: How it feels to lose to toxic players
Dude why you gotta treat the King of Knights like that. Every time I see this scene I feel so much for her. Artoria is best girl
: Anime?
Dude are you serious? You poor soul! That is Fate, and you are gazing upon the tears of the most beautiful and pure waifu to ever be king of Britain. Seeing as just saying "its fate" won't help much. This scene in particular is from "Fate: Zero" Watch in this order: Fate: Zero (prequel to Stay/Night and unlimited blade works) Fate: Unlimited Blade Works 11/10 hit all the main story beats, but focuses on the back up best girl Fate: Stay/Night: Worse fights but the best ending, but its older and the animation quality isn't near as good. It is more light hearted and develops relationships a bit more. It is definitely worth a watch. I WARN YOU THOUGH ONCE YOU START FATE IT CONSUMES YOU. You will spend more time on the type moon wiki than breathing.
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fEeNbAEc,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-11-29T05:18:25.960+0000) > > I mean, if they were to allow tanks to survive, they could in turn help keep the ADC alive. I suggested True Damage Reduction (which is regular damage reduction that also reduces true damage). They don't really seem interested in lowering damage, so having a class that can stay in the front and soak damage could help (since they barely can hold for 2 seconds until they are forced out of the fight or are instagimped). No. The whole point of True damage is that it's meant to do the damage stated regardless of defensive or mitigation effects.
This. There is no point for True damage existing if it doesn't bypass defenses, that is the only reason it is around at all. Damage numbers just needs to be lowered, that is all.
: Ima be real with you chief: League isn't gonna be relevant. That said, it's NOT because of the game state or any sort of balance/release. MOBAs, as a whole, have run their course. While people will come in and tell me I'm wrong I am and that this is unique to league, every game across the board has had playerbase drops. If anything, DOTA2 is mirroring League in a lot of ways although their changes which happened years ago. Valve recognized the market was changing and tried to change things for DOTA2 to appeal to newcomers. They added talents, fountains and more to ease newcomers in. They added "Turbo Mode" which greatly increased game speed. The new heroes added are much more fun, cartoony and (dare I say) League-esque. All of this happened in 2016/2017. Guess what? DoTA2 is _still_ declining as a game according to steam charts. Average players are down. Peak players are too. People only tune in for the International League is trying the exact same thing: Major reworks to stuff to help ease people into the game. A new mode that caters to faster, punchy gameplay. An approach to design in the past season that has 100% catered to casuals. Everything Riot is doing is just as Valve did: A push to get people invested. People, and especially younger kids, don't want to invest a thousand hours just to learn the basics of the game. They want to jump right in with little-to-no barriers. PUBG/Fortnite are taking off because of fast gameplay and low barrier of entry, two things no moba can earnestly boast. This is the exact situation WoW and the MMO genre was in around 10 years ago as well. They ran their course and they couldn't compete with a game genre (League/MOBAs) that had a lower barrier of entry and less time to learn game basics. What we're seeing now is the game moving more towards the core audience. Those that played League socially aren't going to stick around anymore and/or they've gotten too old to play. Those that love League/Riot through thick-and-thin will stick around, just as there are those who stick with WoW/Blizzard no matter the state of the game. Will League have spikes? Sure. WoW recently shot up high thanks to Legion and BFA seems to have landed well. It isn't going to be the megastar #1 game in the world anymore. Just as streamers and content creators stopped making WoW content, so too are League streamers moving away. Could Season 8 have helped? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm gonna haphazard that this season could have been the greatest and we'd still see a decline. At some point you gotta look beyond the state of the game and realize that the problems are well beyond anything Riot specifically did.
I agree, Moba's have run their course, I don't see any real future in them at this point. They have hit their peak years ago and are no hitting a steady decline as newcomers get into different games. That doesn't mean that league is dying any time soon for sure, just as league has a ton of fans so do the other major MOBAs (Smite, DOTA, HOTS) and I don't see those fans fleeing any time soon, but they don't have any real way of pulling new gamers for sure. The genre isn't dead by any means, but it is not the hyper-sensational powerhouse it was before either. Growth will stagnate and then drop and while everyone will enjoy the the game for years to come, it will never have the market it did a few years ago.
Quinzley (EUNE)
: Or maybe some people don't like being ruled by a guy who will take your free will away?
> [{quoted}](name=Quinzley,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mLZphqUU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-09T18:36:05.029+0000) > > Or maybe some people don't like being ruled by a guy who will take your free will away? Compared to the dude who literally has no purpose besides "war is cool"
: So... if we're now living in a world where people can lose their jobs over some potentially inadvisable social media posts, can I start pointing employers towards specific tweets? I can think of some people way more inept than those two developers appear to be who could stand to be removed from their positions.
