Zee Zone (EUW)
: What "ritos stats" are you even talking about?! Riot never published a single stat only general baseless claims. Not a SINGLE statistic was mentioned in their article where they announced the retirement of the mode. Their baseless empty claims consist of, and i quote from Riot themselves: > However, Treeline has always suffered from low queue sizes, even in times when we added new items, map-specific champion balance, and even the Twisted Treeline redesign waaayy back in 2012. Truth: the last large patch (Patch 5.11) for Twisted Treeline was on June 10, 2015 - nearly 4 years ago. Riot never did any updates on purpose and yet are using it as an excuse like it wasn't their doing?! Proof: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/hWms1gJ4-the-neglect-and-subsequent-effects-of-twisted-treeline-3v3 -By RIOT themselves -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > We debated on whether an ARAM-esque level of support would bring it up to standard, but the lack of growth from the previous efforts we mentioned led us to the conclusion that it just wouldn’t be enough to make Treeline a healthy long-term mode. Truth: Again, not a single impactful patch for 4 years. That's when Ekko was released and 20 champions have been releasedm in which none of them was put into consideration when it came to their impact on TT. If that wasn't enough, Riot purposely didn't include the map into missions and you can't get any champion mastery tokens through the map either. Basically isolated from any tangible short term rewards ON PURPOSE mind you. As stated by them before when it came too your beloved Nexus blitz and why it isn't permanent they said: > But when Snowdown ended and the missions turned off for the last two weeks of the run, we saw a huge portion of Nexus Blitz players immediately go back to their usual modes. There was a significant drop in hours played per day, and engagement continued to decline for the rest of the run. So what would you expect form a gamemode that is forbidden form any of this in the first place? Proof: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/04/dev-nexus-blitz-wrap-up/ -By RIOT themselves -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I doubt you even read their own post let alone watched someone elses video (still astonished by how stubborn one can be). With the proof and facts in your face i couldn't care less if you believed it when it's so obvious, so much so that this is my last reply and you can stay ignorant for the rest of your life for all i care, your attitude already tells me enough about how hopeless it is to talk to you to begin with. I'm leaving this to anyone other than you who doesn't have the stubbornness of a brick wall to be informed of what is actually happening. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A link to the vid that you still haven't watched out of stubborness, but in case it was out of laziness here's the link _again_ : https://youtu.be/ETLvf8cy3Es -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Edit: You know what's funny? All the bots that infest TT will more than likely hop over and spread throughout ARAM and SR. People are already feeling the impact of the community being divided between SR and TFT, now add to that a huge amount of botting accounts appearing all the sudden. I can't wait for the the people like yourself to start crying here on the boards when their games becomes infested by bots to the point where league becomes unplayable. Ya'll gonna be crying for Riot to either bring back TT or fix the botting problem both of which will definitely take a huge amount of time and will be one hell of a few weeks. I'd pay to see your faces but i'll be satisfied by the cries on the forums xD
Yes. Also pigs fly and Donald Trump is black.
Pxerkza (EUNE)
: yes? thats how you make people comming for more what do you want oddyssey to stay forever and to have 60 minute queues until some poor sap missclicks on queue for it?
Events =/= permanent sustainable modes. Don't get the 2 confused.
Zee Zone (EUW)
: Big rip for _**2019**_ hence the statement that TFT hindered the making of game modes _this_ year still holds strong. No one claimed they will never make gamemodes again, please open your eyes and read properly so that you don't embarrass yourself again ;) Edit: someone is salty down voting all my comments xD Can you be more see through? I can replace you with a glas panel at this point xP
RGMs ain't coming back because they can't be the greedy ass fuckers and milk players dry with them like TFT Little Legends. Come to think of it, they'll likely return with some scummy cash grab. I hope it does tbh, piss the players off even more and make more leave until their revenue drops to record low.
Jesi Oni (EUNE)
: Don't care Rift for life
Yes continue to fund their shit. Spend your life savings on them while you're at it. Give them your soul too.
Zee Zone (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=c0TsYjY4,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-26T13:25:50.656+0000) > > Because Riot killed off a gamemode that was beyond saving, and was never able to be saved in the first place, as much as people seem to think that balance changes would have actually saved the piece of shit map that was TT. So clearly that means Riot's never going to release another gamemode besides TFT ever, or something. I love how you treat opinion as fact and treat is as suck without any proof. https://youtu.be/ETLvf8cy3Es ^ THIS is called proof using facts, where is yours?
[We compiled all the solutions and more that players wanted.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler) They're all fucking liars and scum, the new EA. It's astonishing to see one of the most player-focused companies degrade into a greedy shit company.
: Because Riot killed off a gamemode that was beyond saving, and was never able to be saved in the first place, as much as people seem to think that balance changes would have actually saved the piece of shit map that was TT. So clearly that means Riot's never going to release another gamemode besides TFT ever, or something.
[Lend me your thoughts on this.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler)
Pxerkza (EUNE)
: and they have also said that they will make more game modes in the future that come with events next argument please
Yes, make game modes, let people play them, progress in them, get attached to them and then remove it.
Meddler (NA)
: Yeah, definitely open to that. Can't make any promises on when, but TT being retired as a normal mode shouldn't impact potential to run Hexakill on it again. From what we've seen that's generally the preferred map for Hexakill by Hexakill players, so if bringing it back would want to start by trying it there.
Any plans to retire any more modes in ~3 years?
rujitra (NA)
: Rule Clarification
I love whales. * Humpback whales * Blue Whales * Fin Whales * Sei Whales * North Atlantic Right Whales * Bowhead Whales * Southern Right Whales * North Pacific Right Whales * Bryde's Whales * Gray Whales * Omura's Whales * Common Minke Whales * Gray Whales * Sperm Whales And more. I also feel like identifying as a Sperm Whale today. So please, address as such or maybe just Whale for short. 😄
: ah uluanopo a herald that got promoted only cause his previous rank went away
> [{quoted}](name=iamthegoatofwar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gBlRNi8p,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-08-22T18:30:16.170+0000) > > ah uluanopo a herald that got promoted only cause his previous rank went away +1.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gBlRNi8p,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-22T18:04:27.464+0000) > > Riot doesn't oversee anything and neither does Tencent unless it relates to Yen. You mean Renminbi?
> [{quoted}](name=MunchingDragon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gBlRNi8p,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-08-22T18:28:56.226+0000) > > You mean Renminbi? Nope.
: Tfw the mods insist there is Riot oversight, but you've been waiting 2 months for Riot to respond
Riot doesn't oversee anything and neither does Tencent unless it relates to Renminbi.
: > [{quoted}](name=Shieda Kayn,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=lBpb5K09,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-08-21T16:38:07.866+0000) > > Honestly they implemented them to HA, there's nothing stopping them to think up some annoying bullshit to tarnish other maps with them too Easy, have your little legends sit on your dead body after you die until you respawn Or curled around your ward Or line them all up on Baron/Dragon ledge depending on team Or stop selling them for rp
[Or this.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler)
: Plays a free game. Demands free stuff and moans when the developers try to make money Makes sense. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Eohdii0H,comment-id=00070004,timestamp=2019-08-20T18:42:55.780+0000) > > You spent 6 months on a useless cash grab feature instead of fixing the hundreds of bugs plaguing the client and frustrating players. I don't even care if you're on a different team the resources allocated to this would have been 1000x more beneficial and tangible they if were allocated to the client. > > If you couldn't come up with a way to make things interesting then why even bother? Kill 2 people with your ult, as if that's remotely satisfying or skillful. It's a glorified double kill, if that. Might as well just beef up the kill announcements and call it a day. > > Seriously though, you guys justify removing TT because it isn't worth the resources but spend it on this. Riot is becoming EA. Disagree all you want, but their actions prove that it is true.
