: Sadly, is too late. Aatrox is dead. Might as well roll with it and adapt but maintain his legacy and old memories.
Honestly it's just not acceptable. Riot is ruining him completely. I don't care how much they wasted on this remake. They should can it.
Nosnide (NA)
: Does Udyr deal too much damage right now?
Yes he deals too much damage, but he needs to deal too much damage to be viable lmao His design is really, really bad.
: There's still time to avoid hotfix-buffing Aatrox
How about just cancel the update because it sucks in every possible way
Hibeki (NA)
: A) they are forcing other roles out of botlane because of their effectiveness B) Their kit promotes non interaction Its just ADCs but worse
relying on skillshots to set up ability combos = promotes non-interaction, oh ok
: > [{quoted}](name=Khristophoros,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kM2zk5Tm,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-22T12:35:54.388+0000) > > You missed the point. Yasuo's passive was buffed because the IE changes made him weaker. He was a lot stronger with the old version of IE. oh so because an item made a champion indirectly weaker, can i be expecting a buff from tristana vayne kalista varus and every other crit champ?
They are buffing crit ADCs next patch if you were paying any attention
Hibeki (NA)
: Its taken a double mage botlane meta and you still havent realized Frostfang is the problem
needHymn (NA)
: Tenacity should give a % chance to entirely dodge displacements.
lmao RNG is stupid, but this kind of RNG is really the worst.
needHymn (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Khristophoros,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EmvrPnEx,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-22T15:51:07.180+0000) > > They iceboxed the new items because the game was changing too fast. Wait what? The items are in the build creator tool in the client, I've been adding them to my champions. They're not going to be added to the game?
I think they want to add them in a future patch but they haven't decided exactly when yet. Here is the tweet on it: https://twitter.com/itslowbo/status/1006364777310969859
needHymn (NA)
: Spear of Shojin should either be melee only, or...
They iceboxed the new items because the game was changing too fast. Personally I think the concept of flat DR is too hard to balance though. The effectiveness returns of adding to flat DR are exponential scaling. Like say the incoming damage is 100. 25 flat DR is 25% reduction which is an EHP increase of 33%. 50 flat DR is 50% reduction which is an EHP increase of 100%. 75 flat DR is 75% reduction which is an EHP increase of 300%. So as you can see, the scaling is actually not linear. Of course this was assuming that we know how much damage is received, so it's obviously not as broken as %DR stacking because if the damage received in the above example is 200 instead of 100 then basically cut in half the benefit. However, the relative benefit of flat DR stacking is still exponential. The problem with that is that the benefit you gain from stacking it outpaces the benefit enemies gain from stacking damage, as illustrated by the following example: So if you have 25 DR and the enemy deals 50 damage, then you are reducing it by 50%. Let's say they managed to buy 50 more damage, but you managed to buy 25 more DR. So they bought twice as much damage as you bought DR. They should have gained some ground against your defense, right? Well no. Now they deal 100 and you reduce 50 so you're still reducing it by 50%. **TLDR; Flat damage reduction (especially if you can scale it like Spear of Shojin) is just a dangerous, hard to balance mechanic because of how it scales with itself.**
Rioter Comments
Rexxiee (NA)
: Ppl are talking about bruisers being everywhere, but in fact mages are the ones taking over the map
: Playing Garen for the first time, it's really funny how nobody has any expectations of him
idk I was playing some Predator Lethality Garen a while ago and a few teams got mad at me for it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Khristophoros,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dJjF3vok,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-06-22T12:57:34.287+0000) > > They really should give him an update and get rid of that crit chance. i disagree. they should add an attack speed scaling to his e and give him additional spins for building bonus attack speed. {{item:3046}} wouldnt actually be a bad item on him, if the attack speed wasnt a shitty stat for garen. his crit scaling is one of the things that make garen unique as a juggernaut, it increases his build diversity and should be embraced. i wish theyd make {{item:3031}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3053}} build or {{item:3095}} as a single crit item as viable as his regular bruiser builds.
I think attack speed on his E would be great but really would you build crit chance anyways? I think it would be better to go stormrazor and then all lethality items. Crit chance kinda feels like a noob trap.
: Laning is boring as hell in HotS, you just try not to die and stay in XP range. Some heroes are insanely strong laners and you can't even go near them. No one would complain about Yasuo if they had to lane against a Cho'Gall or Zagara.
lol nobody would complain about Yasuo if you could just stand in xp range for the whole laning phase anyways. Like who even cares if all you have to do is stand there and maybe shove it back if he tries to shove it into your turret?
