: Riot writers, what do you have against the "usual" good guys?
The common trope among writers in the gaming industry these days is to be idealogues, and I mean that in the sense that, they only tell half the story. They don't see culture as a combination of the symbols of the wise king and tyrannical king, they see it as only the tyrannical king. They don't see the nurturing Mother Nature and the Devouring Mother Nature, they only see the Devouring Mother Nature. So their world view is that society is trying to push you down and demean you, and that nature is just trying to kill you. Dawnbreaker Riven and Demonblade(?) Yasuo are prime examples of this. The 'light' was tyrannical, and the 'dark' was destruction. They don't see the Wise King that pushes you to better yourself, they don't see the Nurturing Mother that cares for you and is a place of solace. They're nihilistic and believe that they're being deep by saying that 'there are an infinite number of perspectives and all perspectives are equal, and no canon perspective exists." The problem is that without a canon perspective, you can't act, you don't have a goal, a way to push forward. So your perspective needs to give you a goal, but your goal can't trample on other people's goals because that's immoral, so your goal needs to work alongside the goal of others around you, and your goal can't end in your own death, and your goal needs to improve your life, and not make other people's lives worse. So, in the end, your viable perspectives are massively limited.
Jikker (NA)
: Is the Dark Side truly evil or is it uncontrolled Dark Side that brings about the evil actions? Is the Light Side truly good or are they in their own way somewhat sinister and unfeeling towards others which brings about a greater darkness? Is it the person or the actions that are evil? See this is why I love both KOTOR games because, especially 2, really explore this concept. I like how you guys are bringing in these more grey areas to show that (with a few possible exceptions such as celestial/void beings) there are no black/white good/evil people. Everyone has their shadows and everyone, from their perspectives, has their shining light moments. In the end, everyone is just trying to do what they feel is right or correct and that is a very murky grey area when it comes to morals. No one is perfect and I don't think any of the champions should really be either. This is my way of saying +1 with the lore lately and I very much appreciate the way you are interpreting things and allowing for character growth. (still unsure about those butt wings though)
> [{quoted}](name=Jikker,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=0IEctYqf,comment-id=000100030000000a,timestamp=2019-02-19T22:08:21.993+0000) > > Is the Dark Side truly evil or is it uncontrolled Dark Side that brings about the evil actions? Is the Light Side truly good or are they in their own way somewhat sinister and unfeeling towards others which brings about a greater darkness? Is it the person or the actions that are evil? > > See this is why I love both KOTOR games because, especially 2, really explore this concept. I like how you guys are bringing in these more grey areas to show that (with a few possible exceptions such as celestial/void beings) there are no black/white good/evil people. Everyone has their shadows and everyone, from their perspectives, has their shining light moments. In the end, everyone is just trying to do what they feel is right or correct and that is a very murky grey area when it comes to morals. No one is perfect and I don't think any of the champions should really be either. > > This is my way of saying +1 with the lore lately and I very much appreciate the way you are interpreting things and allowing for character growth. > > (still unsure about those butt wings though) Hold on hold on hold on hold on hold on, KotOR1 and 2 are my favorite pieces of Star Wars writing and a wholly disagree with your assessment of them. These games enable you to make choices that push you to either side of the spectrum of 'light side' vs 'dark side', however, they are very very clear which actions are good and which actions are evil and very very very clear that 'light side points gained' means you behaved heroically, and 'dark side points gained' means you behaved maliciously. KotOR 1 in particular was a redemption story of someone that went to the Dark Side, now, I love Neutral Revan, and I did like Revan in the Foundry of tOR despite how much I dislike most of that game. But they were still immensely clear that Revan was evil while he was Darth Revan, even though he was doing it to fight the real Sith, and that he was planning on committing evil in The Foundry in tOR for the sake of 'greater good'. THey did not, AT ALL, try and make you question what is good and evil. Kreia makes you question whether your actions will truly make the galaxy a better place, but she also makes it very clear at the end of the game that she's doing it to try and get you on her side. Overall, KotOR 2 is actually about creating a better Jedi Order from the Ashes of the one that fell in KotOR 1. It's a Christian Reformation for Jedi.
