Riot Jag (NA)
: Teemo changes temporarily on PBE for early feedback
Honestly I had an idea of putting his Invis passive on his kit a long time ago but after playing it on pbe, I can 100% assure you guys that it feels awful to use. This is for sure not how I would go about "updating" teemo. Why don't you guys just combine his new W and E together? Like something like this. __Guerrilla Warfare__ __-Passive-__ Teemo gains invisibility if he stands still for 1 second without acting or being acted upon. He will remain stealthed so long as he doesn't move, doesn't act, or is displaced. If within a brush, Teemo gains stealth after 0.75 seconds even while moving and may move freely within its boundaries without breaking stealth. __-Active-__ Teemo doubles his bonus movement speed for 5/6/7/8/9/10 seconds and gains 0/20/40/60/80% slow reduction. If Teemo enters a bush during the duration of Guerrilla Warfare, he will instantly become invisible as long as he remains within the bush. Entering combat with a champion cuts the duration of Guerrilla Warfare in half. While Guerrilla Warfare is on cooldown, Teemo takes 2 seconds to gain invisibility regardless of where he is. --- Now this is just my own idea but he keeps his iconic Passive but puts it onto W/E, but gets an updated W that mixes well with his Passive AND gives him a chance against modern champs. Plus, by letting him go instantly Invisible with this up, it gives him some outplay potential. You can obviously balance it with a Long CD but this frees up E to be a new and actually interesting ability, instead of keeping W and making E a really crap Stealth (like actually the worst in the game tbh)
Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 13
Hey Meddler what every happened to that Twisted Treeline talk that was mentioned months ago? It just kind of died when you were looking at Funneling. It still exists and is still extremely strong so i am wondering what happened.
Ynam3190 (NA)
: Riot should create a mute all button.
type /mute all in chat. It mutes everything
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 30
Hey meddler. What ever happened to those changes to twisted treeline mentioned earlier this year? They were about funneling if i am not mistaken. What happened to that work? As well any thoughts on twisted trelibe work in the future?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 16
Hey Meddler can i ask whatever happened to those talked about looks into twisted Treeline and gold funneling? I havent heard about it in quite a while.
: > And her Ultimate being on a 90 Second Cooldown is the biggest issue no one wants to talk about. Her ultimate cooldown is longer than Annie's, which deals 400 (+ 65% AP) + 40 (+ 20% AP) (flame aura) + 200 (+ 30% AP) (aa) = 640 (+115% AP) Magic damage, which lategame is about ~100 damage less (but it also gives you a teddy bear). granted this is in a smaller area. A more similar ult would be that of Morgana, which has a longer cooldown in the early game, but a very similar cooldown in the lategame. It deals more damage than Neeko ult though, especially in the earlygame. > EDIT: I forgot to mention her Root is pretty dumb. Early game its a 1.8 second up to 3 second root that only needs you to hit at least 2 minions. That is something I think people are not talking about enough. This is why her trades in lane can be so powerful. Her root is about as long as Morgana root, is harder to hit (you HAVE to hit 2 characters, making it absolutely impossible to hit in jungle fights, though in lane it is about as hard to hit), and hits the last target hit, meaning you have to expose yourself in order to combo it with q. Honestly I don't get what issue people have with Neeko. To me she seems pretty balanced: Her ult has a slightly lower cd and lower impact than the most similar ult (morgana), and a higher cd and impact than Annie ult. Her basic abilities deal less damage than most other midlaners, though they also have a shorter cooldown, and her main damage output is onclick (W). The only thing I would note though is that she is the 3rd fastest champion with a non-ultimate movespeed buff (which to me seems a bit weird to put on a burst mage, but I wouldn't say it makes her overpowered)
To your first point, I mainly would like to see her ult tune to 120 at rank 1. This would help give a larger window for people to fight her in lane, as well as lower her threat level somewhat in early fights because if you make her waste her ult its down for a lot longer. 90 seconds is too forgiving in my opinion. Again, I am okay with her late game burst, its really all she has, but I can get behind people wanting some nerfs to it. I just don't want them to go over board when the major issue with that is her CD. As to the second people, i would say in mid lane, the E is pretty free to hit. It works like Ezreals W which is pretty fantastic but the empowered root is too rewarding for an ability that is too easy to land in lane. Morg can get away with her root mainly because her root is slow moving and can clip a lot of stuff. Neeko's is a little too easy to proc off minions which I would like to see changed in some way. Overall though, I agree with your sentiment about Neeko seeming pretty balanced. Overall I don't believe she is too overpowered. She does have some things that are a little too good but with proper touch ups, she can be fine. I really don't want to see her get overtuned in either direction at the moment.
