: A lot. How many lost never surrender where none of my teamate gave up? About 1 out of 5. How many loosing game no teamate give up? Very few.
> [{quoted}](name=Ahri Inari,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pEvFLA17,comment-id=002900000000,timestamp=2018-11-16T09:01:23.737+0000) > > A lot. > How many lost never surrender where none of my teamate gave up? > About 1 out of 5. > How many loosing game no teamate give up? > Very few. Because by the numbers it makes more sense to exit a blown game than attempt to play from behind - something actively discouraged by the current meta. If you didn't lose 90% of games where the other team has a 2K gold lead, if turrets weren't made out of paper, if game duration wasn't getting pushed ever lower, if comebacks weren't rare, then it might make sense. For right now, though? It's pain for no reward. You get to play more if you get out of a behind game ASAP. For every two games that you have lost and get a successful FF@15, that's an additional game you're getting to play in the same amount of time than if you'd have stuck it out. Don't blame your team for coming to the conclusion supported by the facts.
: Winnable. I'm sick of people who give up so early and most of the time we still end up losing mostly because people gave up and keep feeding and was winnable if they actually tried. https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2908501147/229259772?tab=overview A comeback when massively behind but everyone was still try harding.
> [{quoted}](name=Ahri Inari,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pEvFLA17,comment-id=0029,timestamp=2018-11-15T09:46:04.534+0000) > > Winnable. I'm sick of people who give up so early and most of the time we still end up losing mostly because people gave up and keep feeding and was winnable if they actually tried. > > https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2908501147/229259772?tab=overview > > A comeback when massively behind but everyone was still try harding. How many lost never surrender games did you play to get that one comeback?
: Actually you'd be surprised, i got banned in season 7, 2 months b4 the season ended, and im still not even honor 2. Once you get banned, its almost impossible to get honor back
> [{quoted}](name=Davínand,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=o1bhE10A,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-11-14T19:51:40.098+0000) > > Actually you'd be surprised, i got banned in season 7, 2 months b4 the season ended, and im still not even honor 2. Once you get banned, its almost impossible to get honor back Not really - the trick is that you're probably still getting valid reports. Those silently slow your progress down. Try opening a ticket with player support and they'll be able to tell you more.
Keyru (NA)
: 2018 End of Season Rewards and Honor
>># Is Riot excusing abusive behavior? >We are not. ...you kinda are. Not gonna lie guys, it seems like you're going soft. There was a recent repeat of the "unban perma'd players for a second chance" experiment from a few years ago, I'm seeing PB&M posts about people getting permas reversed, and now ranked rewards are being okayed for people who can't keep their nastiness out of the chatbox. The answer to people upset about how they lost their rewards for tox is and always has been "your behavior was the cause, don't be toxic next time and you won't lose anything". That appears to be slowly changing. This might be a feel-good thing, but all you're going to do is get people to think they can get the same break next time around, and in a roundabout way, cause more tox. You might say this is a one time thing, but you also say permabans are permanent and never reversed unless placed in error...
: My only comment here is that both sides have a point. I will attempt to highlight a point the boards does not agree with though. Humans are emotional creatures. In the current age and with the current trends we are forced to suppress our emotions in favor of maximizing productivity and creating a utopia of brainwashed contentment. I think that kind of evolution can be dangerous. For instance years ago a car wreck would happen and people would jump out to help. Now people just take their phones out and take photos and videos of the dying person and share it on social media. Sometimes an emotional response is not productive, but is also not necessarily detrimental in its entirety. A breakdown at work is frowned upon, conversation outside of the actual task at work is shunned, and any extra interaction that doesn't result in profit is ridiculed. I think that while the mom and pop shop at the end of the road can't service as many people as an assembly line Dollar Tree employee, I sometimes wish we had more mom and pop shops to appease my emotional needs. The liberal arts are dying in favor of production over expression. People have ceased to think outside of the box they are placed in. I know that was probably too much, but I just thought I'd share why I think some emotional response is almost a relief if managed appropriately. I am not justifying personal attacks, hate speech or anything like that, but to cut out any and all negativity is very difficult for some people to do. Helping them adapt and learn new tools to cope might be a better idea.
> [{quoted}](name=Anti Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wEbVOkNh,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-11-15T08:18:41.833+0000) > > I know that was probably too much, but I just thought I'd share why I think some emotional response is almost a relief if managed appropriately. I am not justifying personal attacks, hate speech or anything like that, but to cut out any and all negativity is very difficult for some people to do. Helping them adapt and learn new tools to cope might be a better idea. Riot doesn't care what kind of emotional relief you practice, they only care *where it goes*. You are more than welcome to question your jungler's heritage, tell your ADC they're a boosted monkey, and wonder aloud why the support hasn't cut their wrists yet... ...so long as you don't do so in the chat box. All of these things, and more, are perfectly fine on a stream or in real life or with your friends. Your only requirement is to keep it out of the chat box.
: > once you've fallen far enough behind, that is what you are reduced to doing. If you can't CS, you can't reverse a gold difference. We're speaking the to the ward duration nerf. That doesn't affect your ability to CS under tower, it affects your ability to step out onto the map. You should be punished for falling behind. If farming under turret has no disadvantage, it becomes the optimal play-style, and that is boring. It is definitely possible to tilt the game to far towards rewarding aggression, but I don't think this ward nerf will do it. I half agree about surrender timers, Riot has acknowledged that themselves, they've been looking at them. Looking ahead to next season with the tower barricades, I'm unsure how that will affect the appropriate surrender time.