: not sheogorath? im disappointed
> [{quoted}](name=reaperteaser,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=JZszf0Q9,comment-id=00020003,timestamp=2017-06-20T14:32:57.405+0000) > > not sheogorath? im disappointed To be fair, Sheogorath is chaos, which interestingly enough, is more example of this post. Far more people talk about Sheogorath than the other Daedric Princes
: Edgy teens exist and in large numbers. Personally I think both sides are wrong, but in general I pick the side of order. In this case not only do they have more agreeable morals, but they have the better color (blue) and League's bestgirl (Riven, fight me if you disagree). I also want to make a correction regarding something you said near the top of your post: In World of Warcraft the Horde actually doesn't "heavily outweigh" the Alliance. Depending on what level range you sample from, the split is only ever 52/48 or 48/52 at most. At level cap 51.5% of players are Horde, but if you take the whole of all characters the Alliance take that same majority. Basically what I'm saying is it's pretty much an even split. [These numbers are among US realms, but it's more or less the same on EU realms.](https://realmpop.com/)
> [{quoted}](name=Windy Ronin,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=JZszf0Q9,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-06-20T14:58:19.566+0000) > > Edgy teens exist and in large numbers. Personally I think both sides are wrong, but in general I pick the side of order. In this case not only do they have more agreeable morals, but they have the better color (blue) and League's bestgirl (Riven, fight me if you disagree). > > I also want to make a correction regarding something you said near the top of your post: > > In World of Warcraft the Horde actually doesn't "heavily outweigh" the Alliance. Depending on what level range you sample from, the split is only ever 52/48 or 48/52 at most. At level cap 51.5% of players are Horde, but if you take the whole of all characters the Alliance take that same majority. Basically what I'm saying is it's pretty much an even split. [These numbers are among US realms, but it's more or less the same on EU realms.](https://realmpop.com/) I do have to point out a few things with that, however. This shows a raw number of characters based on a variety of factors. I for example, have three horde characters that are all in a guild that I never play. But that website counts them into the population. This does not show active players, nor does it show which characters an individual player mains. It's a very inconclusive chart at best. Plus, in WoW's case, towards the end of Pandaria a very drastically high number of players faction switched for racials, and never bothered switching back, so that screws numbers relevant to this post anyway. (Many PvP'ers switched to Human for racial, many many PvE'rs switched to Orc/Troll for their racials.)
SEKAI (OCE)
: Except the Horde is actually the good guys in WoW, and almost all of the objectively evil deeds done by Horde was either not technically their own fault or something completely out of their control (or at least for the most of their population); unlike Alliance which has a somewhat solid reputation of bad and questionable behaviours even at the civilian level. The only exception is really Garrosh (and so handful of others), because he mad. There is a reason why Blizz made 2 expansions back-to-back with Garrosh rampaging and made Horde look like a bunch of twats and brutes, because Horde has been too _good_ until then. So not entirely true.
