: well, all a game really needs to stay relevant is to make sure that its competition is not more appealing than it is when a game has an established playerbase, keeping the players happy with well thought out decisions for new additions helps to keep things fresh when things get slow, something as simple as adding a new item or a game mode can attract players back frankly, what holds a lot of league's players to league is that other games simply do not compare. League had the largest playerbase in the world, a great user interface, nearly limitless possible matchups/team compositions and multiple game modes to make it even more thought-provoking, **IT'S FREE** , the developers were open and happy with the community but now it's all PR stuff with nonsensical or non-existent explanations for what goes wrong for instance, with game length going down and death timers longer, the average number of damage has not changed, but, the immediate, visible impact of damage HAS CHANGED 100 million players played the game less than 3 years ago. How many did they lose that they started using advertising campaigns and in-game rewards to try and attract people to invite friends to the game?
Im gonna be honest, league would probably be better for me if more casual gamer's quit it. I have no doubt that the Game time changes where made because it was indicated to riot that a higher demographic of players would play. Riot put in a lot of work into making LoL a very accessible moba, I think they catered to the folks who should have been viewed as short term players rather then focus on developing for a core of dedicated moba lovers. Making it so that they keep the folks who play a game or two here and there stick around to play here and there rather then go for the guys putting in 4-6 games daily. That being said it should be mentioned that I'm openly biased on this and its entirely possible I am completely incorrect on this view.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fPp4BhXI,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-18T09:37:28.054+0000) > > Honestly... No. {{champion:32}} Dash, Huge AOE Cc. {{champion:53}} Still has the games best single target displacement basic ability in the game, more CC ontop of that. {{champion:9}} Fear used to be 3 seconds. {{champion:79}} Dash, Aoe knockback. {{champion:24}} Dodge was a passive + active, free dodge % always, free stun on triggers as well. Activated aoe stun, with damage. There was also an item for extra dodge % that worked with his passive. good times. Also there was {{champion:54}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:4}}, and you know more champios W or W out mobility ever year after. > > @ instantly delating champions? Yall ever around For AP {{champion:18}} Or AP {{champion:14}} Old {{champion:45}} Several metas we had 1 shot {{champion:7}} Not really something new to see a player get instantly erased in just a few point and clicks. ADC's where not really that class but I remember getting instantly erased in under 5 seconds and doing the same to others for years. > > I know your not talking about Alpha, Cuz TF had TP on a 30 second cd, with no vision, his passive was global crit % for all teammates, his R was a gloabal slow, with global vision on enemys, that made his E have no channel time so he had a global flash. Oh also his Pick a cards, Yellow was tied for best in damage (with red), and it was a 1.5 aoe stun, exactly as big as red cards slow. > > There was a good deal of mobility early league, it grows every year but so does the inmobile champion pool. I'm not going to take you serious or even try to refute anything after seeing you say {{champion:32}} has a dash.
Fine. he has a 1100 unit "gapcloser" on his Q that can be triggered off jungle monsters, champions, minions. I apologies for using Dash as a term to dictate gap closers that are not instantaneous. I guess a Dash for you then is defined as unconditional mobility. In that case then its a good thing YASUO has 0 dashes in his kit then am I right? Here is some Ability detail information on {{champion:32}} I used that likely contributed to my gross misrepresentation for what qualifies as a dash. "Crowd control effects will not prevent {{champion:32}} from **dashing **if they hit him before the skill shot hits. However, the duration of the crowd control can persist the duration of the **dash**. " Thing is, Point and click is also conditional mobility, So If we say that Conditional movement cant be a dash? {{champion:64}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:412}} all have 0 dashes then as they require a target to hit. No doubt here, I bet the community is on your side. Or alternatively I am correct and a conditional dash is still a dash. Regardless please, by all means feel free to use your disagreement in the precise definition of what constitutes as a dash as if it has relevance in a conversation about mobility. Its no doubt completely fair to disregard the fact I further listed a massive # of highly mobile champions. I have no doubt your disagreement over a definition of an ability is unrelated to any inability on your part to refute things I have said. I'm more then happy to keep making fun of you for bitching out of making a decent response and instead you want to nit pick the precise terms for various forms of mobility. Now please mate, Gracefully bow the hell out or actually refute something. Mobility has been in the game, always. You don't have to like me but I am not wrong. Disagree? back it up, other wise shush. Edit. But hey I was being a dick. Here, a full list of [Dashes](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Dash), relevant for poppy mains I guess.
: Season 9 is the last chance to stay relevant; League cannot afford another Colossal Cock Up Cascade!
If they fuck up season 9 I feel all it does is give a window for some other moba to make it to the top. Yet If no one is making a better moba then lol even when riots fucked up, Lol will remain relevant. Frankly the reason Lol dominated was that riot takes risks. If no one else is willing to do so and play it safe all the time its never gonna replace league on its own merit. Blatant Copy pasting Dota All-stars is just not enough for this style of game anymore. It requires fresh gameplay hooks or a really solid champion designer from the ground up.
: Because Zoe mains will have to put up with a roller coaster of balance changes until they gut her completely then evaulate Zoe and make her kit strong again but healthier. Instead they're love tapping her into slowly weak but nothing becomes healthy about her regardless of the nerfs. She needs a hard mechanical update, akin to rek'sai or aatrox.
Lock out on passive. Add a small CD. Increase R duration. Give slower reflex or meh ping players opportunity's to responds and aggressively position onto her recall. Gives slower reflex Zoe players more opportunity's to cast her kit. I feel this change lowers both the skill floor and ceiling. Alone it would be a gross buff, combined with a lock out on passive it would function as a risk in upper mmrs and help higher ping and lower skill players use her kit. W. MS gain is generated by the orbs doing damage rather then instantly. Hits refresh duration. Lower Minion RNG, Add a Stack mechanic to generate minion drops Or just stick it onto cannons exclusively.
: All the problems with Blitz from a gameplay perspective
I was disappointed because I actively hate {{champion:53}} You got my hopes up and dashed them.
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=LeAnime,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FzBRnzpf,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-18T21:11:20.582+0000) > > I know I was > > Lol what a single target melee silence is nothing like a AoE ranged pull > > Garen already used his with the engage > > Garen has dps Darius had instant damage. > > Glad we can have a civil discussion. Hope it was as productive for you as it was for me. It's funny how you would say that a meat pie and a cherry pie are different on the basis of their different fillings, and you will never acknowledge that they ultimately, are both pies. Meanwhile, you would also insist on calling bread and noodles the same thing, on the basis that they are both wheat products. Let it sink in. I'm done. ...... EDIT: I was also talking about the Darius' AA mod slow when comparing with Garen's Q. But ofc, being so intentionally obtuse, you can't do simple compare and contrast. EDIT2: This is not a productive talk. Talking with a wall is more productive than this. Because at least no blatant bullshit comes back in my direction when I talk to it.