> [{quoted}](name=PandaNator43,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PEIljUgR,comment-id=001f00000000,timestamp=2018-11-09T18:42:20.019+0000) > >You should be punished for falling behind. If farming under turret has no disadvantage, it becomes the optimal play-style, and that is boring. If farming under turret is **completely unviable** (as it is now), there is no reasonable way to play from behind. You've gone from a snowball meta to snowball being an intrinsic and irreversible part of the game design. Get ahead and win. You've rendered 2/3 of the length of the game irrelevant.
: Banned for MMR Boosting just now and don't know why?
>However, they don't pull the trigger on boosting bans individually, so the people who regularly boost aren't sure exactly what part of their routines flagged the accounts. No, it just means that boosted players get to play for an extended amount of time, ruining games, before the hammer gets dropped on them.
: > getting insta-gibbed by some braindead loser the moment they're forced to facecheck a bush? There are certainly degenerate cases of this. But there also times when you out macro the enemy team and the're forced to rotate without vision. The simplest case is the enemy laner is playing super safe, so you shove the wave and roam. With less vision, you're roam is more threatening to the other lanes, and its more dangerous for the enemy team to try and match you. I say punishing the "farm under turret" play style is good. I'd say rewarding strong macro play and map awareness is good. Will these changes have those affects? I'm optimistic, but only time will tell, there certainly could be some degenerate side affects. You concern is valid (although your presumptions of Riot's fetishs are not :P )
> [{quoted}](name=PandaNator43,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PEIljUgR,comment-id=001f,timestamp=2018-11-08T22:22:56.432+0000) > > I say punishing the "farm under turret" play style is good Hard disagree, because once you've fallen far enough behind, that is what you are reduced to doing. If you can't CS, you can't reverse a gold difference. And if you still want to kill it off, something needs to be done about surrender timers so that people aren't stuck in a game they have no realistic chance of coming back on.
: It has 400k players right now... how is that not popular? Counter strike has a little less than that at 380k. Both of those games are popular.
> [{quoted}](name=AXayahAccount,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PEIljUgR,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-07T20:16:41.668+0000) > > It has 400k players right now... how is that not popular? Counter strike has a little less than that at 380k. Both of those games are popular. 400k players compared to the somewhere between 40 and 80 million League has. 400k is low-to-middling, not broad popularity.
: > [{quoted}](name=Karunamon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HZVoE4EW,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2018-10-30T19:21:28.480+0000) > > The system promotes not chatting unless your chat is positive and friendly. Read the [summoner's code](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/get-started/summoners-code/) some time. You're such a boyscout. xD
No, just one of the high 90s percent of people who play this game and have managed to never be punished for anything.
: Visual and Sound Effects Update: Anivia
I love this - my favorite birdy enters the modern era :D Two minor, *minor* nitpicks: One is the ice wall animation. Currently, it's a smooth melt out and really looks like how you'd expect rapidly melting ice to look. The new version kinda sits there for a bit, and then quickly jumps under the ground as the timeout ends - it's a bit jarring, and II wish the smooth fade was still there. Also more of a question - why does base Ani not have any falling ice on her ult now, but Blackfrost and Festival Queen do? As I understand it, this is a visual indication that the ult is at max size and is doing extra damage. That feedback is now gone.
zlajo (EUNE)
: Automated system is bad, bring back modified Tribunal
>It doesn't matter if you flamed someone for the whole game, or if you just returned a snide comment to someone, you will get the same punishment if reported enough. Number of reports has no impact on anything. If you are reported once, your chat is checked. Anything beyond that has no effect. Even if it's the entire enemy team and everyone else on your team. 1 report == 9 reports. >The automated system has many flaws, of which being abusable and not giving equal punishment to crime. There's no such thing as severity. If you are toxic, you have broken the rules and deserve your punishment - end of discussion. (With the one standout exception of slurs&suicide, which is still automatic). As to the rest of the post, [tribunal doesn't scale](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/L1PPeqqi-psa-why-the-tribunal-is-never-coming-back)
: What is up with Riot's matchmaking
Because their MMR puts them in your general league. Remember that "gold" isn't an MMR, it's a league, and that the two can be wildly different due to streaks and luck. This could be a player doing their placements, probably brought on by the season ending soon and they want to hit gold for max rewards.
: I won't be able to change your mind no matter what. You already got to a conclusion here. There are next to no "unwinnable games". Unwinnable to most people (especially in low elo) just means that you or one of your teammates fed so hard that coming back into the game before the enemy opens up the base is extremely unlikely. Yes, there are those games where your team collectively fed 20 kills in 10 minutes and lost all outer and inner turrets. FF@15 in those games is fair. And then there are those games where your botlane/midlane/toplane/jungler fed the enemy so hard that it set you behind by an insane amount of gold. I won't surrender those. I'm not giving the idiot that doesn't understand the basic concept of playing safe and not feeding a Get-out-of-Jail-free card just so he can go back into doing the same tilted bullshit to another set of players.
> [{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RHWIGpOi,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-11-02T15:12:15.083+0000) > > I won't be able to change your mind no matter what. You already got to a conclusion here. > > There are next to no "unwinnable games". Unwinnable to most people (especially in low elo) just means that you or one of your teammates fed so hard that coming back into the game before the enemy opens up the base is extremely unlikely. Comebacks are quite rare, and they become more rare the larger the gold lead. This is part of the snowball game design. > And then there are those games where your botlane/midlane/toplane/jungler fed the enemy so hard that it set you behind by an insane amount of gold. I won't surrender those. I'm not giving the idiot that doesn't understand the basic concept of playing safe and not feeding a Get-out-of-Jail-free card just so he can go back into doing the same tilted bullshit to another set of players. No, you're just punishing three other people in your vendetta against one. I will leave games like the one you describe and not even look back, leaverbuster be damned.
