AdjW (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AZbrGA5z,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-10-19T06:54:56.384+0000) > > When your bad luck magically breaks the law of larger numbers. Otherwise if your skills quite a bit above your mmr then the 20% of your teams players you occupied means you inherently are favored to win. > > Or … When your truly playing in games matchmaker correctly assigns you at your skill level and not improving any after games, at that point its all luck of the draw to win. > > Edit. Also I derped. One must remember that RL applies so if your ISP is trash or you have hella roommates/family that eats your ping bad luck might decide games as well. Since when did mmr reflect ones ability to control their temper or wether their computer is going to break down the second too many effecrs are on the screen? Again please read the post before you comment thanks.
I accounted for RL in my edit prior to your response, how ever as you may not have refreshed page till you got back I get if you missed that. That being said, Temper is not luck related. You know it and handle yours or you don't. Got a Short temper? stop when tilted. Even tempered? Hey your not trowing games being tilted in the first place! A Bad PC is not luck related. You know the specs, you know if hardware issues can be expected. For some PC related things fine I admit the first time is luck, after that you already know exist. And knowing a problem can cause you problems... not luck. and 1 in X games played is irrelevant because your arguing that it has to BEAT THE LAW OF LARGE NUMBERS! A Bad temper and PC wont be luck related worth crap vs that.
AdjW (OCE)
: At what point does someones bad luck become a gameplay issue?
When your bad luck magically breaks the law of larger numbers. Otherwise if your skills quite a bit above your mmr then the 20% of your teams players you occupied means you inherently are favored to win. Or … When your truly playing in games matchmaker correctly assigns you at your skill level and not improving any after games, at that point its all luck of the draw to win. Edit. Also I derped. One must remember that RL applies so if your ISP is trash or you have hella roommates/family that eats your ping bad luck might decide games as well.
: I don't want role selection removed. That system is by far the best. What i am saying is give an option to remove auto fill. Like an opt-in and out thing. If you dont mind waiting longer then opt out and wait to get your role. If que times are too long in your opinion opt into it. The amount of games i've lost when a player is put on role they dont know how to play is quite high. Couple that up with what i said earlier of people not being able to play every role let alone 2 effeciently and people that get auto filled cant reliably have someone fill for them and get their role.
I think the separation of rank by role may help next season. Role selection has generated a higher # of player that are only able to preform in their main roles that as you have stated do typically end up as a dam handicap for their teammates when they in off positions. We both seem to be in agreement how ever that role selections superior to the completely RNG of balance on a teams roles in pick order. Its like having phantomlord on your team back in the day and he couldent go Kathus. I can be critical of OTPs because if they don't get their Pick and they are not a solid player they cripple their team. Now im a player who looks at ELO via law of large numbers. I whole heartedly believe that If your solid,above your mmr and make impact your going to climb, always, its just a grind to remove RNG. In multiple seasons I have proved this to friends by smurfing and queing. At my best im mid-upper plat, I usually will hover in gold and plat. My view is simple, that's honestly just my level of skill no more no less. I end up where I deserve biased of my decisions. It took me being demoted from plat to gold trying to duo because I arrogantly assumed it was good enough to consistently carry friends when it was hella not the case. Back on topic, So Auto fill.... I want to see more talk about how to replace or improve it. Its been shown that bad que times kill a game mode. This makes me leery of opt in or opt outs. They don't solve that issue when its an issue. So personaly I really lean to having a 3rd role option the reason being that it would encourage players to learn 3 roles. Another option I support would be to have matchmaker list roles its looking to fill, if when at role selection you have a message that more players are needed for X position. I also would like it if riot gave more incentive for players to pick Fill and do well. If being a Fill main resulted in higher MMR or LP gains on wins, or more BE, Or some Snazzy icon or what ever it would get more players to do it, imo. If we as a community had a good chat and couldent find a good soluition or improvement, I think that conversation could generate enough interest to be brought forward to riot. If on the next dev blog 1 person makes a post to represent the community then we back it with some 2000+ upvotes in the first hour I happen to think it would get some attention. The constant inaccurate and ignorant tilt I see that makes me respond so jadedly however will never attract any attention. I really wish people would focus on solutions when posting instead of meltdowns over problems. That just me.
: you seem to only link the money and not giving a fuck. they dont give a fuuck cause they refuse to listen to long time players they have throught the years done little cash grabs to get money of peopel for example. in your missions its says "claim tokkens" meaning you got some tokkens right. no you gotta buy the worlds pass whovh is 1820 rp. its a suttle thing to get more money.
1. Free to play Does not mean free game. F2p is a business model, one riot popularized and I happen to really enjoy more then monthly subscriptions. 2. Riot is a for profit company. End of the day then need to generate a positive net gain of profits compared to their expenses. Or they go under, and we lose the game regardless of if they truly care or don't care about player base. I know this may sound crasy but it turns out that developing and maintaining the game cost $ even when that game is free to be played by anyone. 3. Events have been a way for riot to generate revenue, they exist to up player population and also make the company $. Its a part of the model and if you call that a "cash grab" I assume you must also hate happy hour. If the cost is optional then each player can decide if it is or is not worth their $. If the value for the product is considered low then riot does not make a profit. If the value is considered worthwhile then how is it a greedy cash grab? You need to account for the consumer when discussing something that is their call to purchase. Look expect riot to do things to increase their revenue from time to time because they ALWAYS HAVE and understand its an inherent part of the model they use for f2p. Now again can you clear up this for me. If they are greedy why would it make them stupid to the point they would risk their income? As a company why would they want to priorities short term gains over long term profits? Can you show any actual logic behind this or are you just posting because emotions and conjecture?
: Akali doesn’t need buffs. However, she equally doesn’t need nerfs. OP’s post is misleading and hyperbolic, which is no grounds for a good discussion. Your comment also fallaciously assumes that there is only two options in this discussion: buff something, or nerf something. That’s not how discussions work. They aren’t always black and white.
