Lyseth (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Joxcab,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v2PAfTmi,comment-id=00000000000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-28T00:55:34.514+0000) > > Was just asking why you were wasting time posting spam if you didn't care like your post stated. But eh, whatever. My point being, SO WHAT if they make that happen? the ult needs SOME KIND of drawback.
Why does the ultimate need a drawback? If you got hit by R1 and you were low enough for R2 to be activated, it's your fault for getting yourself into that situation. If you're the Braum and you voluntarily chose to save them, then they get saved as a result of your sacrifice. What more does it need?
Lyseth (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Joxcab,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v2PAfTmi,comment-id=000000000002000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-28T00:52:09.834+0000) > > I'm referring to the "So... I'm supposed to care" being complete spam and meaningless and offering no contribution to the topic at hand. And you addressing it is contributing?
Was just asking why you were wasting time posting spam if you didn't care like your post stated. But eh, whatever.
Lyseth (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Joxcab,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v2PAfTmi,comment-id=0000000000020000,timestamp=2017-07-28T00:07:27.381+0000) > > If you don't care then why post spam in the first place? Am I even post spamming? I was simply saying how his ult worked, besides, saying I'm spamming atm is rather narrow minded, don't you think?
I'm referring to the "So... I'm supposed to care" being complete spam and meaningless and offering no contribution to the topic at hand.
Nebuul (NA)
: In my humble opinion, the chains should not be able to be blocked. There was an opportunity to block Urgot's *ultimate ability* when the projectile was fired. Why would you give players a second chance to avoid the ultimate? I mean, it is a skill shot ultimate that affects only a single target. Please reconsider making it a skill shot ultimate affecting a single target that can't be blocked **twice**. *edited: can -> can't*
Akenero (NA)
: first off, what is the point you're trying to make, the grammar is actually awful to follow, and you make a couple of leaps in logic. second off, what does it change? as far as i can tell, you're complaining about an interaction urgot ult has with braum. EXPLAIN THIS before complaining about it, so others can weigh in on the situation. Either way, it doesn't really mean much in terms of the game, does it? Urgot ult KILLS WHAT IT HITS if your braum is dumb enough to block that, then he dies. simple as that.
1, the grammar is just fine. 2, this post is addressed towards the idi- I mean, other people on the Boards who seem to think Urgot's R is an execute ability and should ONLY be able to kill those 25% health or lower (in reference to killing Braum regardless of his health if he intercepts the second cast of R with his E). 3, forgot to do that, my bad. But I figured it was pretty well known by now with how much talk there was everywhere. Will fix. 4, Riot is pandering to the whining tra- I mean, other people who cri- I mean, complained continuously until Riot stated they would change it next patch. Next patch, Braum will completely ignore the R2 second cast if he uses his E and will not even be dragged unless he's 25% health or lower. Which is legitimately fucking stupid and goes against how his E works with every other fucking projectile in the game that applies CC.
: [GAMEPLAY] Morgana W does not pop banshee veil
Not a bug. AoE DoT abilities cannot pop spellshields.
: Got this from a chest today. Is this a thing that happens?
: Stop complaining about Tryndamere's ultimate keeping him alive during Urgot's ultimate.
no no no i must call it a super champion specific interaction so i can use it to make a retarded qq thread about urgot r without understanding that's the way both abilities are _supposed_ to work with each other in the first place and is still balanced for over half a dozen reasons and then cry and cry and cry until riot panders to my stupidity :^)
Lyseth (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Joxcab,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v2PAfTmi,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T23:05:35.980+0000) > > Riot is removing that because of kids crying continuously. > Next patch, Braum will not even be dragged unless he's 25% health or less. > Which is nonsensical and differs from the way literally EVERY SINGLE OTHER PROJECTILE IN THE GAME THAT APPLIES CC works with his E. So.... I'm supposed to care?
arc95 (NA)
: People that cry bad coding probably never wrote a good line of code in their life
Also the fact the coding was intended so that the 'bad coding' argument flies out the window anyways LOL
: but annie does the same thing but to multiple people lol
tbf, annie's range is a lot shorter and is reliant on her four stacks and can't farm while it's up because farming with her autoattacks alone is absolute shit
LazyW0lf (NA)
: IMO Braum should still be pulled in but take no damage, basically acting like a blitz hook and giving Braum a free counter-engage if timed properly
No, that's stupid and illogical. Either he CAN be allowed to block R2 and will die no matter what. Or he cannot even block R2, but he will survive. Riot pandering to the kids whining made a horribly stupid change. Next patch, Braum won't even be dragged let alone take the damage unless he's 25% health or less, which is fucking stupid.
