: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=00180000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T20:01:00.959+0000) > > Interesting. I am not sure what you are saying. Your wording is odd and I cannot understand "odd" wording didn't cause your inability to understand anymore than blitzbot caused you to meltdown in game.
> [{quoted}](name=DerankingInter,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=001800000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T20:33:06.725+0000) > > "odd" wording didn't cause your inability to understand anymore than blitzbot caused you to meltdown in game. lol I am starting to suspect you didn't read op. Have a nice day!
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=001800000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T19:47:26.735+0000) > > Is that the issue here? You believe I was an unhealthy gamer in this situation? It isn't that I recognize that you are an unhealthy in this situation. Blitzbot, precedent and the LoL community recognized that as well hence your being punished not once but twice.
> [{quoted}](name=DerankingInter,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0018000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T19:52:58.115+0000) > > It isn't that I recognize that you are an unhealthy in this situation. Blitzbot, precedent and the LoL community recognized that as well hence your being punished not once but twice. Interesting. I am not sure what you are saying. Your wording is odd and I cannot understand
: "Speak to them like the kids I work with in mental health." "What's 'passive negative' mean?" Implying that your teammates are mentally challenged seems pretty passive negative to me.
> [{quoted}](name=Prøtømån,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=001f,timestamp=2019-04-10T15:25:20.369+0000) > > "Speak to them like the kids I work with in mental health." > > "What's 'passive negative' mean?" > > Implying that your teammates are mentally challenged seems pretty passive negative to me. More like since I work in 2 different mental health/behavioral facilities for children 7 days a week, that is my frame of reference for what might be the expected interactions Riot would desire within their game
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0018000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T19:12:59.264+0000) > > My point has more to do with the cases it gets wrong and to start a discussion for anyone who has had this problem to contribute their accounts. Apparently it seems not too many people have these issues since I have only gotten a couple people sharing similar experiences. So then the consensus just might be only a very small percentage have ever had issues with the penalty system and nothing needs to change Pragmatically speaking it doesn't get cases wrong. Offenders need to grow up, normal healthy gamers will never have a problem with blitzbot.
> [{quoted}](name=DerankingInter,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=00180000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T19:36:21.900+0000) > > Pragmatically speaking it doesn't get cases wrong. Offenders need to grow up, normal healthy gamers will never have a problem with blitzbot. Is that the issue here? You believe I was an unhealthy gamer in this situation?
: > [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0002000100000000000000010001,timestamp=2019-04-10T16:14:54.896+0000) > > Except I provided alternatives for both scenarios. I gave responses to if what he was saying was true and if it wasn't true. > > You know what else is shitty? Claiming that 3 employees agreed that something was unjust, then not providing proof of it when asked. > > Your situation isn't the same as his, those screenshots aren't going to do anything for me. > > Edit: And even if the bot was hasty, do you wish that wasn't the case? We get a ton of people that already complain that inters/feeders/trolls/afkers don't get punished enough, so you want to make it _more_ lenient? > > Don't really care how you perceive me. I get variations of that same comment every day on the Boards. > > "You're just a Riot employee", "you're just a white knight", and/or "look at the little Riot fanboy over here" all because I choose to not blindly believe everything I come across and want to actually, you know, think and discuss things. > > It very well could be, you're right. If it was an error, they should definitely overturn OP's punishment. It's only fair. > > However, he's giving me different answers atm (now saying he's got the screenshots, that Riot reset his punishments to a 10 game chat restriction, and more) so there's clearly more to this situation. Of course I think the bot being hasty is a problem or I wouldn't be posting here. I don't think it's a good player experience at all for a bot to 14 day ban multiple people for tame, first offenses. OP provided screenshots of his experience and I can provide mine as well. I think this is pretty open and shut that the bot isn't working as intended. It's likely the word filter got altered.
> [{quoted}](name=Sourpatchkittens,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=00020001000000000000000100010001,timestamp=2019-04-10T18:21:53.897+0000) > > Of course I think the bot being hasty is a problem or I wouldn't be posting here. I don't think it's a good player experience at all for a bot to 14 day ban multiple people for tame, first offenses. OP provided screenshots of his experience and I can provide mine as well. I think this is pretty open and shut that the bot isn't working as intended. It's likely the word filter got altered. Agreed. Thank you for your input here! Sorry you had a similar experience
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=00180000,timestamp=2019-04-10T13:42:45.050+0000) > > Sure, but it is too nit picky apparently No penal system is perfect but blitzbot is one of the best in the world and seeing as I don't get trolls in my games I think he does a good job.
> [{quoted}](name=DerankingInter,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=001800000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T19:05:32.486+0000) > > No penal system is perfect but blitzbot is one of the best in the world and seeing as I don't get trolls in my games I think he does a good job. My point has more to do with the cases it gets wrong and to start a discussion for anyone who has had this problem to contribute their accounts. Apparently it seems not too many people have these issues since I have only gotten a couple people sharing similar experiences. So then the consensus just might be only a very small percentage have ever had issues with the penalty system and nothing needs to change
SanKakU (NA)
: Your messages make no sense. Before bind? You're not helpful, and you seem to type a lot of nothing. If you need to tell your team something, then do it. Typing random words into the chat isn't going to help.
> [{quoted}](name=SanKakU,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2019-04-10T19:01:16.415+0000) > > Your messages make no sense. Before bind? You're not helpful, and you seem to type a lot of nothing. If you need to tell your team something, then do it. Typing random words into the chat isn't going to help. Well that's kind of the problem with them only providing your own chat logs. Even in that situation with me talking about binds, I was agreeing with a teammate telling our warwick to use ult before getting cc'd. I clarified they were talking about morg bind. This is a good example as to why the entire game chat log should be provided. I would be able to make my point much more clearly if you could see the comparison between what I said vs what my teammates said lol EDIT to clarify in case you've never had a chat penalty before, the system only shows you your chat logs, not everyones. Also, yes I usually do type a lot of nothing, I normally don't type, I normally just play lol
SanKakU (NA)
: The only reason I agree humans should handle bans is they can actually review offenses and issue bans faster than robots can. Which kind of is the opposite of what you seem to expect would happen. Robots are super lazy only caring once the number of offenses reaches whatever number. Humans though could look at comments of reports and then investigate validity of outrageous claims and then weigh various reporters according to evidence of truth or lies from the comments given. I don't believe for a second that it would take any significant amount of manpower to issue punishments manually. It just would take a lot of skill and research at first, but given time the quality and the speed of the punishments would improve rapidly and far surpass what we have now.
> [{quoted}](name=SanKakU,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0020,timestamp=2019-04-10T19:03:06.390+0000) > > The only reason I agree humans should handle bans is they can actually review offenses and issue bans faster than robots can. Which kind of is the opposite of what you seem to expect would happen. Robots are super lazy only caring once the number of offenses reaches whatever number. Humans though could look at comments of reports and then investigate validity of outrageous claims and then weigh various reporters according to evidence of truth or lies from the comments given. > > I don't believe for a second that it would take any significant amount of manpower to issue punishments manually. It just would take a lot of skill and research at first, but given time the quality and the speed of the punishments would improve rapidly and far surpass what we have now. Agreed
Hotarµ (NA)
: > No I stand by my op, you need to read it more clearly. My point is allowing a system to penalize accounts unjustly is not fair, especially when appeals have to be responded by a human anyway for each mess up that could have been reviewed by a human to begin with... I read the entire thing before I made my first comment, bud. I disagree. Every system has it's errors, but the efficiency and consistent results of the IFS make it much more beneficial than a team of humans. Now, before you accuse me of not reading your post or misinterpreting it, I understand you think the final punishment should be administered by a human. While this is more realistic, it's still subject to the same pitfalls as our current system. Bots can make mistakes _along the way_, humans show bias, humans have working hours and/or the cost of living + working, etc. >especially to people who only get special occasions to play and the wait for a human response and a correction is not fair. You know what else wouldn't be fair? Getting a permanent ban and then having to wait 4+ weeks to get a response back from Riot Support. Your suggestion doesn't do anything to cut down on that wait time, in fact it does the exact opposite. A team of support agents reviewing tickets _and punishments_ manually for **every single person that gets permanently banned would take infinitely longer** than a bot finalizing punishments with humans responding to a few who choose to file support tickets.
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0002000100000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T17:20:26.443+0000) > > I read the entire thing before I made my first comment, bud. > > I disagree. > > Every system has it's errors, but the efficiency and consistent results of the IFS make it much more beneficial than a team of humans. Now, before you accuse me of not reading your post or misinterpreting it, I understand you think the final punishment should be administered by a human. > > While this is more realistic, it's still subject to the same pitfalls as our current system. Bots can make mistakes _along the way_, humans show bias, humans have working hours and/or the cost of living + working, etc. > > You know what else wouldn't be fair? Getting a permanent ban and then having to wait 4+ weeks to get a response back from Riot Support. Your suggestion doesn't do anything to cut down on that wait time, in fact it does the exact opposite. > > A team of support agents reviewing tickets _and punishments_ manually for **every single person that gets permanently banned would take infinitely longer** than a bot finalizing punishments with humans responding to a few who choose to file support tickets. I see your point. Maybe it is just a fantasy to have enough people to have a word on issuing penalties. I get it. This is a new problem for me, and sparked enough fire for me to hop on here and demand a discussion on potentially changing it. Who knows what really can be done in the future. What I do know is if this does become a more widespread common problem, then something will need to be done
KTFresh (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0002000100000000000000010001,timestamp=2019-04-10T16:14:54.896+0000) > > Except I provided alternatives for both scenarios. I gave responses to if what he was saying was true and if it wasn't true. > > You know what else is shitty? Claiming that 3 employees agreed that something was unjust, then not providing proof of it when asked. > > Your situation isn't the same as his, those screenshots aren't going to do anything for me. > > Edit: And even if the bot was hasty, do you wish that wasn't the case? We get a ton of people that already complain that inters/feeders/trolls/afkers don't get punished enough, so you want to make it _more_ lenient? > > Don't really care how you perceive me. I get variations of that same comment every day on the Boards. > > "You're just a Riot employee", "you're just a white knight", and/or "look at the little Riot fanboy over here" all because I choose to not blindly believe everything I come across and want to actually, you know, think and discuss things. > > It very well could be, you're right. If it was an error, they should definitely overturn OP's punishment. It's only fair. > > However, he's giving me different answers atm (now saying he's got the screenshots, that Riot reset his punishments to a 10 game chat restriction, and more) so there's clearly more to this situation. I am trying to post the pics lmao just haven't figured it out yet. Do I need to use imgur links or something?
> [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=00020001000000000000000100010000,timestamp=2019-04-10T17:04:37.075+0000) > > I am trying to post the pics lmao just haven't figured it out yet. Do I need to use imgur links or something? I have provided pic links in OP
Hotarµ (NA)
: > Yes some people have been very presumptuous hopping into this post. I did not post to start a shit storm or get some kind of clout or whatever. I was extremely frustrated, processed my thoughts and emotions, hashed this out in my appeal, and was recommended by Riot Skeletor to post on this forum. Pretty simple imo Said the same thing to Sourpatchkittens and I'll say it again to you: _I provided alternatives for both scenarios._ I didn't instantly discredit you and say _"Well you just lied and didn't provide proof"_, I addressed both scenarios and explained why the punishment wasn't unjustified. But yeah, when you make a claim like that, **back it up** and show the proof (up front) that people expect to see **if you don't want people to call you out on it.** __________ Now, you changed the situation by saying they reset your punishment to a 10 game chat restriction, so what I'm saying is going to change as well. Make a new (or edit this) post because it's very misdirected, **provide evidence of the things you claim to have happened**, and file a support ticket that specifically says your individual punishments were reset but your account status on the punishment ladder was not.