I also disagree with you here on the blitz and thresh comparison Sekai. Thresh wants to use his Q to get into a fight, move at enemy team, get into he thick of things where his E and R are a factor. Blitz Q wants to pull targets out of a fight, best case for Blitz is to fog of war Q folks into teammates over terrain. He can get into a fight using his W, but its not ideal for him to do so Self CC and all + R silence is very short, E is single target and requires melee range, Q in a short range is pretty meh as it has no real CC component on it besides displacement, the Blitz q stun duration being 1/3 threshes. The play pattern and windows thresh operate in best are not ideal for blitz. Blitz also has patterns thresh cant copy. I am very vocal in my dislike for blitz, let me make that bias clear. Blitz makes the game feel like a 4 on 5 one way or another. Does badly with his Qs and he is a non factor and its not fun. Lands some Qs and its the strongest displacement on a basic ability in the game... and its strong from level 1 till game ends because of that fact. As long as death timers > q CD he is going to be an issue with out changes to his kit because everything is grossly power budgeted into that Q. Theres a reason support mains see a blitz pick and insta lock some one like {{champion:25}} to counter. Cuz making his Q a weaker factor makes blitz mediocre. Bringing your self and teammates into enemy's is a very different desire then bringing enemy's into you and your team. Its Needing follow up vs Forcing follow up.
: Lantern to forgive your trash adc misplacement ? Hook that lasts for 5 hours ? Cage that slows for 99% ?
Lantern to save adc requires thresh back and away from threats. its of no use as an escape when he is being aggressive, or is close to adc. Also man, A Adc being aggressive when thresh is hanging back and has lantern off cd is not trash placement its understanding your supports kit. A high number of supports who hang behind their adc have the ability to enable safety and aggression from the adc. I mean that's pretty much the entire enchanter class, all do that play pattern. {{champion:267}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:117}} Several champions have point and click or skillshot CC with no windup, bigger hit boxes. Grossly Exaggerating the CC of 1.5 seconds is not gonna convince folks that he is more problematic then others with 2+ second CC ability's that land easier. Slows are an issue? Reacting to your response that uses only 1 accurate number (99% slow) is it fair to assume you also hate Ziliean then? Free GA for ADCS giving them up to MAX hp to forgive Trash misplacement. Large AOE stun that lasts for "5 hours," and does high damage. Point and click 99% slows for 5 fucking seconds! Assuming 1.5 = 5 hours that's like 15+ hours of 99% slows! Free on demand CDR. Oh and he also gives free exp making teammates get a free lead on lanes. Talk about broken right? Oh wait, apparently it turns out the numbers on a champions kit has high impact on its viability. Crazy, whoa think that was important. Edit. What am I wrong? Use the in game numbers if you got a complaint. Inaccurately (5 hours) describing things on paper is just gonna be misleading. I am aware most the time that's intentional.
: Thresh is "popular" because he's overloaded LUL No support can bring both hard engage and hard peel
{{champion:40}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:12}} Hard engages. I assume you mean the ability to start a fight in both lane and late game teamfights Via Hard CC (not slows)? Hard peel, I assume you mean the ability to hard CC a target on your back line? Like... Pretty much any champion then that is a support and has atleast 2 forms of hard CC would work by the standard it appears your judging thresh by. What exactly is it on him that stands out? Hard engage requiring a skill shot to land? Plent of them. Ability to follow up on skillshot landing? Plenty of them. Ability to CC a threat on adc? Plenty of them.
: No CC. Ezreal technically does most of it except the self-peel, jinx does all of it except the dash - still has movespeed though..
Eh Id argue EZ self peels off 1 item pretty well {{item:3025}} .
: People keep misusing words and it irks the hell out of me
When did Inting stop meaning Intentionally feeding. That's the one id like to know. Who the hell was like "oh yea its a catch all phrase for bad playing". Oh mid went 2-3-1 in lane, dude stop inting. I coulda swore it was short hand for folks saying please report Player X for Intentionally feeding and that used to look like 1-5 to 0-10-0 as they clearly make 0 attempt to contest a fight and just walk out to die. Standing still taking auto attacks spamming emotes and /l? Inting. Getting tower dove and killed by a jungler, mid, and Top? Just part of the dam game, visions nice but not everybody can keep it up.
: I think "overloaded" is one of my most hated buzzwords. If a champ's *overloaded* it would mean they have way too many functions in one kit. People just use "overloaded" to start railing on something they dislike with no real intention of arguing the point that they have too many tools.
People need to understand complexity is not a bad thing, more power tied to more conditions can result in less power then lower power on lower conditions. Example, If we removed the MS, the ring, the range extension, some of the damage, and the energy refund on Akali passive . Her passive now its just next auto is empowered when she hits an enemy with abilitys. That would be strictly stronger on her then the current passive owning to the nature of her kit. She can rapidly trigger a simplified passive resulting it the passive that's already lost mobility, range, damage, resource manipulation, needing a further numbers nerf to keep it in line Or a Lock out to prevent combing casts and autos. Blitz Q is the most simple hook in the game. Its also the strongest. Thresh can reactivate his and dash in, Natu can use his for mobility and get a CD, Pyke can slow or charge and hook, all of them have more effects, more uses, more text, and the strongest one still is Blitz who literally just hits hook or misses and gets nothing.
: Make a Classic League of Legend without these Certainlyt overloaded kit.
Honestly... No. {{champion:32}} Dash, Huge AOE Cc. {{champion:53}} Still has the games best single target displacement basic ability in the game, more CC ontop of that. {{champion:9}} Fear used to be 3 seconds. {{champion:79}} Dash, Aoe knockback. {{champion:24}} Dodge was a passive + active, free dodge % always, free stun on triggers as well. Activated aoe stun, with damage. There was also an item for extra dodge % that worked with his passive. good times. Also there was {{champion:54}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:4}}, and you know more champios W or W out mobility ever year after. @ instantly delating champions? Yall ever around For AP {{champion:18}} Or AP {{champion:14}} Old {{champion:45}} Several metas we had 1 shot {{champion:7}} Not really something new to see a player get instantly erased in just a few point and clicks. ADC's where not really that class but I remember getting instantly erased in under 5 seconds and doing the same to others for years. I know your not talking about Alpha, Cuz TF had TP on a 30 second cd, with no vision, his passive was global crit % for all teammates, his R was a gloabal slow, with global vision on enemys, that made his E have no channel time so he had a global flash. Oh also his Pick a cards, Yellow was tied for best in damage (with red), and it was a 1.5 aoe stun, exactly as big as red cards slow. There was a good deal of mobility early league, it grows every year but so does the inmobile champion pool.
Ifneth (NA)
: CertainlyT Making Another Champion
First off Happy or sad about this, as long as the op is not lying this is a dam natural thread. Who the hell downvotes that?
: Who else thinks that Teemo is stupid champion?
https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/community/community-spotlight/birth-evil-teemo
: HAHAHA EKKKSD CLICK TO TARGET BLIND THAT STOPS ALL YOUR DAMAGE!
There is a reason we call Teemo Satan. Ever around when he was a top tier pick? Shrooms used to have a longer shelf life.
: instead of nerfing champions when they become strong in low mmr
This sounds like it would make a good community project. Hell, I might just work on this in my free time for fun as I already record and check footage to see how and where I make mistakes.
: Your Shop is open for business!
I bamboozled Discount bot apparently. go me!
: Riot Ezreal was lead designer
Correct! I was kinda hopeing for a response from OP but hey sall good mate.