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=JZszf0Q9,comment-id=002b,timestamp=2017-06-20T18:20:06.379+0000) > > Except the Horde is actually the good guys in WoW, and almost all of the objectively evil deeds done by Horde was either not technically their own fault or something completely out of their control (or at least for the most of their population); unlike Alliance which has a somewhat solid reputation of bad and questionable behaviours even at the civilian level. The only exception is really Garrosh (and so handful of others), because he mad. There is a reason why Blizz made 2 expansions back-to-back with Garrosh rampaging and made Horde look like a bunch of twats and brutes, because Horde has been too _good_ until then. > > So not entirely true. Gul'dan: 1: Led the orcs into demonic slavery, 2: Summoned them into Azeroth. Ner'zhul: 1: Tore apart Draenor in a foolish attempt to escape to other worlds. 2: Became the Lich King. 3: Turned Arthas to evil Grom Hellscream: 1. Sealed the Orc's fate by drinking the blood of Mannaroth. 2: Did it AGAIN despite fully knowing the consequences that occured the first time. He at least redeemed himself, however. Dragonmaw clan: Enslaved the red dragons before, now currently enslaving black dragons and are a part of the NEW horde. Grimtotem clan of Tauren: Assassinated Cairne Bloodhoof Quel'Thalas (Blood Elves): Captured a Naaru, a being of benevolence and light, and drained the light from it by force until a new sunwell was made Kael'Thas: Turned to demonic powers after the sunwell was first destroyed, then eventually came to serve Kil'jaeden eredar lord of the burning legion. Forsaken: Claimed the kingdom of Lordaeran as their home Live by the creed to slaughter any whom stand in the way of their dominion Started to research a version of the scourge plague that can be used on both the scourge and the living. Set up a base for teh royal apothecary society in Howling Fjord with the explicit intention of testing said scourge The scourge was then USED on Horde, Alliance, and Scourge forces alike at the battle of the wrath gate. You could say that it was all Putress, but remember that it was Sylvanas who had them research the plague to begin with. Starts turning random dead people into Forsaken against their will Used said plague on Gilneas for the sole purpose of bolstering their own numbers. Have begun to sacrifice living people to extend their lives. Since becoming Warchief of the Horde Sylvanas has also: Made a deal with Helya, who works for the old gods. Attempted to enslave Eyir, goddess of the valkyra, for her selfish need for immortality, and to create more forsaken. And this is off the top of my head, as an alliance player, that hasn't done the horde quests, completely ignoring Garrosh's actions. As you will note, even some of the 'Alliance' villians, such as Arthas, were actually manipulated into that role by Ner'Zul, an orc. So no, Horde aren't 'the good guys' The entire point of the two factions is that there is good and evil in both, and that is always Blizzard's goal.
: well, i didn't get it, then again i'm me the most uncultered dude
https://youtu.be/CCrbT_sJqE4
: This so much I am actually fucking sick of fiction trying to be so unpredictable or edgy that it's always predictable and standardized. Like I'm legitimately sick of modern writers. Sometimes it's okay just to write a good guy sometimes it's okay just the right in expected concept. I seriously freaking wish that this skin hood release separate of some retarded event so they could have just made an angel Riven instead of having to try to make her comparable to another side. Lake holy fuck this skin release pisses me off.
I agree, Riven should have been JUSTICE ITSELF! Instead of being tied to some stupid edgy event with a predictable outcome.
: They just showed 2 not-so-good sides of both Order and Chaos. Even in my teen years I've always rooted for the good guys (even if one of my favorite characters ever is Ozymandias from "Watchmen") and still I'd choose Order over Chaos. My choice of rooting for Chaos is simply because I like Yasuo more and I play him more than Riven. Had them be Order {{champion:126}} and Chaos {{champion:112}} I'd ~~had~~ have chosen Order. _(Hope I got the grammar right in that last sentence)_
I feel like that's just it though, in the end, competitions like this are always a farce because it's not about who would choose what. It's usually won by some unrelated thing, like, there being more Yasuo players than Riven. Or because they like the rewards more. Very very few of the players actually care about the lore of this event.
Sahn Uzal (EUW)
: First off, Interesting read > I work two jobs and go to school. My op.gg will tell I do not have much time for LoL compared to dedicated players. I feel ya :l As far as my view goes, I usually prefer the morally grey characters. I may think Molag Bal is a cooler Daedric Prince than Meridia, but Hircine is still my favorite by far, the fact that he's not directly evil like most daedric princes is a big reason for that :P I suppose I do lean more to the Villain characters tho, considering I main two of the more... Evil characters in LoL , being GP and Sion :P
Yeah and you can see it with Elder Scrolls also, though, where Sheogorath is one of the fanbases favorite Daedric princes.