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=00020001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T16:25:26.884+0000) > > Said the same thing to Sourpatchkittens and I'll say it again to you: > > _I provided alternatives for both scenarios._ > > I didn't instantly discredit you and say _"Well you just lied and didn't provide proof"_, I addressed both scenarios and explained why the punishment wasn't unjustified. > > But yeah, when you make a claim like that, **back it up** and show the proof (up front) that people expect to see **if you don't want people to call you out on it.** > __________ > > Now, you changed the situation by saying they reset your punishment to a 10 game chat restriction, so what I'm saying is going to change as well. Make a new (or edit this) post because it's very misdirected, **provide evidence of the things you claim to have happened**, and file a support ticket that specifically says your individual punishments were reset but your account status on the punishment ladder was not. No I stand by my op, you need to read it more clearly. My point is allowing a system to penalize accounts unjustly is not fair, especially when appeals have to be responded by a human anyway for each mess up that could have been reviewed by a human to begin with, especially to people who only get special occasions to play and the wait for a human response and a correction is not fair.
Hotarµ (NA)
: > Coming in and accusing him of lying is pretty shitty. Except I provided alternatives for both scenarios. I gave responses to if what he was saying was true and if it wasn't true. You know what else is shitty? Claiming that 3 employees agreed that something was unjust, then not providing proof of it when asked. >If needed, I will post the screenshot of the Rioter responding to me as proof the automated bot being hasty, Your situation isn't the same as his, those screenshots aren't going to do anything for me. Edit: And even if the bot was hasty, do you wish that wasn't the case? We get a ton of people that already complain that inters/feeders/trolls/afkers don't get punished enough, so you want to make it _more_ lenient? > but I think how you're responding to this situation is very white knight-ish for Riot Don't really care how you perceive me. I get variations of that same comment every day on the Boards. "You're just a Riot employee", "you're just a white knight", and/or "look at the little Riot fanboy over here" all because I choose to not blindly believe everything I come across and want to actually, you know, think and discuss things. >when it could very well be an error in the chat filter or the bot being adjusted recently when it was fine before. It very well could be, you're right. If it was an error, they should definitely overturn OP's punishment. It's only fair. However, he's giving me different answers atm (now saying he's got the screenshots, that Riot reset his punishments to a 10 game chat restriction, and more) so there's clearly more to this situation.
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0002000100000000000000010001,timestamp=2019-04-10T16:14:54.896+0000) > > Except I provided alternatives for both scenarios. I gave responses to if what he was saying was true and if it wasn't true. > > You know what else is shitty? Claiming that 3 employees agreed that something was unjust, then not providing proof of it when asked. > > Your situation isn't the same as his, those screenshots aren't going to do anything for me. > > Edit: And even if the bot was hasty, do you wish that wasn't the case? We get a ton of people that already complain that inters/feeders/trolls/afkers don't get punished enough, so you want to make it _more_ lenient? > > Don't really care how you perceive me. I get variations of that same comment every day on the Boards. > > "You're just a Riot employee", "you're just a white knight", and/or "look at the little Riot fanboy over here" all because I choose to not blindly believe everything I come across and want to actually, you know, think and discuss things. > > It very well could be, you're right. If it was an error, they should definitely overturn OP's punishment. It's only fair. > > However, he's giving me different answers atm (now saying he's got the screenshots, that Riot reset his punishments to a 10 game chat restriction, and more) so there's clearly more to this situation. I am trying to post the pics lmao just haven't figured it out yet. Do I need to use imgur links or something?
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000d000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T14:33:18.509+0000) > > Aw I'm not lying. But that's ok if you don't trust me. I have my degree in in psych :^) > Have a nice day! Fine. I'll tough it out and talk with you. "I have my degree in in psych :^)" You're cheeky. "Have a nice day!" I spy intelligence. Edit: And here's the question - Where did you get that degree?
> [{quoted}](name=Schoenberg,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000d0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T14:38:50.784+0000) > > Fine. I'll tough it out and talk with you. > > "I have my degree in in psych :^)" > > You're cheeky. > > "Have a nice day!" > > I spy intelligence. > > Edit: And here's the question - Where did you get that degree? See I told ya! :^) = passive aggressive lol that's so strange Not an online university if that's what you're worried about. I went to a 4 year uni in Missouri. Don't feel comfortable or compelled on disclosing which, as I still live in the area :^) Can you tell me how to post pics in this?
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000d0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T14:13:31.880+0000) > > For sure there are many ways to get people to stop flaming. Interestingly enough, on one of my accounts I tested a "worst tilter" theory. If a teammate began to tilt and/or flame, I would fake rage in chat, saying things like "FF GAME OVER" or "GG NEXT." Simple things, not derogatory or name calling or anything. I found with enough CAPS messages like that, by showing I was the most "tilted" the others would stop typing and playing, as I reflected their feelings for them. Once they stopped typing, I stopped typing that stupid crap, and we all played, and most games ended in victory. Most of these games were those silly ones where a teammate dies early to a jungle gank and begins to feel hopeless and just starts tilting. It is a weird thing, but weird things work sometimes. My intent has never been to make people feel bad in any of those situations, more of a reverse psychology thing, but no doubt I prolly could have gotten punished for any of those games if the system decided it was toxic behavior. That account never received a penalty, but maybe today it would. > > God I sound whack, I know this. Stop lying. If you do, at least make it less obvious. You aren't showing that you're the most tilted in the game when you do that. That's passive aggressive, Friend. They know that you're saying those things because of their playing. And '99.9999%' of people aren't some sort of masochist, so they aren't going to feel inspired when you do that. Sorry, psychology is something I've been studying as a hobby on and off my entire life. That's not how reverse psychology works. That's you throwing around a term and hoping I don't know what it is. No. Just no. Anyhow, we're done here. Don't like liars.
> [{quoted}](name=Schoenberg,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000d00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T14:26:21.306+0000) > > Stop lying. If you do, at least make it less obvious. > > You aren't showing that you're the most tilted in the game when you do that. > > That's passive aggressive, Friend. They know that you're saying those things because of their playing. And '99.9999%' of people aren't some sort of masochist, so they aren't going to feel inspired when you do that. > > Sorry, psychology is something I've been studying as a hobby on and off my entire life. That's not how reverse psychology works. That's you throwing around terms and hoping that I don't know what it is. > > No. > > Just no. > > Anyhow, we're done here. > > Don't like liars. Aw I'm not lying. But that's ok if you don't trust me. I have my degree in in psych :^) Have a nice day!
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000d00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T13:52:56.386+0000) > > You didn't answer my question tho. I am not worried about the reaction of the player in the game at this point. My concern is what constitutes "flame" to avoid a power hungry ban bot. If you feel that "stfu stop typing" is flame, then just say it. > > It is interesting to see the spectrum of what people considers toxic. To me stfu stop typing is simply direct and no bs tolerance. I don't feel like I need to plead and beg my team with cute emojis and whatever to make myself seem less aggressive or angry lol. I don't like wasting time typing if that says anything Is it flame? Yes. Stop taking things literally. Is it BAD BAD flame? No. So, with your authority and 0 tolerance no bs, 'stfu stop typing' is going to make the flamer stop typing? I've chatted with flamers and gotten them to stop before, and what MIGHT make them stop is different for every single one. Has 'stfu stop typing' ever been a good way to get them to stop? No, no it hasn't. In fact, it's asking for more flame in literally every single case. Edit: I finally took the time to go through your chat logs and read the responses to them. People have already told you why you were punished.
> [{quoted}](name=Schoenberg,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000d000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T14:06:01.742+0000) > > Is it flame? Yes. Stop taking things literally. > > Is it BAD BAD flame? No, I didn't say that anywhere. It's just flame. > > So, with your authority and 0 tolerance no bs, 'stfu stop typing' is going to make the flamer stop typing? I've chatted with flamers and gotten them to stop before, and what MIGHT make them stop is different for every single one. Has 'stfu stop typing' ever been a good way to get them to stop? No, no it hasn't. In fact, it's asking for more flame in literally every single case. > > Edit: I finally took the time to go through your chat logs and read the responses to them. People have already told you why you were punished. How is stfu stop typing asking for more flame? Are you a victim blamer? When you reference other people telling me why I was punished, what exactly are you saying?
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000d00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T13:52:56.386+0000) > > You didn't answer my question tho. I am not worried about the reaction of the player in the game at this point. My concern is what constitutes "flame" to avoid a power hungry ban bot. If you feel that "stfu stop typing" is flame, then just say it. > > It is interesting to see the spectrum of what people considers toxic. To me stfu stop typing is simply direct and no bs tolerance. I don't feel like I need to plead and beg my team with cute emojis and whatever to make myself seem less aggressive or angry lol. I don't like wasting time typing if that says anything Is it flame? Yes. Stop taking things literally. Is it BAD BAD flame? No. So, with your authority and 0 tolerance no bs, 'stfu stop typing' is going to make the flamer stop typing? I've chatted with flamers and gotten them to stop before, and what MIGHT make them stop is different for every single one. Has 'stfu stop typing' ever been a good way to get them to stop? No, no it hasn't. In fact, it's asking for more flame in literally every single case. Edit: I finally took the time to go through your chat logs and read the responses to them. People have already told you why you were punished.
> [{quoted}](name=Schoenberg,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000d000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T14:06:01.742+0000) > > Is it flame? Yes, Jerald. Stop taking things literally. It just isn't the worst of the worst flame, Jerald. I didn't say that anywhere. > > So, with your authority and 0 tolerance no bs 'stfu stop typing' going to make the flamer stop typing? I've chatted with flamers and gotten them to stop before, and what MIGHT make them stop is different from every single one. Has 'stfu stop typing' ever been a good way to get them to stop? No, no it hasn't. In fact, it's just asking for more flame in literally every single case. For sure there are many ways to get people to stop flaming. Interestingly enough, on one of my accounts I tested a "worst tilter" theory. If a teammate began to tilt and/or flame, I would fake rage in chat, saying things like "FF GAME OVER" or "GG NEXT." Simple things, not derogatory or name calling or anything. I found with enough CAPS messages like that, by showing I was the most "tilted" the others would stop typing and playing, as I reflected their feelings for them. Once they stopped typing, I stopped typing that stupid crap, and we all played, and most games ended in victory. Most of these games were those silly ones where a teammate dies early to a jungle gank and begins to feel hopeless and just starts tilting. It is a weird thing, but weird things work sometimes. My intent has never been to make people feel bad in any of those situations, more of a reverse psychology thing, but no doubt I prolly could have gotten punished for any of those games if the system decided it was toxic behavior. That account never received a penalty, but maybe today it would. God I sound whack, I know this.
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=001b0000,timestamp=2019-04-10T13:44:38.020+0000) > > Once again, I figure for every appeal, there instead could be a review instead. A human has to review the game for an appeal, might as well hold some due diligence and review a case before banning an innocent account and pissing people off yaknow? You fail to grasp just how many humans that'd take and a bot already does the job just fine for chat restrictions. Are there mistakes? Yes, and humans would make them, too. Especially if they were forced to dredge through the shit-stains that are league chat logs. Tedious, wearing and a waste of money. If anything, put that money into creating a system that is better at detecting inters. The only thing that needs to be done is to have their automated system improved upon.
