Just saying and it is true. In the case of Katarina and Yi, they have very VERY subpar survability once they get stuck. A single stun means curtains for them and since they don't have the kits that allow them to build tanky in anyway, they have to do their damage incredibly quickly to actually be viable as champions. So yeah, stun them.

Doesn't even have to be a stun, a snare, a root, any hard CC will do, but if your team comp is so crappy that you don't have any hard CC, you don't have any right to complain when you lose.

> [{quoted}](name=Don Lupus,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RBtmqvTj,comment-id=002b00000000,timestamp=2018-08-17T09:43:56.585+0000) > > To be fair, this forum holds more posts that are people complaining about other people complaining than actual complaints that are complained about. *shrug*

> [{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3zO7ZZiu,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-17T07:25:24.563+0000) > > there are 140 champions in the game. Granted poppy had design issues. But they could have just changed those abilities. > > It doesnt matter how many people play them. So long as they arent breaking the game its worth keeping them. Having poppy in the game as a bruiser doesnt hurt anyone. They all just play other champions and get along just fine. but removing them does hurt the players who play them. Who cares if poppy had a .2 percent playrate. That .2 percent fucking love her. change her ult a bit and change her passive a bit so she can get a bit more power. (idk maybe instead of invulerable to cc and damage, maybe 50% reduced damage and 50% tenacity, and we can balance from there. Maybe instead of reducing all damage over 10% of your max HP by 50% maybe its just by 10%. and you can give back some of her power into her kit.) At point, is it still Poppy then, it is still the champion you wanted and liked? > contrary to popular opinion these champions held such terrible playrates because they were intentionally gutted and left there. It had nothing to do with how fun they were. People like to win, and they dont want to put in a lot of effort and deal with being garbage every time they play. So only the truly dedicated stayed with them. that doesnt mean you couldnt have just tweaked the actual kit instead of removing it. There was room for changes, or at least attempted changes before the champ was deleted. Because their designs didn't work and/or pure and utter stat checks. Sion got reworked because no matter what you choose, AD or AP, you were literally cut off from two of your abilities. If you went AD Sion, your Q and W were useless, and if AP, then your E and R, that isn't good game design. Poppy was purposely kept in a shitty spot because having a champion that ignored literally everything wasn't good game design, and no amount of adjusting would make it good game design. Katarina was a stat check and took no skill or consideration as was Talon. > Reworks are cancer and whoever fucking started them, may he have lice and boils the rest of his fucking life for all I care. So instead we should have champions be left in spots where no amount modifying would make them viable and if they were, they would be broken, that is better, just to make the few people who do play those champions happy?

To piggybank off Brave, because ranked and normals have two different MMRs so you can have Challenger level skill and rank, but no normals so you play at that level.

You too.

> [{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3zO7ZZiu,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-17T06:35:50.969+0000) > > A. What did they try, seriously. Lower passive cooldown. They didn't attempt to adjust his kit at all. They could have tied his healing with enemy champions. They could have given it percent max hp scalings which also scaled on ad (1.-1.5-2-2.5-3 percent max hp +(1ercent per 50 ad)) or something. They could have tried to make his w 'after a spell lands heal for x amount on your next aa against an enemy champion, toggle to deal bonus damage instead'. And then fiddled with his CD's a bit. And what happens when that didn't work, people still said he sucked, and he still saw no play? > And ya. Maybe after we try a ton of shit he still gets reworked. But at least we fucking tried. Instead of deleting hundreds of people's favorite champion. > > You know what I fear the most from this game?? Riot is about to remove AP ezreal. My third highest played champ that I play predominantly AP. Once they set their sights on riven I won't have any reason the play this stupid game. > > They took karma. Then they took Kat and talon. They are gonna take ez. They took poppy. All my favorite champs are getting deleted slowly but surely. Once they decide they are deleting riven I won't have anything to come back for. > > And I seriously doubt you have any idea how that feels. To look at the anoucment that they are reworking ezreal and knowing that 99% chance that I won't ever enjoy playing him anymore. Cause they are gonna kill his build that I use. Because they don't give a damn about mains. They don't give a damn about the players. They care about fucking change because of change. Nothing else. Seeing as I was a Mordekaiser main, I know exactly how it feels. They didn't just change these champions for the sake of change, they either didn't work, and/or saw no play. No one played old Poppy, I'm sorry for the five people who miss her, but no one played old Poppy. No one played old Kat past season 1, Talon was the only one who saw some amounts of play, but ever since he lost his silence, he saw no play as well until his rework. These champions saw no play, their old kits either didn't work at all, or couldn't keep up with the new meta.

