: > 1) Punishment notifications are VERY rare. There is no correlation with notifications vs punishments being handed out. Assuming that somebody got away with something because you weren't notified is incorrect. Is this true? Because I get a lot of notifications. And the guy who reported me in the chat game above added me as a friend and said "So I see you got punished, enjoy scrub"
Oh it's 100% true, and you can find it repeated countless times across the boards.
: (Unbanned) Daily Reminder that Prestige Aatrox is a $115 skin.
PavLoo (NA)
: They asked me about my nationality, and I'm not scared to say im from Poland, because I'm glad that I'm polish.
I've literally never been asked about my nationality. It's not like your English is poor.
PavLoo (NA)
: Are polish players really that bad?
People fixate on things to fuck with. They could do so with any nationality. How exactly are they finding out that you're Polish? Doesn't seem like something that would come up organically.
: Bullshit ban
"But he started it" wasn't a good excuse on the playground growing up, so why should it be a good excuse now?
: Let me know if this was a justified Ban
On January fifth, you appear to have received a two-week ban, which would have explicitly stated that it was your final warning before a perma ban. That ban ended on January 19th. Today, January 20th, you spent a full chat log insulting your teammate's performance. Some frustration would have probably been passable, but you insulted him enough times to reasonably call it harassment, and even if you don't agree with that interpretation, it's incredible to me that you'd engage in this behavior so soon after your final warning was given. So yes, justified ban.
: For a 10-game restriction, not really worth it. By the time they look at it, I'll be out of the doghouse. It's just dumb. I barely ever talk in games anymore because I know how awful the system is at detecting player behavior. I only chat, as in the above, when someone is actively and intentionally throwing. Otherwise I mute my whole team at login and play music.
Bad strategy to have. Intentional feeding is a variation of trolling, which is done to elicit an anger response from you and others. When you flame trolls, you're actively rewarding them for their behavior. You're hurting everybody but them when you do this.
: Why is verbal conduct punished so much more harshly than leaving/inting?
A few basic things wrong with your interpretation of events here: 1) Punishment notifications are VERY rare. There is no correlation with notifications vs punishments being handed out. Assuming that somebody got away with something because you weren't notified is incorrect. 2) Inting is punished MORE harshly than verbal conduct, with a minimum punishment of a two-week ban and maximum of a perma. 3) Gameplay-related offenses such as inting often take a manual review, since it's difficult to interpret intent by score alone. There's a backlog of games requiring review, so this can take several days. Justice, in the case of inting, is not swift.
: A? Not S- or higher?
You had less than 5 cs/minute. Any time you think you earned an S but didn't, it's almost always going to be a matter of not getting high enough CS. Conversely, with very good CS (say, 8-11 per minute), you can earn an S without having nearly as good a KDA. CS is important.
bogi2050 (EUW)
: Well what I'm talking about is to give all people a 2nd chance.
It wouldn't be a second chance, though. The final chance is the two-week ban. Adding another chance on top of that is just arbitrary. Anybody who earns a ban is given an explicit final warning already.
Jinto (OCE)
: Honor Capsules (imo) don't actually give enough 'stuff' to incentivize good behavior
: I'ma tell you the same thing I told another guy. There's a difference between having restrictions forced upon you, and voluntarily accepting them. I HIGHLY doubt that somebody that VOLUNTARILY muted themselves, is going to do something like feed, or AFK.
Then look up the instructions to unbind your enter key or hide your chat box and impose this restriction upon yourself. You don't have to wait for Riot to make it easy for you.
: Because you can't uncheck it once the game starts. If anything, after a prolonged period of continually muting yourself, and being unable to type in chat once the game starts, would help players achieve more self control. Eventually, down the line, they might not have to check the box anymore before the game starts. Also, I just couldn't help myself. If I hate you, I want you to know, and feel it for every second I'm stuck in a game with you. However, even I find it tiring after awhile, having to convince guys to buy me skins, just to do the whole manipulation process all over again when I find out my account has been perma'd, again. Rest assured, if I had the option, I'd honestly, positively, truly mute myself before each game.