> [{quoted}](name=John Westlin,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Eohdii0H,comment-id=000700040000,timestamp=2019-08-21T06:49:57.462+0000) > > Riot is becoming EA. Disagree all you want, but their actions prove that it is true. Riot became the new EA.
floo (EUW)
: But can they sell Little Legends? Checkmate.
[Yes they can. Lots of 'em.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler)
PzyXo (EUW)
: "*But... it doesn't give us money*"
[It could have.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler)
: Event passes are not a cash grab You get more value out of them than what they cost as long as you are playing the game. They also make prestige skins more reasonable to get over time, its a progression thing. I'd argue prestige skins are less of a cash grab than hextech skins. However, with both, you can buy progression, it just costs more because they wanted you to put time into earning them. Low quality skins would be the worst cashgrab ever, if it is low quality, compared to everything else available, less people would buy it compared to the amount of time (and therefore money) that went into it. Loot boxes, and Little Legends I cannot defend though. You should know what you are getting for your money, I greatly dislike RNG you have to pay for. Freely earned in game? sure. Pay money to take a spin? no way.
> [{quoted}](name=Cry4 Azykan,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2019-08-20T19:22:25.066+0000) > > Event passes are not a cash grab Mhm. So all the borders, icons and all that shit that you have spend extra for instead of getting it when you buy the skin? Yea that's a cash grab. > You get more value out of them than what they cost as long as you are playing the game. Pay to play the game to acquire content..... > They also make prestige skins more reasonable to get over time, its a progression thing. I'd argue prestige skins are less of a cash grab than hextech skins. However, with both, you can buy progression, it just costs more because they wanted you to put time into earning them. > Yes a low quality chroma is certainly worth the amount of time and money. Fucking cash grab. > Low quality skins would be the worst cashgrab ever, if it is low quality, compared to everything else available, less people would buy it compared to the amount of time (and therefore money) that went into it. > It doesn't matter because whatever they dish out little kiddies will spend their mommy's money on to feel good. > Loot boxes, and Little Legends I cannot defend though. You should know what you are getting for your money, I greatly dislike RNG you have to pay for. Freely earned in game? sure. Pay money to take a spin? no way. At least we agree on something.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=000000130000,timestamp=2019-08-20T19:05:56.615+0000) > > This is Tencent we're talking about. > > They're not gonna stop until the milk everything dry. well then i sure hope they know how to milk non-existing players because if they go down this way there will be nothing left to milk
> [{quoted}](name=MirirLightHammer,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=0000001300000000,timestamp=2019-08-20T19:17:05.241+0000) > > well then i sure hope they know how to milk non-existing players because if they go down this way there will be nothing left to milk They'll think of something. It'd be too late but they'd still think about it.
: Difficult **TO YOU.** Boring **TO YOU.** Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
* RNG fuck fest * Loot box infested. * Depressing gameplay Thank you for coming to MY TED talk. I agree with Rowanstar. Now, please leave my TED talk.
: we? are you speaking on behalf of the community or the voices in your head?
: > [{quoted}](name=Bazerka,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-08-19T21:32:33.810+0000) > > I'd assume (emphasizing the **assume** part here) that the team is taking their time in how they want to respond. Imo I'd rather receive a slow, but well thought out response than a quick and dirty one. Emotions tend to run high in situations like these, and no one wants to say something they might regret :) well, let's hope that answer is "sorry, it was a stupid idea, we will not make people pay for tally counters"
> [{quoted}](name=MirirLightHammer,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=00000013,timestamp=2019-08-20T19:03:22.987+0000) > > well, let's hope that answer is "sorry, it was a stupid idea, we will not make people pay for tally counters" This is Tencent we're talking about. > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=000300000005,timestamp=2019-08-20T18:52:40.914+0000) > > * Loot boxes are a cash grab. > * Prestige skins are a cash grab. > * Lower quality skins are a cash grab. > * Event passes are a cash grab. > * Little Legends are a cash grab. They're not gonna stop until the milk everything dry.
Bazerka (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Neekophile,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-08-19T22:19:00.345+0000) > > Riot is they type to let money speak for itself. > > If it makes cash. They will continue to add and repair. > > If it doesnt, they still try by tagging it as a bundle for skins. > (like skin+Rewards+and More Quests) > (Event Pass+ 1 Champions rewards unlocked) > > If it still doesnt. They just kill it and refund in blue essence and make the next "Get rich quick" schemes. > While making excuses (Ah, its not compatible with the new failure of a client.) I'd argue that Runes Reforged didn't make us a single dime, and in fact cost us **massively** in time, effort, resources, and yes $$. Often times yes, we need to make money. Servers, engineers, designers, networking, electricity, rent all cost money and we need to make it. But I think I'm right in saying it doesn't drive every decision we make. Imo its an over generalization to say that everything is a money grab :\.
> [{quoted}](name=Bazerka,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-08-19T23:01:16.480+0000) > > I'd argue that Runes Reforged didn't make us a single dime, and in fact cost us **massively** in time, effort, resources, and yes $$. Often times yes, we need to make money. Servers, engineers, designers, networking, electricity, rent all cost money and we need to make it. But I think I'm right in saying it doesn't drive every decision we make. Imo its an over generalization to say that everything is a money grab :\. * Loot boxes are a cash grab. * Prestige skins are a cash grab. * Lower quality skins are a cash grab. * Event passes are a cash grab. * Little Legends are a cash grab.
Bazerka (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=BlackKnightJack,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2019-08-19T21:59:28.752+0000) > > The shit show is the best when they give quick responses, though. You tend to see what they really think and how they really feel when they do that. Spewing out corporate bullshit is pointless because no one buys it anyway. Personally its never really corporate speak from us (at least I've never seen it / interpreted it that way, but it certainly could). However, as I mentioned it is **highly emotional**. Strong reactions are painful since the people that this negative sentiment is being aimed at (and often times insults which I think are totally uncalled for) have worked **incredibly hard** for months if not years to make a thing. They put in their love, passion, hope, joy, and care into making something they hope players (y'all) will love. To see the community not match how they feel is tough (notice I'm not saying incorrect, just saying its tough). The time delay is simply to give the team a moment to breath, collect their thoughts, and respond. Thats never a bad thing to do IMO. Just my thoughts as someone working to make something that I hope players will love as much as I do :) (I'm not nervous, you're nervous!)
> [{quoted}](name=Bazerka,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=eKtfBnRu,comment-id=000000030001,timestamp=2019-08-19T22:59:23.154+0000) > > Personally its never really corporate speak from us (at least I've never seen it / interpreted it that way, but it certainly could). However, as I mentioned it is **highly emotional**. Strong reactions are painful since the people that this negative sentiment is being aimed at (and often times insults which I think are totally uncalled for) have worked **incredibly hard** for months if not years to make a thing. They put in their love, passion, hope, joy, and care into making something they hope players (y'all) will love. To see the community not match how they feel is tough (notice I'm not saying incorrect, just saying its tough). The time delay is simply to give the team a moment to breath, collect their thoughts, and respond. Thats never a bad thing to do IMO. > > Just my thoughts as someone working to make something that I hope players will love as much as I do :) (I'm not nervous, you're nervous!) There were times that I didn't meet the bar that my customers / supervisors expected even though I gave it my all. Either I scrapped it and started from scratch or modified it heavily to make it work. I owned it, understood their viewpoint and fixed it. Y'all don't do that anymore.