Play him.

Play him, there is no better way to figure out how to beat a champion then to play him. Also, if he is walking up to flay, that means he is putting himself at harm's risk, and if he misses his hook, he is then hookless.

Bing. Set up a bing account, use their search engine enough, get free points daily, use points for burger king gift card, use on client as it also works there.

But they very clearly did try something, ok, you listen to some of those 1.2 million people and their suggestions make him worst, what then?

> [{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3zO7ZZiu,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-17T05:33:16.671+0000) > When we have talked about Aatrox, we’ve typically focused on his self-heal based gameplay, and how difficult it is to maintain. Tackling a project that large is something more appropriate for a full VGU or a champion class update, but that focus has led us to neglect Aatrox for far too long. Aatrox has other problems besides the dicey-ness of self-healing, and we’re taking this time to tackle some of those problems. Hopefully, we’ll come out the other side more comfortable giving Aatrox balance tweaks in the future. > As it stands, Aatrox is always perched on a fine line between smashing everything and not having any options at all. His abilities cost health, which makes fighting from behind even harder. And since his healing scales with his damage, building tanky not only hurts his kill potential, but also doesn’t make him that much harder to kill (because he sacrifices healing potential in the process). We want to give Aatrox more to do in the games he’s not running away with. That means making it more rewarding for him to invest some gold in durability, as well as making it less punishing for him to use his abilities. > > Basically repeating what i said. They decided his gameplay was unbalancable and instead of trying to work within his kit to fix it, they gave him a lazy placeholder rework and then removed him from the game. Because it didn't work, no amount of changes would make it work, either he would be too strong or too weak no inbetween with this old form. So instead of making him too strong and have people bitching about it, they left him weak after years of attempting to make him work.

> [{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3zO7ZZiu,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-17T05:11:06.667+0000) > > ... Tiny buff season 4 and 5. Then Nothing until patch 7.5 when they released his placeholder rework. > > So to concise. 1 nerf right away. Then 4 buffs and a bug fix between season 3 and season 7 when this was released. Please read the aatrox update. (not the mid patch buffs but the actual update) > > > https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-75-notes So what, they have to keep buffing until they are top tier? > I'm pretty sure they already do ignore the boards on anything remotely important. As they should, since most people here are bad and don't even begin to understand the concept of balance.

Didn't you make this post before?

> [{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3zO7ZZiu,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-17T04:49:07.418+0000) > > People don't like playing against yasuo. Who cares? > > Bullshit. They left him in the dumpster without doing anything too him for like 4 years and then gave him a handful of 'qol changes' to, (as was mentioned in the patch notes) tide him over until he got reworked. Riot never tried, or intended to fix him. They just decided after a few months 'fuck him, we will reowrk him later' http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Aatrox#1st I'm sorry what, two nerfs during his inception then nothing but buffs and tiny reworks over the 5 years. He saw two nerfs a couple of months later then from 2013 to December 2017 when it was announced he was getting definitive rework, NOTHING but buffs, so what are you talking about? > Poppy was a late game scaling bruiser whos identity was essentially the first diver. Camille is very similar to poppy actually. > > They removed her and replaced he with a tank. > > Doesn't matter. You still removed an Melee adc/burst mage and replaced it with a tank. Except Camille doesn't have a way to negate all damage and CC that came her way. > People bitch and whine about literally everything that becomes meta. Ffs xerath can become meta and suddenly he would be broken and overpowered because his range is too long. Jhin moves too fast. Zed bursts too hard. Yasuo dashes and has windwall and cc. Tryndemere crits you at level 1. Tryndemere builds AP ( literally a garbage build that people under gold can't figure out how to stop. (tip is called banchees or qss.) Lulu has polymorph. Caits traps last too long. Ashe slows you. Riven dashes like a bunny and bursts you. Patheon throws Spears that hurt at you. Fizz had zero counterplay. > > > Seriously, people on these boards complain about anything and everything ever that's strong. You know why they say velkoz is the definition of balance??? Because he has literally never been meta, and nobody plays him in order to complain he is too weak. So what point does it end then, at what point should we stop listening to this place and ignore it if people are just going to complain anyway no matter what and the circlejerk NEVER ends?