{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: half of this list has some kind of mobility bro
Note that this player is trying to addresses "Insane mobility" Aatrox's dashs vs old kit? Weaker. Eve R cd compared to the 70% 3 Ghost cd? Weaker. Urgot Gained mobility but I don't think any one calling his E "insane" mobility should be treated seriously. Shen had a dash. Gp had on demand MS steroids. This post was directly about addressing the op's claims that champions gain insane and unhealthy increases in their mobility over every rework.
: Every downvote here suggest Akali needs a buff
Not mine. I just disliked the OP being very inaccurate in his description of abilitys and other exaggerations so that's what earned my dv.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MUggYFVv,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-10-18T08:45:20.469+0000) > > Auto fill is superior to Pick order pretty much anyway I look at it. Oh dear some one got filled to support. 4/5 teammates playing pref roles vs fuck my life I got 4 mid or feed teammates on my team. I have played every single role in the game and get diamond every season playing any role. Im not saying im a good player im stating facts and if you want links to op.gg just ask. The main problem is a majority of the player base in solo que actually cannot play more than 2 roles efficiently. Honestly it feels like 1. Im definitely not saying pick order is better. Im saying keep the same system and remove auto fill for anything lower than diamond because it is not necessary. It ruins games more than it helps them. And in my personal opinion id wait 10 minutes for a game in diamond instead of 2 if it meant that every player is on role.
Politely being able to make diamond consistently with multiple roles does make you a good player. There is a trade off on fill to game time. I loved teambuilder but that que snowballed down hill and died when que times got to high. I fully support looking at improvements or a better system. I support riot if they want to try things like giving folks a fill pref as a 3rd option, changing the algorithm for how long it takes till it looks to fill, etc. End of the day thou auto fill exists to fix a problem that came from role selection and personally role selection is something I find vastly superior to pick order. I get frustrated when I see comments like "OMG AUTO FILL WORST THING EVER" When for years the alternative was worse. I really wish folks would take more time to admit when something exists for a reason and rather then just complain or flame the devs, put forward an actual solution. Would Que times get to high if its removed? I don't know, but I do know that I don't think I have ever seen some one make a thread that's "I think its worthwhile to disable autofill and see if que times are still good."
AndrijaMC (EUNE)
: Akali.. Just why?
Oriana Q level 3. 120 damage with 0.5 ap scaling on a cd of 4.5 seconds at 825 range from ori. Level 3 Q Akali 75 base damage. 0.65 ad scaling 0.5 ap. on a 1.5 cd. Energy cost is 90 and range is 500.
: Because There Are A Bunch Of Dumb Ass Mother Fuckers That Roam The League Of Legends And It Takes Away Solo Skill And Turns It Into Only Team Skill And Even That Has Been Diminished Because 4 People Could Work Good But One Stupid Ass Guy Could Ruin It So What You're Saying Is Retarded As Fuck
If 1 player ruins game in a meta and its not you... hey your gonna win more then you lose via law of large #s. Bad player is in a game. 10 slots. you take up 20% of your teams slots. RNG advantage? Your team 100% of the time by virtue that your on it. If this is not reflected in your matches. I have bad news for you.
: > [{quoted}](name=Wilyum,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MUggYFVv,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-17T21:17:49.172+0000) > > That isn't true if a soccer player keeps scoring in his own goal he can solo lose that game real quick when there are no subs and every own goal counts. > In this game if my ADC continually feeds the enemy Kai Sa there is not much to be done Honestly its not even a problem of people inting or trolling anymore. Those kind of games happen no matter what but not as often as people think. The real problem is the fact that more often than not you get players that lose lane or are outmatched so bad that it makes it close to impossible for players that are actually around their current skill level and not hard smurfing to win the game from such a deficit.
So uh.. smurfs are a negative impact on matcahes because as players their individual skills enabling them to crush a lane which then... magicaly makes their team win because your handycapped by your worst player? Yet your personal impact as a player is moot because your skill counts for nothing if you crush your lane? Ah I see your talking not about smurfs but rather that some one has been assigned a MMR that's accurately reflective of their mmr. So your saying that when you play at your actual level of skill your teammates and enemy team decide game? You know how MMR works? Turns out that its not inherently accurate. it makes assumptions then fixes them over time. If your at your skill your being placed with the assumption you break even.... and hey looks like the games then largly gonna be decided by team or enemy. Gee... real shame that things like improving as a player would have 0 impact on your ability to climb... oh wait....
: Auto fill is honestly the worst idea that has come to this game.
Auto fill is superior to Pick order pretty much anyway I look at it. Oh dear some one got filled to support. 4/5 teammates playing pref roles vs fuck my life I got 4 mid or feed teammates on my team.
: RIOT GIVES 0 FUCKS ABOUT US
So They only care about money, which is generated from the player base. Thus they … don't give a fuck about the playerbase…. despite it being how they make a good deal of money? I feel like there's just a bit of a flaw in logic here. If riots money hungry why would they not cater to the folks who provide it? If all they care about is $$$ why would they not focus on extending the games life as long as possible and maintaining the highest possible player populations? I just don't get exactly how being greedy would magicaly make them stupid as fuck when it comes to long term gains. Given that the games been going on for 10 or so years now netting them $$$$ every year... I don't think the company policy is all about thinking in the short term. Is this not common sense and logical? Help me understand where my viewpoint is flawed here if you disagree.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=McBv5HEV,comment-id=00030000000000000001,timestamp=2018-10-13T19:40:05.062+0000) > > Being extremely sharp is bad. The edge of a blade becomes more frail. If you have ever worked with really nice chef knifes and garbage cutting boards you learn its better to have a less sharp blade. How hard your material is tends to dictate the angle of the edge your going to want. > > The mind set that sharp is better, its flawed. You want a good edge related for the materials your using in relation to how you want the tool to work. > > > Frequently Bigger swords are more dull, they would lose an edge to fast and require excessive workto maintain the blades edge. > > Entire arguments a bit moot as its pretty clear its not just the sword + standard earth physics being used to knock up opponents, the particle filled animations and exploding ground should be the first giveaway that there's more afoot then just a blade. What more would be afoot other than the sword cutting into the ground? Why doesnt anyone else's sword do that? Seemed as it was forced and rushed. Forced to use old Aatrox as a framework for something that doesn't fit him. When deciding design, most would be thinking a hammer or staff of sometype of AD magician sort of how Illoai uses tentacles not a sword. A dull sword is still sharper than a blunt object. Swords do not cause hardly any vibrations on surfaces bc they penetrate what they strike, if it doesn't than the vibrations goes back to its holder. Since you seem to know swords, you know that. You must be friends with Riot people bc it seems you are going out of your way to make no sense to defend the indefensible.
