: Chicken-and-egg debate. TT was a balance mess because Riot [almost] never balanced around it. Riot never balanced around it, because keeping a second game mode balanced would be a ton of extra work. (I forget the patch where they out-right said they will only be balancing the game around SR and any changes otherwise would only be to ensure champions' functionality.) TT Didn't maintain a large player base (relative to SR), because Riot put no effort into maintaining it. Riot put no effort into maintaining it, because it didn't maintain a large player base. New players rarely migrated to TT, because their first hundred games or so where probably them and 5 bots. Riot didn't bother with the bot problem because new players weren't migrating to TT. it's the *exact same debate* made when Riot canned Dominion.
You aren't very bright are you?
: Should have never lasted longer than Dominion.
You shouldn't be posting here.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=QUbbn36A,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T22:17:56.986+0000) > > [You mean this?](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/vGdZE7Td-compendium-of-map-specific-champion-balance) Cause that was all we got. We got a lot more than that. While SR was the primary balance factor, anything that was overbearing in TT was adjusted for a long while. Not to mention the jungle was adjusted multiple times outside of the major map rehaul, same as SR being adjusted. Hell, vilemaw wasnt the original boss of the map, Dragon was.
List these changes. And not the 2012 update that was 7 years ago. Neither the one in 2015. Those were the 2 patches they did for TT in the span of 7 years.
: love the narrative based solely on personal experience that the game was mode was ever significantly popular.
Why wasn't it significantly popular?
: I would pay to play a quality version of league.
Why would you give your money to a filthy Chinese corporation?
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=QUbbn36A,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T19:50:17.327+0000) > > Yea cause that's totally enough to make the mdoe enticing. It got the same treatment SR did at the time.
[You mean this?](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/vGdZE7Td-compendium-of-map-specific-champion-balance) Cause that was all we got.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=QUbbn36A,comment-id=00000000000200000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T19:53:34.104+0000) > > Could it be because people who played the mode see it differently than you and because of that, their opinion carries more weight? I played the mode primarily for over a year, so no.
And yet you're this asinine and simpleminded. It's risible to be honest.
: Oh well, map was hopeless anyways, was only good for hexakill.
: Claiming that your thankful for the TT players but no major patch and being ignored for years on end :)
{{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Spideraxe,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=QUbbn36A,comment-id=000000000002,timestamp=2019-11-06T19:20:18.198+0000) > > You're going to get downvoted because it's an unpopular opinion but you're right Its not unpopular so much as people dont really want to admit it. Same thing happens when a champion like 3 people have ever played more than 10 games on the last year gets reworked.... Suddenly everyone was an urgot main and he was totally fine and loved and needed no changes.
Could it be because people who played the mode see it differently than you and because of that, their opinion carries more weight?
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=QUbbn36A,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T18:56:24.764+0000) > > If you think the 2 patches they did for TT was enough to sustain and encourage players and new players, rethink posting. They did far more than 2 patches. Back then SR didnt have wide, sweeping yearly patches either. That didnt really start til elemental drakes.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Stupie,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=QUbbn36A,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T18:14:49.816+0000) > > i probably played over 2000 games of the original map before rework back when saintvicious was all the hype And i mained TT back when i first started. All the way up to level 30+. I loved TT, but the reality is still even back then support from the community wasnt there. And we even saw champion specific adjustments for TT; nerfing both mundo and singed.
Yea cause that's totally enough to make the mdoe enticing.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Supp me Up,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=QUbbn36A,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-11-06T18:42:44.371+0000) > > I started in s3, during my whole time on LoL, i remember one major change to TfT. They used to have TT specific changes in the patches, but they only had that one major overhaul where they added turrets and changed the jungle layout around. That was back in like, season 4 or 5 dude. The "new" twisted treeline is older than the "old" twisted treeline and they let it rot for years. So please, tell me when did they support it because this is the BEST i can think of regarding support for TT. I started before seasons were a thing. Yeah, there werent many map specific changes to TT, but they did support it and rebalance clear outliers for it. There just werent many active players, and even when they tried to get a small team together to support it full time... It just didnt bring in players. It was more worth it to put the time into aram than into TT.
If you think the 2 patches they did for TT was enough to sustain and encourage players and new players, rethink posting.