> [{quoted}](name=Schoenberg,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=001b00000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T13:51:06.797+0000) > > You fail to grasp just how many humans that'd take and a bot already does the job just fine for chat restrictions. Are there mistakes? Yes, and humans would make them, too. Especially if they were forced to dredge through the shit-stains that are league chat logs. Tedious, wearing and a waste of money. If anything, put that money into creating a system that is better at detecting inters. > > The only thing that needs to be done is to have their automated system improved upon. For sure! That is my point. There are many options. I imagine the many people in US law system have to deal with "dredging through the shit-stains" of many irl cases. There could be a department within Riot made to deal with this. Of course I understand it would be a process and a costly process, and it also depends on Riot's true priorities. It is all just speculation and ideas at this point
: Honestly , I agree with the OP, but I would also say riot needs to have a Better Definition of what is TOXIC and what is Frustration. I'm a firm believer that this is a competitive game, and in these types of games, people can get frustrated and upset when losing. This is a Esport game, players want to play competitive and like any sport when you start to lose you get frustrated not only with yourself but your team members as well. And Riot needs to stop Bullshitting themselves and realize that this game is pretty trolly and frustrating and their ranking system is FAR from perfect on giving 50/50 Game chances between smurfs, and trolls and trolling smurfs, and so on . So yes people will say stuff like DUDE you suck or UGH I hate this player all he's doing is feeding. and so on because yes its frustrating and people need to vent, and how do you not expect people to vent in a game when most the communication is via Typing in ALL chat or Chat. But with that said. Riot needs to understand and have a more unified definition of what TOXIC behavior is because frustration venting is WAAAAAY different then some one Being toxic and telling some one to Kill themselves, or Insert Racist remark here. or dropping off Swear words at some one or hoping they die or some thing.
> [{quoted}](name=Ambient Snow,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=001e,timestamp=2019-04-10T13:44:47.497+0000) > > Honestly , I agree with the OP, but I would also say riot needs to have a Better Definition of what is TOXIC and what is Frustration. > > I'm a firm believer that this is a competitive game, and in these types of games, people can get frustrated and upset when losing. > > This is a Esport game, players want to play competitive and like any sport when you start to lose you get frustrated not only with yourself but your team members as well. And Riot needs to stop Bullshitting themselves and realize that this game is pretty trolly and frustrating and their ranking system is FAR from perfect on giving 50/50 Game chances between smurfs, and trolls and trolling smurfs, and so on . > > So yes people will say stuff like DUDE you suck or UGH I hate this player all he's doing is feeding. and so on because yes its frustrating and people need to vent, and how do you not expect people to vent in a game when most the communication is via Typing in ALL chat or Chat. > > But with that said. > > Riot needs to understand and have a more unified definition of what TOXIC behavior is because frustration venting is WAAAAAY different then some one Being toxic and telling some one to Kill themselves, or Insert Racist remark here. or dropping off Swear words at some one or hoping they die or some thing. Perfection. That is a big stipulation here. I do not see really anywhere how Riot has tried to define "toxic" behavior in chat or what "flaming" involves. If I have a teammate playing like a silver level player in a diamond game, do I not have the right to say "this player might be boosted idk game feels over." It could be a factual statement behind the curtains, but even if it is just a bad game for the player, it is acknowledging that how one player is tanking the team may be reason enough to ff early. Intent and context is important in all cases.
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000d000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T13:35:25.931+0000) > > Is telling team to stfu stop typing flame? What is it supposed to accomplish? Is you TELLING the flamer stfu stop typing going to make them stop flaming? You tell me.
> [{quoted}](name=Schoenberg,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000d0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T13:42:16.425+0000) > > What is it supposed to accomplish? Is you TELLING the flamer stfu stop typing going to make them stop flaming? > > You tell me. You didn't answer my question tho. I am not worried about the reaction of the player in the game at this point. My concern is what constitutes "flame" to avoid a power hungry ban bot. If you feel that "stfu stop typing" is flame, then just say it. It is interesting to see the spectrum of what people considers toxic. To me stfu stop typing is simply direct and no bs tolerance. I don't feel like I need to plead and beg my team with cute emojis and whatever to make myself seem less aggressive or angry lol. I don't like wasting time typing if that says anything Even then apparently my ":^)" comes off as passive aggressive lmao
: > [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=00020001000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T00:33:16.632+0000) > > He said his first punishment was a 14-day ban. I'm going to quote Busty Demoness here because they summed it up nicely: > > _"If your first punishment was a 2 week suspension, then you clearly crossed a zero tolerance line. The big ones are death threats, encouraging self harm, and hate speech (including blatantly racist/sexist/homophobic terms). There is no other way for that punishment to be your first."_ > > When he openly disregards his previous punishment that specifically said "**Any continued negativity will result in a permanent suspension**", yes. > > Does it suck that he went from clean slate to 14-day to permanent ban? Sure, but he used racist, homophobic, or derogatory statements outside of the 'usual flame' that most people use. Special situation calls for special punishments/rules. > > He brought it on himself. > > Boards punishments and live-game punishments are separate. I could log in with my permanently banned account here and still have full use on the Boards. Coming in and accusing him of lying is pretty shitty. If needed, I will post the screenshot of the Rioter responding to me as proof the automated bot being hasty, but I think how you're responding to this situation is very white knight-ish for Riot when it could very well be an error in the chat filter or the bot being adjusted recently when it was fine before.
> [{quoted}](name=Sourpatchkittens,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000200010000000000000001,timestamp=2019-04-10T13:11:30.064+0000) > > Coming in and accusing him of lying is pretty shitty. If needed, I will post the screenshot of the Rioter responding to me as proof the automated bot being hasty, but I think how you're responding to this situation is very white knight-ish for Riot when it could very well be an error in the chat filter or the bot being adjusted recently when it was fine before. Yes some people have been very presumptuous hopping into this post. I did not post to start a shit storm or get some kind of clout or whatever. I was extremely frustrated, processed my thoughts and emotions, hashed this out in my appeal, and was recommended by Riot Skeletor to post on this forum. Pretty simple imo
: what you dont realize is that while disabling chat outright or even just giving people a chat disabled as their penalty is an amazing idea but would lose riot a truckload of money. its a very simple formula: ban accounts. people make more accounts. riot can tell their stockholders they have a bigger playerbase and stock price increase. also those people who spent money on their banned acct might also spend money on their new acct. riot get rich. community more toxic. more banned accts. repeat the cycle. riot is not going to do anything positive about toxicity it would lose them money. its up to us to stop the endless cycle of seemingly random bans(ive said things a million times worse than what you claim WITHOUT a ban). you can disable your chat all together or just ignore it. on a side note i just got a chat restriction for flaming and telling people i was going to report them for using an ai script(very obvious one that just kept suiciding to jg camps) and i guarantee they are still doing it without riot even batting an eye.
> [{quoted}](name=actualytryndawin,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=001d,timestamp=2019-04-10T12:22:23.814+0000) > > what you dont realize is that while disabling chat outright or even just giving people a chat disabled as their penalty is an amazing idea but would lose riot a truckload of money. its a very simple formula: ban accounts. people make more accounts. riot can tell their stockholders they have a bigger playerbase and stock price increase. also those people who spent money on their banned acct might also spend money on their new acct. riot get rich. community more toxic. more banned accts. repeat the cycle. > > riot is not going to do anything positive about toxicity it would lose them money. its up to us to stop the endless cycle of seemingly random bans(ive said things a million times worse than what you claim WITHOUT a ban). you can disable your chat all together or just ignore it. > > on a side note i just got a chat restriction for flaming and telling people i was going to report them for using an ai script(very obvious one that just kept suiciding to jg camps) and i guarantee they are still doing it without riot even batting an eye. Interesting. I never thought much about the making more accounts point. The thing is even I have multiple accounts, but in no way could they ever replace my main account. I am not some toxic flamer on any of my accounts. If I lost my main account for no good reason, I would stop playing the game entirely, and delete all my accounts.
: 1. It is impossible for humans to monitor a game of this size. 2. It is not Riot's responsibility to babysit players whose parents failed to raise them with the social skills to interact with other people. 3. There is an appeals process. The bots will never be perfect. They are a necessary evil since some players can't control their own behavior.
> [{quoted}](name=SammyDayspring,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2019-04-10T04:00:46.939+0000) > > 1. It is impossible for humans to monitor a game of this size. > 2. It is not Riot's responsibility to babysit players whose parents failed to raise them with the social skills to interact with other people. > 3. There is an appeals process. The bots will never be perfect. They are a necessary evil since some players can't control their own behavior. Once again, I figure for every appeal, there instead could be a review instead. A human has to review the game for an appeal, might as well hold some due diligence and review a case before banning an innocent account and pissing people off yaknow?
: People get banned for calling others bad. And yet when someone intentionally feeds in a game and flames their teammates, they have no punishment. For some reason, words are punished way more harshly than actions. If you intentionally feed in a ranked game your account should be banned permanently. End of story.
> [{quoted}](name=FrozenFitzgerald,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2019-04-10T01:37:15.069+0000) > > People get banned for calling others bad. > > And yet when someone intentionally feeds in a game and flames their teammates, they have no punishment. For some reason, words are punished way more harshly than actions. > > If you intentionally feed in a ranked game your account should be banned permanently. End of story. Agreed
: The bot is better because it isn't biased.
> [{quoted}](name=DerankingInter,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2019-04-10T01:16:53.168+0000) > > The bot is better because it isn't biased. Sure, but it is too nit picky apparently
Hotarµ (NA)
: >I mean if the OP is telling the truth then they didn't deserve either of those 2 punishments because they were way to harsh considering what was said. He said his first punishment was a 14-day ban. I'm going to quote Busty Demoness here because they summed it up nicely: _"If your first punishment was a 2 week suspension, then you clearly crossed a zero tolerance line. The big ones are death threats, encouraging self harm, and hate speech (including blatantly racist/sexist/homophobic terms). There is no other way for that punishment to be your first."_ >I mean does "stfu and stop typing" really sound like a bannable offense? When he openly disregards his previous punishment that specifically said "**Any continued negativity will result in a permanent suspension**", yes. Does it suck that he went from clean slate to 14-day to permanent ban? Sure, but he used racist, homophobic, or derogatory statements outside of the 'usual flame' that most people use. Special situation calls for special punishments/rules. He brought it on himself. >Also I assume this account the OP is on is the account that was perma banned in the first place so I assume they have it back since they are posting with it. Could be wrong though. Boards punishments and live-game punishments are separate. I could log in with my permanently banned account here and still have full use on the Boards.