: one word; lane experience. If you got a set amount of gold from minions dying nearby instead you would still be rewarded for pushing someone out without the minigame that is csing (just look at HotS). If anything the idea of cs makes lanes less interactive imo.
There is way less depth to the interaction without CSing. Whenever you last hit that opens up a punishment opportunity. there are countless videos on this but here's a good one https://youtu.be/iko2tqmDpJQ This is why HotS will always be painfully shallow in comparison to League and DotA. edit: accidentally had somebody's reupload video url. fixed it to the url for the original video.
: The act of farming for your gold isn't necessarily thought to be an interesting experience, per say. It's mean to be as @Khistophoros said, "a means to encourage interaction" much like farming for minerals and gases in Starcraft. Messing with your opponents supply is just interaction. I've known friends that weren't into the whole farming experience. They just wanted to play the map macro and fight others so they opted to pick up HotS or another type of game entirely, and that's fine, It's not for everyone.
They could play support or jungle tho {{sticker:sg-janna}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Khristophoros,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kM2zk5Tm,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-22T12:35:54.388+0000) > > You missed the point. Yasuo's passive was buffed because the IE changes made him weaker. He was a lot stronger with the old version of IE. Yee i agree cause im a yasuo main, Yas is such a squishy and he can be bursted if he gets rooted or CC so like.... :^)
the :^) makes me think you feel like you got way too good of a deal out of that patch overall lol
Alex Luu (NA)
: Anyone wish there were more attack speed+tanky stat(s) of some kind items?
I think Riot is afraid to release good armor options for AD champs because both top laners and bot laners would rush it whenever they are against another AD, which is "usually" But that thinking was based on a meta where you were _always_ against other ADs and there was no Conqueror rune so maybe it's time for AD/Armor and AS/Armor items to be added to the game. It would also help those crit ADCs carve out a niche because they naturally build anti-armor in their core build with the new IE.
: What if Dark Harvest could proc on jungle monsters?
It would become mandatory on most junglers because clear times and objective killing is so important. That's why Riot did not add any keystones which can deal damage to jungle monsters. In fact it's already sort of a problem that Precision synergizes with Machete and you can get some slight healing and speed out of Fleet Footwork. I think if you kite the camps properly you can significantly buff your clear times using a FFW page. In a perfect world runes would not have any significant effect on jungle clear times because the whole point of runes is to give you deeper strategic options. When there's a "best page for jungling" you don't really have a choice as a jungler. It's not ideal.
: > [{quoted}](name=Khristophoros,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BALno5tw,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-06-22T12:29:24.930+0000) > > Break even point with 40% and 15 flat is 37 MR so lol Well, I'm more incline to believe that the item is not a good buy unless someone is building resistances. If you reference Phreak's Patch 8.4 notes rundown, you'll see that Void Staff isn't gold efficient until the target has over 90MR. Now, even if it's equal to 15 pen at 37 MR, you're still technically not gold efficient, and you should opt for more RAW AP instead. Source: https://youtu.be/2w7PmQ_nw0M?t=16m26s
It's not good to rush early because it lacks other things you need like mana, cdr, defense, or utility. However my point is that damage isn't the problem. It's _always_ a good damage item. If you want to calculate vs raw AP you should do the same for flat pen because at this point it comes down to your base damage vs ratios. So how early Void Staff or any pen item becomes good strictly for damage is very champion specific. edit: Oh yeah I forgot about the cost efficiency. So I guess you pay more for the pen compared to the flat pen items.
Lapis (OCE)
: Do people actually like csing?
CSing itself is not fun, interesting, or interactive. However, it creates interaction in lane by creating opportunities for players to punish each other. Without the need to CS for your gold you wouldn't need to interact with your lane opponent.
: Why does Garen's E scale with crit chance?
When Garen was designed there were more options for crit such as http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Atma's_Impaler Also, Youmuu's Ghostblade used to have crit and he could use it for movement speed. So in the past, there were actually some ways to get crit for him without completely troll building. They really should give him an update and get rid of that crit chance. The best way to build him for damage is full lethality now so there's no point to the crit on his kit anymore. Attack speed on his spin would be useful because it would work with items like Trinity Force and Stormrazor.
echorev (NA)
: You know what to hell with it, I'm just gonna give up on any champ that can't abuse Domination
This is basically you: "DUDE THEY ARE ADDING 2 MORE AP / 1 MORE AD THAT'S IT. THAT'S THE STRAW THAT BREAKS THE CAMEL'S BACK. EVERYONE MAIN ZED OR GO HOME!"