: https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2898684185/43497197?tab=overview&participant=3 Check out this game and tell me comebacks don't feel great
> [{quoted}](name=Bob the Toastr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RHWIGpOi,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2018-11-02T17:31:28.073+0000) > > https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2898684185/43497197?tab=overview&participant=3 > > Check out this game and tell me comebacks don't feel great They do, but they're statistically very rare, and being held in nine games that were decided by the 15 minute mark just in the off chance this is the tenth game where that comeback happens? It feels *miserable*. One comeback isn't worth nine hostage scenarios. Putting this another way, with an average game length of 27 minutes, if all of those lost games were FF'ed at 15, that's about 12 minutes saved each game. At playing ten lost games, that's **two hours** worth of time gained. That works out to almost five additional games you could play in the same amount of time as playing ten of the games you couldn't get an FF in. How do you think your performance would be if you could play ~45% more games in the same amount of time you spend on league?
: The way I know best how tired I am is if I try to use my car remote to unlock my apartment door. Happened several times...
> [{quoted}](name=Bob the Toastr,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ErOkZFgj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-11-01T15:56:24.030+0000) > > The way I know best how tired I am is if I try to use my car remote to unlock my apartment door. Happened several times... I've caught myself trying to use my work badge to unlock the front door on the way out a few times...
: > [{quoted}](name=Aionius,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rZaA1Lk8,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-02T05:37:18.077+0000) > > Lmfao I didn't understand at first what this meant but I see it's sarcastic. Yeah her win rate is really low, and honestly without Shroud she's not very strong. ye. Her shroud is annoying. That's not what people are arguing tho, they're arguing that she is clearly overpowered to the point where she's basically an instawin. Clearly not true. If you want to argue she has a toxic design than that's fine and I might even agree with you, but fuck me it is not an instalose if she is on the other team in your ranked game. Quite the opposite, actually - your odds increase if you see her picked on the enemy team. Same thing with most of the other champions being bitched about. Irelia, leblanc, and kai'sa all have win rates ranging from mediocre to average.
> [{quoted}](name=CSC Panda,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rZaA1Lk8,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-11-02T05:38:57.153+0000) > > ye. Her shroud is annoying. That's not what people are arguing tho, they're arguing that she is clearly overpowered to the point where she's basically an instawin. Clearly not true. If you want to argue she has a toxic design than that's fine and I might even agree with you, but fuck me it is not an instalose if she is on the other team in your ranked game. Quite the opposite, actually - your odds increase if you see her picked on the enemy team. > > Same thing with most of the other champions being bitched about. Irelia, leblanc, and kai'sa all have win rates ranging from mediocre to average. Yeah, this. People have a really hard time here for some reason judging the difference between a design that is toxic and stats that are OP. A design that is toxic needs to be changed because it sucks to deal with. (Yasuo, Zoe, etc) A champ that has OP stats needs to be changed because it breaks game balance. (Honestly, I can't think of any completely imba champs right now)
: And forgot to point out the last one; if your agreement suddenly changes this year among 7 years, its not fair. You are right, if it has always been like that its the players responsibility. This case, no. If you are not notified with the information as much for such a drastic change, the responsibility lies in both because this sesson cost my time and effort.
> [{quoted}](name=I am leaving,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EhHV3MTu,comment-id=000a0001000000000001,timestamp=2018-11-01T21:40:07.261+0000) > > And forgot to point out the last one; if your agreement suddenly changes this year among 7 years, its not fair. You are right, if it has always been like that its the players responsibility. This case, no. > If you are not notified with the information as much for such a drastic change, the responsibility lies in both because this sesson cost my time and effort. It didn't "suddenly change". It was announced at the same time ranked rewards were announced for the year, and since Honor 2.0 landed back in 7.13. If someone didn't keep up with the details for this long of a time, their ignorance is their own fault.
BurNìng (NA)
: Riot's discipline system too harsh? (push)
Okay, I went into this post thinking it was going to be yet another person whining about how they got banned... but I think you have a point. I think that players should overall get fewer chances (and so, get to ruin fewer games before the banhammer falls), but having the first step on the ladder result in loss of rewards, *without even a warning popup*, strikes me as violation of the principle of least surprise. And that goes double given how little attention the summoner's code gets in onboarding. My dream system would be three strikes. * 1st time: A warning. Merely a warning, maybe demoting honor by one level. * 2nd time: Honor reset to zero + 25 game chat ban, combined with very clear and unambiguous notification that putting one toe out of line will result in account loss. Must be confirmed by typing the words "I understand" into a prompt, player must answer a short quiz on the summoner's code before being allowed to play again. * 3rd time: Banned, GTFO.
: I completely agree. I’ve played the game for awhile and hit a rough batch of bad teammates. I admit I was somewhat toxic and with no previous issue of toxicity or warning I received a 14 day ban. Yes a 14 day ban for my first time offense.
