: j4 stopped being relevant after all the mobility creep
Guy was highly relevant all through 2018 Worlds, and there's been only 1 champion release since then
: What's taken the fun out of league for you?
{{champion:59}} he got nerfed incorrectly and everyone else is getting buffs, making him quickly irrelevant
Bloodgam (EUW)
: ***
Anything to have spirit stone back.
Rioter Comments
: All of the changes are necessary. I already deleted my math for all of this, but long story short if you don't make the Q changes then you don't fix the problem with full AD J4. The R changes by itself only reduce full AD J4's damage by 100~ at most. Coupled with the Q changes you're looking at another potential 100~ damage. This won't necessarily kill full AD J4, but will make it so that it's not the go to build for J4. The W changes further push the incentive to play bruiser/tank J4. Again as I've also mentioned, full AD will only be good early and bruiser/tank will scale mid to late. This is how J4 should be, but sadly that's somehow not the case.
I agree that he should be pushed in the direction of building 1/2/3 damage items and the rest tank or hybrid offense/defense items like maw or sunfire or something. I feel like in general he should have lower cooldowns but do less damage, with higher defenses. Maybe in pro play he'd be built like a tank but he'd also be a little easier to play as a fighter in solo queue.
: What if: Q Base DMG 80 + 40 per rank > 80 + 60 per rank Scaling 120% bonus AD > 60% bonus AD Can apply Martial Cadence W Base Shield 60 + 15 per rank > 50% total Armor + 50% total MR Gain 2% + .25% bonus HP as shield > 3% at all ranks R Scaling 150% bonus AD > 80% bonus AD + 10% bonus HP I just like to throw around numbers I'm not too good at them, but I feel as though this would help the J4 situation. This should make it so that full damage is only strong early on and bruiser/tank scales really nicely into mid/late. I didn't take armor/lethality into consideration because I'm too lazy for that. The changes to Q make it so that even with less AD you'll still do near the same damage as someone who's building full AD. The W changes reward you the tankier you are. Everything should be relatively the same with a bruiser based build. It only starts to be much stronger than the flat shield value when you get extremely tanky. The R changes curve damage. You will do more damage as a bruiser/tank than you would with pure damage.
Or, at least, the ult change would make his bruiser and damage build deal COMPARABLE damage, which is really all you're looking for.
: > [{quoted}](name=iPooUnicorns,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WU5s1NGX,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-13T17:02:07.567+0000) > > Ah I read "You could litterally tone down his bases and scaling and improve his shield " part wrong. > > The problem with nerfing his damage and buffing his shield is it makes bruiser builds like {{item:3071}} {{item:3748}} almost as bad as full damage builds. > > Even worse would be the "Nidhogg" Jarvan build more obnoxious. The build essentially pairs Grasp of the Undying with W max while building almost full tank, which makes it virtually impossible to trade against him in lane, or even fight him until late game. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1-tYVKqpYA Maybe I'm insane, but I don't see the problem with this. J4 is noticeably ahead, building pure tank, and fighting multiple strings of weakened enemies 1 by 1. Pretty much any beefy / tanky champ could have done the same stuff, though j4 is EXTREMELY sticky, which means most of them wouldn't have been able to pursue Nami past the bubble. Either way, no one dies quickly to him, and there's plenty of idiocy / misplays which lead him to get all those kills.
Additionally, the addition of conqueror has made a lot of champs that j4 would actually be able to edge out in an auto war to the death unable to deal with... I think the Cleaver/Titanic combo is PERFECTLY reasonable to deal with given that a lot of those champs straight up dick him in lane anyway.
: Can you decide wether J4 is a diver or a oneshot bot?
PREACH MY GUY. That fucking armor nerf didn't address the problems people had with Jarvan AT ALL. He still is frustrating to play against when he's ahead, and he's not a very good bruiser unlike a lot of divers. His tank builds are interesting to play against at least and require decent skill to maximize his potential, but he's ALWAYS GETTING DEFENSE NERFS. Give him his armor back and take away some of his damage/ratios. Jesus christ. Furthermore, a lot of people are suggesting the same thing... cut the scaling on his ult and Q and add base damage, then buff his defenses back so that he's a bruiser ALL GAME rather than an assassin early and a tank late... it's not fitting of his character fantasy AT ALL. This particular subject pisses me off... I have way too many points on Jarvan
kargish (EUW)
: Kha'zix is currently everything assassins have been reworked away from
Don't think Rengar is who we're to hold up as the "See? Why aren't they like X" when they're guilty of a lot worse
: New Dev Team vs Old Dev Team
My favorite is how they'll often just find a way to sharpen the weaknesses of a champion so much that it outweighs their strengths... there's a couple times where this happens.
