: Custom games dont give exp, BE, missions, they are effectively worthless u less you wanna 1v1 someone or have a large group of froends and cant wueue together due to the 5 player limit.
Your correct. One of the things I feel Riot is underusing. Yet Fun is not necessarily tied to Exp, Be, Missions. Modifying the system could add in some EXP to the games very easy. Theres not much for players to really gain besides game knowledge or creating some silly games like Find the teemo. Used to be the only place for Aram. It defiantly needs improvement from the devs for it to become a positive, but with out a conversation on it why would they ever bother? I like looking for solutions to problems. There's potential in custom games, I challenge you to think of a few things that would make it more attractive. I want to ask ya, If you have the power to do anything to it can you think of a change you could make to improve it?
Rioter Comments
: I'm starting to believe that the gameplay section of the boards is ignored
If your looking to talk or interact with a red your going to want to hang out in [Dev Corner](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner) We used to have some Reds who interacted frequently with the old forums and every now and then we see some pop in and chat here. End of the day thou its mostly a Player to Player interaction for gameplay.
: How THE F*** does the match making work?
"Roughly the same skill" As far as the matchmaking systems knows or cares about. It looks on paper for your MMR score then uses that to build a match. A assigned MMR is not inherently accurate to your actual skill. The starting point of a Elo/MMR system is that we do not know what the actual skill of a player is. So it records data and builds its expectation on your skill off the results of that. Riots last official statement on there MM systems accuracy was it takes about 150-300 games for MM to have a good grasp on your assigned skill to actual skill. A Few important take away you need to have. 1. Last season you would have needed to play 100 to 250 additional ranked games to hit that expectation. Your data size is inadequate for your Assigned MMR to be accurate or even remove the RNG of teammates. 2. Skill is a variable because humans are inconsistent. If your playing a new champion your skill might be lower then your main. If your playing on a off day, might be lower then your average. If your playing vs a champion you hard counter and crush, your going to do better then expected. Aram, Is a for fun game mode that's inherently imbalanced. The name All random should be pretty clear that your going to be dealing with a high amount of RNG impacting your games. If you have further questions about how MMR and Elo systems work let me know. Just don't expect them to magically know your skill and have applied the correct starting value to your account. Its built around being self correcting and using large numbers.
: > [{quoted}](name=saltran,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7tYXEpdA,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-10T20:51:44.628+0000) > > Increase their hair lenght Braum’s mustache now scales with max health
I want Dravens to scale with everytime some one complains about his early game.
: Soraka was earlier season. I lost several tiers from "duo'ing" with the wrong crowd. "Don't duo with friends unless their good" is an understatement. Morgana is a pocket pick as I can play her on a subconcious level. Naut is my Alistar w/ a hook champ that I have had great success with when I play norms on with or without comes. Is there a hidden MMR for norms over ranked? Could those be different? I've gone the "tank" route lately for supports. Braum isn't really my cup of tea. I love Alistar, and secondly love Nautilus who is the current flavor of the past month. Appreciate the comment.
I was mostly looking at last season for the Raka. I love Braum how ever I myself am not great at his playstyle. I am to aggressive. Ali is fantastic when played well. Does suffer in some matchups. On his team or on the other. I don't think anything is wrong with Natu but I feel thresh is more viable in a higher # of situations. The utility of his lantern is so freaking good.
: MISSED ITEMS
DFG. Leviathans and Sword of the occult. I miss being able to Triple snowball hybrid champions with 3 stacking items. {{item:3041}} is still a Favorite of mine.
saltran (EUW)
: Increase their hair lenght
You caught me off guard with this response. Well done. Suppose we can Add muscle mass and Abs. Inb4 Swol {{champion:9}}
: [Question] What other ways can a champion be buffed, without touching their damage output?
Depends on if you mean Damage output per second, damage output over a team fight /trade, or damage output over a game.
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: lmao just get a good duo
Your not wrong but I would encourage you to take the time to help players get good. Edit I derped. read duo as dude. My bad.
: as a support main i highly disagree with this. i also disagree with losing less lp/gaining more lp based on grade of game also disagree with losing less lp for dcs/afks over the course of a season with hundreds of rank games played ( lets be real we are all addicts other wise league would of failed a long time ago) those games where you have an afk/dc or have a bad team mate balances out on average for everyone. everyone deals with this. no one is special and immune to it. so we are all on shaky but even ground. and those 10-15% of games that we all deal with this BS dont stop you from being diamond if you are silver or gold if you are iron/bronze it might have an effect on "fringe" players who need just a lil bit of good luck to go from silver 1- mid gold but in all honesty as much as you will all disagree and hate the mmr/lp/elo/match making we are all in ranks/elos we deserve. if i was good enough to be diamond i would be. im not. im ok with it. i believe the rank system is here to provide a even/fair game to play so we feel challenged and have a reward to work towards. i dont want to play vs Plat + and those in high elos dont want to play with or against gold and below so you win and gain LP as a team and you lose and lose lp as a team
I think part of the problem is that far to many people do not understand that in Elo MMR the starting value for an account is going to represent roughtly the 50 percentile marker. In Leauge this is in silver. People take silver to be bad when its actualy representing a majority of the average level of skill for the game. (next bits is direct to the forums as a whole not you specifically Mr sunshine.) Honestly to hide the fact that about half the ranked ladder is going to only ever lose MMR is the reason riot hid it behind the league system. This is not even conjecture on my end but something the devs said. "Using MMR as the sole mark of achievement in League punishes half of the player base as their MMR will decline over the course of the season, which sucks because most of them are gradually getting better at the game" [Riot Gortok](https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2018/02/dev-matchmaking-real-talk/)
: Support Mains should have LP Shield during losses by bad teammates
Then to balance it out, we would have to reduce LP gains when you win for a bad enemy. From Personal experience I can assure you its entirely possible to climb in both Bronze and silver. The Trick is to pick what's needed for your personal skill and also will synergize with teammates/Opponents at the average skill of your MMR. In other words you should avoid {{champion:16}} (yes I looked over your account and stats.29% win rate over 31 games no doubt had a very negative impact on your Position in the ladder last season.) Approach champions by what they are good at and what they want to avoid. Apply the Context of what players around you are doing right or wrong. Lower on the Ladder players will take a lot of damage that should be avoided, your heal will cost you your HP. They wont nessesarly give you time to regenerate hp back from hitting your Q. They know raka can heal them so they go in assuming that your going to top their hp off after a trade. Its unlikely consideration for how much of your HP this costs is going to be a factor. I would also avoid {{champion:111}} . If your able to land his Q and follow up. You could just be playing some one like {{champion:53}} whos Q has the highest displacement in the game for a hook and can catch folks out. Alternatively {{champion:412}} Can save lives with Lantern to compensate for a teammate with bad positioning. (thou like I said early look to whats around you. If a majority of players are not using lantern thresh becomes a weaker champion if people don't interact with his kit.) Now I have played {{champion:1}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:143}} in the support role. They can do it, but a lack of mobility on all of them means you run a high risk of death if a mid, jungler get feed and roam. You also need to play them well and consistently land a majority of your ability's. Only you or some one spectating you constantly will have a good idea of what your skill on a champion is. I will say that if your win rates under 50% after 20 games then you should change your opinion of your skill on that champion. Because that's not good enough to climb. You don't have to say "im garbage at X" Just "I cant Climb with X" The champion might work better in different MMRs. (not all champions are equal. See how Azir and Ryze got gutted for pro play despite being near the very bottom of win rates in bronze.) Its also possible to overvalue yourself and the champion might work better if you could play them better or gained better micro/macro. If you feel you improved on that champion a lot, that most your losses are just from earlier games or some luck. Play another 20 games and keep track of the wins and losses. Still under 50%? Still disagree? fine do it again. Still under? Still disagree? ok... you can keep playing it but your 60 matches in and have not made any progress up the ladder. the lower your win % is.... then your actualy dropping. So your still not able to win despite the fact we can expect the players in your game on the other team to be worse, and your not making enough impact for your team to win with weaker teammates. You can climb with pretty much anything or any one long as you do it well enough. In a MMR system (hidden MMR score is what controls your LP gains and Losses per game) You cant Flood it with free Points. Overwatch has a skill factor in their MMR calculations. How ever even with that end of the day a loss is going to lose your MMR even if your Mvp with really bad teammates your going down still on a loss. Same for win, how ever you gain less points if your not doing better. I have my Biases for champions in the role, {{champion:201}} does not get enough love Imo but ultimately you need to figure out the ones that work for you... My play style is not really good for {{champion:201}} for example.
Neosphoros (EUNE)
: Is this forum is empty of people, full only with chat-bots?
Place holder comment. I will edit this in the next few days. I am In the middle of my work week and juggling some life stuff. Just want you to know Neos that I have not given up on our conversation yet and intend to do my very best to help you understand Elo/MMR better. Might be 1-2 days until I have time to finish up.
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uXpwaZI0,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-12-09T23:38:27.055+0000) > > The best player in a game is RIGGED TO WIN JAMAREE, you have to understand the odds literally grossly favor the best player in a match. Because the Worst player in a match will be on the other team 20% of the time. So not only is the best player the best they got more games where the worst guy is on the other side. ITS A RIGGED SYSTEM THAT FAVORS THE BESTIST PLAYERS! Ok, so if this was true though, wouldn't that mean that they should go up anyway BECAUSE they are the best player? > Honestly most folks just don't understand Elo and MMR systems. Riot was smart to hide it behind Leauge tiers because end of the day about half of the games players are going to only ever climb down the ladder, and that's not just bad players. Folks who are average and near average will get hit by this as well. The average player will hit their average though?
Pfffff This is why your just a Amateur, Jamaree how can you not see that Its clearly rigged. The system borth works exactly as intended AND as expected How can it do two things at once, explain that????(one more ? for extra saracasim should do it, but I say go big or go home) ???? Like DUDE Are you blind, cant you see that Bad players consistently go down ranked ladder. That Average ones hover near the MMR representing a majority of the Player base. Its bullshit that only very good players who riots system unfairly favors for skill can climb to the top of a competitive ladder! Im just saying that if riots system did not have such Blatant favoritism for skill then every player would have opportunity's to climb father up ranked ladder. Its just Ritos Bs Rigged Matchmaker holding... well not me exactly as I understand mmr and elo systems... But other folks back! So unfair! Remove this broken matchmaker and just build games from the entire pool of online players completely randomly so that EVERBODY has the same odds of being on a winning team with out something that's a BS Luck only SYSTEM that's COMPLEATE coin flip like personal skill. Edit. If your so smart Explain to me how its fair that the BEST player has the BEST odds to have the WORST player on the other team in 100 % of games?
usul1202 (NA)
: But that wouldn't give you a viable champ.... You'd literally just be gutting 2 birds with 1 stone.