: A Thanks to All Twisted Treeline Players
"Thank you" "Have an icon" What a joke.
: Terrible metaphor. Here's a better one. There are three parks, Summoner's Rift, ARAM and Twisted Treeline. Quality wise, TT and SR are of the same standard. They both look good and they both have cool jungle gyms. The only real difference is that TT is a smaller park, with different walk ways around, and a few different landmarks inside. Meanwhile ARAM is a skate-park, a wholly different park than the others, providing a much different experience. Yet despite their similarities, more people attend Summoner's Park. Why? Because more people like Summoner's Park jungle gym, it's just simply better. Because Summoner's Park is more popular, more people host events there, it becomes a better venue. TT on the other hand, has a comparatively worse jungle gym, or more people prefer SR over TT. By all means, the Jungle Gym in TT was pristine, it wasn't out of date. Summoner's Park jungle gym was just better. It doesn't matter if TT got more upkeep to keep the park nice, because no one was going their in the first place but a handful of people. The reason TT never got visitors, isn't because it was run-down or unattended, it was because no one liked the jungle gym. Summoner's Park jungle gym was just better. So the only way you get people to visit TT, is to change the jungle gym in it's entirety. To drastically change it, even if it means the people who previously enjoyed the old jungle gym might not like or recognize it anymore. This is the fundamental problem that you people refuse to realize. Upkeep does not guarantee popularity, nor do events or missions. They spike popularity, but do not retain a fan base.
> [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rBE8oi8t,comment-id=0004000000000000000100020000,timestamp=2019-10-28T02:28:51.635+0000) > > Terrible metaphor. Here's a better one. > > There are three parks, Summoner's Rift, ARAM and Twisted Treeline. Quality wise, TT and SR are of the same standard. They both look good and they both have cool jungle gyms. The only real difference is that TT is a smaller park, with different walk ways around, and a few different landmarks inside. Meanwhile ARAM is a skate-park, a wholly different park than the others, providing a much different experience. > --- [Found this article, sums up the difference of TT & SR perfectly.](https://www.nerfplz.com/2016/11/top-10-ways-twisted-treeline-is.html) >Besides the obvious, the Twisted Treeline map is focused on fighting and pushing objectives early in the game. Invading is a core strategy, and good team synergy often shines brighter than individual skill as a result of stacking crowd-control spells. --- >#Core Differences **Less Lane Farm Oriented** On Summoner's Rift, it's possible to get killed in lane, but still come out ahead simply via out-farming the enemy. However, on Twisted Treeline kills snowball into jungle control, which snowballs into map control, and allows one team to massively out-farm the other. **More Snowball Potential** There are no wards on the map. This means that avoiding the enemy team in jungle can be difficult, especially since objectives cause the enemy to gain sight of you when you stand on them. Even if your laners survive, teams can press an advantage by choking out the enemy jungler's farm, resulting in a 2v3 game. **Faster Paced Games, But Difficult to End** As a result of the ability for enemy teams to choke out farm, it often ends up very one-sided. However, the inner turrets (especially the nexus one) are difficult to siege on compared to the outer turrets. Because of this, winning teams will often have to continue farming before siege if the enemy team simply turtles behind their turrets. **No Wards** The largest difference on this map of course, is the lack of wards. This causes champions like Maokai to be insanely good as a result of the free vision he can provide combined with chokepoint control ability. **More Bush-Camping** On Summoner's Rift, face-checking bushes can be bad, but is generally somewhat safer since there are fewer bushes to hide in and enemies are not always sure it's unwarded. However, on Twisted Treeline, there are few paths to and from lanes. As a result, camping in bushes is a keystone tactic on Twisted Treeline, and often makes or breaks games. **Trinket is Life & Death** The trinket that you are auto-equipped with is exceedingly powerful, and good usage is often the difference between winning and losing a game. Learning its range allows you to check dangerous bushes for enemies, completely negate invisibility champion abilities, and prevent instant losses. **Crowd-Control Stacking 3v2** In a standard 2v2 on bot lane on Summoner's Rift, champions die very quickly if two people stack their crowd-control spells on a single