: If you have to decide between Chaos and Order
Silly pun aside. In the setting given to us. The choice is to follow a genuinely good-hearted girl lead us to a better future, in exchange for some stricter rules. Or follow Edgy McEdgelord that is going to destroy everything we love, then create a world of chaos, and with the second law of thermodynamics, a world of chaos would quickly reach total entropy, and thus heat death of the universe. Besides, there are also people like this on order. https://images5.alphacoders.com/654/thumb-1920-654374.jpg
: Horde vs Alliance, Jedi vs Sith, Lissandra vs Ashe. Calling it now, Yasuo wins
Yeah... Sadly that's the trend that all of these things take among gamers. Empire vs Stormcloaks among that as well.
: Nobody is ever going to ping again...
Yeah... Going to have to do something about the definition of 'refusing to communicate with team.' Because otherwise people will be banned for opting out of being thrown off their game over immature voice chat.
: Yeah but those traits all also make her impossible to balance between low and high elo, and make her snowballing potential(both for her and against her) pretty ridiculous unless the person playing her is a riven main in high diamond or master/challenger
> [{quoted}](name=doodlebob666,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nK07rpiK,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-05-25T02:06:45.118+0000) > > Yeah but those traits all also make her impossible to balance between low and high elo, and make her snowballing potential(both for her and against her) pretty ridiculous unless the person playing her is a riven main in high diamond or master/challenger Not true, it's the mechanics of her kit that cause the disparity, not the overall design of the champion.
: On champions with a dash-to-ally abilities...
The amount of unbelievable times that I've had people sit just out of shunpo range is insane. So yes, this would be amazing.
AmazoX (EUW)
: How your main would confess love
{{champion:55}} "Killing is my duty, fun is yelling." Katarina disappears and you feel a knife at your throat, before it disappears and the assassin playfully kisses your cheek. "Surprise~!" {{champion:38}} "..." Kassadin disappears through a rip in the fabric of space. {{champion:78}} "I'm not sure what it is exactly but..." She squirms a little nervously. "I like you." She then looks away and picks up her hammer and continues her journey to find the hero.
: How much DPS can a tank take in a Patchwork Fight?
I don't get this perception about tanks dying super fast. Whenever I play Poppy I feel invincible.
: Your main(s) have lost their house, and you've agreed to let them live with you for a month
{{champion:38}} Discuss the intricacies of magic, creation, the void, and theorize about physics in a world of magic. House would probably look pretty similar. Interesting, and fun if void things happen. {{champion:78}} Feed lots of delicious food and pat her head a lot. There would probably be a wall from crushing spiderbro... Overall fun though. {{champion:55}} She'd complain about my meager living conditions, and either hate me or be my friend. Probably the same house overall. Unsure, I could be dead.
: maybe so.. but as we seen with most of the reworks ( at least to me) even though good in concept an theory they arent the same champs... they are new champs with name of older champs that dont exist gailo , taric to me are the worst of this effect.
> [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JwGJVmkL,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-04-14T02:58:26.727+0000) > > maybe so.. but as we seen with most of the reworks ( at least to me) even though good in concept an theory they arent the same champs... they are new champs with name of older champs that dont exist > > gailo , taric to me are the worst of this effect. Poppy was the same champion to me.
: Just make Riftwalk delayed He phases out for a second, gives you a telegraph where he's gonna go, and then he goes there. and that's it, that's all you really need to do as far as rift walk is concerned. beyond that he really just needs a new passive. don't take anti-mage away from him
> [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JwGJVmkL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-04-14T02:56:05.478+0000) > > Just make Riftwalk delayed > > He phases out for a second, gives you a telegraph where he's gonna go, and then he goes there. and that's it, that's all you really need to do as far as rift walk is concerned. beyond that he really just needs a new passive. > > don't take anti-mage away from him That sounds even more toxic. Because that means I can now use it to dodge certain kind of attacks like Master Yi does with his Q and I really don't need that.
: I think Kassadin needs a Sion/Poppy/Galio level rework
I most definitely agree. I was thinking the other night that Kassadin is still really strong late game, and is actually surprisingly powerful early game, but his midgame is kinda bad. But, if they were to buff him in just about any way he's going to be insane again due to just how his kit functions. 66% of his damage is still from safety, and with the strength of his ability to reposition mid fight means he can always be safe as long as you play him patiently enough.