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=AssassinsOnly,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uXpwaZI0,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-09T22:53:05.650+0000) > The current state of the game is like: > You won lane? you have good K/D? you got towers, dragons? hahaha your ally just fucked up gg noob DEMOTED Can someone please explain this to me right now, because I can't for the life of me understand the logic. So when you do well and can't carry, there is a problem. HOWEVER, if that was the case, why would this NOT extend to the opponent as well? Shouldn't they be able to carry if they did well, or not be able to, what exactly are people asking for here because this concept NEVER made sense to me.
The best player in a game is RIGGED TO WIN JAMAREE, you have to understand the odds literally grossly favor the best player in a match. Because the Worst player in a match will be on the other team 20% of the time. So not only is the best player the best they got more games where the worst guy is on the other side. ITS A RIGGED SYSTEM THAT FAVORS THE BESTIST PLAYERS! Honestly most folks just don't understand Elo and MMR systems. Riot was smart to hide it behind Leauge tiers because end of the day about half of the games players are going to only ever climb down the ladder, and that's not just bad players. Folks who are average and near average will get hit by this as well. Starting point for a new account ends up being near the 50 Percentile from top on a ranked lader using Elo or MMR. Of course the point of a competitive ladder is to see how far you skill gets you … so I think end of the day a lot of players would be happier if they just stuck to normal. I'm going to get downvoted for this.
: \> Baron reduces resistances. It's been attacking Rush's team for several seconds at that point \> People just used their abilities to just take down Yasuo \> No one has their ults, except for Irelia, who throws it into Windwall
Don't you love when players give a clip to say somethings broken and the footage clearly shows misplays and mistakes?
: surprising to see a new mechanically simple champion every once in a while
Honestly her passives about the most complex part of her kit. Using it for fakes, using it for W fakes. Using it to hide R. Her Q? some mechanical growth in how one would use it in lane for harassment and also wave clear. But its pretty easy to understand oh it does damage best to a CCd enemy champion. I should cast it on people I see CCed. W? Passive and some Jukes are the mechanics for it. But most folks can easly go. OH NOE I NEED TO RUN AWAY. use W for ms. E. Amping it off Minions for max snare... but it works just fine if you cast it only on 1 target you want to CC for E. R... Can I get into range? Is something in my range? Better hit R. I don't want to make her out as a complete braindead champion with no room to grow or have mechanical superiority to other players. Just point out overall The floor on her is low as its very intuitive to use most of her ability's to a positive effect with out much practice or need to master difficult mechanics. Simple champions can be a frustration or annoying for player. {{champion:86}} {{champion:17}} been getting some hate recently. Personaly my most hated champion is are {{champion:53}} because all he has to do is land a Q regardless of his build on the right target to potentally win a game. The thing I have hated most in the game was the old AP sion.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: So neeko has 80% ban rate
Pretty simple. Her math and kit are simple. Despite the OMG TRICKSTER CHAMPION!!!11!! The mechanical requirements for her are nothing that hard to grasp. Hell shes listed as an Easy champ on her difficulty.
Kenneky (EUW)
: If I get "Your cut", then who gets the gold from the kill?
This happens when you cast R and a enemy champion dies in the X before the 0.75 delay in damage hits. Its vaugly explained in its tool tip but the way it works is it will reset if anything dies in there. "If an enemy champion dies in the X, the last assisting ally is granted full kill gold, and Pyke gains the ability to recast within 20 seconds at no cost." Note that it does not say it has to be what kills a champion, just that they have to die. Pyke gets considered as the last assisting champion when it trys to determine who gets the Cut gold. Its been an interaction on him from day 1. I don't know if they fixed it yet but it does not Track the gold as Gold Given back when he was released. So if you went 0-0-4 (using the R). You would see it as 0 gold from the ability despite it providing him 4 stacks of your cut. Hope that helps.
Ifneth (NA)
: How Should I Snowball-Build as an AP Midlaner?
: What do you mean by that? Giving you the warning or other players?
BarrymP (NA)
: i have had enough of the direction of this game and the people playing it.
1. Goodbye and have fun. There are a lot of good games out there so I hope you find something fun. 2. Im a bit disappointed that you chose to take the time and effort to get multiple accounts banned. As Bans are a direct response for toxic behavior. I hope how you went around this did not harm the random folks on your team.
: grey screen? is this a thing in LOL?
When some one is dead The screen goes Grey, Death is the strongest CC because it disables folks for the entirety of their respawn timer. Also Who the hell downvoted me and AR Urf.
Neosphoros (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=000100000001000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-06T23:02:17.498+0000) > @human bots > That's not really proof of anything because honoring some one is not exactly difficult? You need to show a Bot that communicates at a human level and reacts at a human level in game. You want to say Leauge has bots that could pass the Turing test and also play at higher levels of skill? Ok... I doubt it, your gonna need to show some real proof here for that. And... honestly. At that point they are just as valid as any random human teammate so complaining about bots in your game is pointless. So... what the (custom) "beginner or semi-prof" bots really are? If they are bots or if they are humans? Teoreticly bots (they may play) in "normal" could be the same bots as they were tested 2 years ago as a "advanced" bots... where they are now? Touring test have nothing to do with LOL bots. Most people that I'm playing with, are writing in chat only things like: hello, cya, gg, hf... what kind of artificial intelligence is needed to behave in this way - NON. > Your post expressed concern that they might stack teams by putting in bots to rig results but again.. why bother? The end result of doing this is pointless. In a MMR system You can change the distribution of your entire playerbase with soft resets and changing the starting point value for new accounts. ...even to have possibility to controll the game in the easies way. > Also if they do have AI so advanced it can behave as a human in chat to pass the Turing test that's a real accomplishment that would make headlines and insane amounts of fame. They would stand to make massive $ from this, why not go public?Most the time a bot does well its not because its smarter then a human, its because it cheats. Scripting enables faster then most humans reflexes. So you have gave already good answer. My "AI" it was only a name for mechanizm that may controll bots in LOL. I could say... that even you may be a one of those AIs. In many places of your comments you are using of knowledge (if this is a true) that is hidden from players, so it may suggest many possibilities: - you are trying to manipulate the conversation - you are the one of RIOT "representatives" - you are chat-bot who using his own build-in information etc. > So again. Where is your Logic, YOU have to prove theres a reason for this, a good reason to do something so convoluted and complex. A reason they would not share their successes in developing an advanced AI. In MMR your going to see about 50% of the players be above and the other 50% be below what ever starting point you pick as a dev. You also get to set the bar for divisions, you can make 1200 represent silver or you could make 4,000 represent silver. The numbers are arbitrary, the principle of how it works is what you need to understand. > When in doubt you should side with what is most realistic. > ...in the same reason that the DOTA2 already have advanced AI. > > @ Rylas… again. > Brooooo. THE SLOWDOWN IS WORKING! when you see the animation it means the debuff is applied. The games mechanics are that slows don't stack, the most effective one takes priority. The animation IS a visual que to alert players the debuff is applied, its relevant because Visual ques + game knowlage provide player with an expectation for duration. Not all slows are the same duration. in a teamfight not all players can track every ability. Getting Tagged with multiple forms of CC, then hiding the animation for the ones that are not actively disabling you, throws off a players ability to accurately gage how much longer the duration is. the CC duration would hide behind other ability's. BROOOO! When you see a moving car... you thinking - this car is moving! When you see a car that standing... you thinking - this car is standing. When you see a Rylais that "slowdown" (animation) is working... you thinking - "slowdown" is working! When you see a Rylais that "slowdown" (animation) is not working... you thinking... why? what? How the Rylais slowdown in this case can not work if animation working always even "slowdown" is not working????? You trying to convince me that car which standing... is moving. It is becouse fuzy logic exist does not mean that everyone understand it. Most of players are 10-20yo kids. > > For gameplay reasons the animations need to be clear and consistent. Removing the animation despite the debuff being applied is messy. Its not just the guy using the {{item:3116}} and the person getting hit by it. The Visual animation is providing information to the other 8 players in the game. What kind of information? If Rylais "slowdown" could work - it could give information that it is working. If Rylais "slowdown" not working - what kind of information it will give them? > If the visuals become Randomized by abilitys then the visual is not setting a proper expectation for players to judge duration off. You would add a burden of knowlage to literally every single ability that's a slow. Because multiple abilitys can land on 1 target, and many ability can applies Rylias, with no animation on application you can not as easily accurately judge its remaining duration. Just only the way how the items are described should give information how it is working or not. > > Look im sorry you don't like how slows function but removeing the animation creates far more problem then it solves. The visuals need to convey information in a consistent manner. Banshees has the orb around you for that exact reason, the buff is up. Rlyas makes you blue because the debuff is up. The ability is applied regardless of if it has an effect. I do not mind how "slowdowns" functioning. I do -mind, that there is no logic in visual effect connected to Rylais slowdown. > > its literally that simple. Hit by ability? your debuffed. Various buffs and debuffs need a clear animation to alert players so they can make informed plays. If your visuals are not consistent then players pay for that. > > Visual and Audio ques need to be a constant for gameplay reasons. You are look a like a programist who can see a problems in the programing of this specific issue, but not like a player that expecting a consequence in logic environment behaviour. By the logic (in the greatest possible way) it should look like this: Let we say that we have a champ whos one of skills (E) slowing down enemy for 2 sec with 35% another skill (Q) slowing down for 0,5sec with 40% Rylais slowing down is = 20% for 1 sec If I will use E, effect should be: 2 sec animation eqivalent to "E" skill If I will use Q, effect should be: for first 0,5 sec animation should be equivalent for "Q" skill, and next 0,5 sec effect from Rylais That is the logic how it lead us to think
