: Wukong Update- Progress Report!
Wait why is Wu Kong on the champs to ruin list?
Cawen (NA)
: Too Much Too Soon---Message to Riot
I don't think it's a matter of changing too fast. Season 3 to 4 brought some really big changes. Most seasons I've been here for brought big changes in fact. But those changes were fun and didn't really harm any group of players in the process. Season 6 has just been a bunch of sacrificial changes with very little in return. * Fun aspects of gameplay sacrificed for a particular gameplay style vision. * Solo players sacrificed for dynamic queue. * Game modes sacrificed for design resources/arbitrary reasons. * Champion playstyles sacrificed for the sake of changing them. None of these are anything but arbitrary change for the player and short term positive change for Riot. The keyword for season 6 has been "alienating".
: Except people are quitting. What? Take for example some of us who are top 100 most played NA. Like I have over 20-25k games played. I haven't played this game actively in the last 5 months and neither have the others who enjoyed this game so much for the first 4 seasons. I've pretty much quit and log in to play a game or two here and there to see if the game has changed enough for me to come back. So many people have quit this game and that is why Riot has been cutting resources and trying to bring back the feel of the game. When they push this amount of content and keep trying to make huge changes it's because they are seeing a dip in players. The boxes were a way to keep players attached in to a "grind/reward" tactic. I don't enjoy the way this game has changed. Solo impact has been nerfed into the ground, individual skill has less of an impact on lane phase, and now champion select is winning games. This is not the league of legends I enjoyed so much back in the earlier seasons. I play one game and I'm disappointed beyond believe in the current balance of the game. I'm disgusted by the player base. You say "you aren't quitting" but you do realize there is a lot of people who aren't saying they are quitting but are actually quitting. I get what you are trying to say but you are really pushing attention away from the real issue with the game in its current state and it's having a huge impact.
> The boxes were a way to keep players attached in to a "grind/reward" tactic. And a pretty crappy one. I forgot about them for a while till I read this.
: You're not quitting League.
> League of Black Cleaver anyone? Wasn't here. > Kassadin being 90+% ban rate for almost two seasons? Didn't bother me, he wasn't strong in the hands of the people who picked him cause he wasn't banned anyway. > Renekton being an unstoppable force for who knows how long? He's like Zed to me. Set a standard for the lane and also happens to be trash in the worst hands and trash againt the best hands, leaving him as a meta definer for the decent but not extremely competent. A.K.A. Plat V - Diamond I Sub 75LP > There were balance issues back then too. And we're always going to have balance issues. The balance issues were on a champion to champion basis and didn't warp the feeling of every match. > Dynamic Q isn't all that great. Big understatement. Progression is a good 65-75% of what makes a PvP game interesting. The feeling of becoming better than the competition and proving it. Dynamic Q removes all motivation to progress, meaning the game has to stand on the gameplay alone, which is based around intentional imbalance. Intentional imbalance is interesting since it feel good to progress through adapting to the changes, but immensely frustrating if your only reason to play is for enjoyment. It really has a huge impact on whether it's worth it to devote time to playing the game. > And maybe you are going to stop. Maybe you really are going to uninstall. League takes way too much time to install to uninstall it. Just leaving it there until solo queue or old Malzahar returns. Though, solo queue will get more playtime than just a revert on some smaller scale stupidity. > You'll hear of a new champion. Riot peaked on Jhin. > A new item. lol? > A new balance change. You'll see how the meta is shifting. You'll notice how people are talking about how the new patch is better. Or how fun the new champion is. Or you'll notice that a few new champions are being reworked. Something is going to bring you back. Yeah, no. > League is part of our lives now. We love the game. No doubt, I will always argue that League of Legends is a game that can fulfill so many aspects that game genres can fulfill in one game. However, a jack of all trades can easily lose out to a specialist when the overall quality can no longer make it win out. > We love the characters Man, let me tell you. Me and my friend played this game together from the low levels. We spent so much time with our Nasus, Malzahar, Cassiopeia and Varus. Those champs really felt amazing to play. Nasus for his voice and wise quotes and overall cool feel. Malzahar for his chaotic AoE, DoT and kiting to demise. Cassiopeia for taking that AoE/DoT aspect of Malzahar and dialing it up. Varus cause he's a damn badass. ---- Nasus lost his appeal with the update somehow. He's still great but not the same. Not a big deal. Cassiopeia was killed while I was on a break playing another game. Came back to a mess, heard of a fix to the mess, got a bigger mess. Varus is as cool as always, but maximum effort every game to combat the mobility creep can be exhausting. And Malzahar is dead. Not just a different feel like Nasus, not a slightly recognizable mess like Cass, not just somewhat difficult to use in the meta like Varus. He is dead. And as there's very little to make league worth playing now, it feels fitting to stop playing with the death of the champ I came to love the game with. ---- On another note, guess which game mode I originally played for? Hint, it's most recent balance change was an item name change {{item:3348}} But that's just a small straw here. It'll always be more fun than 5v5 for me regardless of it being ignored. But wait, where can people go to pick a champ with a 92% ban rate with a more reasonable chance than 5v5 blind pick? Well there goes that.