The fun thing about magic is it can do what ever the hell people want. A champion could have a tooth pick Add some magic and BOOM knock ups.Its not complicated, magic does not apply to earth physics.Logic does not transfer over completely for gameplay perspectives{{champion:136}} Detonates a Star and it does less damage then {{champion:55}} throwing some knifes. People smashing the ground with a large weapon is a very common in fantasy themed games. Many of them have Bastard/great sword skills that shatter the earth. This is done to convey a feeling of raw power. It is not done to be a realistic combat move. End of the day, No one gets flipped into the air 10 feet because some one else hit the ground, regardless of its its a blunt or sharp weapon. So again. Not realistic, not meant to be realistic, its just magic and fantasy dog. I don't know how to make this more clear or simple for you.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=McBv5HEV,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-10-13T19:03:14.343+0000) > > Read Berserk. It may change your mind. If you oppose that swords are sharp then.,.. you should definitely alter or add to your reading list. Somethings are worth arguing, others are not. Swords are sharp, period.
Being extremely sharp is bad. The edge of a blade becomes more frail. If you have ever worked with really nice chef knifes and garbage cutting boards you learn its better to have a less sharp blade. How hard your material is tends to dictate the angle of the edge your going to want. The mind set that sharp is better, its flawed. You want a good edge related for the materials your using in relation to how you want the tool to work. Frequently Bigger swords are more dull, they would lose an edge to fast and require excessive workto maintain the blades edge. Entire arguments a bit moot as its pretty clear its not just the sword + standard earth physics being used to knock up opponents, the particle filled animations and exploding ground should be the first giveaway that there's more afoot then just a blade.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=McBv5HEV,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-13T19:13:35.630+0000) > > Well, they are war hammer esc when your using mordschlag to be fair, i have no clue what you are talking about
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordhau_(weaponry) Folks used grips on the blade for a variety of attacks. Mordschlag is a 2 hands on the blade technique that uses the hilt and pummel of a sword for blunt force. Like a hammer or mace.
: > [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=McBv5HEV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-13T18:11:21.783+0000) > > Actually, many sword experts still debate how sharp a sword should be for combat, as a perfectly sharp sword cuts cleanly, which heals better, and a slightly dulled sword grips better, which can give some control when the swords bite into each other. > > Either way, a sword doesnt stay sharp for long in combat, so its a moot point. Answering a question not asked... But swords surely aren't hammers :)
Well, they are war hammer esc when your using mordschlag.
Lapis (OCE)
: Is jungle farming early game trolling?
No. It is on some champions whos kits are very rewarding for early ganks. Not every jungler how ever does that and you cant make impact early in every game. Some times its nessesary to grind to your power spike. Communicate, let teammates know they need to play safe cuz your aiming for an EXP spike {{champion:19}} Or an item spike {{champion:24}} {{champion:11}} . If your lanes are winning you can make some extra $ hitting them... but if they are losing you might stand to get 0 gain from a gank when your not a solid early impact jungler and your laner is in a awfull matchup. Your job is to do what ever is needed to win. Some times that job is to farm fucking exp and gold.
: You forgot Taric making entire teams invincible to turrets Also forgot Tryndamere Also forgot Master Yi Also forgot Kled Also forgot Xayah
Oh theres plenty more examples I could use. {{champion:203}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:30}} or Literally any champion with abilitys over 775 range can be on the list. I was not trying to make a complete list, merely wanted to showcase how in the game we have many champions with interactions with towers at a lower threat then other champions Is a common feature in the game, and that the argument "Akali is TOWER IMMUNE WTF RITO!" Is utter bull. Hell Old Poppy was Tower immune And 80% team immune, she could 1v5 some one under a tower and snag 2-3 kills doing it. There is some room to balance her, there IS counterplay to her. Players need to focus on what actually is the issues they experience and provide information that's accurate to the game state instead of making exaggerated on paper best cases or cherry picking clips when shes playing well/already reached a state she is power spiked. This is not exclusive to Akali, its honestly something I want to see for any champion folks QQ about.
: > [{quoted}](name=Master2139,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=z8IE09yP,comment-id=002e0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-09T20:56:45.456+0000) > > As a shaco otp I do agree with you completely, he can use his q and his ult as defensive tool, it takes some skill to use just like akali's defensive tools but um... it's weird you bring up shaco because he is a really complained about champion and a large part of the community hates him for a lot of the same reasons they hate akali. I mean, not really *picking* on him with that. I'm just providing examples. Ekko's R makes him invulnerable and ports him away, for another example. Lissandra can stall for like 5+ seconds just putting and re-putting herself in stasis. Different champs do different bullshit. I just picked Shaco since you can easily relate to Shaco. > Your not, i don't expect you too but you only bring up the positives in her kit and don't address the issue which make people hate her. I think the reason you don't understand the hate for the champion is because you choose to not have an open minds about the discussions. Every time i bring up a point about why people hate her you back off and get defensive as if i'm saying the champion is poorly designed which she isn't. I get that you deal with a lot of the same bullshit responses that nit pick your points but at the same time i don't think you're truly here for discussion your just trying to get attention by being on the other side of the discussion on akali. There's a difference between people that ARE discussing, like you, and people that nit pick, toss one liners, have no idea what they're talking about, or come in here to complain about not being able to downvote me. Thus, the discussion between me and you, and maybe a few others, are different from my general responses to many other people here. I set up the thread to be VERY EASY to play into for people responding (thanks for playing along), and I'm still getting "but there's no counter-play" posts. Trying to keep my lid on straight while responding to posts like those, which there's a shit ton of, is not easy. As for not stating her strengths with her weaknesses, *this is a big thread as is.* To boot, I usually respond to most people that post in threads like these when I make them. I'd be able to devil's advocate myself a bit if I didn't have to fill in the blanks every time someone says "Akali has a micro-stun. How do I deal with a .5 second stun? Assassins don't even have hard cc!" when a ton of assassins actually have hard cc. > Lastly there is a general direction for assassin's, it's called assassinating someone. Past that it can be anything they want with whatever mechanic. Aight. I respect that.