: Cho'Gal is a hero from Heroes of the Storm. Riot promised to never make a champion like him or lost vikings. Imagine if you put Brand inside Nautilus. Nautilus controls the movement and his spells, Brand controls his spells and summoners. Double Naut HP pool. They cannot separate. Brand is immune to CC as he is in Naut. They die together. But now you effectively only have 4 bodies on the map. A duo partners play them together. That is Cho'gal. Simultaneously overbearing while being shitty for his team most of the time.
Pretty much this. In HotS, Cho'gall isn't overpowered from an overall game standpoint, since having two people stuck at the hip is terrible for objective control But to have to fight Cho'gall in lane is the most miserable experience in that game. Though recent changes to his passive might have helped with that.
: We need a Valkyrie champion!
Yassss Valkyrie is best mythological warrior. I want this champion fantasy so badly. Powerful, grand, and those that choose whom are worthy.
: "With Power and precision..." Riot on Ashe
Yeahhhhh, I wish Ashe's gameplay fit her fantasy.
: Yes, I come from an RTS background. I understand fully turn speed. I consider it a crappy mechanic. As a former athlete and martial artist I find it is very easy to turn in an instant. Heck, even an out-of-shape nerd can turn in a split second if they try. I prefer games without turnspeed. What is more, that alone wouldn't fix the problems with range vs melee in LoL anyway. But it would make kiting late game nearly impossible.
> [{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pq6nvy4l,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-03T06:02:49.404+0000) > > Yes, I come from an RTS background. I understand fully turn speed. I consider it a crappy mechanic. As a former athlete and martial artist I find it is very easy to turn in an instant. Heck, even an out-of-shape nerd can turn in a split second if they try. I prefer games without turnspeed. > > What is more, that alone wouldn't fix the problems with range vs melee in LoL anyway. But it would make kiting late game nearly impossible. I feel like it's important to note for clarity that it would have been a viable fix 100 champions ago. But nowadays, if they just added turn speed, which as has been mentioned would likely require a new engine, though some turn speed mechanics do exist right now. (Vel'koz ult), it would actually kill the balance of any champion that needs to kite, which is basically all ranged, because the mobility of mobility champs, which is a lot now, is balanced against current kiting power. So in the game's current state, turn speed would make late game kiting nigh impossible, and would require a full rebalance of the game anyway. Personally, if I were to rebalance the game I would tone down the min/max nature of the marksman and rebalance the game around the lessened existence of the role of 'carry'
: There is no such thing as "Just defend!" anymore...
Yeah, some of my favorite moments playing league come from hunkering down and pulling off the most intense defenses and turning it around into a victory. These days I never feel like games are even close anymore. Like, if we're winning, we're STOMPING, if we're losing we're getting stomped.
: Why do you play your primary role, and would you ever consider changing it?
Assassin/mid because that's were the characters I like most are (kass/kat). My role choice is dependent on which champions champions I like, so, I would change if a champion I loved was released elsewhere or Kassadin was reworked into a skirmisher
: If Riot made another Runeterran based game, which would you prefer?
Oh hell yes, a Pen and Paper style RPG like Balder's Gate would be amazing in League.
: Nobody seems to care about Tryndamere's character since his Lore was changed
Well yeah, his original lore had him learning from many mentors to become a man of incredible strength and unbreakable will His new lore has a man that surrendered to his wrath fighting an anime antagonist and mysteriously gained powers because of it, who then proceeded to already be stronger than all of those mentors of his old lore. His original lore was much more relatable and inspiriing. His new lore is edgy like some kind of sonic oc.
: A bit of confusion about Ashe
Yeah, I totally agree, I would love an Ashe more in line with how she's portrayed in her art and lore
: Remember how fun tank meta was?
Yeah, I'm not sure why anyone would want a meta where mechanical skill is echewed in favor of pure stats. I thought we were playing a MOBA, not Final Fantasy
: Why League should be balanced for challenger/master
Well thought out reasoning, I enjoy the chess analogy, which is rather fitting for the subject matter.