: Chances are it will be preserved actually, they tried to rework his kit once and scrapped the idea for the sole reason of "it didn't feel like Shaco". Shaco doesn't cause problems at high MMR, because at high MMR is a purely skill-based matchup, he causes problems at low MMR where literally everything but Urgot, Yorick, and maybe Galio cause problems, and they only don't cause problems because they aren't played enough for people to complain about them. Shaco's Q has counterplay, wards (which you get for free now), can help, but even without them you can see the animation through any vision hampering affect including fog of war. Shaco is a niche pick, and the truest assassin of the bunch, maybe tied with Twitch, Evelyn, and Talon. Notice what the common point is? Stealth. With the exception of Talon, no point/click gap closers, no dashes, they don't just appear and mash every button and you die and then teleport halfway across the map back to their starting point. They have to make choices and weigh options, the new assassins just have to do some math on if they will be CC'd long enough, or if their target can outright kill them back before they combo and bail. Assassins as a role in most games are very good at getting in and eliminating a key target, but then they're on their own to find a way out again. I would rather fight a team of Diamond ranked Shacos on my own than fight any other assassin that is popular in the meta right now. Stick every high ranked Shaco main in the world on the same team and I'll fight them all and be less frustrated than I am fighting just 1 half-decent Zed player, or Yasuo player, or Fizz player.
> Chances are it will be preserved actually, they tried to rework his kit once and scrapped the idea for the sole reason of "it didn't feel like Shaco". {{champion:69}} {{champion:90}} I lack faith in Riot. > Shaco's Q has counterplay, wards (which you get for free now), can help, but even without them you can see the animation through any vision hampering affect including fog of war. This is the kind of thing I was mentioning above. Counterplay, based on burden of knowledge. The general counter to Shaco is experience. And Riot is more than ever, heavily pushing towards dumbing down the game/champions for a younger casual audience. > I would rather fight a team of Diamond ranked Shacos on my own than fight any other assassin that is popular in the meta right now. I know you're just exaggerating, but 1. Regardless of the assassin, you'd lose. 2. You wouldn't say that if you were new to the game which is why there's potential that Shaco could be deleted if/when he gets his rework. Nothing is safe from Season 6 Riot.
Aeszarck (NA)
: Well, it makes you happier. You're playing the game because it makes you happy and you value your emotional state. If there was no gain from playing the game, you wouldn't be doing it.
As a PvP game, it has a certain level of stress to it. The fun involved should balance that out. Now, playing a game you are either relieving boredom stress or frustration stress. I'm from the boredom ship. The goal is relief through replacement with the fun, with a byproduct of some frustration seeping in. If the boredom is replaced with 8-2 Fun/Frustration, that is fine. But is currently at around 4-6, which is why I haven't even logged in today. Now, I can identify that and break it off, but like drugs and abusive relationships, many will play even they get no net gain from it. So, not counting me. > If there was no gain from playing the game, you wouldn't be doing it. Is not a true statement.
: What makes Kindred so overbearing is the fact that she can out duel almost anybody early game while
MXXXXXL (NA)
: How About A Support Class Rework At The End Of The Season?
Assassin first. They have a lot more cases of purely binary champions with no reasons for picking them outside current biggest stick. Support is actually in a decent spot for the most part. The thing is, most people don't identify being the man with being the assistant, so support is innately going to be picked less. It also limits your champion pool greatly, so another innate reason not to chose. You have to build certain items, rather than a "full" 3 item core by the mid game, another innate reason to not play it. Now all that means, if you pick support secondary, you'll likely get support most of the time. If you play it secondary, you aren't going to want it all the time. Therefore, you stop picking it altogether. Others who play it secondary, but enjoyed it enough to be fine with getting most of the time, but are now getting it every single time will follow suit and stop picking it, leaving support mains and bored people who want a faster queue picking it. The role of support in general is always going to be less fun for the general audience. Especially now that Ranked play is highly casual and people who are entering the queues will probably not care about the importance of the role, since they're in it to have fun. Personally, this season when I wanted a quick win streak, I'd pick support. But with dynamic queue, support is even far less desirable as you're likely to end up supporting for a premade which consists of 2-3 very poor players and 1 smurf/decent player who likely isn't your adc for some reason. Meaning you have to hard carry 3 lanes plus a jungle with welfare income as opposed to just hard carrying your lane and then rotating with welfare income.
: > [{quoted}](name=A Lovely Whisper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPEH5NGh,comment-id=00230000000000000000000000020001,timestamp=2016-05-12T17:55:11.634+0000) > > I may be wrong. > > But, I believe they said they'd try to preserve support, but it wasn't the focus. > > Sensibly so, as it's specifically a mage update and Zyra only fell into support because she was lacking as a mage. iirc: {{champion:63}} : Mainly mid, flex sup {{champion:143}} : Mainly sup, flex mid That's if my memory serves.
Checked, you are correct. Kind of sad though. Should have focused on mid as she'd still work equally as before in support with the above changes for example.
Frostmane (EUW)
: There is 0 Point playing Ranked at the moment...
There is technically zero point in playing, period.