> [{quoted}](name=kurthl33t,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BAoBlyNZ,comment-id=0031,timestamp=2018-07-07T19:13:16.517+0000) > > So... if we're now living in a world where people can lose their jobs over some potentially inadvisable social media posts, can I start pointing employers towards specific tweets? I can think of some people way more inept than those two developers appear to be who could stand to be removed from their positions. We've always lived in that world, what you say as a member of a company sticks with you whether you are off or on the clock can get you fired, if you are a shitty human and enough people see it, then it is easier to fire you than try to put out that fire and risk having you say more shit like that. In my opinion, justice was served, she was a bitch, look at what she said about total biscuit.
DearPear (EUW)
: Well, she made a gracefull comment on Total Biscuit's death. She's more hateful than a sith.
> [{quoted}](name=DearPear,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BAoBlyNZ,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-07-07T03:46:57.230+0000) > > Well, she made a gracefull comment on Total Biscuit's death. She's more hateful than a sith. she lost any and all empathy art that point for sure, good riddance.
: Be God King Garen
Garen better win screw all the edgelords who dared pick yasuo last time.
: Aatrox roams "free" on Runeterra by far longer than Varus or Rhaast. He knows that a human body can't keep the transformation forever, no matter what he does, he never reach his true form again. Rhaast finally gets his first body - he still doesn't know the downside of this. He probably thinks if he kills enough, he can sustain himself forever. But that doesn't work like this.
> [{quoted}](name=Tialilia,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=l9eQRxnr,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-06-29T16:39:34.991+0000) > > Aatrox roams "free" on Runeterra by far longer than Varus or Rhaast. > He knows that a human body can't keep the transformation forever, no matter what he does, he never reach his true form again. > Rhaast finally gets his first body - he still doesn't know the downside of this. He probably thinks if he kills enough, he can sustain himself forever. But that doesn't work like this. I think it is because Kayn is actually a powerful host as well. If Rhaast takes the body over he has control over someone who can sustain his form, he also gains Kayn's combat abilities as shown by his comments about shadow stepping. Aatrox has likely never had a truly powerful host, and he has never had a symbiotic relationship with his host like Rhaast or Varus. He never learned from them, just instantly dominated the frail body of random mooks.
: correct i was about to write a wall of text about that but you beat me to it. His Q resembles the behaviour of a shark as it comes from below and dives back down. His whole kit revolves around devouring prey fast and replenishing health. He is the SHARKMASTER. too bad riot is butchering him with the rework.
You mean making him playable? Getting that asshole to M7 pre-rework was cancer. What a massive waste of my life, he has a cool theme, and that is being kept for the most part, but his kit? God awful.
: Can we get skins of Ascended Aatrox, Rhaast and Varus before they change and become Darkins?
All Ascended we know of took the form of one animal or another similar to Egyptian gods. However we also know that the void tainted them during their fights with it and all of them are forced to make a new form with a human host. These are what we currently know as the Darkin. So they likely did have forms similar to animals during their time as ascended. From Rhaast I can only guess by his horns that he was once a bull, which would explain why he feels the need to make horns. Aatrox was likely another Bird-like form similar to Azir, but more muscular and Angelic (it states that as he reaps he tries to get closer and closer to his original form, and his rework expands his wings and makes him fly during his ult) I don't really have anything for Varus; as his form is made up entirely of two humans.
: We do listen to players when they give us feedback on stuff :-) So many people were saying that his choice/sacrifice was what made him a resonant character. I was looking at what was published around the music video, and I couldn't see any reason why both of those stories couldn't be true... so we reinstated the part that players were missing from the old lore. We will continue to update champion lore as their stories develop. Hopefully Varus, Yasuo, Riven, and soon Karma too, will reflect that pledge.
> [{quoted}](name=Scathlocke,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=REtBJ3ER,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-25T17:56:02.456+0000) > > We do listen to players when they give us feedback on stuff :-) > > So many people were saying that his choice/sacrifice was what made him a resonant character. I was looking at what was published around the music video, and I couldn't see any reason why both of those stories couldn't be true... so we reinstated the part that players were missing from the old lore. > > We will continue to update champion lore as their stories develop. Hopefully Varus, Yasuo, Riven, and soon Karma too, will reflect that pledge. I am hoping this gets an extended bio as well. I don't think many people cared about the whole "I'm gay now" thing as much as they acted like it, but his old story was cool. He was tasked to defend this primordial demon to the last breath, and despite knowing that his loved ones are being butchered he did that, and in the end his thirst for vengeance was too great. He had nothing left anymore, and that drove him to vengeance, even knowing that the power was eating him alive. So I am glad to see you guys are keeping some of that flavor. I still dislike the aspect that both of them are inside Varus and it would have been more powerful it was one grief stricken man trying to hold him back while at the same time wanting vengeance against Noxus as well.