> [{quoted}](name=Chainsawhobo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=dbUT5c0G,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-11-01T15:57:29.675+0000) > > I completely agree. I’ve played the game for awhile and hit a rough batch of bad teammates. I admit I was somewhat toxic and with no previous issue of toxicity or warning I received a 14 day ban. Yes a 14 day ban for my first time offense. The only way you get 14ed on your first offense are for hate speech or telling people to kill themselves. These are serious enough offenses that there is no excuse given.
: You do not qualify the the ranked rewards though. And yes, I do agree with what you stated but if you met a troll during your promos to gold and failed the promotiom, would you really be like, cool whatever? Toxicity isnt okay it will never be gone in a team competition game. And regardless of how honorable I was, it is not fair that it drops to 1 from sitting from nearly the max honor level without a warning. Its like a premium league soccer player does not get paid because of a yellow card.
> [{quoted}](name=I am leaving,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EhHV3MTu,comment-id=000a00010000,timestamp=2018-11-01T21:16:37.742+0000) > >if you met a troll during your promos to gold and failed the promotiom, would you really be like, cool whatever? I've fallen out of S4 twice due to strings of trolls combined with just plain bad games. Of course I'm not very happy about it. Why do you imply the only alternative is to put nastiness into the chat box? It's not like it's going to get the troll upset or make them stop trolling or play better. This is really basic self control. Plenty of other ways to blow off frustration that won't get you in trouble. >it is not fair that it drops to 1 from sitting from nearly the max honor level without a warning. It's absolutely fair because that has been the rule since ranked rewards have existed. You don't get rewards without honor. You lose honor by acting dishonorably - something that is **completely** within your control. >Its like a premium league soccer player does not get paid because of a yellow card. If a premium league soccer player signs up for a league that has a rule stating "you forfeit pay upon recieving a yellow card", then it is completely fair. They could have signed up with another league.
: Hey bud. Who ever said that was the only reason I wanted to be nice. I said i am a nice guy, usually, unless someone like this starts talking mad shit to me. Yes defending myself. Retaliation. Yes. thank you for confirming. you're sure full of sarcasm though aren't you bud.
> [{quoted}](name=Determinist,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EhHV3MTu,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-11-01T11:26:02.767+0000) > > Hey bud. Who ever said that was the only reason I wanted to be nice. I said i am a nice guy, usually, unless someone like this starts talking mad shit to me. I'm going to highlight the relevant part of your comment: > Hey bud. Who ever said that was the only reason I wanted to be nice. I said i am a nice guy, usually,_** unless someone like this starts talking mad shit to me.**_ Nope. That's not how this works. You be a "nice guy" all the time (or at least, not negative), or you get the hammer. If someone is bothering you, you mute them, you don't subject the rest of your team to your nasty chat.
: All these replies are sick really. Whowever thinks this poster needs a punishment is simply unranked or enjoying his punushment for no reason. I am really sorry for your situatuon. There are bunch of toxic people on forum when people with high honors and rank miss out the rewards. They simply seem to enjoy it. Here are the cases I have seen so far who post toxic comments regarding this topic. 1. Some barely made it by coming up from honor level 0 with constant honor level demotion, and are happy that they had enough time to climb up by knowing the consquences of toxic bdhavior in advance. 2. Unranked or low elos who cannot get rewards. 3. People who pretend to be righteous and act like I know it all. I got 10 games chat restriction because of a one single bad game in this whole year. I confirmed it with Riot support but there are always ones saying "no, cant be". I recognize the toxic ones from many other posts regarding honor levels. Ironically, these people seem much more toxic on many of their replies than the ones going through the penalties and missing the rewards. Sure, they wouldnt care because most do not qualify for tbe rewards, or few are naturally toxic people who learned their lessons to stay quiet before the season end date. It will be the first reward miss for me since s4 and i know ill get one next year because getting to gold or higher is a joke. Most toxic people here need to spend more time playing games to improve their skills than replying to these kind of posts that they have no idea what they are talking about.
> [{quoted}](name=I am leaving,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EhHV3MTu,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-11-01T15:54:27.529+0000) >Whowever thinks this poster needs a punishment is simply unranked or enjoying his punushment for no reason. Hi, ranked here. Toxicity isn't okay. Not when you start it, not when you participate in it. Those are the rules of the game.
: Yes. Let's. Let's balance around the 5% who know what they're doing. The 5% who can deal with things the average player lacks the mental fortitude to deal with. The 5% who can accurately determine what is actually wrong with a character. The 5% who could actually fix problems with the game rather than shoving it deeper into a hole only to leave once Riot doesn't listen to them once. So far I have yet to see a problem with balancing around the most knowledgeable 5%.
> [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VvfktET9,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2018-10-31T20:05:02.200+0000) > > So far I have yet to see a problem with balancing around the most knowledgeable 5%. Problem #1: Without the other 95% (those dreaded _casuals_ with no "mental fortitude" among the other veiled insults in this contender for "Most Haughty Post NA 2018") buying skins and keeping the game afloat, the other 5% have no game to play. Perhaps try climbing down off the ivory tower for a moment and look at it from the standpoint of us meager peasants?
Leetri (EUW)
: The environment does matter because of the mentality. Good luck trying to seriously practice in normals when you got a 3 man premade trying out some weird stuff going "it's just Normals, man". And people who only play Ranked won't play Normals to try the new champion, they'll just wait until the champion is added to Ranked to try it.