: Some Clarity on Riven
Very in depth, covers a lot of ground. Good post!
: Tanks are the healthiest class in LoL
I think when discussing a topic like this, which is heavily related to Riot's decision to change the mid-season class update, there are a few things to consider. 1. Tanks seem to overall to be in a good spot. Outliers such as Poppy and Zac are too strong, and Nunu too weak. 2. The issues with these outliers do not need a full class overall to fix. 3. If tanks are too tanky, then number tweaks on items can be an easy fix. 4. Divers don't have a solid position. You go from completely insane like Vi, Hecarim, Lee sin, to utter garbage like Aatrox, there really is no middle ground. 5. If items allow Divers to be strong, they tend to be WAY TOO strong, if they're too weak, they tend to be useless. To me, this seems like the priority should really be divers, unless everyone really wants another season of Vi, Hec, and Lee Sin in every single game and not be able to play champions like Aatrox or Evelynn.
: The real buff Garen's kit needs is...
[Hhhehehe](http://i.imgur.com/aAiDpjW.jpg)
: I didn't say steal mana, I said do extra damage vs champs with a lot of it. Ryze and Cass, Xerath, etc probably isn't going to get his silence back unless it's on a skillshot or requires he do a lot of work to actually proc it
> [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iPLJdJPl,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-09T17:38:46.585+0000) > > I didn't say steal mana, I said do extra damage vs champs with a lot of it. Ryze and Cass, Xerath, etc > > probably isn't going to get his silence back unless it's on a skillshot or requires he do a lot of work to actually proc it Well again, he doesn't need to have some kind of effect on someone with mana, he just needs to be able to help his team deal with mages. Old Kass was good at it, but absurd scalings and base damages made him too strong. I would put it on his W in his current design. That way he has to jump directly on top of his target to silence them. But, I would rather rework him entirely and approach anti-mage from a different direction at this point.
: I mean punishing mana would work out well enough, balance it off % of mana pool or do damage based on how much mana they just used - mages have usually had higher mana costs so it gives him a clear target compared to say Darius, who has very low costs problem is balancing that vs not doing any at all to someone who has no costs to care about
> [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iPLJdJPl,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-09T17:14:05.441+0000) > > I mean punishing mana would work out well enough, balance it off % of mana pool or do damage based on how much mana they just used - mages have usually had higher mana costs so it gives him a clear target compared to say Darius, who has very low costs > > problem is balancing that vs not doing any at all to someone who has no costs to care about Again, OP was not talking about how Kassadin should have the same design that he did previously though. He doesn't need to steal mana to gain back that 'anti-mage' feel. A big part of what made him a disabler was his ability to fight mages, which was through his silence which stopped a mage's kit and gave him time to act against what would otherwise be the mage's death combo. What made him broken was that he did this with a point and click ability while also having very high mobility and very very high scaling and high base damages. There have been other champions in the game with CC's just as long and as strong or stronger than Kassadin's silence. Cho'gath, Rammus, but nobody ever complained about them. This is simply because Cho lacked the mobility, and Rammus lacked the damage. Kassadin brought lockdown, mobility, _and_ damage, and that's what made him broken. For an 'anti-mage', especially in a team based game like League of Legends, you don't _need_ to deal high damage. What you need are tools to give your team a way to fight mages. Especially since Kassadin literally replaces the mage spot on your team. Unless you have a mage-support these days but that's not Kassadin's fault :v How do you fight mages? You stop them from blowing their whole kit at once, lock them down, seperate them, and bring them down when they don't have team support. If it wasn't for Kassadin's scalings, his old kit was great at this. An teleport to position, an E to slow a team, and a silence to stop the mage. Now... He jumps in and hopes that Brand isn't paying enough attention to E-Q in time.