: I like merciless ruler {{champion:86}} more than merciless challenger {{champion:122}} The [" Light is not good "](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LightIsNotGood) aesthetic is really fun to play around with
It is a fun idea sure but done to death, for league lets keep the whole "demacia are the authoritarian good guys" and "me noxus, me like war ggggrrrr" theme. I would prefer not to have Garen's legendary skin conflict with his character.
: i just caught up on my garen skins someone buy me this one i own all the others >.<
Sorry Bruh I own every Garen skin and will be too busy buying it for myself {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
: Wow, that's such an improvement
Wow glad they are responding to the feedback, he seriously looking like a putty sculpture in the first one, like something Lord Zed would use when trying to take out those pesky power rangers.
: Really people? A thread on reducing TRUE damage gets front page? We wont be taken seriously...
Xcion (NA)
: Why the fuck did you do this to Aatrox?
His rework is fantastic, as someone who had a horrible time M7'ing this asshole I am glad he is getting changed. He was literally useless without tiamat and guinsoos before.
Xcion (NA)
: No its shit cause we already have a champion like this.
yeah because we don't have any champions that right click and auto right? Or champions that do that and resurrect themselves? {{champion:23}}
Delebru (EUW)
: End of IE Garen
I don't thin riot considered Garen's interaction with crit chance at all with this patch. It makes the E's crit element entirely redundant and nearly unusable. On top of that they are bringing back Atma's and removing the crit chance from it, like what the hell man. Unfortunately with the current Itemization I think it might be time to remove the critical chance element from his E entirely and simply buff the skills AD scaling to compensate. I am always a fan of stat scaling as it is a easily changeable fix that is quick to fine tune or hot fix in case the changes are underwhelming or overwhelming. But really the problem with Garen is one fundamental to his kit, the game has drastically changed, and he no longer has the tools to keep up. Without any form of crowd control, a dash, or in combat healing he doesn't have the options that other top laners have and he can no longer keep up with the mobility meta. **Suggestions:** * Add a small Rengar/Illaoi leap to the end of Garen's Q that triggers in a certain range. This will allow him engagement opportunities without burning flash, but wouldn't be overly strong because he has no crowd control to back a hard engage and displace the enemy team. It just follow his current doctrine of "run at dudes and jump on them" except with an actual jump. This will also help his laning phase against the increasing prevalence of ranged top laners, giving him opportunities to outplay them. * Add crowd control. Lets face it, with the ever increasing mobility meta the viability of a "tank" with no crowd control and functions as a Pseudo-Assassin until he falls off is pretty nil. While I agree that adding easily accessible crowd control his his kit may prove to be too strong it doesn't hurt to experiment with it. Adding a minor slow to his E that Mirrors the current philosophy of being weaker against a group may be the thing that forces the enemy to want to keep him away and actually waste skills on him when building tank. Knowing that him slowing the entire team in a cluster is a very real threat or having the ability to slow an assassination target without being reliant on Dead Mans would be a good boon to him. * Alternatively on the opposite end of the spectrum some element of crowd control could be added to his ult similar to other demacian melee champions such as Poppy, Galio, J4, or Xin. Something simple that interacts with how his kit functions normally but adds slightly more flavor to it such as "If an enemy is executed by Demacian Justice, enemy champions within X units of the impact site are dragged to the center". This would cause enemies to avoid wanting to cluster around the villain for fear of getting dragged in and actually fear the justice coming their way. This suggestion is especially good because it gates the crowd control element with the pre-requisite of killing an enemy with an ability on a long cooldown. * Allow Courage to stack infinitely while decreasing the rate that is increases past 40 Armor/MR. This will have little impact besides making him Tankier in the late game of allowed to farm past 160 units.
GripaAviara (EUNE)
: Am I the only one happy here that a tank on steroids like garen can't abuse that item anymore? And no, don't come with the bullshit that he is a juggernaut. They might wanted him to be one but atm he one of the tankiest champions in game (nr 12 at damage taken but if u remove trynda and healers, you get nr 6 with shit ton of damage and 0 fancy mechanic
If you look at his base stats you will see this is inherently false, he typically has less armor and magic resist than other top laners (made up for with W) and due to the fact he has no crowd control he is not a tank in any way shape or form. If you are targeting a Garen building full tank you seriously need to reconsider how you play.
: PSA to teens: Defensive driving is fucking important, so don't treat it like a joke
I gotta say, here in Iowa the reckless drivers are always crackwhores and the elderly, I rarely see kids do anything stupid unless its come dude in a muscle car trying to race every person at a red light.