: 40+ Games with new Akali
I would recommend you abandon AP heavy builds on her. "Magic's fine, steel's better." Quick breakdown. Passive 39 - 180 (based on level) (+ 90% bonus AD) (+ 70% AP) Also this requires an auto to land so for effective damage you could consider it to be 1.9 Damage AD scaling to .7 ap Q. 25 / 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 (+ 65% AD) (+ 50% AP) W. No damage. E. Both hits combine for 120 / 180 / 240 / 300 / 360 (+ 140% bonus AD) O ap scaling. R. 120 / 180 / 240 (+ 50% bonus AD) First cast, Second cast gets a bit wonky but basically the best case is 300 / 450 / 600 (+ 90% AP) and the worst case is 120 / 180 / 240 (+ 30% AP) Edit. Also worth a mention. Gold Efficiency. It cost about 35 per 1 point of AD, It cost about 22 per 1 point of AP. Her AD ratio is 4.05 Her Ap ratio is a variable range between 1.5 or 2.1
DeltaDan (EUW)
: Nasus is a terribly designed champion
I am curious if you know the Dev who made Nasus and I also kind of want to Blatantly lie and see how many people I can incorrectly get to think it was CT.
ronin99999 (EUNE)
: Okay then, when did my post suddenly shapeshift from a "I want to check whether my proposed balance changes make the game healthier" to a goddamn hate thread? like dude, I srsly outright said that I like his ideas/concepts/designs. i literally praised him for WW rework, and thresh (i forgot abt zyra, she is well designed too) BTW, my post has nothing to do with the META as it is now. they will (or should) always be strong to an extent, because of their high skill cap, but that cannot (should not) come at the cost of another player's gaming experience. tell me honestly, have you ever seen a player say "I love playing against Zoe" unsarcastically??? my only point is that, due to their high skill cap, they should punish mistakes more and reward outplays more. right now it's basically E-Q (knockup) into R, a few crits, and ignite for good measure. my changes aim to give him a clear point(s) in the game where he can be shut down (weak laning phase, but good teamfighting, like a carry, or good laning phase, but cant do much in teamfights.) the problem with the 2nd part is that he was created to be good in teamfights, so i thought, was the good laning phase really necessary?? and to quote you "Learn that champion, seriously its that easy", are you really asking me to let go of my self dignity and play zoe, and oneshot a poor passerby? no thanks. but srsly, the post wasn't made bcos they are CertainlyT champs, it was made to clear the air about all the hate the guy gets. he doesn't even deserve like 10% of it, but he gets it. i made this post so that the people who read the boards will understand it isn't exactly CertainlyT's fault that he gets so much hate. it's the numbers, and a few hidden interactions that just add to an overloaded kit.
Most my response to you is about how to play around Yas. Everything else is directed to everybody else reading and not intended to be treated as a direct comment to you specifically or anything you said. The bit that's bolded and what's below is where that starts. The CT hate is a stupid cycle that's turned into something self sustaining. No other dev has to deal with their designs being treated like its toxic just because it ran a meta or had #s that got oppressive at some point. It does not seem to matter if Thresh is in a good spot now, the fact that he was once a top tier pick will be used in arguments to call him a problem and this holds true for {{champion:122}}. I don't think this is intended to be a I hate CT thread. To date what CT worked on is {{champion:51}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:104}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:429}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:142}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:143}}
: Actually, I've played Morgana against Yasuo in top. I haven't found it that difficult. Granted, I am M7 on her(praise the bae!).
Hence why I am willing to take her into lane vs him. Im saying she is good. Did I word that badly?
: Is there any chance of the black market items from black market brawlers returning in nexus blitz?
Kai Guy (NA)
: To often gameplay boards feel like rubbish. So how to fix it?
1) Fotm Upvote farming. If you Hate on X then you get support. Quality not required. My Issue: Creates Spammy post of low to no quality detracting visibility for quality posts. 2) Disagreement is shown via downvotes rather then comments expressing disagreement and why. My Issue: Creates far to many echo chamber threads. 3) Players only engage with the OP, frequently saying the exact same statement others have made. My issue: Creates Massive clutter in posts. 4) Players don't use numbers in complaints. My issue: Its misleading. Almost anything can be worded to sound OP on paper. With out accounting for the game state there's no real value in a complaint. 5) Unrealistic exaggeration is rewarded. My issue: Promotes Exaggeration. Example Champion X 1 shots me. when champion is using qwer and weaves in 2 autos. LOOK AT HOW BROKEN Y IS!!! Shows a clip of out of context gameplay where 1 player is grossly ahead and others constantly misplay. 6) Low accounting for the differences between tiers of MMR and their gameplay experience. My issue: the game does not play out the same for all skill levels, its a much different experience for players. 7) Balance as a buzzword. My issue: its way to loosely defined, players don't have a set agreement on its definition, its a red herring. The priority in gameplay should be Game health, some of you may use balance as the definition for a healthy game state but others seem to think win% and its proximity to 50% is balance and i feel that's undeniably a awful viewpoint or goal for the games health. 8) There is low to no agreement to disagree. My issue: A refusal to accept that others have different experience is a mistake when trying to have discussions on the experiences of others. 9) Separation of a posts points is rare in responses. My issue: ya don't see folks say oh well your right on X but I disagree with you on Y. Its all or nothing far to often. A single line will get picked out and attacked and any merit in the rest of the post is ignored. I don't really have solutions for most of this besides trying to generate conversation and hope enough regulars here care enough to actively participate and encourage folks to avoid negative behaviors.
Rioter Comments
ronin99999 (EUNE)
: so ur basically asking us to play the champion, understand their ups and downs, and the use that knowledge to counterplay them. Right? ill tell you what wont work there. as I stated, the above analogy works for literally every other champion in the game. IT IS SO GENERIC. when it comes to strengths, they have specific ones( negating all enemy projectiles, taking enemy summoners and active items and turning it against them) but no specific weaknesses. for example, im an immobile mage(any mage) laning against yas. this is basically what happens at lvl3-4 I bait his WW, wait it out, but then he still lives through my full rotation because of flow shield and E. or I play def, wait for jg, and we try and kill him, but he has flash, E, WW, and knockup, and flow shield ready. that is a **huge** no. of tools for a carry champion. or I play def and wait to roam, but he just dashes through my minions, gets escalating E dmg, and the E-Q combo for sure knockup, gets conqueror, and if im still alive, uses ignite for good measure. "make him use ability's badly" you gave this as an example of playing against yasuo in the jungle, well he is a laner most games what do I do then? plus I also said that CT champs success depend on the person playing them, not the opponent. it is really hard for me to make an enemy yasuo use abilities "badly" unless he/she does so by themselves. what can I do if they play well??? that's why I suggested the above decisions. the problem isn't that they require knowledge, its that they have completely overloaded kits. for example one champ has a 2x crit multiplier and a flow shield generated by moving, a low cooldown Q that applies on hit effects and can knockup from long range, a bigass windwall that completely negates every enemy projectile in the game, a low cooldown dash that deals escalating dmg, a low cooldown ult that deals a lot of dmg, grants flow shield, and puts the champ just out of tower range if the target is under tower. this, and the champ can be played in almost any role and go almost any build path depending on whats required. these kinds of champs heavily punish opponent mistakes but at the same time easily forgive the player's mistakes. this is the kind of thing I don't want to play against, because while the enemy can relax and make frequent mistakes, I have to constantly concentrate, be on my toes, and not make even the slightest error, knowing ill die if I did.