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=00020001000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T00:33:16.632+0000) > > He said his first punishment was a 14-day ban. I'm going to quote Busty Demoness here because they summed it up nicely: > > _"If your first punishment was a 2 week suspension, then you clearly crossed a zero tolerance line. The big ones are death threats, encouraging self harm, and hate speech (including blatantly racist/sexist/homophobic terms). There is no other way for that punishment to be your first."_ > > When he openly disregards his previous punishment that specifically said "**Any continued negativity will result in a permanent suspension**", yes. > > Does it suck that he went from clean slate to 14-day to permanent ban? Sure, but he used racist, homophobic, or derogatory statements outside of the 'usual flame' that most people use. Special situation calls for special punishments/rules. > > He brought it on himself. > > Boards punishments and live-game punishments are separate. I could log in with my permanently banned account here and still have full use on the Boards. I never said or say anything racist, homophobic or anything like that. I guess derogatory includes things like "bad" and "suck?" So doing that in one game constitutes a 14 day suspension? I'm not some ravage flamer, promise :^)
: > [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2019-04-09T15:39:25.710+0000) > > I sifted through every comment and the edit in the original post and unless I missed something (in which case please link it, because I genuinely couldn't find it) OP hasn't provided _actual proof_ of this happening. > > So 3 separate Rioters (not even Support staff, **actual** Rioters) all reviewed the situation, looked at the punishment, and _all_ agreed it was unwarranted? And then they just didn't do anything about it? No talking to higher-ups, they didn't revert the punishment, and they didn't alter the system in any way? Plenty of people have said this just to gather community support in the past, so nah, I don't buy it. > > Proof or it didn't happen, simple as that. > > Edit: and when I say proof, I mean _hard_ evidence in the form of screenshots. > > And even if they did say something along those lines, it doesn't change the fact that OP had ample time to change his behavior and heed the warning he got that specifically said "**Any continued negativity will result in a permanent suspension.**" In that case, yeah, it's a shitty situation, but it could have been avoided altogether. I mean if the OP is telling the truth then they didn't deserve either of those 2 punishments because they were way to harsh considering what was said. I mean does "stfu and stop typing" really sound like a bannable offense? Hell Even the first one was extremely harsh considering what little was said. Also I assume this account the OP is on is the account that was perma banned in the first place so I assume they have it back since they are posting with it. Could be wrong though.
> [{quoted}](name=INoble KnightI,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0002000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T00:01:18.848+0000) > > I mean if the OP is telling the truth then they didn't deserve either of those 2 punishments because they were way to harsh considering what was said. I mean does "stfu and stop typing" really sound like a bannable offense? Hell Even the first one was extremely harsh considering what little was said. Also I assume this account the OP is on is the account that was perma banned in the first place so I assume they have it back since they are posting with it. Could be wrong though. You are correct I have it back with 10 game chat restrict and rest honor :(
Hotarµ (NA)
: > If 3 Rioters say it was to harsh then you're saying that the OP and all 3 Rioters are wrong. Who is more likely to be in the wrong, a bot or 4 people (3 of which are people working for RIOT) I sifted through every comment and the edit in the original post and unless I missed something (in which case please link it, because I genuinely couldn't find it) OP hasn't provided _actual proof_ of this happening. So 3 separate Rioters (not even Support staff, **actual** Rioters) all reviewed the situation, looked at the punishment, and _all_ agreed it was unwarranted? And then they just didn't do anything about it? No talking to higher-ups, they didn't revert the punishment, and they didn't alter the system in any way? Plenty of people have said this just to gather community support in the past, so nah, I don't buy it. Proof or it didn't happen, simple as that. Edit: and when I say proof, I mean _hard_ evidence in the form of screenshots. And even if they did say something along those lines, it doesn't change the fact that OP had ample time to change his behavior and heed the warning he got that specifically said "**Any continued negativity will result in a permanent suspension.**" In that case, yeah, it's a shitty situation, but it could have been avoided altogether.
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2019-04-09T15:39:25.710+0000) > > I sifted through every comment and the edit in the original post and unless I missed something (in which case please link it, because I genuinely couldn't find it) OP hasn't provided _actual proof_ of this happening. > > So 3 separate Rioters (not even Support staff, **actual** Rioters) all reviewed the situation, looked at the punishment, and _all_ agreed it was unwarranted? And then they just didn't do anything about it? No talking to higher-ups, they didn't revert the punishment, and they didn't alter the system in any way? Plenty of people have said this just to gather community support in the past, so nah, I don't buy it. > > Proof or it didn't happen, simple as that. > > Edit: and when I say proof, I mean _hard_ evidence in the form of screenshots. > > And even if they did say something along those lines, it doesn't change the fact that OP had ample time to change his behavior and heed the warning he got that specifically said "**Any continued negativity will result in a permanent suspension.**" In that case, yeah, it's a shitty situation, but it could have been avoided altogether. They reduced both punishments to 10 game chat restrictions. So they did do something, I feel like this last one should have been reduced to no punishment whatsoever, including resetting my honor. I can provide screenshots of their confirmations of the system over penalizing. Will do in OP or in a comment whichever is easier.
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2019-04-09T12:22:23.085+0000) > > It is not about a self control problem. The point I made with that is that if I feel that the chat moderation penalty system is compromised enough and that I may face similar issues in the future with a risk I do not want to take, then I would appreciate the option to disable chat in the client settings so I don't have to manually do it every game, as it feels as though my account is under unnecessary scrutiny from their system. This is a product of distrust in the system, and a product of not wanting to be over penalized for a third time. > > Also the point of discussion starts here. Maybe the system is beginning to have problems, and this post may be referenced in the future, as more people contribute their own experience with this issue. Who knows tho! Maybe it is a complete fluke 1. Don’t flame them. It is a self-control issue which comes about due to frustration, which is understandable. Lots of folks still do it and I used to. 2. You can still make a good post criticizing/critiquing their system. Their system IS quite poopy and in need of improvement, as you have said.
> [{quoted}](name=Schoenberg,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000d00000000,timestamp=2019-04-09T19:31:23.872+0000) > > 1. Don’t flame them. It is a self-control issue which comes about due to frustration, which is understandable. Lots of folks still do it and I used to. > 2. You can still make a good post criticizing/critiquing their system. Their system IS quite poopy and in need of improvement, as you have said. Is telling team to stfu stop typing flame?
Hailren (NA)
: So you said muting all and didn't do it your own fault for feeding into the toxicity maybe /mute all for real next time?
> [{quoted}](name=Hailren,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2019-04-09T16:23:37.001+0000) > > So you said muting all and didn't do it your own fault for feeding into the toxicity maybe /mute all for real next time? So wise
: Keep the animated system, it's already nearly as good as any human is going to be, but does it much, MUCH quicker. Yours was a fluke and I would not be surprised at all if the system bans correctly 90-95% of the time, and those who do know that they were unjustly punished can take it to the forums/support. The majority of the ones that I see on the forums are complaining about COMPLETELY fair bans versus unjust punishments. That having been said, there's always room for improvement, and riot's system is far from being an exception. Humans just aren't the answer. Wayyy, wayyyyy too much effort. You'd need hundreds for each region and reports would likely pile up over Christmas break when all the toxic kiddies are out of school. Riot does not need to pour money into maintaining **that** type of job, they need to improve their system. "Disable chat across the board to avoid toxic communication within your game." No. All-chat is admittedly almost never used for anything good, but it still adds a social aspect to the game that I doubt Riot would be willing to remove, no matter how beneficial. That and I believe there's a way to disable it if you feel you can't control yourself. "Remove the power of suspensions/bans from the penalty bot, it is not fair for people to suffer overly harsh penalties or lose access of their accounts for periods of time before a human even looks at the situation." This would require TONS of effort, effort which is probably best spent elsewhere. The bot is sufficient in most cases and keep in mind that humans DO have different takes on situations, too. There would still be some amount of false bans. "Bring back tribunal or create a team designated to WORK WITH a bot that has the ability to flag potential suspension/ban worthy behaviors." This is interesting. "Provide an option for people to completely disable chat on their accounts, to avoid getting baited into human interaction within the game and to treat the players they're playing with as bots to avoid potential trigger words/symbols that trigger an unwarranted penalty." If you can't control yourself and stop yourself from flaming the trolls, work on self-control. You're going to meet people like that in real life and if you can't control yourself you're going to get fired/other bad shit. That aside, the option would not hurt at all and it probably shouldn't take much effort to implement at all.
> [{quoted}](name=Schoenberg,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-04-08T21:38:19.429+0000) > > Keep the animated system, it's already nearly as good as any human is going to be, but does it much, MUCH quicker. Yours was a fluke and I would not be surprised at all if the system bans correctly 90-95% of the time, and those who do know that they were unjustly punished can take it to the forums/support. The majority of the ones that I see on the forums are complaining about COMPLETELY fair bans versus unjust punishments. > > That having been said, there's always room for improvement, and riot's system is far from being an exception. Humans just aren't the answer. Wayyy, wayyyyy too much effort. You'd need hundreds for each region and reports would likely pile up over Christmas break when all the toxic kiddies are out of school. Riot does not need to pour money into maintaining **that** type of job, they need to improve their system. > > "Disable chat across the board to avoid toxic communication within your game." > No. All-chat is admittedly almost never used for anything good, but it still adds a social aspect to the game that I doubt Riot would be willing to remove, no matter how beneficial. That and I believe there's a way to disable it if you feel you can't control yourself. > > "Remove the power of suspensions/bans from the penalty bot, it is not fair for people to suffer overly harsh penalties or lose access of their accounts for > periods of time before a human even looks at the situation." > This would require TONS of effort, effort which is probably best spent elsewhere. The bot is sufficient in most cases and keep in mind that humans DO have different takes on situations, too. There would still be some amount of false bans. > > "Bring back tribunal or create a team designated to WORK WITH a bot that has the ability to flag potential suspension/ban worthy behaviors." > This is interesting. > > "Provide an option for people to completely disable chat on their accounts, to avoid getting baited into human interaction within the game and to treat the players they're playing with as bots to avoid potential trigger words/symbols that trigger an unwarranted penalty." > If you can't control yourself and stop yourself from flaming the trolls, work on self-control. You're going to meet people like that in real life and if you can't control yourself you're going to get fired/other bad shit. That aside, the option would not hurt at all and it probably shouldn't take much effort to implement at all. It is not about a self control problem. The point I made with that is that if I feel that the chat moderation penalty system is compromised enough and that I may face similar issues in the future with a risk I do not want to take, then I would appreciate the option to disable chat in the client settings so I don't have to manually do it every game, as it feels as though my account is under unnecessary scrutiny from their system. This is a product of distrust in the system, and a product of not wanting to be over penalized for a third time. Also the point of discussion starts here. Maybe the system is beginning to have problems, and this post may be referenced in the future, as more people contribute their own experience with this issue. Who knows tho! Maybe it is a complete fluke
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c000000000000000100010000,timestamp=2019-04-09T03:40:21.435+0000) > > Agreed. My interactions on league or even irl honestly never required me to communicate in such a cushioned manner. My bluntness and lack of patience for tedious irrelevant details after explaining everything as best as possible does not come with the intent of hurting feelings and God knows people can insulted by anything. > > I promise I’m a pretty decent person, whether that can be interpreted online or not is not my problem (until I get banned for silly tedious things I suppose). I do not doubt you are a fairly decent person, but unlike in real life where it could just be a slip of the tounge or caught in the moment... or in game where it can be caught in the moment.... On the boards there is not really an excuse. People are human, and they get upset, but you can easily avoid insulting people and it is not "cushioned".... it is simply talking like you have something to say and then just saying it. Plus, although part of it is that people get upset.... the majority of why it is not allowed is that insulting gets you no where. It creates more problems than it solves as is seen here. One insult can make an entirely good arguement go to waste.... so it is best to just avoid doing so.
> [{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c0000000000000001000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-09T04:46:03.671+0000) > > I do not doubt you are a fairly decent person, but unlike in real life where it could just be a slip of the tounge or caught in the moment... or in game where it can be caught in the moment.... > > On the boards there is not really an excuse. People are human, and they get upset, but you can easily avoid insulting people and it is not "cushioned".... it is simply talking like you have something to say and then just saying it. > > Plus, although part of it is that people get upset.... the majority of why it is not allowed is that insulting gets you no where. It creates more problems than it solves as is seen here. One insult can make an entirely good arguement go to waste.... so it is best to just avoid doing so. Agreed!
