: So youre saying a support should be able to go top/mid and be able to bully their opponents out of lane? Their main support aspects is their taunts (of which riot removed the feature that made galio a viable support) and shens W. >They both have ultimates that cannot even be used without an ally. That inherently causes them to rely on at least one teammate to make use of their kit. And they have 4 teammates to work with, likely one in range at all times no matter where they are on the map. Calling them a support would be deceptive, there are more top/mid/junglers that rely on their team a whole lot more than shen and galio, who can easily hold their own in a 1v1.
No. Not Support the lane, Support the Role classification under collection tab. Sorry for the lack of clarity. Many champions under that tab are taken Support in lane.
Keiaga (NA)
: Well all tanks that build defensively need a team since they lack the damage to do anything themselves
I don't mean playing well with a team I mostly mean their role classification since many champions in the support section of the new collection screen are champions that either must or have the ability to use abilities on allies for full effect.
Rioter Comments
: {{champion:28}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:517}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:134}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:142}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:163}} all CAN support but its hella situational Tali is really good at preventing engages with her kit be it by literally having an ability that punishes dashes or by knocking the enemy team around, and shes really good at rotating quickly
The all-skillshot set of abilities makes Taliyah very easy to mess-up and you're just asking to be flamed at that point lol. Swain is actually meta now. Other than that I'd put Syndra, Orianna, and Zoe all in C tier as slightly worse Lux supports (but still viable). The others are really pushing it, but if you main a champion its always better than playing a champion that's "meta" but you you know they don't fit your style.
: Time to admit that the blitz buffs were a HUGE mistake!
The thing is, Blitzcrank was already THE hook support, as they claimed he wasn't in the patch notes. No other champ's hook brings them all the way to the champion, the most is halfway. The problem is that he didn't do much after, and his competition - namely Pyke, can hook then get a pentakill thats counts as 10+ kills where Blitz can (quite fairly in comparison), kill just one at a time. So their solution is to buff his hook...by 100 range? He has two very braindead basic abilities that can be reworked into something fun but I guess not. Just buff his hook. Next time "Thresh isn't pulling people from 1.1k+ range, or getting pentakills so we're buffing his hook by 200 range and making his lantern last infinitely and he just moves it like Shen. That'll fix it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cbfEEs6s,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-09-30T22:54:22.059+0000) > > Yuumi is legitimately complete and utter garbage in soloq lol. I mean I don't mind because she's a fantastically shit design but she is awful. Yuumi is a champ with possibly the lowest skill floor period and extremely low skill cap and she is sitting on a 42% winrate lol. Again, I don't care about her being guttered but you can't just say she isn't guttered lol not awful, the players are just bad with her.
Maybe not then but definitely now. One of her iconic features was enabling champions to catch runners by hitting them with powerful Q slows. Now the slow is negligible. At all ranks. So you will be leveling heal most likely and just constantly heal while being untargetable, turning the lane into Harvest Moon farming simulator more than Janna or Soraka ever have before. Not really sure what they want her to be since she basically only has E and W enhancement. A weaker soraka and lulu respectively. The only thing she's good for is turning a hypercarry that gets 20/0 in mid and ditch her ADC to make them snowball even more with free AD/AP. Or help veigar reach his dream of 2k AP I guess.
Mihalikb (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kiwi Konova,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZH8KeIkq,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-29T11:39:18.375+0000) > > You duel him as normal and then hope he doesn't get crits and if he doesn't you win and win game. If he does, then you lose and he wins the game. Not much else to do except ban. Except he can go 0/8 but once he completes 2 items he can just start split pushing and melt every tower/drake in 3 seconds cuz reasons.
Yup. Basically thats step 2: Also win before he gets 2 items or lose. Rioto's flow chart for champs these days are very simple lol
datfatguy (OCE)
: How do you even play against Tryndamere
You duel him as normal and then hope he doesn't get crits and if he doesn't you win and win game. If he does, then you lose and he wins the game. Not much else to do except ban.
: Have we just given up on Sejuani for anybody outside of pro play now?
I like how they'll nerf sejuani in a hardbeat, but leave skarner. Who is taken for the same exact reason (R-bot that is tanky). Maybe fix the jungle, not the champions.
: No offense, but without her W Karma wouldn't even be a champion. Nerfing it isn't an answer to top lane. Honestly the only answer to getting her out of top lane is making other lanes more viable through a comprehensive rework where at least 2 of her abilities get reinvented (like when they reworked Sion/Urgot) Adding/Removing Utility on her current kit is just the difference between 0% play rate/ban rate/45% win rate and 10% play rate/25% Ban rate/53% Win rate.