As ever the problem seems to be that theres to much mindless hate exaggerated for no good reason. Instead of a productive discussion. For example we could try talking about how frustrating W is for higher ping players and folks who just mechanicaly don't have the reflexes to point and click (not everboy uses smart cast for some reason. FFS GUYS N GALS TRUST ME HERE AND USE SMART CAST OR SMART W INDICATORS!!!!) A ability on her during the reveal. So rather then OMG NO COUNTER PLAY WTF FUCK RITO FK CT KILLING THE GAME! being repeated over and over, Or OMG TOWER IMMUNE, which is Provably untrue, We could be looking at how much of a Fade duration nerf is needed to make her still have good moments when diving players and still see a lot of folks have windows to outplay her for takeing that risk. but no, instead we see exaggerations on all sides and often times arguments that are not reflective of a game state.
: I just frankly don't like them getting rid of True stealth because it was too strong of a mechanic and then decide to give Akali true stealth. Wasn't that the reason why they got rid of Twitch/Rengar/Evelynn/Kha'zix stealths to just add camouflage, because the mechanic was too strong for what it does.
I think Tethering true stealth to a broadcasted location is a much more balanced mechanic then the prior iterations that had as much mobility as its duration.
: I just wish Akali's W didnt make her untargetable from towers. i mean riot literally reworked every stealth ability in game to work in 1 of 2 ways, and then rework akali just throws all those new rules out the window. Or at the very least, if Akali is stunned in her W she stays visible while stunned. One of these 2 minor changes would make Akali a ton less tilting to play against
Honestly, I think All riot truly needs to do to address the issues most players have with her is have the Fade duration Start a bit higher and scale down with points into W. Folks with delay and bad reflexes really struggle with a quick re-stealth. That being said god dam I'm sick and tiered of folks saying shes "Tower immune" she breaks stealth, gets tower aggro? she gets hit. Also like... So many champions have the ability to evade, mitigate or outright ignore towers? "but kai akali does it special!" so the hell what? Quck break down of stuff in the game. 1. Invul Frames = no damage from towers. {{champion:10}} {{champion:8}} 2. Range > Tower? = no damage. {{champion:115}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:101}} 3. Mobility + positioning = no damage or less damage.{{champion:238}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:7}} 4. Shroud = Less damage. {{champion:84}} 5. Steroids for Defensive stats = less damage {{champion:12}}
: Elo Hell - Please help!
The following is just my personal opinion. I do not recommend duoing bot lane unless you have a very good cheese strat or if what your running that is not meta. If your just doing meta picks, you put all your eggs in 1 basket and bot has the minimum impact on every other lane. If your mid does not roam or prevent roam, if your junglers subpar, if tops not running Tele, you get low or no help. Meanwhile the enemy may roam, Tp, Or their jungler may camp your asses. If you get behind, the benefit you gain from communication and synergy is meaningless. On paper, duo bot can win 1 lane. A mix of Mid, jungle, Bot can win 2-3 lanes with higher OBJ control. Duo to win lanes and games. Not to just have a decent support/adc.
: whats your name ill i need help stat {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}}
: Champions You'd Like to See Reworked in 2019
{{champion:53}} Has needed a complete rework from season 1 onwards. the Q eats to much of his power budget and creates some of the most annoying feast or famine moments in the game. As a support player I feel that you need hard counter him with your pick or you run the possibility of a loss off 1 lucky Q regardless of the players personal skill or what he has contributed during the match.
: why the fuck is akali allowed to ignore turrets as early as level 2?
"no repercussions? What... you mean tower damage is not a repercussion? Look don't be like every other idiot claiming she is tower immune. Its provably untrue. What you need to start with is an argument that she is behaving to safe. Discuss fade time, discuss duration. Don't freak out and use caps locks to convey information that is clearly an exaggeration. There is counter play don't frame it other wise. What needs to be addressed is if the counter play is adequate enough for a majority of players.
: Why are we okay with riot deprioritizing community concerns
Things to keep in mind. 1) Riot balanceing is not even weekly, its bi weekly, and many time they are content to let things run for 1-2 months to collect data. They do not think in a short term or low # count. Players seem to see things in a period of 10+ games and want instant results even befor standard patch dates. (see RITO HOT FIX X WTF! Threads) 2) Riot does make a habit to balance outliers in any MMR, Things have been nerfed and buffed to account for being to weak or strong in various MMRs. 3) The community is not unified, we argue over everything with everybody. Also a majority of posts are just fucking wrong. Take a look at any thread of HERES HOW I WOULD BALANCE THIS GAME! Worlds is not just a source of revenue, its also the best time to showcase what the very best players can do with this game. Some stability is required for it to work well so the reasonable expectation you should set is that its gonna be pretty mild patches. Also on the topic of setting expectations, you should assume that preseason and mid season bring Massive changes to gameplay. By all means you don't have to like what I have said but good luck proving me to be wrong.
