Rioter Comments
: Fair point. You make some of the same tired arguments about {{champion:157}} that we heard during the Assassin meta (Wind Wall too broken/doesn't support Yas's theme, crit chance, shield passive, etc.), but he seems to be in a good place now. He can be easily locked down thanks to the new tank meta, and also doesn't cut through people as quickly for the same reason. His entire kit, taken as a whole, seems to suggest more of a duelist to me than anything else. That movie poster, unkillable, final-slash type samurai guy. As far as his Wind Wall duration goes, think about a tub of water. If you send a vigorous, slashing wave forward, it takes quite a while for the water to settle. Granted, the animation doesn't do that phenomenon justice, but I think it holds up. The way it's used also suggests more "duelist" than "tank," since it cannot block bodies, Vi ultimate, or dark magic like Malzahar's visions. His passive gives me the same duelist vibe; one hit breaks it, and then you can beat up on him. Once his tools are expended, he becomes a sitting duck, especially if there are no minions around. I think Rito's done a good job of releasing champions with distinct themes and kits that support them, as well as updating champions who need love and whose themes will benefit from low-impact changes. {{champion:150}} is a perfectly adorable prehistoric monster, and each form feels like it should theme-wise. {{champion:268}} is the perfect Emperor of the Sands, with soldiers and turrets who do his bidding. {{champion:421}} is a visceral and terrifying burrower who is able to dominate entire territories of the map; her Void Rush makes it feel like the entire map is hers at any given moment. Even slightly older champs have excellently supported themes. {{champion:222}} is a rocket launching, building destroying maniac (who's AS is definitely a little overtuned atm). {{champion:120}} fulfills the spectral horseman fantasy perfectly when he flies across the map to drive-by assassinate someone who had zero idea he'd be coming. {{champion:238}} has always fulfilled the "shadow ninja" fantasy, and his upcoming nerf should bring him in line balance-wise. Even {{champion:106}} feels amazing when you're running down an enemy carry and flipping them into your team, or taking a bite out of an unsuspecting top laner.
> [{quoted}](name=IrishFingers,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JjEzLkGN,comment-id=001800000000,timestamp=2015-05-25T03:35:58.415+0000) > > Fair point. You make some of the same tired arguments about {{champion:157}} that we heard during the Assassin meta (Wind Wall too broken/doesn't support Yas's theme, crit chance, shield passive, etc.), but he seems to be in a good place now. He can be easily locked down thanks to the new tank meta, and also doesn't cut through people as quickly for the same reason. > > His entire kit, taken as a whole, seems to suggest more of a duelist to me than anything else. That movie poster, unkillable, final-slash type samurai guy. As far as his Wind Wall duration goes, think about a tub of water. If you send a vigorous, slashing wave forward, it takes quite a while for the water to settle. Granted, the animation doesn't do that phenomenon justice, but I think it holds up. The way it's used also suggests more "duelist" than "tank," since it cannot block bodies, Vi ultimate, or dark magic like Malzahar's visions. His passive gives me the same duelist vibe; one hit breaks it, and then you can beat up on him. Once his tools are expended, he becomes a sitting duck, especially if there are no minions around. > > I think Rito's done a good job of releasing champions with distinct themes and kits that support them, as well as updating champions who need love and whose themes will benefit from low-impact changes. > > {{champion:150}} is a perfectly adorable prehistoric monster, and each form feels like it should theme-wise. {{champion:268}} is the perfect Emperor of the Sands, with soldiers and turrets who do his bidding. {{champion:421}} is a visceral and terrifying burrower who is able to dominate entire territories of the map; her Void Rush makes it feel like the entire map is hers at any given moment. > > Even slightly older champs have excellently supported themes. {{champion:222}} is a rocket launching, building destroying maniac (who's AS is definitely a little overtuned atm). {{champion:120}} fulfills the spectral horseman fantasy perfectly when he flies across the map to drive-by assassinate someone who had zero idea he'd be coming. {{champion:238}} has always fulfilled the "shadow ninja" fantasy, and his upcoming nerf should bring him in line balance-wise. Even {{champion:106}} feels amazing when you're running down an enemy carry and flipping them into your team, or taking a bite out of an unsuspecting top laner. Alright, you bring up great points, and I wanted to take time to do them justice, because I think you really took time to give me a fair consideration as well. I'm impressed by your effort, and I love what you have to say, but I think you may be mistaken on some points. That they fit a central concept does not mean they depart from their thematic basis with peculiar regularity. Honestly, I don't think {{champion:222}} , {{champion:120}} , {{champion:106}} , or {{champion:268}} have problems (though Azir's ult is so damn buggy even after multiple fixes that I'm not sure he'll ever be truly right on as a champion), and the reason I mentioned {{champion:421}} in the opening is primarily that she has issues I think would just be difficult to really fix. Honestly, I don't have too many objections with her, she's just going to always be difficult to balance because of the excessive number of things she's built to do. However, while I don't think {{champion:150}} has thematic problems so much as it is that he's intentionally designed to be so unreliable as to never be a truly viable champion without him immediately being nerfed. I disagree with you on {{champion:238}}, and here's why; both of them are designed with too many bells and whistles to really ever come together as cohesive champions. {{champion:238}} first. While he's flashy, and sexy, and fun to watch, he becomes stale because it's exactly the same process you watch every single time. Ult, chase, spam, ult back, repeat as necessary. Why? His ult allows him to suddenly avoid unit collision, making him very difficult to peel properly without very hard cc, and his double shadows gives him a huge amount of opportunity to simply avoid any sort of reasonable counterplay with the increasing destruction of targeted cc in favor of skillshots. His ability to slow his opponents with his shadow doesn't match with his kit, since every other bit about it already allows him to chase down his opponents with great impunity, so removing the necessity to build an item that either slows or speeds him up makes it really difficult to justify. More importantly, as a ninja, the ability to teleport instantaneously into his shadows doesn't make any sense; he's not an inherently magical being. He's a ninja, and they have historically relied on trickery and stealth, on the ability to master shadows, but not to simply teleport between them. Illusion and misdirection make sense. Teleportation does not. I find him totally exciting and acceptable, were he not able to push himself between the shadows with greater efficiency than Kassadin without having to use an ability that is his ultimate, and is on a remarkably low cooldown. He brings a huge number of things to the table, and _that's the problem;_ his kit has everything pretty they could come up with just tossed in like peculiar stone soup, without consideration for the reality that while he's fun to play, he's incredibly aggravating to play _against._ I'm in no way saying he's overpowered; he's not. He just doesn't make a lot of sense, and he's a source of much of the "unfun" Riot claims to be concerned about.
SS Pappino (EUNE)
: You just don't want Yasuo to have windwall. Yasuo is an extremely awesome champion with all these new champs, as they have a nice and fitting kit. The windwall is what makes Yasuo himself, a lone samurai, wandering around, trying to defend himself while seeking the true killer of the elder, cutting down everyone who stand in his way. And the windwall is not meant to protect his whole team, its to protect HIMSELF, as you will not jump in front of the enemy team, cuz you will die instantly. Yasuo is an assassin/fighter, who excels in cleanups and followups.