You can't uncheck it after the game starts, but you can play one game where you can't flame and say "fuck that" and uncheck it for the next, or you can just fuck with your fellow players in other ways such as trolling. And I'm sorry, the fuck you talking about manipulating people into buying you skins?
: As Somebody Who's Been Perma'd 8 Times, Here's How To Stop Toxicity
This isn't the first time such an option has been suggested, but I continue to be skeptical of what it would accomplish in practice. You already have the option to simply choose not to partake in chat, but you've ignored that option enough to get banned 7-10 times. Would giving you a box to check have prevented those bans? Maybe you would have made use of it briefly, but even with full knowledge of what you were doing and how it would affect you, you continued to break the rules and continued to get banned over and over. So what's stopping you from simply unchecking the box?
bogi2050 (EUW)
: EUW Unban experiment
They only used a select sample in NA anyway. Odds are, even if they did start the same experiment in EUW, your friends still wouldn't be part of it.
: No no no, I have no burden of anything. We didn't get paid. We just tested the standards for ourselves and gave you the shorthand of our results. If you don't like what I've presented on a public forum then you can feel free to disagree without testing it yourself. But i suggest you test it
What does payment have to do with anything? We're just asking for you to demonstrate anything at all. Otherwise this is bad science.
: Umbral Your entire response is an ad-hominem based on your opinions and the fact you don't trust my statement. How about you go test it You sound like a volunteer yes man ps--- I've read dozens and dozens of questionable chat logs myself, leading to my test, go do it yourself.
The burden of proof is on you. You're arguing against the common understanding of how things work, including the explicit statements made by Riot. If you want this to be taken seriously, show your work. We won't take your word for it. That's not an ad-hominem attack in any way.
: Player behavior.
It's because you're playing co-op vs AI games. AI games are plagued with bots, for the purpose of leveling new accounts to sell with minimal effort. Bots can range from being borderline AFK to having rudimentary skills in the game. To an experienced player, a new player may be mistaken for a bot in AI games. There's no malice in it, they just made a faulty assumption. As to the kill stealing, experienced players will sometimes play vs AI for stress relief and just run around styling on bots. It happens. You won't have any risk to your account for erroneous reports, as others have said.
Kanzler (NA)
: Perhaps your memory is that faulty, but mine isn't quite so far gone.
Kanzler (NA)
: Of course I did.
Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. I forget to report all the time.
Kanzler (NA)
: Considering the process is completely automated and scans text, at least so riot implies, after a report, there is no reason for such inconsistency.
That's only one facet of the system. Did anybody report the player in question? Did they select the correct report criteria? Did the automated system for one reason or another request a manual review? Plenty of things can go wrong.
Kanzler (NA)
: Confirmed: You get 1 free "Zero-Tolerance Word" without facing punishment.
Confirmed: The system is occasionally inconsistent. Your assertion is unscientific at best.
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=HENApHJQ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-19T01:55:35.536+0000) > > I probably posted this on that old post too; sometimes people just change their minds (maybe you made a convincing argument) and don't want to continue having people comment against a position they no longer hold, or maybe even if they haven't changed their mind they've realized that defending it is not worth the stress, and other times the thread is being derailed or they made some mistakes in the post which is causing people to focus on an unintended point. > > There are many reasons why someone may choose to delete their own post, and those who do so in a malicious or abusive manner really aren't that common (and moderation can intervene if they have a habit of this). I believe for most reasons, they should retain this right to remove their own post regardless of the other user's activity on it. In that case they can just request that it be locked and a moderator can then do just that. While I understand your arguments I personally agree that normal people shouldn't be allowed to delete their own threads, as more often than not it's used to get rid of evidence of ones own (usually poor) behavior, at least in my experience anyways.
: I've always taken a post deletion to indicate an overwhelming victory for me. A notification would be nice.
I suppose that's a mentally healthy way of interpreting it. It's not necessarily about winning or losing, though. Somebody putting valuable research and insight into a post only for another non-mod forumgoer to delete it is detrimental to productive discussion. Last time I brought this subject up, it was because several of Tantram's posts about the then-new honor system had been deleted in this fashion.