: Hi Void - thanks for taking the time to write this up! It's a really thoughtful post and I loved reading through it. I'm the Product Lead on Eternals, and I wanted to address some of the points brought up in this thread, because we talked about all of these points at length during development: * We discussed tying this into Mastery a bunch, but ultimately landed on making Eternals adjacent to the system because Mastery doesn't have any kind of RP value attached to it. It's a system that was built to be evergreen once for all champions ever, and Eternals has a roadmap that extends beyond the first set we release. We split the difference with Mastery Emote Upgrades (fun fact: we actually were unsure about this idea early in development, but players in our early playtests suggested it consistently as something they wanted). * Regarding the difficulty of certain Eternals, we want to find a happy balance that leans more towards "represents skillful play" than "ridiculously difficult". Some of the original Eternals we designed were almost never incrementing in our playtests, which resulted in players feeling like the system either wasn't working or getting very little satisfaction from the progression. We DO want to make tricky Eternals, but they need to be something that the player mostly has control over, like iiGazeii's suggestion of Jhin grenades hit after killing 3 units prior. * Regarding price, we're taking steps on this. You'll hear more soon. * For rewards from Eternals, I'd love to open up this discussion to the group: **What rewards for rekindling sets would you think would be satisfying?** BEFORE YOU ANSWER, I'm afraid I have to put a few limitations on you to make sure we don't annihilate scope / make Eternals feel good by tacking on another content type as a reward. Try to think of something that feels self-contained, and usable on the champion regardless of the skin they choose. That means no skins, no chromas. Other than that, hit me. Again, thanks for this thread. It's been really fun to read through this. I'm excited to share updates with you all soon. Cheers, Adriaan
> [{quoted}](name=KenAdamsNSA,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Eohdii0H,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-08-20T18:01:54.409+0000) > > Hi Void - thanks for taking the time to write this up! It's a really thoughtful post and I loved reading through it. > > I'm the Product Lead on Eternals, and I wanted to address some of the points brought up in this thread, because we talked about all of these points at length during development: > > * We discussed tying this into Mastery a bunch, but ultimately landed on making Eternals adjacent to the system because Mastery doesn't have any kind of RP value attached to it. It's a system that was built to be evergreen once for all champions ever, and Eternals has a roadmap that extends beyond the first set we release. We split the difference with Mastery Emote Upgrades (fun fact: we actually were unsure about this idea early in development, but players in our early playtests suggested it consistently as something they wanted). > > * Regarding the difficulty of certain Eternals, we want to find a happy balance that leans more towards "represents skillful play" than "ridiculously difficult". Some of the original Eternals we designed were almost never incrementing in our playtests, which resulted in players feeling like the system either wasn't working or getting very little satisfaction from the progression. We DO want to make tricky Eternals, but they need to be something that the player mostly has control over, like iiGazeii's suggestion of Jhin grenades hit after killing 3 units prior. > > * Regarding price, we're taking steps on this. You'll hear more soon. > > * For rewards from Eternals, I'd love to open up this discussion to the group: **What rewards for rekindling sets would you think would be satisfying?** BEFORE YOU ANSWER, I'm afraid I have to put a few limitations on you to make sure we don't annihilate scope / make Eternals feel good by tacking on another content type as a reward. Try to think of something that feels self-contained, and usable on the champion regardless of the skin they choose. That means no skins, no chromas. Other than that, hit me. > > Again, thanks for this thread. It's been really fun to read through this. I'm excited to share updates with you all soon. > > Cheers, > > Adriaan You spent 6 months on a useless cash grab feature instead of fixing the hundreds of bugs plaguing the client and frustrating players. I don't even care if you're on a different team the resources allocated to this would have been 1000x more beneficial and tangible they if were allocated to the client. If you couldn't come up with a way to make things interesting then why even bother? Kill 2 people with your ult, as if that's remotely satisfying or skillful. It's a glorified double kill, if that. Might as well just beef up the kill announcements and call it a day. Seriously though, you guys justify removing TT because it isn't worth the resources but spend it on this.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nzu4FmlK,comment-id=000a0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-20T13:06:12.657+0000) > > I understand it's hard for someone who refuses or is incapable of understanding, to understand. It's alright, I empathize. I understand you ran outta arguments, but trying to attack my capabilities isn't gonna make anyone agree with you. > Somebody hasn't played TT. I actually have but i suppose this just comes down to what i said earlier. > No because it won't be a bullshit cash grab like Eternals or loot box-based TFT Little Legends. Do you see people bitching about the skins they can buy? If anything it's either the lack of skins for a particular champ or untapped potential in a particular skin. I genuinly don't see how champion skins affect 3v3 more than other modes like aram and 5v5 which have a bigger audience who also buy skins. People want lux/ezreal/etc skins, it's why there's so many of em. These boards aren't really an accurate representation as people initially come here to voice their grievances half the time. i don't see what this has to do with monetizing 3v3. Eternals weren't even anounced when i made this and aren't limited to any mode afaik, i ain't gonna argue in their favour as i have no interest in em at all. > But you don't pay attention to the boards so you wouldn't know. https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/018/489/nick-young-confused-face-300x256-nqlyaa.jpg > It didn't because it wasn't promoted. This painfully obvious point isn't that hard to grasp. > Yes, leaving TT out of event passes, missions, no TT specific balance changes or items for 5 years hasn't worked well for TT. Of course it hasn't. > Except people do play it, so it's not a waste of space? Idk why it wasn't in the missions, but it's not like they were aram friendly at the start either and the mode still held up. Aram also went through a long period where it wasn't touched and still survived. even now plenty of missions can't be completed in aram, even less in tft. The stats are available to everyone. 3v3 Barely pulls any players compared to other modes. Bots and Customs are a bigger part of the playerbase. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/k0OgvRkx-quick-gameplay-thoughts-october-10 > Maybe you're the waste of space and you haven't noticed. idk man, riot ain't removing my favourite mode are they? What i do know is that you're being a waste of my time.