: Why is it nonsensical for him to not be able to block it, though? As I said before, Riot has made exceptions with special mechanics. It would "make sense" for a Poppy W to block both Malphite R and Vi R as they are dashes, but Riot made them unstoppable, because it fit better both in terms of balance (so Poppy can't nullify their ultimates) and thematically (both are powerful dashes). Similarly, Urgot R is not only an ultimate, but it is unique in terms of how it functions. It's totally plausible for Riot to introduce some kind of "unstoppable" mechanic to the second part of his ult.
I didn't say that tho o_o sorry, bad at English It's okay for Braum to block Urgot R2 and get 100-0'd. It's okay for Braum to just not be able to block R2 because Urgot R2 is unstoppable, but then Braum won't die. Braum blocking R2 without dying or without being dragged is absolutely unacceptable, regardless of any other extenuating circumstances. Riot is changing it next patch so Braum won't even get dragged unless he has 25% health or less. That's legitimately fucking stupid.
: > Which is nonsensical and differs from the way literally EVERY SINGLE OTHER PROJECTILE IN THE GAME THAT APPLIES CC works with his E. Urgot R, while being a projectile, is also very unique, as it is a guaranteed death rather than a nuke, and also because it has a unique condition. Letting its interaction Braum E be an exception to this would be okay, both from a gameplay and thematic standpoint. Riot's made exceptions like this before for ultimates and stuff (such as Poppy W being unable to block unstoppable dashes).
So then either Braum can block it and he dies. Or he can't block it and he doesn't. Any other case is nonsensical.
: Does talon fall off late still
He doesn't have a late.
: I agree that it should apply the CC, and that it should deal some damage. However, there is _no reason_ for it to not just deal 100% of the _target_'s current HP, disable healing, and go through shields. It'd be the exact same execute, but would have less than an execute effect on Braum. You're talking about the ultimate from a thematic standpoint. According to the lore, Malphite is larger than Summoner's Rift and Aurelion Sol could destroy everything on the map with a single ability. Those aren't present in the game for a reason, that reason being _balance_. Again, I do think it should CC and damage Braum. It not doing so _isn't_ inconsistent, since it _will be_ (since they're changing it) conditional on the target having 25% or less HP to actually pull them in. However, that might not seem entirely balanced since he can _negate_ the ultimate. But just as negating the ultimate would be unfair, having his E be "the ultimate sacrifice" is also unbalanced. It should have the capacity to execute the targets it selects. Regardless of the "story" behind it, it shouldn't be something that executes no matter the HP (by the way, Braum's shield is literally invincible, so Urgot wouldn't even scratch him, according to the lore). If it was simply set as I suggested, it would have an effect despite being blocked, rather than made wholly ineffective. But you'll find some way to take offense at this post, throw direct or implied insults, and rage. So, I won't be responding to any replies.
Actually, you are again incorrect. Malphite and Aurelion Sol are scaled down/restricted whilst on the Rift (which is basically an entertainment coliseum in canon). So no, they can't do that either while on the Rift canon-wise. The grinder isn't specialized for any one person. It's meant to kill anything that enters it. It not pulling Braum regardless of his health is inconsistent with how his E works with literally every other fucking CC projectile in the game. You should learn what you're talking about before you presume to act superior let alone talk back. And then you realize that excuse flies out the window as well when the grinder can just swallow Braum with the rest of the shield and just kill him even if it can't break the shield itself. You've said that the last 27 times. At least try to come up with something a bit more entertaining if you're going to be a comedian-for-hire.
: ...isnt it a 70% slow?
I'm talking about the grinder that Urgot drags his enemy into when he recasts R a second time.
: Maybe it was to keep Warwick skilless trash.