: > [{quoted}](name=A Lovely Whisper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPEH5NGh,comment-id=002300000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-12T06:43:33.862+0000) > > Two simple tweaks would have been fine. > > Passive - Allow her to generate additional seeds by klling or assisting in killing a unit at a rate below 1 per enemy slain. > > Let's say > > * 1.5 per 24 units killed early game -- 1 extra after 3 waves. > * 3 per 24 by mid game -- 2 extra after 3 waves. > * 4.5 per 24 by late game -- 3 extra after 3 waves. > * 6 per 24 at max -- 4 extra after 3 waves, 5 after 1 additional unit killed. > > W - Remains essentially the same. > > Slight changes > > * Can store 2 seeds and up to 4 "Biosynthesis" seeds. Regular seeds would be used first when both are available. > * Bio seed charges would fall off over time. The time would be set by level for a few scenarios. > First, being for in lane, where Zyra can go super aggro after 3 waves but in a window of time that the enemy can play around. > Second being for siege/defense/objectives where she can prepare seeds for a teamfight as she clears waves with her team, taking into account that regular seeds are used first. > * Normal seeds of course, recharge as usual, even if Bio seeds are present. > * All limits would be based around her having 3/4/5/6 potential plants out at different stages of the game. With potential for strategic Zyra players to bring out up to 8 in a fight with planning around recharge and unit kills. > > To offer some extra interesting choices to the Zyra, depleted seeds could restore a % of her missing mana or health, allowing her to forego a burst of aggression for sustained aggression. > > All this serves to put more plant focused gameplay onto Zyra while also putting control of it directly into the player's hands. > > Addressing the brought up issue in dumbing down Zyra by making her zone of control purely based on the Zyra's skill and planning. > > Thus, maintaining and enhancing the feeling of mastery for seasoned Zyra players while still making Zyra stand out to players who just want to mess around on her. > > You could observe mastery of Zyra in players by seeing how they treat their plant resource, how they setup their plants for maximum control of a large area and innovative techniques using their arsenal. > > And the learning curve would be sensible as players will quickly strive to maximize their active plants and then seek to maximize the efficiency of their plant placement in fights. > > ----- > > On a side-note, I think I've put a lot more thought, time and effort into ideas for these mages in the past days than the rework team did over the time it took from announcement to update. > > I say this after realizing just how lazy the design of Zyra's new passive is. Riot said Zyra's intended to be more along the lines of a high damage, zone-controlling support that can flex mid lane. Thus, she shouldn't have a passive based on cs'ing.
I may be wrong. But, I believe they said they'd try to preserve support, but it wasn't the focus. Sensibly so, as it's specifically a mage update and Zyra only fell into support because she was lacking as a mage.
Odinakos (EUNE)
: You realize that this a major nerf for support Zyra? Even for proximity, there is a lot of downtime. Want to ward? Out of wards? Adc died/recalled? You have to help your jungler at river/jungle? Loose some potential seeds! One seed over 2.5 minutes? no ty. Rng or not, you can actually paly around your passive. If we want to contest dragon i have a choise. Stay around for 40 sec to have some extra seeds? Is your adc safe without you? Can you respond in time? I have seen a few junglers just turning around seeing 5 seeds around dragon. I now keep track of my passive as i tend to go for trades right after her passive proced. I need to think if i need to defend the random seed that the enemy goes to destroy. Even for lvl 1, there is the major decision beween a godlike leash/quick lvl 1 camp and establishing hard lane zoning. Sure at laning sometimes it makes it super easy to win trades but actually her new passive made her more complex and hell more interesting and fun to play. And last, Riot did a lot of work designing even those small changes. As they had to take into consideration all the possible ones, including unbalanced like yours.
Well actually, it isn't a nerf to support Zyra. As the current passive wouldn't exist yet. It'd be a buff to Zyra in her intended lane and just a potentially neat addition to support Zyra. As the trend that formed was having mages that were no longer adequate enough to go mid, end up as supports, this would just elevate her from support tier. And there's nothing more complex about current Zyra, going by your reasons, which are basically common sense decisions.
: > [{quoted}](name=A Lovely Whisper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y7npEqE0,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2016-05-12T07:07:40.297+0000) > > ? > > {{champion:22}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:96}} Is it really choice between hurricane and shiv on them? Same with Kindred. People also ten to under value on hit.
Hm? Whatchya saying? I'm countering it being non-niche because it fits into a small pool of champions, making it niche.
: 50 Games of Swain
So can we get insight into how to do AD Swain.
: So long as Hurricane is good and non-niche for marksmen, on hit can not be strong for melee.
> non-niche ? {{champion:22}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:96}}
: same thing with my ex-main and ex-best champ, {{champion:90}} both easier to play yet stronger. basically feels like a different champion with the same visuals. the Q and E nerfs are really that bad. RIP my sweet prince of the void
RIP Malzahar A decent final straw to not play League unless personally ~~requested ~~ hounded to play.
: > [{quoted}](name=FlackGacket,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPEH5NGh,comment-id=0023000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-12T04:59:33.920+0000) > > I feel like you missed the part when the OP complained about the overall RNG feel to her playstyle now. How it feels like he lost a lot of control. Zyra felt less satisfying to play when a core mechanic in the past that took time to learn was removed. Of course her passive is better now, and at the same time she's gained more overall strength. However, does a champion just being strong equate to a fun experience? Well, let's look at what her passive change was supposed to accomplish: - Make her better, because she wasn't that good before at all (don't play yourself cause she wasn't). - Play more into her plant theme. With this said, combined with the fact that you don't have inputs for using passives, what *could* they have done? > There should be more consideration of how it feels to play a champion, and the satisfaction you feel when accomplishing something with said champion. Do you ever have certain things in life or actions in games that when you perform them it just feels good? That's been taken away for the OP. That's just my take on it, and I'm also not a Zyra player; although what was described in the post does seem a little on the bland side. RNG is really good for some mechanics, but for others it can feel boring. It could also just bite you in the ass, do you remember old Heimerdinger rockets? So you want her to be worse as a champion so you feel better when you win? If all Zyra players wanted was smarter AI, and they were fine with the shitty revenge kill passive, they shouldn't have whined for a new passive. You got a new passive AND it plays into her theme better, but because you can't actively control the placement of her passive, which almost no champ can do anyway, now she's "worse to play"? Damned if you do or don't apparently. > I for one feel like they should possibly buff the strength of her W abilities to place the seeds, then adjust the Zyra's passive to have certain stages or states where the generation of available seeds for placing increases. I haven't put too much thought into it, but it'd still leave in some of the RNG factor while giving more control to the player. Oh well. I think changes are definitely welcome, and will only be better in the future! So her passive would be an ammo system for her W? Why not just have an ammo system on her W if you'd do that? Remember that passives are more holistic when it comes to application. They don't just effect one spell. Sure, you could say "Using other spells will leave seeds behind", but that'd allow for Zyra to put a crap ton of pressure up with no downtime. Because her passive needs to generate seeds, she needs to wait before going hamm so she can have a good amount of seeds up. Allowing her to just toss a ton of seeds where she wants them would be a shit ton of damage with no breathing room or window of opportunity to fight back if she out-ranges you. Hell, it's kind of like that now anyway...why make it worse?