: So since Yasuo got his passive buffed due to IE changes...
You missed the point. Yasuo's passive was buffed because the IE changes made him weaker. He was a lot stronger with the old version of IE.
: The answer is "No, not really." If the champions that you're playing against aren't building magic resist items then you're better off buying more raw AP and flat penetration items like Sorc Boots and Morello. Void Staff is % penetration and therefore doesn't do as much work to targets with low magic resist values.
Break even point with 40% and 15 flat is 37 MR so lol
: Should i buy Void Staff even if the enemies aren't doing MR items?
I'm guessing it's probably worth it at like 3rd or 4th item generally if you're looking at pure damage output and nothing else. 40% magic pen breaks even with 15 flat magic pen for enemies with about 37 MR so it's pretty much always going to be equal or better than Morello's or Sorc Shoes for damage. It also applies before flat pen so it synergizes with those items. But it has no mana, CDR, defense, or utility so that's why I think it's better to wait till later to get it.
: Playing a Bruiser still does nothing. Dead before the duration is over. Whether I build Steraks for anti Burst or not
Then you're behind and you should be looking to solo farm and ignore your team. And yes I know chances are you just lose the game in this scenario. Tenacity isn't the only "lose more" thing if you're a behind bruiser. Everything is lmao. Top lane is such cancer. Like what are you gonna do honestly? Go try to farm while getting shoved in and dived? Go to teamfights where you will die instantly? Being a behind bruiser you can only pray that your team won on every other front in the early game. This isn't an issue with tenacity. It's an issue with bruiser champion design, the nature of top lane, and the general insane amount the game snowballs.
: What if there was a tank item you could build from Tear?
Mostly pointless outside of edge case abusers. Tanks already have Catalyst which gives you mana for tanking damage and builds into Abyssal which is perfect for tanks who want MR. It would be very helpful if we could build an armor item from Catalyst though.
: Tenacity is a Lose More stat
It's just situational. In a teamfight if you are a squishy champ and get hit by a stun chances are there will be followup CC and enough burst that reducing any of that CC doesn't matter. But if you are a tank or bruiser chances are you can do something with any window of time there is between chained CC. Tenacity can potentially open up small windows in between CC that otherwise would be perfectly chained. If you are against champs with long range CC like Morg or Lux, Tenacity can reduce the window of time that the CC creates for the enemy team to follow up and actually catch you. But against Lux if you're a squishy champ you'll just die to her ult anyway so it still might not necessarily be useful in that situation. So you have to ask yourself, if I have tenacity, specifically how will it help in actual situations I will be in, given the enemy champs and my champ?
bbQsauçe (EUW)
: The only condition for luden's to be proc'ed is to hit a spell on a champion or minion nearby, duskblade condition is to be unseen. I don't think duskblade is effectively proced more than luden's, especially against spammy mages like xerath, zoe, brand.
I was talking about target access, meaning they have the mobility to actually get in and do their combo. Luden's is pretty good for pokes because it can be applied from long range via spells, but in general mages don't have good target access for unloading their full combo compared to assassins. So Luden's vs Duskblade is not a good comparison. Duskblade had to be nerfed because the champs who are able to use it also have good target access and high burst in their kits already. It's better to compare Duskblade to the Hextech items because those items provide the most burst for AP champs, but they can't be applied at long range, so they also favor champs with high target access.
bbQsauçe (EUW)
: Luden's echo is as powerful as duskblade
Assassins have way better target access so they have more opportunities to use extra burst from items like this. But anyway, Hextech Gunblade, GLP, and Protobelt add more burst with their actives than Luden's or Duskblade. The only good thing about Luden's is you can apply it with pokes from long range.
peprei (NA)
: ARAM Item additions reverted?
Warmog's is necessary as long as poke is gonna be as strong as it is. The new items were awesome. Totally want them back.
: Everyone prefers the soaking up 5000 damage and healing up in 2 seconds playstyle {{champion:45}} {{item:3083}}
So they should remove an item because of one specific champ? Yeah I think they should remove {{item:3124}} to balance out {{champion:96}} in ARAM what a great way to balance the mode!
Amorith (NA)
: Ok I will lmao.
Well there's that one challenger panth one trick so obviously he's a consistent enough champion to be played up to challenger.
Bârd (NA)
: About the incoming nerfs to W max Zoe...