: Do you realise how many people play this game? and how many people are reported a day? it's probably in the millions, and riot would need to hire an entire team of 100s of people just to skim through logs alone.
> [{quoted}](name=Basstaper,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2019-04-09T05:39:34.382+0000) > > Do you realise how many people play this game? and how many people are reported a day? it's probably in the millions, and riot would need to hire an entire team of 100s of people just to skim through logs alone. I’m aware! They’ll have less players to worry about if they don’t do something to help fix this
Morbys (NA)
: The bots are REALLY bad, and don't take into consideration how bad you're getting flamed before you try and stick up for yourself. The current environment promotes bullying. All you can do is mute these kids and hope they get their just desserts.
> [{quoted}](name=Morbys,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2019-04-09T05:59:53.969+0000) > > The bots are REALLY bad, and don't take into consideration how bad you're getting flamed before you try and stick up for yourself. The current environment promotes bullying. All you can do is mute these kids and hope they get their just desserts. Injustice or even simply perceived injustice can be enough to start a full scale riot (not Riot). If this becomes a common enough issue I’d hate to think what could happen to the game. Instantly losing honor and not getting it back even after correction is frustrating. Losing access to your account during the only weekend you may have to play is infuriating. I can agree it’s easy to /mute all, but the fact is by pitching that as the absolute solution to all of this simply admits that the system is not doing its job with eliminating ACTUAL toxic players and that people who correctly use chat cannot use chat for fear of critical system mistakes
: WOW, just wow. Half the people here clearly didn't even read the whole post before posting and judging the OP. I've been saying that this report AI has been garbage for years. I have never once been punished mind you, but I have reported people that I literally recorded in game doing and saying some really horrible shit only to end up in the next game, even 2, EVEN 3 with them, and not get punished. Never got that little pop up telling me "thanks for the helping the community from toxic people blah blah blah" I once lost it when the amumu flamed me a whole aram game because i accidently took 1 kill, I apologised, he proceeded to take all the health globes (before the AOE heal update) from me when i was low on hp, saying "no, only good players get those, git gud" I sent in the recording through support ticket, explaining why i sent it in, how i do not trust the report system in place, they couldn't tell me rather or not they would do anything due to privacy but were very apologetic, sympathising that they want to discorage this behavior, and seemed overall glad i sent it in. and I went my merry way. I logged back in a day after resolving my ticket, and for the first time ever I got that little pop up, so I KNEW that Amumu go what he deserved. BUT THE FACT IS, that would not have happened had I trusted the report system to do its job, instead of sending in a Recording to a REAL person to review the game and his behavior. I get the need for AI due to the massive playerbase, but they NEED to do better at monitoring and teaching it, and I don't think they do enough to address the systems complacencies.
> [{quoted}](name=Evil Jester,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2019-04-09T06:08:33.096+0000) > > WOW, just wow. Half the people here clearly didn't even read the whole post before posting and judging the OP. > > I've been saying that this report AI has been garbage for years. I have never once been punished mind you, but I have reported people that I literally recorded in game doing and saying some really horrible shit only to end up in the next game, even 2, EVEN 3 with them, and not get punished. Never got that little pop up telling me "thanks for the helping the community from toxic people blah blah blah" > > I once lost it when the amumu flamed me a whole aram game because i accidently took 1 kill, I apologised, he proceeded to take all the health globes (before the AOE heal update) from me when i was low on hp, saying "no, only good players get those, git gud" > > I sent in the recording through support ticket, explaining why i sent it in, how i do not trust the report system in place, they couldn't tell me rather or not they would do anything due to privacy but were very apologetic, sympathising that they want to discorage this behavior, and seemed overall glad i sent it in. and I went my merry way. > > I logged back in a day after resolving my ticket, and for the first time ever I got that little pop up, so I KNEW that Amumu go what he deserved. > > BUT THE FACT IS, that would not have happened had I trusted the report system to do its job, instead of sending in a Recording to a REAL person to review the game and his behavior. > > I get the need for AI due to the massive playerbase, but they NEED to do better at monitoring and teaching it, and I don't think they do enough to address the systems complacencies. Thanks so much for sharing your input and experience! I also had similar situations where the same extremely toxic teammates continued to get into my games even though I reported them each time. Yet I was banned by the next champion select for the chat log I provided on here! It’s pretty crazy and NEEDS to be fixed!!
: I had the same thing happen to me. My account was 14 day banned for calling someone on my team r%%%%%ed and wanting to ff the game and go next I'm not saying my chat log was clean, but it was 1 game and I had never received a warning or any other punishment previously. I think the chat bot got adjusted or something because it's never been this sensitive before to my knoweldge, and it should not be jumping to 14 day bans for relatively tame first offenses. I wrote into player support and they agreed the ban was harsh. Here is a copy of their response to me and my punishment was reversed it to a chat restriction. (Riot Games Player Support) Apr 4, 9:37 PM PDT Hey there Thanks for reaching out about this penalty on your account, looking at the game in question I do see that our system was a bit hasty here. While you were contributing to a more negative environment by insulting others, calling for reports, and calling out poor performance/decisions, this behavior wasn't so extreme that it should have warranted a two-week suspension. I've gone ahead and reverted this back down to a chat restriction, as that was the penalty that should have been placed for this conduct. In the future when other players are giving you a hard time I strongly encourage you to mute the players in question and focus on the match until you are able to report them yourself. Reports do not stack and it only takes one to put a player on our radar, so please do continue to use the post-game report system to bring negativity to our attention. Let me know if you have any other questions, and thanks again for reaching out. ***** Player Support Zaun Cleanup Crew
> [{quoted}](name=Sourpatchkittens,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2019-04-09T06:36:03.756+0000) > > I had the same thing happen to me. My account was 14 day banned for calling someone on my team r%%%%%ed and wanting to ff the game and go next I'm not saying my chat log was clean, but it was 1 game and I had never received a warning or any other punishment previously. I think the chat bot got adjusted or something because it's never been this sensitive before to my knoweldge, and it should not be jumping to 14 day bans for relatively tame first offenses. I wrote into player support and they agreed the ban was harsh. Here is a copy of their response to me and my punishment was reversed it to a chat restriction. > > > (Riot Games Player Support) > > Apr 4, 9:37 PM PDT > > Hey there > > Thanks for reaching out about this penalty on your account, looking at the game in question I do see that our system was a bit hasty here. While you were contributing to a more negative environment by insulting others, calling for reports, and calling out poor performance/decisions, this behavior wasn't so extreme that it should have warranted a two-week suspension. I've gone ahead and reverted this back down to a chat restriction, as that was the penalty that should have been placed for this conduct. > > In the future when other players are giving you a hard time I strongly encourage you to mute the players in question and focus on the match until you are able to report them yourself. Reports do not stack and it only takes one to put a player on our radar, so please do continue to use the post-game report system to bring negativity to our attention. > > Let me know if you have any other questions, and thanks again for reaching out. > > ***** > Player Support > Zaun Cleanup Crew Yup! That’s how my first penalty situation went as well and this is the entire point of my proposed discussion here. For me it’s extremely inconvenient and frustrating to have to deal with the consequences of their system’s mistake and to be overly worried about it happening again. It’s not fair nor justifiable that I lose all my built up honor and access to my account when I have little time to play much anymore. If this becomes a common enough issue, Riot will drive out their player base. So I figured it would be worth discussing for everyone’s sake
: > [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c0000000000000001,timestamp=2019-04-09T00:16:13.290+0000) > > There's no ranked ladder for misbehavior. Punishments aren't a prize only awarded to the most toxic players. If the IFS determines that someone broke the game's code of conduct, which the OP definitely did, they get a punishment, even if it's not literally the worst behavior anyone has ever seen. It's like trying to get out of a speeding ticket by saying that other people sometimes go 20 over the limit, so going 10 over the limit should be fine. No. OP broke the rules. That is punishable. Call it "silly" all you want, but at the end of the day those are the rules Riot has put into place, and I can play on my main because I don't tell people to STFU and stop typing. > > I'm not sure there'd be much of a point to lifting the permaban anyway. OP has clearly demonstrated that they don't know how to be civil and follow rules when using someone else's services. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they got more punishments in the future and ended up with a permaban. Again. Though it is not reflected in the main post.... they already had it reduced to 10 game chat restrict each. What you are doing here is just continuing on with something that was already resolved. It has been pointed out to them that they likely had previous games that did not warrent a punishment and that the chat log is just the straw that broke the camels back. You pointed out how it is viewed as toxic behavior, however that alone is NOT warrenting the next punishment tier all by itself. It had to have had additional things from previous games that is just adding up..... because that game alone even with increased watchfulness would not cause it. I admit that they should not have gone insulting you, but you are pretty much insulting them as well. Both of you can just ignore eachother now in peace now that you both have made your points known to eachother.
> [{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c00000000000000010001,timestamp=2019-04-09T01:46:48.872+0000) > > Though it is not reflected in the main post.... they already had it reduced to 10 game chat restrict each. What you are doing here is just continuing on with something that was already resolved. > > It has been pointed out to them that they likely had previous games that did not warrent a punishment and that the chat log is just the straw that broke the camels back. You pointed out how it is viewed as toxic behavior, however that alone is NOT warrenting the next punishment tier all by itself. It had to have had additional things from previous games that is just adding up..... because that game alone even with increased watchfulness would not cause it. > > I admit that they should not have gone insulting you, but you are pretty much insulting them as well. Both of you can just ignore eachother now in peace now that you both have made your points known to eachother. Agreed. My interactions on league or even irl honestly never required me to communicate in such a cushioned manner. My bluntness and lack of patience for tedious irrelevant details after explaining everything as best as possible does not come with the intent of hurting feelings and God knows people can insulted by anything. I promise I’m a pretty decent person, whether that can be interpreted online or not is not my problem (until I get banned for silly tedious things I suppose).