: Atma's is back
What the hell is this supposed to be? WHERE IS THE CRIT CHANCE? {{sticker:garen-swing}}
Rouwhorst (EUW)
: Hard CC on an execute is a difficult spot to put it. It should require him to execute his target, else you would have two contradictory uses for it. But that would mean he does not have full control over his hard CC which can lead to some big hit or miss scenarios. It can certainly be of use, but you can wonder if his power budget allows for this and whether the ratio of (power budget) cost and reward is high enough. Either way, I doubt Garen can be fixed this easily. Even if he is able to engage with or without flash, he either kills his target quickly (often because of a lead), or deals some damage but not enough and dies because he lacks all other tools necessary. He does not have enough sustained damage nor does he have an escape. The above scenario is especially the case with teamfights in which his E only does 75% damage and his targets get shielded/healed for half their health. Due to how his kit works he isn't good versus tanks, regardless of all the armor reduction, except when they are villain then he does mediocre damage. He can't peel, he can't kill tanks, he can't kill the backline due to the support and the kiting and the damage (most fighters suffer from this last one). Almost never can he split push as there are stronger opponents which can easily face him. He brings too little to the team to be useful if he can't acquire a lead and practically oneshot his targets and win before lategame.
To put it simply, his ult is the only place crowd control CAN be placed without breaking his power budget, this is simply due to the cooldown of the ability restricting its use in an engagement. Do you use your ult to blow up a target mid fight or use it early as an initiation tool? Those level of choices are the kind of thing that are beyond Garen at the moment, and result in him being a binary champion. There is very little decision making involved in his kit, and because of that simplicity it becomes hard to think of meaningful ways to change him. A dash on his Q is very easily the tool needed to push Garen to a competitive level, and again; it creates more decision opportunities that allow both him and his opponent to outplay or bait the other. The dash on his Q would be perfect as a harassment and hard engage tool, allowing him jump into the middle of the fray and take advantage of the rest of his kit to either A: Do the most damage possible, or B: Escape after harrassing, potentially baiting strong spells from the enemy. It also ties perfectly well into the rest of his combo, Q->W->E would allow him meaningful engages even if he doesn't walk away with a kill. The Tenacity bonus from his W would allow him to shrug off panic crowd control while the Q speed boost allows him to get some level of shred off with his E. Using the ghosting element his E already has this would allow him to have a relatively safe engage as well as the tools needed to escape after, all without any crowd control involved. Walk off in a bush and heal up, and boom your ready to it again. Will it always work? Of course not, but it would be an arm and a leg more reliable than his current late game strategy of "run at enemy and hope you land Q".
: just give garen more spins for building attack speed.
Honestly it is a decent idea I have seen suggested numerous times and I have no idea why Riot won't comment on it, but the bigger problem is that all this does is add more to what Garen already does without addressing any of his numerous weaknesses that leave him in a bad place. If we wanted him to simply do more damage we could just buff his AD ratio on his E and call it a day. But that isn't the problem is it? No the problem with Garen is that he rides the "Juggernaut" definition to its limit. He is a tanky damage dealer, but nothing else. Because he provides no CC he can't peel or tank for his team, meaning damage is all he can do, but because of his the limitations in his kit he can't really do the damage dealer roles well unless he gets a lead. What can be done to solve this? **Simple solution:** Add a slight dash to his Q. I am talking like Illaoi level slam here. After reaching a certain distance between him and his target he will leap at them and silence them. Simple as that. Garen is fixed. Why does this fix him? Simply put, it gives him options where before he was completely binary. Using this he can actually engage into a fight, something he wouldn't be able to do before without burning {{summoner:4}}. It gives him the ability to choose his engagements better while also allowing the enemy team to potentially bait him. If his role is going to be "Do Melee Damage" the very least they can do is give him the tools needed to get in that range. Movement speed simply isn't strong enough anymore to compete with every champion having a dash, shields and movement speed bonuses of their own. **Alternative More Risky Solution"**: Have his ult either pull champions near his target towards the impact site, or alternatively push them away. This would allow for his ult to be used as something other than a "steal one kill" button and have impact even in losing fights. This would give him the tools he needed to participate in teamfights are a larger scale as any disruption is good disruption. If it pulls targets closer to the impact site it would leave enemies avoiding clustering Malphite style, if it pushes them away it would be a good way to isolate an ult target in a similar style to what two other Demacian Champions such as Jarvin and Xin Zhao. The problem with this however is while any disruption is good, it can also lead to balance issues, ideas to give Garen hard CC are generally looked down upon because it may too gamebreaking and this is no exception and would be riskier. {{sticker:garen-swing}}
: I can understand that everybody is freaking out on a new Shen skin but...
Looks like Spider from megaman X Command Mission. https://img00.deviantart.net/9ac1/i/2004/162/5/2/spider__3.jpg
: And what about teemo gnar kennen etc, remove them from the game?