As of today's PBE update the only significant nerf is the AP ratio which is not related to which skills you max first. The duration at max rank is going down by 1 second but overall there's not very much happening to make it worse to max it. They reverted the movement speed percentage nerf which IMO is stupid. I get what you're saying but it's pretty stupid that she has a 70% movement speed buff on her kit that she can potentially refresh several times in a fight. If you want the rank up bonus to be good then the base should be lower. It starts at 30% movement speed which is also kind of ridiculous for this ability to have at rank 1.
Amorith (NA)
: That doesn't change the fact that he's binary.
I don't think he's as binary as assassins. If he can't snowball his lane he can still be useful for his team since he actually has hard CC.
Amorith (NA)
: Pantheon is the definition of a binary champion.
Amorith (NA)
: Holy fuck rework fiddle's Q
Try not walking up to him Also keep in mind if he maxes Q first he deals literally 0 damage.
Rivenne (NA)
: Twisted Fate's blue/red/gold cards can't work with Stormrazor
Stormrazor also gets consumed by things like Ezreal's Q without critting iirc. Anything that counts as an autoattack even if it can't crit. You want to autoattack as TF? Solution: Play on-hit TF instead.
: LCS - Efficiency is not entertaining
Imagine if pro sports leagues did what you're suggesting. That should tell you everything you need to know. If you want "entertainment" watch the harlem globe trotters.
Rioter Comments
FireDrizzle (EUNE)
: Black cleaver is now an assasin item
I'm pretty sure it's been a Zed item for a while. He kinda double dips with the armor reduction debuff because of how death mark works.
Add92 (NA)
: Why I always ban Leblanc when I queue mid
I ban her too lol Just fuck that champion. I just hope Riot doesn't buff any other champs to be as bullshit as her. If it gets to that point they are basically saying "Learn one of these champs or go home"
: I mean if it were a direct damage skillshot lie every other one I would see your point, but her E is supposed to be counterplayed against the effect if it lands. It just doesnt have a counterplay to the effect that isn't beneficial to Illaoi.
I think you've just misinterpreted the design intention of the skill. Why would you assume you're supposed to get additional counterplay after getting hit by it if it doesn't even do anything besides create the ghost? All it does is create opportunities for Illaoi to damage you. Most skillshots just directly damage or CC you. It's supposed to put you in a catch 22 _instead of doing direct damage_. No matter what option you pick after getting hit, it's not going to be very pleasant. The end result is you_ will take some damage_ and your only counterplay after being hit is to figure out how best to reduce that damage, but you will never fully nullify it. The design might seem to suggest that you should be able to get out of it completely unharmed but that would be a terrible ability for any champion to have on their kit. So it's the same as any other skillshot. Don't like the effect? Don't get hit. That's actually all there is to it.
: I don't understand why Illaoi's Test of Spirit is designed to be a win-win scenario for her
: What is the counterplay to nocturne
There is no counterplay. Even if you are on your side of the map.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ekBkXx3X,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-18T04:00:38.028+0000) > > The fed enemy mid isn't solo carrying. The problem is that the game is essentially 4v5 now because our mid lane can't get back in the game and is too far behind to contribute anything, not that the enemy mid can kill all of us. i dont know. i feel like the enemy being able to win the 1 v 2 in a gank, likely getting first turret gold, enabling his jungler to do whatever the fuck he wants (like freely getting all the crabs/herald and counter jungling) because he has all the pressure, then likely roaming to snowball other lanes is solo carrying.
: I started doing the same after I got sniped for the first time. Didn't even consider the possibility of sniping.
The way I see it, if you like your current champion, chances are you won't like whatever you reroll into as much. So I always just toss it back and then consider it if nobody takes it.
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Khristophoros,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gEEzJ7r8,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-17T13:13:42.614+0000) > > Yes they do! y tho? Because if that's the case, then Dead Man's Plate makes no sense given it's literally the prosthetic Gangplank is wearing RIGHT NOW, or the fact the vast majority of the Hextech item usages are of champs who have NOTHING to do with hextech (Vlad, Kennen, ASol etc being the biggest users of Hextech Protobelt, for instance), or how marksmen champs typically build an inventory full of swords despite the fact they all attack via pew-pew, etc etc. You get the point. Champs really don't have to be tied to building in-game items that shares the same background with them, and never has it been the case.
Yeah and I'm gonna say it: It's stupid that the game has been out for 9 years and ranged ADCs still use swords.
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Khristophoros,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gEEzJ7r8,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-17T13:07:52.495+0000) > > If all the chemtech champs don't use them, it would be kinda lame. > > What kind of item would both SInged and Urgot use? I mean, I don't think a champion needs to actually use the item they build in-game in the lore itself.
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Khristophoros

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