Lyseth (NA)
: Urgot's ult won't do anything unless it grabs someone if it's already launched to nab a person at 25% or less, someone who would intercept would take the blow instead because in a sense Braum's shield is like a decoy that we could say "fools" attacks.
Riot is removing that because of kids crying continuously. Next patch, Braum will not even be dragged unless he's 25% health or less. Which is nonsensical and differs from the way literally EVERY SINGLE OTHER PROJECTILE IN THE GAME THAT APPLIES CC works with his E.
Rioter Comments
Paroe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DrCyanide,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNl34YPL,comment-id=002300000000000000000000000000000000000000010001,timestamp=2017-07-27T22:12:04.071+0000) > > Agree on the correct interaction but unintended part. > > If crying was all it took to change Riot's mind Yasuo would have been deleted long ago (or at the very least his Wind Wall changed to not spawn covering his whole hotbox). This is an interaction that doesn't belong in the game, which is why it's being removed. Do you even know what braums E does? It intercepts attacks. Urgots R2A is an attack with a displacement (ergo a non-cleansable CC) which braums E intercepts. Because braum intercepts the CC, he gets pulled; and is dealt the R2B damage. The interaction is correct within the lines of both urgots ultimate AND braums E.
Yeah let's just have Braum sit inside of a 11,000 true damage grinder and have him survive, sure, why not. It's not an execute. It's used as an execute. But it itself isn't an execute. That's like saying if you used a lethal injection only to kill people who were frail and weak and almost dead (like the highly controversial topic of mercy killing), that somehow magically makes the lethal injection an execution only. That's not the case. It doesn't matter who you inject with it. It could be the healthiest and strongest person on earth. They'd still die. It's not a fucking execute you moron. Stop prattling on about something you don't understand.
: That's why I said "is meant to kill the target who *was* below 25% HP". You're absolutely right on why it deals more damage than 25% of the target's HP.
Yeah so it's meant to kill the R1 target. But the chain has no way of telling. It just grabs the first person it hits. Obviously, for gameplay purposes, it's made untargetable so it just doesn't hit anyone which would make the ultimate actually trash. But if Braum intercepts it, the chain grabs him and feeds him into the grinder. But the original 25% health or less target is still the original target before it was swapped, therefore it is perfectly valid.
: I suspect that QSS does not ruin Urgot to play as, because the rest of his kit functions quite well on its own and should still be very fun to play. Also such a powerful suppression ought to have some way to play against it, not giving opponents anything to do about it would just lead to tons of player frustration. Doesn't QSS remove Malzahar ultimate? My point here is that there is precedent for allowing QSS to remove the ability. Code and theme wise it makes sense that he doesn't get to execute them, they have to be right next to him to be in reach of the ... grinding _<shudders>_ (I still hate how gruesome they chose to make that). I suspect that if they QSS but still end up right next to him it may be possible that the execute could still occur. TBH that might be a really cool interaction; if Urgot gets to try to chase after and/or flash onto them to still get the execute even if they escape the chains. Thoughts?
At the moment, QSS/cleanse effects do not immediately end it and will still drag you fairly close (probably around an inch or two on the screen away) before the cleanse properly finishes, but it will save you from the grinder. That would be pretty neat though, if he could E or Flash in time to still shove them into the grinder (which would presumably be still spinning). After further thought as well, it makes sense QSS removes his ultimate, as opposed to someone like Fizz or Fiora to be honest. It's just a bit irritating.
: If crying was all it took to change Riot's mind Yasuo would have been deleted long ago (or at the very least his Wind Wall changed to not spawn covering his whole hotbox). Try again. This is an interaction that doesn't belong in the game, plain and simple.
If it didn't belong in the game Riot wouldn't have intentionally put it in in the first place. *facepalm* Literally the only reason they're changing it is because of the Boards (and probably Reddit) losing their minds over this and whining. Yasuo's windwall is at least intended to do that from the very start even if people dislike it.