> [{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nzu4FmlK,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-20T18:09:22.052+0000) > > I understand you ran outta arguments, but trying to attack my capabilities isn't gonna make anyone agree with you. > Have I? > I actually have but i suppose this just comes down to what i said earlier. > Hmm. I think not. > I genuinly don't see how champion skins affect 3v3 more than other modes like aram and 5v5 which have a bigger audience who also buy skins. > People want lux/ezreal/etc skins, it's why there's so many of em. These boards aren't really an accurate representation as people initially come here to voice their grievances half the time. i don't see what this has to do with monetizing 3v3. > Eternals weren't even anounced when i made this and aren't limited to any mode afaik, i ain't gonna argue in their favour as i have no interest in em at all. > Ah, you misunderstood but you always do. > https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/018/489/nick-young-confused-face-300x256-nqlyaa.jpg > Don't become discombobulated. > Idk why it wasn't in the missions, but it's not like they were aram friendly at the start either and the mode still held up. Aram also went through a long period where it wasn't touched and still survived. even now plenty of missions can't be completed in aram, even less in tft. > The same goes for TT though but hey, what are facts? > The stats are available to everyone. 3v3 Barely pulls any players compared to other modes. Bots and Customs are a bigger part of the playerbase. > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/k0OgvRkx-quick-gameplay-thoughts-october-10 > Is that partly due to TT being left out of missions, missions passes etc. to encourage players to abandon the mode? Is it also due to Rioters not even taking the slightest interest in the mode but encouraging ARAMs over it? And let's say ARAM was still more popular, as seen in the chart, is it because balance matters less in ARAM because it's fuckfest, somewhat like URF whereas TT is a serious mode that required more attention to be sustainable? > idk man, riot ain't removing my favourite mode are they? What i do know is that you're being a waste of my time. Thank you for your time. :)
: > [{quoted}](name=oLnPeVerna,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JRFyKia5,comment-id=000900000001,timestamp=2019-08-20T11:16:57.769+0000) Maybe if this community didn't make wild assumptions about Rioters, they'd post more. I'm pretty sure none of the Rioters here have anything to do with the actual game, and if they do, its probably not anything this community is complaining about. Its not their jobs to comment on stuff that doesn't pertain to them. The only reason why Bazerka does is because they're trying to encourage us to give more feedback, but even then, they have to constantly remind us that they aren't involved with League's development. They shouldn't have to say that. This community should be smart enough to at least look at their job title and say "Hey, this Rioter is a Recruiter, so maybe I shouldn't spam them about removing TT." or some shit like that. But, by all means, continue to think that all Rioters are the same and that they all contribute to the development of the shitshow that is League. Keep asking narrative writers, artists, composers, the support team, ect, when TT is coming back, or when they're removing Eternals, or when they're going to fix the client, ect. Keep being a part of the problem that keeps Rioters away. Let me know when you want to make it more welcoming for them here.
> [{quoted}](name=4 Step Cadence,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=JRFyKia5,comment-id=0009000000010000,timestamp=2019-08-20T13:03:09.523+0000) > > Maybe if this community didn't make wild assumptions about Rioters, they'd post more. > > I'm pretty sure none of the Rioters here have anything to do with the actual game, and if they do, its probably not anything this community is complaining about. Its not their jobs to comment on stuff that doesn't pertain to them. The only reason why Bazerka does is because they're trying to encourage us to give more feedback, but even then, they have to constantly remind us that they aren't involved with League's development. They shouldn't have to say that. This community should be smart enough to at least look at their job title and say "Hey, this Rioter is a Recruiter, so maybe I shouldn't spam them about removing TT." or some shit like that. > > But, by all means, continue to think that all Rioters are the same and that they all contribute to the development of the shitshow that is League. Keep asking narrative writers, artists, composers, the support team, ect, when TT is coming back, or when they're removing Eternals, or when they're going to fix the client, ect. Keep being a part of the problem that keeps Rioters away. Let me know when you want to make it more welcoming for them here. Oh we know these Rioters aren't responsible for the hot mess Daddy 10¢ told them to make. They're just following orders.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nzu4FmlK,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-05T23:23:34.572+0000) > > Not a ton of work for the map itself, the ton of work is more for the monetization features which would need to be built. SR/ARAM players would indeed visit their neighbour TT and that's part of what'll make it successful. Work is work, money is money, work costs money. they might, they might not. Last time riot did changes to the mode it didn't seem to matter for the playrate. Again you're assuming the mode is barely played because it doesn't get touched ignoring the fact that it may full well be that riot doesn't touch it cuz it ain't played. I'm repeating myself here again, but like i said chicken or the egg. It ain't hard to understand. > 1. If players are content with the options offered, their interest will stay within League rather than venturing out when they feel burnt out from one map. ARAM still exists and is by far the "chill" map for most people. 3v3 literally changes nothing but the amount of players and lanes. > 2. Monetizing TT would mean more things for players to spend money on. and then these boards will just be filled with people bitching as usual. > 3. The diversity of maps will drive recommendations from players who are contented. It didn't in the past it won't suddenly do that. > Gonne be honest here, this is a recipe for failure. Just because League is **currently** the biggest MOBA, doesn't mean they always will be. Doubt it. the genre ain't as big as 5 years ago. riot has better plans to stay relevant ie. a fighting game, a genre that's more popular than ever. > You have to continuously refine and reinvent your products / services to stay relevant and afloat and part of that involved attracting new players and old players who previously quit. > Without attracting new players or poaching them from the competition because you offer something better and more worthwhile than them, you'll slowly lose your grasp in the market, which actually, is what is happening right now. New champs, new items, balance changes, event modes, .... they've been doing this for years and 3v3 hasn't helped em at all. anyway, my post was never even about 3v3 specifically and i had no intention of having this discussion. i couldn't care less about what happens to it. Fact is people don't play it so it's a waste of space.
> [{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nzu4FmlK,comment-id=000a000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-06T12:11:21.821+0000) > > Work is work, money is money, work costs money. > they might, they might not. Last time riot did changes to the mode it didn't seem to matter for the playrate. Again you're assuming the mode is barely played because it doesn't get touched ignoring the fact that it may full well be that riot doesn't touch it cuz it ain't played. > I'm repeating myself here again, but like i said chicken or the egg. It ain't hard to understand. > I understand it's hard for someone who refuses or is incapable of understanding, to understand. It's alright, I empathize. > ARAM still exists and is by far the "chill" map for most people. 3v3 literally changes nothing but the amount of players and lanes. > Somebody hasn't played TT. > and then these boards will just be filled with people bitching as usual. > No because it won't be a bullshit cash grab like Eternals or loot box-based TFT Little Legends. Do you see people bitching about the skins they can buy? If anything it's either the lack of skins for a particular champ or untapped potential in a particular skin. But you don't pay attention to the boards so you wouldn't know. > It didn't in the past it won't suddenly do that. > It didn't because it wasn't promoted. This painfully obvious point isn't that hard to grasp. > Doubt it. the genre ain't as big as 5 years ago. riot has better plans to stay relevant ie. a fighting game, a genre that's more popular than ever. > Lol. > > > New champs, new items, balance changes, event modes, .... > they've been doing this for years and 3v3 hasn't helped em at all. > Yes, leaving TT out of event passes, missions, no TT specific balance changes or items for 5 years hasn't worked well for TT. Of course it hasn't. > > anyway, my post was never even about 3v3 specifically and i had no intention of having this discussion. i couldn't care less about what happens to it. Fact is people don't play it so it's a waste of space. Except people do play it, so it's not a waste of space? Maybe you're the waste of space and you haven't noticed.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=v2AhIFl4,comment-id=001d000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-05T23:24:31.888+0000) > > For the reasons I stated. Fam. Missions would be attention. I will emphasize, again, before ***ANY*** attention of any kind, not just balance changes, but missions and general map redesigning as well, ARAM was more popular. By "any attention", I mean absolutely any kind of attention besides "A Rioter is playing in the mode" and the general graphical rework from however long ago.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=v2AhIFl4,comment-id=001d0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-06T00:36:33.557+0000) > > Fam. Missions would be attention. > > I will emphasize, again, before ***ANY*** attention of any kind, not just balance changes, but missions and general map redesigning as well, ARAM was more popular. > > By "any attention", I mean absolutely any kind of attention besides "A Rioter is playing in the mode" and the general graphical rework from however long ago. I'll say it again; for reasons I stated.