> [{quoted}](name=SS Pappino,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JjEzLkGN,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2015-05-25T07:33:10.725+0000) > > You just don't want Yasuo to have windwall. Yasuo is an extremely awesome champion with all these new champs, as they have a nice and fitting kit. The windwall is what makes Yasuo himself, a lone samurai, wandering around, trying to defend himself while seeking the true killer of the elder, cutting down everyone who stand in his way. And the windwall is not meant to protect his whole team, its to protect HIMSELF, as you will not jump in front of the enemy team, cuz you will die instantly. Yasuo is an assassin/fighter, who excels in cleanups and followups. First and foremost, I could care less about his windwall. It just doesn't, thematically, make any goddamn sense. It's a fine ability, _just not for Yasuo._ If I was gonna pick out one problem I actually have with Yasuo _beyond_ his thematic lack of cohesion, it would definitely be the inexplicable 50% armor penetration to compensate for a poorly designed kit they couldn't naturally balance out. That's what I'm talking about; they throw all these things in that just don't make any sense because they make the NUMBERS work. The first objective should be a cohesive kit, a kit that feels like an identity, and then from THERE, they should make the numbers work. Will that require more effort? Yeah, absolutely, but it's got a HUGE payoff in the degree of immersion we'll feel in the game, moving back to a field of battle where two teams of powerful men, women, and creatures battle for dominance, rather than a random number generator surrounding points on a matrix. The problem with the insertion of random bonuses, what's occurring at the moment, is that it destroys the feeling of being part of the game and sterilizes it, makes it a series of flashing lights. Do you have control? Sure, absolutely. I'm not at all downplaying the level of skill required for different levels of play. However, what we are losing is a visceral connection to our champions, faster and faster in time with lazily designed kits that will always be extremely hard to balance.
Kouga (NA)
: Not *everything* can fit perfectly into the canon in-game world (*HOW DO THESE PEOPLE SURVIVE GETTING SHOT WITH BULLETS AND CANNONS AND GIANT ANCHORS*) but they do a pretty good job. As a mADC, Yasuo needs ways to 1. Get to, and stay in, melee range 2. Survive both harassment and large amounts of damage in a teamfight and 3. Generally have some kind of damage steroid to keep up with other carries, most of whom are much safer Master Yi has 1. His Ultimate for sticking power, 2. His Meditation to soak high amounts of damage and sustain, and 3. Has his two passives (his actual Passive and his AD scaling passive) for damage output Tryndamere has 1. His spin/slow for sticking power, 2. His heal for sustain and his Ultimate for, well, everything that makes him a nightmare, and 3. Crit scaling through his passive (which honestly is more powerful in the early game, since he gets up to 35% free crit chance, and doesn't have the damage reduction that Yas has) I could go on but point is, thematic or not, Yasuo needs similar design to function in this role. So just first off, accept that he'll need these elements. Now, let's look at theme. >That makes sense; it's using the wind to save people. That has never been in Yasuo's lore in any real way. He is motivated by revenge, the ability to cut his opponents to pieces, to wreak havoc in retribution for his being accused of murder. He killed his own damn brother, and the only time IN HIS LIFE he was tasked with defense, he dashed away to murder festival instead. That is a shallow look at Yasuo's lore. You make him out as a madman, a bloodthirsty homicidal killer on the hunt. Yasuo left his post because he was the best and brightest pupil in Ionia. He was the *only one* who had mastered the Wind Technique, so when Noxus invaded, he believed in his heart that he was *the only one* who could **save his country**. When he realized his mistake, he *turned himself in* willingly, to accept his failures. It was only when he was mistakenly accused of murder that he fled, fighting to survive but not wanting to kill his kinsmen. >All the while, he was relentlessly hunted by his former allies, continually forced to fight or die. He wants to bring the killer to justice, to regain some semblance of his honor - if he is going to be disgraced, its going to be for the right reasons, darn it. He is a talented swordsman but not a savage killer. He wants justice. So why not defend his allies along the way - something that he wishes he could have done on the fields against Noxus, or when fighting against former friends. His kit fits pretty well within this theme. He is a samurai that mastered the wind. His passive, both the crit and the shield, fit into his idea of being an expert, peerless swordsman. His strength is in his speed; his sword cuts down foes, quickly landing wounds far more devastating than you'd expect (crit), and he can defend himself against a strike in the blink of an eye (shield). His Q is a classic; based on the *"Iaido"*: smooth, controlled movements of drawing the sword from its scabbard or saya, striking or cutting an opponent, removing blood from the blade, and then replacing the sword in the scabbard. It fits to his samurai theme, and the tornado fits with his Wind Technique. His Wind Wall - aside from the obvious conditions of The Wind, I also see this as a way for him to cut down through an army. He's supposed to be this peerless swordsman, but how would a samurai survive against a wave of arrows by an enemy army? By scattering them, blocking them with a surge of wind. The very air around him moves to his call, shaping to his will. Its a very brief duration, but it allows him to engage a target while defending himself from ranged enemies. This even fits how he plays in game - he uses it more when he is engaging, where Braum might save it for when the *enemy* engages. Watch a game with a Yas main, they use it aggressively, not just defensively. His dash, again, he weaves through a battlefield, moving from one enemy to the next.. You see what I mean? His kit and theme are actually quite cohesive, IMO, and they do the best job they can of marrying theme and canon with gameplay and mechanics.
You're looking at him in a very simplistic light. The why of his actions matters very little. The how of them matters a great deal. Is he sad about it? Sure. Is he motivated by truth, honor, what have you? Sure. Does he spend half of his time killing folks to achieve these things? Absolutely. Is he ever helping someone else out other than himself? Big negatory. Ergo, a skill based around protecting his team makes absolutely zero sense. It would be 100% reasonable for him to protect himself with a neat little self-targeted deflection mechanic, but he doesn't, instead making a long duration line separation. It's flashy, but it makes no goddamn sense.
Gavran (NA)
: Really? It was only two sentences... let me try again: Make a new post about thematics on a champion you won't QQ about.
Sweetheart, I was talking about you, not me. It's a lot of effort to go through a little over 1000 words, I'm sure (that's like two whole Kotaku articles!), but you really need to try before you comment.
Eggbread (NA)
: I have a couple takes on some possible different abilities for Yasuo as well as splitting up his passive. **Ability 2 (W)- Typhoon Stance** Active: Yasuo gains a shield equal to 100/105/110/115/120% (+2% per 40 bonus AD) of his Flow for 2/2.75/3.5/4.25/5 seconds. Projectiles that hit Yasuo during this time will be destroyed with a quick slice of the blade, but will damage the shield if they deal damage. Cost: 100% Current Flow Cool Down: 10/8.5/7/5.5/4 sec. **NEW Passive- Way of the Wanderer** Innate: Yasuo's critical hit chance is increased by 1.2% for every 1% of his Flow filled. More power critical chance in his passive, but he will have to sacrafise it for the shield. The shield is more thematic in that he will most of the time be using it for himself. Still has the projectile destroying effect to keep some of what it used to be.