target. Meanwhile, if the jungler happens to be ganking, 3v2s area extremely difficult to turn around. Twisted Treeline feels this way at all times. Any 3v2 fight that breaks out is essentially the same as getting ganked by the enemy jungler from an unwarded river. **Carrying Baddies is Harder** You know how when one lane gets camped players demand the jungler helps to gank it? Well in this case, the jungler better be ganking and counter-ganking 24/7. Similarly, following your lane is extremely important to avoid the awful 2v3. The best way to do this is to make sure the battles focus around your least wary person. That way, they can't help but be in the fight. **Jungle Farm Oriented** As mentioned before, choking out the jungle farm is key to winning any threes game. Beating enemies in lane is great, but jungle camps tend to be more important as a result of their slower spawn time. By taking out the jungler, it also opens up the altars for capture, furthering the gold lead. **No Spawn Timers** Unlike the casual 5s game where spawn timers are explicitly shown, key objectives in this game have hidden timers. Here are the most important ones: Vilemaw: Initial spawn: 10:00, respawn: 6:00 Jungle Monster spawn: 1:35, respawn in 75 sec Altar and Ghost Relic unlock: 3:00, respawn in 1:30 Surrender Time: 15 minutes --- Sounds pretty different. Some of these are arguably cons of the mode but let me know if our proposal solves the cons while also giving TT a more unique flavour. > Yet despite their similarities, more people attend Summoner's Park. Why? Because more people like Summoner's Park jungle gym, **it's just simply better.** Excellent description. A+. > Because Summoner's Park is more popular, more people host events there, it becomes a better venue. Fortnite is more popular than League. Better pack it up and tell players to go play Fortnite instead. >TT on the other hand, has a comparatively worse jungle gym, or more people prefer SR over TT. Your lack of knowledge and understanding of the 2 modes, their differences and similarities is evidenced here. >By all means, the Jungle Gym in TT was pristine, it wasn't out of date. pristine [ˈprisˌtēn, priˈstēn] ADJECTIVE in its original condition; unspoiled. "pristine copies of an early magazine" By that definition, why was it carrying **outdated** SR's jungle assets? > Summoner's Park jungle gym was just better. A+ description once again. > It doesn't matter if TT got more upkeep to keep the park nice, because no one was going their in the first place but a handful of people. The reason TT never got visitors, isn't because it was run-down or unattended, it was because no one liked the jungle gym. Debunked above. Lack of knowledge and understanding again evidenced here. > Summoner's Park jungle gym was just better. I hope you don't use this style of writing in school/work. > > So the only way you get people to visit TT, is to change the jungle gym in it's entirety. To drastically change it, even if it means the people who previously enjoyed the old jungle gym might not like or recognize it anymore. This is the fundamental problem that you people refuse to realize. Have you looked at our proposal? >Upkeep does not guarantee popularity, nor do events or missions. They spike popularity, but do not retain a fan base. Upkeep doesn't guarantee popularity or and increase of such as it's upkeep, not development. Upkeep can however, retain a fan base. **Upkeep** the process of keeping something in good condition. "we will be responsible for the upkeep of the access road" >However, Treeline has always suffered from low queue sizes, even in times when we added new items, map-specific champion balance, and even the Twisted Treeline redesign waaayy back in 2012 >Outside of the player population, Twisted Treeline’s art, map design, and even game pacing don’t meet today’s current quality bar and player needs >https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/07/dev-state-of-modes/ There. Debunked by the company you're carrying water for. Also in his statement is the confession of the lack of upkeep. Why did Tencent expect popularity of a product they didn't offer? Because they didn't want to offer it, they wanted another quick, cheap method of scamming their players.
: “Give TT more missions” “But the reason Nexus Blitz dropped off in popularity is because it had too many missions” You really expect consistency from this lot on here? Expect a lot of “RiP TT” threads when it’s finally gone from players who don’t touch the gamemode.
> [{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rBE8oi8t,comment-id=0004000000000001,timestamp=2019-10-28T00:33:34.453+0000) > > “Give TT more missions” > > “But the reason Nexus Blitz dropped off in popularity is because it had too many missions” > This right here has no consistency. Try again.