: @Riot: Leona is the latest champ you've "Sejuani'd" and it's time to fix it.
Welcome to the club {{champion:59}} continues to be balanced around being a 1 shot assassin rather than hitting what was wrong with him, dude is absolutely horrendous to play rn
: I love how everyone ignores jannas Q mechanics when arguing about her.
Because by and large it's a relatively unimportant spell. It's not utilized in lane other than to panic CC an engaging tank or jungler, and in fights it's extensive range often rarely comes in handy. It's the potential power loaded into her E and the amount of damage a Summon Aery/Scorch W does that really does people in during lane
Fefnil (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=hhaavviikk,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fXm1fUdw,comment-id=000700000002,timestamp=2018-04-09T17:22:39.111+0000) > > to win the game you need to protect the ADC And that's exactly what needs to be changed in this game.
LMAO hit the nail right on the head
: HEr E is like an 18 second cd lv 1, and for her W to do damage, it means she's putting points to W instead of E, so there's the opportunity cost
Yeah but it's length and strength mean that that's all you need, you can just use its potential and allow your AD to stand between their minions and them, zoning them
: I would rather her have some aggression in the game rather than just spam e on adc.
Except she does both with little opportunity cost
Nobody wants to fight for their right to party anymore. Everyone gives up too early. EVERYONE is an ape. They can throw. At least test the unlikely waters... you'll find you'll win games sometimes that seemed extremely unlikely.
Venompaw (NA)
: I come to a realization: I hate supports that do no damage.
Yeah having that Brand is really cool until the Zed kills not only you but then jukes all of Brand's skillshots and autos you to death. There's a time and place for every support.... not that Brand should be a support, but, you know
: And what exactly am i supposed to do in games like these?
Why? The other AD with more farm is just gonna kill them anyway
Auryiel (NA)
: Assassins are absolute cancer. Why? Because outside of the jungle, they literally cannot function properly while being somewhat healthy. Seriously please show me an assassin that is better designed than Eve or Kayn right now. Here's what an assassin who goes mid needs 1) Mobility, which more often than not translates into an escape due to how team fights work. No one wants a suicide bomber, the goal's not to make the team fight a 4v4, it's to make it a 5v4 2) Burst, this one is self-explanatory, they're assassins 3) Waveclear, because without it they'll just be pushed to their turret all game and do nothing And the problems lie with numbers 1 and 3. 1) It is completely unfair when a character who can instantly kill you should you make a mistake or get ganked has access to a safe escape. But because they need to be even remotely functionnal in team fights, they have it in lane. The only solution would be to tie literally every assassin's escape to their ult, which limits the devs' creativity a lot. 3) There is no way in hell you can justify an assassin having waveclear that is even remotely on par with the average mage's. Whenever assassins do have access to good waveclear, they are oppresive and overpowered as fuck, like KZ back in season 2 or Zed whenever he's good. They clear waves, stay equal in farm and are able to roam. Mages cannot easily follow an assassin that is roaming because if they get caught 1v1 they're dead. If the assassin has good waveclear and is balanced/weak, then that champion either lacks true assassin capabilities, like say Ahri who's a mage-assassin hybrid, or their numbers are simply too low. And so here we are, with assassins more often than not being either OP or UP, frustrating as shit or dreadfully underwhelming. They and bruisers are by far the most difficult classes to balance because they are usually in a state where they either lack exploitable weaknesses or their weaknesses are fucking glaring. Tanks don't do a lot of damage, mages are low mobility and low-ish defensive capabilities, supports need to enable someone else, ADCs are/should be squishy and *SHOULD* lack burst. I think jungler assassins are a lot better simply because they do what assassins should be doing, roaming, without having the need for overbearing safety and waveclear that their class should not have access to. That being said most assassin kits do not lend themselves well to the jungle, unfortunately. I long to see a League of Legends where Zed's waveclear is gutted but he's still viable, but I'm not sure how you can make that happen and clearly neither is Riot. So we'll just keep riding the nerfs-and-buffs train till we get to a point where you're not allowed to blind pick a mage ever. Hooray!
: > [{quoted}](name=Rayjay Redfang,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BH0p1IzO,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-03-20T18:48:14.695+0000) > > I saw. I feel like people are going to use this as a cornestone for evidence that the game is going downhill, but I think NB3 is more just burnt out. It is basically his job to play league where as the rest of us go home from our jobs to play league. > > I read that people said that he quit lol before, so maybe he will take some time off and come back later. Better people have tried using the 'burn out' -excuse. When a guy is able to stream / create content for the same game for years without burning out, and suddenly, just as MORE PEOPLE come out with the same opinion as him, quits - that's not the case. NEWS FLASH, they're quitting because the game's become OBJECTIVELY WORSE for non-newbie players!