Paroe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Joxcab,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNl34YPL,comment-id=0023000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T21:52:54.753+0000) > > You don&#x27;t seem to get Riot wanted Braum to be the only one to be able to do that. No. Braum isnt special in this case; its the ability ineracting with braums unique interception ability. ANYONE who knows anything about how braums E works can tell you this isnt fully intended, but is a correct interaction. > [{quoted}](name=DrCyanide,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNl34YPL,comment-id=00230000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T21:57:55.776+0000) > > You don&#x27;t seem to get that if they wanted that this change would not be happening, since it 100% undoes the interaction. Riot is undoing the interaction because so many people are crying and moaning about it, despite it being a fair interaction and totally correct within the ability of braums E.
Sorry, that's what I was trying to convey. He's the only one with the interception skill he has on his E, which basically makes him the only one who can do that.
: You don't seem to get that if they wanted that this change would not be happening, since it 100% undoes the interaction.
Um no, they wanted to keep it the way it is now, but with this many people crying, they panderede to that.
: OK I see what you mean. I honestly agree with you there. Urgot successfully landed the ultimate, he deserves at least some sort of kill for his aim and use of the skillshot. It would be consistent, and more meaningful for the Braum player to choose to sacrifice themselves to save a teammate. Out of curiosity, can a player still cast spells and use auto-attacks while being pulled by R2?
They are suppressed while attached to the chain, as well as untargetable. However, Riot, in all their great wisdom, decided QSS/cleanse effects should remove the chain/suppress/drag effects when they specifically removed that interaction on Fiora/Trundle/Fizz ultimate because said 1300 gold made them useless later.
: > The grinder is MEANT to kill anyone who is in the grinder. No, the grinder is meant to kill the target who was below 25% HP when it was activated. If other targets were ok then they'd just make it able to be body blocked in general, because you'd still only be pulling in/killing one target.
You don't seem to get Riot wanted Braum to be the only one to be able to do that.
: Show me one other instance where an execute can 100-0 an unintended target and you can claim it's consistent.
You don't seem to understand. Urgot's ultimate is intended to be used as an execution but it in itself isn't an execution in terms of damage. The grinder is MEANT to kill anyone who is in the grinder. The chains drag whoever is struck with them. The chains can only be fired when the R1 target is 25% health or lower. That is literally the only part the health is relevant. Health is not relevant in either of the other two parts.
: I get the feeling that Braum players' frustrating with the interaction is not expecting the R2 yet having it happen? Not certain of that though. If that's the case, would it work to modernize Braum's shield by leaving it active only as long as the player holds down the ability? This would make it so that they only block when they already intend to and there's no chance of unexpected interactions. I imagine it would be satisfying to block the ult and take the sacrifice for an ally, as long as I had been intending to.
It's not really any different from not expecting someone to do that much damage when they killed you or whatever one ability doing that much. It only takes one instance to learn. Unfortunately, Riot is pandering to the ones complaining and making it so Braum just doesn't get dragged. At all. Unless he's also 25% or lower. Which is ridiculously stupid and violates their own principle of not making champion specific exceptions.
: R2 is dependant on who gets hit. Braum makes him the target hit. Urgot can still only instakill the R'd target if they fall below the threshold. This is the logical way to make it work, as that's how Braum's shield works. It makes HIM the target of projectiles he intercepts. The instadeath isn't guaranteed unless the HIT TARGET falls below the health amount. Braum becomes the target, no matter who was clicked on for any projectile he intercepts. All effects attached to those projectiles function as if Braum was the target. This should work no differently.
You still don't understand it. The grinder does something around 11,000 damage as true damage. That is intended. It's not meant to be 25% health damage. It's meant to autokill anyone inside. Urgot can only ACTIVATE R2 if the R1 target is 25% health or lower. That is the ONLY part where the health matters. The health has no effect on who gets dragged. The one that gets dragged is whoever the chain hits. Usually would be the R1 target, but can be Braum if intercepted. The health has no effect on the grinder. If you enter it, you die. If Braum intercepts R2, he deserves to die no matter what.
: Since everyone is fighting over this I kinda figured out how Braum got 100-0ed. SINCE Urgot's main target was intended for someone else, Braum's ability pretty much turns the attack "Directly" on him. In the CODE itself , the Ultimate is pretty much 100% kill anything in X amount of time if the character= 25% HP or less. Since the target was already selected the code that allows instant kill. Think of it like a Long Range Garen Ultimate but instead the damage that was MEANT to be on on that target was directed to someone else. But to the CODE it still assumed it was going to hit the main target. That can be placed as a CODE bug and/or as intended just needs be NOT that guy who jumps in front of someone and die.