Two simple tweaks would have been fine. Passive - Allow her to generate additional seeds by klling or assisting in killing a unit at a rate below 1 per enemy slain. Let's say * 1.5 per 24 units killed early game -- 1 extra after 3 waves. * 3 per 24 by mid game -- 2 extra after 3 waves. * 4.5 per 24 by late game -- 3 extra after 3 waves. * 6 per 24 at max -- 4 extra after 3 waves, 5 after 1 additional unit killed. W - Remains essentially the same. Slight changes * Can store 2 seeds and up to 4 "Biosynthesis" seeds. Regular seeds would be used first when both are available. * Bio seed charges would fall off over time. The time would be set by level for a few scenarios. First, being for in lane, where Zyra can go super aggro after 3 waves but in a window of time that the enemy can play around. Second being for siege/defense/objectives where she can prepare seeds for a teamfight as she clears waves with her team, taking into account that regular seeds are used first. * Normal seeds of course, recharge as usual, even if Bio seeds are present. * All limits would be based around her having 3/4/5/6 potential plants out at different stages of the game. With potential for strategic Zyra players to bring out up to 8 in a fight with planning around recharge and unit kills. To offer some extra interesting choices to the Zyra, depleted seeds could restore a % of her missing mana or health, allowing her to forego a burst of aggression for sustained aggression. All this serves to put more plant focused gameplay onto Zyra while also putting control of it directly into the player's hands. Addressing the brought up issue in dumbing down Zyra by making her zone of control purely based on the Zyra's skill and planning. Thus, maintaining and enhancing the feeling of mastery for seasoned Zyra players while still making Zyra stand out to players who just want to mess around on her. You could observe mastery of Zyra in players by seeing how they treat their plant resource, how they setup their plants for maximum control of a large area and innovative techniques using their arsenal. And the learning curve would be sensible as players will quickly strive to maximize their active plants and then seek to maximize the efficiency of their plant placement in fights. ----- On a side-note, I think I've put a lot more thought, time and effort into ideas for these mages in the past days than the rework team did over the time it took from announcement to update. I say this after realizing just how lazy the design of Zyra's new passive is.
: > [{quoted}](name=jr deputy meow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RPEH5NGh,comment-id=00230000,timestamp=2016-05-12T04:11:18.515+0000) > > because they changed the champions they were playing in ways they didn't like or even ask for. Nobody asked for these changes. Generally speaking, people care more about responsiveness and and control than they do about overall strength. The buffs to malzahar and zyra dumped a bunch of strength in to areas the player can't influence as much. On Malz: The point was to make it so Malz can make plays rather than just passively waiting for a fight to happen. The idea is in the right place, so Malz can take some initiative and take people out. The problem is that, since it's the first time Riot's done something like this with a passive...let's be honest they done clown fiesta'd that shit. The intent is in the right place. You can see the point of it...but the execution was awful. On Zyra: No, EVERYONE knew Zyra's old passive was shit. And yes, MANY PEOPLE wanted Zyra to play into her plant theme more. So Riot made her passive create a gradually growing garden around her. Plays into her plant theme way better + it's a better passive. You're not fooling me on that one. Also, who asks for ANY changes to any game? Hell, who asked for LoL to *even be made*. That argument of "no one asked for this" is literally the dumbest one bar none. Consumers don't ask for anything. They pick what they want based on what's available, and what they wanted was a more plant-themed Zyra (there was very little when it came to Malz, admittedly, from what I remember).
> On Malz: The point was to make it so Malz can make plays rather than just passively waiting for a fight to happen. Trust me, he already could. Which is why he was successful as he was. The changes absolutely destroyed Malzahar's healthy playstyle and left behind an auto-piloted, anti-assassin, assassin/mage hybrid mess. The only way you'd need to be waiting around, is if you not incorrectly but very sub-optimally played him as a burst assassin rather than a control mage.
: So...you guys want her to be a worse champion? You want her old passive back? Why is it that people are receiving buffs and improvements to their champs and they're *complaining*? It's like crying over flavors in Africa. Just eat your damn food.
Wouldn't say her old passive was very fitting for someone who should be heavily focused on not being out of position ~~COUGHNEWMALZAHARPASSIVEISSTUPIDASALLHELLCOUGH~~. But I killed Zyra in a match and got a a little scared, then said out loud "Oh right, she doesn't have a passive anymore."