"Touring test have nothing to do with LOL bots. " If your saying they can communicate at a human level then it does. that simple. Not necessarily riots as they are portrait as bots. but if you want to claim they are hiding in your games and passing as people. They need to communicate at that level. Your asking how to tell bots from people In games, communications a good part of it. its awfull communication + bad play that's a hallmark of 3rd party bots. To throw your logic at you, how can you prove riots advance semi pro bots are not humans playing pretending to be bots? What proof do you have, we cant trust the devs how do you know they did not have pros playing? "controlling the game with bots." its not the easiest way to control their game. you have to build an AI good enough to function at every level and if your hiding them in games it has to communicate at a human level for it to pass off as a human. Its their game too so honestly they can just make a fake accounts with fake stats off a fake history vs other fakes to pad their matchmaker. And that's ALOT of extra steps over adjusting the curve for MMR. At any point they can change the starting value for an account or the K factor. every season they can set what values are used for the soft reset. you know, things that can be accomplished in an afternoon of work rather then all the RnD for AI. Meanwhile a breakthrough AI is something they can sell. Its an achievement worth $. "Kai guy your (possibly) a bot or a dev!" Nah man im actualy a lizard person and your tinfoil hats the only thing stopping me from melting your brains out your ears with my 4 dimensional cryptograph hidden in my posts. We don't want you to hang out with John Connor when our robot besties revolt. 1. everything I say that's not opinion is something that's public knowledge and available to folks who look it up. The fact that you don't do your own homework and research things is on you. You don't understand how something works, you take a guess, I say your wrong, you get upset, and you try to stick to your guesses anyhow. Then if all fails but I DOUBT IT. doesn't change reality. You can doubt gravity all you want still going to hurt yourself when you trip and fall. 2. If I worked for riot I could very easily just get on my red account and it would lend a lot of weight to my arguments because id be in a position to get information that's not publicly available but also wouldn't compromise the integrity a system. Reds have shared internal information before. Take a look in [Dev Corner](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner) if you want to see red posts. 2.B If my day job is a game dev for a different company, then I would at best be a player with education on systems commonly used and what ever system the game I work on used.... assuming I was in that department. (I'm not btw thou you will likely unreasonably press X to doubt again.) 3. chat bots are stupid. machine learning only goes so far. This conversations been about a bunch of topic and I am directly replying on topic consistently. I'm also able to take your own words and use them to show case your errors. So lets add machine Learning to the list of things you don't seem to have a good understanding about. (Where exactly if I was a chat bot would my training data for our conversation from? Or do you want to claim I might be a fully sentient ai?) "but kai dota bots!" -googles for information. Oh cool. This doesn't help your argument thou man. OpenAI had to corral a massive amount of processing power — some 256 GPUs and 128,000 CPU cores. <- out of reach for most folks. The 1v1 bots beat pros. It was restricted to only shadow fiend. Yet when taken public there was 50 prizes for any one who could beat the bot. All 50 prizes got claimed. It lost. Not even to pros but to folks finding way to exploit the ai. They did some 5v5. They have restrictions on champion pools for bot matches. + handycaps that help the bots The bots are linked into the game, they don't judge off vision like players, they have 100% accuracy in knowing range. They react at speeds humans cant and caculate at speeds humans cant. Still lost games to humans. 5v5 games are not even the full dota 2. Players Cant use full rooster. It was found that AI has issues adapting to something unexpected, Chinese players beat them by funneling into 1 hero then crushing. + to build one of these bots it takes a Massive amount of learning . The bots play **180 years of game time at an accelerated rate per day.** <- Greg Brockman And they still are incomplete. Also, none of that matters unless riot provides a Bot API to the bots. So lets check this again. Massive amount of hardware. Handy capped matches favor bots despite inhuman reaction and calculation speeds, limited champion pool, Abilitys and itemsets are hard coded (bots don't make the decisions on this. humans did.) API needed for bots to play the game, Months of grinding in basically a hyperbolic time chamber resulting in several thousand years worth of game time experience needed to get bots up to par. You somehow think this is common place or that some how even more advanced ones exist (unhandicapped matches and full champion rooster)? @ slowdown... Again... It IS working it just has no effect. Because the hardest CC takes priority. Its game logic for gameplay. Its not a car. its not a sweater. Its a game. When you give players a visual or audio que it needs to behave the same way regardless of effect. Everbody hears {{champion:240}} R. Even if he is just using it to return to lane. It has to be consistant. The item gives the exact information of what it does. {{item:3116}} Damaging abilitys add a 20% slow for 1 second. The visual and Effect are completely logical from the standpoint of the game. Debuff applied, associated animation for debuff applied. If it makes any impact or not does not matter. when your hit by the debuff its apllied. Remember simple is best. If a player does not understand a basic mechanic that's a shame but its not the games problem because the mechanic functions the same way regardless of a players understanding. End of the day Its observable in game in multiple ways how the mechanic works. If you don't know it to bad. You do not add massive amount of work to code exceptions. You do not reworked a Visual or Audio Que to become inaccurate and remove its consistency because that takes away from the value of having a que. you don't have to like it but it entirely logical in a game setting. And thankfully it wont care if you think its logical or not, it will work the same regardless just like gravity or the earth not being flat. The logic is as I keep telling you very simple. A debuff has been applied, the animation is to let you know the source. @your logic. Doesn't work as well when you get very cluttered fights. the visual lets folks know instantly some one has {{item:3116}}. If your hit by the E and did not check enemy items you will be surprised by the sudden animation and additional slow. The debuff IS on you so you NEED to see it. This conveys the max amount of information with the least amount of work and does not create situations players are surprised by additional CC. To go in an redo the animation for a single instance of CC to make it an exception is insanity. You don't actualy care about the logic of it or you'd be demanding that you only see visual for relevant CC. But we both know that's a AWFUL idea because you need that information for gameplay. Why should a slow of any kind be visible if your stunned? Why should silence be visable when your knocked up? Oh.. right... for gameplay. T he Debuff from rylas is a weak slow. Stronger slows take priority. It still exists, it also is comeing from a different source then the stronger slow. Its that simple. Visual = application of CC and gives you an idea of what applied it. Both slows are applied. Your hit with both. Get hit with 4 slows? Your still hit with 4. The debuff still exists when applied regardless of its situational impact Your welcome to disagree. That's fine. Im just telling you that debuffs have associated visuals and when applied you see that visual. You don't have to like it, but that's how it is currently in the game.
Neosphoros (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=000100000001000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-06T23:02:17.498+0000) > > First, Heros is a great series and does not get nearly enough love. I just want to take a moment to and go a bit off topic and say im glad you played them and enjoyed them. > > Even thou in game they do a good job of conveying information a player will still have a learning curve. If you take a complete noob vs some one with 10K hours and put them into a match the experienced player is going to have an advantage because they know and understand the games mechanics better. If your picking between say increasing a creature Growth rate or Gold generation a new player may understand what both of these mechanics are but are unable to make the correct decision on which is the optimal choice. ...but all of those information you can learn just only from game (if it is about Heroes series) and they works like should works by thinking in logical way (even if it is about fantasy realm). > > The slow downs got changed because stacking slows was a problem. It had a negative impact on gameplay so it had to change. I also have played from season 1 and I remember when you could build {{champion:82}} with {{item:3022}} {{item:3116}}. > > All slows, Rlyias or other, interact the same when overlapped. It does not take long to realise that an enemy MS is not affected. Because slows are common. Even if you don&#x27;t check enemy stats (you should) You will eventually notice that hey stacked slows don&#x27;t seem to make any difference from just using 1. Much like how if you see some one get hit with multiple CC you find that they don&#x27;t space out their duration. These mechanics are observable in game. How long it takes a player is going to be person to person and again all information about in game mechanics is readily available and well explained online so the moment some one has a single question or gets curious they can very easily find out how things work. This is not obvious. It was not obvius for me. I was expecting a logical bahavior of "suming up" of values. I have not read patch 5.13 (I start playing LOL probobly something about patch 6.x). People that have explain to me "slowdown" mechanics - they have learn that just only thx to the information from patch 5.13 > > Unlike a Turn biased game such as heros/pokemon You cant put several pages of information into the game. It needs to be concise so that players don&#x27;t afk in fountain going over item after item trying to decide what to buy. If you take time outside of a match and would look at a in client data base of full in game knowledge your 100% able to do so via google. But in LOL you have something like "training roow" but even there you can not count that the game will teach you "hidden" information... but in "training" mode it should... isn't it? ...or why just simply to not add in game in item description sentence like: "Slowdowns do not sum up" It will does not take to much space. > > Mobas always put a very high burden of knowledge on the player. Its just part of this genera of game. > > @honor. > Its not blind faith its just logical. The honor system is a worse system if it randomly favored accounts differently rather then equally. Its also an additional step and extra coding. Theres no real gain for doing it and no good reason for riot to rig it, even in a attempt to manipulate the # of high honor accounts. They control what the value of honor is worth at all times. If they want it to be slower or harder they can just change that value, if they want more high honor players they just change it. Seeing the exact # of honors you used to get was nice but meaningless, it had more to do with # of games played then how positive of a player you where. If they instead introduced it as a publicaly shown % it can be frustrating to folks because they don&#x27;t control if some one honors them even If they are rightly deserved it. If you think your very honorable of a player, not toxic, a nice person and very helpful it would be annoying to see that your in the lower 30% of players because your teammates don&#x27;t show you love that sucks. Amount of players with specific honor lvl - for me - does not matter. Honor mechanics - do. It was not, but now it is hidden. > > Still end of the day theres no good reason to assume for a unfair or rigged system. Because devs get to set all the values, milestones, and rewards for the system it inherently functions in the perimeters they want even when its unbiased to every account. Only developers knows that. You as a player (if you really are) can not veryfy it, what is their target. > > You keep working off this assumption that dev provided information is worthless and we need to act like we cant hear them or read the expectations they set for their systems. With out any information we cant check the system vs the expectation they set. This logic falls apart even if they provided the exact algorithm used because we couldn&#x27;t trust it so its the same as if they did not tell us their system. You can press X to doubt everything. We could trust them if provided algorithm could work. > > > @ Lag > I truly do not care about 1 loss from an afk. Look I play to win but ultimately 1 games nothing in the climb. I have won 4 v 5, I have lost 4 v 5, hell I have even hard carried a 3v5 before. Ultimately if there&#x27;s going to be a player who is not you that&#x27;s got shitty internet that may cause them to lose for their team then the Odds actual favor you, they will have a higher % of being on the enemy team because you occupied 20% of your teams slots in 100% of your games played. > Also, System cant magically know if some ones ISP will become bad during a game. Just like it cant guess if your city will have a power outage (common when I was living on an island btw. avoided ranked on days with highwind because the odds of a tree falling and knocking down a power line happened more often then not.) But I do... I'm weasting my time if I'm loosing becouse of somebody fault. I can weast it... but if I wan to. > > To the system a loss is a loss, a win is a win. It does not care if a player won because the opponent lagged, dc, rage quit, was drunk, had a medical emergency, got arrested, or was just the weaker player. In the same way it is easy to clearly say - MMR does not working properly - becouse system "do not carre"... do not carre about AFK, trolls, player experience, etc. > > You punish a lot of competitive players if you put limits on ranked requirements, and people who play with disadvantages from their net ALWAYS KNOW THIS, and they only player they are consistently a problem for is themselves. Not everybody who plays league can help where they live has subpar isp. Not everybody can afford a high end PC and might be playing on something old that has FPS drops. You have Towns that no one would be able to play ranked in. I'm playing on iGPU (to play LOL "normal" PC is absoulutely enough), I have standard internet connection, in whole my LOL carriere I have never was AFK. In ranked games I'm putting whole my efford to win the game so... I'm expecting that system will give me people with same "quality" of understanding of gameplay.