I'd be far more comfortable with Yasuo voiding ranged attacks against him for a period of time. W: Way of the Zephyr (cooldown 19/17/15/13/11) Passive: Ranged attacks against Yasuo deal 1/2/3/4/5% decreased damage. Active: For 1 second, Yasuo voids all ranged attacks against himself, and he gains 10/15/20/30/35% speed.
: Oh god, the Yasuo QQers are back.
The post isn't about Yasuo. He's an example. Do you even reading comprehension?
: All the 50% (Bonus, not total; makes a huge difference) armor pen does is make him actually able to kill tanks just like all the other M-adcs. And you still don't kill them that quickly, just quick enough that you can realistically kill them before they kill you. Master Yi still kills twice nearly twice as fast assuming equal gold.
Except there's no reason for it, and it destroys any semblance of a proper identity for him. There's really no reason for him to have armor penetration, lore-wise, move-wise, nothing, and certainly not for 15 seconds. As bothersome as 50% armor pen is (and as problematic in general as that is), it's not the point of this post. The point is that it, in no way, is cohesive with his identity or his theme. It's there "because that's the only way to make him actually able to kill tanks." It's a shitty, lazy out they threw in because they couldn't think of a way to make him a proper mADC. He's not a bruiser, he's not an mADC, and he's not an assassin, he's just a "I don't know, throw more bonuses at him and see if he works this time." You can say it's the only reason he works NOW, but that's no reason to assume it's the only way he works period, and it's a reason that makes absolutely zero sense at all, and destroys counterplay, making him a completely feast or famine bore.
Zedex (NA)
: Someone's upset they lose to Yasuo.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c71/DagdaIV/Didnt%20do_zpsvvlfwq6v.jpg
Gavran (NA)
: Or in other words, "I think Yasuo is OP and I don't like him, take him away." If you really believe your point about themes it's honestly lost in the QQ.
Uh... http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c71/DagdaIV/Didnt%20do_zpsvvlfwq6v.jpg
: I don't get people who say Yasuo's kit isn't cohesive. As someone who plays Yasuo alot, all of his skills make perfect sense to me. His Q is for either poking down fleeing enemies or kiting back enemies yourself. His E is so he can maneuver arond the battlefield for all his other skills. His wind wall is how you zone out ranged threats while you deal with the target you're currently attacking. (I use wind wall all the time to block the enemy adcs autos while I attack someone else in a teamfight, or I use it to block out possible assistance while I kill their adc.) His shield is there to help absorb the initial blow for entering a fight since he has to get so close. And his ult, whether its the CC and large chunk of damage, the shield refresh, or the 50% bonus armor pen, are all there for the hard commitment that Yasuo has made to being in the thick of a fight. And honestly, all the whining about the double crit passive is tiresome. Yes, it is indeed a very strong passive that makes him an enormous snowballer, but it also greatly limits his power as well. So much of Yasuo's power budget is tied into that passive that it forces him to build crit, and lots of it to do any decent damage past midgame. Imagine for a moment that Yasuo's double crit passive were removed. He would be the worst champion in the entire game by far and Riot would have to give him serious buffs to make him playable again. That would generally either be some other way to enhance his damage, or by giving him far, far more durability. The first option is problematic because it is likely to turn him into an unbearably oppressive laner, given that his current laning power is gated by the crit passive that he can't access early in laning. The other option gets you a Yasuo that builds Botrk and then full tank, and if you thought Irelia was stupid, wait until you see bruiser Yasuo.
Diiidn't even complain about the crit. 50% armor pen is way more problematic.
: Ok let me get this straight. Just because {{champion:157}} is out seeking revenge, and is supposed to "cut his opponents to pieces" he's not allowed to have a defensive ability? By this flawed logic, why should {{champion:92}} have a shield? Isn't she seeking revenge too? Why should {{champion:15}} have a shield, she's a bandit, she relies on stealing and killing.
Several reasons; Riven isn't seeking revenge, simply survival. She's not a peculiar vigilante, but a deserter, disillusioned with the monstrous tactics of her own nation that demean the principles they claim to stand by. She's also not defending her teammates; the shield for both of these champions is _self_ focused. Yasuo's windwall would make perfect sense... if it was a self-focused technique. It is not. It is a teamwide barrier, an instant middle finger to well over half the attacks and abilities in the game (hello Nami, hope you didn't like your ult). Windwall isn't about surviving, it's about defending, and _that_ is why it's thematically asinine.
Rioter Comments
: So about this Ashe rework.
A 35% passive on AA slow is straight stupid by itself.
: So about this Ashe rework.
Seriously though, who's the inbred designer who thought this made sense?
: Yeah, not to mention her mana efficiency went up by like, 150%, because she doesn't need to toggle for the kite or chasedown.
Free slow with her permacrit ftw.
Rioter Comments
Trídent (NA)
: {{champion:238}} approves
XD Not sure if that's a compliment or not.
: nice taking the idea of Nox from Smite are you trying to get league sued ?
Wut. One, I didn't know Nox was in Smite. It's a name I used as a reference to an old God, which is, as I now know, one used in Smite, which is a game where you play old gods. Not one part of their kid resembles each other, as I found out upon investigation. Their appearance is in no way similar. Their stories are in no way similar. Their playstyles are in no way similar. You saw a shared name and shit yourself. Calm down.
: I mean... vlad is the closest thing to a vampire and he is noxian so it makes sense for him to replace talon in her back story. Well I've thought about her name though... it feels like it is kinda... no offense, but manly. It is only my opinion however I can live with her name being nox. I feel like she should be a champ who has high ratio with either ap or ad. It makes her stronger because she not only doesn't have a super nuke at lv 6 which can 100-0 someone. A funny thing is, she doesn't have enough ap, ad or base damage to be an assasin, think about it, a full level 6 combo will do roughly 500 damage. 50 from ult+ 20, 65 from q+20, 35 from e and +20, 3AA from w 210+60 dmg. That isn't even enough to burst some lv 2 or 3 champs. Ok, I'm not counting agony stack but they need at least 300 more damage at lv 6 to be a effective assasin and can do it all in 2 seconds max. Plus mobility is slightly lacking due to almost no escape only engage after the stealth was removed. An assasin who wants to be a rengar who goes In but doesn't get even a 70% of his damage will not do anyone playing this champ any good.
> [{quoted}](name=SolarPWNage,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=RJJK42an,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-06T00:39:47.933+0000) > > I mean... vlad is the closest thing to a vampire and he is noxian so it makes sense for him to replace talon in her back story. Well I've thought about her name though... it feels like it is kinda... no offense, but manly. It is only my opinion however I can live with her name being nox. I feel like she should be a champ who has high ratio with either ap or ad. It makes her stronger because she not only doesn't have a super nuke at lv 6 which can 100-0 someone. A funny thing is, she doesn't have enough ap, ad or base damage to be an assasin, think about it, a full level 6 combo will do roughly 500 damage. 50 from ult+ 20, 65 from q+20, 35 from e and +20, 3AA from w 210+60 dmg. That isn't even enough to burst some lv 2 or 3 champs. Ok, I'm not counting agony stack but they need at least 300 more damage at lv 6 to be a effective assasin and can do it all in 2 seconds max. Plus mobility is slightly lacking due to almost no escape only engage after the stealth was removed. An assasin who wants to be a rengar who goes In but doesn't get even a 70% of his damage will not do anyone playing this champ any good. One, there's nothing wrong with a lady assassin. Your objection that she's manly is something I'm just going to shrug at and respond, "Whatever you say, Activision." On your objections, I think you're absolutely right about her damage. The problem is that we're balancing CC with damage, and I'm trying to figure out where, exactly, to strike that balance. I think I'll be going higher on the damage, as I'm trying for that to be her identity. Thank you very much for your input, sah.