Bazerka (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8Anyo39z,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-08-19T20:18:04.807+0000) > > Hey Bazerka. You guys ever internally think about utilizing custom games more? Plenty of folks would be very happy even if map types are optional Downloads. I know a lot of folks will want TT and Dominion back and this might be a good option. Has Riot ever thought about it? I can pretty much guarantee that we have. Do I know the reasons for why we haven't so far? I don't unfortunately :X. Riot is a big place, and not everyone knows everything about everything sadly. However, if I were to guess (and I cannot emphasize that I'm guessing here enough), I'd say that it gets tricky about releasing custom maps and modes as well as how far we can support them since those features are heavily resource intensive, and unlike other games with those features, our feature set constantly needs updating and balancing which exponentially increases upkeep cost. Theres also the added concern around what the tech can allow. Thats a whole black box I'm unfamiliar with (but I'm learning! :D)
[Light resources, effective impact, heightened interest, return on investments, player jubilation.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler)
L4T3NCY (NA)
: http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/IoQBWXhpwsd0c/giphy.gif I'll +1 that.
Why are you no longer the Featured Game Mode Lead?
Sancre (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yWabU1jV,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-08-13T18:19:22.927+0000) > > Yea and it'll fail. If they really want money, they'd stop with the cash grabs and implement some long-term, sustainable monetization mechanisms. People said something similar about Little Legends, and there we go, wave 2
Yea revenue will spike for a short while. Due to the RNG of TFT and continued scummy practices, revenue will slowly decelerate to a near-stop.
: Because they can
Yea and it'll fail. If they really want money, they'd stop with the cash grabs and implement some long-term, sustainable monetization mechanisms.
Rioter Comments
: delete this shit game mode, and summoners rift too so all time goes to glorious TFT
GigglesO (NA)
: I think they are just trying to boost their summoners rift playerbase because the queue size is getting too small. (because they are losing players)
If their reason for removing it because it's too small of a population to support, then it won't do shit for SR.
: That's a bit shit man. Have you seen the petition on ipetitions? I was spamming it in the games I was able to play last night, OCE only ahs TT open for 3 days a week. https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/save-twisted-treeline-2 I was pretty devastated when Dominion was removed. That was actually really fun. I really wish there was some actual transparency at the very least.
> [{quoted}](name=Longinus212,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E2ikbKET,comment-id=001c00000000,timestamp=2019-08-05T14:14:45.696+0000) > > That's a bit shit man. > It is indeed. > Have you seen the petition on ipetitions? I was spamming it in the games I was able to play last night, OCE only ahs TT open for 3 days a week. > https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/save-twisted-treeline-2 > Signed. > I was pretty devastated when Dominion was removed. That was actually really fun. I really wish there was some actual transparency at the very least. Same.
Barkley (NA)
: The boards summed up in one post so you don't have to go read all of them
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=v2AhIFl4,comment-id=001d0000,timestamp=2019-08-04T18:52:42.848+0000) > > --- Even before **any** attention was given to ARAM it was still more popular, though.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=v2AhIFl4,comment-id=001d00000000,timestamp=2019-08-05T00:18:51.936+0000) > > Even before **any** attention was given to ARAM it was still more popular, though. For the reasons I stated. > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HY2Al4dT,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-01T17:37:54.071+0000) > > Is that partly due to TT being left out of missions, missions passes etc. to encourage players to abandon the mode? > > Is it also due to Rioters not even taking the slightest interest in the mode but encouraging ARAMs over it? > > And let's say ARAM was still more popular, which is likely, is it because balance matters less in ARAM because it's fuckfest, somewhat like URF whereas TT is a serious mode that required more attention to be sustainable?
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nzu4FmlK,comment-id=000a000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-04T22:07:32.689+0000) > > 1. It's an original mode > 2. There are players heavily vested in it. > 3. Its flaws can be fixed. > 4. It can then be monetized. > 5. It can be used to poach players from other MOBAs > 6. League can be marketed as the MOBA Central that offers multiple, diverse realms of gameplay to keep players station in League when they're tired of 1 map. > 7. ???? > 8. Profit. you're asking for a ton of work that doesn't guarantee any payoff. at best they could get people from SR/ARAM to switch over, which would not be worth it. league doesn't need to market itself as anything either. They're the biggest moba out there.
> [{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nzu4FmlK,comment-id=000a0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-05T11:36:30.412+0000) > > you're asking for a ton of work that doesn't guarantee any payoff. at best they could get people from SR/ARAM to switch over, which would not be worth it. > Not a ton of work for the map itself, the ton of work is more for the monetization features which would need to be built. SR/ARAM players would indeed visit their neighbour TT and that's part of what'll make it successful. 1. If players are content with the options offered, their interest will stay within League rather than venturing out when they feel burnt out from one map. 2. Monetizing TT would mean more things for players to spend money on. 3. The diversity of maps will drive recommendations from players who are contented. > league doesn't need to market itself as anything either. They're the biggest moba out there. Gonne be honest here, this is a recipe for failure. Just because League is **currently** the biggest MOBA, doesn't mean they always will be. You have to continuously refine and reinvent your products / services to stay relevant and afloat and part of that involved attracting new players and old players who previously quit. Without attracting new players or poaching them from the competition because you offer something better and more worthwhile than them, you'll slowly lose your grasp in the market, which actually, is what is happening right now.
Eedat (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nzu4FmlK,comment-id=000a0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-04T20:06:44.461+0000) > > How about logic instead of shit posts? You know, you started off being really nice when you were posting your ideas on these boards when you wanted people to get behind you. Now you just outright attack anyone who disagrees calling them illogical, idiots, Riot dickriders, or shitposters. Can't hide those true colors for long.
> [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nzu4FmlK,comment-id=000a00000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-08-05T00:00:08.545+0000) > > You know, you started off being really nice when you were posting your ideas on these boards when you wanted people to get behind you. Now you just outright attack anyone who disagrees calling them illogical, idiots, Riot dickriders, or shitposters. Can't hide those true colors for long. As stated in my other post; >I also don't intend to shoot down anybody else for disagreeing, rather bring to light the flaws in those disagreements. And yes I did it with a condescending, aggressive touch because I am pissed.