: How to not suck at league :( ive been playing for a good 5 months and i still suck
Add me, I will be out of town for a few days but When I get home I am happy to try to help. Some rule of thumb advice. Learn your playstyle, what is it you play well and enjoy. Then start developing a champion pool for that playstyle. Always strive to learn mechanics, check your post game stats every game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=177UU6Va,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-09-29T21:44:01.945+0000) > > dudes at almost 70% win rate over 20 last games, in diamond. Im not sold he is ruining games or hindering his teams balance. Ok did you read what I said since it would solve the last two things you said but if I worded it poorly then thats my bad so explain it in a different way now if he has gotten a lot of reports from people even with his high winrate that should show people just dont like having it on there teams aka ruinng them for those players, now what I mean by team balance is the job of a role like a carrys job is to mostly do damage now the reason we have the meta we have now is because its the one that would win over the others so if you pick somones whos is not a jg into the jg it will do bad vs somone with the same skill but playing a real jg so playing a off meta will hurt your team making them have a higher chance of losing. Now there are 2 factors that go into him having a good winrate the biggest is that since people never see champions played like that they cant adjust to it or play around it so they lose, two most people that play off meta in high elo are good at the game or know how matchs up work and how to play into them thats how he has a high winrate but the biggest thing is I dont know how having a high winrate is proof that he is not griefing since griefing is making players on your team have a bad game on purpose. Now if you still dont understand pls tell me in more detail what you dont get or just give me a explanation of why am wrong.
Sorry for the very delayed response. I read what you have said in both posts. I encourage you to take a moment in the future to make longer posts a bit more readable. Here is the problem as I see it, the way players consider the game defined soley by the meta is stupid.[ First meta gaming](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming) is about using outside knowledge of a game to influence your in game behavior to win more. If you know that 85% of people throw rock for their first hand in a game of RCP and that only 9% will throw scissors for their first hand, well then you open with Paper. Note that the goal here is to anticipate what the majority will do and play to counter that. The meta in league? Its used to define what the majority of players do. They copy and paste strategy's as the rotate into and out of viability and spotlight, regardless of if their individual skill is adequate to succeed in doing so. The way you described the situation, I have some issues. 1) Picked a non JG to JG. Inherently if it cant properly JG even with off meta build items runes, its not a viable off meta pick. The op is talking about how he uses provable working off meta builds to accomplish wins, at a very high level of play, he has positive results in doing so. 2) Same skill = Meta is better. Not really? Like that's an arbitrary marker and your also loading it around the premise that the Meta pick is the superior one and being played at a level of excellence to the point the off meta player is unable to compete even off their best case. Its a loaded example. I can do a loaded example for when Off meta is superior. we have 2 bronze 5 same skill junglers. One is playing the most mechanically intensive pro picked jg. The other is playing very simple very forgiving champion who is not "in the meta" and does not see pro play. Who would you bet on knowing they are equally low skill, and both will be unable to achieve the best case usage? Look The meta shifts all the time, champions will come into popularity out of nowhere with a new build that's strong, A strong meta pick can start as a strong off meta pick. Far as the community describes "meta" its really just "Popularity + viability in higher elo" This Again, is stupid because not everybody can play something at a high level. The time required for a lower skill player to get good with something may be longer then that champion even exists as a meta pick. OR the requirements of coordination to make it strong {{champion:13}} just don't exist at their level of play. I hate the attitude theres 1 meta for the game, with no consideration that what's a viable pick changes over the various MMRS. 3) Reports generated with out merit, lack merit. I have been reported for losing lane to a player better then me, For not using a skin some one wanted, for having a bad game, for not using a build from a moba fire guide, for not giving a jungle buff that I still needed to a lane that's died 5 times, for saying GL HF, for having my Name Be Kai Guy when Kai's Sa was released ("report this cringe weeby Kaisa fanboy" Note this was my name long before her release as it was my grandpas nickname for me prior to his passing and it has been for the entirety of my life. ) A trash report is trash. Getting reported with out merit is rubbish. Behaviors of Trolling and grieving are shown by the results of multiple games. You can see a pattern in a players history and/or chat logs that shows greifing and trolling behavior. 4) Some random stuff I am confused by and/or take issue with. > " how things are since it works to by playing it and by not doing it increases the chances of your team losing" Ok so increasing the odds of a loss is bad. The flaw you make is this assumption that By playing something that works for others it should work for you. Once more, not everybody can drive a stick. So why is it not pretty clear that hey playing something popular that your garbage with is a bad move? > "there are 2 factors that go into him having a good winrate the biggest is that since people never see champions played like that they cant adjust to it or play around it so they lose, two most people that play off meta in high elo are good at the game or know how matchs up work and how to play into them thats how he has a high winrate but the biggest thing is I dont know how having a high winrate is proof that he is not griefing since griefing" First im gonna remark on the irony of you saying that as a high elo player the OP can do off meta because as high level player he has a good understanding of the games mechanics and how champions interact, that he is inherently good at the game. Then you don't extend that to literally the players he is beating, at that same MMR. Consistently doing this off meta build works, it gets him year after year to the upper tiers of the game. That alone should show that hey its a workable build, regardless of its popularity. Being popular does not make it more or less viable. Next up, using something players don't see played, cant react to, cant beat? Which is proven to generate the guy his wins, Up to some of the top tiers of player skill? GEE GOLY GOSH THAT SOUNDS LIKE METAGAMEING! If a player has issues with a pick that works, they are a shitty teammate. If you have issues with players playing things they are dam good at because you demand they can only play what you think is good, your an asshole who does not understand team games. Honestly if picking something upsets some one so much they tilt over it, fuck that player. The # of variables that go into a game of league are huge to the point its difficult to predict an outcome until it starts being played. Off meta builds can become meta because HEY its superior to what the previous meta build was. The only proof lies in viability and Viability is shown by wins and stats not popularity. Did the pro teams that ran AP MF support grief their teammates or their fans? Did the first time c9 rocked {{champion:143}} {{champion:22}} bot troll the game? Was faker Trolling his teammates when he was here destroying NA with {{champion:92}} mid ? Blue build lizard EZ? AP Sion? (<- fuck this meta btw. least fun I have ever had in the game.) Tank Ekko? "Adc" Ziggs? "Adc" Swain? Ivern jungle w support items? Season 1 when people decided to run ADC bot instead of solo mid? All are examples of "Non meta" that became Meta for a time.