> [{quoted}](name=Automated Riven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3zO7ZZiu,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-08-17T04:30:37.434+0000) > > No. Riot destroyed off builds. AP tristanna was viable (ish) until riot reworked her kit. Same with MF kog ez (probably, I am assuming they remove it with the w update) amoung others. Yeah, and people didn't like playing against it. > Aatrox could have been balanced and fixed without a rework. At least not to the same extent. Simply tweak some abilities. Granted that maybe doesn't apply to sion and poppy. (Poppy's passive and ult absolutely were broken. But they could have kept the spirit of them and left her mostly alone) and either way you tried to push sions ruined someone's gameplay as he was played ap and ad. Altho they could have tried to keep both, or at least one. Which is what they tried for literal 5 years for him...yet continued to be unplayed because the concept of a drain tank in this game doesn't work. There was no way to make Poppy's ultimate not the most broken thing in the game, there wasn't, and besides that, what else was Poppy? an AA enchanced ability, a dash, and her wall charge. They got rid of the AA enchance for something actually useful and her dash got an improvement, and kept her wall charge. A champion who only had two abilities based on if you built him AD or AP, isn't well designed, I'm sorry. > Also all the champs you meantioned were able to be built against. Yi was only good if nobody purchased either banchees or GA. Raka could be played against. She was very short ranged, had relatively low damage unless it was quite a lengthy teamfight. She was also rather unable to hit a ton of members. (effective damage range was like 550) her power was in burst heals. And she was never game warping. Simply a lane bully. Actually she is most comparable to karma. A lane bully who basically has irrelevant damage past 20 minutes. Then why did people bitch, whine, hate and complain about it, the moment it became meta?

> [{quoted}](name=Kythers,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6FyuAQGl,comment-id=0000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-17T04:21:30.695+0000) > > 1) it's a joke making fun of journalists > 2) WoW is a video game, discussing the morality of actions performed by fictional characters is extremely asinine when speaking of characters in a video game who are extremely poorly constructed and represented (this also applies to any League lore) > 4) I don't play WoW Ohhhhhh

> [{quoted}](name=Destaice,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6FyuAQGl,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-17T04:21:31.973+0000) > > Genocidal hot powerful mage mommy gf with badass flying boat > > Vs > > Blonde bimbo who’s only friend is a water elemental I prefer the latter because starting wars only begets more hate.

> [{quoted}](name=Kythers,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6FyuAQGl,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-08-17T04:16:07.034+0000) > > ...and thats a good thing! I think that is the opposite of a good thing but hey, you do you.

Not changing man, you just have to take and know that some people are just assholes and want to ruin it for others.

> [{quoted}](name=Destaice,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6FyuAQGl,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-08-17T04:11:15.298+0000) > > But she’s hot now so it’s a fair trade I don’t think that is how it works in the slightest.

She wants to murder an entire race of people and anyone she doesn’t like.

Toxicity, trolling, feeding will all stop when the human nature changes.

No comment on two since people did have those fun builds that they played with then immediately went into the normal resistance filled pages because they were optimal. One however is just bullshit, people want and liked creativity right until the point where it became meta. We gonna forget the times when AP Sion, Try, Yi, Tristana were things? The times mage Soraka was viable? Because the moment creativity becomes meta, it goes from “Wow, that is funky and neat” to “omg, Riot let’s a champion be uncounterable since you can’t itemize against them” or some other bullshit excuse REAL quick. Three happens out of nessecity. I miss Old Mordekaiser as much as the next main of him but he didn’t work. At what point do you continue to let champions wallow in a state of disuse and unplayability and for how long? Seriously, look at Aatrox, dude sat shit tier for 5 years and only started seeing any play after a broken interaction between his kit and certain items. I’m not saying Riot is perfect, far from, but you can’t ask for some of these things and act like the flip side didn’t happen.

I honestly believe that if Riot wants to balance this game, they need to choose one place and only one place to focus balance around. This balancing in an attempt to make everyone happy mindset just makes everyone pissed.

> [{quoted}](name=Vargrjalmer,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=2NwBTXjN,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-17T00:02:16.896+0000) > > not sure what it is I even need to learn, i have good wave control, back times, i know how to trade with most champions, and capitalize on errors, worked on my macro play like pathing, PINGING, when to do herald, knowing where the jg is, that sort of stuff. Pushing your advantage then, doing things that will actually advance the game to a point where you win, objectives win the game, force them. > like legitimately pinging 8 times that im on my way somewere, and when i get there i see that nobody has responded in the slightest, i ward the buffs and tribushes, let everyone know when i see the jungle, and so on. Stop playing around your team then at that point. > im legitimately lost here, am i just playing the wrong champs or should i just adopt the 1v9 splitpushing mentality that everyone in bronze seems to have. If you have to, yes.