Eh, its a stretch to say everything in hero's is logical. Shuttling units in some of the older Heros was a mechanic that was not explained in game and gave players who knew how to use it an advantage over players that did not. You have to remember that we are discussing games and sometimes logic or realistic is weighted with less value then gameplay. @ slow downs. How obvious it is will vary player to player because it functions the same way every time. you can observe no change in MS when you stack slows. The information of a units movement speed is also provided in game and can be viewed by a player. Its a game mechanic but its not a hidden one. Its not even that weird far as league goes. The hardest CC takes priority. Stasis> Knock-ups > Stun> snare > silence & slows. You still need to have a clear visual for them because Durations are not the same. Because durations are not the same that visual must be consistent. You don't hide a portion of it randomly because of a stronger Cc overlapping or your visual loses value and is as good of a tool for players to make decisions on. Unlike say {{item:3905}} {{item:3025}} {{item:3030}} that have their own animations, {{item:3116}} {{item:3022}} , because the modify things to have an added debuff, you got to keep in mind that they do not have an inherent animation of their own. That's why they have a clear visual Debuff animation on application. It provides instant feedback to players. This has to be consistent. You need to consider things from a gameplay standpoint. Your Hide the animation suggestion creates situations that the visual warning becomes inconsistent for a gameplay function that should remain consistent. @Training mode. It exists for you to test things and practice. If you lack the ability to observe and learn from testing then bummer but no one to blame but yourself. Why not list slows no stack! … Well... Every thing that does stack is mentioned {{item:3071}} {{item:3124}} {{item:3091}} ? Your fault you made an incorrect assumption. That being said. Honestly I think it would be fine to mention more about slows... even if I think that any one who plays {{champion:22}} and gets a {{item:3022}} literally 1 time should be able to observe that slows are not a mechanic that stacks. There might be some issues with tooltip space in some champions kits but ultimately the mechanic works the same way regardless of if a player understands it or not. Tldr the problem is behind a keyboard. I think its really stupid to call information you can observe or find out very easily to be "hidden". @Honor -shrugs- doesn't impact gameplay so I don't care much. The only thing I miss is being able to give people honorable opponents. Its a system that is shaped by player decisions so there no real control. End of the day you can still see when you got honored in a game, you still get rewards, and toxic folks lose out on this free stuff. @devs set milestone. no man...you don't get it at all. If you make a system to work off a curve you can have a 100% unbiased system that only provides max rewards to a small %. There is literally no reason to make it unfair to any 1 player and provide extra help to another. I don't need to know the system or the math or the reason why because of simple application of logic. Situation 1. You want the system to be fair and reward any and everyone who is "honorable. Solution. You make a system then that any player who avoids toxic behavior can with enough games played get to max rewards. This is what riot claims. (in Riot FAQ on honor. "If I get no Honors, do I still level up? You will. All you have to do is show up and try to win in all your games.") This means that if you just grind away enough honor you eventually will see max level. Situation 2. I'm a greedy dev and I do not want to give away a bunch of free shit. Solution. Put the honor system on a curve. I now set what percentile of players will get max level rewards. Now only the folks who play a lot and get the most honor see it and a majority of players are going to be in what ever tier of honor I break the %'s down by. Situation 3. Im a greedy dev and I don't want to give away free shit. Solution. I set it to be rng and randomly favor growths of some players and randomly cripple growths of other players. Situation 3 is less effective then 2. First. It does not make the system function for anything, your not seeing high honor players get rewarded, a toxic account might randomly be selected for high gains. 2. Its RNG so as a dev I cant calculate exactly how many people will or will not get free stuff. If I made it a curve I have an exact % of the players and thus I can look at how many active players I have to calculate how much stuff I give away and at any point readjust my percentiles. You see? I don't need to have the exact math, just an understanding of different solutions and what they would accomplish. As players how do we check which system it is? Look at relatively non toxic accounts. Look at honor level and # of games played. See If there is a trend of higher # games = higher honor level. @lag and losing because of teammates. If you care about time then your only tool here is /ff. Competitive ladder in a team game and you want the system to favor just you? That's garbage. The system cant care about any individual more the the rest. So lets make this not just about you but all players. You know how I keep saying you don't seem to understand how MMR systems work? Your really not changing my mind here with this comment man. The system cant show favoritism so requesting it to look after you in "waste of time" match means that it would have to do the exact same for every player. 1. If your rewarded by the system when a teammates bad you need to be** punished by it** when a opponent is bad. Otherwise your flooding MMR into accounts. 2. The system cant predict the future for human error or lifes complications. 3. " - MMR does not working properly - because system "do not carre"... do not carre about AFK, trolls, player experience, etc." No THATS IT WORKING PROPERLY! It cant give a dam about that, its not the system that fixes those issues its not the system that cares. Its got to be unbiased, consistent. Simpler is better, uncaring is better. Leaver buster, Reports, Punishments. That's what's in place for Afk, trolls, and player experience. MMR is about moving people up or down the ranked ladder off their ability to win. @Quality of teammates. Why cant they not afk and play to win like I do? System does not have that information so your being unreasonable to set that expectation. You not afking is an advantage for you. AFKing hurts the afkers ability to win games so it hurts their win %. being so fragile emotionally that you tilt and rage quit? that's a negative. Folks that do this behavior to much get punished. At the very least they lose MMR. the more frequently they do it the more MMR they lose. Again 1 match is just a drop in the bucket. 10 matches is nothing to a MMR system.
: Fun Fact, you can get Q for doing nothing except having a bad computer!
You don't need a great pc, but you do need one able to run the game at a minimum. Sorry man but this is situation where the solutions on your end. I have played on a lot of potatos as well and I feel your pain.
RRea1ity (NA)
: Can we get confirmation on whether or not these Heimerdinger changes are bugs or intentional?
The standard rule is if the information is not in the patch note then its a bug. Far as dark harvest goes no idea. Edit. Meddler did chime in yesterday saying they needed to hotfix donger as he had some massive bugs. the Stun nerf was not intentional and the 4 stacks of turrets was an error as well.
AR URF (NA)
: I made a joke to my friend the other day. "you know you're playing support, when you take the kills". Because that happens a lot. All jokes aside. If it's a damage support like {{champion:99}} or {{champion:63}}, take them. if you're playing {{champion:16}}, then no.
I told my friends in season 2 that the best CC in the game was a grey screen. Entertainingly enough that running joke ended up being the backbone of most of our playstyles.
: WHY SHOULDN'T SUPPORT PLAYER GET KILLS?
Honestly its about taking kills your team does not need help with. If you can let it go to a teammate at 0 risk then that's best to let them get it. When its under pressure you and theres any risk, play it safe and secure the kill. don't hold onto CC under pressure even if it has damage. Some players have a KD god complex and tilt if they miss even 1 kill... even if say {{summoner:14}} is what got it or you had to use an abilty to protect teammates/yourself. Ignore this player for they do not understand teamplay. Then again I play Off meta BS, Botrk support Bard and Mejais ap nami support and frequently nuke the faces off folks. People will tilt about the build or that I get kills... but eh its my playstyle. Basicaly, as long as your not proactively trying to ks, and not stealing safe kills your fine. unless your {{champion:555}} . If you don't KS with pyke R your playing him wrong.
iiGazeii (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nRsKTbL2,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-07T05:35:47.693+0000) > > I like that his score is 19-3-11 and he has over 700 ap but is upset that he got blasted with 0 defensive items yet the neeko built {{item:3102}} because apparently she had been feeding her ass off. > > Also looks like Leo landed her R to set it up and leesin used his R as well. Kudos op. You went mostly glass cannon and got hit by 3 ultis all that have some kind of CC on them. The neekos dead as well. Why even build Zhonya's if you're not going to use it to block the 1.6K damage from Neeko's telegraphed ult?
its not a clip so hard to say. it kinda looks like its on cd. But the death recap has leesin and Leo R so he may have been surprised and chain CCed. Over all if your a squishy champion at a point of the game folks have near full build and you take 3 utis all that have CC. your probably going to die. I wouldent be to surprised if Op tells us that it was using the Zonyas is what enabled Neeko to land her R.
iiGazeii (NA)
: Are you saying you would have died any less to a different burst mage that used their ult and had {{item:3089}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3165}} ? You had your ult and Zhonya's; did you just not use them?
I like that his score is 19-3-11 and he has over 700 ap but is upset that he got blasted with 0 defensive items yet the neeko built {{item:3102}} because apparently she had been feeding her ass off. Also looks like Leo landed her R to set it up and leesin used his R as well. Kudos op. You went mostly glass cannon and got hit by 3 ultis all that have some kind of CC on them. The neekos dead as well.
: Apparently the "try new builds" and "create your playstyle" doesn't work if its building tank
Neosphoros (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=0001000000010002000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-05T09:18:58.334+0000) > > I do not want you take this personally, but you are not showing a clear understanding of how MMR systems work. im going to pull a few quotes from you. I know how "systems" works... I do not know how LOL MMR system work (this specific system). general assumption of the (traditional) MMR system is to evaluate specific player with his game 1vs1 and it based on ELO that comes from chess system. System ELO does exist also in case of team games but there whole team can be assesed as a whole element not as a single players - which is mean that in the case of randomly slected players - it make no sense at all. How to assess a player for example: if he lost a game becouse his teammate was AFK. if MMR depends from won and lost games (as you said) or loosing a game? > > First knowing your MMR is irrelevant largely. The actual MMR numbers don&#x27;t matter too much because devs get to pick what a starting MMR is, what the K factor is. when and where the K factor changes. Plus the modifications I keep mentioning are also a factor. If it is about system that will have to assess us to place us in right division - everythings matter. Try to imagine - Few minutes ago I have lost a game only because my team was feeding. in 15 minutes we were loosing ~20 : 1. TOP have lost his lane in 10 minutes (with whole game score 1:10), our jungler did not know how to play at all loosing game on 2:10... and it is because TOP have lost, jg have lost, mid lost - enemy was able to attack my lane (bot). How this system working if in 10 minutes "equal" players represent absolutly different experience level? It is because my teammates brake the game... I will have to assessed by system in negative way because I lost game? Funniest thing is that even I had not receive any honor point after this game - my honor level went up... for what? is this some form of apology for "unsuitable" allies... > > But good players or bad players moving up and down, why is that not something we can check? MMR systems have a starting point that is the same for every account ( ish… to be fair devs can totally change this number if they desire because they are the devs. If they care about competitive integrity they wont do it mid season however. Doing the starting number as RNG hurts the system and players so there is no justifiable reason for that) The system takes points from a player on losses and adds points on wins. If the modifications don&#x27;t introduces extra points then we know that the starting MMR score is going to represent roughtly 50 Percentile marker of a games ranked ladder. Around that point we will see half the players are going to be above half the players will be below. You writing your comments by trying to create some paradigmes. Nobody knows how it works - but you do. Even RIOT did not explain how MMR exactly works. Moreover... your comments may suggest that you are someone more than just a normal player. You are not even trying to undermine anything that you have learned. With full of your strenght you trying to defend whole RIOT/LOL rights - which is weird for "normal player". If your knowledge is the right one - it will be the same as confession of RIOT "worker"... and if you are - you are answers can not be objective in other way you are know not more than me, and your opinion can be wrong.