: So... instead of vladimere... who is a vampire, you chose talon? I get how talon and nox have stealth but man some of these abilities gotta get nerf asap. Her w needs to be nerfed to 30/35/40/45/50% movement speed over 4 seconds, because you will have a OP ghost spell every 15 seconds. Her ult plz... plz reduce her stealth to 3.5/4.25/5 seconds because that's all you need to gank, out play, juke and wreck people. I like the agony idea but I feel she should get stacks by kills. One cs gives one stack and at 12/10/8 (every 6 lv reduce the stacks needed) buffs her next spell. Well, looks good, can't wait for your art of nox!
> [{quoted}](name=SolarPWNage,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=RJJK42an,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-04-05T19:52:05.517+0000) > > So... instead of vladimere... who is a vampire, you chose talon? I get how talon and nox have stealth but man some of these abilities gotta get nerf asap. Her w needs to be nerfed to 30/35/40/45/50% movement speed over 4 seconds, because you will have a OP ghost spell every 15 seconds. Her ult plz... plz reduce her stealth to 3.5/4.25/5 seconds because that's all you need to gank, out play, juke and wreck people. I like the agony idea but I feel she should get stacks by kills. One cs gives one stack and at 12/10/8 (every 6 lv reduce the stacks needed) buffs her next spell. Well, looks good, can't wait for your art of nox! Vladimir isn't a vampire, he's a hemomancer. Nox, while a magical being, is an assassin, not a mage. Ergo, Talon has more to do with her than Vlad. Keep in mind, it builds, rather than being an instant effect, which is why it's so strong. However, I think you're right in that it needs values dropped a little. I didn't realize I'd left the stealth in her ult, and I'll take that out. It was balanced for that. Stacks only for kills/assists would be unreasonably difficult to get, and to balance that I'd have to make the buffs from them much stronger, which I'm loathe to do. We'll see, though.
Rioter Comments
: And what's this thread about?
> [{quoted}](name=Devi Freak Mint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kaXkuvbU,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-03-30T02:10:35.051+0000) > > And what's this thread about? Mobility (on some level)=power, mobility creep is demonstrable.
: What are you trying to say? Is there any specific reason why the X Axis is blank? If you can't make clear walls of text, I'd suggest sticking to one sentence statements and a bullet list to back it up.
> [{quoted}](name=Devi Freak Mint,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kaXkuvbU,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-03-30T01:54:46.583+0000) > > What are you trying to say? > Is there any specific reason why the X Axis is blank? > > If you can't make clear walls of text, I'd suggest sticking to one sentence statements and a bullet list to back it up. ... The x axis is essentially champion release date. I don't understand why that's difficult.
: Riot, you have to be honest with us about your power creep.
Rioter Comments
: No guys, Zed is balance
It would be funny if QSS did anything, since he can use the ult to simply outright kill you, since he's untargetable while he dashes to you during his ult. You can void it, but all you've bought there is some MR, which he couldn't give less than a shit about. You have to buy QSS or Zhonya's AND significant armor. He just rips through health.
: Evylnn
I know the feeling. Seriously, Riot's mobility creep is such shit. CertainlyT designs kits like Grandmothers pack for vacations.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Let's buff Zilean, they said. It'll be fun, they said.
lol. By no means am I claiming he's OP. I'm claiming he's playable, and I fucking hate his ult. This annoys the shit out of me.
: Let's buff Zilean, they said. It'll be fun, they said.
His ult is a ga + shitloads of health/mana. None of those ults do even remotely the same thing, and trox is a joke anyway.
Rioter Comments
: Reviving Our Favorite Sadist
A'ight, so... that's not terribly helpful. I'm not gonna say you're wrong, but you're definitely not right.
Rioter Comments
: Let's Talk Succubus
Alright! Gave her conditional movespeed bonus on the passive for her w, and increased the bonus to up to 75%, since it is conditional. She now has a short duration CC immunity after her ult, and the damage dealt by it also gives her a significant health bonus. All things considered, I would recommend using Rylai's on her, given the new attributes.
: So the kit is geared more toward slow DPS than a quick burst? This is dangerous in modern League, with all kinds of mobility and peel to make sure you can't get to and stick to your target. Slows are not going to be enough, and the 1 second stun can only do so much. Without outright giving her a gapcloser, she's going to get kited and killed often. Then again, you really can't load her down with a lot of stuns or snares either. Imagine how frustrating it would be to have her appear from stealth and chain CC you in place for three seconds. She'd gank better than a {{champion:111}} at that point. A possible solution could be to give her some kind of MS boost to chase down a target that Eve has marked in some way. Similar to {{champion:77}} in that once she picks a target she can just run them down. Possibly even gaining some tenacity if within some distance. However, unlike Udyr, she can't use that mobility to escape, only chase after. Another solution could be a silence. Silence prevents a lot of enemy mobility, but Riot doesn't like silences on assassins. However, since this kit isn't a burst assassin, they might be alright with it. Sticking to a silenced opponent is much more realistic and reliable. Finally, you could give her some delayed damage or DoT. Think poison or bleed damage, or something similar to a {{champion:238}} ult or {{champion:26}} {{champion:18}} bomb. This means that Eve won't have to stick to her target to deal her damage, but that damage can also be counterplayed with shields or heals.
> [{quoted}](name=BastionKross,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ky5QBwru,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2015-03-10T14:45:38.303+0000) > > So the kit is geared more toward slow DPS than a quick burst? This is dangerous in modern League, with all kinds of mobility and peel to make sure you can't get to and stick to your target. Slows are not going to be enough, and the 1 second stun can only do so much. Without outright giving her a gapcloser, she's going to get kited and killed often. > Then again, you really can't load her down with a lot of stuns or snares either. Imagine how frustrating it would be to have her appear from stealth and chain CC you in place for three seconds. She'd gank better than a {{champion:111}} at that point. > > A possible solution could be to give her some kind of MS boost to chase down a target that Eve has marked in some way. Similar to {{champion:77}} in that once she picks a target she can just run them down. Possibly even gaining some tenacity if within some distance. However, unlike Udyr, she can't use that mobility to escape, only chase after. > > Another solution could be a silence. Silence prevents a lot of enemy mobility, but Riot doesn't like silences on assassins. However, since this kit isn't a burst assassin, they might be alright with it. Sticking to a silenced opponent is much more realistic and reliable. > > Finally, you could give her some delayed damage or DoT. Think poison or bleed damage, or something similar to a {{champion:238}} ult or {{champion:26}} {{champion:18}} bomb. This means that Eve won't have to stick to her target to deal her damage, but that damage can also be counterplayed with shields or heals. Those are not bad ideas at all. Let's see what I can do. I'm also thinking that, perhaps, some survivability on her ult might be a fantastic idea. What do you guys think about an armor/mr/cc immunity bonus for the 2 sections after the activation of her ult? I would like to leave her capable of getting out or to the next target with the bonus she achieves, rather than simply going in, halfass Warwicking, then dying, which is my main concern with this ultimate. I am going to remind you that she has dramatic movement speed boosts tied to her w, so that's something I'm not sure needs additional consideration, particularly since it also acts as a slow purge. I love your idea of speed working only when approaching the target she last hit, though, so I very well may integrate that. I don't think I'm going to add any *additional* cc of any kind. I really want opponents to have the opportunity to escape her, and that's going to be very, very difficult if I add that.