I would be okay with yordles in general being removed {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
D0P3ST (NA)
: Garen Improvement
My biggest thought on the issue would be to add a **Small** Rengar/Illaoi like "leap" to his q, where once he reaches a certain distance he leaps at the target and silences them. Garen's biggest problem is he has no initiation, he basically has to burn flash or ghost to engage every single time. On your suggestions. * I actually like the idea of making his E auto crit. This would keep his core identity as a critable bruiser, something cool and unique to him, and would make IE a core item again as well as helping him transition to late game better. * I love the Atma's Impaler suggestion, as it is the item I miss the most on Garen and would allow him to compete in damage with bruisers who scale harders than him normally, while not affecting his early game too much. * Uncapped Armor and Magic resist is fine in the situation that it scales slowly as you suggested. A farm heavy game would allow him to get 60 extra Armor/MR, nothing insane really when you consider all the reductions available to his opponents. * I like the idea of the w granting him unstoppable, but it doesn't stop the fact he doesn't have a reliable engage, allowing him to shrug off a stun is cool, but I would much rather have something more reliable like my suggested Q change and I feel having both would be too strong.
: > The damage isn't being buffed really, just not being nerfed outright in a teamfight like it usually is. This is just a ridiculous sentence. It is increased compared to the current version. It's a buff, and a big one, no matter your opinion on the current version. And no, not everyone is a monster in lower rankings. Off the top of my head, Ryze, Azir, Yasuo, Riven, Rumble, Shen, Kalista, Cassio are not-monsters. And just like Ryze or Kalista have been nerfed because they were too good in pro, Garen has been nerfed because he's too good in low rankings. Balancing is mostly done for High Plat, but the key word here is "mostly". No champ can be allowed to be flat-out OP at any rating, and that's what removing the AoE penalty on Garen's E would do. Now about your other suggestions, I didn't say anything about it because I have nothing to add. They are interesting, and certainly a good thing for Garen. But they also require more extensive work, with VFX and animation, and are in a vastly different scope than just removing an invisible effect on an existing skill. And your easier suggestion, that you offer just as if it was similar to the other two, is NOT a good one, I'm 99% sure of it. So THAT's what I replied to, because that's what needed addressing.
We will just have to agree to disagree on that note then, if you think of the situations where that buff would actually help out (I.E. in a teamfight after level nine with multiple opponents in melee range for a full three seconds) you will see it is not nearly as powerful as it sounds. On paper, saying "33% stronger" sounds completely ridiculous, but in actual effect this change would hardly be noticed outside of few key situations, and over all would only help his late game viability by making his primary damage source actually reliable against more than one target. But hey, I don't think I am going to convince you here suppose that's all there is too it, just throwing out a quick justification to show there is a thought process here other than "moar damage plox".
: Please stop ignoring Garen rito :(
This has been floating around the boards for a while and I love chiming in on my main ma garbear. But I am just going to copy paste my last post on the subject if you don't mind as I feel it covers my thoughts on the issue pretty well. > Another Garen main here chiming in. I am fine with Garen being simple and I think that over all his kit has a charm to it. All of his moves are fine, they just lack any substance to allow for bigger plays that other characters can do. I don't think he needs a large rework in the slightest, if anything I think some tacked on elements to his kit would go a long way to making an already fun champion viable. > > What does Garen need? Well if you looks what he lacks that becomes apparent. He can't tank because he has no Crowd Control, and he can't home in on a carry well because he has no way of initiating without flash. So here are my suggestions. > > **Q change: **Similar to a Rengar pounce, the Q will function normally until he enters a certain range of his target where he will do a leaping slash at the target silencing them. This allows him to function as an initiator without burning flash, and can allow him to outplay his opponents as well as opening opportunities for his opponent to bait him into unfavorable situations. > > ** E Change: ** Just buff the damage 33% and take off the stupid element that makes him deal more damage to a single enemy. It is a dumb mechanic to put on an AoE ability that is also his only damage source. > > **R Change:** Functions exactly the same, however the ground around the impact site of sword becomes collapsed, pulling champions within the blast radius in towards his target as well as causing minor damage to those within. (Or perhaps pushing them away to keep with the J4/Xin theme?) > > These changes allow for Garen to retain his core identity and thematics while making the viable in the current state of the game with no major rework needed. > > {{sticker:garen-swing}} Now keep in mind I am not saying anything close to "he needs ALL of this at once" just a simple analysis of what I find defective in his kit and how to remedy it.
: Garen has a lot of problems, no one is denying that. But can he really afford such a huge buff without being flat out OP? I'm pretty sure he can't. And at the very least, that would make him a monster in Bronze.