I mostly meant the heal on W. Support karma almost never uses the empowered W, and mid only against certain close rangers. Top lane karma almost exclusively uses it. Nerfing all her damage and buffing her ratios could help to so she wants/has to build more ap to be effective. But I could see a rework for her. I think the W is the main thing to rework - point and click CC doesnt sit well with riot anyway. E shield could be ground-targeted and always AoE and shield for less if only hitting 1 target and more per target hit by it, buffing support karma and nerfing lane karma slightly. Just a quick no great thought idea.
: Karma is a tank/top laner now?
The excuse was to nerf her top lane viability mostly, so she's not such a versatile pro pick. In case they needed to know - Q damage ratio is not how you do that. If anything nerf the W... nerfing the Q (main and pretty much only source of damage) by a whole 20% guts her entirely in ALL roles, MAINLY support and mid, because thats what makes her shine. Why support karma now, for a shield - Janna has that beat, and now Janna does more damage than her too lol... Gutted for no reason Also - They nerfed her because she was a flex pick. Her winrate is average pro and normal, and she isn't even that strong nor the biggest playmaker. She was solely nerfed because champ select.. lmfao...
: I've always been of the belief that Heimerdinger is literally the most unhealthy champion in the game. He's like the Rengar of mages. You ask yourself if you have the prerequisites to beat him, and, assuming you don't, you just try to avoid confrontations with him as much as possible. This is because their damage is both high and extremely reliable, thus there's little counterplay beyond playing outside of their threat range. In Rengar's case, the prerequisite for beating him is to survive his burst then outstat him. For Heimerdinger, you must have the ability to remove his turrets without losing half of your health bar. Luckily, reaching that goal is doable with time. To achieve that goal, you'll first need gold to purchase MR/HP. You should let Heimerdinger push the wave to you, then farm under tur. Don't bother trying to contest him if you don't think he'll die to an all-in; It'll just result in you eating damage and being guaranteed to die if you try to all in him again. You use that gold to buy an Adaptive Helm or Spirit Visage. Assuming he hasn't taken a large amount of plates or FAR more CS than you, you can then proceed to run him down with something like a Nasus. Step 1 to that is removing his turs, you'll know he's out when he starts to sit on 2 or 1 turs for extended periods of times. That is your time to strike. I have no advice for ADCs, though they should be capable of taking his turrets down at any stage in the game.
Have you... ever played against him...? His turrets are easily killed by any ranged. His other abilities are easily telegraphed and skillshots. Multiple items can be bought to utterly gut him. Every champion that forces a QSS (malz, skarner, etc.) is more toxic than that. There are also many champions better for 1v2ing - like Illaoi for Nasus. In fact, for the OP's sake - he's only really that good in lane phase. Surprisingly, he's not all the great at taking turrets. He's decent but he's no split push god - you can either ignore him and win your team the fight or collapse on him at any time in the mid game. Go a even more toxic top laner, like Yorick or Illaoi. Tryndamere and Nasus are also good (any any ranged champion). They all have sustain and similiar lanning with dominant end game, beating heimer at pretty much every stage of your game. If you're mid, go basically any champion but Syndra for the luls and take his turrets. The only way you lose to a heimer if he really is a one trick pony with him, you might have to try then - or if your jungler does not understand him and causes you both to die in lane early due to a bad gank (this is typical how he wins most games)
Ahris (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kiwi Konova,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AgjoJjNN,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-09-26T10:05:45.324+0000) > > Not getting all the hate on Ori, even when she was very strong she was a nice laner to be up against. She had ever clear weaknesses and her damage ability combo is very dodgeable. She can wombo well, and that's nice, and that buff to her R will help - but her same weakness to assassins remains untouched. Play fizz or talon into her, like clockwork she will either get no cs or give you 300g as kill at level 3/2 respectively. What is Orianna's weakness?
Strengths/Weaknesses: Strength: 1. * Good waveclear. 2. * Moderate damage. 3. * Ease of dealing damage. 4. * Wombo ultimate. Weaknesses: 1. * Lowest base armor in the entire game. Relies of E to increase her armor, but she loses this as soon as she throws her ball. 2. * Low health. 3. * Automatically loses the lane to: Ekko, Syndra, all ad assassins, Fizz. 4. * Gated by mana even though she has low cooldowns. 5. * Relies more heavily on her team's cohesion and composition more than others, not all that great for solo queue.
: Shes an aoe, utility, ranged, dps, burst, mage, assassin. She bursts as hard as single target mages. From range. In an aoe. With both hard and soft cc.