It was fully logical and worked in accordance with how Urgot's R and Braum's E worked. But incompetent trash (gotta love em) cried and cried until Riot pandered to them and literally made an exception to the entire rest of the game just for Urgot R.
agbudar (NA)
: Urgot ult should only be able to pull on the condition that the target is below 25% of his health. if Braum is not below 25% of his health he should not be pulled period.
That is illogical and contradicts both Urgot's R and Braum's E. Please educate yourself. Your lack of understanding is cringeworthy.
: There's no consistent way to handle this though. No matter what way you slice it there's going to be some part that's inconsistent with some other aspect of the game. They're choosing to err on the side of not 100-0ing someone who wasn't the target, and I agree with that.
You still don't seem to understand. It WAS consistent with both aspects.
: That's not changed. The intention was that if it struck a target at or below 25% HP, they would be pulled in. If the target is pulled in, they still die. If it hits Braum and he's at or below 25% HP, he's pulled in and dies. But if he's above, the ability is consistent in that it doesn't pull him in.
Nope. You have not the slightest understanding so stop spamming please. 25% or lower is only required to fire the chains. That is it. They aren't pulled because they're 25% health or lower. They're pulled because they got hit with the chain. They don't die because they're 25% health or lower. They died because the grinder killed them. If it was the way you said, they'd just automatically die on the spot if they were 25% or lower because the grinder has no presence in your dumb theory, and dying would stop them from being pulled because 25% health or lower. Except that's not how it works. Educate yourself. It's honestly pitiful by this point to watch you spew out incorrect spam.
: I think everyone is misunderstanding here. Currently, if Braum intercepts Urgot's ult **HE DIES, EVEN IF HE IS AT 100% HP.** They are going to change it so, instead, he will now only get reeled in and die **ONLY IF HE IS AT THE 25% HEALTH MARKER, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE**
Everyone understands. And you are incorrect. Braum should die regardless of his health if he's allowed to block it. Or he should not be allowed to. R2 isn't a true projectile in the first place. Pick one of the two.
: One shot mechanics---regardless of their context---are NEVER healthy in *any* PVP game.
You are welcome to your opinion Riot themselves didn't share until enough incompetent players cried Riot pandered to them.
Rioter Comments
: I think Zenthon127 was making the point that the two abilities working as intended here, i.e. Urgot R's chains being a projectile and Braum/Yasuo blocking projectiles, doesn't feel like a good interaction, as the projectile nature of the chains is, in every other case, purely cosmetic. It's the same kind of screwy situation as Yasuo previously being able to block Soraka's Q self-healing, just because the effect was being carried by a cosmetic projectile from the target to her. To a larger extent, this I think represents one of the more long-term costs of projectile blocking as a mechanic, because it means any tech you implement, including purely cosmetic effects, automatically has a gameplay component attached to it when it's in projectile form. Suddenly you have to start asking yourself what that projectile represents, and how it has to interact with projectile blocking if that so happens. In this case, this means projectile blocker champions gain the ability to double-dip on countering Urgot's ult, simply because the guaranteed kill recast is conveyed through a projectile that should normally be completely unstoppable. It technically makes sense within Riot's own tech, because the chains are a projectile, but in practice the interaction feels really bizarre and unfair.
It shouldn't be a projectile at all. Either that or Braum dies 100-0 and it is a projectile. Those are the only two reasonable options.
Joxcab (NA)
: Oh okay, I understand. So you have no actual excuses of a point left. You could have said that earlier before wasting my time. Riot themselves stated the current interaction is the intended one which you don't seem to realize, but that they're changing it nonetheless, without stating the new one was their plan anyways. They are changing themselves from what they themselves decided solely because of the people complaining and whining here.