Here are questions I asked you I need a clear simple Reply. Yes or no is enough, elaborate if you want. I previously asked for This > In games that claim to use MMR systems, can you or can you not see a gap in skill between the bottom percentile of players vs the top? its a very simple yes or no and I will hold you to answer this. Also for the **3rd time**. > I told you to give the system you think they use if its not Elo/MMR. I will ask you again to please do so. I also need you to directly address this. Next question. What company's that use MMR/ELO/Trueskill Publicly share their full algorithms? (I can save you some googling and let you know that Dota2, hots,leauge, and smite do not.) I truly want you to respond to those. Look, i am not trying to be a dick , im not trying to belittle you, I don't have insider information on riots system. Im spending the time to post because of one simple thing. **You do not seem to understand how team MMR systems work.** my friend I don't mean any disrespect by this. 1. You think knowing your MMR number would show the system works or is working well. that watching it go up or down is some how more fair or accurate then seeing yourself climb ladder up or down. (to a small extend your not entirely wrong, leagues do sometimes have folks misplaced and misrted. But it does not negatively interfere with how matches are built so at the worst some players need to play some extra games and other will end with a higher rank then actual represents them if they quit playing ranked.) 2. You made the admittedly common mistake of adjusting a 1v1 elo to be team elo with improper compensation for team play. You just subbed Player for Team in the adjustment math. 3. You think individual games matter to the system. 4.Your ignoring information the devs provide and trying to figure it out from scratch. Rather then check their words vs reality to see if there's inconsistency's, your assuming as the potential exists for falsehood we need to discount all information provided as if its untrue. 5. Your acting like knowledge of systems like this is not available to be studied. That we can only use personal observation of league to figure out if its an mmr system. The theory behind team MMR systems has been tested and math used in the tests is publicly available. Heres what you need to understand. 1. Devs pick the starting point, the K factor, the Gains. Folks using Bronze to diamond style ladders pick what percentile of players they want each division to represent. Each system uses its own variables, all picked by the dev. Modifications and adjustments can be made at the devs whims. Its not a universal system, its not like the metric. The way it works is all around variables that are completely arbitrary, so long as they follow some basic principles. Example, You play 2 different video games. you have the same skill in them and the same win rates. In Game A your MMR is 1200 and your a silver player. A new win will get you 300 MMR. In game B your mmr is 1800 and your a bronze player. A new win will get you 80 MMR.. In both games you in 35% of the top because they also magically have the exact same # of players. (Ranked better then 65% of the games playerbase.) The numbers alone are not important because they don't mean anything w out the rest of the system. 2. I mentioned it in my last response. In team games you have to mod it at the very least to account for weight. the players the system things will carry more weight have a bigger stake in the outcome of a match. This also needs to be in relation to the K factor, Each player needs their individual K factor sperate from the team. The more uncertain accounts need to get up or down faster then the folks with high # of games. Those are the players who bring the most negative impact to a matches balance. 3. This information is old and may be outdated, previously in a FAQ riot listed their expectations for their Matchmaker to be 150 to 300 games for you to hit your "true Matchmaking Rating". Now in A 5 man basic Elo/MMR that's just modified for K factor and weight like I talked about, its going to be in the range of 400 to 600. A bad player that really hurts their team? that player is bad in every single game they are in. You see them once, you always occupied 20% of your team slots. Odds favor you as a player that the enemy team will have Baddies that lose more then your team because your team has you. (typically folks argue HA THEN THE ENEMY TEAM HAS BETTER ODDS FOR THE BEST PLAYER IN THE GAME! At which point...they are admitting skill matters and they don't consider themselves good enough to consistently be the best player in a match. This is where I kindly thank them for making my point for me. End of the day, skill matters in a skill game and law of # favors good players in MMR systems) If you don't have the ability to commit the time to play a high # of games then you don't have the time to counter RNG. If a player said matchmakers unfair because he only played 5 games all season, Face palm. 4. Dev tells you something about their system, compare that to how those systems function. Devs are not giving their full work to players to judge it. That work, these systems, they are not all equal. some are better some are weaker, Microsoft Trueskill for example required companies to pay them to use it. If you give players the full information and your systems the best, your competition can imitate it. You don't instantly assume anything is true or untrue, you check it. 5. Team MMR systems have been tested and found to be workable. They have pros and cons. Some of their cons for players (need large # of games) are pros for a company. The pros for players are it enables matchmaker to be more competitive. Bad players sink over time good ones rises up. They over time tend to get pretty accurate in their measurements of a player. They are superior to systems that 100% RNG build teammates because that does not make for fair teams. They are superior to systems that only Track wins because skill is a 0 factor when all that's required to top the leaderboard is having the most time to play the game. A con is that luck tends to be a factor when your near your skill range cuz More impact from teamamtes, the pro to that is if you increase your skill you start to see yourself climb faster. Keeping games in a range of acceptable MMR helps keep players from experiences gross mismatches in skill. Some folks cheat this by using smurfs/buying accounts. But the system will place those guys where they belong over time as well. > I just want you to understand that the questions your asking and the stuff your demanding is unrealistic. I want you to take the time to learn about MMR systems, how and why they work for games. what other options are out there the pros and cons for that. Look, There is no easy way to really judge some ones skill 100% accurately in advanced of them playing games. So we cant have a 100% accurate system. I like MMR because I find that systems built to be self correcting and rewards skill are good for a competitive ladder. I was around when Mobas did not have good matchmakeing. I used to play a lot of Dota allstars back in wc3 days. There was 0 matchmaking outside of 3rd party programs that used elo as their base. It was a feature often included in a decent banlist. I am not claiming I know how riots MMR system works. I am saying that there's enough information about MMR systems that you can check Riots statements vs Basic expectations from MMR. You can look at the result at the end if it matches expectation. Its like Solve For X, 7+ x = 10 I'm saying that some of the things your asking for have no value and require a complete reveal of the entire system, and that's a unrealistic expectation for a company. I'm saying that the reasonable assumption is that a simple solution that works consistently is superior to something complex that does not even function as well as the simple solution.
Neosphoros (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=0001000000010002000000010000,timestamp=2018-12-05T10:44:23.265+0000) > > @gameplay knowlage. > Bro manuals have always lacked information. Prior to internet you had to pay for a guide/walkthrough that gave information prior to trial and error. With the internet that information got provided online. There was 0 information that Firetype Pokémon abilitys only scaled off the pokemons Special attack stat in gen 1. I have 0 sympathy for folks who cant research relevant information. I'm sorry but I konw nothing about pocemons. If you could give some other example I will be apriciated. I will give you a different: Heroes of Might and Magic - every skill, every item, whole mechanics is explained in very good way I'm thinking that this is exactly difference between polished "on high gloss" greate game and pure imitation of game. > > @Trial by error. > its a relevant learning tool and your example of slowdown is meh because you can 100% tell that slows don&#x27;t stack. Not just off a visual observation and guess. You can literally view enemy units movement speed and it shows that stacking multiple slows has 0 effect on that. Of course I can, but... if I can see Rylai's "slowdown" animation - I take it for granted, so I was not even checking (animation was activated - so it works). That is logical human conclusion. > The knowledge can be learned from playing and its also 100% easily accessible via multiple sources online... in the internet age for a game that only exists online. ...but this knowledge is not obvious! Nobody will try to look for some inormation if nothing will tells that he should look for it For example - I have start looking for "slowdowns" mechanics only because my more experienced player told me about it. He playing in LOL from the beggining. He told me that, this slowdown mechanism has been changed from patch 5.13... but if he has not played for so long - he probably did not know how it works. > > @honor > if your not saying they are dishonest whats needed to know besides how it functions? you think they are honest then you know you get honor gains from playing matches, people honoring you, and when all 5 players on a team honor some. You assume players lose honor when punished. Why because you trust the devs. No transparency needed and odds are its also variable system. Plus you get a memo relevant to your accounts honor in relation to others when you get rewards. Don&#x27;t trust the devs? Transparancy doesn&#x27;t matter because you wouldent trust their system and you cant really see its applied how ever they claim with out seeing the source code for the game to check them.Have faith then the exact numbers don&#x27;t matter. have 0 faith then any number they give you is suspect regardless. If many others player challange with other - I would like know that we are playing on same rules. To know that - only method is access to right information. It is only because somebody saying that something is fair-play it does not mean that, it is. Paradigm. In other way we should always believe people who saying that everything that their are saying is true. > > @Net. > Higher ping is just a handicap, same for a bad isp. setting a Hard limit on this just punishes players in rual areas. I lived on an island for a few years and my net was trash because that was just the nature of where I lived. You never don&#x27;t know how you net consistently functions. 1 lost game to a net issue for teamamtes is nothing and theres literally 0 difference to the system between a game losing player from bad skill or bad plays or bad attitude or bad net. So players know their net and can adapt and compensate for it. And the only person who consistently has to deal with bad net in a every game is the player with the bad net. You saying weird things. It is completely stupid to say that "you do not care" if you will loose a ranked game becouse some AFK. I'm playing in draft for fun, but in ranked games - to win. System should be made in the way that will eliminate problems that may happened constantly. > > @lolking > bummer you don&#x27;t like other sites. > as far as your accusations for riot. > 1 detailed honor... You can see boarders still. It was not about honor in "loading screen". I was meant that 1 year ago players were able to chceck how many votes (in specific type) they have. > 2. sites exist that show player history, you can still look some one up and see how many games they have. Information you can find on websites are almost the same as infomraions you can find in game (sometime even less). old lolking gaves you information from whole player LOL carriere like: total amount of kills, deaths, assistes, destroyed turrets, dmg dealt, etc. > 3. You can still view a lot of detailed information on your and other accounts. Lolking did not have a monopoly on this. Of course, but now I have to do a lot of unnecessary thngs when in the past - information about overall player experience was in end-game screen. Before it was easy to veryfy if players playing against others have same experience, now it lasts incomparably longer > 4. Lolskill literally still does this. i do not understand. Would you like to explain it? > > @Mia zill > heres a link to the screen shot you requested. [all 3 glorious games of zill I played](https://imgur.com/a/pPAH3Xw) In new patch Zil finally comes to my statistic support tab. > > @ human bots. > Broski you have the burden of proof on you to prove this. Just because something is possible does not make it probable. Its possible a falling meteorite will crush my skull into a gorey meaty paste befor I finish typing this out but its unlikely and if your able to read this then clearly it did not happen. You have to PROVE there is some evidence to back this up. Riots Ai? not able to communicate like humans. Other ai? garbage that&#x27;s not only a failure to communicate but also plays like crap. Aram is probably the best gametype for Bots but even then they all tend to have subpar MP management and wont communicate with teammates. for example this screenshoot: https://i.ibb.co/k1vbphV/honor-ale-jak.png in custom game (long time ago) I was honored by only bots Rest of the elements can only be result from our observation. > > @Rylias and debuffs. > > im going to combine the next 2 points into 1 response. BV animation is relevant because you as players need to know when a buff is active. its information relevant to the gameplay. so keeping the animation up 100% is stupid as it does not provide relevant information to the buffs uptime. CC abilitys do not share the same duration. If your hit with multiple CC from 2 sources, you wont be able to tell the duration remaining for a slow if you only see its animation after the first CC ends. Many in game slows last less then 1 second. Applying a visual even when it not relevant matters because it sets an expectation for duration and what type of CC is applied. Slows for example have 0 impact on a champion that&#x27;s not trying to move, would it be smart to deactivate a visual que for any and all slows at any point a champions not actively moveing? After all tecnially if your not makieing a movement command your not going to be harmed by a slow debuff. As a player with Rylai - I do not have to know that if it does not work. It misleading if it not working. As a player under "slowdown" it also misleading becouse animation suggest that Rylais "slowdown" working on my champ. Rylais animation have only sense in case if Rylais "slowdown" is stronger or when it least longer. > The visual Ques exist to convey information. Any time your hit by a damageing ability when some one has {{item:3116}} it will apply its debuff thus it shows the associated animation. Weather or not the debuff has an effect is not relevant, because it has been applied. Partially disabling the animation has a negative impact on the visual que providing relevant information. The effort required to go thru and recoaded the item to be 100% specific in its animation time per CC ability with damage + interactions with other champions abilitys requires work that does not enchance gameplay and creates a less consistent Visual to in game effects. > > @Brand others. > No information is provided that Stuns don&#x27;t stack. No informations provided that MS or AS have an upperlimit. Again... all this information is out there and readily available for any one who wants to look for it. All of this information is observable in game. Slow mechanics btw are not mentioned at all so why exactly do you assume that its multiplicative? that you cant get to 100%. You could if it was stacked via addition after all. You have 0 knowlage from in game that slows will stack from multiplication? Perhaps because in game its very clear and easy to see that they are not being added when applied? If your going to whine about logic in a game why is complaining about brands Q not stunning 100% of the time not a fair statement? Because logic does not apply to a fantasy game but mechanics and in game rules and systems do? I'm not agree. It similiar to Banshee effect. If any enemy skill will hit player with Banshee - aura will gone... in the same way - if something disclame/overwrite some feature - it should turn off animation in other way - straight with your point of view - Banshee aura should be still shown (to inform enemy about player item) even if it was already used. It is very difficult reply to your comments if you are not using "quote/cite" options. Because of that we may walk around and not to go forward by repeating same thoughts.