So, if my advice is accurate 100% of the time then regardless of how generic you find it how is it not the goddam truth? Any immobile mage vs yas is a lossed lane or game eh? {{champion:45}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:34}} Are all inmobile and im entirely happy to take them into lane vs yas. I have confidence to outplay his kit with their kits in 1v1. My example is not force jungle yas, its to make him contest objective like dragons, or to force him to move to other lanes, mid game yas is not a tower pushing monster, roam and forcing 4v3 fights or a good gank snagging some kills, give your team the opportunity to push objectives, and 4 dudes on a tower are gonna drop it hella faster then yas can. If he sticks around mid, your gonna get more objectives. When I say make him use them badly, its entirely off you as a player. Force him to cast WW to prevent CC, Force him to use firstQ to cs and smack him with a trade he cant win. Don't Gank him and give him a free E to escape. I will admit I worded it poorly, let me be more clear. Its not about him miscasting, its about knowing his kit so that you play in ways the casts he can make at any time are less then ideal. Its the same generic advice that works for any champion, but for some reason are not doing this vs yas. How many times have you see your jungler run in from behind, giving him the ability to E Away from the teammate of said jungle, People engage when theres a fat minion wave rather then when its just 1-2 still up, people throw their entire kit into windwall, people don't break shield when he gives them opportunity's to because omg shield prevents damage why waste an auto! Players constantly show no understanding of what his kit does then show up bitching about how broken it is. This frustrates me. wanna talk about "generic" statements. How about a kit that "this is the kind of thing I don't want to play against, because while the enemy can relax and make frequent mistakes, I have to constantly concentrate, be on my toes, and not make even the slightest error, knowing ill die if I did." have you seen {{champion:53}} One Q lands = death {{champion:164}} One over extension, being alone, = death {{champion:28}} Walks into your lane and gets W off = death {{champion:105}} hits a R = death. Just saying its not a remotely exclusive CT issue, I hate when people act like it is. **Look folks even if you want to completely ignore the above conversation do me a solid and read the below before commenting.** Here is why I care, the CT hate is fucking stupid. Look there is nothing cant be fixed with number changes. Treating him as an exception is flawed, people hold previous iterations of his work up as examples why he is bad, when said champions end up in a decent spot, example{{champion:412}} for both in game balance and impact on game health. Something being problematic does not mean it is a problem for ever. If it was then Colt would be one of the most bitched about Dev in the game as he has created more Meta defining champions who run the game any time they are a strong pick. {{champion:81}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:18}} {{champion:103}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:1}} on top of the fact he was also to blame for creating some of the most hated champions in the game for their impact on gameplay. Its been over 5 years and my least favorite meta is still the Old AP {{champion:14}} for being the most fucking obnoxious mid meta I have ever seen. {{champion:17}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:53}} Yet I will never say he is awful at his job ( I personally enjoy a lot of Colts champions.) history has proven the designs can be fixed to be a more healthy state, that over time any problem is going to be solved one way or another. I never want to see any one say, oh well lets fire Hallam. I don't take to arms any time one of his champions is THE meta, despite the fact ez breaks the game 1-2 times a year or that Protect the Koggle is a game winning strategy the moment he is in the upper levels of viability. Yii gets hate threads every year, Every god dam year, and almost no one even knows the devs that made him. CT interacted with the community and got punished for it. The people who started the bandwagon of fk this dev got rewarded for it. The cycle of complaints about him as a dev typically miss the mark on whats problematic and have low or no quality. Its just upvote farming with no merit to helping people learn to play and thrive vs champions they dislike, with no reason for riot to take any one seriously, and with a overall negative impact on Red to community relations. Im not asking yo to like CT, just focus on being objective in targeting what the issue is, if a number is to high, how to fix a problem, and to not add pointless noise and clutter to conversations. When and If a champion gives you a hard time, Learn that champion, seriously its that easy.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zaghyr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lhwVZyfu,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-15T17:10:51.559+0000) > > Yasuo passive shield is WORSE than Iron Man. It is situational, lasts for 1 second, and can be removed with poke. Iron man gives Mord a much MUCH larger amount of shielding in a drawn-out fight (even if Yasuo ults for a second shield), and it can be gained at almost any point in time. > > His crit passive COULD be better than Tryn, if you look at just that. In reality it's not that impressive considering Yasuo's crits are reduced by 10% and Tryndamere gives himself AD and has higher base AD to begin with. > > His is not better than Irelia's Q. The only advantage his E has on Irelia Q is that it does not require you to kill the target to be able to dash again, or that in some circumstances it grants a little more mobility. Meanwhile Blade Surge does more damage, can be used to clear waves, restores HP, and can be re-casted on the same champion multiple times in quick succession. > > His W is stationary while Braum's can be moved freely. Wind Wall is only better against idiots who blow their entire load into the wall. Yas shield doesn't decay until it absorbs champion damage, and doesn't require dealing damage in order to charge up, Morde usually can't even maintain shield unless he and his ally are sitting in 6 creeps and an enemy champ or two, let alone resist poke. It's the situational shield, not Yasuo's. His double crit doesn't require him loaing HP or having a resource, 10% less is a joke when you have guaranteed crit (that also buffs Q because "balance" reasons). His E costs no mana, doesn't need preparing (multidash on same target can only.be done by landing E), and can be used to go over walls. Makes his Q and ult a lot easier to land too. Both skills can be and are used to clear waves so I do not comprehend why even mention it as something unique to Bladesurge. Lastly, even if there are enemy units nearby, Irelia can not use her Bladesurge for mobility unles she kills the target or the target was marked. His W is MUCH wider than Braum's, and Braum can be CCd and passed by even when he is using it, with Yasuo, your only hope is to move towards and trough the wall (aka towards Yasuo's team, which is the worst place for ranged characters not named Urgot).