: every dmg she has is bullshitt. but yeah, 1 shot aoe cc ultimate on low cd is kind of a small issue maybe >.>
Her damage is about the same to a lot of mid laners from my experience. However, I will say hers can be a little stronger than some especially when she gets snowballing.
: A counterpoint to this, as a Neeko player, is the sheer ball-busting high mana costs early game. With Frostfang, her base mana regen at start is only 1.9, and that can be infuriating if you have teammates who are prone to trying to rush a lane with Neeko in it. Lux's ultimate can get as low as 20 seconds or so, and it has some ridiculous power to it as well. Combined with her Q, similar one-shot deaths can be made with her combinations. Annie being able to run face-first into players and drop Tibbers + E is ridiculous, and I've seen her ultimate on <60s cooldowns too.
I will agree her mana costs are pretty strong honestly but its not the worse thing in the game. Seen champions spam abilities and never run out, even more so with Lost Chapters. As for the CD counter point to your counter point, look at champions like Karthus, Malz, Liss, Cass, Sol, etc. There ultimate are arguably equal high impact ults but the standard early game is 120 with some higher like Malz's 140. Why does Neeko have a flat 90? Sure late game you can get the others ultimates low but Neeko can get hers low faster than **should be** allowed. Thats a big red flag when i look at it. Not to mention her other abilities being fairly low and getting low quick with CDR.
Rioter Comments
: Progress towards Rise mission went from 26 / 35 to 22 / 35 instead of getting to 27 / 35
Same thing happened to me. Lost 5 points. Went from 23 to 18 and just real sad about that.
: Yeah. I think you should be able to earn a mastery token in any game mode. An S is an S and it shouldn't matter what mode it was in. S signifies that you did well on a champ and masteries are proof that you can play that champ well. (At least 6 and 7 are.) I was so upset the other day when I got an S- on Rakan in ARAM and didn't get a mastery 6 token. It was bad enough when I got an S and my mastery 5 on him in the same game so they wouldn't give me a token.
This has been my feelings on the matter since they introduced it. I played a lot of TT and it is just annoying that I can't get M7 despite putting my best forward just because I am playing not the main mode.
Rioter Comments
: Why Safe League Players Will Never Climb and Why Feeders Determine 94% of Games
One message I do want to put out there is that this is the test results for 1 singular person. Consider it like this. In those 50 games you played, each game would have had 9 other players. So in those 50 games you played with a grand total of 450 players. Now if imagine if those 450 other players played the same number of games as you, 50. That means in total you there were 22,500 games played that would MASSIVELY alter your results. Your sample size is waaaay to low when you consider that the last revealed number of players for league of legends was 100 million users every single month. Even if we were to narrow that down, the number of total players is still far to large for this total to be considered even remotely close to true result. For a much more accurate result you would need the data of say maybe 1000 players as a bare minimum. Not trying to be a downer or say your post isn't good, just stating that your data is very small and does not represent the total player base. To be fair though, I also agree with what you are saying here.
: What on earth could POSSIBLY justify Mastery 7 costing 6.5x as much as before?
The short and sweet of it? A cheap and easy way to give players a IP dump without having to invest in many new resources. Pretty much the biggest reason I can see in increase it's prices. It's something for people with tons of IP to use.
: Finally quitting this game
**Free to Play games** - Atlas Reactor Battlerite Paladins Path of Exile Warframe Gigantic Neverwinter War Thunder World of Warships **Pay to Play games** - Rainbow 6 Seige Aram 3 Absolver Note* - I'll update this when I get home if you want more suggestions.
iLBGAMing (EUW)
: This game has became an unhealthy addiction for me, I wish I could quit it.