: no way in fuck that Kass should ever be balanced as a bruiser or remotely tanky champion also that being a champ who punishes magic/ mana users just doesn't really work when Riot decided energy and resourceless champions would be a good idea
> [{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iPLJdJPl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-09T17:03:23.517+0000) > > no way in fuck that Kass should ever be balanced as a bruiser or remotely tanky champion > > also that being a champ who punishes magic/ mana users just doesn't really work when Riot decided energy and resourceless champions would be a good idea You're missing the point. The point isn't that Kassadin should have his original design. The point is that Kassadin's identity was 'anti-mage' and due to his absurd scalings and old design, the community just played him as an assasin. Instead of fixing his identity, Riot just said 'he's an assassin now'. Afterward, to fix his toxic, never-designed-as-an-assassin gameplay, the gutted his kit, and by extension, his identity. Even AFTER the rework, Riot said that he was an anti-mage assassin, hence why his Q has that magic damage shield. Yes, every time I play him, it feels like I'm _way_ stronger against champions like Yasuo than Brand. He's not an anti-mage, he has no tools to deal with spellcasters aside from a shield that doesn't even absorb one spell, and overall he's now just an generic AP assassin. He's not the the champion I used to position to correctly place a silence on the enemy annie so my team could swoop in and kill crucial targets before tibbers lands on them. He's not the badass that disables his opponents for his team that I started playing this game with. He's not _Kassadin_ .
: http://i.imgur.com/bofUVay.gif?noredirect
: League is a Holy Trinity Force of Strategy, Fighting and Stats
I love this perspective. I've had a problem with understanding this very thing. This is a new perspective that has opened my mind to so many aspects of game design that I hadn't thought of before. I especially love how actually very fitting comparison {{item:3078}} and it's components are. {{item:3044}} Mostly all stats, also typically very good on those types of champions that like to beat you over the face with their stats. {{item:3101}} Attack speed, more autos, and faster animations, good for weaving in attacks with movement, plus cdr for more abilities. {{item:3057}} Mana CDR, but it's passive favors opportune and strategic moments for engagement.
: "[current season] is the worst and I'd prefer [previous season]" has been said every season since S2. * S7, so far, has more class diversity since forever. Even the outliers like Lee and Cait aren't nearly as polarizing as prior season's problem children.
> [{quoted}](name=Surfer Ashe,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Or9GoOEw,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-12-28T05:22:23.533+0000) > > "[current season] is the worst and I'd prefer [previous season]" has been said every season since S2. > > * S7, so far, has more class diversity since forever. Even the outliers like Lee and Cait aren't nearly as polarizing as prior season's problem children. There's some good things about this season, such as plants, but it really feels like this is a step back into tank meta rather than advancing the game.
: Season 7 so far
Yeah, basically. The only thing I feel I can add is how useless it feels to play many champions since it just feels like you get shut down so hard by the fotm that you can't do anything.
Penns (EUW)
: Luckily {{item:3071}} {{item:3074}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3814}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3111}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3072}} .... all exist tho
> [{quoted}](name=Penns,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5nLxvET6,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-12-25T18:14:38.236+0000) > > Luckily {{item:3071}} {{item:3074}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3156}} {{item:3814}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3111}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3072}} .... all exist tho Yeah sure, let me go into lane against someone like darius, and I don't have Boxbox level Riven skill. It's fine though, I'll just buy one of these sustain items... Oh, you mean that he bullied me out of lane so much that I can't afford it before he's bought two completed items? Okay...