: I mean, the guy said nothing about events, i thought we were just talking about normal systems, since TFT's normal system is their loot, while SR/TT/ARAM is BE/EXP. And those events aren't to 'encourage people to play those modes', they're just the two most played gamemodes that everyone enjoys. You'll notice that with TFT's inclusion, and popularity, they were included in quest rewards too. Why? Because it's popular. You people keep working backwards with your logic. You see gamemodes that get quests, rewards and loot and think "Well of course they're popular, they're getting events." You don't stop to think that the reason they get events, is because they're already popular, not the other way around. You move and work according to the majority of the playerbase. And lastly, ARAM existed in a playable, popular state with healthy queues for years without major updates or balancing. If TT wanted to not be a shittier Summoners Rift and actually stand out, it needed extreme, major changes to map and gameplay, not small events or missions that force you to play a shitty gamemode. And that runs the risk of isolating people who liked what TT currently was. Ya'll are delusional if you think balancing or small events/missions would increase TT's shallow playerbase to sustainable levels OUTSIDE of events and missions. Force people to do it for missions, you get a spike, and then people go back to SR and literally anything else. Never in my life have I ever heard anyone say "Oh I don't play TT because I don't get Mastery Tokens."
> [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rBE8oi8t,comment-id=00040000000000000001,timestamp=2019-10-27T21:39:46.578+0000) > > I mean, the guy said nothing about events, i thought we were just talking about normal systems, since TFT's normal system is their loot, while SR/TT/ARAM is BE/EXP. And those events aren't to 'encourage people to play those modes', they're just the two most played gamemodes that everyone enjoys. You'll notice that with TFT's inclusion, and popularity, they were included in quest rewards too. Why? Because it's popular. I wonder if Tencent neglected SR for 7 years if it'd still be popular. > > You people keep working backwards with your logic. You see gamemodes that get quests, rewards and loot and think "Well of course they're popular, they're getting events." You don't stop to think that the reason they get events, is because they're already popular, not the other way around. You move and work according to the majority of the playerbase. > Whoa there bud. I didn't think you should abandon the less popular modes because they're, less popular. Shouldn't those modes be given more attention to lift their status since the others are already popular? > And lastly, ARAM existed in a playable, popular state with healthy queues for years without major updates or balancing. If TT wanted to not be a shittier Summoners Rift and actually stand out, it needed extreme, major changes to map and gameplay, not small events or missions that force you to play a shitty gamemode. And that runs the risk of isolating people who liked what TT currently was. > Is that partly due to TT being left out of missions, missions passes etc. to encourage players to abandon the mode? Is it also due to Rioters not even taking the slightest interest in the mode but encouraging ARAMs over it? And let's say ARAM was still more popular, which is likely, is it because balance matters less in ARAM because it's fuckfest, somewhat like URF whereas TT is a serious mode that required more attention to be sustainable? > Ya'll are delusional if you think balancing or small events/missions would increase TT's shallow playerbase to sustainable levels OUTSIDE of events and missions. Force people to do it for missions, you get a spike, and then people go back to SR and literally anything else. Never in my life have I ever heard anyone say "Oh I don't play TT because I don't get Mastery Tokens." Those are factors that have, as evidenced with Nexus Blitz and the aforementioned, stifled TT. There were many complaints on the boards with regards to TT missions, events and tokens. If you could get all the sweets from SR, whereas you get none in TT, where would you go? [If we wanna talk about what would need to be done in addition to missions / events.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler) Also, these aren't extreme or major updates, they're moderate and they're guaranteed to work. How well it'll work is another question with an obvious answer. What made SR sustainable?
gileskd (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rBE8oi8t,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-10-27T19:26:42.099+0000) > > SR, ARAM and TT all gave EXP/BE/IP, so I don't see your point here. How does all of them sharing the same currency/EXP system discourage folk from playing TT I don't know, maybe all of this discourages this, or encourages other game modes more "summoners rift only" "as a team kill 4 dragons" "as a team kill baron twice" or maybe its them only patching the game mode, what every 2 years? or maybe its the mastery tokens that are only "unlockable" in SR
: If the only reason for playing a mode is for the rewards then the mode itself isn't very interesting or sustainable in the long run
[Maybe we can make it interesting then.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler)
Hi im 12 (EUNE)
: howling abyss is somewhat of a different game from summoners rift since many of the main gameplay elements are completely removed, its kind of like you took out aiming from cs:go while in 3v3 there's just less of everything so its more like cs:go with aim assist.
Would there be less of everything if Tencent added a little uniqueness to it?