Are you incapable of reading between the lines or what? They stated the current interaction is intended. Explicitly. They stated they are changing it. They did not say that was part of their plans or that will be the new intended result they desired. They are simply changing it in response to the thread. Which consists of people whining and complaining due to their incompetence. Without the thread, they would not have changed said balanced interaction in the first place. Then stop wasting my time if you're not going to bother to even learn when I'm wasting my time to try and educate you?
: This is the real question. My first reaction to this (and the Yasuo interaction) was that it was a bug. "Intended behavior" makes it sound like it's bad code that nobody wants to fix. Also dear god get rid of QSS stopping the ult. Its ability to purge Zed ult was removed for a reason. EDIT: More context further down.
Except, that's the intended way both Urgot's R works and Braum E works, according to their 'rules' for what they do and don't. And yeah, QSS removing it stupid. It's already hard enough to even get off R2 in the first place.
KoKoboto (NA)
: Yeah these kinds of limitations are really stupid and very disappointing... Does it at least ignore normal shields? So if a champion is below 25% health but gets shielded they still get killed??
Nope, shields aren't ignored. However, that's not an issue unless they have like 12000 health and got shielded for like 11000 of that health, because the current ultimate does around 11000 true damage at the moment which is being fixed to do infinite.
: I, along with many others, protested the ability of a single ability to 100-0 a tank. You disagreed. Upon learning that it is going to change, you said: >They are simply pandering to the crying trash. Saying that those who disagree and believe it should be changed are "crying trash". I was one of the people who disagree. Therefore, you called me trash. --- Well, whatever you say on the matter, it's being _balanced_, so there's no point in any further discussion.
Oh okay, I understand. So you have no actual excuses of a point left. You could have said that earlier before wasting my time. Riot themselves stated the current interaction is the intended one which you don't seem to realize, but that they're changing it nonetheless, without stating the new one was their plan anyways. They are changing themselves from what they themselves decided solely because of the people complaining and whining here.
: You act like Braum's shield completely denying projectile Ults is a new thing.
Yeah except those are actually consistent in how they work and still affect Braum with any CC, and this doesn't and is the one exception in the entire game. But who cares about consistency, right?
: Well, first off, insulting me isn't going to help your argument in any way. Secondly, it's a balance issue. A single ult should NEVER have the power to 100-0 a tank with no recourse. And lastly, Yasuo's windwall can render DOZENS of ults ineffective, but Braum being able to do the same for ONE is broken and OP? Interesting perspective.
Not sure where I stated it was directed towards you. It's entirely up to Braum and his teammates to do so. Urgot can't ever choose to do that. No, because it goes against the very way Braum's E works? And Riot is literally making one ability out of all of them an exception to his E? At least Yasuo's W is consistent.
: I guess so. On the other hand, they might actually care about game balance. But you can just go with whatever makes you feel better.
Or if you bothered reading what the Riot member said, right now is what is intended, but they're changing it. They never said the latter will be intended either. They are simply pandering to the crying trash. lmao
: > [{quoted}](name=Beluga Whale,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GNl34YPL,comment-id=0023,timestamp=2017-07-27T18:49:02.557+0000) > > Hey, just wanted to chime in here. Am the designer on Urgot. > > This is currently working as intended, but **will ** be changed next patch to only pull Braum in if he is also below the HP threshold. Apparently that's not the point, seeing as it's being changed.
Yeah because Riot is pandering to the crying kids, what a surprise.
: > [{quoted}](name=Joxcab,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vmaVvtKr,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-07-27T17:37:25.070+0000) > > No, because Braum isn&#x27;t the R1 target. > The grinder does absolute death regardless of health. > Braum is the only champion that can die at above 25% health to it because he&#x27;s the only one that can get hit by the R2 chains instead. Isn't R1 a skillshot? I thought Braum blocked it with his shield? Or did R1 connect with Xerath, who was below 25% hp, then when Urgot R2'd Braum shielded and pulled him instead? R2 is a projectile?
R1 hit Xerath. R2 is a special form of untargetable, but yes it's a projectile.
: Yeah, it's really stupid that the ult would only kill targets under 25% HP. I mean, that's the entire point of the ability, but it only doing that is stupid. /s
No, the point of the ability is to kill anyone in the grinder. If you don't even know what you're talking about, please don't.
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Joxcab

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