> [{quoted}](name=Leetri,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LaLtHadb,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2018-10-31T17:04:50.743+0000) > > The environment does matter because of the mentality. Good luck trying to seriously practice in normals when you got a 3 man premade trying out some weird stuff going "it's just Normals, man". You're kidding, right? People don't even take ranked seriously. It's not like there's any downside or penalty to troll picks and screwing around in the other queue. I would make a smartass comment about asking what mythical server you're on where people actually try in their games, but you're on EUW, which has a tox and troll problem that makes NA look like the goddamn Kingsmen by comparison. > And people who only play Ranked won't play Normals to try the new champion, they'll just wait until the champion is added to Ranked to try it. I don't believe that, just because the ban rate on new champs is immediately high. Pyke was just about unplayable without racking up dodge penalties for the first month (thank god).
Ourboros (EUW)
: > Kinda like how you have to have a certain number of champs unlocked to even play ranked? Thats different, you need to purchase these champs to play, were talking about the opposite, namely forbidding you from using something you purchased > Look, if someone really wants to play the new champ, they can take it to normals. Ranked is no place for first timers on brand new champs. Whats the difference between first timing a champ thats new and one thats old?
> [{quoted}](name=Ourboros,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=R12kjNfA,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2018-10-31T16:45:07.721+0000) > > Whats the difference between first timing a champ thats new and one thats old? Complete and accurate knowledge that no, you *do not* know your champion enough yet, because it just came out three freakin' days ago.
Ourboros (EUW)
: I trust Riot that they are smart enough to never implement any restrictions on what can be played. Telling the player what they can and can't play is a super toxic philosophy. You need to be able to have niche picks, counters and so on. Imagine the enemy locking a champion and you cant counterpick because your mastery is too low. Good players with knowledge and basics will do well on any champ, so you dont need to restirct them Bad players will do bad even if you force them to practice an arbitrary amount of games, so you dont need to restrict them There are people who play hundreds of games on a champ with a 40% winrate and are still much worse than another player who first times it. Should they also be restricted from playing their champs?
> [{quoted}](name=Ourboros,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=R12kjNfA,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-10-31T16:11:59.896+0000) > > Telling the player what they can and can't play is a super toxic philosophy. Kinda like how you have to have a certain number of champs unlocked to even play ranked? Look, if someone really wants to play the new champ, they can take it to normals. Ranked is no place for first timers on brand new champs.
Ourboros (EUW)
: Such a rule would imply that picking a champ automatically makes the person a liabilty to their team. It will never be implemented because it is nonsense A new champion has to be tested out in a competetive environment, banning it from ranked for 2 weeks, means you basically just moved his release 2 weeks up, people will not spam normals to practice a new champ But condsider the following For example you yourself have a 41% winrate on Thresh across 60 games, meaning that you are inexperienced with this champ and are negativly impacting games you play, just by picking by this champion. You on this champion will do about as good as people playing a new champion, who will usually hover around a 40% winrate after being released. Should you also be restricted from playing Thresh until you have practiced more? I dont think so, you should be able to play what you want to get better. Just making sure you see the hypocrisy in your proposal
> [{quoted}](name=Ourboros,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LaLtHadb,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-10-31T12:18:59.933+0000) > > Such a rule would imply that picking a champ automatically makes the person a liabilty to their team. When the champ is brand new? As in release week? Yes, picking that champ makes you a liability to your team. You simply have not had any time to practice on it. > A new champion has to be tested out in a competetive environment, What does the "environment" have to do with learning how to play a champ? >People will not spam normals to practice a new champ They kind of have to, given the ban rates of new champs soon after release.
: > [{quoted}](name=Karunamon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGXfFxfx,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-10-30T19:38:14.856+0000) > > People keep comparing her to old nidalee because the reasoning for the nerf to her spear-chucking was centered around the fact that she could literally throw spears randomly for no downside. That's literally what the patch notes said. > > An interesting thought experiment. Bring up that patch log, and then do a find and replace - Zoe for Nidalee, Paddle Star for Spear. Note that the reasoning still holds. Zoe cant just chuck Qs at ppl like nid did. She requires set up, 2 casts of Q, and range. The fact she needs to throw the Q behind her and then cast it again makes a large difference. Its not as intuitive as you think and certainly not as easy as just pressing Q once toward a location. To add on to that fact you are also aiming twice just to get passed big minion waves or pets
> [{quoted}](name=ChristmasEvelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGXfFxfx,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2018-10-31T10:38:40.672+0000) > > Zoe cant just chuck Qs at ppl like nid did. She requires set up, 2 casts of Q, and range. Fair, but the combined travel time of a paddle star going both ways is about the same as the slow roll of a spear. Both can be fairly easily dodged as long as you see it coming. Zoe has the added disadvantage of needing to line up the cast backwards. But, IMO, that's not the main problem. The main problem is a spell that can be effectively spammed. There is almost no downside to checking bushes, over walls, etc with it. I also hate the fact that she gets rewarded for missing her E, but that's a secondary concern.
zoliking (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NAaI9dzt,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-30T20:36:55.751+0000) > > Two things, one, are you saying that you have never had games where you made stupid plays? I'm saying that people should be punished if they have a lot of games where in each they consistently make plays that are clearly identifiable to be harmful to a player of the given MMR. And no, I've never done that. > Two, how is any kind of system supposed to know that? Are you seriously asking me to design an elaborate AI system for the detection of this kind of behavior that can stand up to public scrutiny right here and now, and then present it to you in plain English? I'm not going to do that. What I can do is to tell you that this is way more easily detectable that people's intentions. At least until Riot develops mind probes and starts requiring players to wear them to play the game.