: Imagine having to literally reward players to play a gamemode that's existed for years just so it can have a healthy player population. The loot from TFT is there because TFT is an isolated part of League's 'economy', since it doesn't require BE to play, but neither does it give BE and Exp. It's its own system.
Imagine SR and ARAM having the same fucking rewards to encourage players to play those modes while discouraging them from playing TT at the same time. {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}
MagierJo (EUW)
: Please don't remove twisted treeline. So many champs are fun to play in this map exclusively. And it's more fun to play with friends than a summoners rift game. I will be a sad man next season i guess :(
Just quit while you're ahead.
: We've all been dissing riot for a bit now; Now it's time to Appreciate what they're doing
It's all shit lmao. Must say they got me interested for a few minutes though.
: no, hes not bright at all. hes probably gana buy eternals and try to show it off in game like it is some type of achievement. {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
Pxerkza (EUNE)
: there has only been 1 permanent sustainable mode that showed promise and it was ARAM TT Dominion and Nexus blitz were all played exclusively for the novelty factor and events that went with them Dominion had over 20min queues in the year before it was cut TT is filled with leveling bots Nexus blitz was only played a lot because they made the missions grind insane and the fact they reintroduced some wonkey items that quickly people lost interest in DFG? remember that one item that people cried an ocean over? yeah barely anybody bought it i did as well and every item option other than DFG was better they aren't sustainable for them to be sustainable they have to have a healthy player base without incentives something that currently only SR and ARAM have
Is that partly due to TT being left out of missions, missions passes etc. to encourage players to abandon the mode? Is it also due to Rioters not even taking the slightest interest in the mode but encouraging ARAMs over it? And let's say ARAM was still more popular, which is likely, is it because balance matters less in ARAM because it's fuckfest, somewhat like URF whereas TT is a serious mode that required more attention to be sustainable?
Zee Zone (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=c0TsYjY4,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2019-08-26T22:44:07.848+0000) > > [We compiled all the solutions and more that players wanted.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler) They're all fucking liars and scum, the new EA. It's astonishing to see one of the most player-focused companies degrade into a greedy shit company. I'm more than aware of that post. Itvjust makes me sad to see so much effort made by a community (no matter how small it has become) gone to waste like that. Yes it's their product and they're free to do whatever but i can't fathom the idea of having a community so passionate and not even try to listen. They rode the high horse ever since they "got big" in the industry and have never looked back ever since.
Zee Zone (EUW)
: What "ritos stats" are you even talking about?! Riot never published a single stat only general baseless claims. Not a SINGLE statistic was mentioned in their article where they announced the retirement of the mode. Their baseless empty claims consist of, and i quote from Riot themselves: > However, Treeline has always suffered from low queue sizes, even in times when we added new items, map-specific champion balance, and even the Twisted Treeline redesign waaayy back in 2012. Truth: the last large patch (Patch 5.11) for Twisted Treeline was on June 10, 2015 - nearly 4 years ago. Riot never did any updates on purpose and yet are using it as an excuse like it wasn't their doing?! Proof: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/hWms1gJ4-the-neglect-and-subsequent-effects-of-twisted-treeline-3v3 -By RIOT themselves -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > We debated on whether an ARAM-esque level of support would bring it up to standard, but the lack of growth from the previous efforts we mentioned led us to the conclusion that it just wouldn’t be enough to make Treeline a healthy long-term mode. Truth: Again, not a single impactful patch for 4 years. That's when Ekko was released and 20 champions have been releasedm in which none of them was put into consideration when it came to their impact on TT. If that wasn't enough, Riot purposely didn't include the map into missions and you can't get any champion mastery tokens through the map either. Basically isolated from any tangible short term rewards ON PURPOSE mind you. As stated by them before when it came too your beloved Nexus blitz and why it isn't permanent they said: > But when Snowdown ended and the missions turned off for the last two weeks of the run, we saw a huge portion of Nexus Blitz players immediately go back to their usual modes. There was a significant drop in hours played per day, and engagement continued to decline for the rest of the run. So what would you expect form a gamemode that is forbidden form any of this in the first place? Proof: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/04/dev-nexus-blitz-wrap-up/ -By RIOT themselves -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I doubt you even read their own post let alone watched someone elses video (still astonished by how stubborn one can be). With the proof and facts in your face i couldn't care less if you believed it when it's so obvious, so much so that this is my last reply and you can stay ignorant for the rest of your life for all i care, your attitude already tells me enough about how hopeless it is to talk to you to begin with. I'm leaving this to anyone other than you who doesn't have the stubbornness of a brick wall to be informed of what is actually happening. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A link to the vid that you still haven't watched out of stubborness, but in case it was out of laziness here's the link _again_ : https://youtu.be/ETLvf8cy3Es -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edit: You know what's funny? All the bots that infest TT will more than likely hop over and spread throughout ARAM and SR. People are already feeling the impact of the community being divided between SR and TFT, now add to that a huge amount of botting accounts appearing all the sudden. I can't wait for the the people like yourself to start crying here on the boards when their games becomes infested by bots to the point where league becomes unplayable. Ya'll gonna be crying for Riot to either bring back TT or fix the botting problem both of which will definitely take a huge amount of time and will be one hell of a few weeks. I'd pay to see your faces but i'll be satisfied by the cries on the forums xD
{{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
: Life without League: One Year Later
Zee Zone (EUW)
: What "ritos stats" are you even talking about?! Riot never published a single stat only general baseless claims. Not a SINGLE statistic was mentioned in their article where they announced the retirement of the mode. Their baseless empty claims consist of, and i quote from Riot themselves: > However, Treeline has always suffered from low queue sizes, even in times when we added new items, map-specific champion balance, and even the Twisted Treeline redesign waaayy back in 2012. Truth: the last large patch (Patch 5.11) for Twisted Treeline was on June 10, 2015 - nearly 4 years ago. Riot never did any updates on purpose and yet are using it as an excuse like it wasn't their doing?! Proof: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/hWms1gJ4-the-neglect-and-subsequent-effects-of-twisted-treeline-3v3 -By RIOT themselves -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > We debated on whether an ARAM-esque level of support would bring it up to standard, but the lack of growth from the previous efforts we mentioned led us to the conclusion that it just wouldn’t be enough to make Treeline a healthy long-term mode. Truth: Again, not a single impactful patch for 4 years. That's when Ekko was released and 20 champions have been releasedm in which none of them was put into consideration when it came to their impact on TT. If that wasn't enough, Riot purposely didn't include the map into missions and you can't get any champion mastery tokens through the map either. Basically isolated from any tangible short term rewards ON PURPOSE mind you. As stated by them before when it came too your beloved Nexus blitz and why it isn't permanent they said: > But when Snowdown ended and the missions turned off for the last two weeks of the run, we saw a huge portion of Nexus Blitz players immediately go back to their usual modes. There was a significant drop in hours played per day, and engagement continued to decline for the rest of the run. So what would you expect form a gamemode that is forbidden form any of this in the first place? Proof: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/04/dev-nexus-blitz-wrap-up/ -By RIOT themselves -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I doubt you even read their own post let alone watched someone elses video (still astonished by how stubborn one can be). With the proof and facts in your face i couldn't care less if you believed it when it's so obvious, so much so that this is my last reply and you can stay ignorant for the rest of your life for all i care, your attitude already tells me enough about how hopeless it is to talk to you to begin with. I'm leaving this to anyone other than you who doesn't have the stubbornness of a brick wall to be informed of what is actually happening. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A link to the vid that you still haven't watched out of stubborness, but in case it was out of laziness here's the link _again_ : https://youtu.be/ETLvf8cy3Es -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edit: You know what's funny? All the bots that infest TT will more than likely hop over and spread throughout ARAM and SR. People are already feeling the impact of the community being divided between SR and TFT, now add to that a huge amount of botting accounts appearing all the sudden. I can't wait for the the people like yourself to start crying here on the boards when their games becomes infested by bots to the point where league becomes unplayable. Ya'll gonna be crying for Riot to either bring back TT or fix the botting problem both of which will definitely take a huge amount of time and will be one hell of a few weeks. I'd pay to see your faces but i'll be satisfied by the cries on the forums xD
Yes. Also pigs fly and Donald Trump is black.
Pxerkza (EUNE)
: yes? thats how you make people comming for more what do you want oddyssey to stay forever and to have 60 minute queues until some poor sap missclicks on queue for it?
Events =/= permanent sustainable modes. Don't get the 2 confused.