Literally anyone is a monster in lower elo rankings, he most certainly can afford such a buff simply because his kit lacks so much needed for his role. He has no hard control or initiation mechanic, two very **essential** tools for any bruiser/tank. Because he lacks those elements his kit he is often relegated to the role of an assassin or skirmisher, roles he also can't succeed well in because he lacks any sort of dash. As of his current iteration, he is only a pub stomper, great for punishing people who don't know how to avoid him. Any ranged laner ruins his laning phase, any character with similar damage output, tankiness, or just any level of crowd control can keep advantage well into the laning phase by simply playing safe. The damage isn't being buffed really, just not being nerfed outright in a teamfight like it usually is. Even it was doing is maximum potential it will still be incredibly limited due to the fact is a melee ability, and without further changes will still result in him trying to single out a target. The primary difference being if your target is with a buddy you won't suddenly be doing 33% less than what you would normally expect. I mean dude, he is quoted saying ''The most effective way to kill an opponent is to slice through the man next to him.'' - Garen, on front line strategy. If any of my other suggested changes were made? Screw it, no problems there. If he had a semi-reliable initiation tool on his Q he wouldn't need the extra damage so desperately. If he had some level of crowd control on his ult he wouldn't need any either because he would have _**options**_ besides "do damage dude" .
: Interesting point. I think you're right. Do you think he may need Sion/Galio type of rework, or more like Warwick type of rework?
I really wouldn't argue for either, as those are all intensive core reworks that involve changing quite a bit of his kit. His fundamental are fine, the core kit is fine, he just needs something extra to insure that he has something else to do in a fight besides hope he gets lucky or flashes in. Adding a **small** rengar like leap to his Q would be a good change, as it wouldn't force him to burn flash to engage on everything as well as allow enemies to play around it to bait him. This doubles down on his core concept of charging the enemy from the front lines while also giving the enemy opportunities to play around it and bait him into unfavorable engagements. I would also say something could be done with his ultimate to allow it some element of aiding in a fight beside "kill the practically dead guy if he is the villain". If it slightly pulled or pushed enemies away or towards the epicenter (similar to other Demacian ults) it could allow for him to have a secondary engagement tool albeit on a long cooldown. If it pushed enemies away from his target, it would aid in his current identity of "kill this guy in particular" while pulling enemies closer would allow him to function as a psuedo tank better.
: You're flat out suggesting a 33% buff of his main damage source in team-fights. I mean, as a fellow Garen main, I wouldn't complain if they did that, but I think that would be a tad bit OP...
As of right now he literally nerfs himself by using his aoe ability as an aoe, it is a weird mechanic that forces him to play like an assassin. That is a bit counter productive to is core identity, and as you have undoubtedly seen a change to that would greatly aid the peanuts he dos for damage in late game fights. Hell I would argue you could even put that uncapped element at this max rank e only so as not to disrupt his laning phase.
: Gapclosing is one issue, but his E is too reliable. This means once gapclosing is done, it doesn't matter if the player is a challenger or bronze, the E will do the same thing. Compare this to other melee range abilities like Darius Q (can be avoided, and has delay), Poppy Q (must be aimed to a minor degree, has delay), etc. Riot added the armor shred a while back, but I think the skill cap is still very low, so it becomes difficult to add power to his kit.
This is actually an issue I enjoy being brought up. Because while on paper, Garen's E does have fantastic damage meaning a gapcloser or CC ability would make it too powerful right? Well that would be true if you didn't factor in the fact that it takes a full three seconds of sustained combat do actually do that damage. During that time you could hit him with CC of your own to either Kite him or stop him in his tracks, move to the safety of a turret/ally, or simply use one of the other ten million dash abilities in the game to escape. Compare that to a Darius Q for example, which lets off its full damage instantly as well as healing him by a truckload of hp and applying another bleed stack and you will see why this is an unfair comparison. The same goes for Poppy's Q which despite having a delay on the damage (of only one second) that damage is practically guaranteed due to the slow and even if the second chunk does miss a large amount of that damage is %hp and upfront. But for Garen the guy has no choice but to charge at enemies and all in them for the entirety of his combo for a full three seconds or have inefficient trades. So why not double down on that premise by allowing him to do his one niche well and give him some options for a teamfight? Your other examples have many tools at their disposal to insure their trades are favorable, and in the situation they are not, have options to stay in the fight when those main damaging abilities are circumvented. Garen does not, he does not have any form of hard crowd control to initiate or disrupt a fight, just a main source of damage so easily countered I cannot really call it "reliable" by any means.
: I know that I'm not known around here, nor will this be anything to look at that's important, but give me a chance? I'll be honest, Garen has some poke, with his q but that's about it, charge in and either engage or run. That ability is so lackluster its not even funny, sure charging into battle shows into his character, but that's not the point here, Garen's title is "The Might of Demacia" why not show it a bit more? Not like how Darius is, but a bit more.. subtle. His E really only serves players for farming and single target damage, but provides nothing, only single target dps. Garen's W is fine to me, but maybe less armor and more magic resist? His passive, oh his passive makes me mad, its annoying to deal with when you're against him, its basically a free Warmog's Armor at level 11, basically not giving his enemy laner a chance to fight him when he backs off to regen. Then again im just a lowly noob, what do I know
Usually by level 11 your team has started engaging in real fights and the laning phase has become less important, before then his passive may as well not be there because his base regen is so low.