Eedat (NA)
: > Let's see; > URF = fuck fest. > ARAM = fuck fest. > TFT = RNG fuck fest. > You know why the fuck fests were popular? Because balance and design don't matter. It's a fuck fest and anything goes pretty much. > If a serious mode isn't balanced and it's designed flaws aren't rectified, it's obviously going to suffer because anything doesn't go, it ruins the experience. If you're gonna queue up for a semi-fuck fest or a semi-serious mode, you might as well queue up for a full-on serious mode or a full on fuck fest. > Logic is a stranger to you, it seems. My sincerest apologies, my lord. It was a blasphemous error that I forgot your opinion holds weight over all others. All these million of players know not of the sins they commit! I shall preach them thy gospel, lest they know the error of their ways. Like seriously are you just trolling at this point? Wow, one random person on the internet decided all these are trash game modes. Throw out all the data everyone! Someone on the internet doesn't like them! All those millions of players are wrong! EVERYONE ELSE BESIDES THIS GUY IS FACTUALLY INCORRECT! > So shouldn't the players who have experience and are vested in TT have the say about the fate of TT? Should the US be allowed to vote in Russia's elections? > Also, you're conveniently ignoring the numerous monetization mechanisms included in our project. Money that would have overall boosted LoL's revenue if it was and was marketed as MOBA Central. > But again you wouldn't know anything about that. No, they shouldn't. These aren't balance changes. This is a business decision. It's a numbers game, not a decision over the what changes feel the best. The absolute LAST group of people who you would want to take advice for on a business decision are the ones who are 100% biased to one side. They will always always ALWAYS tell you to to keep it even if it makes absolutely ZERO sense. And here we go again. "I say it will make money so therefore it will!!!!". Well now, the guy with zero experience and an insane amount of bias said it will be profitable. That's all the evidence I need! Let me break this down further. TT is at the point where the entire map needs a VU and the entire mode needs a complete overhaul. Now, by itself this will cost a lot of money. However there are several other factors that add up as well. First of all, Riot does not have unlimited resources working for them. Pulling manpower off other more profitable endeavors is also a loss that needs to be accounted for. Second, there is also the cost of fixing and maintaining all the changes that they made. So you put all these on a scale and weigh it against the _**RISK**_ (Please note: Yes, it is a _**big RISK**_. Not the gUaReNtEeD pRoFiT you keep going on about) of doing all this to come to a decision. What other evidence do we have to work with? First, let me spell this out for you since you seem to be incapable of grasping it. ***Nobody is arguing that they didn't more or less give up on TT after season 2/3 and give up altogether after season 5. Nobody is arguing against this. I repeat, nobody is arguing against this.*** Now that you can't feign ignorance of that anymore, lets see what else we got. Hmmmm, all efforts put into TT in the past yielded zero results. Even a huge overhaul did nothing. Now lets look at this again as a whole. We have to weigh the cost of giving TT a complete VU, complete bottom to top overhaul, allocating resources away from other more proven game modes, labor of fixing issues that surely will arise, and continual upkeep and maintenance against the RISK of it maybe becoming a more profitable game mode despite all past attempts failing miseraly. NOw whats the clear answer? You would be an awful business person. > The only reason you're getting so many upvotes on Reddit is because it's troll infested forum which rallies any kind of short and sweet, surface-level posts, including short and sweet shit posts. > Yea it's 100x bigger than the Boards because Reddit isn't limited to League. People who are on Reddit and play League can easily transition to the League subreddit and transition to another when they're done with League. > It's an all-in-one sort of forum which is why it's more popular. > Speaking of all-in-one things which are more popular. 🤔 Oh boy, here we go again. "EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A TROLL!!!! EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A SHITPOSTER!!!! EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A TROLL!!!! EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A SHITPOSTER!!!! EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A TROLL!!!! EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A SHITPOSTER!!!!" Wow that's such a convenient coincidence that all 8000 people who upvoted that other thread are all trolls and that your sample of 100 is completely free of trolls, shitposters, and bias. It only makes sense that your pristine sample hand selected by the gods themselves should be undeniable proof that you are correct. I am but a mere mortal. Who am I to interfere with your divine providence? > Pretty much everybody, including folks who didn't post in our thread, agreed with our proposal. Even The Djinn, who tried to shoot it down, couldn't and his ideas were proven flawed, yet I didn't shoot him down in that thread. > I did, when he was making excuses for Riot's bullshit lies and being complicit with said lies. > Likewise with you and others. I'm aware my condescending tone has lead to the belief that I shoot y'all down for merely disagreeing but do understand that it's in response to your complicity in Riot's condescending lies toward us TT players. You aren't even asking the same question. Again, ***I'M NOT ARGUING WITH YOUR CHANGES.*** That is not the question being discussed. Like I'll say for the tenth time, ***it's a business decision.*** What you asked was 'in a vacuum, would these changes be good'? You did not ask if these changes would make any sense to actually make. And you seriously think that 100 upvotes is a more accurate indicator than 8000? Oh, I forgot. "EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A TROLL!!!! EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A SHITPOSTER!!!!" Congrats on "beating" one person. And I use that term very lightly because you're just some random dude acting like you won an argument on the internet lmao. Plus from what I've seen from you, you're probably just completely full of shit like how you claim any opinion opposing yours is shitposting. "Proving his ideas were flawed" to you probably means beating your head against the wall hard enough. You realize that Heralds are not Rioters and are just normal players like you and I correct?
> [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2PMyGTgh,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-04T23:57:44.790+0000) > > My sincerest apologies, my lord. It was a blasphemous error that I forgot your opinion holds weight over all others. All these million of players know not of the sins they commit! I shall preach them thy gospel, lest they know the error of their ways. > I actually think you need some Gospel in your life though. And I'm not the Gospel. > Like seriously are you just trolling at this point? Wow, one random person on the internet decided all these are trash game modes. Throw out all the data everyone! Someone on the internet doesn't like them! All those millions of players are wrong! EVERYONE ELSE BESIDES THIS GUY IS FACTUALLY INCORRECT! > I didn't say they were trash game modes, I said they were fuck fests, which to a large extent, they are. A fuck fest, in the case can be defined as a group of 10 players face-rolling their keyboards for the fun of it and the lolz. In the case of TFT, RNG fucks most things up without the need of face-rolling, so keyboards don't feel abused. Apologies for not making that clear. > No, they shouldn't. These aren't balance changes. This is a business decision. It's a numbers game, not a decision over the what changes feel the best. The absolute LAST group of people who you would want to take advice for on a business decision are the ones who are 100% biased to one side. They will always always ALWAYS tell you to to keep it even if it makes absolutely ZERO sense. > > And here we go again. "I say it will make money so therefore it will!!!!". Well now, the guy with zero experience and an insane amount of bias said it will be profitable. That's all the evidence I need! > Hmmm. How are businesses created? Not with a biased team or individual? That point aside, while I definitely would like TT to stay and I am biased because I actually invested a fuck ton of time in it, our entire proposal was objective. The proposal was one that would be a win/win if taken up. Let me dumb down the tactics of proposal; TT is suffering from a population (numbers) problem as you mentioned. How do we fix it? We can remove it (easy, lazy solution). Or we can; 1. Address the gameplay and design issues with the map. 2. Encourage current LoL players to try the update by promoting and communicating the update via a pinned post on the main site as well as in-client. 3. Entice players to play via missions and sustain their interest in the mode. 4. Monetize the mode to enhance players' experience when their interest is captured. 