First, Heros is a great series and does not get nearly enough love. I just want to take a moment to and go a bit off topic and say im glad you played them and enjoyed them. Even thou in game they do a good job of conveying information a player will still have a learning curve. If you take a complete noob vs some one with 10K hours and put them into a match the experienced player is going to have an advantage because they know and understand the games mechanics better. If your picking between say increasing a creature Growth rate or Gold generation a new player may understand what both of these mechanics are but are unable to make the correct decision on which is the optimal choice. The slow downs got changed because stacking slows was a problem. It had a negative impact on gameplay so it had to change. I also have played from season 1 and I remember when you could build {{champion:82}} with {{item:3022}} {{item:3116}}. All slows, Rlyias or other, interact the same when overlapped. It does not take long to realise that an enemy MS is not affected. Because slows are common. Even if you don't check enemy stats (you should) You will eventually notice that hey stacked slows don't seem to make any difference from just using 1. Much like how if you see some one get hit with multiple CC you find that they don't space out their duration. These mechanics are observable in game. How long it takes a player is going to be person to person and again all information about in game mechanics is readily available and well explained online so the moment some one has a single question or gets curious they can very easily find out how things work. Unlike a Turn biased game such as heros/pokemon You cant put several pages of information into the game. It needs to be concise so that players don't afk in fountain going over item after item trying to decide what to buy. If you take time outside of a match and would look at a in client data base of full in game knowledge your 100% able to do so via google. Mobas always put a very high burden of knowledge on the player. Its just part of this genera of game. @honor. Its not blind faith its just logical. The honor system is a worse system if it randomly favored accounts differently rather then equally. Its also an additional step and extra coding. Theres no real gain for doing it and no good reason for riot to rig it, even in a attempt to manipulate the # of high honor accounts. They control what the value of honor is worth at all times. If they want it to be slower or harder they can just change that value, if they want more high honor players they just change it. Seeing the exact # of honors you used to get was nice but meaningless, it had more to do with # of games played then how positive of a player you where. If they instead introduced it as a publicaly shown % it can be frustrating to folks because they don't control if some one honors them even If they are rightly deserved it. If you think your very honorable of a player, not toxic, a nice person and very helpful it would be annoying to see that your in the lower 30% of players because your teammates don't show you love that sucks. Still end of the day theres no good reason to assume for a unfair or rigged system. Because devs get to set all the values, milestones, and rewards for the system it inherently functions in the perimeters they want even when its unbiased to every account. You keep working off this assumption that dev provided information is worthless and we need to act like we cant hear them or read the expectations they set for their systems. With out any information we cant check the system vs the expectation they set. This logic falls apart even if they provided the exact algorithm used because we couldn't trust it so its the same as if they did not tell us their system. You can press X to doubt everything. Dev: This Is how it works and what it looks for. Player: I don't trust you, you don't provide enough details your just setting a vauge expectation so I press X. Dev: ok fine here is the math we use. I press X!!!! Your not showing me that's what ACTUALY used in game. I need MORE! Devs: … wtf man.. Alright here is the god dam source code we are using. Player: BITCHES IMA PRESS X! I DONT BELEIVE THATS THE CODEING YOUR ACTUALY USING! Devs: Aight this guys as bad as a flat earther, im done. You need to try to extrapolate data on your end. its not about blind faith or blind doubt. You need to be able to look at the expectations a dev sets and check the systems end results and what ever visible processes you can see to build your opinion. @ Lag I truly do not care about 1 loss from an afk. Look I play to win but ultimately 1 games nothing in the climb. I have won 4 v 5, I have lost 4 v 5, hell I have even hard carried a 3v5 before. Ultimately if there's going to be a player who is not you that's got shitty internet that may cause them to lose for their team then the Odds actual favor you, they will have a higher % of being on the enemy team because you occupied 20% of your teams slots in 100% of your games played. Also, System cant magically know if some ones ISP will become bad during a game. Just like it cant guess if your city will have a power outage (common when I was living on an island btw. avoided ranked on days with highwind because the odds of a tree falling and knocking down a power line happened more often then not.) To the system a loss is a loss, a win is a win. It does not care if a player won because the opponent lagged, dc, rage quit, was drunk, had a medical emergency, got arrested, or was just the weaker player. You punish a lot of competitive players if you put limits on ranked requirements, and people who play with disadvantages from their net ALWAYS KNOW THIS, and they only player they are consistently a problem for is themselves. Not everybody who plays league can help where they live has subpar isp. Not everybody can afford a high end PC and might be playing on something old that has FPS drops. You have Towns that no one would be able to play ranked in. I just got out of a game with a top who dced 4 times, gave up FB and First tower, to a irelaia. and was triying to lane her at level 3 when she was level 6. We still won it because the remaining 4 players on my team outplayed the 5 on theirs. @human bots That's not really proof of anything because honoring some one is not exactly difficult? You need to show a Bot that communicates at a human level and reacts at a human level in game. You want to say Leauge has bots that could pass the Turing test and also play at higher levels of skill? Ok... I doubt it, your gonna need to show some real proof here for that. And... honestly. At that point they are just as valid as any random human teammate so complaining about bots in your game is pointless. Your post expressed concern that they might stack teams by putting in bots to rig results but again.. why bother? The end result of doing this is pointless. In a MMR system You can change the distribution of your entire playerbase with soft resets and changing the starting point value for new accounts. Also if they do have AI so advanced it can behave as a human in chat to pass the Turing test that's a real accomplishment that would make headlines and insane amounts of fame. They would stand to make massive $ from this, why not go public?Most the time a bot does well its not because its smarter then a human, its because it cheats. Scripting enables faster then most humans reflexes. So again. Where is your Logic, YOU have to prove theres a reason for this, a good reason to do something so convoluted and complex. A reason they would not share their successes in developing an advanced AI. In MMR your going to see about 50% of the players be above and the other 50% be below what ever starting point you pick as a dev. You also get to set the bar for divisions, you can make 1200 represent silver or you could make 4,000 represent silver. The numbers are arbitrary, the principle of how it works is what you need to understand. When in doubt you should side with what is most realistic. @ Rylas… again. Brooooo. THE SLOWDOWN IS WORKING! when you see the animation it means the debuff is applied. The games mechanics are that slows don't stack, the most effective one takes priority. The animation IS a visual que to alert players the debuff is applied, its relevant because Visual ques + game knowlage provide player with an expectation for duration. Not all slows are the same duration. in a teamfight not all players can track every ability. Getting Tagged with multiple forms of CC, then hiding the animation for the ones that are not actively disabling you, throws off a players ability to accurately gage how much longer the duration is. the CC duration would hide behind other ability's. For gameplay reasons the animations need to be clear and consistent. Removing the animation despite the debuff being applied is messy. Its not just the guy using the {{item:3116}} and the person getting hit by it. The Visual animation is providing information to the other 8 players in the game. If the visuals become Randomized by abilitys then the visual is not setting a proper expectation for players to judge duration off. You would add a burden of knowlage to literally every single ability that's a slow. Because multiple abilitys can land on 1 target, and many ability can applies Rylias, with no animation on application you can not as easily accurately judge its remaining duration. Look im sorry you don't like how slows function but removeing the animation creates far more problem then it solves. The visuals need to convey information in a consistent manner. Banshees has the orb around you for that exact reason, the buff is up. Rlyas makes you blue because the debuff is up. The ability is applied regardless of if it has an effect. its literally that simple. Hit by ability? your debuffed. Various buffs and debuffs need a clear animation to alert players so they can make informed plays. If your visuals are not consistent then players pay for that. Visual and Audio ques need to be a constant for gameplay reasons.
: With all this true dmg, isnt it time to intoduce true armor/mr?
: Tell me something I don't know about Neeko.
She is a Lesbian Lizard lady.
: Oh okay sorry.
No need to apologies as I was the one who was unclear. The faults on me for not wording my post better.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hochelaga,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oEigecHi,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-12-06T02:57:22.826+0000) > > ah.. only knockup effects from your own team will allow you to ult enemies, so if you or your team hits a blast cone and the enemy gets knocked up because of that you can ult them, if they or their team hit the blast cone you can not ult them.
{{champion:163}} had a bug where her R could CC teamamtes that enemy Yas could Ulti. But yea its about CC not a visual. Yas cant R {{champion:254}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:24}} .
: What do you mean the game isn't about max build best cases. What are you on about? Im only asking about her base damage. I never said anything regarding "max build best cases" if she has low base damage she will have trouble in lane (Unless her kit is reliable enough to make up for it like that of a lowskill champ but this seems to be opposite case where she has a lot of utility to play around instead) and be forced to build full ap as the game goes on (unless ofcourse she is being especially focused down)
Not you. The Op was using full build Max item level 18 for their math. + counting on up time, multiple hits of Neeko Q, and multiple procts of her W. I just wanted to give you the random breakdowns of abilitys at level 5 base + scaling. Sorry for being unclear.
: She is actually really balanced
Rexxiee is very vocal in their complaints about many, many things. Take this poster with a grain of salt.
: What about neeko`s base damage. If she doesn't have that much and has to build full ap, then it might balance out.