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-09T00:05:27.962+0000) > > I appreciate your input greatly. This is an accurate representation of how most of the people I have spoken to feel as well. Have you noticed that when someone even partially disagrees with you, you call them "glass," start with the passive-aggressive sarcasm, but when they fully validate your rude and illogical beliefs, you praise them? All you're looking for is an echo chamber.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-09T00:17:00.490+0000) > > Have you noticed that when someone even partially disagrees with you, you call them "glass," start with the passive-aggressive sarcasm, but when they fully validate your rude and illogical beliefs, you praise them? All you're looking for is an echo chamber. Clearly I’m toxic AND egotistical :^)
: > [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T21:41:33.874+0000) > > Allow me to refresh your memory of the log you posted five hours ago. > KTFresh: idc > KTFresh: stfu > KTFresh: u can waste time typing > KTFresh: idc > KTFresh: muting all > KTFresh: team player? > KTFresh: youre flaming LOL > KTFresh: no > KTFresh: i havent been > KTFresh: real flame telling ppl to stop typing amirite > KTFresh: while u call everyone bad > KTFresh: XD > KTFresh: right > KTFresh: im flaming > KTFresh: to what > KTFresh: being told to stop typing > KTFresh: imma just type > KTFresh: have fun > KTFresh: typing is prio > [All]KTFresh: gg > [All]KTFresh: report everyone but ez tbh > [All]KTFresh: toxic > KTFresh: yall so conerned about duos > KTFresh: when yall duo > [All]KTFresh: LOL > > None of this was constructive or helpful in any way. You simply spent the match arguing with your team and calling for reports (which is considered harassment and doesn't actually accomplish anything, by the way - one report is enough to trigger a review). This is 100% punishable. > > You didn't post a log of your first punishment, so all I have to go on is that your inappropriate chat consisted only of "bad" and "noob" exactly one time apiece, which might warrant a punishment but not an escalation to a 14-day suspension. > > Look over what the support rep told you in your ticket for that first punishment. They may have reduced your current punishment without affecting your punishment tier, which might possibly have happened if your chat log was worse than you're claiming here. It's the rep's job to make that sort of thing perfectly clear, though. If the rep gave the impression that your punishment tier was being reduced to the chat restriction tier, then a permaban for a second offense would be erroneous and you should work with support (or perhaps keep trying in this thread, if support is just looking at whether you've had a 14-day and whether your current chat deserves a punishment). > > Note that insulting people who are trying to participate in a discussion and help you correct a potentially erroneous punishment doesn't really help you. At all. I'm sorry but I've seen a hell of a lot worse in games I've been in, his log is basically nothing. I've also reported much worse than that and never gotten a notification that anything was done about it except maybe once or twice. Even a chat ban is seriously overreaching there. If anything this proves that the system can be abused because clearly the rest of his team was salty and reported him and I'm willing to bet that was the justification the bot used for the ban opposed to anything he actually said. There's really nothing punishable in this at all. And to try and justify it is just silly. Clearly Riot agreed. I'm willing to bet that if they weren't just trying to cover their own asses with their automated system if this had been manually reviewed it would have just been thrown out as a garbage report entirely. And for what it's worth I've played this game since before Season 1 and have never had any sort of punishment at all. I'm not defending him or flaming in general cuz it does ruin games but this chat log is more mild than most games I'm in.
> [{quoted}](name=Hella Gay Nerd,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T23:54:36.303+0000) > > I'm sorry but I've seen a hell of a lot worse in games I've been in, his log is basically nothing. I've also reported much worse than that and never gotten a notification that anything was done about it except maybe once or twice. > > Even a chat ban is seriously overreaching there. If anything this proves that the system can be abused because clearly the rest of his team was salty and reported him and I'm willing to bet that was the justification the bot used for the ban opposed to anything he actually said. > > There's really nothing punishable in this at all. And to try and justify it is just silly. Clearly Riot agreed. I'm willing to bet that if they weren't just trying to cover their own asses with their automated system if this had been manually reviewed it would have just been thrown out as a garbage report entirely. > > And for what it's worth I've played this game since before Season 1 and have never had any sort of punishment at all. I'm not defending him or flaming in general cuz it does ruin games but this chat log is more mild than most games I'm in. I appreciate your input greatly. This is an accurate representation of how most of the people I have spoken to feel as well.
Audhulma (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-08T15:43:19.533+0000) > > 2. Remove the power of suspensions/bans from the penalty bot, it is not fair for people to suffer overly harsh penalties or lose access of their accounts for periods of time before a human even looks at the situation. (this is a long one, just bear with me.) V > He was able to look up my situation and agreed both penalties were **outliers** and very harsh bans given the context and the fact I do not have a history of toxic/negative behavior. The punishments, as stated by the Rioters you spoke to, were outliers. Which means the system doesn't usually do this, and otherwise works just fine the vast majority of the time. It is not reasonable to ask that suspensions and bans _all_ be done manually. There are millions of players around the world, so the human resources necessary -just to review every decision made by the bot's initial assessment- would create such a huge bottle neck that toxic players would inevitably have enough time to ruin more games, and cost Riot potentially paying customers. It IS, however, reasonable to ask that all _permanent bans_ be vetted by a human being. A few years ago this was the case (everything else still went through the bot), though I do not know if they stopped doing this in favor of 100% automation since then. By doing this, extremely toxic players can still be knocked out with a temp ban while they get reviewed by a person, thus preventing them from ruining games in the meantime, and then a full ban can be levied during or after. A person who would have been permanently banned to begin with would still have no ground to stand on, but others would be filtered out. > 3. Bring back tribunal They wrote up a post about why the tribunal won't come back, but you'll have to search for that one yourself if you're curious. > 4. Provide an option for people to completely disable chat on their accounts, to avoid getting baited into human interaction within the game and to treat the players they're playing with as bots to avoid potential trigger words/symbols that trigger an unwarranted penalty. A lot of people would happily agree to this option, but I think Riot won't do it because this is still a team game that demands interaction between allies. Pings have evolved over the years, and they do a good job, but it's not meant to be a long term alternative to real coordination. In the long term, this lack of coordination could damage ladder integrity, but somebody on the team that handles matchmaking would have to chime in to confirm/deny that point. > TLDR; I received my first penalties ever in 6 years within 2019, the first being a 2 week suspension, the second being a perma ban. Both penalties confirmed to be too harsh. I do not enjoy unjustly losing access to my account for no good reasons. This is just a guess on my part but, I think the initial suspension was the source of the entire situation. Like a domino chain. It was an uncommon error on the bot's part, but I suspect that when the Riot support member lowered your punishment, the account remained flagged as having been 2 week banned (aka absolute last chance before perma). So when you got hit by the bot again, all it saw was that you had received your "final warning" in the form of a 2 week ban, and then moved directly to permanent, which it does regardless of the severity of your offense after a 2 week ban.
> [{quoted}](name=Audhulma,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2019-04-08T23:48:50.236+0000) > > (this is a long one, just bear with me.) > V > > The punishments, as stated by the Rioters you spoke to, were outliers. Which means the system doesn't usually do this, and otherwise works just fine the vast majority of the time. It is not reasonable to ask that suspensions and bans _all_ be done manually. There are millions of players around the world, so the human resources necessary -just to review every decision made by the bot's initial assessment- would create such a huge bottle neck that toxic players would inevitably have enough time to ruin more games, and cost Riot potentially paying customers. > > It IS, however, reasonable to ask that all _permanent bans_ be vetted by a human being. A few years ago this was the case (everything else still went through the bot), though I do not know if they stopped doing this in favor of 100% automation since then. By doing this, extremely toxic players can still be knocked out with a temp ban while they get reviewed by a person, thus preventing them from ruining games in the meantime, and then a full ban can be levied during or after. A person who would have been permanently banned to begin with would still have no ground to stand on, but others would be filtered out. > > They wrote up a post about why the tribunal won't come back, but you'll have to search for that one yourself if you're curious. > > A lot of people would happily agree to this option, but I think Riot won't do it because this is still a team game that demands interaction between allies. Pings have evolved over the years, and they do a good job, but it's not meant to be a long term alternative to real coordination. In the long term, this lack of coordination could damage ladder integrity, but somebody on the team that handles matchmaking would have to chime in to confirm/deny that point. > > This is just a guess on my part but, I think the initial suspension was the source of the entire situation. Like a domino chain. It was an uncommon error on the bot's part, but I suspect that when the Riot support member lowered your punishment, the account remained flagged as having been 2 week banned (aka absolute last chance before perma). So when you got hit by the bot again, all it saw was that you had received your "final warning" in the form of a 2 week ban, and then moved directly to permanent, which it does regardless of the severity of your offense after a 2 week ban. I appreciate this response a lot, as it reflects both sides of the coin. Any solution is a catch 22 honestly, and yes I do not doubt for the most part the system does an alright job and maybe this situation is an unfortunate domino effect. It’s hard to tell exactly. Nonetheless it was frustrating to experience, and if many more people had this same experience, I was hoping that the issue would become known and solved. If this really is just an exceptional outlier, than I suppose nothing needs to be done and I’ll swallow the pill as best I can.
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T23:03:50.379+0000) > > Please inform me how I “harassed my team all game.” Okay. > KTFresh: one gank would have swung mid for me Too late to do anything about it. Why complain? > KTFresh: i dont duo Was this unsolicited, or a response to something like "you're boosted"? Given the rest of the log, I doubt it was a reply to e.g. "you're cool! want to duo after this?". > KTFresh: all of ya shut up KTFresh: idc KTFresh: stfu KTFresh: u can waste time typing KTFresh: idc 👍 > KTFresh: muting all #IF ONLY > KTFresh: team player? KTFresh: youre flaming LOL What good does it do to inform them of this? Will it make them stop? I can tell you right now, it won't. > KTFresh: no KTFresh: i havent been KTFresh: real flame telling ppl to stop typing amirite Telling people to shut the fuck up and stop typing is flaming. > KTFresh: while u call everyone bad Like I said, they won't stop just because you told them to. In fact, responding is likely to encourage them, because it lets them know that their trolling attempt is working. > KTFresh: XD KTFresh: right KTFresh: im flaming As established above, you indeed are. And now you're arguing about it. > KTFresh: to what KTFresh: being told to stop typing KTFresh: imma just type And look where that got you. > KTFresh: have fun KTFresh: typing is prio You're still arguing, and being passive-aggressive and sarcastic. > [All]KTFresh: gg [All]KTFresh: report everyone but ez tbh [All]KTFresh: toxic Telling people that certain players were toxic and asking them to report those players is harassment. > KTFresh: yall so conerned about duos KTFresh: when yall duo [All]KTFresh: LOL Still arguing about it. And that is the end of the chat log you posted. So yes, you spent the entire time arguing with your team. > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T23:03:50.379+0000) > > You don’t see the time stamps... I don't need time stamps. The entire chat is flame and arguments. > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T23:03:50.379+0000) > > along with any harassment lol. Wrong. See above for specific instances. > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T23:03:50.379+0000) > > Apparently I’m just not allowed to respond. You are allowed to respond as long as you can do it civilly and constructively. You definitely can't do the former, and the latter is almost always infeasible. > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T23:03:50.379+0000) > > It honestly seems like you’re the type to say shut up and take it, Why do you say that? I've said several times that you should've actually muted everyone like you said you would. If you did that, you wouldn't have to "take" anything. > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T23:03:50.379+0000) > > this is part of the game, yet you’re saying people should be punished for minor stuff like this. Yes; flaming, harassment, and arguments are part of the game. So are random disconnects, DDOS attacks, and scripting. Riot has rules against poor behavior. If you don't like those rules, don't use their service. > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T23:03:50.379+0000) > > You have a lot of trust in the penalty system. The penalty system was justified in giving you a penalty, because your chat broke several rules. However, if the support rep for your first punishment led you to believe that a 14-day suspension was an incorrect punishment (which is different from reducing a correct punishment) and that they were reducing your punishment tier, you should continue to seek clarification and resolution on this. > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T23:03:50.379+0000) > > You work for Riot? Nope. > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T23:03:50.379+0000) > > You got some direct knowledge of how this stuff works? Where can I find this? The Summoner's Code, the Terms of Service, Riot's database of support articles, and numerous official communications from Riot (primarily on PB) provide lots of information. > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T23:03:50.379+0000) > > :^) Yes, I can see that insulting people who are trying to help you is the fun part. Recovering your account wasn't the goal of this thread, I guess. This is a waste of my time. Goodbye.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T23:34:03.834+0000) > > Okay. > > Too late to do anything about it. Why complain? > > Was this unsolicited, or a response to something like "you're boosted"? Given the rest of the log, I doubt it was a reply to e.g. "you're cool! want to duo after this?". > KTFresh: idc > KTFresh: stfu > KTFresh: u can waste time typing > KTFresh: idc > > 👍 > > #IF ONLY > KTFresh: youre flaming LOL > > What good does it do to inform them of this? Will it make them stop? I can tell you right now, it won't. > KTFresh: i havent been > KTFresh: real flame telling ppl to stop typing amirite > > Telling people to shut the fuck up and stop typing is flaming. > > Like I said, they won't stop just because you told them to. In fact, responding is likely to encourage them, because it lets them know that their trolling attempt is working. > KTFresh: right > KTFresh: im flaming > > As established above, you indeed are. And now you're arguing about it. > KTFresh: being told to stop typing > KTFresh: imma just type > > And look where that got you. > KTFresh: typing is prio > > You're still arguing, and being passive-aggressive and sarcastic. > [All]KTFresh: report everyone but ez tbh > [All]KTFresh: toxic > > Telling people that certain players were toxic and asking them to report those players is harassment. > KTFresh: when yall duo > [All]KTFresh: LOL > > Still arguing about it. And that is the end of the chat log you posted. So yes, you spent the entire time arguing with your team. > > I don't need time stamps. The entire chat is flame and arguments. > > Wrong. See above for specific instances. > > You are allowed to respond as long as you can do it civilly and constructively. You definitely can't do the former, and the latter is almost always infeasible. > > Why do you say that? I've said several times that you should've actually muted everyone like you said you would. If you did that, you wouldn't have to "take" anything. > > Yes; flaming, harassment, and arguments are part of the game. So are random disconnects, DDOS attacks, and scripting. Riot has rules against poor behavior. If you don't like those rules, don't use their service. > > The penalty system was justified in giving you a penalty, because your chat broke several rules. However, if the support rep for your first punishment led you to believe that a 14-day suspension was an incorrect punishment (which is different from reducing a correct punishment) and that they were reducing your punishment tier, you should continue to seek clarification and resolution on this. > > Nope. > > The Summoner's Code, the Terms of Service, Riot's database of support articles, and numerous official communications from Riot (primarily on PB) provide lots of information. > > Yes, I can see that insulting people who are trying to help you is the fun part. Recovering your account wasn't the goal of this thread, I guess. > > This is a waste of my time. Goodbye. Thanks for the breakdown! If only it was accurate. And I disagree with you. In reference to me attempting to “insult” you earlier, your baseline simply appears to be very sensitive, that’s all I meant by it. Have a nice day!