: As evelynn your main goal is to just hit and run. Just make the enemy squishy explode before you yourself do that. If we translate the W max then 35% mr shred sounds a lot right? But it accounts for only around -9 mr shred on squishies (and that is if im being generous with my maths here) whereas 80 extra dmg would be far more beneficial against squishier targets. Sure, you get a higher range (but why does it matter so much when you only have a 1.5s window to make them explode?) and higher dmg against monsters (not very relevant at level 13 since you already have your jng item at that point). The only good quality of W max 2nd in this meta is that the duration of slow & charm lasts longer. So 80 extra dmg >>> all the cc and mr shred in this meta. If it was some tank meta then W 2nd max would be more beneficial.
I politely disagree. I did show the late game comparison of the ability's but hey your right lets look at the build up. Each point of E. 15 points damage Per level up reg casts or 20 empowered. Mp costs up but its pretty negligible on eve. Each point of W. 1 second CD. 0.25 CC duration. 50 damage to monsters or 2.5% shred to champions. Mp costs up but again its pretty negligible. The decider is the CD and Duration. A level 3 W is 1.5 seconds of CC, I personally value this more then 40 damage to champions and monsters. The comparison you need to make is this. Could Me or a teammate put up 80 damage to a CCed target over the increased duration of 1 second? Is that 1 more auto for me? Is that 1 auto for them? 1 more ability landing before the enemy can use their SS or abilitys? 80 damage in a second is very easy to achieve in leauge. The flaw in logic I see is your saying on paper hey this is eves playstyle hit and run up front damage is ideal. Im saying the utility is far more valuable to eves playstyle and her teammates then the 80. Most the time you land E, its off W. Some times you can flank and walk into range to cast, but as eve ideally your going to want to be getting the W off to CC. Its almost always a core part of her gameplay. Eve can use W in more situations then E. More versatility more range. A longer duration makes the slow useful. That 80 will only matter if 80 or less hp damage was a deciding factor. The W duration will only matter when 1 second is a deciding factor. For me, 80 in a second is a low number when you factor in teammates. Its a low number if you factor in auto attacks. If you build {{item:3057}} or {{item:3100}} 1 second is not enough to have some one CCed to land 2 empowered hits but 2 seconds is. When I abandon the flat comparison on paper views and consider is .5 worth more then 40 and is 1 second worth more then 80 damage I absolutely feel it is in a majority of the games, how much damage is that increased duration going to net my team? it only gets stronger as eve gets items, teammates get items, enemys get items. CC scales with champions power better then 80 damage. The duration difference alone is enough for me to value W max more. Then there's the range, cd, shred, and Damage to monsters on top of that. Don't max E 2nd. The damage gained and/or prevented from CC is significant.
: That's not what is making her good though and she loses a charm if it doesnt charge fully, she just gets a garbage slow. Nevermind the high cooldown and rather low disable since she maxes it last.
Stupid to max charm last. Duration grows shred grows. E maxed is a garbage move imo. 15 damage gain per level from base scaling. So your trading off 4 seconds CD, Double Duration of Charm/slow (slows 65%, not a garbage slow at all btw) 10% mr shred, 200 damage to monsters, 400 unit cast range increase on W For a flat 60 damage on E.
: Until the R does negligible damage compared to an AP build. You're playing a "mage" mid, but lack any of the good properties of being a mage mid. You don't have waveclear. The base on his Q isn't nearly enough so you ARE going to get shoved under tower letting your lane opponent roam for free and snowball off side lanes. Your R doesn't do enough damage without AP. It's like 400 damage at level 16 after base resists. That is so small and just gets smaller once the AD buys Merc Treads or a Scimitar or whatever. Then again, they probably don't have to since you aren't a magic damage threat. You are a mild inconvenience. A gnat and WILL still die in a matter of seconds since you have zero defensive steroids. Your survival time is probably only 1.5 to 2 seconds longer than AP Scaling Karthus who has RoA+Seraphs. The difference is the latter one actually does damage and IS a threat when he is dead since he WILL kill you in 3 Qs and his ult WILL do close to half your health bar as opposed to maybe 1/4.
Lets take a look here. Karthus Q. 1 second CD. AP scaling. .3 for multi .6 for solo target hits. W. No damage scaling. E. .2 ap. R. .75 ap. So Base damage. Q. 50 / 70 / 90 / 110 / 130 Doubled for single target. E. 30 / 50 / 70 / 90 / 110 R. 250 / 400 / 550 Lets look at 2 seconds of extra duriblity. That is to say if Karth Tank build gets only 2 seconds then AP karth. Damage for Q on paper is an extra 260 worst case, Or an extra 520 best. Damage from E? Its an extra 220. How much base AP does karth need to get 220 damage out of his E to counter the damage gained a simple 2 seconds of life? Lets see... at a rate of 0,2 1100 AP. That's the break even point... and note... Tank karth does not NEED the ap. he uses EXP to translate into levels which bumps his base damage per second up. Oh right... and we also would need to subtract the AP the OP's build uses so... 1100 ap + AP gained from tanky items to break even for 2 seconds. His R being weaker? So fucking what? We talking about the ability he cant cast under pressure cuz its a 3 second channel time. That's on a CD of 200 / 180 / 160. We looking at a .75 Ap scaling. He can still Eliminate low HP champions with its base damage, 250 is enough to kill. Bad wave clear? dude puts out aoe 240 damage per second base levels. Do you see how this works yet? 2 seconds IS statistically significant and the Up time is way more powerful per second gained from durability. 2 is notable. 4 is over 2k ap. 6 seconds of lifes worth over 3k Ap. With just a few 2 second intervals even if we account for his R the damage he loses to the rest of his kit going to outweigh that .75 scaling. "but what if he misses Qs" Well then we assume the same for the model of an AP build and we end up with a champion doing the same wiffed damage, who dies faster. in other words a karth missing Qs with an AP build IS weaker then a tanky build missing Qs. This is just on paper. How ever I do hope it has been made clear that it only takes a few extra seconds on the champion to up his DPS to levels that AP builds cant match.
: RIOT FIX THIS (Zhonya's Hourglass and Stopwatch)
Yes, the 600 gold 1 time combat trick of extra 2.5 seconds is indeed a problem.... once, per game, assuming you never use your first stop watch.