Zee Zone (EUW)
: Big rip for _**2019**_ hence the statement that TFT hindered the making of game modes _this_ year still holds strong. No one claimed they will never make gamemodes again, please open your eyes and read properly so that you don't embarrass yourself again ;) Edit: someone is salty down voting all my comments xD Can you be more see through? I can replace you with a glas panel at this point xP
RGMs ain't coming back because they can't be the greedy ass fuckers and milk players dry with them like TFT Little Legends. Come to think of it, they'll likely return with some scummy cash grab. I hope it does tbh, piss the players off even more and make more leave until their revenue drops to record low.
Jesi Oni (EUNE)
: Don't care Rift for life
Yes continue to fund their shit. Spend your life savings on them while you're at it. Give them your soul too.
Zee Zone (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=c0TsYjY4,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-26T13:25:50.656+0000) > > Because Riot killed off a gamemode that was beyond saving, and was never able to be saved in the first place, as much as people seem to think that balance changes would have actually saved the piece of shit map that was TT. So clearly that means Riot's never going to release another gamemode besides TFT ever, or something. I love how you treat opinion as fact and treat is as suck without any proof. https://youtu.be/ETLvf8cy3Es ^ THIS is called proof using facts, where is yours?
[We compiled all the solutions and more that players wanted.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler) They're all fucking liars and scum, the new EA. It's astonishing to see one of the most player-focused companies degrade into a greedy shit company.
: Because Riot killed off a gamemode that was beyond saving, and was never able to be saved in the first place, as much as people seem to think that balance changes would have actually saved the piece of shit map that was TT. So clearly that means Riot's never going to release another gamemode besides TFT ever, or something.
[Lend me your thoughts on this.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler)
Pxerkza (EUNE)
: and they have also said that they will make more game modes in the future that come with events next argument please
Yes, make game modes, let people play them, progress in them, get attached to them and then remove it.
Meddler (NA)
: Yeah, definitely open to that. Can't make any promises on when, but TT being retired as a normal mode shouldn't impact potential to run Hexakill on it again. From what we've seen that's generally the preferred map for Hexakill by Hexakill players, so if bringing it back would want to start by trying it there.
Any plans to retire any more modes in ~3 years?
rujitra (NA)
: Rule Clarification
I love whales. * Humpback whales * Blue Whales * Fin Whales * Sei Whales * North Atlantic Right Whales * Bowhead Whales * Southern Right Whales * North Pacific Right Whales * Bryde's Whales * Gray Whales * Omura's Whales * Common Minke Whales * Gray Whales * Sperm Whales And more. I also feel like identifying as a Sperm Whale today. So please, address as such or maybe just Whale for short. 😄
: ah uluanopo a herald that got promoted only cause his previous rank went away
> [{quoted}](name=iamthegoatofwar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gBlRNi8p,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-08-22T18:30:16.170+0000) > > ah uluanopo a herald that got promoted only cause his previous rank went away +1.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gBlRNi8p,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-22T18:04:27.464+0000) > > Riot doesn't oversee anything and neither does Tencent unless it relates to Yen. You mean Renminbi?
> [{quoted}](name=MunchingDragon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gBlRNi8p,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-08-22T18:28:56.226+0000) > > You mean Renminbi? Nope.
: Tfw the mods insist there is Riot oversight, but you've been waiting 2 months for Riot to respond
Riot doesn't oversee anything and neither does Tencent unless it relates to Renminbi.
: > [{quoted}](name=Shieda Kayn,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=lBpb5K09,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-21T16:38:07.866+0000) > > Honestly they implemented them to HA, there's nothing stopping them to think up some annoying bullshit to tarnish other maps with them too Easy, have your little legends sit on your dead body after you die until you respawn Or curled around your ward Or line them all up on Baron/Dragon ledge depending on team Or stop selling them for rp
[Or this.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler)
: Plays a free game. Demands free stuff and moans when the developers try to make money Makes sense. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Eohdii0H,comment-id=00070004,timestamp=2019-08-20T18:42:55.780+0000) > > You spent 6 months on a useless cash grab feature instead of fixing the hundreds of bugs plaguing the client and frustrating players. I don't even care if you're on a different team the resources allocated to this would have been 1000x more beneficial and tangible they if were allocated to the client. > > If you couldn't come up with a way to make things interesting then why even bother? Kill 2 people with your ult, as if that's remotely satisfying or skillful. It's a glorified double kill, if that. Might as well just beef up the kill announcements and call it a day. > > Seriously though, you guys justify removing TT because it isn't worth the resources but spend it on this. Riot is becoming EA. Disagree all you want, but their actions prove that it is true.