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2019-04-08T23:08:40.477+0000) > > I never incited violence nor used derogatory terms. I spoke with 3 Rioters about both penalties. All agreed both were over steps of the system. Again, I'm calling bullshit. If any Rioter thought that it was an unfair escalation, they would have reduced it manually. Customer Support isn't a bunch of Rioters either. You won't show logs of said chat or support ticket either because you don't have them. And I firmly believe you don't have them because they don't exist. As far as I'm concerned, you're just bullshitting the vote system, your case and the arguments for a punishment system that favors toxic behavior.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000e00000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T23:23:32.482+0000) > > Again, I'm calling bullshit. > > If any Rioter thought that it was an unfair escalation, they would have reduced it manually. Customer Support isn't a bunch of Rioters either. > > You won't show logs of said chat or support ticket either because you don't have them. And I firmly believe you don't have them because they don't exist. > > As far as I'm concerned, you're just bullshitting the vote system, your case and the arguments for a punishment system that favors toxic behavior. Ok! Have a nice day
: If your first punishment was a 2 week suspension, then you clearly crossed a zero tolerance line. The big ones are death threats, encouraging self harm, and hate speech (including blatantly racist/sexist/homophobic terms). There is no other way for that punishment to be your first. After the 14 day suspension, you're on thin ice to the point any punishable log, such as the one you linked, warrants a permanent ban. Thin Ice lasts for dozens of games. I'd say 100 of no toxicity and you won't be immediately punished for a mildly toxic log (just a guess, I don't know the exact system). So I'm 100% inclined to call bullshit on "my punishments were too harsh".
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-04-08T22:09:27.832+0000) > > If your first punishment was a 2 week suspension, then you clearly crossed a zero tolerance line. The big ones are death threats, encouraging self harm, and hate speech (including blatantly racist/sexist/homophobic terms). There is no other way for that punishment to be your first. > > After the 14 day suspension, you're on thin ice to the point any punishable log, such as the one you linked, warrants a permanent ban. Thin Ice lasts for dozens of games. I'd say 100 of no toxicity and you won't be immediately punished for a mildly toxic log (just a guess, I don't know the exact system). > > So I'm 100% inclined to call bullshit on "my punishments were too harsh". I never incited violence nor used derogatory terms. I spoke with 3 Rioters about both penalties. All agreed both were over steps of the system.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lawn Gnomes,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c0001,timestamp=2019-04-08T21:42:09.869+0000) > > Would a normal person permaban someone for "stfu" ? That is obviously not handled by a real functioning adult. Secondly how do you know she has a more indepth history of negative behavior??? or are you the literal type where you take 1 offence that happened pretty recently and say that is a history??? I was dumbfounded by the first two statements you have said. Then you gave me this next gem... There was no context that could justify telling your team to stfu and quit typing???? When they are flaming and nerd raging the entire game? That seems like a pretty clear context as to why she said to stop typing and stfu, then continued to get flamed and asked people to report them for being toxic. Then why even bring in racial slurs? Like what how is that relevant at all to this conversation?? there was none of that used? Seems like you are fishing there bud boi. > > Overall I think you just take the stage door left and forget you made this blunder. > > > EDIT** btw i actually spit out my tea reading your comments. The laughter was too much 0. OP didn't just say "stfu"; they spent the whole match harassing their team. 0. If the OP's punishment tier was at that level and the system reported this match as being flagged for punishment, a permaban would be appropriate. LoL's punishment system isn't designed to let toxic people ruin match after match as long as they're only moderately toxic. It's designed to remove people who consistently misbehave. The only thing that can skip punishment tiers is zero-tolerance phrases, which go straight to a 14-day suspension (a single "bad" and "noob" don't qualify for that, by the way, which might be why OP got the punishment reduced to a chat restriction). 0. As I said, there is a history, just not a very long one. 0. You do realize that PB is _chock full_ of banned sociopaths who cannot comprehend the simple fact that Riot doesn't care who started it, right? 0. Racial slurs can cause a player to skip punishment tiers. Seeing as how OP managed to skip a punishment tier, it seemed relevant. As I said, we don't have the logs for the first punishment, only the most recent one. It's possible that that first log was worse than OP is admitting, and the support rep may have simply been doing them a one-time favor by reducing the punishment itself but not the punishment tier. As I'm sure we're all aware, the punishment after a 14-day suspension is a permaban. If the support rep for that first punishment didn't reduce the punishment tier, this is the logical outcome. If the 14-day suspension was actually given in error, then the punishment tier should've been reduced, and if it wasn't, the support rep should've made that clear to the OP, which is why I suggested that they continue to work with support or try to figure it out here on Boards. Players with your attitude tend to accumulate punishments for poor in-game behavior. I'd recommend against encouraging it.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c00010000,timestamp=2019-04-08T22:10:58.882+0000) > > 0. OP didn't just say "stfu"; they spent the whole match harassing their team. > 0. If the OP's punishment tier was at that level and the system reported this match as being flagged for punishment, a permaban would be appropriate. LoL's punishment system isn't designed to let toxic people ruin match after match as long as they're only moderately toxic. It's designed to remove people who consistently misbehave. The only thing that can skip punishment tiers is zero-tolerance phrases, which go straight to a 14-day suspension (a single "bad" and "noob" don't qualify for that, by the way, which might be why OP got the punishment reduced to a chat restriction). > 0. As I said, there is a history, just not a very long one. > 0. You do realize that PB is _chock full_ of banned sociopaths who cannot comprehend the simple fact that Riot doesn't care who started it, right? > 0. Racial slurs can cause a player to skip punishment tiers. Seeing as how OP managed to skip a punishment tier, it seemed relevant. As I said, we don't have the logs for the first punishment, only the most recent one. It's possible that that first log was worse than OP is admitting, and the support rep may have simply been doing them a one-time favor by reducing the punishment itself but not the punishment tier. As I'm sure we're all aware, the punishment after a 14-day suspension is a permaban. If the support rep for that first punishment didn't reduce the punishment tier, this is the logical outcome. If the 14-day suspension was actually given in error, then the punishment tier should've been reduced, and if it wasn't, the support rep should've made that clear to the OP, which is why I suggested that they continue to work with support or try to figure it out here on Boards. > > Players with your attitude tend to accumulate punishments for poor in-game behavior. I'd recommend against encouraging it. Please inform me how I “harassed my team all game.” You don’t see the time stamps... along with any harassment lol. Apparently I’m just not allowed to respond. It honestly seems like you’re the type to say shut up and take it, this is part of the game, yet you’re saying people should be punished for minor stuff like this. You have a lot of trust in the penalty system. You work for Riot? You got some direct knowledge of how this stuff works? Where can I find this? :^)
: Permabans are handed out manually, not by a bot. Telling your teammates to "stfu" and calling for reports would merit a punishment. You weren't chatting in a "fairly appropriate manner" (maybe "muting all" should mean you will _actually mute all_ rather than just serving as another way to flame). It prompted a permaban because you'd had a 14-day suspension prior to that. However, since your first punishment was escalated to a 14-day suspension in error, that would mean that following up with a permaban would also be in error. It should be a 25-game chat restriction, not a permaban. You do have a history of negative behavior, just not a very large one. Punishments are handed out "without context" because there is absolutely no context that could justify telling your teammates or opponents to "stfu," or announcing that you're going to report people, or racial slurs, or any of the punishable behavior outlined in the Summoner's Code and Riot's support articles. I understand that someone else's negative behavior might be the _reason_ that a player begins to engage in negative behavior of their own, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do. 0. Taking away the chat feature entirely is a terrible idea. Most people are able to use chat in a neutral or positive manner. Some people use chat in a negative manner. A subset of the latter don't even understand the distinction between positive/neutral chat and negative chat, so they blame the system itself for their poor behavior and think this useful tool should be taken away from everyone. 0. Permabans are applied manually, not by an automated system. The automated system simply flags problematic behavior, and routes those cases to a support rep if that account is at the permaban punishment tier. 0. Tribunal had a backlog of months because there are too many cases for a manual system, and the IFS seems to work pretty darn well. It's not perfect, of course, but if someone disagrees with their punishment, they can submit a support ticket. 0. There is already a command to mute chat, emotes, and pings from all teammates, which eliminates situations where toxic chat would prompt a negative response. However, if a player is getting triggered by e.g. a teammate missing a skillshot, that player is actually a source of toxicity and thus doesn't even have an excuse for misusing chat.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-04-08T20:04:36.914+0000) > > Permabans are handed out manually, not by a bot. > > Telling your teammates to "stfu" and calling for reports would merit a punishment. You weren't chatting in a "fairly appropriate manner" (maybe "muting all" should mean you will _actually mute all_ rather than just serving as another way to flame). It prompted a permaban because you'd had a 14-day suspension prior to that. However, since your first punishment was escalated to a 14-day suspension in error, that would mean that following up with a permaban would also be in error. It should be a 25-game chat restriction, not a permaban. > > You do have a history of negative behavior, just not a very large one. > > Punishments are handed out "without context" because there is absolutely no context that could justify telling your teammates or opponents to "stfu," or announcing that you're going to report people, or racial slurs, or any of the punishable behavior outlined in the Summoner's Code and Riot's support articles. I understand that someone else's negative behavior might be the _reason_ that a player begins to engage in negative behavior of their own, but that doesn't make it the right thing to do. > > 0. Taking away the chat feature entirely is a terrible idea. Most people are able to use chat in a neutral or positive manner. Some people use chat in a negative manner. A subset of the latter don't even understand the distinction between positive/neutral chat and negative chat, so they blame the system itself for their poor behavior and think this useful tool should be taken away from everyone. > 0. Permabans are applied manually, not by an automated system. The automated system simply flags problematic behavior, and routes those cases to a support rep if that account is at the permaban punishment tier. > 0. Tribunal had a backlog of months because there are too many cases for a manual system, and the IFS seems to work pretty darn well. It's not perfect, of course, but if someone disagrees with their punishment, they can submit a support ticket. > 0. There is already a command to mute chat, emotes, and pings from all teammates, which eliminates situations where toxic chat would prompt a negative response. However, if a player is getting triggered by e.g. a teammate missing a skillshot, that player is actually a source of toxicity and thus doesn't even have an excuse for misusing chat. Really. You really think “stfu” is punishment worthy? Regardless what level. You think it is fair for my first punishment to be a 2 week sus for calling raging toxic teammates “bad” and “noob?” Your heart must be made of glass.