: Let's Talk Succubus
I really wish I'd been able to get a red's attention. I guess I'll refine it, wait a week or so, and try, try again. Thank you all for being here. I hope to see you again!
: Obvious sarcasm was not obvious enough, lol. Sorry.
> [{quoted}](name=Roronoa Zor0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ky5QBwru,comment-id=000d00000000,timestamp=2015-03-09T18:39:27.895+0000) > > Obvious sarcasm was not obvious enough, lol. Sorry. :P I still like Eve better than Ahri.
Saianna (EUNE)
: Problem with your idea of Evelynn rework is that you want to create her into pretty much rengar, talon, kha'zix 2.0 I very dislike idea of giving chmpion short stealth on his ultimate. If you made it into basic ability with minium 15+ seconds of stealth then i'd most likely love it. Now about rest.. Her passive isn't really conditional. It's similar to what Volibear has with his W (i think). With additional boost to her damage like most of assassins have (talon slow, Zed + % AD on W, Akali in her passive, Kat in her super high AD/AP ratios) Her speed boost would be perfect too. Either you wanna stealthy close the gap to your target (10%), or you want to gtfo asap with 20% and short stealth Her ultimate is: 1.) either use the old pre-reworked one passively gives her HP and resets whenever someone dies on map 2.) remove heal on kill to clones/shadows (they'd work like Zyras plants without damage). Their job is to fool enemy so he'd waste his AA/skill/spell on clone instead of her. Programming wouldn't be hard. Create 4 copies of Evelynn on Map for x seconds. They cannot retaliate. Have 1 hp. Immune to aoe dot from items. About screaming OP QQ part. If you check in old LoL forum gutting Evelynn had about 2k upvotes. All of these guys were crying before on how unhealthy Evelynn is just cause they were too greedy to buy pink wards. Instead of balanced rework we recieved what Riot is best at, gutting rework that totally destroys champion. Tbh about my rework. I wrote it in a hurry. If i were to seriously think of her kit, then it'd most likely change abit. But what i want is: Evelynn as stealth-master. Stealth as her way to kill. Stealth as a weapon against mobility (you can run, but you cannot kite nor kill something you cannot see). In other words i want old Evelynn prerework. Your W also has stealth? lemme check again. I must have skipped it.. Or i'm blind.. Ok it does have stealth.. But it's yet another short stealth which is... meh.. Also you play with stacks.. I kinda hate it. Personally in all games i prefer perm low bonuses over higher bonuses with short time stacks. I enjoy playing slowly. This current mobility meta hurts me alot. And your Eve is combination of stacking & mobility.. So eh... Sorry mate i really cannot agree on your rework TL;DR I want old Evelynn with: long stealth in her basic ability nuke passive that synergies with her stealth So she can be played as strategic assassin killing lone targets. Not what we have now, a freaking "tank assassin" sorry excuse of a terrible rework.
> [{quoted}](name=Saianna,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ky5QBwru,comment-id=001100000000,timestamp=2015-03-09T18:51:01.649+0000) > > Problem with your idea of Evelynn rework is that you want to create her into pretty much rengar, talon, kha'zix 2.0 > > I very dislike idea of giving chmpion short stealth on his ultimate. If you made it into basic ability with minium 15+ seconds of stealth then i'd most likely love it. > > > Now about rest.. > Her passive isn't really conditional. It's similar to what Volibear has with his W (i think). With additional boost to her damage like most of assassins have (talon slow, Zed + % AD on W, Akali in her passive, Kat in her super high AD/AP ratios) > > Her speed boost would be perfect too. Either you wanna stealthy close the gap to your target (10%), or you want to gtfo asap with 20% and short stealth > > Her ultimate is: > 1.) either use the old pre-reworked one passively gives her HP and resets whenever someone dies on map > 2.) remove heal on kill to clones/shadows (they'd work like Zyras plants without damage). Their job is to fool enemy so he'd waste his AA/skill/spell on clone instead of her. > Programming wouldn't be hard. Create 4 copies of Evelynn on Map for x seconds. They cannot retaliate. Have 1 hp. Immune to aoe dot from items. > > About screaming OP QQ part. If you check in old LoL forum gutting Evelynn had about 2k upvotes. All of these guys were crying before on how unhealthy Evelynn is just cause they were too greedy to buy pink wards. > Instead of balanced rework we recieved what Riot is best at, gutting rework that totally destroys champion. > > > Tbh about my rework. I wrote it in a hurry. If i were to seriously think of her kit, then it'd most likely change abit. > But what i want is: Evelynn as stealth-master. Stealth as her way to kill. Stealth as a weapon against mobility (you can run, but you cannot kite nor kill something you cannot see). In other words i want old Evelynn prerework. > > Your W also has stealth? lemme check again. I must have skipped it.. Or i'm blind.. > Ok it does have stealth.. But it's yet another short stealth which is... meh.. > > Also you play with stacks.. I kinda hate it. Personally in all games i prefer perm low bonuses over higher bonuses with short time stacks. I enjoy playing slowly. This current mobility meta hurts me alot. And your Eve is combination of stacking & mobility.. So eh... Sorry mate i really cannot agree on your rework > > TL;DR > I want old Evelynn with: > long stealth in her basic ability > nuke > passive that synergies with her stealth > > So she can be played as strategic assassin killing lone targets. Not what we have now, a freaking "tank assassin" sorry excuse of a terrible rework. The problem is that they have to target the clones for them to be effective at all. The proposed ult is less ult and more... *shrug?* Particularly since the clones can't be controlled, the best they do is deflect four hits. Short stealth *with* a speed boost, which means we're seeing her gain the ability to move in very unpredictable ways, capitalizing on an enemy who hasn't prepared for her to be there. There's nothing wrong with the stacks, as well. They create interesting sub-effects to each of her moves, and allow you to decide which form of cc to prioritize, and force you to make strategic decisions upon entering a fight. Further, it gives you the ability to decide to stun one, pick them off, grab the renew, chain that with an invisible dash, stun a second, drop ult on a third, go nuts. Spell Vamp would undoubtedly be a must on her, but I really think this has potential to be one of the most interesting iterations of Evelynn so far. You want her to go back to how she was, and I would love that too. That's not going to happen, and certainly won't happen for long even if it kinda does. This will break the abusive viability nerf-whomp cycle she's always suffered from.