: > [{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cVBhQcpa,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-18T21:06:02.734+0000) > > I understand he is not OP and was trash before the buffs. But hear me out. I want to talk about WHY Garen being trash is healthy for the low Leagues and why he is a terrible design. > > There are 3 forms of countering a another player. counterpicking, counter building and counterplay. Before this buff you could counterpick or counterbuild Garen. Now you can only counterpick him(this is in the low Leagues, few sub plat Rivens or Shyvanas or other countered champions know how to play around him). So you are fine if you pick a good champion into him. But pick Riven or Shyvana or other melees who rely on being on top of him but aren't as good of stat sticks. And you lose. So like, against Darius even though he counters Riven and Shyvana, I can step inside his spin or outside, I can dodge his pull, counterbuild him with HP stacking and armor. Garen I cannot counterplay or counterbuild. I can only counterpick. Because he counters HP stacking and armor. > > Which is a terrible design. League should never be rock-paper-scissors. Even in the low Leagues. However the problem extends into higher Leagues. Where Garen is next to useless... still. Why? because in high Leagues he lacks OPTIONS. Shyvana for example has options, even if she is fairly linear and low mechanical skill cap, she has options for play, and counterplay. While Garen has few. This means while he may be a bully if picked against certain champions, he lacks the ability to be useful overall in a teamplay map-wide setting. > > What this means is that Garen is either OP or Trash in low tiers, as a linear champion who is counterpicked but has little to no counterplay or counterbuilding. While in high tiers of play he is always trash, as he lacks tools and options. > > What do I suggest? A rework. A re-rework. Like Mordekaiser and Skarner I do not feel that his Juggernaut update was successful. I feel it didn't go far ENOUGH on the rework. And therefore left him with the same problems as before, and even more to boot. > > Thank you for reading. Thoughts below. The irony of insulting a stat stick champion while playing a stat stick champion who is much stronger at the moment. Like... you play Shyvana. A champion whose design is based around whether or not she can kill her enemy before she is peeled off. And right now, the answer to that question is almost always "yes", and is why she is a problem champion. But you bash Garen, who actually has far more counterplay than Shyvana does (not that this is a good thing).
> [{quoted}](name=PermabannedGaren,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cVBhQcpa,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-12-18T21:11:49.861+0000) > > The irony of insulting a stat stick champion while playing a stat stick champion who is much stronger at the moment. > > Like... you play Shyvana. A champion whose design is based around whether or not she can kill her enemy before she is peeled off. And right now, the answer to that question is almost always "yes", and is why she is a problem champion. > > But you bash Garen, who actually has far more counterplay than Shyvana does (not that this is a good thing). The difference is, that Shyvana is a stat stick champion that wrecks havoc through the jungle, but can be avoided because of the size of the jungle. Garen is a stat stick champion that someone is forced to deal with and essentially lose a lane to the enemies for half the game. Like Mira was saying, it's not that Garen is 'OP', it's that he's incredibly frustrating to face, especially now that he's shredding half your armor while doing % max hp true damage.
: I just pretend all toxic Rivens...
Don't get it wrong! I-it's not like I wanted to help you guys win.
: The rework is not why Shyvana is strong...
Indeed, I've noticed a lot of focus on her strength w leven though I've seen other sources causing her power growth
: A passive that would be fun, based on dragons, but not detrimental
It's definitely cool, the first instinct is that the stacking is really strong, but then after a thought you realize that if you have 3+ dragons early you're probably destroying them anyway xD Adding some base armor and mr back into her kit makes it less detrimental to not have a dragon, which I feel is good since even with this version the existence of Shyvana forces careful dragon watching now.
: Anyone else think the kat rework is really good?
As a separate thought, the metrics for Kat are going to be all screwed up by the play rate increase. People that don't even play Kat are trying her out and getting a lot of losses racked up. Riot really needs to let time pass before deciding to make any changes. But, as a Kat player, I feel like her burst may be too high, and her survavibility a little too low.
: Anyone else think the kat rework is really good?
I think the new Kat is fun in a lot of ways, and does keep in line with her old kit. However, a big problem I have is the same problem that many of the assassin updated champions have, not Kat focused. Though a part of me still wishes that they gave me a reason to auto attack more on her.
: If we had to gut Kassadin's utility, identity and base damages to force him to be a pure assassin
Yeah, I would have played old Kassadin if they took ALL his scalings away so he only had base damages. xD It was so much more fun.
Elewd (NA)
: @Meddler, the new shyvanna passive worries me...
She is dovahkiin OwO In all seriousness If you take 500 true damage, I'd be more worried about the 5000 damage you took in the process.
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Keira Helsh

Level 31 (NA)
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