: ***
Agreed. Aside from Malzahar basically not existing anymore, my biggest issue with the update was dumbing down the mages so much. They all either perform the core aspects of their kit automatically or it was made painfully obvious/mandatory to the play them in a specific way with less reward for doing it as a trade-off. Leaving aside Annie and Fiddlesticks of course. * Brand now automatically spreads out his damage instead of being clever to do so, ult not included. * Malzahar automatically zones via Voidlings, automatically avoids getting caught out of position, automatically sets up ult on a Null Zone, automatically uses minions efficiently for jungle clear, lots of etc. * Syndra automatically gets better ults off. * Vel'Koz is ok I guess. * Vladimir is forced to do what he already did at all times. * And you mentioned Zyra. I'd go on, but Riot doesn't care and I'm just tired of league in general now. Malzahar was the champion me and my friend avidly played when we first got into the game and the loss of him along with most of season 6 is a good sign of League not being worth it anymore.
: I feel like Brand is harder, because he has to hit every skill for his passive to go off? I don't know, I haven't played him.
It depends. I'd say if you played a lot of Brand, it's easier since you're doing the same thing you did before with some bonus AoE. If you didn't play Brand much, you'll probably still do the same thing but see differences in effectiveness, due to not using passive as effectively as possible without using ult. However in the case of the AoE portion of damage, you'll find it easier to deal out than before when you had to set it up a bit.
Amelie (NA)
: Zyra feels strong but less skillful to play now
All the mages that were updated are far less skillful to play now. Malzahar being the most diminished.
: He did a lot of damage before with his space aids before his rework but now he isnt reliant on landing his full combo with flash just to kill you. Now all he has to do is flash R.
> [{quoted}](name=IShootTheyDance,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BEe1Nsyd,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-11T21:00:02.876+0000) > > reliant on landing his full combo with flash Assassin Malz was a trashy playstyle.
Elfezen (NA)
: Jinx and Vi are in the same place in their Splash Arts
: You can ***root*** Urgot to stop his ultimate... (PS: you forgot {{champion:90}} )
Malzahar isn't and wasn't reliant on his ultimate. Well maybe he's a bit reliant on it now.
Slythion (NA)
: Nah man, unless you got this trending on Facebook, Reddit, Youtube, Twitter, and every other major social media site currently (which I doubt you even posted on all of these sites) then the majority of league players wont even see this "movement". The only reasonable way to get a majority vote would be for Riot to post an official poll in the client. Another major flaw: Your "16.5 million" number is largely inaccurate. When players say "the majority of the community prefers SQ", it's really "the majority of players who *care* support SQ". There is a huuuugggeee portion of the community that is simply neutral on the issue, and those who support DQ are usually the relaxed players. Those who play the competitive side of the game seriously (including most pro players) *do* prefer SQ. Another flaw: You are completely ignoring servers that don't speak English, unless you went onto the boards for their regions along with other japanese/LAN/LAS/RU/TR websites and posted this calling onto their official sites. We don't have news stories being published about SQ vs DQ like "Kardashian breaks the internet" or the general population of the internet like viral youtube videos get. It's simply us, this single game's community. We have accomplished a lot, but to expect something like a world-wide revolution is nearly impossible, and if accomplished it would take months to spread the word. This entire thing is unrealistic
tldr The people that matter want solo queue back. The people that don't are probably split.
: How do you mean? You still have restrictions with one league max discrepency between premades, and 2 divisions above Diamond V. https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/204010760-Ranked-Play-FAQ#h4q2
[We've been over this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5s4euach5U) Smurf account.
KarKzz (EUW)
: And we accept repertoir as our lord and savior.
Meddler (NA)
: Yorick will almost certainly be sometime later this year. Urgot won't be this year, he's an extremely strong candidate for next year though.
Off topic -- Any chance we get Malzahar back? Any talks about it or is he gone forever?
: I'm going to get downvoted to hell for this
> I'm going to get downvoted to hell for this --- > Opinion that appeals to the unskilled majority of the playerbase.
: One time i had a premade who carried my solo playing self, they were using teamwork and were only talking to me when needed to without pointless banter or hate. We won. Does that mean DQ should stay cause my experience?
> [{quoted}](name=JackMcSnipeyz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZpgjIeUb,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-05-10T14:21:00.349+0000) > > One time i had a premade who carried my solo playing self, they were using teamwork and were only talking to me when needed to without pointless banter or hate. > We won. > Does that mean DQ should stay cause my experience? Was going to reply to op, but this will fit perfectly here. One can say, this one extreme experience doesn't mean anything. But this is an extreme case of a group just dicking around with friends. There can be several more cases of less extreme, but similar behaviour that leads to a poor experience. The fact that the system innately allows for this and several other unhealthy/exploit level occurrences is a major flaw and unacceptable for any gaming company with any integrity.
Mimaropa (NA)
: This one I like. Cassiopeia's case doesn't seem to be a curse to me. she gained so much power which includes making toxic miasmas, turning people into stone with her gaze and more. the only thing that is mysterious is that in the Azir resurrection video, she just got bit a snake stone statue. described that she was suffering in venom and nothing else about her transformation. she couldn't possibly ran after she opened the tomb. Did xerath rewarded her for his freedom? or did the stone snake acted on its own and gave her powers? or something else/ she deservs atleast a mention in one of the upcoming lores.
> she gained so much power ha. ha. ha. ha.
: League Themed Wedding, LF Reds to reply!