> [{quoted}](name=NorthernRedStar,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BH0p1IzO,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2018-03-20T18:58:19.059+0000) > > Better people have tried using the 'burn out' -excuse. When a guy is able to stream / create content for the same game for years without burning out, and suddenly, just as MORE PEOPLE come out with the same opinion as him, quits - that's not the case. > > NEWS FLASH, they're quitting because the game's become OBJECTIVELY WORSE for non-newbie players! I don't think it's getting better for new players either
: I Didnt Belive At First.. But The People In Silver Are Garbage
: Nautilus has been bottom tier top and support for too long
No no no. Didn't you hear? It's tanky DPS champions' time right now. {{champion:77}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:2}} Oh yeah and right when they think it's their time to carry, it becomes 20 minutes {{item:3031}} {{item:3087}} {{item:3094}} Your champion has no place in 2018 League of Legends.
: You mean the Fortnite meta?
I like that, like the meta sucks so bad that it makes people play fortnite
: We haven't forgotten, it's just a larger project than one that we could build and ship super quickly. We had a few things that we got into testing relatively quickly, but they mainly just made jungling feel exceptionally bad. It accomplished our goals of slowing junglers down early, but at the expense of how the role felt, what power they brought to the table, and when in the game they'd feel powerful. Rather than rush it out we opted to take a step back and look at the jungle more holistically to see what else we can shake up that will both resolve some of the early jungle pressure feeling, while also giving the junglers something to feel excited about. Hoping that we find something, and when we have a promising direction we'll be sure to talk about it.
I think a big part of the problem is electrocute. Junglers that utilize electrocute have always been at the apex of champs that are very irritating to play against. Champs like J4 and Kha'Zix take electrocute and are allowed to do half of a champion's health with a single combo. It can be highly irritating to play against, especially as a level 2 laner against a level 3 jungler with doubles. I think electrocute is really, really strong early and its high damage at low levels combined with things like sudden impact giving 10 lethality at level 1 make for really, really painful level 3 ganks from champs that are already very good early game. I think the domination tree is at the root of a lot of the reason people feel like early game junglers are absurd.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Squishie,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=K7ThGIQo,comment-id=000000000003,timestamp=2018-03-12T10:14:37.371+0000) > > syndra {{champion:134}} was gutted into non-existence and is pretty much an auto-loss now.
Legit just picked in LCS by Bjerg who absolutely embarrassed motherfuckers on it
: Wukong compensation on DB nerf
He's not an assassin even though his awful kit has forced him to be. Rework will hopefully fix that
: I like losing games after I get ganked 8 times, twice by the enemy shen support, before 12 minutes.
ZJD123 (NA)
: New Poll: Who should Riot nerf for 8.6?
Rioter Comments
: Can we start giving fighters more total AD ratios instead of Bonus AD ratios
I agree 100%. This would allow us to more easily define playstyles for given champs. I personally think Build Diversity as an idea is doodoo. Rune and Champ diversity is about all you can do before you start stepping on some champs' toes. Champs like J4 are supposed to be fighters, not Duskblade of Draktharr nuke bot then die champions.
: J4 and Zhonya's
Barkley (NA)
: Wtf is jarvans run animation
I think the propping the lance on his shoulder looks so labored and makes him look so weak. He's not ready for combat at all
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Our take is that Jarvan's pretty much always the right choice in the jungle at present, given combination of his numerical power and range of tools/flexibility he brings (engage, early power, duels fairly well, can burst, lot of build flexibility, disengage etc). Play rate by contrast isn't something we use as an indicator of whether or not a champ should be buffed or nerfed (though it can be a good indicator that a champion should be investigated). Champs with high play rates can still need buffs (fun and cool themes so people play them regardless even if they're weak). Champs with low play rates can be too strong (niche or poor theme, kit not so fun, still overpowered when picked even if less people do so because most people don't pick off power alone)..
