. The Scarred Veteran of tilt finds themselves alone at 3:00 AM, in the zone and desperately trying to break a loss streak. Who needs sleep when there's a win just over the horizon?" Maybe the system got confused because I've learned to overcome my tilt? Instead of playing until I win, I play until I lose. I highly recommend this strategy btw. Always try to end your day on a game loss instead of a game win. And that includes if you are in the middle of promos. Don't finish the promo series if you lose a game because you're thinking "it's only one more game to finish my promos"... Let it go and you will be on the path to mastering your tilt.
Rioter Comments
: Game's are not decided by the one who carries, it's decided by the one that throws the most.
I've seen some games where one player will carry against all odds (but if you look more closely it's usually a throw by the opposing team due to a failure to avoid/focus that carry properly). There are also games where we would've won if the fifth player did not act butt hurt and AFK. Coming off an 8 game win streak, I'd say that not being the weak link (mentally) is huge. Negative comments roll like water off a duck's back. Saying "No" to every surrender vote or outright ignoring them (RIOT please - let me remove surrender vote from my HUD, please, please, please, please). It's just that in my experience the opinions of whiners just don't matter. Some games I was S+ material, and some of these games I was grade C, 0/5 material... but the enemy Nexus was still exploding and Victory coming up on my screen. So attitude makes a difference.
: What are some ways to negate Pyke's power?
My Challenger friend said that Pyke must get kills with his ultimate and snowball or he will become useless. So the key is to avoid the Pyke ult. I play in Silver games. What do I do? Ban Phase: You could Ban him. Everyone knows that. Not super helpful advice (unless your teammates suck, in which case it's the best and only advice). Pick Phase: Pick champions that counter Pyke's ultimate such as {{champion:26}} . You read when Pyke is about to ult and use Zilean ult. OR pick a healer. When Pyke is about to ult, you heal the target. Pyke's ultimate fails to execute. Counter picking gives easy wins against most Pyke players. It might as well be 5v4. Of course, maybe you don't own any counterpicks or don't like the counter picks. What to do? In-Game: Lane Phase: hook is telegraphed. If you can't dodge it, then run behind minions to block it. If Pyke goes invisible, simply run away. He generally really can't catch you if you just run away when he goes invisible. Pyke's stun is the most annoying, but it usually only lands if you overextend in lane or if he lands his hook. So don't overextend and dodge his hook! What if you get ganked: Always a problem in any game, but usually Pyke telegraphs the gank by going aggressive and usually if you just deny him the hook, then he can't get anything out of it. But you play an aggressive support that wants to fight, now what: too bad for you. Suck it up and play safe. Virtually any support will out scale him if he gets denied the gold from his ults. But my lane partner is feeding him: That's really too bad. I guess you should've banned Pyke or grabbed a counterpick. Otherwise, you should've played so as to have Pyke trying to kill you instead trying to kill your lane partner. Like picking a tank and body-blocking the hook, then wrecking his face. Rest of Game: if you laned properly against Pyke, then you denied him any ult kills and if you didn't lane properly, he got fed and got his bot lane fed. You laned properly: now your team farms him for easy kills, snowballs and wins the game. Why is that? Because when Pyke hooks a stronger enemy, all he does is place a powerful opponent in the face of his teammates and he gets wrecked. If he makes a comeback, then he earned it by being a better player somehow. Suck it up and move on. You laned improperly against him: You better be crazy good at mid game or you just lost the game for your team, gj, go you! You better hope your other lanes knew what they were doing (unlike you) and are snowballing harder than Pyke is. Let them carry you or die trying. But... I don't lane against Pyke: Tell your team to get {{item:2420}} and deny the Pyke ults. If they don't listen, then it's your fault for not banning Pyke. Items: Generally Speaking: Get {{item:2419}} {{item:2420}} {{item:2423}} . You could use runes to get one or you could spend some gold to get one. It's not too expensive. Once you deny the early snowball from Pyke ult, he drops off and you win (unless you are bad at the game, in which case: get better at the game). Summoner Spells: You can {{summoner:4}} the Pyke ult. You can {{summoner:7}} before Pyke ult lands. So anyone can have at least 3 outs from being Pyke ulted, if they have any common sense: two summoners and an item. If you still feed the Pyke despite having 3 outs from his ult, then you need to get better at the game.
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JRobin31

Level 78 (NA)
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