> [{quoted}](name=zoliking,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NAaI9dzt,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-30T20:48:14.531+0000) > > I'm saying that people should be punished if they have a lot of games where in each they consistently make plays that are clearly identifiable to be harmful to a player of the given MMR. They are punished - by losing LP and falling down the ladder.
: Ppl keep comparing her to old nid, but they forget it wasnt just her spear alone that made her broken. It was spear combined with heal combined with her movespeed in cougar combined with her spam hops that could go over walls making it IMPOSSIBLE to ever catch and kill her. Her heal was insane btw. About as strong as pre rework raka if not stronger, making it easy for her to go support while still chunking hp. Did i mentioned she had a free ardent since her heals also gave her AS? Zoe needs conditions and rng. She can also be camped because of those conditions. nid needed none of that and it was impossible to camp or gank her if the player had any kind of brain. So pls stop comparing the two. Their Q were the same, but thats it.
> [{quoted}](name=ChristmasEvelynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGXfFxfx,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-10-30T12:15:23.062+0000) > > Ppl keep comparing her to old nid, but they forget it wasnt just her spear alone that made her broken. People keep comparing her to old nidalee because the reasoning for the nerf to her spear-chucking was centered around the fact that she could literally throw spears randomly for no downside. That's literally what the patch notes said. An interesting thought experiment. Bring up that patch log, and then do a find and replace - Zoe for Nidalee, Paddle Star for Spear. Note that the reasoning still holds.
Pika Fox (NA)
: Because people think zoe only did 1 thing to do damage, where as people see lux doing 3. People dont realize she used 3 abilities, same as lux.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EGXfFxfx,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-10-30T15:20:27.704+0000) > > Because people think zoe only did 1 thing to do damage, where as people see lux doing 3. > > People dont realize she used 3 abilities, same as lux. 2, actually. She doesn't *need* her teleport ult to 100-0 you from the other side of a wall.
rujitra (NA)
: I very much doubt they are “running it down”. If they were, they’d be punished almost instantly after the game. Riot’s system is **very** good at detecting **legitimate** cases of “running it down”. Maybe you’re getting frustrated because they’re losing lane, they get tilted, and they can’t come back from it. **That** is not punishable.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=tocLte0a,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-10-30T18:33:08.654+0000) > > I very much doubt they are “running it down”. If they were, they’d be punished almost instantly after the game. Riot’s system is **very** good at detecting **legitimate** cases of “running it down”. > > Maybe you’re getting frustrated because they’re losing lane, they get tilted, and they can’t come back from it. **That** is not punishable. ^ Yeah, this. There are going to be a lot more.. how we say.. special cases, in ranked this this time of year since everyone comes out of the woodwork for end rewards. That said, look at some of OP's lost games. There's a MF in particular that has a habit of putting up double digit deaths - and they're in Gold 3 and generally keep positive KDA, so they know better. 3/16/1 is immediately suspect - that's basically a death every two minutes.
ziHuni (NA)
: The "system" promotes not communicating in a team-based game. I don't see how that is fair. Punishing toxic people is good, but having everyone not talk and mute each other in fear of their rewards being taken away is absurd.
> [{quoted}](name=ziHuni,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HZVoE4EW,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2018-10-30T07:56:52.330+0000) > > The "system" promotes not communicating in a team-based game. I don't see how that is fair. Punishing toxic people is good, but having everyone not talk and mute each other in fear of their rewards being taken away is absurd. The system promotes not chatting unless your chat is positive and friendly. Read the [summoner's code](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/get-started/summoners-code/) some time.
: UNTRUE. I went from full honor straight to a 2 weeks ban, for constantly telling people that even if they reported me, the system doesn't work. I don't think I ever told people to kill themselves since that's way too dickish.
> [{quoted}](name=LunSeiSleidee,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HZVoE4EW,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-10-30T08:29:09.483+0000) > > UNTRUE. I went from full honor straight to a 2 weeks ban, for constantly telling people that even if they reported me, the system doesn't work. I don't think I ever told people to kill themselves since that's way too dickish. I'd bet anything you used a zero tolerance phrase. Honor isn't tied into the punishment ladder in that way.
: Wrong. I just got chat restricted for telling my team to report a smurf who afked/inted/verbal abused me while he got off scot free. Click my name to find the post of chat log. This system is backwards.
> [{quoted}](name=unhinged killer,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HZVoE4EW,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-10-30T17:34:52.165+0000) > > Wrong. I just got chat restricted for telling my team to report a smurf who afked/inted/verbal abused me while he got off scot free. As you should have, because demanding reports is both pointless (since number of reports in a game is irrelevant - your single report does the exact same thing that your entire team and the entire rest of the enemy team does), and flamebait. You're using the existence of the report feature to harass another player.
: Their bronze 2 was probably duoing with the diamond cause it was well a normal game and they might not have been able to find another diamond player at the time so to cut down on the que time they threw in two gold players to help balance it out.
> [{quoted}](name=OniZetsu666,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LyhiA8vH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-29T06:17:10.949+0000) > > Their bronze 2 was probably duoing with the diamond cause it was well a normal game and they might not have been able to find another diamond player at the time so to cut down on the que time they threw in two gold players to help balance it out. The fact that this makes sense is like a ship's wheel in my trousers. It drives me nuts. Better games > queue times, every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
: Just ANOTHER post complaining about matchmaking.
Everything about this is fucked up. That D5 player should have pushed the average skill their team was matched against somewhere into plat. Riot, buddy, pal, people don't forget how to play the game just because they clicked on "normal" instead of "ranked".