> [{quoted}](name=NøTouchMyADC,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xcK45cHf,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2018-08-16T23:48:20.506+0000) > > Right, the casual player base that makes up roughly 95% of the fanbase that spends money on the game shouldn't be considered when it comes to the balance of a game. When most of them suck too much to actually realize they might just be bad, yes, ignore their balance ideas.

Ah

> [{quoted}](name=moooooooooooo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xcK45cHf,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2018-08-16T22:58:55.713+0000) > > Are you a pro coach or an analyst? Neither, I’m the player who has been here since beta who notice the lower side of the player base sucks and never self reflects and lacks any common sense when it comes to balance. If they lose to something it is NEVER their own fault, it is ALWAYS because what they lose to is OP.

If you can’t get out of bronze, it is because you aren’t good enough yet.

> [{quoted}](name=Cyst,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=MijTtsYl,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-16T21:44:04.435+0000) > > Recently a person posted a topic why he is toxic. > Well let me explain a bit adult insight into it. > > This game in beta had no report option > There was no rank > There was no win/loss record > There was no penalty for leaving > All you saw in game was KDA > After the game was over it was like it never existed > > It was the best game known to man kind. > Everyone joked around enemy and friendly alike competitive talk was all good it was all fun. Because it was brand new, this happens in all new games then when it starts to get popular, out comes the assholes that ruin it for everyone else. > Two people leave game or go afk? Just leave too less than minute later in another game > Someone trolling just leave. > Someone insulting being jerk insult them back. So what, you want people to just leave without consequence, how is that a good idea? > Than Riot had the brilliant idea to implement Win/Loss record. > People complained they didn't want it but Riot used all their great wisdom. > Soon after everyone trolled everyone about their win/loss records I have been here since beta and never seen a single post complaining about win loss ratio? What? > Than the real garbage came ... by garbage I mean all of the scum Death/Rape threats > got flung around and Riot begun the long journey to failure by reacting wrong. > > Riot wanted money bad so they didn't want to just straight up perm ban those people who pushed it too far. > Than warning system so people who shouldn't have been in game still played and got what was known as "worthless warnings" > Cause they didn't ban back than.. so every game you would listen to them swear and cuss insult and threaten you. > Than others would do it in return. To the people the next game and so on and so on. > > At least you could still go afk or leave game right? > Not for long... first came the mouse movement. > > If you didn't move your mouse anywhere in game for period of time you would get marked afk and get timeout > Than came the kill count > Than the more advance system they have used over the last several years now which is mix of everything. > > So where did riot fail? > They failed when they hired game designers who only skill set was playing world of warcraft... o you mean where they fail > With the game itself? I’m confused on what you are even talking about at this point? > 1. Pushing the system beyond just perm removing people breaking the law. What? > 2. Trying to add competitiveness in game the lasts to long which most of it is out of your control. Also what? > 3. Adding stat counters and figures so everyone can look it up on web page to harass and shame. That...wasn’t Riot? That was all the third party developers who did that? > 4. Hiring a failed grad student they ended up firing cause they didn't want lawsuit for using psychobabble on kids. > 5. Being riot > > Who am I? > The person everyone thought was going to be first perm ban back in day cause I told a game designer that is now fired they were wrong. > > What is that top 10% honor in season one of the system icon? > Almost ten years later? What is this entire post?

Would also deny her her only defensive tool

It has no more or less toxic players then other games it is just since the density of players is so high, the chances of you finding one are above average. They will come though, give it time.

See exactly why we should ignore these players when it comes to balancing at ALL?

Their counters are viable, they didn't stop being viable, people especially at low elo are sheep and don't know how to NOT follow the meta.

> [{quoted}](name=ValiantKiller,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9QUtcKrl,comment-id=00000000000000000000000100010001,timestamp=2018-08-16T13:37:17.695+0000) > > Dude i know what his counters, i'm urgot, illaoi and yorick main i know his counter the back of my heart cause i always win lane against Garen it the problem of my low gold elo players who never respect garen missing ping or that if he mark on them to step back what is worst if they just leave my side and just try to force fight on garen. Exactly, hence why their input shouldn't mean anything. They aren't good.