: Let's Talk Succubus
So guys, I'm sorry I titled it succubus, but people really need to focus on the redesign, not disagreeing whether or not she's actually a succubus. I've explained why I think she can be defined as such, but it's REALLY not important here. SO LET'S MOVE PAST IT. XD
Saianna (EUNE)
: Sorry mate, but i can't agree with Evelynn rework without her stealth as "basic ability" or "passive". I hate idea of stealth in champions ultimate. That's how i want to see Evelynn: Passive: * gains 1/3/5 flat mana regen/5s * After hitting enemy champion from stealth she slows them for 1,5s by 20% and increases damage taken by 10% for 3s (if she hit neutral mobs they'd fear'ed instead. Also take 10% additional dmg) Ability Q: * no change to what we have now Ability W: * Evelynn goes into stealth mode for 10/12/14/16/18s and gains mov speed boost 10%. Her stealth is removed if Evelynn is hit by 10% of her current health (if she's hit by more than 20% of her max health while going into stealth she gains double movement speed, while stealth is reduced to 3s) Ability E: * It's her nuke. Similar to what she had before her rework. High damage to single target. -mres/armor can be removed. She already has small dmg boost on her passive. Also current ravage is silly. 2 basic hits. Wow. What a great assasin tool [sarcasm] Ultimate R: * What she had before rework could be OK. She doesn't need some additional damage source. Instead of global heal on enemy kill she could have something like: enemy champion hit by Evelynn sees clones/shadows of her for 5 seconds, max 4 they appear randomly. Cannot be controlled by Eve. Also only champion affected by Evelynn hit can see them and attack them. clones have 1 hp and are immune to things like sunfirecap. Now, because you guys will scream OP QQ. Remember she was nerfed to the ground (aka reworked) just cause QQing in forum was cheaper than pink ward/oracle.
> [{quoted}](name=Saianna,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ky5QBwru,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2015-03-09T17:43:04.125+0000) > > Sorry mate, but i can't agree with Evelynn rework without her stealth as "basic ability" or "passive". > > > I hate idea of stealth in champions ultimate. > > That's how i want to see Evelynn: > Passive: > * gains 1/3/5 flat mana regen/5s > * After hitting enemy champion from stealth she slows them for 1,5s by 20% and increases damage taken by 10% for 3s > (if she hit neutral mobs they'd fear'ed instead. Also take 10% additional dmg) > > Ability Q: > * no change to what we have now > > Ability W: > * Evelynn goes into stealth mode for 10/12/14/16/18s and gains mov speed boost 10%. > Her stealth is removed if Evelynn is hit by 10% of her current health > (if she's hit by more than 20% of her max health while going into stealth she gains double movement speed, while stealth is reduced to 3s) > > Ability E: > * It's her nuke. Similar to what she had before her rework. High damage to single target. -mres/armor can be removed. She already has small dmg boost on her passive. Also current ravage is silly. 2 basic hits. Wow. What a great assasin tool [sarcasm] > > Ultimate R: > * What she had before rework could be OK. She doesn't need some additional damage source. > Instead of global heal on enemy kill she could have something like: enemy champion hit by Evelynn sees clones/shadows of her for 5 seconds, max 4 they appear randomly. Cannot be controlled by Eve. Also only champion affected by Evelynn hit can see them and attack them. clones have 1 hp and are immune to things like sunfirecap. > > > Now, because you guys will scream OP QQ. Remember she was nerfed to the ground (aka reworked) just cause QQing in forum was cheaper than pink ward/oracle. Sorry, but I'm not a big fan of such a conditional passive. Also, you absolutely eviscerated her speed boost, which is intrinsic to her kit being effective at all. I changed ravage back to magic damage in my iteration, which restores it to nuke status, so I think you're overreacting on that one. The ultimate you gave her is... very odd, and nearly impossible to program, as well the lack of control making it absurdly unreliable without hardcore programming Riot just doesn't have the manpower or the willingness to do for a single champion. I'm not screaming OP, I'm just saying your work is... unrealistic. Of course, I'm always going to like mine better, but I feel that I'm not the only one who would feel this way. Keep in mind my w also does stealth. I'm considering removing stealth from her ultimate, considering people's objections to it, and adding an alternative effect.
: I personally never thought that stealth is what made Evelyn, Evelyn. the things that Immediately stood out to me was that after she appeared, instead of being a standard burst you down assassin, she would instead chase you relentlessly, like a monster from one of those nightmares that you can't seem to move during. As for personal identity, that is a little bit fuzzy right now. I'd say she isn't so much a seductress/succubus as much as a vampiric assassin (and the idea of her being at least somewhat vampiric is supported in her lore, more so than the seductress aspect). She is supposedly from the shadow isles, but that is very loose just because that is where they dump the creepy crawlies and the scary champions, so she could just be something from elsewhere, like a magical experiment gone wrong, or a rogue assassin that was cursed by one of her targets, or anything really. I think the most important thing that needs to happen in her rework (aside from updating her model and losing the troll-doll hair) is that they make her an actual assassin, but focused around surprising an enemy and then chasing them down until either they are dead or they escape to safety, rather than bursting them in a heartbeat or CC locking them while she bursts them. Stealth is an important part of her kit, but it should not be her defining aspect (it can't really be, for the balance reasons mentioned). Instead, I would say put it back on an active ability and have it give bonuses for ambushing a target, such as % enhanced damage for a few seconds on breaking stealth or maybe gaining slow immunity (to reinforce the whole inescapable chaser idea) for a few seconds. Anyway, things I like/dislike about your kit suggestions: Passive: It is *ok*, but it doesn't seem like it is very special or reinforces a specific identity outside of the name you gave it. Gaining bonuses out of combat seems a little bit boring, but could be very effective (and to be honest, at least SOME part of a champion's kit has to be at least a little boring or else you can't ever have really cool stuff without being OP). The stacks seem to accumulate very slowly, and I think it would be much better to have the stack limit be a flat amount (say 5) since the bonus effects scale with her ability levels anyway. Q: I like that this stayed largely unchanged, because this in conjunction with her W is what makes her such a good chaser, and is in my opinion the most iconic of her abilities. Withering Kiss bonus is ok, giving her some extra burst W: NO. PLEASE NO. That completely ruins everything about her chasing potential. Currently, the passive that gives MS on dealing damage is the reason she is so sticky, not the active, and this change would lose that aspect. I think instead of changing it to be an out of combat buff, she should gain bonuses in combat for the more dark frenzy stacks she gains. Maybe something like after reaching X stacks her attacks deal bonus magic damage or something like that, to better support the idea of going into a "frenzy" (which implies losing personal control and lashing out in an almost animalistic manner, not gaining MS out of combat). Giving her a bonus on hit damage effect would also synergize with the AS from E. The Withering kiss effect is ok, but it gives her access to possibly two stealths at once, and that just seems a little redundant/unnecessary (unless of course she is able to chain this with her R which could be very cool). E: I like that this now heals her for a small amount, that is good. The withering kiss bonus giving a stun is good, and combined with a true stealth could make her a very good ganker, but I think that the stun should remain relatively short if she is to have one at all, just because if she actually gets to have real assassin damage like she ought to, it would become about as low counterplay as Leblanc's silence used to be. R: I kind of like this, but the global laugh seems unnecessary. It doesn't deal any sort of major burst, and it has a short enough duration that having a global sound seems uncalled for. I don't like that it has a dash attached to it, because it makes it feel like Rengar's Ult. I think instead allowing her to chain this with her W active's stealth and possibly making this active give true stealth (as in, completely invisible to **everything** except to the fountain laser) would be much cooler (instead, for the counterplay aspect, they should give a little exclamation mark for enemies when she is within say 400 range a la Rengar ult, but shorter ranged because she wouldn't have a dash). She could then apply the bonus damage on her first attack that breaks stealth. As for the bonus from withering kiss, I'd say reduce the initial stat drain she gets down to something like 15/20/25% and then have the passive's bonus increase it to 25/30/35%, so that you could have more decisions like "do I spend my last stack on a Q, or do I want the extra stats this gives instead" because currently, 5% extra for each stat is kind of weak. Overall, your idea has some really good stuff, some ok stuff, and some really not good stuff, but at least it seems to largely fit her theme (or at least what *I* consider her theme).