Kei143 (NA)
: Your main position?
50/50 support top, but for this poll I'll say support. Top is what got me to gold, though.
Ulanopo (NA)
: I write on a couple of high-profile political sites and none of them prevent me from deleting a thread I started. One does prohibit any deleting or change to comments, for much the same reasons you mention here. I also don't know how well this would sit with the average boards user, even if we had the tech resources to make it happen, which I'm not sure we do.
So you spark an interesting discussion or debate with one of your threads, and then just hold the right to eliminate that discussion or debate at any time? If that's the case, does that sit well with you? Are you comfortable with others holding that power over you any time you join one of their threads? I don't think it would be a big technical issue at all. Remove the "delete" button, bam, done. If somebody wants to delete their own posts, they can edit it into nothingness.
: I probably posted this on that old post too; sometimes people just change their minds (maybe you made a convincing argument) and don't want to continue having people comment against a position they no longer hold, or maybe even if they haven't changed their mind they've realized that defending it is not worth the stress, and other times the thread is being derailed or they made some mistakes in the post which is causing people to focus on an unintended point. There are many reasons why someone may choose to delete their own post, and those who do so in a malicious or abusive manner really aren't that common (and moderation can intervene if they have a habit of this). I believe for most reasons, they should retain this right to remove their own post regardless of the other user's activity on it.
Own post, sure. Entire thread, no.
Dr Dog (NA)
: what if its a vent post you had second thoughts about? what if they changed their mind in general? what if they feel the post quility dropped and want it gone? theres nothing wrong with deleting something you yourself posted and pretty much no one has a problem with it
By all means, retain the ability to delete your own post. But the entire thread?
: 0/16/1 at 19min "just a bad game"
It probably was inting. Did they not get punished? I can't find the player in your match history.
Rioter Comments
: > mlm olo mlm (NA) - 41 minutes ago > AH! You are correct. There. Now you have seen me post a non-antagonistic post.
: I'm suggesting that Jo0o is making up random numbers in an attempt to libel me.
I wouldn’t stake anything on 90% being accurate, but every time I see your name it’s accompanying a post that’s antagonistic towards one person or another.
Tom Keen (NA)
: Perma ban system
“Expressing discontent” won’t trigger a punishment unless it’s consistent enough to be considered harassment.
: And if I go AD I die in 1.3 sec by Twitch, and I see it 5 sec later because of the ping problem. If I go tank, they need 3 or 4 sec to kill me, even with disconnect, that gives my team valuable time to do something.
But you’re sivir, so unless you’re dealing damage they can and should just ignore you.
: I spend 90% of my time breaking the forum rules and don't get punished. Sounds like the moderators are being overly friendly.
: Justice, how I love it
I don’t understand how going tank on sivir helps anything. Even underfed, you’d provide valuable waveclear with a couple items.
: So I looked into this for you. There are a few things here. I'll start with the our-fault stuff: * That was definitely too blunt of a dismissal: if you're pulled into a pullroom, you should at least get a reason for why you are being removed. I'm going to inquire about that. * You did receive a message from a moderator that included a punishment but said it wasn't one. That's a copy/paste error on our end, ultimately, but I think we should respect the message we send. * You did apparently receive a heads up that the punishment would be reduced, but it was not. I'm going to try to find out why, 'cause that's a big miss and I don't want that to occur again. That said, you're slightly misrepresenting the situation here. ~~I'm not finding any record of threats aside from a request to stop pinging the **board-violation-inquiries** channel repeatedly.~~ (Addendum: I was mistaken here). Doing so can indeed be grounds for removal from Discord, whereas waiting will let someone get around to you when they are able (we're a volunteer team, and this is why it can take a while to get through to someone -- we all have other jobs or responsibilities). You can also always specifically request escalation to a Herald -- this punishment was overturned with our input once we were aware of the *entire* situation, and almost certainly would have been sooner had we been made aware of it here or on Discord. My Discord messages, for example, are always open. Specifically requesting one of us lets us know there may be some complicating factors and we should handle it personally. But yeah -- ultimately, this was a miss on our end due to a few mistakes that all slipped through in one case. My apologies for that. That said: >Less moderator "power". Can't abuse powers you don't have. We couldn't do our job with less available powers, and the Herald team *and* Riot both serve as oversight to monitor potential issues. I have not yet see an "abuse of power" that we haven't handled though -- often things that someone considers an abuse of power is just an honest mistake, a miscommunication, or, frankly, them disagreeing with a rule. >More diverse moderator "culture". Get some "non-band wagon" opinions. We have a lot of that, actually. Internal debates on a number of topics are fairly lively and opinionated. Simply because we tend to try to enforce rules the same way doesn't mean there isn't a diverse culture, or disagreement about some of those rules. This is true at all levels of the team, from the moderators to the Herald team. >Some sort of public accountability for moderator actions. The problem here is that people normally want to see punishment (which we can't really do, as we're a volunteer team) or for people to be kicked off the team (which we don't do for minor mistakes). Public announcements of internal discussion/conversations/warnings aren't productive either, as they just create a naming & shaming situation and make every action that moderator takes suddenly be contested, even when perfectly acceptable. There is internal accountability and sometimes accountability on the boards (people can make threads here, for example). >Reporting misbehavior to the one misbehaving is not going to work. Again, feel free to tag in @Herald specifically. We *do* investigate everything brought to our attention, and we don't have a uniform opinion, so we discuss anything that looks controversial. It's our job to provide oversight for the rest of the moderation team, and we have frequently overturned punishments we have deemed incorrectly applied, and have had conversations with moderators about any problematic patterns we see in their actions. If the issue is with a Herald in particular, we defer to the rest of the Herald team and pull in our Riot contacts. >They will just delete the evidence while the public is left completely clueless. We don't actually delete evidence, save when cleaning up #board-violation-inquiries as is normal for that channel. All other Discord content is preserved, and all deleted threads remain visible to the entire moderation team and Riot, and we're not okay with legitimate concerns presented in appropriate manners being removed. --------------------------------------------- In short, we acknowledge that moderation is not (and never will be) perfect or 100% consistent. A team of humans never will be, and a team of volunteers makes it even harder to reach perfection. We're happy to take critique and feedback, but I do think the accusations of deleting evidence and abusing power you lay out here are misplaced.
I humbly submit that you guys could very reasonably be a lot more blunt.
Vegito101 (EUNE)
: What could he say that even Tantram got scared???n word in combination with f word in combination with with kys word ...
I assume personal information that Riot can’t reiterate.
: Honors have absolutely nothing to do with role. Play well, most people just give them out to who "carried", if you do some big save you are also very likely to get it. It's far from unfair though.
I mean, to OP's credit, it's generally harder to carry as support, and therein lies the rub. As a support main, I find that making big plays or having a great laning phase are often enough to get a few honors, especially from grateful ADCs. But as I said below, honors don't actually matter much beyond getting your pre-game flairs.
: check point system unfair to support mains
Honors hardly matter. I play constantly with premades, which means that the honors I receive from them are virtually worthless, but my honor level is just fine. It's infinitely more important to avoid getting validly reported.
: reach out to the Boards Moderation Team via: The NA Boards Discord
They're people. When you spend 90% of your time insulting a group of people, don't expect them to go out of their way to be friendly to you.
Aladoron (EUW)
: So you want other people suffer serious brain damage (seeing a "kys" written), just because YOU want to shotcall. It's pretty selfish in my opinion...
: > [{quoted}](name=Jo0o,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=s3yJ8KA5,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-16T20:09:55.532+0000) > > There is plenty you can’t communicate with pings. You may not utilize chat that way, but I do. Why should I lose a tool because other people can’t control themselves? what are you talking about lose a tool? This is an optional thing
If a portion of players preemptively opt-out of chat, folks like me can no longer have a reasonable expectation of our teammates receiving our communication.
: > [{quoted}](name=Jo0o,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=s3yJ8KA5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-16T19:27:55.266+0000) > > Implementing this punishes players who intend to shotcall via chat, and in doing so would radically devalue the chat system as a whole. ping system way more effective than typing. you dont need to type anything to shot call
There is plenty you can’t communicate with pings. You may not utilize chat that way, but I do. Why should I lose a tool because other people can’t control themselves?