> [{quoted}](name=ValiantKiller,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9QUtcKrl,comment-id=000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-08-16T13:02:31.627+0000) > > Cause if you like it or not, Garen is a problem right now and he is a binary champion that can make comeback in game with his true damage villain thing. > And he one of the simplest champions in this game mean he a good pick for low elo without any direct counter which sucks for them, people in high was able to deal with {{champion:62}} but riot just gutted him for the love of low elo as well. > So why not the same happen to garen ? Because he has always been a problem at low elo, no amount of nerfs is going to make him NOT a problem at low elo, because low elo players are once again bad and are unable and/or unwilling to improve enough to beat such a binary champion. That binary part of his kit perfectly showcases his flaws, the exact same flaws he had for the nine years prior when he was considered a shit champion mind you still apply to this very day. Also, what is this no direct counter bullshit? His direct counters are ranged mobile champions, ie, the exact same champions that beat him 9 years ago. Teemo, Kayle, Vlad, Kennen, Gnar all stomp his teeth in and dismantle his kit to the point where you can literally stop him from farming or doing damage. In fact, here is a video of me beating a Garen so hard he did 24 damage...over an entire game. Game starts at 2:19:00 Can see damage at 2:35:00 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/278250395 > as {{champion:62}} main, he had many easy weaknes that no one in low elo able to use against him including his weak laning and jungling he not able to fight against tankers and juggernauts a good warding against him easy to make him not able to move around freely since he doesn't have permanent hide like Eve neither he able to R on you from out no where like Noc. > Yet riot decide to nerf him to ground cause low elo people can't do any of that, welcome to balance team. > Instead of fixing problem of champions they nerf without thinking. So you are upset that they do this to your champion...but want them to do this to other champions...and don't see how this is a vicious cycle...at all do you?

That is a shame, hopefully this video will light a fire under their asses to help make it easier on content creators like what happened with the practice tool.

What are you talking about, I just spaced poorly, have no armor at all, am a naturally squishy champion, I shouldn't have to play well at all, I should be able to take no damage while building zero defenses and being squishy.

Why should we balance around those players though, they don't understand balance in the slightest and always use the best case scenarios for champions. Seriously, every low elo players complaints about a champion look like this: Whine about a champion's strength Fail to note the mistakes that lead to them getting killed Lie about what really happened Ignore any and all suggestions about beating said champion NEVER mention a single one of the champion's flaws, which everyone champion DOES have Circlejerk QQ Oh, and 99% of the time, said players have NEVER played the champion they are complaining about. Why should we take balance ideas from players like this, because they are the majority, that is how the game got to the current state, when does it end?

That isn't what he said though, he said 0/4 with Tri Force. Yes, if you buy literally only move speed items, in a dream world, Garen will race around the map, silencing and cutting people down with glee. However, since this isn't LoL dream land and Garens don't buy pure MS (except at low elo, where every player who complains about him resides, I wonder if that is a coincidence, nah, it is probably fine.) because they get blown in two trying to walk into a team of five people, and if not blown in two, then CCed down and kept away, because his Q only cleanses current slows...and that is it, so stuns, snares, another slow tend to stop him from doing something. Seriously though, I can't be the only one who notices that the only people who complain about Garen being dumb or too strong ALL happen to be low gold and below right....right?

Why are you letting a 0/4 Garen engage on you freely?

Sorry mate, no one enjoys going on losing streaks, but that is just variance, that is unavoidable.

Pic is safe btw.

But that literally isn't possible though.

> [{quoted}](name=Myrmiron,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JZQwQ2E2,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-08-16T11:41:07.526+0000) > > Pretty sure the DM wouldn't appreciate me telling him to git gud lul. Not the DM, the werewolf, duh.

Should have told that nerd to git gud before gutting him.

But you had 5 wins and 10 losses in the past 2 days?

> [{quoted}](name=wildfox99,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=N5VEp8nA,comment-id=000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-16T11:02:25.636+0000) > > depends by the site since they collect data from limited regions (aka limited data),no one of them is 100% accurate > > anyway i really don't care about numbers because as i said those sites can be really inaccurate,so nvm do as if i never said anything (just wanted to give some info,never wanted to contradict you :/) Contradicting me is fine, just want proof is all, I'm more then man enough to admit when I'm wrong.

> [{quoted}](name=wildfox99,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=N5VEp8nA,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2018-08-16T10:55:06.507+0000) > > 20th champion for win rate https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/diamond/plus/home/ Where are you looking, because this site says 17th 2nd at Plat.