: there is trash talking in almost every sport and video game idk league is one of the only one ive played in that bans you for talking to your teammates
> [{quoted}](name=Dark Royalty,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=qgl14anG,comment-id=000f000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-26T01:53:09.119+0000) > > there is trash talking in almost every sport and video game idk league is one of the only one ive played in that bans you for talking to your teammates Almost like there's a difference between trash talking and toxicity, and it's really easy to stay on the right side of it.
: the problem is that your parents told you, you were special too many times and can't handle any criticisms in any form without crying toxic
> [{quoted}](name=PlebonicEbonic,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=qgl14anG,comment-id=000f000000000001,timestamp=2018-10-26T07:28:15.940+0000) > > the problem is that your parents told you, you were special too many times and can't handle any criticisms in any form without crying toxic Sorry you can't handle playing by the rules you agreed to brah
: Honor Progression apparently scales with game length like exp.
Interesting info - I need to add this to the chart! I've got a bit of a harebrained theory on how honor works now. At least, this is how I would set it up based on ease of programming. Tantram is either going to look at this and chuckle knowingly to himself, or wonder how I figured it out. Probably the first one :) ## Take this for the ass-pull that it is. --- Honor Theory There are four variables in play for honor: - An overall honor score that underpins your honor level (hidden, like how there's an MMR number that underpins your league). - Your honor gained per game, which is a function of how many honors you get, and the all-honor bonus. - A factor which goes up or down based on game length - A factor which the gains are multiplied by that represents your punishment history. Let's put some fake numbers to these to make this theory easier to talk about: * Honor score is divided into tiers of 1000. 0 to 1000 is honor level 1, 1001-2000 is honor level 2, and so forth. * Checkpoints are at every 250 points. 3250 is honor level 3, checkpoint 1, and so on. * Honor gains grow geometrically. 1 honor might be worth 10 points, 2 honors worth 20, 3 honors (which triggers the 'most honorable on team' graphic) worth 40, 4 honors worth 80. An extra 10 points is given if everybody in on your team honors someone. * Premade honors are worth zero. * The factor starts off at something like .5 (half awards) for a game that goes only 20 minutes, smoothly scaling up to 1.0 for average game length (around 30 minutes), and perhaps going up to 1.2 for extremely long games like 45 minutes. * No honor is gained if nobody picks you. So. Pretend that you're a fresh account on honor level 2. You have an honor score of 2000. If you pull no reports, it will take you about 25 games of average length, getting honored on each one, to hit the first checkpoint. About 100 games, getting honored on each one, to level up. This cap also explains a convenient way that honor gains are locked out if you hit zero - the "locked" represents the negative factor blocking your gains. Valid reports apply a negative factor to your gains. You're still getting them, but you're getting them slower. Punishments apply a large negative factor *AND* remove your honor points. # TL;DR: Honor MAY equal: (Honor from teammates) x (Length factor) x (Punishment factor) = Total game honor * Where honor from teammates is a whole number from 10 to 90 * Length factor is a decimal between 0.5 and 1.2, increasing as the game progresses. * Punishment factor is an decimal between 1 and 0, decreasing as you recieve valid reports. I think this is how it works because it mirrors systems that already exist in game, like damage scaling and MMR.
: That is a terrible argument. If you were assaulted verbally or physically and acted in self defense, and judicial system would not ignore the context of the situation. If someone says something racially or personally offensive and the other person finds personal problems and retorts to argue against them, that person would never receive judicial punishment. You see this when Phreak responds to Tyler1 and states he "has no personality." Riot did not punish him because of the context of the situation and the reciprocal nature of the response to protect his own image.
> [{quoted}](name=adc or a dc,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=qgl14anG,comment-id=001200000000,timestamp=2018-10-25T17:57:05.969+0000) > > That is a terrible argument. If you were assaulted verbally # There is no such thing as "self defense" from words on a screen. If someone annoys you, you mute them, you don't start with the BS flaming yourself, thereby giving the other 3 people on your team more tilt-bait and a second person to mute. Stop making excuses for having zero self control. If you can't exercise the bare minimum level of self-control necessary to not type certain things on a computer, go play another game.
: Sounds like a fair and mature way to prove authoritarian policies make the world go round, instead of at least trying to grasp for a straw of player fairness :^) Not saying this idea is perfect, but game companies in general need to start pushing in a way that revolves around player care in both balance and policing. Riot does not do that currently, so maybe at least hypothetical situations could be talked about?
> [{quoted}](name=SaItySion,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=kibA4mAK,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2018-10-25T13:04:30.265+0000) > > Sounds like a fair and mature way to prove authoritarian policies make the world go round, instead of at least trying to grasp for a straw of player fairness :^) The system is perfectly fair. You treat other people like shit, you get punished, harder and harder until you either stop treating other people like shit, or get banned.
: Exact quote of game loading "Tip" -- "If someone makes you feel uncomfortable in game, report them"
>It sets an extremely low bar for people to report their allies, encouraging people to report teammates for literally anything at all. True, but given that bogus reports do literally nothing, what's the harm?
: ^^^ idk why people get offended by what some random on the internet says about them.
The problem is that you think its about offense rather than atmosphere and sportsmanship.