Thank you Moonblade for willingly putting yourself forward as a example of the kind of player my post wished to highlight. One with a poor understanding of abilities functionality and low awareness of required counter play to unique mechanics. Your judgment seems to be isolating whats the best case or strongest aspect of a CT champion, then make a comparison to that and disregard the champions best case use of that ability. This is unfair and misleading. Your acting like Morde needs to have a maxed shield going for it to be of value when literally every offensive ability cast from morde adds to his effective health. Yas shields only good when its up, morde shield is always a factor in fights. Yas IS situational because its on or its off, Morde is always on. Lets make this simple. Are you trying to make the claim that at the end of a game Yasuo will mitigate more damage from his passive then Morde? Yes or No. Tryndamer starts the game with 1400 in crits. Yas needs to spend 800 in pure crit items just to catch up with his passive %. They both provide free stats, but please don't do the disservice of acting like they are the same ability or yasuo is inherently superior. Trynd can pick up an {{item:3031}} and its worth up 65% crit chance for him. Yas cant. Please show more awareness to what ability's do and the function the provide when you look at them. Trynda gets level 1 stats till end of game that help with any Ad build order. Yas has to pick up items with no ad stat for his passive to provide any value. Look Pure crit % alone is a meh stat, it needs AD, it needs AS. Acting like Yasuo is advantaged by his % passive when it forces him to invest into % is not a reasonable statement. Trynda has the edge early and mid game, he gets his for free, "but kai he has to get rage generation?" gee golly gosh, being rewarded for complicated things like... autoing.. csing… casting abilitys. What a fucking handicap tryndamere has via rage generation. Really takes his legs out doesn't it. Both champions can hit 100% crits off just 2 items, Tryd can do it with only 1 zeal line. Yas cant, the abilitys have different impacts on the champions so this is also a Bad comparison. So no yas double crit passive is not "strictly better" then Trynda. Irelia can mark champions with R and E. Multiple ones. The very Best case is that Ire can get 11 Q casts off in a combo on exclusively champio, yas cant surpass 5. Look, her Q Mp is negligible for a single cast, she can do a single cast on a target at will, the power in her Q is not the mobility, its the mobility, damage, stacking passive, interactions with other aspects of her kit. REQEQQ is a combo she gets off faster then yas with MUCH less prep then he would need. Yet another intentionally Bias comparison your gonna ignore best case usages only when they do not support your argument. Awesome. Your argument for windwall is once again highlighting that your BAD at dealing with yas, yea it gets wider,but rather then run straight throu the wall mindlessly (Something that is also a bad decision vs braum btw as that's how you get wacked with his passive.) You going to want to make one of 3 decisions. Move up with team, fall back with team, move diagonally so that you can attack around the wind wall. Theres a lot of options available besides Waste your abilitys and autos or rush face first into an enemy team. Wind wall does not make Yas immune to cc, only if it destroys the ability. plenty of folks can CC yas even through wind wall,{{champion:1}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:163}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:90}} to list a few. Lets go back to your first post, what else did you mislead people on. Zoe complaints eh? better then nid Q? Oh? Last I checked that requires a **best case usage **of zoe Q, This requires 2550 units traveled, and its never going to end up farther then 800 units from zoe so your looking at using her other ability's are part of this. It amps by 150% damage Nid q Caps at 200% damage at 1300 units and its max range is 1500. Nid can be father back, single cast, get a better amp. Lets look at a same distance ish cast at level 9. Nid hits a 1350 range Q. 390 damage with 120% Ap. Zoe. Level 9 scaling for per level q damage is 22 + 150 + 60% ap. This ability is amped by distance, at 1350 range this is gonna be 50% amp. This would be 280 damage with 90% HOLY COW BATMAN WHO WOULDA THUNK THAT USING THE BEST CASE OF AN ABILITY THEN COMPARINING OTHERS TO IT SLANTS THE RESULTS OMG WTFWAFFLES! Oh also because it always makes things sound even more broken when you make unfair comparisons that don't list numbers, remember that if she lands a single Q Nidalee also will get 30% movement and Truesight for 4 seconds vs the target she hit and have a enhanced 750 unit gap closer or empower her Execute to be 40% stronger. SO OVERLOADED! (but yet when the numbers are ok nids not a problem in the slightest its only when her stats are to high that her kit becomes an issue, Funny how that works consistently.) In advanced if you wanna add in zoe hitting multiple passives remember that drops her range down to being only 550 units away from a target or she cant auto. Range expansion? No, its not better then Xerath or Varus. Shes always gonna be 800 units or 550 units away from some one. Unless your talking about her E going thru a wall. Then the obvious counter argument is that's more situational then Xer or Var. Being closer to a threat is a risk. Always, that simple. So simply put its not superior to increasing your range when your increasing your risk. Once again Biased comparisons, keep up the good work. Honestly your gonna generate a lot more upvotes then me looking at the game telling people how things are. Ziggs was my first dedicated main but yes I have to agree that Zoe passive overall is stronger then Ziggs. Ziggs is gated behind level 13. Comparison of the two. 76 damage with 20% ap scaling for Zoe, Ziggs 100 damage with 50% ap, Ziggs can get about 3 casts off best case using his entire kit. Zoe can get 4 (Qx2 E and R) or more depending on W. Ziggs does do double damage to Towers, but Zoe again can still chain casts off. Most of the time that ziggs passives gonna outdo zoe is vs a tower, otherwise the lack of a CD on Zoe is gonna outshine him in fights. This is the most fair claim you have in calling an ability strictly better. I can create situations ziggs is better but its pretty nit picky to do so. Point goes to the WW main. @kali comment, Yet Twitch entire kit sets expunge up, W applies aoe stacks, R applies aoe stacks and allows much safe range to apply them, Q gives AS which hey helps him apply stacks. Don't just yank ability's out of context when it suits you, be accurate to the game state. Stop making comparisons off a best case for the ability's you don't like and trying to show why everything else falls short. Also your TLDR, you realize my comment is that High skill caps should be rewarded over low skill caps as a rule, this is for all devs not just CT. I thought I was fairly clear, I will try to be even more transparent. I am not making a claim that all CT champs are high skill cap, fuck man my entire points built around the fact most the issues related to his champs are unique mechanics, That many issues come from player knowledge, not skill cap. Hell I listed 5 champions off as fairly easy to pick up even when not played at a best case.
ronin99999 (EUNE)
: CertainlyT Champions
I wont deny that there is merit that a lot of CT champs have mechanics that allow for them to overcome weaknesses and that that this is lacking in several other champions kits. Yet a lot of the way players chose to deal with this typically shows no understanding of said champions kits. Examples, Blowing your entire kit into windwall? That's a misplay. Calling Zoe R Mobility? Its not, its a range extension. Only her W provides mobility. Claiming that you cant see Akali under towers? or that shes Tower immune? Fucking hell man that's just Inaccurate. The issue as far as I can tell the issue consistantly is that you have to have a good understanding of his champions to properly out play them. Its a cop out in so many cases to claim OMG COMPLEX = OVERLOADED. In almost every ability simplification would make it stronger. If yas could just R any one with out the knock up? even if we reduced it ranges, removed it resetting his shield, got rid of some of the pen or damage, he would still be stronger because a point and click CC is a solid ability on any one. If akali passive did not give Ms, had no ring, had no range extension, all it did was enhance an auto after hitting an ability? That would be stronger. If thresh Q was just a Copy and paste blitz q? That would be stronger. I'm not trying to say his champions don't have to much in their kits, that's a conversation that can and should happen on a case to case baises, but what I want to say is just that the misconception that something complicated is better is overall an awful viewpoint.Complexity does not always make for overloaded. If complexity is done to provide checks and balances and requires player input and skill expression to hit a best case its usually less powerful then an similar simplification. Reliability is a strength for a champions kit. I feel the biggest issue is that CT does not make champions excessively friendly to casual players. To outplay Most of CT champions yo have to have a decent understanding of their kit, of their windows, of what is a threat. If you don't understand that minions are key to yas mobility, or that you want to break his shield when he trys to cs with an auto befor blowing a combo on him, or you probably shouldn't Blow your entire load as a mage who he can WW. Your gonna have a fucking bad time. If you force fights in jungles, make him use ability's badly, or can target where he is going to go at the end of his dash with a skill, then he is easyer to deal with. You cant just know your champion well, you need to understand the opponents options. Do you know hands down what the easiest time to land a skill shot CC on new akali? Its after she recasts E to dash at you, 100% straight line from her location to your face, freaking hard to miss given that her E is broadcasts in 2 casts. On the whole this shouldn't be to difficult of a mechanic to pick up, after playing her a lot how often do I see this? almost never. Overall Its easy to win a lane when its, oh yea I out range them and just need to hit my E before they hit their W. Its harder when its reactionary to the opponent, like say I need to just hit my E after they dash off a minion. Look, A high skillcap champions best case usage should ALWAYS out scale a low cap champion. Not to say that simple champions shouldn't sometimes be a good hard counter or good matchup but if what your banking on in your pick is reliability well there needs to be a reason to play unreliable champions. In this regard I want to say that I don't actually feel CT makes the highest skill cap champions. Now many of them do have high caps, but a lot of them are pretty straightforward to pick up and play well even before you fully master their kits.( {{champion:122}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:142}} {{champion:19}} ) . The thing is most of them stand out, almost always its a unique kit, it requires players to have an understanding of new mechanics. I don't feel this is bad, but it does require players to adapt and learn. This is not something every player wants to do, infact many refuse to. I don't want to throw shade at OTP players, but there's a world of difference between OTP who learn the game and know matchups and interactions vs the OTP AND THRE REST OF THE GOD DAMM GAME (teammates fucking matter yo) Compared to many who just blindly picks their main every fucking game with no care about synergy or matchups and still expects to be rewarded? Look this last example... that player sucks, screw them. Whelp that's my rant. If you took the time thanks, if not meh.