Kinetika (NA)
: So here's the thing - even if Shaco were to receive a rework (and I'm sure he will at some point), his Q is so ingrained with who Shaco is that they're not going to change it significantly. Nor should they. In terms of comparisons to other assassins, Shaco relies on that element of surprise in order to get kills. He's not necessarily relying on an ult like Fizz, Zed, LB, or Talon. In fact, rolling with ignite is imperative because his kit, particularly early on, doesn't provide the type of dmg that other assassins have. In my opinion, that necessitates the Q initiation/escape...and as a number of people have noted, he's a feast or famine champ...there are plenty of circumstances where Shaco players can't secure the kill with their entire combo. Watch some of Shaclones videos for reference.
No doubt, his Q is a huge part of who he is. It just happens to be a huge point against him being the ideal assassin. I have no idea how they'll rework him but I have low confidence in his identity being preserved.
iTaLenTZ (EUW)
: His W was his BEST spell. You could zone, deal massive AoE damage and was the thing that defined him as the best tankmelter in the game right after Vayne. I got to diamond 2 maining malz as tankmelter focussing on his W. If you played him as burster his R would be the most important spell but that was too easy too counter to be reliable, especially in high eelo
> **Passive - Summon Voidling** > _On every fourth ability use Malzahar Malzahar summons a Voidling that remains on the field until it is killed or 21 seconds have passed._ > _When multiple Voidlings are active, they all gain **50%** bonus attack speed._ --- > **Q - Call of the Void** > _Malzahar summons two orbs at the target location perpendicular to which way he is facing after a **0.5** second delay, dealing magic damage to all enemies caught between the orbs and silencing them._ > **Magic Damage** > 80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 300 **(+ 80% AP) ** > **Silence Duration** > 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 seconds. --- > **W - Null Zone** > _Malzahar creates a zone of negative energy for **5 **seconds, dealing magic damage every second to all enemies standing on it, capped at **120** against minions and monsters. _ > **Magic Damage** > 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 / 9%** (+ 1.5% per 100 AP)** --- > **E - Malefic Visions** > _Malzahar infects the target enemy's mind, dealing them magic damage every half second over **4** seconds. If the target is affected by Malzahar's other abilities, the duration of Malefic Visions will refresh._ > _If the target dies during this time, they pass Malefic Visions onto the closest enemy, refreshing the duration and restoring **2%** of Malzahar's maximum mana._ > **Magic Damage** > 80 / 115 / 150 / 185 / 220 **(+ 70% AP) ** --- > **R - Nether Grasp** > _Malzahar knocks down the target enemy champion and channels for up to **2.5** seconds, suppressing them and amplifying the effects of Null Zone and Malefic Visions._ > **Bonus - Null Zone** > _Null Zone expands over the duration of Nether Grasp and refreshes it's duration at the end of the channel. _ > **Bonus - Malefic Visions** > _Malefic Visions spreads from the target of Nether Grasp to nearby enemies. _ --- **Context/Goals** Malzahar was best used for his control style with emphasis on zoning and tank busting. --- **Summon Voidling/Void Swarm** Malzahar is not a summoner at his core. While the niche jungle playstyle uses the Voidlings, it is in no way necessary to amplify an already adequate playstyle to such an extent. I imagine there was some motivation in removal of randomness regarding making Voidling creation an active. But, Voidling summoning was already a calculated effort and does not need any change. A removal of the Voidlings' delayed power and a buff for bringing out more than one Voidling is a decent idea and can be kept. --- **Call of the Void** Required no changes damage-wise. It's not the easiest skillshot to land and it's damage should be a heavy deterrent to chasing Malzahar. With that considered, the silence reduction is a welcomed change and can even be further reduced with little issue. --- **Null Zone** A huge part in establishing a zone as Malzahar. The proper use of Null Zone separates the "I'm just an ult" Malzahar players from those who see the real potential of the champion. It is also a big part in his kiting pattern. With these two things in mind, having it tied to his self CC as well as having the positioning tied to the location of an enemy is almost as counter intuitive as the fixed range of Cassiopeia's anti-dash. Lastly, the "famous" Null Zone ult combo has a lot of power in it's threat. The threat of a Malzahar ult on Null Zone adds to the zoning provided by placing it well. Making the combo automatic removes a large amount of gameplay from Malzahar. --- **Malefic Visions** The change to allow Visions to be extended was a good one. Reducing it's damage with that in mind is fine. And with Malzahar's proper W ability, his control playstyle is even further supported while retaining his balanced state. --- **Nether Grasp** An ability that could have been removed, but was perhaps iconic or something. That aside, the changes to Nether Grasp were in somewhat of a good direction, though barely. Very barely. Nether Grasp as an ability was either frustrating for Malzahar or for his enemy. As it stood, it was either used by pick up Malzahars to be an assassin/burst mage or reluctantly used to secure a prime target, turn around when kiting or as a last resort lockdown. The ability had 2 players unable to play the game for 2.5 seconds with nothing of note except damage. Adding the Null Zone to ult instead of magic damage is again, barely sensible, with the key issues being the removal of Null Zone as an ability and still no real reason to use it that fits into Malzahar's playstyle. The above changes make it so that Malzahar can use Nether Grasp to cash in on the control he had on the fight by either punishing clumped enemies, letting his team deal with the front line uninterrupted, forcing disengage, etc. What Malzahar wants to do in a fight is * Keep his assailants away from him. * Separate the enemy team/break down their formation. * Shred those pesky tanks. * Deal sustained multi-target damage. And these are all well supported with the changes. --- With all the above, the reason to pick Malzahar over other mages is well emphasized, rather than changing the champion all together like the update did. [Source](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/7KiAvOoq-what-malzahar-should-be)
Rioter Comments
Nilok (NA)
: @Riot If you find the Malz rework forces him to be put on ice...