Incorrect. Your hypothesis: "Shes an aoe, utility, ranged, dps, burst, mage, assassin. She bursts as hard as single target mages. From range. In an aoe. With both hard and soft cc." Corrected hypothesis: "Shes an aoe, utility, ranged, ~~dps,~~ burst-mage, ~~assassin.~~ ~~She bursts as hard as single target mages.~~ From range. In an aoe. With both hard and soft cc." Evidence: Disclaimer: * Very difficult to find a single target mage, I have used Syndra, Cassiopeia and Zoe as comparisons as they do significantly high single-target damage in different fashions. * Burst-mage is one archetype, there are Burst, Control, and Artillery mages among others. Mages are almost always bursty as it needs to be to make the class work. Adding both is evident of frustration and biased framework, and it repetitive at most. Orianna Base Combo: Q+W: Damage at lowest rank/highest rank: 120 (+130%) /// 420 (+130%). Zoe Base Combo: Q+E+obligatory auto: Damage at lowest/highest ranks (medium distance): ~285 (+200%) /// ~750 (+200%) Cassiopeia Base Combo: Q+E(2-4, 2 chosen for lowest typical ratios): Damage at lowest/highest ranks: 205 (+130%) /// 595 (+130%) Syndra Base Combo: Q+E: Damage at lowest/highest(with passive bonus) ranks: 140 (+135%) /// 563 (+165%) Statement: All three above "single-target" focused mages do more damage with their combos at all stages of the game, all at range and typically more range than what Orianna must achieve. Even when you factor ultimates (and fairly adjust Zoe's distance based damage), all three champions out damage Orianna's full combo. It is also apparent to compare weaknesses of champions who use their full combos and their leftover strengths: Orianna: Using Q,W,R she is left with no more CC and one shield left to keep her alive, lowest armor value in the game and loses extra armor from E while using ranged abilities). Zoe: Difficult to hit combo at first, incredibly easy to pull off combos even off screen later in the game, RNG based but unlimited summoners. Cassiopeia: Low movement speed early game, stun attached to ultimate as well, has miasma to negate mobility still. Syndra: Low mobility. Can hold onto her stun to use at any point. Conclusion: Orianna is fairly balanced burst style mage. She has low-range but can cs moderately well. She has the lowest base armor in the game and relies on holding onto her ball to get extra armor. At any point she chooses to move her ball she is open to incredibly high AD based damage trades. She loses or goes even with all assassins, but typically automatically loses to: Ekko and all AD assassins. She wins or goes even to most control/artillery mages but typically automatically loses to: Syndra. She does not outdamage single target mages, does not exert more zone control than zoning mages, and actually bursts for less than nearly all other mid laners - and is incredibly squishy. Her DPS is low compared to battle-mages and is gated by mana. She has no real mobility unless she uses W on herself. Her golden feature is wombo-comboing with other teammates and as such causes her to rely on teammates and the overall team comp more than most. Assumption: Buffing her ultimate changes are nothing but positive. Her only real unique identity is her ability to wombo, being able to do that with more damage is fine but doesn't change much about her win rate as her significant weaknesses are still in play as seen above.
: I hope Riot learns something from this season
The entire patch 9.19 was designed SOLELY for pro play, its very obvious. So I don't think so OP :(.
Crocele (NA)
: i wish galio had damage reduction back on his ult
Yeah, I was disappointed their means of fixing him were to buff his damage only last time. It was nice to have but his damage but was pretty good already. I would have preferred lower damage abilities if his ultimate could have utility added back into it (deserved, since he can no longer flash taunt and thereby has much less utility) - either that or drastically reduce the time it takes for the entire spell to function. Its already mediocre distance, long-cast time, interuptable, and lacks any damage reduction. It feels like walmart brand shen ultimate.
Meriipu (EUW)
: God forbid ori ever be unviable {{sticker:sg-lulu}}
Not getting all the hate on Ori, even when she was very strong she was a nice laner to be up against. She had ever clear weaknesses and her damage ability combo is very dodgeable. She can wombo well, and that's nice, and that buff to her R will help - but her same weakness to assassins remains untouched. Play fizz or talon into her, like clockwork she will either get no cs or give you 300g as kill at level 3/2 respectively.
: > [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0YEWHrQG,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-16T22:03:44.694+0000) > P.S. Nami having 52%+ winrate across all elo bellow challenger is somehow OK tho because we don't mind losing to her because it doesn't feel like she DUNKED OUR ASSES Thank god someone sees it besides me. Nami is VERY overloaded and has pretty much everything you need for every given situation aside from dashes (thank god).
Lowest HP in game (minus Ani?), miss Q and eliminated, Heal pretty subpar before you get AP - mana cost is crazy pre fully stacked mana rune. E is okay but meta ADC's barely use auto's and (Kaisa in 50% of games) will have ulted far from you to buff them. The ult is good. She's not overloaded.. skilled bubbles are rewarded justly. The meta is hook champs anyway, Nautilus vs. her will result in some roasted fish sticks.

Kiwi Konova

Level 88 (NA)
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