> [{quoted}](name=iLBGAMing,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rV4WNklF,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-12-11T12:32:30.538+0000) > > This game has became an unhealthy addiction for me, I wish I could quit it. If you can drop it for a couple of days, it gets really easy to quit it in the long run. It's like a mobile game. The moment you lose your gains, you can start falling down hill. League is becoming more like a mobile game in that way. If you drop it for a couple of days, it starts losing any of the luster it may of had. I went from tons of league games every day to only playing once or twice a weak. Only other thing making me play it more is when friends want to play but otherwise, nothing.
: Unpopular opinion: I hope volibear doesnt become meta
Honestly we can wish for Volibear buffs all we want but people are blanking on the times when Voli was not just good but meta. What a fucking shit hole of a time that was.
: Why pick a bruiser when tanks can outtrade early and offer more utility
The hard truth. Why pick a brusier when a tank offers all the exact same things but better?
: Firing CertainlyT
The problem is CertainlyT puts too much into his design when he needs to pull back. The biggest thing I can say about a majority of his champion designs are they are just filled to the brim with stuff. They are good at a lot and cover too many bases where they should have a weakness. The other half of the problem is the team not see the core issue of the problems and buffing and nerfing without proper focus. The Yasuo buffs for example are completely misguided reasoning and yet that's probably CertainlyT's fault too. When a champion comes out and has a problem, we shouldn't just pick one guy and nail him to the ground, we should look at Riot face to face and say, hey, this has a problem, this is how we think you can fix this, fix it. Of course that comes at the community actually agreeing on what's the problem, than Riot listening to the community which is a pretty big issue on the surface level.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 8
Hey Meddler a weird question for you but now that Teemo is cropping up again does the team think that maybe it's time to get some proper work? Teemo historically feels like a champion without a true role on a team and all he ever does is bully the shit out of his laner and hope to gain a lead off that. Yet, it never feels like he is bringing any true niche or role to a team. Would he be a good champion for one of those gameplay update / a full rework? He just feels rip for the picking and could honestly use the update. There is a lot to due with Teemo and I can his "scout" role being pushed further. Thoughts? I'd love to here them!
: Hey now, they didn't beg rudely or make wild claims this time. All they did was propose some potential changes. There is dismissing content because it is low quality, but I don't get the sense that that is the case anymore here. Y'all are just dismissing Ahris because they have been annoying in the past. There's no need for us to be dicks to them.
To be fair he keeps lying that Ahri has been hit hard with the nerf hammer when in 5 seasons she has mostly received buffs with some love tap nerfs. It doesn't take long to just look up the patch history of Ahri and see Ahris is trying to start fires where there isn't any.
: Why is Xerath being nerfed before Miss Fortune?
Hard to compare a Marksman winrate/pickrate to a mage, assassin, tank, etc due to the sample size and general idea of the class as a whole. You will always have a winner and lose with a Marksman, with high pick rates that skewer the winrates and pick rates quite a bit. I am not disagreeing that MF shouldn't be hit but there is a good reason as to why their numbers of just winrate and pick rate are not the best to use in a discussion. Now if they have a 60% winrate, I am not saying you can't argue that but if it's only 50%-55% than it's much harder to argue since that's just the standard when you have a meta that favours one type of marksmen over another.
: I'm not sure where OP pulled this quote from. And we need the community's help to correct things like this: > So far i havent seen those "more skin shards" in boxes, 0 skin shards from leveling up too. Skin shards from leveling up? That's not a thing. It's really harmful to upvote misinformation like this. To really understand about the orange essence nerfs, [here's a really detailed post about the orange essence nerfs](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/fRZopjhE-bring-back-the-old-value-of-orange-disenchant-riot?comment=0009) I made a while back on these boards. Please let us know how you feel about the explanation given there—I promise I'll pass on your feedback to the devs. Just do me a favor and make sure you read the post so your feedback is based on what we actually said about it!
Think your missing the point here Cap. Orange essence was nerfed and from all the sources I've seen there was a clear understanding that we would be receiving more skin shards overall (or at least more sources of Orange Essence) to equal out the trade off. Yet I can confirm that I have not seen anymore Skin shards or Orange essence sources that what was normal. Like actually nothing more than what I may have normally received. So where is that increase? Where are the more sources to equal out? There places to put them are there, the money amounts are still there. But I see no value increase on the consumer end of things. Just decreases.