**Passive - Summon Voidling** >_On every fourth ability use Malzahar Malzahar summons a Voidling that remains on the field until it is killed or 21 seconds have passed._ >_When multiple Voidlings are active, they all gain **50%** bonus attack speed._ --- >**Q - Call of the Void** >_Malzahar summons two orbs at the target location perpendicular to which way he is facing after a **0.5** second delay, dealing magic damage to all enemies caught between the orbs and silencing them._ >**Magic Damage** >80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 300 **(+ 80% AP) ** >**Silence Duration** >1 / 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 seconds. --- >**W - Null Zone** >_Malzahar creates a zone of negative energy for **5 **seconds, dealing magic damage every second to all enemies standing on it, capped at **120** against minions and monsters. _ >**Magic Damage** >5 / 6 / 7 / 8 / 9%** (+ 1.5% per 100 AP)** --- >**E - Malefic Visions** >_Malzahar infects the target enemy's mind, dealing them magic damage every half second over **4** seconds. If the target is affected by Malzahar's other abilities, the duration of Malefic Visions will refresh._ >_If the target dies during this time, they pass Malefic Visions onto the closest enemy, refreshing the duration and restoring **2%** of Malzahar's maximum mana._ >**Magic Damage** >80 / 115 / 150 / 185 / 220 **(+ 70% AP) ** --- >**R - Nether Grasp** >_Malzahar knocks down the target enemy champion and channels for up to **2.5** seconds, suppressing them and amplifying the effects of Null Zone and Malefic Visions._ >**Bonus - Null Zone** >_Null Zone expands over the duration of Nether Grasp and refreshes it's duration at the end of the channel. _ >**Bonus - Malefic Visions** >_Malefic Visions spreads from the target of Nether Grasp to nearby enemies. _ --- **Context/Goals** Malzahar was best used for his control style with emphasis on zoning and tank busting. --- **Summon Voidling/Void Swarm** Malzahar is not a summoner at his core. While the niche jungle playstyle uses the Voidlings, it is in no way necessary to amplify an already adequate playstyle to such an extent. I imagine there was some motivation in removal of randomness regarding making Voidling creation an active. But, Voidling summoning was already a calculated effort and does not need any change. A removal of the Voidlings' delayed power and a buff for bringing out more than one Voidling is a decent idea and can be kept. --- **Call of the Void** Required no changes damage-wise. It's not the easiest skillshot to land and it's damage should be a heavy deterrent to chasing Malzahar. With that considered, the silence reduction is a welcomed change and can even be further reduced with little issue. --- **Null Zone** A huge part in establishing a zone as Malzahar. The proper use of Null Zone separates the "I'm just an ult" Malzahar players from those who see the real potential of the champion. It is also a big part in his kiting pattern. With these two things in mind, having it tied to his self CC as well as having the positioning tied to the location of an enemy is almost as counter intuitive as the fixed range of Cassiopeia's anti-dash. Lastly, the "famous" Null Zone ult combo has a lot of power in it's threat. The threat of a Malzahar ult on Null Zone adds to the zoning provided by placing it well. Making the combo automatic removes a large amount of gameplay from Malzahar. --- **Malefic Visions** The change to allow Visions to be extended was a good one. Reducing it's damage with that in mind is fine. And with Malzahar's proper W ability, his control playstyle is even further supported while retaining his balanced state. --- **Nether Grasp** An ability that could have been removed, but was perhaps iconic or something. That aside, the changes to Nether Grasp were in somewhat of a good direction, though barely. Very barely. Nether Grasp as an ability was either frustrating for Malzahar or for his enemy. As it stood, it was either used by pick up Malzahars to be an assassin/burst mage or reluctantly used to secure a prime target, turn around when kiting or as a last resort lockdown. The ability had 2 players unable to play the game for 2.5 seconds with nothing of note except damage. Adding the Null Zone to ult instead of magic damage is again, barely sensible, with the key issues being the removal of Null Zone as an ability and still no real reason to use it that fits into Malzahar's playstyle. The above changes make it so that Malzahar can use Nether Grasp to cash in on the control he had on the fight by either punishing clumped enemies, letting his team deal with the front line uninterrupted, forcing disengage, etc. What Malzahar wants to do in a fight is * Keep his assailants away from him. * Separate the enemy team/break down their formation. * Shred those pesky tanks. * Deal sustained multi-target damage. And these are all well supported with the changes. --- With all the above, the reason to pick Malzahar over other mages is well emphasized, rather than changing the champion all together like the update did.
FoxPlays (NA)
: Hmm I can see your points but these champs can also snowball out of control. I was against a fizz and he two shorted me with his QW auto combo ;D
> I was against a fizz and he two shorted me with his QW auto combo This is a possibility, but only if you allow it to get to that.
: "While Shaco does require skill to play effectively, it is not the kind of skill that opens up much potential to play against." "The healthiest assassins in the game all have very clear methods to play against" *Lists two champions with a "remove from game" ability and one with a wall that counters most mages, even when it's not even facing them*
Very clear methods to play against those. Once they use the ability twice, you know it's purpose and how to punish it's CD. As for Yasuo. C'mon, windwall is clear the moment you do so much as fire an auto attack. You punish it's CD all the same. There's a clear reason older assassins see nerfs as soon as they hit the spotlight and are ignored otherwise. It's harder to balance "Press to burst" champions than it is to balance champions with higher potential for error.