Rismosch (EUW)
: I fail to see how Tank Karthus is supposed to work. If you don't do damage or have CC (which Karthus doesn't really have), you're useless as a tank. Unless you still buy damage and are more of a semi-tank, in which case you aren't technically playing "Tank"-Karthus.
He has high base on Q with a low CD. He has Aoe that rewards being into the middle of a fight, Can CC and shred resistance. Its like a sunfire on steroids... and even if you kill him the fact that the build rewards being balls deep on enemy team results In his passive giving him several seconds of extra damage pre greyscreen. Also the Entire time he still has minor global pressure cuz R on some one who dies to it... dies to it.
: Logging in just to upvote.
: > [{quoted}](name=boricCentaur1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=177UU6Va,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-09-29T21:37:07.199+0000) > > The sad thing is this is not off meta its just griefing like its the actual definition of it too since all your doing is ruining peoples games since what you are doin is hindering the balance of your team like there are reasons for how things are since it works to by playing it and by not doing it increases the chances of your team losing and a lot of people dont want to play with somone thats off meta so your making it worst for them and thats griefing. the only thing ''meta'' is are champions deemed strong and popular by LCS and high elo streamers, do you remember annie support? yeha she used to be considered hot garbage, if you picked annie support people would flame you non stop, then the next day it got played in a tournament and guess what? she became meta and 100% pick/ban, so she went from ''get this garbage champ outta here'' to ''OMG PICK OR BAN ANNIE'' in the span of 1 day with 0 buffs and nerfs, the meta didn't cause annie to be stronger it's just that it REVEALED how strong she is, there are plenty of champions like so the meta doesn't mean it's everything, all it means is ''these are the champions of which we know they're strong because they'red used in LCS and high elo streamers''
I loved Velkoz support and I only stoped getting Flamed and reported for doing it on any non win... when a fucking Korean team ran it in worlds.
: How often does off-meta get reported? - Results from my last 90 days
: The sad thing is this is not off meta its just griefing like its the actual definition of it too since all your doing is ruining peoples games since what you are doin is hindering the balance of your team like there are reasons for how things are since it works to by playing it and by not doing it increases the chances of your team losing and a lot of people dont want to play with somone thats off meta so your making it worst for them and thats griefing.
dudes at almost 70% win rate over 20 last games, in diamond. Im not sold he is ruining games or hindering his teams balance.
: Wow, it's great to see actual evidence that people can troll and int all they want as long as they don't use the chat. Good thread.
Op is 50%+ playing off meta in one of the higher elos. How exactly is winning games trolling or inting? Guys at 68% win rate last 20 games. Dude was in Masters when you was still silver. Off meta is just off meta, nothing is inherently wrong with it long as you win more then you lose.
: The LB is 1/2, with no defensive items and barely an AP at all. Her most damaging item there was the goddamned corrupting potion. Can't see the Akali's items, because you so "accidentally" forgot to list them, but I'm assuming it's a {{item:3145}} and part of {{item:3144}}. That's a lot more damage than a {{item:1052}}, {{item:3802}}, and a {{item:1082}} with zero stacks. Clip also won't even play for me (legit, get something better than Twitch clips for this shit please, so that we can actually analyze it), but I'm going to assume from what I can see that the LB didn't land shit except maybe her Q, and didn't dodge shit properly. This isn't Akali being broken or anything, this is the LB playing like a drunken fish. And, of course, Akali being too strong is a **numerical** issue, not a **design** issue. LB legit just has to land her fucking E and she'll know right where Akali is. It's easy to do, honestly: wait for her to pop up, then just fucking press E at her. Either Akali loses her all-in potential by using E to dodge it (which would require great reflexes anyways), or you've basically gotten a free fucking kill.
I can see the clip. here is the break down. It starts with akali coming out of Shroud to land a Q max range, and pop electrocute on LB. LB was already at lower hp and falls down to 414 hp. LB Loses passive, LB has 2 stacks of {{item:2033}} and uses them. LB is currently on CD for E R and passive. E+R being on cd at start of clip. Lb backs off gets some hp back. Uses W for a minion, throws a lone Q at Akali with no follow up, gets some minion aggro and reactivates W. Akali waits out CDs. Akali uses E backwards to get into range to R on LB. Then casts W soon as shes out of animation to drop tower aggro. LB has regenerated up to 752 HP. LB uses W to dodge the Akali and is now safely outside of shroud and near her tier 2 tower. LB casts E, LB appears to be confused as she casts it at her W image rather then the Akali player and completely wiffs it. LB current CD. ER and W is waiting to be recasts, LB move up to shroud and moves slightly into jungle pathing, walking towards the shroud and away from her tier 2 tower, positioning near jungle rather then her t2 tower that would actually protect her. Next Akali lands a max range Q. 152 damage. After being hit by that LB pops her W to return To the dead center of the shroud AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Note LB passive, W, E, R are all on CD. Akali has 2nd cast of R, ignite, Passive triggered, and Q in a few seconds when it comes off CD. Tower hits Akali once, LB casts her Q. Akali uses empowered auto then 2nd cast of her R. 158 damage from the auto, 240 from the 2nd cast of R, 89 from Electrocute. Tower gets 1 more hit in. LB Flashes... At jungle rather then tier 2. The akali who was retreating sees this and rushes LB. her Passive + akali shroud is a straight line to her given the direction LB flashed. Lb trys to flee, gets close to WCD, but owing to the MS boost akali gets from shroud and passive she gets ignited. LB then trys to turn and burn the Akali with a QW, dies befor W lands. Akali walks away with 378 hp. In the jungle because that's where the LB ran. TLDR. Akali has near max hp almost the entire clip. Lb gets 3 casts of Q off, in the30 second clip, She gets 0 secondary triggers. NO R, no passive, misses all damage from W, Wiffs E, positions badly around shroud the entire time. Basically the Tower almost solos Akali and LB played the entire clip poorly. OP calls the Akali a feeder. 0-2-2 The enemy LB 1-2-1 same KDA. There is less then 5 cs gap between the two. Akalis team vs LB team? 14 vs 4 At no point did LB impress me, or did I feel a high # of other champions would have been unable to net a kill despite there being a tower up. {{champion:238}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:101}} {{champion:103}} for example all would murder her if she misplayed around their key ability's the same way she misplayed this akali. Most of them would take less tower damage doing it too. Folks are welcome to call me biased but I'm just not impressed by a LB who only lands half damage Qs and repositions INTO danger with their W. Edit. The Akali build was {{item:3145}} {{item:1082}} (1 stack prior to kill) {{item:1054}} {{item:1036}} {{item:1001}} {{item:2033}}
: Low IQ post. I was simply asking if this myth was actually true or not, based on my experiences it feels like it is.