: Hey Dakuda330. This might sound hard to believe, but even though we don't always respond, **we actually do read the boards every day.** This is sort of taking it off-topic, but I think you're probably right that we don't really engage on the boards as much as we used to. Just to be super real with you, I guess I can share my thoughts about some problems we have with the boards: First, **the boards are really small compared to other English-language League communities.** If you're just looking at these official boards, you might think the League community is tiny. But it's not. It's just that most players ignore the boards. Basically our policy when it comes to engaging with players is to go wherever players go, whether that's Discord, Twitter, Facebook, or whatever other League community pops up. We don't really care about controlling the community or trying to make our official boards the biggest community—we'd rather let players decide where to go and then join them as members there. I personally post on [the League of Legends subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/) a lot. At any given point in time there's at least 30,000 people online simultaneously there. That dwarfs these boards by a lot. One other thing I've been thinking about recently is that there are actually fundamental problems with these boards. The biggest is that **there's almost no reason to go here unless you have a complaint about the game.** Since we really do read everything on the boards, players with issues know they can come here and get their complaint seen. This has the unfortunate side effect of turning the boards into a super concentrated echo chamber of salt. Just as an example, there's a poster in this thread who currently has 9 upvotes for saying "they turned a once fun game into a pile of dog shit designed to make them money, except now there isn't enough interest to actually make them any money." Compare that to the stuff you see on any other more-popular League community (like the subreddit) and it quickly becomes pretty obvious that **this board is dominated by extreme opinions that don't actually reflect the feelings of the broader League community at all.** So, even if we read it, we're not going to give comments or posts like that too much weight. I'm curious about your opinions on this, OP: do you think we should have Rioters posting in every single thread in the boards? Or does it make sense for us to take our current "read everything, respond when it's really important" approach? Obviously I know how I feel about it, but I'd like to see your thoughts now that I've explained our perspective.
I think it's still fair for Rioters to at least comment on some of the posts we see here. Even if it the boards can be an echo chamber (which is frankly really shitty to hear Riot say = basically equals not taking this place seriously from a customer perspective), it is worth some answers. I see a ton of Twitch talk but no real comment from Riot on the champion? Same with Ezreal. Same with items. Same with so many things. Sometimes you have to just look and say, wow, maybe we should pitch in. So why not? I mean I would love to have an answer why you guys won't even share an opinion on some when it dominates the boards.
: You could say the exact same thing for a Lux/Morg/Anivia Q or Xerath/Syndra/Vel'Koz/Ahri/Veigar E though. Getting hit by a burst mage's CC is basically a death sentence on any champion, not just Zoe.
My thing is all of those have some clear weakness to their abilities. Morg and Anivia are slow as balls. Syndra needs a bull. Vel'Koz has a clear tell. Ahri, Lux and Xerath are a little trickery but they are all fairly short overall. Veigar's E varies but it's probably the strongest one there. I think if we want to compare pick, I would compare it too Elise's cocoon. Those two are comparable due to their raw power (2 seconds of stuns), the following burst from the champions and what matters most, the speed and visibility. Seriously, Zoe's E can be hard to see when you are close, can be hard to tell you even have been hit by it to be honest, and it moves REALLY fast. At a standard cast range, this sleep can be fairly difficult to react to and when it hits, it has a massive effect. For at least 1 second, a person is just out of a fight. Most people will look to find some cover because they know how deadly this effect is. That's before you even get into the CC part. Than you have 2 seconds of hard CC that massively debuffs you. So now you have a long CC effect that is fast and comes with a debuff. That's before we even get into the range and the extra effect of it becoming a trap. Zoe can possibly effect a lane she is only somewhat close to making her has a lot more map pressure than you may think. Seriously, Zoe could be at dragon and throw a trap almost all the way to bot lane. This has some insane power someone can use and the effect is so powerful it hurts. Zoe's E is to Zoe what Ardent was to Enchanters. It is the champion.
Rexxiee (NA)
: "we nerfed orange esssence because you'd be getting more skin shards"
Honestly, haven't gotten any more skin shards than I would normally get. Don't see how I am getting more. Nice try Rito.