: All you do is read one sentence and go mad. You're just a terrible guy. Sorry that I say that. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7ub5j2/shouldnt_the_punishment_for_toxicity_be_a_perma/ edit: my conclusion is it looks like a business model maybe it is maybe it's not but they haven't done a thing in 5+ years. Riot can't admit this of course
I’m not mad, I’m annoyed. Why won’t you take responsibility for your own actions?
: > [{quoted}](name=Jo0o,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=cTEp4ns1,comment-id=000000030000,timestamp=2019-01-16T19:12:12.923+0000) > > Treat fellow players with respect So you agree that criticizing someone's decision-making is disrespect? Pointing out someone's flaws and offering suggestions on improving is disrespect? Helping people get better at the game is disrespect? Because those are examples of reasons you could be punished under the system.
Depends how you do it. Criticism can be respectful or disrespectful, and virtually all the ban complaints I see involve the latter kind.
: All I want is them to add client sided option to "disable your ability to chat" and when you get muted X amount of games you get a message from riot saying: " you can disable your ability to chat in the options if you choose to do so" this is a calm approach. It will help 100%. It would be nice if they reconsider their permanent banned people for talking from years ago. When they make this change because there should've been a option for this since the beginning of league. I know there's a line between "talking bad/sh*tty" and threatening somebody with dox/real life stuff. They should only reconsider unbanning people that talked "bad" if they ever add this option because otherwise it would just be unfair. Of course every game learns by trial and error, maybe it's a business model maybe not? If it's not they have to add this option.
Why are you spamming an ancient thread? Make your own. It’s an idea that’s been refuted countless times, though.
: post game muting? Why no mute option in menu?
Implementing this punishes players who intend to shotcall via chat, and in doing so would radically devalue the chat system as a whole.
: No what you say is called overgeneralizing. I totally agree that people who intentionally feed, go afk or some other form of in-game 'trolling' need to get punished for that, but does that mean that somebody who uses their keyboard to write something "bad" deserves the same punishment? Losing their account permanently? On other good MMO's like WoW and RuneScape the game masters treat those 2 things differently. 1 is bannable and the other is muteable. I really believe this is how Riot created their increasingly toxic environment. You can't imagine losing your main for years for some "talking" until it's happened to you. They don't care about age or about how much effort/money you spent on the game. I lost my account back in early 2013 and I was 13 at the time. 5+ years later they still haven't added a way for people to disable the chat/enter key and addressing this to people. People have to come up with this themselves and that's when it's too late 99/100 times. You permanently lost your account for some bad talking. It's just inhumane almost. Especially for gamers like me who grew up with games like RuneScape and being so young. They literally don't care and aren't up for debate. It just looks like a business model at this point: buy XP boosts, IP boosts, skins, champs, icons, wards. You can buy those things allllll over again. And what I think about that is: sure Riot. Cya never again. and so I did. I quit for 4+ years. What happened to the game? Became more toxic, but it also made way more money. Their plan works. Why would they change it? In the end it's a company. ;) I don't suggest anyone who likes typing/playing other MMO's where you don't get perma for typing to play league. It's not worth it. I learned that early on and sadly realized it later. I would highly appreciate it if they unbanned my main from 2013 but I know it won't happen, because they're doing totally fi$$$$ne F {{item:3070}} I know I'm not the only one with this story. Thanks for reading. EDIT: here is a link that proves my point "im not alone" https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7ub5j2/shouldnt_the_punishment_for_toxicity_be_a_perma/
It’s not a business model, it’s a basic fucking rules system. Treat fellow players with respect or get escalating punishments culminating in a perma ban. Rather than digging up my posts from six months ago, take a look at your own behavior and make positive changes. Stop blaming others.
Aladoron (EUW)
: BeCaUsE It's sOo mUcH EaSiEr tO CaTcH, hUrR-DuRr! - Rito
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Jo0o

Level 79 (NA)
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