5. Market League as a MOBA Central to poach other MOBA players as well as new and even returning players due to renewed interest in the game. 6. Profit from a multi-mode MOBA with heightened interest. I understand it's easy to look at numbers, data and that sort of thing, become discouraged and give up. I look at numbers and data and see it as potential. > Let me break this down further. TT is at the point where the entire map needs a VU and the entire mode needs a complete overhaul. Now, by itself this will cost a lot of money. However there are several other factors that add up as well. First of all, Riot does not have unlimited resources working for them. Pulling manpower off other more profitable endeavors is also a loss that needs to be accounted for. Second, there is also the cost of fixing and maintaining all the changes that they made. So you put all these on a scale and weigh it against the _**RISK**_ (Please note: Yes, it is a _**big RISK**_. Not the gUaReNtEeD pRoFiT you keep going on about) of doing all this to come to a decision. > Except TT doesn't need a complete overhaul, it just needs the design & balance issues fixed for that spark of renewed and sustained interest, since the issues that drove away players would have now been rectified. > What other evidence do we have to work with? First, let me spell this out for you since you seem to be incapable of grasping it. ***Nobody is arguing that they didn't more or less give up on TT after season 2/3 and give up altogether after season 5. Nobody is arguing against this. I repeat, nobody is arguing against this.*** Now that you can't feign ignorance of that anymore, lets see what else we got. Hmmmm, all efforts put into TT in the past yielded zero results. Even a huge overhaul did nothing. > You basically countered yourself with the following paragraph; > Now lets look at this again as a whole. We have to weigh the cost of giving TT a complete VU, complete bottom to top overhaul, allocating resources away from other more proven game modes, labor of fixing issues that surely will arise, and continual upkeep and maintenance against the RISK of it maybe becoming a more profitable game mode despite all past attempts failing miseraly. NOw whats the clear answer? > An overhaul, without continued support and upkeep **will** fail. That's what we're bitching about, the fact that Riot half-assed the mode, then blamed it on the players for not playing it. That's why we're pissed. > You would be an awful business person. > Explains why I'm an asset to several companies and a regime. I've turned failures worse than TT into successes for people. People, who looked at my analyses and concluded it was impossible and wouldn't work. People who wrote me off from the beginning as an amateur who didn't know what he was doing. All because they looked at numbers and data, became discouraged and gave up. Except despite all of that, they took the leap of faith and implemented the solutions I proposed, only to be dumbfounded that the very same analyses and solutions proposed by the very same amateur they wrote off from the beginning, worked and in some cases, worked better than expected. It's only crazy and inconceivable until it's done. > Oh boy, here we go again. "EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A TROLL!!!! EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A SHITPOSTER!!!! EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A TROLL!!!! EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A SHITPOSTER!!!! EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A TROLL!!!! EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A SHITPOSTER!!!!" > Now I'm wondering if you're the troll. > Wow that's such a convenient coincidence that all 8000 people who upvoted that other thread are all trolls and that your sample of 100 is completely free of trolls, shitposters, and bias. It only makes sense that your pristine sample hand selected by the gods themselves should be undeniable proof that you are correct. I am but a mere mortal. Who am I to interfere with your divine providence? > You have a statement- numbers and data and for sharing these facts, you were upvoted. That alone however isn't an argument, neither a solution, only a statement. > You aren't even asking the same question. Again, ***I'M NOT ARGUING WITH YOUR CHANGES.*** That is not the question being discussed. Like I'll say for the tenth time, ***it's a business decision.*** What you asked was 'in a vacuum, would these changes be good'? You did not ask if these changes would make any sense to actually make. And you seriously think that 100 upvotes is a more accurate indicator than 8000? Oh, I forgot. "EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A TROLL!!!! EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES IS A SHITPOSTER!!!!" > It is a business decision, a pathetic, heartless and misinformed one. If the changes would be good for TT and to an extend League as a whole, why would they not make sense. I smell contradiction here. > Congrats on "beating" one person. And I use that term very lightly because you're just some random dude acting like you won an argument on the internet lmao. Plus from what I've seen from you, you're probably just completely full of shit like how you claim any opinion opposing yours is shitposting. "Proving his ideas were flawed" to you probably means beating your head against the wall hard enough. You realize that Heralds are not Rioters and are just normal players like you and I correct? I didn't "beat" him neither am I proud of "proving him wrong." That was just a statement to support my argument. I also don't intend to shoot down anybody else for disagreeing, rather bring to light the flaws in those disagreements. And I'm sorry, I couldn't tell the difference between red and purple so I got kinda confused there.
: > the reason for TT's low population is due to it receiving fuck all level attention. like i said, chicken or the egg? why would they give attention to a mode noone plays?
> [{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nzu4FmlK,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-04T22:01:33.940+0000) > > like i said, chicken or the egg? > > why would they give attention to a mode noone plays? 1. It's an original mode 2. There are players heavily vested in it. 3. Its flaws can be fixed. 4. It can then be monetized. 5. It can be used to poach players from other MOBAs 6. League can be marketed as the MOBA Central that offers multiple, diverse realms of gameplay to keep players station in League when they're tired of 1 map. 7. ???? 8. Profit.
: they can use that server space for other game modes that presumable would be played more/ make riot more money. server space is determined by games hosted, not exactly number of players (although they are obviously related). There is probably a bunch of unused games in TT just sitting there empty... that would be my guess at least
Fair point. Although, if we want to make the allotted servers are worthwhile and generating revenue to exceed production costs, [lend me your thoughts on this and let me know if you think it'll accomplish the above.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler)
Eedat (NA)
: > When they updated SR, did they leave it out to dry immediately after or did they continue to work on it and improve it? > When they released TFT, did they leave it out to dry immediately after or did they continue to work on it? The difference between these modes is that they were already extremely popular off the bat. TT was not. Other modes that aren't popular dont get panned out as much either. I mean look at URF. It was insanely unbalanced more than any other mode before it. But it still was popular so it recieved some work. ARAM and TFT are other examples of this. Dominion and other various RGMs are examples of the opposite. Sinking money into something that sunk before it even set sail doesn't make sense. > It's not much of a gamble, if that. If the changes proposed are implemented properly and not just a one-off like they did before, it would have worked. It would have yielded profit and Riot would have received more on their returns than their investments. > The fact remains they've done nothing like this yet you, among others are complicit in Riot's bullshit and painfully obvious lies, mostly because you all don't care about TT because you haven't invested much if at all any time in it. Well the first part is you just making stuff up. You are just one random guy on the internet with a horse in the race and no experience in these matters. You are pretty much saying that it will make money because you say so. I'm sorry but your opinion doesn't supersede a company that has made one of the most successful video games of all time, especially when the majority of the community agrees. Also, like no shit if you surveyed only people who are dedicated to TT you will get a result of 100% don't remove it (assuming bots can't vote lol). That is not how business decisions are made. And LoL is, in fact, a business. It is not a charity. If the money dries up, the entire game goes under. > I saw your shit post and it was based on that that I formed my response above. You've already sunk to the point of marrying Riot's bullshit and that's why I downvote you and others, because you don't offer reason, yet you convince yourself you are and force it on us TT players like it's some sort of factual basis when it's just ass-kissing Riot. No it's not. You just desperately want to discredit it because it opposes your view. It's not particularly well written but it's well written enough and far from a shitpost. Honestly you just desperately want it to be some garbage like "TT sUcKs BaLlS aNd TT PlAyErS sHoUlD sHuT tHe FuCk Up" so it would be easily dismissable. For me, it was an experiment. One with very clear results. I wanted to test the difference of opinion of this tiny board to that of a MUCH larger group of players. Opinions on this tiny board are far more easily manipulated and people are far more likely to hop on anything bashing Riot regardless of what it is, which is what you're trying to exploit. But the fact of the matter is that this board might get 100 or so upvotes over several days compared to 10,000 on the main reddit in one. Anyway, you've exposed the snake in the grass that you really are. You act so nice and kind and thoughtful when presenting ideas and to people who agree or have questions, but anyone who disagrees in any way is immediately attacked. Any hint of disagreement is met with a flurry of bullshit buzzwords in an attempt to whip others into an angry mob. It is true that people's true colors always end up coming out.