I believe Jarvan to be balanced incorrectly. You guys haven't selected a role for this champion. I think his role belongs as a tanky fighter, but allowing him to keep absolutely absurd AD ratios and things such as the 100% splash damage on ult is what makes him an AD assassin as well as a reasonable tank. The assassin Jarvan nonsense is simply not going to be balanced ever and it's ridiculous that this champion is allowed to realize this kind of fantasy both from the perspective of his character function and his lore. To be quite clear, balancing him around electrocute is stupid. He's not an assassin, and that's an assassin keystone. A couple things I want to see done: - Cataclysm damage needs to have its bonus AD ratio decreased AND/OR the damage to targets not selected by the ultimate should fall from 100% to 50%. - MAKE CATACLYSM DISAPPEAR INSTANTLY if Jarvan dies. What I see in pro games is a cheesy electrocute assassin with a warrior and a locket who gets a big five man ult but gets blown to pieces, while his targets still stay contained for 3.5 seconds. REWARD JARVAN FOR BEING TANKY. - Dragon Strike Bonus AD ratio needs to come down, IN EXCHANGE for slightly reduced cooldown and/or mana costs. He should be balanced around his base damages and his passive and utilization of the titanic/cleaver combo instead of being balanced around duskblade of draktharr. His gameplay pattern is actually one of the more healthy in the game, but I'm very tired of seeing a champion design as a fighting tank be turned into an assassin with an on command shield and a cataclysm. Reward Jarvan for building to stay alive rather than building to kill people. The build I've been using with aftershock and precision second has been much healthier, as it allows me to stay alive and do Jarvan things without being a one shot assassin, a fantasy that a guy in armor who leads his army simply should never be. Let him scrap and force him in the tank direction. Keep his moderately decent dueling and tankiness in exchange for his extreme burst damage.
: Please don't give Graves a 70% slow on his Smokescreen
Durzaka (NA)
: Apparently balanced means having a 45% win rate. Good to know.
It actually very much does, given the potential he puts in the hands of a decent player. Anything over 47% is absolutely batshit crazy for a champ like Yasuo
: That Jhin Buff on the pbe is actually a nerf in disguise
Well, I think about it like this The current ratio of slow to the allowable interval between shots is exactly .5/1. This next patch it will be .75/1.25. That ratio now favors the slow a little bit. I think this is a buff.
: Ranked is such a degenerate and soul draining experience. I quit.
League of Legends is truly the human experience. There's laughter, sorrow, regret, humiliation, triumph, teamwork, dissent, disagreement all rolled into one package. It's a wild ride. Get back out there boy
: Runes reforged is replacing runes AND masteries
you're not good at this
Rioter Comments
: but wukong already brings the best dueling power in early game? who can outduel this bullshit champ at lvl 3?
This has to be sarcastic I really hope it is
abdul569 (EUW)
: How would people feel if we remove items that give ADCs their AoE?
While I get all this, and this is a well structured thread with a good idea... Don't insult my intelligence by listing graves as anything other than a piece of shit
: > The generalist jungler used to be Lee. Then it was J4. Then it was Gragas. That doesn't exactly support your point that "when there are no generalists, the game naturally finds new generalists", no. Lee, J4 and Gragas are all generalists (see "we have too many generalists" in previous posts). And so people only played the best among the three, which depends on Balance Patch (see "as soon as you have more than 1 generalist, people only play the best one").
Generalist junglers are there to be picked when a specialist doesn't always fit. If you want a car, do people ask "Well do you want an F-150 or do you want a 2 seater BMW?" You're asking the person to choose between extremes when extremes don't always work out in a game like League where a lot of things are constant from champion to champion. The fact is that the game needs generalists. Champions should fall into a spectrum rather than a bin that says what they are. You're gonna get generalists when you're trying to cater to every archetype and fantasy. That's just how it is Getting back to the original reply, we should probably rework a lot of our enchanters to require skill and actually dance on the outskirts of fights with relatively limited range. There's straight up no reason for Janna to get close to a fight unless to R. Nami, while fairly long ranged, must at least be near the fight.
: 1. If a champ has a real weakness, a real lack of something, it can't become the new generalist, however hard the game tries to find new ones. 2. That part about rock/paper/scissors is very true, and that's why I didn't say "no generalist", I said "less generalists". We're far from having no generalists in this game, and if the situation needs to change, it's in the "less" direction, but we still have a big margin before we arrive at "no generalist at all".
Really? The generalist jungler used to be {{champion:64}}. Then it was {{champion:59}}. Then it was {{champion:79}}. There's too many people that are good at the game and use some of the game's strict rules about how champions work to determine who the BEST champion is. The Pro Scene and higher level solo queue has done this since time immemorial. Remember that time when "You could pick anything! The game was truly GREAT." Most people call that Season 1, back when a lot of different shit was completely broken and a lot of mechanics, overlapping champions, and items didn't exist. We were also a lot dumber than we are now and we know a lot about metas and champions since then.
VanaQuish (EUNE)
: Overtuned? So having awesome synergy means to be overtuned?
When certain interactions like Cho'Gath R appear in game which just exploit certain things like True Damage not being subject to damage reduction and an entire meta of engage tanks taking it in order to engage freely or without precision or by spotting a proper flank, then yes, I'd say that's overtuned.
: ADCs have been slowly powercreeped since the beginning of LoL. That's why they're a problem.
awdaf (NA)
: Why was Stoneplate created in the first place?
It was meant for teamfighting fighters or tanks to have some kind of item that helped them use their engagement without being blown to pieces instantaneously. Great thought on paper, overtuned in game.
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