> [{quoted}](name=junglerboy16,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ky5QBwru,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2015-03-09T15:34:07.959+0000) > > I personally never thought that stealth is what made Evelyn, Evelyn. the things that Immediately stood out to me was that after she appeared, instead of being a standard burst you down assassin, she would instead chase you relentlessly, like a monster from one of those nightmares that you can't seem to move during. > > As for personal identity, that is a little bit fuzzy right now. I'd say she isn't so much a seductress/succubus as much as a vampiric assassin (and the idea of her being at least somewhat vampiric is supported in her lore, more so than the seductress aspect). She is supposedly from the shadow isles, but that is very loose just because that is where they dump the creepy crawlies and the scary champions, so she could just be something from elsewhere, like a magical experiment gone wrong, or a rogue assassin that was cursed by one of her targets, or anything really. > > I think the most important thing that needs to happen in her rework (aside from updating her model and losing the troll-doll hair) is that they make her an actual assassin, but focused around surprising an enemy and then chasing them down until either they are dead or they escape to safety, rather than bursting them in a heartbeat or CC locking them while she bursts them. Stealth is an important part of her kit, but it should not be her defining aspect (it can't really be, for the balance reasons mentioned). Instead, I would say put it back on an active ability and have it give bonuses for ambushing a target, such as % enhanced damage for a few seconds on breaking stealth or maybe gaining slow immunity (to reinforce the whole inescapable chaser idea) for a few seconds. > > Anyway, things I like/dislike about your kit suggestions: > > Passive: It is *ok*, but it doesn't seem like it is very special or reinforces a specific identity outside of the name you gave it. Gaining bonuses out of combat seems a little bit boring, but could be very effective (and to be honest, at least SOME part of a champion's kit has to be at least a little boring or else you can't ever have really cool stuff without being OP). The stacks seem to accumulate very slowly, and I think it would be much better to have the stack limit be a flat amount (say 5) since the bonus effects scale with her ability levels anyway. > > Q: I like that this stayed largely unchanged, because this in conjunction with her W is what makes her such a good chaser, and is in my opinion the most iconic of her abilities. Withering Kiss bonus is ok, giving her some extra burst > > W: NO. PLEASE NO. That completely ruins everything about her chasing potential. Currently, the passive that gives MS on dealing damage is the reason she is so sticky, not the active, and this change would lose that aspect. I think instead of changing it to be an out of combat buff, she should gain bonuses in combat for the more dark frenzy stacks she gains. Maybe something like after reaching X stacks her attacks deal bonus magic damage or something like that, to better support the idea of going into a "frenzy" (which implies losing personal control and lashing out in an almost animalistic manner, not gaining MS out of combat). Giving her a bonus on hit damage effect would also synergize with the AS from E. The Withering kiss effect is ok, but it gives her access to possibly two stealths at once, and that just seems a little redundant/unnecessary (unless of course she is able to chain this with her R which could be very cool). > > E: I like that this now heals her for a small amount, that is good. The withering kiss bonus giving a stun is good, and combined with a true stealth could make her a very good ganker, but I think that the stun should remain relatively short if she is to have one at all, just because if she actually gets to have real assassin damage like she ought to, it would become about as low counterplay as Leblanc's silence used to be. > > R: I kind of like this, but the global laugh seems unnecessary. It doesn't deal any sort of major burst, and it has a short enough duration that having a global sound seems uncalled for. I don't like that it has a dash attached to it, because it makes it feel like Rengar's Ult. I think instead allowing her to chain this with her W active's stealth and possibly making this active give true stealth (as in, completely invisible to **everything** except to the fountain laser) would be much cooler (instead, for the counterplay aspect, they should give a little exclamation mark for enemies when she is within say 400 range a la Rengar ult, but shorter ranged because she wouldn't have a dash). She could then apply the bonus damage on her first attack that breaks stealth. As for the bonus from withering kiss, I'd say reduce the initial stat drain she gets down to something like 15/20/25% and then have the passive's bonus increase it to 25/30/35%, so that you could have more decisions like "do I spend my last stack on a Q, or do I want the extra stats this gives instead" because currently, 5% extra for each stat is kind of weak. > > Overall, your idea has some really good stuff, some ok stuff, and some really not good stuff, but at least it seems to largely fit her theme (or at least what *I* consider her theme). Thank you so much! On consideration, you're absolutely right on a number of your points. I wasn't initially sure why the w change would destroy her chase, to be honest, but I honestly think you have a point. Keeping the aspect of a bonus that decays through combat, rather than simply disappearing, I think it would be acceptable to change it to work in conjunction with the other abilities. I do think you have a very good point, so I'm going to revise it to be a slightly lower cap on her stacks, but allow her to recharge those stacks. However, given the initial boost it provides, I don't want to allow her to simply keep the stacks maxed with Hate Spike, though. I'm thinking what I want to do is give it a cooldown and attach it to autoattacks. I'm adding that to the description now. Tell me what you think. I'm going to keep the global laugh on her ultimate, because without an indication, she becomes far too powerful. Additionally, keep in mind that her dash has a tremendously smaller range than Rengar's. I do agree with your assessment on her ultimate's association with Withering Kiss. Given people's objection to the term, I will also be changing that to "Torment"
: THought this was gonna be an Ahri thread. Much disappoint.
> [{quoted}](name=Roronoa Zor0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ky5QBwru,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2015-03-09T15:01:39.573+0000) > > THought this was gonna be an Ahri thread. Much disappoint. I'm sorry? I guess? I find Ahri incredibly boring, so I'm sorry for being as interested in her as you are in Evelynn, evidently. XD
Awoof (EUW)
: I'm not saying sexuality and sadism are mutually exclusive, but involving sexuality and seducing are not one and the same, either. Like, wether how I see the current Eve or your description, she is not seducing anybody, she lunges at you and tears you apart, regardless in what way she gets aroused by it now.