> [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2PMyGTgh,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-04T20:59:43.944+0000) > > The difference between these modes is that they were already extremely popular off the bat. TT was not. Other modes that aren't popular dont get panned out as much either. I mean look at URF. It was insanely unbalanced more than any other mode before it. But it still was popular so it recieved some work. ARAM and TFT are other examples of this. Dominion and other various RGMs are examples of the opposite. Sinking money into something that sunk before it even set sail doesn't make sense. > Let's see; 1. URF = fuck fest. 2. ARAM = fuck fest. 3. TFT = RNG fuck fest. You know why the fuck fests were popular? Because balance and design don't matter. It's a fuck fest and anything goes pretty much. If a serious mode isn't balanced and it's designed flaws aren't rectified, it's obviously going to suffer because anything **doesn't go,** it ruins the experience. If you're gonna queue up for a semi-fuck fest or a semi-serious mode, you might as well queue up for a full-on serious mode or a full on fuck fest. Logic is a stranger to you, it seems. > Well the first part is you just making stuff up. You are just one random guy on the internet with a horse in the race and no experience in these matters. You are pretty much saying that it will make money because you say so. I'm sorry but your opinion doesn't supersede a company that has made one of the most successful video games of all time, especially when the majority of the community agrees. > So based on heavy analyses of what attracts players to a mode, encourages players to stay on that mode, become attached to it and spend money in appreciate of it is making stuff up. But you would never know what that is like since you focus on surface-level propaganda all the time. > Also, like no shit if you surveyed only people who are dedicated to TT you will get a result of 100% don't remove it (assuming bots can't vote lol). That is not how business decisions are made. And LoL is, in fact, a business. It is not a charity. If the money dries up, the entire game goes under. > So shouldn't the players who have experience and are vested in TT have the say about the fate of TT? Should the US be allowed to vote in Russia's elections? Also, you're conveniently ignoring the numerous monetization mechanisms included in our project. Money that would have overall boosted LoL's revenue if it was and was marketed as MOBA Central. But again you wouldn't know anything about that. > No it's not. You just desperately want to discredit it because it opposes your view. It's not particularly well written but it's well written enough and far from a shitpost. Honestly you just desperately want it to be some garbage like "TT sUcKs BaLlS aNd TT PlAyErS sHoUlD sHuT tHe FuCk Up" so it would be easily dismissable. For me, it was an experiment. One with very clear results. I wanted to test the difference of opinion of this tiny board to that of a MUCH larger group of players. Opinions on this tiny board are far more easily manipulated and people are far more likely to hop on anything bashing Riot regardless of what it is, which is what you're trying to exploit. But the fact of the matter is that this board might get 100 or so upvotes over several days compared to 10,000 on the main reddit in one. > The only reason you're getting so many upvotes on Reddit is because it's troll infested forum which rallies any kind of short and sweet, surface-level posts, including short and sweet shit posts. Yea it's 100x bigger than the Boards because Reddit isn't limited to League. People who are on Reddit and play League can easily transition to the League subreddit and transition to another when they're done with League. It's an all-in-one sort of forum which is why it's more popular. Speaking of all-in-one things which are more popular. 🤔 > Anyway, you've exposed the snake in the grass that you really are. You act so nice and kind and thoughtful when presenting ideas and to people who agree or have questions, but anyone who disagrees in any way is immediately attacked. Any hint of disagreement is met with a flurry of bullshit buzzwords in an attempt to whip others into an angry mob. It is true that people's true colors always end up coming out. Pretty much everybody, including folks who didn't post in our thread, agreed with our proposal. Even The Djinn, who tried to shoot it down, couldn't and his ideas were proven flawed, yet I didn't shoot him down in that thread. I did, when he was making excuses for Riot's bullshit lies and being complicit with said lies. Likewise with you and others. I'm aware my condescending tone has lead to the belief that I shoot y'all down for merely disagreeing but do understand that it's in response to your complicity in Riot's condescending lies toward us TT players.
Eedat (NA)
: They don't have to be TT players. As a matter of fact, the _**whole point**_ is that there isn't many TT players. Like I said, it comes down to weighing the costs and risk of a complete revamp to potential gain which is where they came to their decision. When they put work into TT in the past, it yielded no results. After that they left it out to dry, probably to keep the majority of bots out of other game modes if I had to guess. I get it. You like TT and it sucks to see it go. We've all had to deal with a game we love finally going offline and it sucks. The changes you suggest may in fact help. You act as though making all these changes, revamping the map, and new features aren't going to cost alot of money to both make and fix. And it's a ***gamble*** if they even work. But now you're slowing sinking to the point of automatically downvoting and attacking anyone who disagrees. If you want to see my "shitpost", it's copy/pasted from a thread I made on this forum. Shouldn't be hard to find.
> [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2PMyGTgh,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-08-04T19:21:32.749+0000) > > They don't have to be TT players. As a matter of fact, the _**whole point**_ is that there isn't many TT players. Like I said, it comes down to weighing the costs and risk of a complete revamp to potential gain which is where they came to their decision. When they put work into TT in the past, it yielded no results. After that they left it out to dry, probably to keep the majority of bots out of other game modes if I had to guess. > When they updated SR, did they leave it out to dry **immediately** after or did they continue to work on it and improve it? When they released TFT, did they leave it out to dry **immediately** after or did they continue to work on it? > I get it. You like TT and it sucks to see it go. We've all had to deal with a game we love finally going offline and it sucks. > > The changes you suggest may in fact help. You act as though making all these changes, revamping the map, and new features aren't going to cost alot of money to both make and fix. And it's a ***gamble*** if they even work. > It's not much of a gamble, if that. If the changes proposed are implemented properly and not just a one-off like they did before, it would have worked. It would have yielded profit and Riot would have received more on their returns than their investments. The fact remains they've done nothing like this yet you, among others are complicit in Riot's bullshit and painfully obvious lies, mostly because you all don't care about TT because you haven't invested much if at all any time in it. > But now you're slowing sinking to the point of automatically downvoting and attacking anyone who disagrees. If you want to see my "shitpost", it's copy/pasted from a thread I made on this forum. Shouldn't be hard to find. I saw your shit post and it was based on that that I formed my response above. You've already sunk to the point of marrying Riot's bullshit and that's why I downvote you and others, because you don't offer reason, yet you convince yourself you are and force it on us TT players like it's some sort of factual basis when it's just ass-kissing Riot.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nzu4FmlK,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2019-08-04T19:08:17.166+0000) > > Yea we knew it was going to be permanent. TT is still waiting on TFT level attention though. > We're also wondering if by chance, the reason for TT's low population is due to it receiving fuck all level attention. chicken or the egg?
> [{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nzu4FmlK,comment-id=000a000000000000,timestamp=2019-08-04T19:14:53.769+0000) > > chicken or the egg? How about logic instead of shit posts?
: > [{quoted}](name=Kürama,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nzu4FmlK,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-08-04T18:46:35.309+0000) > > In the same blog post they made the decision to make the RNG, gambling infested fuck fest permanent, they announced TT as well. Coincidence? yeah i've seen this multiple times but, did anyone really expect TFT not to be permanent? They're actively adding stuff to it and they were talking about ranked day 1. This shit was permanent from the start, genuinly don't see how anyone still feels like this is news.
> [{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nzu4FmlK,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-08-04T18:51:41.108+0000) > > yeah i've seen this multiple times but, did anyone really expect TFT not to be permanent? > > They're actively adding stuff to it and they were talking about ranked day 1. This shit was permanent from the start, genuinly don't see how anyone still feels like this is news. Yea we knew it was going to be permanent. TT is still waiting on TFT level attention though. We're also wondering if by chance, the reason for TT's low population is due to it receiving fuck all level attention.
Dynikus (NA)
: I played TT to play new or reworked champs because I could get them easily. Only reason I played it. The game mode sucks and I couldn't care less to see it go. Ranked matchmaking was such a joke I couldn't even use it for an easy season gold.
> [{quoted}](name=Dynikus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=WAt7wIqV,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-08-03T10:35:27.771+0000) > > I played TT to play new or reworked champs because I could get them easily. Only reason I played it. The game mode sucks and I couldn't care less to see it go. > Ranked matchmaking was such a joke I couldn't even use it for an easy season gold. Thank you for pointing out your selfishness along with some flaws of TT [which could have been rectified.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler)
: wait, they're removing Twisted Treeline?
[Full-fledges solutions proposed and shot down.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/E2ikbKET-proposal-twisted-treeline-gameplay-update-new-game-mode-more-riot-mort-meddler)
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Kürama

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