Its just some simple questions id like answered. I feel like the answers are self evident but I don't believe in a 50% forced win rate. Possibly its just my Low IQ preventing comprehension. By all means please enlighten me here. If you Believe in forced 50% to be true its reasonable to assume that you can tell me the answers? What does riot gain from rigged MMR? If its rigged why do skilled players consistently rise up and awfull players fall? The starting points not in bronze for any new account. If the MMR is meaningless because Matchmaker rigs games what does it use to measure player skill to rig games? If its advanced enough to accurately gauge player skill off stats why would it make broken games not balanced ones? How many matches do you think are needed for a modified Team Elo system to become functional and semi accurate on any 1 player?
: Perhaps by placing a much lower MMR player in an elo they don't belong in. Like when you find a Gold 4 player in your Platinum games.
I have Questions. If you forcefully make higher MMR players fall into lower MMR by stacking games vs them Then the system should treat those players as low MMr and randomly throw them into higher MMR games assuming they would Throw the game, despite it actually being near their skill of play yes? Far as i can see the only result of this system is your skill is a lower factor and MMR is meaningless as its inaccurate at measuring a players skill when the systems actively giving them wins or losses. Next few Questions. If you think its independently tracking more stats then wins and losses, to the point it gets a good predictive model of any single players trends it can bet on them behaving as it expects, why exactly would the system mismatch folks instead of build balanced games? If its so good that it can tell players accurately to rig teams, at which point it has more then enough complexity to build balanced games, something riot should want as closer games are more fun. (1 troll being happy is a net loss if the other 9 players are disappointed with a match) If its a simple system that's to basic or stupid that it does not actively track a player skill and habits separate from their MMR. How Accurate do you actually expect an ELO system to function with a low sample size of ranked games. Lets say a streak of 9 losses is huge if we take 10 games, its a drop in the pond once we hit 500. What # of games exactly do you think a Team ELO system should start to function accurately at? Why do people make this thread over and over? What do players actually think a forced win rate would accomplish? Just how in the hell does that benefit riot or the game or players or shareholders? Why don't we talk about some actual issues related to matchmaker?
Lapis (OCE)
: Who's the best enchanter to climb right now?
{{champion:267}} probally has the highest impact if your good with her. {{champion:37}} is a champion in a similar role who has slightly less mechanical requirements from you if the nami Q and R are problematic for you to land, or your ooming W, or you feel your E casts are getting underused (all things that can be fixed on the nami player end, regardless of enemy or teamamtes.) {{champion:117}} is a fantastic pick pretty much always if your good at her. {{champion:201}} Does not get enough respect or love as a support imo so I wanna take a moment to talk him up as a good pick for impacting matches. Id avoid {{champion:16}} as a bad adc is going to EAT your hp pool then bitch that your low or not healing them every single moment they don't have max hp. {{champion:40}} is gonna be a bit of a hassle low elo as bad adcs gonna cancle autos and waste the shield, and I don't think shes got the #s currently to really bully folks outta lane. Disengages like a boss still, one of the best in the game, just don't think that's enough in a uncoordinated and chaotic mmr. Honestly thou if your aim is good you can also just cheese {{champion:53}} and {{champion:25}} to win lane and games.
: those kind of posts about rigged matchmaking are idiotics to say the least and show the level of intellect of the guy writing them i get pissed just by reading at this shit, not only you have to be plain stupid to think something like that, you have to be stupid and arrogant at the same time, one of the worst combination ever look at that: >my teammates are baddie single cell cretins and I'm in elo hell surrounded by an ocean of trash teammates, and riot is the one who did this to me. flash news einstein, you're SUPPOSED to be put on a 50% winrate precondition, i.e. teams with equal MMR to ensure fairness for everybody during the match if you can't manage to force your winrate under this circunstance and complain about rigged matchmaking you're basically ASKING FOR the very thing you're complaining about, to be put with better teammates and worst enemy team why in the hell would riot matchmaking prevent you to climb, and if it were the case, how can people climb?? or are you so delusional they target you in particular?
I have no idea how you found this thread to necro it but im kinda impressed. Yes the argument that riot forces 50% is stupid and untrue. Any logical though about what it requires shows it to be unnecessary and unrealistic. Despite that, I still got a good 3 to 1 downvote ratio for making the claim that forced 50% is the same BS as Elo Hell. Yet Folks wonder why I say the worst part of this game is the community.
: There's absolutly no reason to play Ziggs over any other artillery mage
What other Artillery mages can go bot and enjoy viability?
: A Incredibly Balanced Corki Mini-Rework (Level 7 Corki)
Caught this one in time. yo random boards users, don't respond assuming OP is 100% serious. Look at the dudes post history. Decide from there if its worth your time to engage in conversation.
Muxxik (NA)
: An idea to help make league more balanced
Tldr, Op does not understand how to play teamgames and should stick to solo experiences.
: guess ill just uninstall
Or just bump your win % up, fix your MMR, enjoy LP gains. That's an option.
GreyfellD (EUW)
: I'd like to see ONE rework or new champion that isn't...
{{champion:14}} now is nothing compared to old AP sion builds. {{champion:28}} Now is nothing compared to season 1. {{champion:38}} {{champion:421}} pretty high up time of ignoring walls. {{champion:38}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:4}} all are old. All have mobility. {{champion:84}} is not "immune" to turrets unless shes does literally nothing. good tilt thread that's ignoring how the game was.
: Trying to get people for the All Ziggs or Sona mission Onslaught
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Kai Guy

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