MysterQ (NA)
: I know. Many people are confusing them. BUT those same people who say "I got confused" also say 'Great story, well developed...." Take out the comic, music video, gay people. Is it good?
I think at the core, it has some good ideas but it was just poorly put together overall.
: The Twitch nerf is just a revert. 2 procs is still worse than stacking since if you landed right (aka not suck at the game) the lingering slow was enough to make 2 stacks appear, with about maybe a 0.5 second delay, but who cares? The point is his waveclear is nerfed. Bruisers can't really hurt tanks. Cleaver didn't need the nerf it got, so it's just a revert but also an 'ok, adcs won't be able to get this nerfed' clause. BoRK was made for bruisers and they want it as a tank killing item. Not even Jax, the number 1 attack speed bruiser, wants the item. That says a lot. Why an interaction? It helps Aatrox and tank killer Renekton builds; nothing huge. I would rather change Rageblade to, instead of Phantom Hit, have it's old passive so that it doesn't break onhits like Jax's R-passive, Aatrox W, ect, but also doubled stacks and less AP, more AD. For displacements like Lee's R, tenacity could just make the kick faster rather than toss you out half way.
I still heavily disagree with the interaction. Those two items should not interact like that. I understand the desire for tank killing but that doesn't solve the problems of BoRK being a fighter item. I agree on Rageblade. Phantom hit was never a good idea. That still causes for a lot of really weird or stupid interactions. Tenacity affecting anything that doesn't have a static number tied to it is just going to be super difficult to make work. Making something like Lee's R move you faster also seems odd when you consider tenacity is making you bulkier but it is moving you faster? Really I don't have an answer to this because it's complicated. If it were up to me though, I'd just make the distance travelled lessened. Works for other games so I don't see why not.
Tuplamela (EUW)
: That list makes me think you are salty Jax main like Hashashin. I mean, yes Jax is trash tier with the games being as short as they are. But you also cannot expect to be able to pick a hard carry top lane AND have an easy lane. To make Jax / Irelia better the games need to be longer (and maybe adc items need to cost more).
: Your Overcharge mode really sucks and is not fun. If it werent a mission i wouldnt play it.
I wanted to shoot myself playing that gamemode for more than 2 minutes. Felt awful all the time.
: Your Overcharge mode really sucks and is not fun. If it werent a mission i wouldnt play it.
I wanted to shoot myself playing that gamemode for more than 2 minutes. Felt awful all the time.
: Riot, you cannot ignore this preseason. Bruisers are a joke.
I normally don't agree with you. However, I will agree with some of what you say but I'm going to add some two cent into this. > {{champion:29}} W no longer applies passive over time, applies 2 stacks when the spell hits instead. This change is good and bad in some ways. Applying 2 stacks right away lowers his DPS over time (what I think is healthy) but increases his upfront burst power. Since if someone dashes out of the AoE they get away with one stack versus now 2. It's a chance at a dangerous outcome that creates a new problem. It's all but slim though. I do think Twitch needs a larger scale of work done though to really fix his core problems. > {{item:3075}} Nerf it. If it sucks vs ADCs, then buff it against ranged only. Doesn't need to totally negate bruisers. What you want to actually hit here is {{item:3076}}. This item is good, Thornmail on the other hand is worse than Bramble. This own item set as a whole is pretty poorly done. Bramble is an item that needs to exist but it's too good at the moment while Thornmail is a lot weaker. I honestly think the combination of the two are just destined to fail. > {{champion:57}} Nerf his base AD and base AS, then stop his permahealing. Honestly, his biggest issue is CDR being so easy to get and him just massively benefiting from it on him and against him. He is just one of those champions that has tankiness, CC and damage to boot. I think his Cool downs either need to be longer and his damage needs to be lower. His passive could has a slight increase to it's cooldown as well. Really there are a number of possiblities with Maokai but CDR is the biggest problem here. > Nerf into unviablility until you fix their kits from auto winning vs melee champions I mean just the simple factor of having range or rapid poke means you'll beat out melee champions. What these champions need is some defined weakness that opens up counter play while keeping these champions as viable options. Half of them require a rework and I do agree need to be shit on by the balance team (namely pantheon and akali) while the yordles need a defined weakness to their bullshit that isn't just, they are squishy. > {{champion:90}} Just nerf. Just rework it. This champion will never be balanced because he is the perfect mid laner. Remove this design from the game completely and try again. > {{item:3071}} Armor pen increased to 30% (5% per