: Can we make it easier to play new/reworked champs
Use custom games. Make a Recruitment thread to get some random folks for scrims and rotate who gets to test stuff. Best fixes I can think of that don't involve riot intervention.
: Do you think Zoe needs a rework? As sad as that sounds.
I don't see much that cant be fixed with some number tweaks. Add a Cd to her passive so she cant chain casts for high burst . Make W drops less rng, let it drop off cannons or a stacking mechanic related to last hits or minion deaths. Despite complaints, EQ is not really the issue as many mages have the same amount of CC and burst on landing combos. Keep the 2 ability wombo in line with others and its fine. Make R have a longer delay when she uses it before she blinks back enabling folks to deal more damage when shes up front. Most the issues I see are folks don't respect her from fog of war, folks don't respect the passive, folks don't understand how W works, fools wont body block her Q for their Squishy carry's and she gets to hit them with WAAMO Q's . She gets compared to the old ap nid all the fucking time but she is not nearly as obnoxious as old nid. More reaction time on zoe casts the q is much more telegraphed with 2 audio qs and a visual if shes using R (in most cases), less mobility, less healing, no buggy Invisible Qs.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YgMj80LP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-08-14T23:16:56.330+0000) > > I like this post and sadly don't have time. I will be back later to edit this, but my 2cents. Worst design currently -> {{champion:53}} -> A example of better mechanic's -> {{champion:412}} Blitz is not that bad imo. He would be a 5/10. His Q is a skillshot wich varies depending on his right arm position and stops in minions and his W slows him down after use so you have to think a little about it. Thresh is a good example of well designed support tho. Soul recolection, skillshot with delay, lantern to save allies wich has limited range and an E wich can be used in various different ways.
Here is my beef with blitz. His Q is Stupidly strong when it lands well right. It is still the single strongest displacement ability in the game on a basic ability, its arguably the strongest even when we consider most ultis. It has no delay on cast, its a good travel time, good sized hit box, does not care about walls, does not put him at risk on a miss, and no number changes to anything besides significant nerfs to its CD or Range remove the power from it. A blitz Q with 0 items late game is pretty much just as lethal as a 6 item blitz. From level 1 till the end of the game one hook can result in instant 1v5 death from fog of war. Then theres the rest of his kit which is completely budgeted around his Q. W gives MS, this can be to rush in and pressure with E, then Q if they try to use mobiity or SS, He does not need to trigger his E in advance, the moment he is in range for autos it is when a good blitz casts it, or they hold it for once the hit the Q. Due to the way autos work, its pretty much un-dodgable unless you have abiltiys like fizz or vlad, blinks dashes bard tunnel? to bad E is on the auto your getting knocked up. The vast majority of champions have no way to interact with this, especially if he Uses his R correctly to apply silence. This is my issue, More then any other champion in the game I feel blitz completely dictates how players have to interact with him, you have to respect the Q. From game start to game end, At no point does it not present a high threat, his build can suck, his aim can suck, but that Q is always gonna CD faster then a Death timer. So its a 4 v 5 always, blitz is usless cant do anything his team suffers, this is why more then any other champion you see mains in the role he plays (support) Ignore their mains to play one of his counters, Insta lock blitz and watch how many folks will run {{champion:25}} or something{{champion:12}} {{champion:89}} or any other champions in the meta that do well vs him. He hits the dam hook correctly and some one is fucked as he has the best single target CC on a basic ability in the game, as well as more CC, and the tools to get to the position to use both. His designe to me is trash because I have lost so many games to blitz players over the years (s1 player) not because they are good, many of them they did not help lane at all, the wiffed 9 out of 10 Q. But cuz late game that guy managed to fog of war hit 1 Q on a key teammate and our comp fell apart during greyscreen. Its not that there is no counter play, its not that its OMG WTF BBQ ALWAYS OP, its that it gives him the ability to make game changing impact off luck, off spaming one ability over and over and over until it hits, or being counter picked and hardly worth anything for his team. Blitz does nothing and his team loses, blitz does next to nothing but might make a game changing play regardless of gold or exp, Blitz player is fucking annoyingly good and destroys lane. That's all I ever see from him and I hate it. I don't even need to go into details on why I hate a good blitz in a lane that's not built to be countering him. That's a separate issue, but the argument that minions matter in lane phase is not reflective of what a good blitz player does and only applys to baddies. thresh has a strong Q, with mobility options, he has 2 aoe CC, he can save teammates or give them the ability to ignore walls, yet over all he is in a much more manageable state, his designe is better, because his hook wont pull folks to him and out of position point blank. That one change alone is enough to make his hook less oppressive then blitz
: Well and bad designed champions in the game. Tell your opinion!