: Very simple. Men are innately stronger than women. Man dominates woman who isn't submissive. Women are by far weaker than men are on average, and for most of history had a very big problem with "Living to the ripe old age of died in childbirth" due to poor medical care for most of history. Society is far more progressive now, but even then you still see a lot of those old ideals hold enough strength that it colors our society. Most CEOs will be male (Old white males at that), most high income jobs, with the higher risk jobs having an insanely dispropotionate %age being male, among other issues. I mean, guys have almost as many issues as women do in society, in the nature of "You are a guy, suck it up and be an emotionless robot, and whatever you do do not let your emotions show" for any guy who is overly emotional gets called a wimp/girly/ect... Society is getting better, but we have a few thousand years of tradition to break down.
Should have a look at some of [this guy's videos](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMIj-wEiKIcGAcLoBO2ciQQ). There's a lot of innate aspects of society. Society may in fact be degrading due to the ways our innate behaviors play out in modern times. "Getting better" would be true however, on a purely individual level, though only short term.
The8east (NA)
: HERE IS A MESSAGE TO ALL YOU NEW LVL 30 PLAYERS
Nah, ranked isn't that serious anymore. Ranked is more for semi-serious. Like if you want to try something out, but you want the enemy to be a little more motivated to win.
uJhisper (NA)
: Is Shaco the perfect idea of what an assassin should be?
No. Not at all. He is the absolute extreme case of feast or famine. Oppressive when ahead, nearly useless when behind. The oppression comes in the form of mechanics and designs that no longer have a true place in the game. * Stealth, leading to item reliant counterplay. * Melee Carry stat binding. * Low interaction kit. While Shaco does require skill to play effectively, it is not the kind of skill that opens up much potential to play against. The healthiest assassins in the game all have very clear methods to play against while not being brutally punished for not dominating early on. {{champion:103}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:157}} Some may disagree with their health based on experiences. But from a pure design perspective, we can see very clear and non-outdated elements of power in their kit. Playing against these champs, you can easily read how to play against them. **Ahri ** * Pink skillshot allows her to land the rest of her abilities. Avoid it and try to fight when it's not up. * She can dash but it leaves her with no escape. Try to force her to waste it so you can kill her. **Zed ** * He has an escape via his shadow. But he also uses this to try to damage you. Take advantage of it. * When he blinks onto you, he tries to unload everything on you and then you take a lot of damage after a delay. Seek to avoid taking any further damage after you see the mark. * Additionally, he can blink back to his original position, stay focused on it once you gain the upper hand. **Fizz** * Requires the use of an escape to reach you in most cases. Force him t use it defensively before he decides to use it offensively. * His ult is an overall death sentence. Dodge it and fighting him will be much easier. **Yasuo** * He has a lot more inputs than you required to do anything, take advantage of this to force mistakes. * He has an extended range after 2 sword stabs, take note and don't get knocked up. * He can't effectively reach you without your minions. Take note of it. **Shaco** * You don't really know when he'll be present without buying an item. Even then, he can destroy the tool you obtained. * You have no real indication of his damage increase when your back is turned. * Other than counting CD, you don't really know when he can escape again. * There's no indication other than taking further hits that he can no longer slow you once shiv is down. * Other than experience, potentially futile efforts, or secret tricks, there is little in the way of differentiating between the clone and Shaco. Assuming a player knows everything listed here, Ahri, Zed, Fizz and Yasuo can still be pretty effective if they play right. Shaco on the other hand, tends to fail in all the but the most skilled hands unless there's a lack of knowledge or experience present in the enemy.
Ralanr (NA)
: Male yordles are more animal in appearance. That's the sexual dimorphism.
Please. Don't act like female yordles don't have female human faces.
: are you someone who claims rek'sai is a boy because she doesn't have boobs or other "feminine" characteristics
No... I don't really assume non-humanoid genders using humanoid traits.
: @ Riot games, where is solo queue at?
Lyte is gone. Possibly fired? Maybe things are looking up.
Lyte (NA)
: Goodbye for now, Riot Games
{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}} Thank god.
: 1. Maybe RIOT Girl trist...? 2. I think it's adorable 3. What? ;-; 4. WHAT? ;-; 5. WHAAT!?!! and yes it looks cool.
1. Close enough I guess. 2. Lolipoppy reborn. 3. That's a boy. 4. That's a boy. 5. That's a badass boy.
: Earlier Malzahar's only weakness was CC while being ulted and getting caught out of position. While his Q was reliant on that (as it turns with his position) he was a champ that was most efficient by setting yourself up right up. Then you can win a fight. Go in to deep for a priority target or get caught out of position and you are dead. Now it's just like Whoopsydoopsy I'll just float through the whole alistar here and tadaa - ad carry anihilated. ( i hat the e extension. It makes his aids feel even annoying to me)
> Earlier Malzahar's **only** weakness was CC while being ulted and getting caught out of position. That's a universal weakness. Basically, he had all the weaknesses a generic adc with one self peel skill had. Along with a few additional mage specific issues. A good Malzahar and a good adc are of course, capable of being effective despite that. > ( i hat the e extension. It makes his aids feel even annoying to me) You need to think about what you could do with the E extension on old Malzahar. With null zone extending it, your zoning and tank melting increases to amazing levels. Well worth losing the ult like originally discussed.
: I just saw the Tristana splash updates
1. Which skin is that? 2. Creepy face 3. Gender swap Tristana 4. See. 3 5. See 3 & 4 but looks cool.
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