stack), now disables the passive 'Last Whisper' so ADCs can't abuse it hard. I don't think that is the solution to Brusiers. Also just make Black Cleaver have a name passive "Last Whisper" so the two don't stack. > {{item:3153}} Changed to be not shit on bruisers. Maybe make it double stack Cleaver IF melee. That sounds like a terrible idea. Why would you add an interaction like that at all to the item? Why do Brusiers even want Blade to begin with? It's more just a small niche item but only champs getting a ton of AS can abuse it so are we trying to buff on-hit champions? I don't get it. > {{item:3022}} Melee only. One up you. Remove from game. Permaslows are never going to be healthy and there is a rune that is already this item but 10x healthier. Remove this shit from the game completely because only 2 champions really abuse it and one is ranged and one is melee. Just get rid of it. > {{item:3124}} Made not shitty on melee. Adjust the gains for 8 stacks and make it double stack on melees. So it takes a lot longer for a ranged to use it while a melee can stack it rapidly. I would also go a step further and decrease the gold but that one is hard to say. I could see the item being 3200-3400 comfortable. Works out to being like Fervor was. > {{item:3156}} Either stack with Sterak's (Graves can't abuse it anymore, Sterak's is melee only) or buff it in a way that makes it better for bruisers and no one else (like reduce base shield but give it a health ratio). Health Ratio bit is probably the way to go. > TENACITY: Reduces displacements/airborne/knockups. This one is really hard to pin point a fix too. How do you reduce the effects? Do you reduce their duration? Do you reduce their distance? Also pretty sure suppression are the same, not effected by Tenacity and really I think they should. You also need to consider how greatly that is effected. If I am Garen and I get 80ish Tenacity, do I just move a inch if Lee Sin kicks me? What is fair and what do we consider reasonable. Also, how do we provide people with the information to know that if I use my CC on this guy, he will not care about it? I do agree, it needs to be consistent, but we got to settle how that will look. I have some issues with the rest but really I'm fine with them. The items likely need to be toned down anyways and Lulu is a horrible design while Raken is just overbearing at everything he does. Honestly, nothing too drastic and you seem pretty calm and collected here. Nice post.
MysterQ (NA)
: I agree. It frustrates me when other posters say Valmar and Kai are well developed. Like no?? they are not. Some people though do have great backstories for them, but for me I could not relate or care about them at all.
Honestly when I made my post talking about them, I was not joking when I mixed them up. On a surface level, Kai and Val have no features to make them different. They are, at the core, the same person and there is no reason to try and tell them apart. They don't even have a base level of difference like Xayah and Raken for a better example.
: Riot has already put Yorick and Jarvan nerfs on the PBE ASAP
Honestly I have a far greater issue with J4 than Twitch. Hell, hardly even see Twitch get played lately.
Rioter Comments
: > Varus was an old character who had a workable story. Riot's team opted to throw Varus's story away even though they could have easily tweaked it to fit the new lore. There's another topic on the boards about this but I feel it's true, Varus' old lore was completely workable in the post-retcon world. They could have done the three souls in one body thing with Varus' son instead. Instead they retconned it. Why? I mean hell, they could take Ahri and instead of a sexy Asian-inspired fox girl they could retcon her into a black-skinned Afro-wearing hyena girl instead. What's the difference? They're both half-animal seductresses right? To me, it shows a glaring issue with Riot's lore in that the Retcon still affects the lore to this day. Nothing is sacred. What is a "placeholder" and what's not? Miss Fortune and the most recent champions seem canon but are they? It's been a pretty bad couple of weeks of reception for Riot lore. Zoe and especially Varus were pretty polarizing. **Possible Solutions to Varus' Post-Retcon Reception** I think if the gay couple of more developed. If their human designs were reworked to be much, much MORE distinctive - like literally Valmar and Kai are the blandest champion(ish?) characters shown. I think if they made Valmar (who is the protector of the well, I think?) the one who stays behind at the temple, deciding to fulfill his duty to keep the temple safe first and foremost and praying his lover Kai is alive - then Kai stumbles in and collapses and Valmar realizes he needs the well to take vengeance and save his lover's life - they could have salvaged a lot of Varus' old lore (the themes of duty vs love, decision to willingly take in the corruption for vengeance). It would have also made the dynamic between Kai and Valmar stronger if they were shown their differences in comics through more than just... basically talking heads although that's probably an issue with their bland character designs.