: Riot Support is so terrible. They never look into the context. They won't read the other person's chat or look into any inting cases. After following roughly 25 accounts in the past for threatening to kill me, my family, raping my mother, or using racist/hate speech slurs in derogatory ways repeatedly..... I came to realize Riot Support and the ban system are terrible when I got 14-day ban for a lesser offense as my first punishment ever on a 7 year old account with no prior warning. I even showed Riot Support a couple of these cases through tickets. I guess I didn't say %%%%%% or %%%%%% enough times to lower my punishment down to a 10-day chat restriction or avoid punishment all together. All of those accounts that I followed.... They remained active so I know none of them received the same punishment as me. Instigator always gets away it seems.
> [{quoted}](name=Pandemic Punch,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=qgl14anG,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2018-10-25T10:18:03.645+0000) > > They won't read the other person's chat Nor should they. The other person's chat is literally irrelevant when the issue that got you banned is *your* chat.
Michyon (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Karunamon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=JpzGsHLg,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2018-10-23T21:04:01.535+0000) > > I question how low-population it would be. We could also frontload it - everyone with a punishment on record in the last year AND is under honor 2 gets automatically placed in this queue starting next season. > > I'd be okay with a ranked ban, but premades only is probably a step too far. If someone is required to jump through that many hoops, just ban them and be done with it. Im sorry u got banned mate. I got banned today too, and Thats how i found out about yours. If the ban sticks or turns perma, and riot doesn't fix it charge back riot (as a very last case scenario). Don't let the TOS fool you into thinking that they can get away with this shit there are consumer protection laws in place, and despite what trolls will say, you will get your money back.
> [{quoted}](name=Michyon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=JpzGsHLg,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2018-10-23T21:07:25.562+0000) > > Im sorry u got banned mate. I got banned today too, and Thats how i found out about yours. If the ban sticks or turns perma, and riot doesn't fix it charge back riot (as a very last case scenario). Don't let the TOS fool you into thinking that they can get away with this shit there are consumer protection laws in place, and despite what trolls will say, you will get your money back. I think you're responding to the wrong person guy :) I would recommend against charging back, though. You *did* sign a legal agreement that lays out your access to the services, and any such charge back would be fraud.
: > [{quoted}](name=SonicAF,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=JpzGsHLg,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-10-23T18:20:40.087+0000)It would be comparable to playing on a less populated server. It would also be compensated by players like me, who value their own definition of comfort and play there voluntarily. That still reduces the game quality for everyone though, especially if people voluntarily leave the normal queue. The net result is less balanced games for *everyone*. > This suggestion is only for permabanned players, the ones Riot gives up on. Ah. I still think that's fundamentally problematic though, because Riot has a specific community they want in their game, and that community *does not include this sort of behavior*. If they *wanted* those players to remain, they'd allow them do. The simple fact is that they do not want that behavior anywhere on their platform.
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=JpzGsHLg,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2018-10-23T19:31:21.126+0000) > The simple fact is that they do not want that behavior anywhere on their platform. And yet the extent of Riot's actions on the matter are killing the account. There isn't little effort put into keeping banned players off the platform, there is **zero**. I think the excuses why this isn't done amount to a lack of will to do so (banned players rebuying stuff = $$$) and a lack of creativity. No, you can't rely on IP addresses. But IP addresses, with an email, with a hardware hash, with play style (the kind that's already tracked to detect account sharing) is significantly more so. It doesn't need to be perfect. We can start with a bar so low an ant could limbo under it, rather than the **literal nothing** that exists today.
Subdue (NA)
: Climbing ranked would be too easy in such a low population queue, which would be quite unfair. Such players should not have access to any form of ranked solo queue, or even non-premade normals. However, I don't mind the idea of allowing such players to play on full premade teams, provided that any lobby with such a player in it has a disclaimer to the effect of "I understand that (player) is in a permanently penalized state. I understand that reporting (player) will have no effect as (player) is already at the highest penalty afforded by the system...etc"
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=JpzGsHLg,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-10-23T19:36:52.159+0000) > > Climbing ranked would be too easy in such a low population queue, which would be quite unfair. I question how low-population it would be. We could also frontload it - everyone with a punishment on record in the last year AND is under honor 2 gets automatically placed in this queue starting next season. >Such players should not have access to any form of ranked solo queue, or even non-premade normals. I'd be okay with a ranked ban, but premades only is probably a step too far. If someone is required to jump through that many hoops, just ban them and be done with it.
: Yes it is, and i hate it! I can understand punishing people for leaving etc, that why it's needed... "Punishing" people because of connections issues or power going off like in your case is kinda borderline, but needed, otherwise it's gonna be abused. And then... Giving low priority queue because of problems within the client (which is always why i get "punished" btw, i would never dodge or leave intentionally and pc/connections are fine too) is simply stupid, imho. I'm not an expert, so i just hope they'll find a way to distinguish people who actually need the punishment and simple victims that happen to have bad luck for 2/3 games and then find themself in low priority queue...
> [{quoted}](name=J0hnJ0estar,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=pUIUv06B,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-10-23T14:25:15.560+0000) > > "Punishing" people because of connections issues or power going off like in your case is kinda borderline, but needed, otherwise it's gonna be abused. > > And then... > Giving low priority queue because of problems within the client (which is always why i get "punished" btw, i would never dodge or leave intentionally and pc/connections are fine too) is simply stupid, imho. There is no way to tell the difference. This is a problem that will never be solved without telepathy, it is possible to induce a disconnect in about a bajillion ways, and most of them can be made to look like a problem outside of your control. If you're having crashes, fix your computer. If you have dodgy power, buy a UPS. If you can't do either of those things, team-based games where your presence is required for roughly half an hour may not be for you.
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Karunamon

Level 61 (NA)
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