> [{quoted}](name=Kurappa,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ky5QBwru,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-09T15:13:49.381+0000) > > I'm not saying sexuality and sadism are mutually exclusive, but involving sexuality and seducing are not one and the same, either. > Like, wether how I see the current Eve or your description, she is not seducing anybody, she lunges at you and tears you apart, regardless in what way she gets aroused by it now. Why is her arousal something we can't use? That's what I'm not understanding about your objections. The actual aspect of forcible non-consent, the way in which she is prioritizing her pleasure at your expense, is fascinating and terrifying in the most powerful ways. She robs her victims of their autonomy, their will to live, and that, my friend, is the most powerful agony of all.
: So you'd make my oldest main a slut? Great storyline. keep your fan-fic to yourself. She's a predator. GO read her lore. Go read jax's lore. And no i don't mean the retconned lore. I mean the real lore. The only thing people like you seem to get out of her is "your pain is my pleasure" That had to do with her old release ult that healed on kill. Also had to do with her enjoying the job of killing people. It has nothing to do with her new ult thats just a wimpy shield that had to get buffed like 2/3 times to even be useful because of the amount of time it took to even give you the shield after landing R was insane and you died half the time before you got the shield. I'd gladly go back to release ult evelynn if they also returned her E/Q damage to "not shit" status.
> [{quoted}](name=ImHerVoice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ky5QBwru,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2015-03-09T14:54:10.363+0000) > > So you'd make my oldest main a slut? > Great storyline. > > keep your fan-fic to yourself. > She's a predator. > GO read her lore. > Go read jax's lore. > And no i don't mean the retconned lore. > I mean the real lore. > > The only thing people like you seem to get out of her is "your pain is my pleasure" > That had to do with her old release ult that healed on kill. > Also had to do with her enjoying the job of killing people. > > It has nothing to do with her new ult thats just a wimpy shield that had to get buffed like 2/3 times to even be useful because of the amount of time it took to even give you the shield after landing R was insane and you died half the time before you got the shield. > > I'd gladly go back to release ult evelynn if they also returned her E/Q damage to "not shit" status. I in no way would consider my interpretation of her as a "slut." Not in the slightest. Sensuality does not make one desperate, does not make one worthy of disrespect, particularly when that sensuality finds its source in causing agony. I don't see why you feel the need to insult me, particularly considering that I'm attempting to actually move her back to viability, rather than continue to try to make her permanent stealth "work," something that has never ever been effective, and results in her being continually rendered "Evelynn status," something so much a tradition that it's become a term in its own right. Please pay attention to the modifications I've made to her ult, which gives her an identity beyond simply "AOE kindaslow with a crappy shield." She's not viable as she is, and she never will be, even if Riot makes some kind of odd ward specifically to address her. I really don't see why you feel the need to be so hostile about this. I've mained Eve since the beginning, and I really want to see her realize her potential, move back to an assassin, a force to be reckoned with, rather than the joke she constantly becomes because it's so difficult to balance the permanent stealth. She needs to be changed, and I'm proposing a way to do it. She's never ever going back to release Evelynn because release Evelynn is not viable by Riot's own admission. She'll always be what she is now, with brief periods of her returning to effectiveness before being inevitably nerfed again unless we *do something*, so I'm trying to, because I love her and I miss her being effective. You may be satisfied with a 41% winrate that can be increased to slightly over 50% with exceptional skill and low elo, but I'm not.
: go back to reddit where you belong lol. Don't let the low elo run you over on the way down to d5 or lower lol I understand everything I said just fine cutie. You should pay attention to patch notes within the last 3 years and/or champion designs. You'd notice how one sided it is for ADC's/Assassins right now percentage damage champions. =]
> [{quoted}](name=ImHerVoice,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ky5QBwru,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-09T14:51:37.755+0000) > > go back to reddit where you belong lol. > > Don't let the low elo run you over on the way down to d5 or lower lol > > I understand everything I said just fine cutie. > You should pay attention to patch notes within the last 3 years and/or champion designs. > You'd notice how one sided it is for ADC's/Assassins right now percentage damage champions. > > > =] You're not explaining yourself, you're simply insulting me. That's hardly helpful. I would like to figure out your objections, so I can actually address them, and possibly incorporate them, altering the build plan into something more widely approved of and interesting.
: Eve's permastealth has always been the heart of her balance issues, as being able to circumvent vision and warding is absolutely huge for a champion that loves to gank. Eve usually ends up paying for this advantage by being underpowered in almost every other way. The kit above looks much easier to balance while still keeping Eve in her traditional role of a predator that appears from nowhere to take you apart. Unfortunately, this is also a role that {{champion:121}} {{champion:107}} also have and do well with. Why pick Eve with this new kit over them? What is the gameplay niche that Eve occupies that those other two don't bring to the table?
> [{quoted}](name=BastionKross,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ky5QBwru,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2015-03-09T14:54:20.382+0000) > > Eve's permastealth has always been the heart of her balance issues, as being able to circumvent vision and warding is absolutely huge for a champion that loves to gank. Eve usually ends up paying for this advantage by being underpowered in almost every other way. > > The kit above looks much easier to balance while still keeping Eve in her traditional role of a predator that appears from nowhere to take you apart. Unfortunately, this is also a role that {{champion:121}} {{champion:107}} also have and do well with. Why pick Eve with this new kit over them? What is the gameplay niche that Eve occupies that those other two don't bring to the table? Because she's geared around disables, not simply out and out assassination. This proposed kit relies on *momentum*, rather than the common and low strategy "nuke" tactic. She's there to debilitate and hunt, relying on the concept of *pain,* rather than simply blowing someone up. There's no enjoyment, considering her lore, in the instantaneous burst, no lingering satisfaction of having caused *suffering,* she simply goes boom and moves on. Only nowadays, she more goes pfft and... tanks badly for a little.
Thryale (NA)
: ah, see I didn't get the "kiss of death" aspect. And with "withering" I thought of nasus and seeing ppl just shrivel up. XD
> [{quoted}](name=Thryale,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ky5QBwru,comment-id=0001000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-03-09T07:13:39.929+0000) > > ah, see I didn't get the "kiss of death" aspect. And with "withering" I thought of nasus and seeing ppl just shrivel up. XD I'll continue to try to come up with a better adjective. :P
Orokiyam (NA)
: I agree, let's get rid of the invisibility. I think it makes the in-game model look bad and I dont want to buy a skin for her because of it because I wont see her half of the time.
> [{quoted}](name=Orokiyam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ky5QBwru,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2015-03-09T12:30:32.520+0000) > > I agree, let's get rid of the invisibility. I think it makes the in-game model look bad and I dont want to buy a skin for her because of it because I wont see her half of the time. I mean... I guess? That's not really my motivation. But I'm glad you agree, I suppose?
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KellenGrace

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