I like this post and sadly don't have time. I will be back later to edit this, but my 2cents. Worst design currently -> {{champion:53}} -> A example of better mechanic's -> {{champion:412}}
: AURELION SOL - Should not have an AA
{{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}{{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} {{sticker:sg-ahri-3}}
GankLord (NA)
: Akali's Kit is overloaded
I think the issue is people consider complexity = Overloaded. We could rework her passive to be less complex. Like for example If we remove the ring, Remove the MS, Remove the range, Make the passive so that its just damage and it triggers on hitting champions with an ability. This ability is much less "loaded" as far as many players consider and yet its also stronger on her in almost every situation. No ms, no range, no mini game to deal with, but its better for her as she can just rush EQRQ and easily get 4 triggers. Simple can be strong. Almost every ability in her kit I like the odd mechanics. Really I enjoy how the kit it built so that almost every mechanic in it is done to require good player mechanics for it to be a reward. Bad positioning? passive is subpar, you dont see slows on your Q, E will push you into threats or away from being a threat. Bad energy management? sustain is hurt. Early game, lane clear is nerfed. Want a longer duration cloak? Need to give folks indication on where you are and to throw skillshots or aoe. Wanna execute? Prep it with a clear indicator your trying to kill some one off. Nothing in her new kit cant be fixed with some number tweaks. E to strong? lower the recast window. R not giving folks enough reaction time? Up the Lock out between casts. Literally anything problematic is fixable with no need to dramatically alter a abilitys function. And im sick of this BS that towers are usless vs her W. Look you get vision on where to hit her, towers show a shadow of her, you can use this to stay Out of her ability range, or to land an ability of your own, she breaks stealth? bam she gets hit by tower. If your complaining because she has pushed a minion wave up to your tower then cast w? well kudos, literally every other champion in the game will have 0 tower aggro when there is a god dam wave pushing it.
: Yeah, in 20 or so champions thats the 1 he nailed. Good to have a worker that does its job right 1/20 times {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
Ct has worked on 11 champions. Also {{champion:412}} at the very least should be considered solid. good # of folks seem to really like {{champion:122}} and he is not in a bad nor overwhelming spot currently. So we got 2 hated champions of {{champion:142}} and {{champion:157}} generating mad tilt over their kits. {{champion:82}} and {{champion:429}} sitting in a gutter {{champion:19}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:104}} sitting in various states of meh, ok, good, and strong.
Glîtchy (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z5Zv8gq8,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2018-08-13T18:18:20.673+0000) > > uh.... barrel tossing ways? Gp used to shoot his minions then just fired off rounds into the air. what barrels? I threw that in there to see if anyone caught that cause I've seen people insist he had it before his rework.
Ah, odd. Well... Screw it I will take you at your word on this.
Glîtchy (NA)
: upvoted solely because of title, now I want to upvote again because the text within the post. EDIT: the definitely need to keep doing more reworks like Nunu, I mean over all the reworks I've seen {{champion:20}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:41}} and {{champion:83}} all kept their original identities because they maintained each of their iconic pieces in their kits, Yorick kept his ghouls, Evelynn kept her succubus like appearance/approach and definitely lives up to it now, Gangplank kept his orange loving, global ulting ways, WW now feels more like a wolf, and Nunu has the more childlike carefree/fun loving demeanor now, while champs who feel like they've been removed completely and replaced are {{champion:84}} {{champion:266}} and {{champion:6}} tho let's face it no one would've cared if they removed urgot instead of reworked him.
uh.... barrel tossing ways? Gp used to shoot his minions then just fired off rounds into the air. what barrels?
: https://i.imgur.com/xH7SRUQ.png?nodirect I agree, more reworks like {{champion:20}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:19}} , and less like those of {{champion:266}} {{champion:84}} .
Im gonna warn you in advanced that Ct did {{champion:19}} rework.
: I'd always thought Glorious Capsules were useless...
I did not know this. Well Glorius caps are better then I though as well then.
Kamille W (EUW)
: Real talk, bruiser-ish Akali is it broken?
I do {{item:3078}} {{item:3748}} on her for my core and usualy go ad heavy builds. Her ap scaling is only on q passive and the 2nd cast of R. I see no reason to try to stack AP on her, to trigger passive you need to land an auto, your Q has better AD then AP scaling , your E is only AD scaling. Still not seeing why everbody and their dog goes AP.
: Ghostcrawler Lane Swap / Queue Dodge / Whatever
Im a bit late to the party but GLFH. Its been my hope that yall end up making a game that crosses Moba and Stratagy gameplay. Though my $ is still on a strategy game cuz 1. Well frankly You and Aoe. 2. The way lore was done for Swain and the Shrumia events. Feels like its a set up for factions and unit types.
: Bard is going to be nerfed so hard next patch...
Bard never needs to give a fuck about #s unless it relates to CD or CC duration. E remains good always, R remains good, always. Long as Q can lock down folks for a reasonable time he will be a viable pick as at any point he can turn a 5v5 into 1 sided fights like a 1 v 5 or 2 v 5 and/or force SS.
Nhifu (NA)
: There can be a challenger in any rank with any champion, doesn't mean they are good. His duo could just be simply abusing a champ and climb with him. Have your support keep bottom alive, while you go for rift and solo lane kills or tower first blood is an easy strategy to pull off. Your argument is literally "X champ is in challenger he's okay" When in reality barely 3-5% of the playerbase is in challenger. He could easily have climbed with another champion, and just felt like randomly playing Ivern also.
"There can be a challenger in any rank with any champion" Hold the phone. there can only be challenger in challenger. A smurf account in bronze is a bronze account, regardless of the player skill or champion pick. A dedicated champion on a account in challenger is only place you see them in challenger. If not it would be a different rank, if there is no one doing it then that champion is not being mained there.
Verxint (NA)
: Still none of that has to do with 50% win rate. In a pvp game, 50% is the only useful thing to set the matchmaking and MMR algorithms to. Whether or not the matchmaker actually succeeds is execution and available data
Oh no doubt its the superior system. theres folks who are like PREFORMANCE > WINS but that's so stupid, it rewards playing for stats over winning and allows for people to selfishly fuck their teammates over and lose games to climb ladder. Then theres folks who are like Well fine performance + wins = climb... which is just adding extra steps cuz your still going to have to fucking win games and the exact influence on a match can be a wide range of things. champion to champion values and impact, or folks who do meh all game but win the fucking match of one clutch play. Extra steps require way more work and don't actually change the fact you still have to win? Garbage if you apply basic logic far as I can see. Again, All star days matchmaker was shit, Riots system works, but folks would rather blame a rigged matchmaker or OMG COIN FLIP CUZ TEAMMATES IN A TEAM GAME. There are not better alternatives, if there was it would be used. and honestly rigged matchmaker? the system has to proactively search and make matches to get its end result... the same result that elo systems get pretty close to if left alone to work as intended. Guess cuz a lot of humans are silly enough to consider 3-4 games as a "streak" when its of almost no statistical relevance when your lookin at a system that reasonably requires 100+ games to place you if your not near the skill MMR it starts you at.
: She breaks steal for .65 seconds. Do you understand how fast that is? Even if I point and click root her she will simply go back into stealth while extending her stealth duration by .5 seconds. I play Ryze so let me set up a scenario. She is diving me, I am under tower. I try to root her, but I cannot click on her. If I do manage to root her she simply goes back to invis. If I try to run away she can click R and go back into invis. What am I supposed to do? Run back to my tier 2 turret any time she has her shroud up?