: > Other champs with very simple kits manage to see top tier / pro play. Because those kits are still nuanced and have depth. Garen has nothing. No range, no poke, and mediocre damage. There is no champion in the game as completely inflexible as Garen. Even one-trick pony champions like Zoe or Annie are heaps more nuanced than Garen. This is the problem; he has a trash kit, and needs to be revamped.
I wouldn't say his kit is trash in the least, it serves a dedicated function well, but just isn't flexible like other champions. The bstthe guy can do is charge at you, and while I don't think that is a bad thing, it could use more elements besides a simple speedboost to make that viable. Olaf becomes unstoppable for example, Sion enters train mode, what Garen needs is a reliable initiation tool to allows him to get into those moments without burning flash and let the rest of his kit do the work.
: Garen deserves a large-scope rework
Another Garen main here chiming in. I am fine with Garen being simple and I think that over all his kit has a charm to it. All of his moves are fine, they just lack any substance to allow for bigger plays that other characters can do. I don't think he needs a large rework in the slightest, if anything I think some tacked on elements to his kit would go a long way to making an already fun champion viable. What does Garen need? Well if you looks what he lacks that becomes apparent. He can't tank because he has no Crowd Control, and he can't home in on a carry well because he has no way of initiating without flash. So here are my suggestions. **Q change: **Similar to a Rengar pounce, the Q will function normally until he enters a certain range of his target where he will do a leaping slash at the target silencing them. This allows him to function as an initiator without burning flash, and can allow him to outplay his opponents as well as opening opportunities for his opponent to bait him into unfavorable situations. ** E Change: ** Just buff the damage 33% and take off the stupid element that makes him deal more damage to a single enemy. It is a dumb mechanic to put on an AoE ability that is also his only damage source. **R Change:** Functions exactly the same, however the ground around the impact site of sword becomes collapsed, pulling champions within the blast radius in towards his target as well as causing minor damage to those within. (Or perhaps pushing them away to keep with the J4/Xin theme?) These changes allow for Garen to retain his core identity and thematics while making the viable in the current state of the game with no major rework needed. {{sticker:garen-swing}}
: Good God Riot
The only dragon in this skin is from his ultimate, the rework kind of threw that huh.
wildfox99 (EUW)
: >{{champion:142}} Is a problem, know what'll fix her? +1 second CD on her Q! Her damage is fiiiiiiiine... zoe's damage is fine,she's a mid laner she's supposed to deal damage (her full rotation doesn't even deal so much damage compared with other mid laners) her problem is how she apply this damage and how hard is to punish her edit : it's funny how if you don't follow the board's complain but you try to reason,you get downvoted into oblivion without anyone that can give a answer that's not "you are wrong because yes" edit 2 : i heard it seemed like i was defending her,so for clarity that was my answer >i'm not defendig her (i even said many times that i think she's broken,and personally if i could i would just remove this champion from lol),and why you think her full combo means her Q? >i said it many times,her Q and E Q deal too much damage,but her kit in general (so adding her W and P and comparing a full rotation with other mages like you are hitting a pratice tool dummy) isn't too high,so intead nerfing her damage she should lose some of her unneded tools in her kit (e.g. the CDR on her E and/or the trap) and having less damage on her Q/E but more on her W (so she rely more on stealing summoner spells/items and hitting you in a low range dodging with her movement speed than oneshooting you from 800+range,it'd give her a risky and less frustrating gameplay,but it would still reward good zoe players) >just nerfing her damage while it's like the average of mid laners means making her weak (penalizing too much her mains) but keeping her kit unhealty,again her problem is not the damage itself but HOW she deals it (basically only with her Q,an high range low CD and mana cost skill,and with that she can deal damage without tanking any risk from an insane range) >if you didn't get it now,idk how to explain it anymore
sorry having a near instant unavoidable 2k is not fine. Especially because she tosses it out of vision range so you have zero chance to dodge the damn thing
: Im in love with the new Swain
I actually think he plays much worse over all. his numbers seem way off. His q requires he put himself in danger, but his health is too low for that. His Ult does zero damage unless you have spent the first minute prior gathering soul fragments. His scrying ability is neat, but his grabby hand just seem worse than the previous iteration of nevermove. His ult honestly needs to give him soul fragments, and the cooldown is way to long on it for such a meh ability. On the flip side: He looks cool as hell.