Honestly, Kai and Val needed more. I cannot tell them apart and neither does Varus. If one third of the champion doesn't care, why should I care.
: Why Varus's new lore was doomed to fail.
Honestly I am kind of not trying to take sides. My biggest compliant is Riot did not give us a Val and Kai colour story to truly care about these characters before we jumped into Varus. I cannot honestly tell you the differences between the two of them and that's heavily due to a total lack of development. I honestly think the new lore is good and can work. It is just lacking in a lot of ways and even then, it had so much better potential. It's just kind of disappointing honestly :/
: Zoe's E is so frustrating to play against
Honestly if I have no problem with Zoe as a whole. Frankly, I don't consider her that amazing from my experience. However, when I see that E pick someone off for the 50th time and know that person is now dead 100% because they got hit by E, I know, that shit is the most cancer thing I've seen. Zoe's E is hands down the best pick spell in the whole fucking game. It puts someones out for about 3-4 seconds from the very beginning and allows for so much follow-up time it's stupid.
: The Flaw of Autofill In A Nutshell
I wouldn't even be mad if they at least put me in my secondary role. Instead it's always support.
MysterQ (NA)
: Honestly, if monsterVarus just killed his motherand like 95% of his family. That would be loss at least enough to have real emotion.
I completely agree with what you are saying here. You make some good follow up points and I do like the ideas you put forth. At the end of the day, it's just a little sad to see this suffering the same issues and knowing that in the back, there was more ideas that could have been played with. A simple story like the original could have worked but it lacked the depth to be more powerful. The new story offers something that want's to be complex but it lacks the details to be truly complicated. It's just a sad turn of events that in Riot trying to solve a problem, they only ended up creating a new one that is almost the same.
: ***
Really Varus had a lot of open space to work with. At the end of the day, I just want Riot to push their story further and fix the main issue I think is wrong with the new lore, the lack of characterization. That is what is really holding it back in my mind. The lack of consequences is also a problem, but I do think this could work if we had strong enough characters to help carry the story and make the non-consequences feel real. Most of this is just my opinions of course and I do think both old and new had ups and downs. My problems with both may vary with person to person but I think I kind of hit the problem with both sides. The old lore side liked the simple base that was easy to connect to and had a ton of room to develop. On the other hand, the new lore side likes the more entwined narrative and the character dynamic. The problems with both is the lack of details to really fill in blank spaces. I do think this change is likely too extreme in the long run to be completely honest but I also realize that all this work isn't going to be thrown away now. So I want to offer something to solve the problem (the first one is the best fix I can think of) while I also offered otehr ideas of what could have been and been frankly just as interesting if done correctly.
: recomended runes for GP?
Grasp of the Undying is a top tier pick on GP. One of the best ways to get a good laning phase with GP. Really there isn't any Rune that super focuses on your Barrels so it's better to focus on your Q and early trading, in my opinion. Grasp chunks the hell out of people early game and because you can spam it, it gets super juicy for early trading. Klepto GP is kind of meh honestly? Comet is a possible opinion but I don't think it's very strong. You could try the Freeze one for sticking power but it's just kind of pointless on GP. I would go with Klepto or Grasp in the long run. Klepto boosts your late game by getting you there sooner while Grasp boosts your early and mid by giving you a laning phase.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Kloqdq,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=9EinEmmn,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-12-01T20:50:34.510+0000) > > But people saw them in the past so I call bullshit on the face melting. but what if, the Varus they saw in the past, was also a possessed vessel and it wasn't really Varus' "true" form? we don't have enough information to assume their true forms can even interact with the world without possessing someone :|
That's a possibility but I would say that the original Aatrox, Rhaast and Varus were all in their own original bodies. They were just trapped into their weapons and their minds and wills are all that were left.
xelaker (NA)
: 7 year... you have a poor memory my friend. they are just on the top of their power trend. have they been up there for too long? perhaps, but your hyperbole does nothing for the argument you are trying to make
Maybe not an ADC meta but they have been a powerful, relevant force that has almost always been needed since we've had standard lanes. When you have a role with so few options and mix that with such a tiny roster of options, I think it's fair to say, it's a little infuriating.