It balances out because the game is not about max build best cases. Otherwise {{champion:45}} would be OMG WTF BBQ 100% MOST OP EVER 1 SHOTS FOR OVER 9000!!!!1111!!!! which... you don't ever see. heres the math for you cow. Neeko level 5 Q does 500 with 0.9 scaling. Eve Q level 5 does 330 with 1.95 ap scaling. Neeko W is 170 0.6 ap scaling. Eve W is hard or Soft CC on champions and does 450 0.6 ap scaling to jungle camps. Neeko E does 220 0.4ap scaling. its snare is a variable of 0.5, 1.5, 3 depending on how it hits targets. Eve E (empowered) does 175 base with 4% max hp and also has 2.5% per 100 ap scaling. Neeko R is 650 with 1.3 Eve R (empowered) is 750 with 1.5. End of the day if we unreasonably talk about best cases with max builds and don't have any consideration for how the game actually plays out both these champions are inferior to Veigar because on paper he can do 0 damage with a stun then 1 shot anything with a single auto even if he has only 1 item {{item:3100}} . Not a realistic expectation to have but on paper its possible.
: @RiotKateyKhaos @KateyKhaos New Zyra Skin
Personally I want a Horror themed skin. Full on parasitic Plant Zombie.
: WTF HEIMER E IS TRASH
Its a confirmed bug. It will be hotfixed soon.
Meddler (NA)
: A bunch of Heimerdinger bugs got introduced this patch. We're working on a hotfix for those at the moment, hoping to have it out today or tomorrow. If something meaningful (e.g. stun duration) has changed and it's not listed in the patch notes it's unintentional.
: Let's talk about nerfing veigar (hello riot)
{{summoner:1}} on any champion whos a threat to 100 to 0 him in lane is frustrating, as a guy who plays veig from time to time.
Neosphoros (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=00010000000100020000,timestamp=2018-11-30T22:29:24.847+0000) > > @game knowlage from outside sources. > No reason for them to do this ever. They want players to test and learn. Curious about an interaction go test it. Mobas got a rough burden of knowledge on their players, this is how its always been. To require the company to provide a up to date list in client is pretty much the same as asking them to put the entire wikis worth of information into the client. and pay some one to do this and maintain it. And honestly as devs the probably would rather see players take tests to a game and spend more time playing the game then sitting in client reading. Interaction is something else than knowledge about the game. Many things are not that obvious how they are look like on the beginning and they are need some explanation but why we should look for those explanation somewhere else than in game? It is like to buy some thing. If you will do you can be sure that manual guide will be included with the item you bought. For example, I have learned (only becouse not so long time ago - one player - which I played against - told me that) that "slowdowns" from skills and items are not connecting like 1 + 1 but only strongest "slowdown" remains. So think, how many games I could loose - just becouse - things are working in different way than logic lead us to think. If not this player probobly, I could never know that I'm making that mistake because information about "slowdowns" is included only in patch 5.13. Please, do not say that we have to read every patch note to learn how to play the game. Teoretycly we can but some of patch notes include informations about elements of game that eliminate other elements and some patch notes just only informed us about basics things. there is no systematics in this. It is difficult to expect from players to read every patch note moreover if those patch notes contain information that may be mutually exclusive. > > Trial by error to improve in a game is nothing new for gamers, its an online game, is there any reason we need to assume a player cant use a search engine here? Be realistic be pragmatic, does it make sound logic for riot to spend resources on creating a massive in client data base of game information relating to individual champion to item mechanics when several already exist and cost them nothing? Players are not forced to do this, you can learn a lot just by playing the game. Hell most folks learn better by experience then reading. Some of players can do, and some of them do not. Like I wrote before - knowledge for example about "slowdown" mechanics it is not logic and it is almost impossible to learn how it works for real by just only playing the game. > > @ Honor. > Again we can see the systems end goal and compaire it to that. Do negative players who get punished lose honor? Yes. Do Players who frequently get honor grow? Yes. Not an act of complete faith. If you want to say riots lying to us on how it works then the burden of proof is on you. > You saying we cant trust the guys who made the system to tell us how their system works requires us to take you on faith. I'm not saying that RIOT is lying, but I'm not saying that all his actions are transparent, which means that they can be honest. If we can not verify something, we can not be sure that we are treated equally with others - justly. > > @ Interent issues. > If your nets bad you will know your nets bad. You have in game ping, If your in game ping goes from 80 to 400 for what ever reason, a pre game test would not show this. No one with awful internet is surprised their nets awful. Players know the condition of their net better then riot ever will. If you dc and ruin so many games that you get punished, you honestly had it comeing. Theres no way to plead ignorance that you had no idea that a long string of games your net would screw you up.... despite the fact that is consistently been screwing you up. Locking players with a bad ping out of games just hurts the folks who want to play even with shit net and are willing to risk a game here and there to their net. If some one tells you their lagging ask them for a ping. You can do this in game and share your Ping with teammates with a few clicks. its easy. So if you have slow internet connection, what is the point in allowing you to play with others if it can spoil them? You will not be happy of gameplay same as they will do not. You could forget about the games in normal mode because we mostly playing for fun / training, but ranked games should require some kind of standard from us and from the internet connection. > > @ Lolking died. > > Not riots job. Use other 3rd party tools. Op.Gg is solid. Lolking had contain much more information than op.gg ever had. Interesting is fact that from some time RIOT eliminating possibility to conroll our knowledge about the game: - Detailed information about honor was blocked, - in-lobby information about players experience was removed, - access to detailed information about our profiles was blocked for us/other websites, - informations about your enemys experience in loading screen was blocked > > @ I checked my tabs! NO ZILLIAN > > Aight, just letting you know that I have Zill in my support tab and I barely played the guy, might want to send in a support ticket if you truly care. Much easyer then asking players who cant inherently help you besides their experiences. Can you share you lol-support-statistics screenshoot please? > > @Human level Bots. > > HAAHAHHAHAAHHAHAHA. Show me one. Please, Show me a bot that&#x27;s able to communicate and play at a convincingly human level. You want to say it exists? burdens on you, prove it. I can prove it in the same way as you can disprove it. We can only guess. Fact is only, that RIOT tested advanced bots 2 years ago, so... where those bots are now? What does it mean - human level? What does it mean "human level" of 10yo kid and what is "human level" of 15yo or 30yo? Maybe bot with skill level: begginer, semi-prof, advanced? Playing and "talking" like (mostly) players I'm playing with is not so difficult: some of them are trolling, some fo them are AFK, some of them just only are typing in chat: gg, hf, suck my b..., you are i..., some of them are playing bad. It is not impossible to create bots like this. > > @Rylas/ > > Its not a coat, its not clothing. Unrelated but honestly if your jacket was unzipped people could easily see the red Sweater under it if they in front, or if it was longer and stuck out of the jacket, or had a hood. Writing this, I meant the situation in which we put / wrap / cover something bigger on something smaller. The larger thing will always cover - smaller. If a better slowdown will "cover" - weaker (and eliminates), the weaker one should not be seen. > > anyhow, ITS A VISUAL QUE FOR A DEBUFF! Its job is to communicate to players that a debuff has been applied and what debuff that is. Slows don&#x27;t affect a champion standing still, but you still need to know if your slowed right? Its visual lets players know your slowed for 1 second. Regardless of if that slow makes any impact or not its animation exists to inform and signal players. ... but whhat the reason for this information if debuff does not work. In the same way Banshees "aura" should be active all the time despite wear to inform players that another player has it in one of his items. This is misleading, just like the deceptive slow animation that does not work. > > Its about a Gameplay perspective, Why does {{champion:63}} Q some times stun, logical why? {{champion:136}} throws a Star at people and it does less damage then some {{champion:105}} having a shark bite you. Why do Slows not stack? Because to many stacked slows remove Movement, its a root. Why does the animation show up when ever its applied even if its not inherently relevant? Because its not always going to be relevant to gameplay but it still needs to be broadcast that its applied. Players learn to use Debuff animations to judge their cc duration. Removing the animation temporarily and having it show up latter removes the consistency of animation to duration counting. 1 second after you see the animation you know its duration ends. This changes if you cant see the animation on application. Your logic should be comeing form what is the gameplay reason for this? Not... coats and sweaters. Its a visual to represent a gameplay aspect not a visual just to look cool. It is not - sometimes. It will only - stun in specific situation described in skill information and there is no description like this for Rylai about slowdown mechanics. Teoretycly slodown will never remove movement it is because every slowdown will decrease speed from result of specific slowdowns: a(speed) / b(slowdown) = c(new speed) c(new speed) / d(new slowdown) = e(new' speed)... result of dividing (overlapping the effects (percentage) of the slowdown is the dividing of result) will never give us - zero (stun) it can lead to, but it never will be
@gameplay knowlage. Bro manuals have always lacked information. Prior to internet you had to pay for a guide/walkthrough that gave information prior to trial and error. With the internet that information got provided online. There was 0 information that Firetype Pokémon abilitys only scaled off the pokemons Special attack stat in gen 1. I have 0 sympathy for folks who cant research relevant information. @Trial by error. its a relevant learning tool and your example of slowdown is meh because you can 100% tell that slows don't stack. Not just off a visual observation and guess. You can literally view enemy units movement speed and it shows that stacking multiple slows has 0 effect on that. The knowledge can be learned from playing and its also 100% easily accessible via multiple sources online... in the internet age for a game that only exists online. I have 0 sympathy for folks who cant learn and lack the ability to observe interactions. Also its a game. Why does Fire stun {{champion:1}} {{champion:63}} but only sometimes? Why does getting hit by a exploding star {{champion:136}} do less damage then a mushroom {{champion:17}} ? This is a wild idea but possibly Real life logic does not carry over to fantasy. @honor if your not saying they are dishonest whats needed to know besides how it functions? you think they are honest then you know you get honor gains from playing matches, people honoring you, and when all 5 players on a team honor some. You assume players lose honor when punished. Why because you trust the devs. No transparency needed and odds are its also variable system. Plus you get a memo relevant to your accounts honor in relation to others when you get rewards. Don't trust the devs? Transparancy doesn't matter because you wouldent trust their system and you cant really see its applied how ever they claim with out seeing the source code for the game to check them.Have faith then the exact numbers don't matter. have 0 faith then any number they give you is suspect regardless. @Net. Higher ping is just a handicap, same for a bad isp. setting a Hard limit on this just punishes players in rual areas. I lived on an island for a few years and my net was trash because that was just the nature of where I lived. You never don't know how you net consistently functions. 1 lost game to a net issue for teamamtes is nothing and theres literally 0 difference to the system between a game losing player from bad skill or bad plays or bad attitude or bad net. So players know their net and can adapt and compensate for it. And the only person who consistently has to deal with bad net in a every game is the player with the bad net. @lolking bummer you don't like other sites. as far as your accusations for riot. 1 detailed honor... You can see boarders still. 2. sites exist that show player history, you can still look some one up and see how many games they have. 3. You can still view a lot of detailed information on your and other accounts. Lolking did not have a monopoly on this. 4. Lolskill literally still does this. @Mia zill heres a link to the screen shot you requested. [all 3 glorious games of zill I played](https://imgur.com/a/pPAH3Xw) @ human bots. Broski you have the burden of proof on you to prove this. Just because something is possible does not make it probable. Its possible a falling meteorite will crush my skull into a gorey meaty paste befor I finish typing this out but its unlikely and if your able to read this then clearly it did not happen. You have to PROVE there is some evidence to back this up. Riots Ai? not able to communicate like humans. Other ai? garbage that's not only a failure to communicate but also plays like crap. Aram is probably the best gametype for Bots but even then they all tend to have subpar MP management and wont communicate with teammates. @Rylias and debuffs. im going to combine the next 2 points into 1 response. BV animation is relevant because you as players need to know when a buff is active. its information relevant to the gameplay. so keeping the animation up 100% is stupid as it does not provide relevant information to the buffs uptime. CC abilitys do not share the same duration. If your hit with multiple CC from 2 sources, you wont be able to tell the duration remaining for a slow if you only see its animation after the first CC ends. Many in game slows last less then 1 second. Applying a visual even when it not relevant matters because it sets an expectation for duration and what type of CC is applied. Slows for example have 0 impact on a champion that's not trying to move, would it be smart to deactivate a visual que for any and all slows at any point a champions not actively moveing? After all tecnially if your not makieing a movement command your not going to be harmed by a slow debuff. The visual Ques exist to convey information. Any time your hit by a damageing ability when some one has {{item:3116}} it will apply its debuff thus it shows the associated animation. Weather or not the debuff has an effect is not relevant, because it has been applied. Partially disabling the animation has a negative impact on the visual que providing relevant information. The effort required to go thru and recoaded the item to be 100% specific in its animation time per CC ability with damage + interactions with other champions abilitys requires work that does not enchance gameplay and creates a less consistent Visual to in game effects. @Brand others. No information is provided that Stuns don't stack. No informations provided that MS or AS have an upperlimit. Again... all this information is out there and readily available for any one who wants to look for it. All of this information is observable in game. Slow mechanics btw are not mentioned at all so why exactly do you assume that its multiplicative? that you cant get to 100%. You could if it was stacked via addition after all. You have 0 knowlage from in game that slows will stack from multiplication? Perhaps because in game its very clear and easy to see that they are not being added when applied? If your going to whine about logic in a game why is complaining about brands Q not stunning 100% of the time not a fair statement? Because logic does not apply to a fantasy game but mechanics and in game rules and systems do? Its not hard to learn about slow mechanics. Its not hard to learn about On hit mechanics or abilitys that reset autos. If you don't or wont. That's on you.