Throw Q for damage, kite back. Move so that she is not able to damage you and remain near her minions. Hopefully your using smart cast, spam W constantly at the area she is in, again you need to position so she cant hide in her minions. Land the W when she breaks stealth because your constantly imputing invalid commands until the second its able to target her, Throw out another Q. If she has a minion wave I guess whats left as an option is You can try to stack Runes for the Q shield to midigate some damage but your gonna need to hit minions with E casts. Ideally your not gonna want to be in a position she can stay in minons for safety and still damage you. Try to take advantage of her short range to position her away from safty. Honestly unrelated to akali I wouldn't recommend Ryze ranked if your not duoing or in flex. People don't take advantage of his R, and that sucks a lot cuz you could cast it fucking flawlessly 100% of the time it wont matter if your teammates derp. Also kinda feels like he just has a lot of awfull matchups . Overall as ryze don't bother fighting her in shroud, it will interfere with your ability to combo well, when she lands the E on you Open with a Q when she is dashing in and try to get the EW off befor she connects with you. Shes gonna have passive, W, Q, trigger passive, then might R if your low, passive Q R and kill ya. If you don't use smart cast, you should. At the very least use smart with indicators, I like being able to hold and aim abilitys, but a single key input to spell cast will SAVE YOUR ASS IN FIGHTS! Its pretty easy to land point and click on akali with smart casts point when shes under vision that gives you indicator of where she is at, just spam the ability until she breaks it. Don't make it a reaction game, be prepared in advanced, constantly throw down that CC so it will hit the moment she becomes a target. Edit. Also I think morde does a good job fucking her up in lane and can feel really oppressive for her. If your looking for a pocket counter that's been mine and im not that great of a morde.
: It may have something to do with that. Before the introduction of Primary and Secondary preferred roles for ranked queues. it was CRUCIAL to how to play each role effectively and relatively comfortably in the event someone called a preferred role before you. Otherwise you'd have to dodge and halt your progress, especially if you were to get back into queue to find out you were last to call your role again. Additionally the initial reaction to calling roles in lobby, in way, instantiates communication between your teammates in order to draft an appropriate and most likely winning team composition. With the current system it is way way way way way easier to secure a role and not have to worry so much as to fill a tertiary role you could play. But with it I guess it would be safe to assume is that the reliance of these preferred roles selection before queuing has players neglecting the perks of learning other roles and champs.
My advice for players struggling VS a champion has remaind the same for a long time. PLAY THEM. You learn first hand what makes them strong, when they get strong, what items work, what items power spike, and you get to see first hand what other players do to fuck your day up.
Mimlan (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Verxint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EPMEQA1c,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-12T03:04:42.027+0000) > > First off, 50% win rate is the most sensible way to design a matchmaking system and saying that it's the problem shows that you have no clue how the system uses statistics to make descisions > > Second, as it is now the people without humility have even less consequences. The people who didn't learn how to play games where they weren't the superstar usually fell to a horrible rank because they had a solid, at least 50% chance of getting a suboptimal role and having to anchor on their teammates. Now, one of those players can go game after game attempting to be the superstar and be given their desired role most of the time. > > Third, the game should force you to experience the different roles. For one, there was more understanding between roles back then. While flaming was worse, people actually on average knew what the other roles had in mind. Now we have laners that have literally never had to jungle and don't understand how to play around their jungler. You have junglers who have never played top and don't realize how opportunities work in that lane. Forcing players to have an expansive knowledge to succeed in the ranked environment is better for everyone. > > The short term satisfaction of getting what you want all the time just isnt worth it in the long run. Expecting competitive players to have a comprehensive knowledge of the basics of every role is not particularly excessive or demanding. As I am a quite new player, I haven't experienced the old system of champ select, but I assume it was similar to blind pick? A problem that at least I experience with blind pick is that my laptop is so slow that I am always the last person to load into champ select, and therefore never gets to choose but have to take whatever role is left. I think you are making a good point that people now only have to learn one role, meaning they don't get an understanding of the roles the rest of their team are playing. For every good player it should be a priority to get to know the different roles, since it is a team game. But a system where the fastest gets to choose would be unfair.
Well not quite. The way it worked was pick order > call order.To give context to ya, You know how in draft on each team there are players that pick first and players that pick later? the player who gets to pick first has priority on what position they wanted until last pick. You could try asking for a position but who ever picked before you was entirely allowed to ignore it. Most players knew multiple roles, but some did not. Youd get teams where 3-5 players all mained the same role, so on occasion you would see 40% to 80% of your team being what would now be called "autofilled" So if your last pick on your team? your support. Also support was a nerfed role, you where a ward slave. No trinkets, wards cost $, your usually the only one on your team responsible for vision. Your support line items? Garbage. You had to save up and buy gold per 5 items, no quests, no interaction, not an option level 1. Also utility scaling? not a thing. Nami now has AP scaling that makes her passive give more MS, or a higher Slow etc. This is utility scaling. Back in the day it was not a thing on most champions. There was a meme back then of MID OR I FEED. only it want really a meme it was shit that happened, people would try to hold you hostage to give them their role or theyd throw games. Then they would throw said game. What sucked is it kinda worked so a lot of folks did it and youd get games with OR I FEED players, multiple ones, guaranteeing that you'd have bs like duo mid, or a feeder.
Verxint (NA)
: First off, 50% win rate is the most sensible way to design a matchmaking system and saying that it's the problem shows that you have no clue how the system uses statistics to make descisions Second, as it is now the people without humility have even less consequences. The people who didn't learn how to play games where they weren't the superstar usually fell to a horrible rank because they had a solid, at least 50% chance of getting a suboptimal role and having to anchor on their teammates. Now, one of those players can go game after game attempting to be the superstar and be given their desired role most of the time. Third, the game should force you to experience the different roles. For one, there was more understanding between roles back then. While flaming was worse, people actually on average knew what the other roles had in mind. Now we have laners that have literally never had to jungle and don't understand how to play around their jungler. You have junglers who have never played top and don't realize how opportunities work in that lane. Forcing players to have an expansive knowledge to succeed in the ranked environment is better for everyone. The short term satisfaction of getting what you want all the time just isnt worth it in the long run. Expecting competitive players to have a comprehensive knowledge of the basics of every role is not particularly excessive or demanding.
The only issue with 50% win rate as a matchmaking system for me is that people are stupid and seem to think a elo system designed to make fair games on paper can some how magically make all games into fair games with a low sample size of data in a highly variable environment. Otherwise as a Dota Allstars player from back in wc3 days Yea Matchmaker for riot is hands down better then custom games Hope to god its not a pub stomp or scrub team situation. Yall wanna talk about tilting matches oh man.
Cansema (NA)
: Disagree. Role queue stream lined the "who goes where" and helped to reduce argument. Honestly i have seen less toxic behavior in champ select now. Middle ground on your 2nd comment.. i think Riot tries to help people succeed by stacking stronger players with weaker players and they want everyone on a 50% win rate.. also feel they try to optimize the choices so players have less options almost forcing players to play a certain way. but they dont openly say what / how they want their players to play... they do on the other hand incentives people for playing certain ways while punishing them in other options.
This comments a good spot to interrupt. @ cansema and @ Verxint Please share how you feel about auto fill and the players who refuse to deal with it as they wont learn champions for the most common fill positions?
: really tired of Akali using shroud to stall under tower while free farming and extending shroud time
" ME under MY tower with no way for me to interact with her" Oh so you have 0 Aoe abilitys? no skill shots? Cant use a point and click ability when she breaks stealth, the one that towers will help track location on? What champion do you play exactly?
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Kai Guy

Level 94 (NA)
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