: So you're saying bots aren't human? OMG RACIST.
> [{quoted}](name=14daysuspensionk,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-04-08T19:22:00.987+0000) > > So you're saying bots aren't human? OMG RACIST. I apprecaite this lol
Kuponya (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-08T15:43:19.533+0000) > > A bot should not have the power to suspend/ ban accounts. The information as to how the bot works is not transparent to my knowledge. What I do know is that my first ever penalty in the 6 years I have played league was a 2 week suspension for calling the 4 teammates flaming me "bad," as they were flaming me within the first five minutes of the game and they all died in their lanes and blamed me (I was jungle). I appealed the penalty immediately, and got a response about a week later, and the penalty got reduced to a 10 game chat restriction and losing all my honor. > > My second penalty was received this past weekend. Three teammates were flaming each other and me, and I told them to "stfu and stop typing." I said nothing derogatory. I did not think much of the game, I said in all chat that the 3 teammates could use some reports for being toxic, and moved on to the next champion select. My account was perma banned. > > I was appalled. I had no intention of hurting anyone or ruining the game for anyone. I was frustrated that they were more focused on typing than trying to win, and I expressed that in a fairly appropriate manner. No name calling, no spamming of pings or chat, no inting, just telling them to shut up and focus. > > Once again, I immediately sent an appeal. This one with less willingness to be understanding and less patience. I also hopped onto twitter and messaged the Riot Games Support account, where I got to speak with "Tank." He was able to look up my situation and agreed both penalties were outliers and very harsh bans given the context and the fact I do not have a history of toxic/negative behavior. > > Has the penalty bot system been adjusted in 2019 to be more sensitive and intense? If so, is this to address some mega terrible chat problem? If chat really is that much of a problem, then just disable the feature entirely. At this point, I have no idea what constitutes earning a penalty, or what level of penalty. This last situation somehow earned me a perma ban, yet I never thought I was deserving of ANY level of consequence given the context of the game. There are so many worse things I could have said or done to retaliate, yet I told them to shut up and play, and that earned a perma. I was told that my messages appeared "provocative." I would like to have "provocative" defined within the game then. I feel like so much within any given interaction could be classified as "provocative," and it is not fair to allow a bot to have god power to decide what trigger words/symbols deserve a penalty without context. Especially so quickly. > > Allowing a bot to decide the fate of my account, so quickly and without thought, is unacceptable. These days I no longer have much time to play league anymore. Had this been an issue back when I played hours upon hours every day, losing access to my main account for periods of time may have not been an entirely huge issue in my eyes; just hop on a smurf account and play with friends! These days, the little time I get each month, I only desire to play on my main. The great majority of my in game communication is positive, encouraging, friendly, and game focused. It is hard not to say anything when teammates are allowing their characters to stand still or be in places they shouldn't because they are busy typing negative things. I suppose I need to speak to them like the children I work with in mental health; proper, elaborate, polite. Even though this is not an accurate representation of how their speech in chat and actions are affecting me. (Not to say it is not about losing control of my emotions and venting it out, it is simply me being truthful to myself and them as a value I hold.) The game is less enjoyable with a martyr mentality. I value standing up for myself and others, while maintaining a level head of course, yet the penalty system appears to not recognize neutral speech. I was informed it often looks for "passive negative." How?? What EXACTLY constitutes "passive negative"?? From what I gathered, just engaging in conversation with someone being toxic counts as "passive negative." That's insane. > > This is so long Jesus Christ. > > Riot I believe there are a few options/solutions here: > > 1. Disable chat across the board to avoid toxic communication within your game. > 2. Remove the power of suspensions/bans from the penalty bot, it is not fair for people to suffer overly harsh penalties or lose access of their accounts for periods of time before a human even looks at the situation. > 3. Bring back tribunal or create a team designated to WORK WITH a bot that has the ability to flag potential suspension/ban worthy behaviors. > 4. Provide an option for people to completely disable chat on their accounts, to avoid getting baited into human interaction within the game and to treat the players they're playing with as bots to avoid potential trigger words/symbols that trigger an unwarranted penalty. > > TLDR; I received my first penalties ever in 6 years within 2019, the first being a 2 week suspension, the second being a perma ban. Both penalties confirmed to be too harsh. I do not enjoy unjustly losing access to my account for no good reasons. > > Also, I really enjoyed being honor level 5 last season. What a descent into hell I have made. I am the epitome of toxic behavior according to this bot. > > Thanks, > Kylie "KTFresh" Bots issue more accurate punishments than humans. A bot does not discriminate or succumb to outside influence. Humans - especially customer service - generally are more forgiving. More forgiving does not mean more correct. A person would accept 3.14 as Pi, a machine would not.
> [{quoted}](name=Kuponya,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-04-08T19:44:04.941+0000) > > Bots issue more accurate punishments than humans. A bot does not discriminate or succumb to outside influence. Humans - especially customer service - generally are more forgiving. More forgiving does not mean more correct. > A person would accept 3.14 as Pi, a machine would not. I get what you're saying, but a bot is created by a human, and this bot may have errors in the system code right now and could use improvements if it is making critical errors.
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T17:43:55.123+0000) > > I know it is all about taking my word for it. I don't expect everyone's absolute trust. You don't know me, and that's fine. I'm not advocating for my trustworthiness here. > > I am grateful the penalties were reduced, but that's not the point here. I refuse to utilize chat from now on as a result of the bot over penalizing. I am not a toxic player. I am not actively trying to ruin the game experience for my teammates. So is it fair that I feel like I cannot use the chat safely without my account in unnecessary threat of suspension/ban? I do agree that you should not feel like you are unable to utilize the chat function at all, however on the same token you did state that you understood that you _should_ have been punished in the first place. That is a good sign and it means you can improve that by muting the toxic people only for example. You do not need to cut off all communication with everyone, just those people. If it helps at all, you could view those toxic people as a bad ex-relationship. Muting them becomes like stuffing that Ex's head into the toilet, and reporting them is like flushing. Then you just wash your hands and walk away. Dont need to say a thing to them.
> [{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T18:45:56.660+0000) > > I do agree that you should not feel like you are unable to utilize the chat function at all, however on the same token you did state that you understood that you _should_ have been punished in the first place. > > That is a good sign and it means you can improve that by muting the toxic people only for example. You do not need to cut off all communication with everyone, just those people. > > If it helps at all, you could view those toxic people as a bad ex-relationship. Muting them becomes like stuffing that Ex's head into the toilet, and reporting them is like flushing. Then you just wash your hands and walk away. Dont need to say a thing to them. The first situation is the only one minutely deserving of a consequence such as a chat consequence. Not a 2 week suspension as I already clarified. The second situation that earned a perma ban should not have earned any consequence whatsoever.
Stupafly (NA)
: If you think they are money hungry now... Do you know how many people they would need to hire? To manually review EVERY report of toxicity is not feasible. It's like asked ng YouTube to manually review ALL content before it gets uploaded... It's not a reasonable task.
> [{quoted}](name=Stupafly,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-04-08T18:38:26.476+0000) > > If you think they are money hungry now... Do you know how many people they would need to hire? > > To manually review EVERY report of toxicity is not feasible. It's like asked ng YouTube to manually review ALL content before it gets uploaded... It's not a reasonable task. They have to manually review every appeal though. So for every appeal there could instead be one less unjust ban. An unnecessary annoyance to be avoided for people undeserving of the ban as well. I assume angering their players is not a good way to make money either.
: > [{quoted}](name=KTFresh,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T17:08:10.072+0000) > > Correct, this chat log is the most recent penalty situation. I do not have the chat log for the first situation I mentioned on hand, but I can see if I can dig it up. I am assuming Riot views the game for full context no? I was not sitting in base typing. I simply mocked their inability to stop typing and play with that statement. > > The 2 week suspension was for me calling my teammates flaming me "bad" and "noob." When I sent the appeal for that first situation, I was much more understanding that my participation in chat may had been deserving of some consequence, just not a fresh 2 week suspension. > > The perma ban has to do with the chat log I provided. I did not doctor it. > > Both penalties were reduced to 10 game chat restriction. I was not under any suspension/restriction when I received the perma. The Rioter I spoke to in the first case agreed 2 week was too harsh. The Rioters I spoke to the last few days confirmed that and agreed the perma was also uncalled for and that both cases are outliers of how the system normally handles minor cases. So by "both restrictions", you are saying that you are not banned currently and I did not need to write out a fairly good way of talking to Riot Support that people honestly should refer to when they are talking to them? :o And... no offence, but just saying "this wasn't doctored" means nothing on the boards. To keep an objective view, it is best to have the hope that they are not altering things, but have the knowledge that people lie quite often. If the matter was already all resolved then there would be no need to dig up the additional chat logs unless you wanted them reviewed as well by other players. If it is not resolved then yeah, get it and post it along with the other to Riot Support.
> [{quoted}](name=Silly Neeko,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T17:32:07.665+0000) > > So by "both restrictions", you are saying that you are not banned currently and I did not need to write out a fairly good way of talking to Riot Support that people honestly should refer to when they are talking to them? :o > > And... no offence, but just saying "this wasn't doctored" means nothing on the boards. To keep an objective view, it is best to have the hope that they are not altering things, but have the knowledge that people lie quite often. > > If the matter was already all resolved then there would be no need to dig up the additional chat logs unless you wanted them reviewed as well by other players. If it is not resolved then yeah, get it and post it along with the other to Riot Support. I know it is all about taking my word for it. I don't expect everyone's absolute trust. You don't know me, and that's fine. I'm not advocating for my trustworthiness here. I am grateful the penalties were reduced, but that's not the point here. I refuse to utilize chat from now on as a result of the bot over penalizing. I am not a toxic player. I am not actively trying to ruin the game experience for my teammates. So is it fair that I feel like I cannot use the chat safely without my account in unnecessary threat of suspension/ban?
: They have to use bots to police a playerbase of this size. The influx of reports they get is too high for just humans to sort through.
> [{quoted}](name=Quality Content,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3Thzlgw2,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-04-08T17:35:16.867+0000) > > They have to use bots to police a playerbase of this size. The influx of reports they get is too high for just humans to sort through. For sure. They have to address every appeal personally though. So maybe it would be worth adjusting/improving the system to create less errors and fewer frustrations for people undeserving of such harsh penalties.
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KTFresh

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