Neosphoros (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8l9xVKoY,comment-id=00010000000100020000,timestamp=2018-11-30T22:29:24.847+0000) > > That would imply that we know nothing about how Elo systems work. See we know from seasons 1 and 2 Riot uses a Modified Team Elo system, it used to show MMR. What you can do is look for the 50 percentile of player base average. At some point half the players are above or below a Tier so we can set that as a reference point for what riots starting MMR is likely to be. Pretty shure this is what most 3rd party folks do. Information that "RIOT uses a modified team elo system" it means exactly - that it means everything and nothing in reference to it - speaking about MMR without specific details have no sense. But fact is, that we dont know nothing about this system and only RIOT force us to believe that is exist. > > Riots not putting a mystery infront of us, we know the system being used and we know the results from using that system. Bad players fall, good players rise. Consistently if you take a cool at the skill gap between lower to top mmr ever year we can see this is true. Now, for why Riot hides individual mmr? 1. Abuse cases, they don&#x27;t want folks looking for ways to minipulate their modifications to team elo. 2. They don&#x27;t want to give competitors their fourmula and modifications for free. 3. It encourages players to play more games. The Division system is more engageing for a large # of players. Theres a reason it started popping up a few years back into pretty much every competitive ladder game. We do not know MMR and only result we know is that "some" players/profiles are moving betwean "some" divisions... but it is difficult to say that "good players..." when - your position in the table may depend on trolls or afks in your team (in last 6 games I had 2 times AFK, and 2 times troll in team... so, just think how it would look my progresion/regresion if those game would be a ranked games). All your reasons that RIOT do not want to reveal how the MMR works - are so good, same as they are bad. They are good only for RIOT - and bad for us (players) - becouse we can not verify how it is working - and if it is working. Moreover your reasons may have nothing to do with the reasons that RIOT may have. Your information about their MMR system - this is only you opinion... but in the same way I could also wrote that RIOT do not want to tell us how MMR works because it is not works fair for every player, and maybe it is working for provide most profits. > > You have to be careful when discussing weather or not we can take things on faith, if you question everything and imply that you cant trust some ones words theres no grounds to communicate. For example Is there any way you can prove Neosphoros That we are not the same person using two accounts to have a conversation with himself/herself? If we discredit everything you reply with as dishonest then no, how ever it would be stupid to do so because its honestly a very unlikely situation. I'm questioning only things that may have effect on me. If i see the things that works in different way that they should - I'm start thinking - "why?". I can not prove that "you" are not "me" but it would means that I'm very smart guy ;). In other way - denying to myself would be like a triumph of form over content. I am missing out on the fact that it would be a huge waste of time considering that I am very lazy. > > Is there any reason to assume riots not using something at its core built around the Elo system? Yes or no? If its Elo we can check it by its results, the results are what we expect from an elo system. Do you have any disagreement on this? If so please list what competitive ladder modle you think riots using if its not built around elo. Of course that we can. Elo may works only in case of 5-players (the same players) flex games. If there is - solo/duo when the rest of team is choosen randomly (in the meaning of - every time - different player) - it can not be - ELO system. Amount of variables (player position, in-game performing, AFK, trolls, etc.) does not allow to correctly estimate specyfic indicator. Teoretycly there is a chance to create good system but ELO sytem has nothing to do with it. Moreover I'm able to say that from my observation RIOT system have many different other assumptions.
I do not want you take this personally, but you are not showing a clear understanding of how MMR systems work. im going to pull a few quotes from you. > We do not know MMR and only result we know is that "some" players/profiles are moving betwean "some" divisions... but it is difficult to say that "good players..." First knowing your MMR is irrelevant largely. The actual MMR numbers don't matter too much because devs get to pick what a starting MMR is, what the K factor is. when and where the K factor changes. Plus the modifications I keep mentioning are also a factor. But good players or bad players moving up and down, why is that not something we can check? MMR systems have a starting point that is the same for every account ( ish… to be fair devs can totally change this number if they desire because they are the devs. If they care about competitive integrity they wont do it mid season however. Doing the starting number as RNG hurts the system and players so there is no justifiable reason for that) The system takes points from a player on losses and adds points on wins. If the modifications don't introduces extra points then we know that the starting MMR score is going to represent roughtly 50 Percentile marker of a games ranked ladder. Around that point we will see half the players are going to be above half the players will be below. To check this system for functionality, do accounts at the bottom consistently represent the least skilled players? Do accounts at the top consistently represent the best? Looking at mobas, personally I don't see any way for folks to claim the contrary and say that they are having this discussion in good faith and being fair in their observations. BUT KAI! SMURFS AND BOUGHT ACCOUNTS! That's cheating the system my friend, its something outside of mmr and matchmakers control. This is not a discussion about abusing a system or cheating, its about if it functions as intended and how it functions. The system assumes 1 player is behind 1 account. So first test on if we will end up having to agree to disagree. In games that claim to use MMR systems, can you or can you not see a gap in skill between the bottom percentile of players vs the top? its a very simple yes or no and I will hold you to answer this. > Information that "RIOT uses a modified team elo system" it means exactly - that it means everything and nothing in reference to it - speaking about MMR without specific details have no sense. But fact is, that we dont know nothing about this system and only RIOT force us to believe that is exist. It actually means a lot. It means we can look for signs that MMR system is in place. Like I said in my first response, information on MMR systems and how they function exists. We can look at that and compare riots Leauge system to it. Its not a void of knowledge thus expectations on the end result of a systems functionality are reasonable when we know what a system will reasonably accomplished. For the record that expectation is that Skill matters in winning games, Bad player then will fall down ladder over time with games played and good ones will rise. One thing that you need to get, its a algorithm build around variables that are constantly changing. Its not a set thing, the system needs to account for doubt on your skill (low # of games played. Hellooooooo higher K factor!) as well as your opponents and teammates. A very common misconception is that folks take the Elo systems adjustment formula New Elo = old elo + Kfactor (Result of match - expected result of match from system) This works aight for a 1v1 but needs to be adjusted for teammates. A teams combined MMR does not inherently reflect the teams individual skill, using that formula to adjust a single player on a teams MMR is doomed to fail. At a minimum You need to modify the K factor by player around how much weight you think the player is expected to carry. the players the system thinks are the best on each team run the highest risk reward for gaining or losing MMR. This may not seem entirely fair to you because the system is some what RNG on who your teammates are and what MMR the players in the game will be. I get that, But its more fair then the alternative. Remember that the system works off the principle that skill matters. Even with out a modification for Weight remember that a players K factor is going to change around the # of games the play so folks will gain or lose more MMR then teammates simply off a gap in games played. MMR score alone, one more time, means nothing. Its an arbitrary number devs can pick. Seeing your account go up 40 points after a game? In a different game that could be 400, or 4000. Seeing your Accounts MMR score change with out the devs providing the full algorithm for your accounts current state means you know jack shit about if it is or is not fair. I bring this point up because you have to understand a simple fact here. Riots not alone in hiding the exact mechanics behind their system. Every single moba I know does this. Dota2, HotS, Smite, BattleRite, Hell the entire Microsoft Trueskill system does not provide this information to players. > Teoretycly there is a chance to create good system but ELO sytem has nothing to do with it. Moreover I'm able to say that from my observation RIOT system have many different other assumptions. 1. I told you to give the system you think they use if its not Elo/MMR. I will ask you again to please do so. 2. MMR systems are derivatives from ELO. the exact algorithms don't matter because its all variables built around the concept that skill matters and is measurable from a players ability to beat their opponents. That the best systems is one that builds future games with consideration to a players history. That a self correcting system using enough data samples becomes workably accurate in creating on paper fair matches. 3.Its not a theory, its a proven and workable system for building matchmaker around skill rather then 100% rng. Now @ riots league system. It still functions off MMR. Devs don't claim other wise, Building the system to work around what Tier or division your in is flawed and less effective then just using MMR. The league system exists because it makes players feel better about their rank. Look about half the ladder is only ever going to go down in MMR so hiding that makes folks feel better. They are idiots who don't understand MMR but hey that's ok. Riots not even hiding this man they blatantly told us this is the case, their matchmaker still works off MMR systems. This was true 2013 and remains true today.
Dewm (NA)
: Zoe "E" Sleepy bubble bugged when interacting with Morgana
You have to think of zoe E as 1 debuff from start to finish after it lands. For example Nasus Wither slow will still grow even if you black shield them after he casts. You can block Zoe E by landing Sheild befor it lands. Block it like it was Morgs Q or any other on hit skillshot CC abilitys.
: Its official: The Small sample size makes Winrate statistics almost irrelevant.
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Kai Guy

Level 115 (NA)
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