: ***
I would love for you to post your sources that are so outside your echo chamber, because almost all information I have found on generation Z lists them as being fiscally conservative, yet socially liberal. Supporting things such as gender equality (the exact opposite of what your claiming), trangenderism, social services such as universal healthcare and stricter gun control. However you seem to have read a simple headline on an article before jumping to the conclusion the new generation is on the side of the someone with such dated opinions. You can look it up yourself if you care to as a few political forums have already gone about debunking this headline grabber. As someone who has Several Nieces and Nephews as well as siblings that are part of the younger generation, I can tell you right now that they are very liberal on social issues. You have said before in a post that you don't think your right wing oriented opinions are "allowed" in todays society, and I have to ask what makes you think that will change with a newer generation being raised by more and more progressive parents? Your views are dated, your words are volatile and the opinions you state as true facts come off more like an angry old man telling the whippersnappers to get off his lawn. Take a good long look at your life and the directions people are taking. Calm the hell down and stop thinking every change in a life is a personal attack on your way of living. You'll be happier for it.
: ***
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the humble Neanderthal. Not to be confused with the a bridge troll of which it is a close cousin, the Neanderthal says volatile and dated things because it actually believes they are true. Notice the puffed out chest, the furrowed brow and the anger lines along his face. He is a simple creature, capable of little form of advanced thought, yet totally convinced of his own validity and willing to defend those lines of thought with club in hand.
Zerana (NA)
: I'm pretty sure it's just cause I can do math. 2250 gold {{item:3050}} at least 50 bonus magic damage by level 6 assuming you have at least 100 ad and most marksmen do. By endgame, this bonus can double or triple depending on your build 2300 gold {{item:3504}} 5-20 bonus on hit damage, plus 10%-20% attack speed I basically spend 4550 gold and give you between 4000 to 6000 extra gold worth of stats with a heal/sheild/ and a ultimate for 6 seconds. This doesn't even include the bonuses from the champions themselves. Supports make less money but get to give more efficient stats that are worth more than what they put in. If these numbers did not check out there would be no point whatsoever to having the support role you love to hate so much, there would only be botlane mages. This doesn't even cover the bonuses of the heals and shield items which give even more in terms of gold since there are more items devoted to healing than bonus damages.
I think you may have over analyzed it.
darkdill (NA)
: Zoe's Sleep effect bypasses Morgana's shield, and can't be cleansed with Mikael's? No, Riot. NO.
For some reason I just got the biggest justice smirk off reading this. A Morgana Player complaining about being held in CC forever. On that note this seems intended. When you are hit by the "Drowsy" debuff that signifies that you are going to be hit by the effect in X amount of time. If you block the drowsy then fine, no biggie. But if you are already "Drowsy" then the only thing that should remove is a debuff cleanse. In short, nothing changes. Block effect with black shield and you get a free pass, miss the timing and you get nailed. Same as every other ability. If anything I feel Drowsy is a weaker form of CC because you get a moment to actually respond to it, you know...unlike snares that last an eternity and have nonsense hitboxes.
Eedat (NA)
: This new system REALLY isnt friendly to older players.....
Not to mention they removed the ability to reroll champion shards. Really? So now the rewards I get for being max level are shards for shit I can't use, so my only choice is to disenchant it into essence. This patch sucks ass, and it pisses me off riot would even think we would find all this bullshit is okay. I really like opening chests before because it seemed that no matter what the result was, I would be making progress. Even if I didn't get something I wanted I could re roll it into something that could help me progress.
LazyW0lf (NA)
: Is anyone else just not having fun?
I am honestly mad as all fuck. I am not having fun with this shit at all. I seriously hate everything about this update. The tank tree is terrible, the precision tree is stupid good. I feel like I am made of paper and will just get three shot by vayne in every game.
: https://media.tenor.com/images/e8ced98d15a5608a2fc4cdab1f3accdb/tenor.gif
FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
SephAgro (NA)
: > League's controls and perspective don't really accommodate it Why?
Smite is a third person shooter in a sense. You control the character with wasd, aim a camera and fire by left clicking. This means you can totally miss shots if your not aiming directly at the opponent or don't factor in movement. League's basic attacks are automatic. Left clicking a target once moves you into attack range and has you continually attack the target. No real skill or aiming involved.
: That Eve glow-up {{sticker:sg-jinx}}
Yandere Jinx Sticker is so GOOD. {{sticker:sg-jinx}}
: When are melees (that aren't hypermobile and/or CC bots) going to be allowed to enjoy league again?
I actually find myself agreeing with this more and more. With all the dashes, slows, knock ups, shields and % health damage in the game I really don't know what to do with some slower bruisers anymore.
Reav3 (NA)
: That's something we can discuss. I think the lighting is making it look more purple. Her in game model looks much closer to the colors of the teaser as also seen in the last Champion Roadmap teaser.
I think the only real change I would like to see with this is her having no irises similar to her teaser. Her eyes are very distracting in the new splash art and soon almost cartoonish in comparison to the rest.
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JusticePauldrons

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