> [{quoted}](name=John Westlin,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Eohdii0H,comment-id=000700040000,timestamp=2019-08-21T06:49:57.462+0000) > > Riot is becoming EA. Disagree all you want, but their actions prove that it is true. Riot became the new EA.
floo (EUW)
: But can they sell Little Legends? Checkmate.
[Yes they can. Lots of 'em.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler)
PzyXo (EUW)
: "*But... it doesn't give us money*"
[It could have.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler)
: Event passes are not a cash grab You get more value out of them than what they cost as long as you are playing the game. They also make prestige skins more reasonable to get over time, its a progression thing. I'd argue prestige skins are less of a cash grab than hextech skins. However, with both, you can buy progression, it just costs more because they wanted you to put time into earning them. Low quality skins would be the worst cashgrab ever, if it is low quality, compared to everything else available, less people would buy it compared to the amount of time (and therefore money) that went into it. Loot boxes, and Little Legends I cannot defend though. You should know what you are getting for your money, I greatly dislike RNG you have to pay for. Freely earned in game? sure. Pay money to take a spin? no way.
> [{quoted}](name=Cry4 Azykan,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2019-08-20T19:22:25.066+0000) > > Event passes are not a cash grab Mhm. So all the borders, icons and all that shit that you have spend extra for instead of getting it when you buy the skin? Yea that's a cash grab. > You get more value out of them than what they cost as long as you are playing the game. Pay to play the game to acquire content..... > They also make prestige skins more reasonable to get over time, its a progression thing. I'd argue prestige skins are less of a cash grab than hextech skins. However, with both, you can buy progression, it just costs more because they wanted you to put time into earning them. > Yes a low quality chroma is certainly worth the amount of time and money. Fucking cash grab. > Low quality skins would be the worst cashgrab ever, if it is low quality, compared to everything else available, less people would buy it compared to the amount of time (and therefore money) that went into it. > It doesn't matter because whatever they dish out little kiddies will spend their mommy's money on to feel good. > Loot boxes, and Little Legends I cannot defend though. You should know what you are getting for your money, I greatly dislike RNG you have to pay for. Freely earned in game? sure. Pay money to take a spin? no way. At least we agree on something.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=000000130000,timestamp=2019-08-20T19:05:56.615+0000) > > This is Tencent we're talking about. > > They're not gonna stop until the milk everything dry. well then i sure hope they know how to milk non-existing players because if they go down this way there will be nothing left to milk
> [{quoted}](name=MirirLightHammer,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=0000001300000000,timestamp=2019-08-20T19:17:05.241+0000) > > well then i sure hope they know how to milk non-existing players because if they go down this way there will be nothing left to milk They'll think of something. It'd be too late but they'd still think about it.
: Difficult **TO YOU.** Boring **TO YOU.** Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
* RNG fuck fest * Loot box infested. * Depressing gameplay Thank you for coming to MY TED talk. I agree with Rowanstar. Now, please leave my TED talk.
: we? are you speaking on behalf of the community or the voices in your head?
: > [{quoted}](name=Bazerka,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-19T21:32:33.810+0000) > > I'd assume (emphasizing the **assume** part here) that the team is taking their time in how they want to respond. Imo I'd rather receive a slow, but well thought out response than a quick and dirty one. Emotions tend to run high in situations like these, and no one wants to say something they might regret :) well, let's hope that answer is "sorry, it was a stupid idea, we will not make people pay for tally counters"
> [{quoted}](name=MirirLightHammer,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=00000013,timestamp=2019-08-20T19:03:22.987+0000) > > well, let's hope that answer is "sorry, it was a stupid idea, we will not make people pay for tally counters" This is Tencent we're talking about. > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=000300000005,timestamp=2019-08-20T18:52:40.914+0000) > > * Loot boxes are a cash grab. > * Prestige skins are a cash grab. > * Lower quality skins are a cash grab. > * Event passes are a cash grab. > * Little Legends are a cash grab. They're not gonna stop until the milk everything dry.
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Kürama

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