Dinopawz (NA)
: Seeing true Varus would be like looking into the Ark of the Covenant, I suspect.... :-) https://media.giphy.com/media/L4caiF7GTkgJa/giphy.gif
But people saw them in the past so I call bullshit on the face melting.
: I wish there was an undecided option. On one hand I really feel for the people who loved old Varus for who he was. They lost a dear friend today (or for some girls a husbando). I saw roleplay blogs shut down. On the other this has so much flesh, lore, nuance... really well done. All the connections from the rest of the world adding to the flavor, it feels exquisite. And that's not to mention how well it's told with their characters shattering and with the different types of media intertwined. I definitely do not feel for the people crying about the SJW boogeyman or crying against gay people. Wish I could see the vote without voting.
My biggest issue with the old and new lore is they both has a clear issue that I really wish they could fix. I need to care about the characters. Right now in both old and new, there is not much reason to care other than, something tragic happened so you should feel bad. I need a connection to these people to these characters, to get attached to them. If Varus can't care to know which is Val and which is Kai, why should I? Why should I care about Varus's family when I don't know 1 thing about them? There is more little issues like this that carry in both stories. The biggest plus to the new story is the connections to the lore overall but both are suffering from similar issues that Riot suffers from a lot. There just isn't enough content to develop everything.
: I think you hit one of the big issues. Riot tried to make Valmar and Kai important, but they didn't give them any depth. They are hunters who love each and that is as deep as they get. For now they'll just be Varus's conscience and be voices that we get mixed up.
It's a problem I think a lot of writers and Riot for sure has when creating stories. There is a lack of depth and investment in the characters that are lost along the way. A good example of how simple it can be to do this right is in John Wick. In John Wick, when, **spoilers I guess**, the dog is killed. We as an audience are one part sad that the dog is dead because it is a cute dog, but we also are connected to the dog via John. To John, that dog is more like a connection to the last person he truly cared about and losing it makes his fail back to what he left for his wife just more sad. That dog is not just a tragic death because it's a death but because it's a part of John's own will to live, his own happiness, being crushed. For Varus, Valmar and Kai are characters we are framed to care about, but we were not given enough emotional weight to care about either. Really both are dying, but there just isn't enough there to make the threat of death feel real nor dire. This same concept falls into Old Varus as well where the death of Varus's family and village is just a tragic event and what happened to him was tragic. However, I wasn't given that deep level of connection to really feel for these characters. When someone dies you'll feel bad about it likely. But when someone close to you dies, you may just cry. That's how we should feel when the story is framing us, the audience, in the shoe of the main perspective character. I should feel bad for these characters but I don't have the connection to care. There was nothing established. Maybe if we got a colour story for Valmar and Kai, to get attached to them, than get the Varus lore, than I honestly believe it would have been a fantastic reveal. However, because of the framing it was given, it fell really flat, and lacks the punch it need to work. I want to like this story more than I do but I just struggle to find it with what we were given.
: W has moments to be super powerful if you get like a double redemption in a teamfight. but e is kinda meh as a pick spell and the only thing going for it is the long range through walls. but literally unless the next spell kills the target or is cc it breaks the sleep and the target flashes out.
That's true. I just find Q and R too unreliable (Q is pretty meh as it's her main damage besides Passive) and her R just can get her killed 90% of the time. So that leaves W and E. I think in pro play, E is going to be what makes her strong. Otherwise, I don't see anything coming out of her kit. It's annoying, sure, but I wouldn't say in any game I've seen a Zoe, the Zoe was the force that won or even really helped win the game. Not when you compare it too someone like Malz.
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Kloqdq

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