Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 25
I can think of a few personalities that are missing, but what really stands out to me is that every champion is super confident. We don't really have a terribly 'undeveloped' character that could show progression yet. Even Taliyah has confidence in every line despite her just learning.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 23
Hey, I just have a concern I would like to share. Talon is my main, and I have been noticing some things with the mastery and item changes over time. Though Talon has been shining due to his new rework giving him roaming dominance as well as early damage, his mid and post game became worse, and it hasn't really been feeling better. With the nerf to Lethality masteries, runes, and the damage reduction on Black Cleaver, Talon has been starting to lose damage where its getting close to the line of being able to kill in most situations. Normally Talon has enough damage to kill mid to late, but I have started to experience ADCs building increasingly high defense from GA, Ninja Tabi, and Phantom Dancer. Some ADCs even build Death's Dance. Even Doran's Shield refreshes on Talon's passive. I feel like it has become impossible to solo kill some ADCs due to these high defensive builds that don't detract much offensive capabilities. With these new changes, Talon loses his best tool against these kinds of builds and the MS and AD reduction of Ghostblade will hurt him even more. I don't think Talon is particularly weak, especially due to the roam factor and early leads, but eventually, he will suffer a death by a thousand cuts (ironic) if these types of changes keep going out of his favor.
: > Do you plan on changing his lore and character? Pretty much all of his lore is not tied to the League, but I can see if you wanted to change a few points. Personally, I am a fan of how he realizes the importance of the bond he made with House Du'Couteau when the summoner in his judgement points out how his chase of Du'Couteau goes against his values he made on the street. Hey man, if you really like his Lore would you like me to share with you my short story with Talon? Called, "The Search for General Du Couteau." I feel the same way as you. You'd probably like it. There's also an audio book for it (robot voice though).
I am not too into fanfics, but I will check it out on the subreddit.
Meep Man (NA)
: You ever played Assassin's Creed where you can climb up walls and jump around on rooftops? Well, if I am reading this right, replace rooftops with impassable terrain/walls in LoL.
Sounds like he will have the ability to dash over terrain and reset it.
: > [{quoted}](name=ryoh,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EjFNREfn,comment-id=007c,timestamp=2016-08-05T20:04:41.556+0000) > > I posted two comments before in the thread, and I had some time to think about the proposed direction, specifically as Talon's roaming identity. > How would this affect Talon's already weak lane? My playstyle is to farm up as much as I can and 1v1 the enemy laner nearing mid game. Would this update weaken this and force me to be more mobile around the map? We're adding some counterplay to Talon's kit throughout, which means since it'll be a little harder to land everything perfectly, the payoff is going to have to be proportionately higher. So when he plays things right, post-update Talon should definitely be able to land kills in lane. He won't be as reliably able to kill his lane opponent as the more 1-on-1 focused assassins like Zed, but he'll be able to do it.
Hi, like Ryohh, I actually asked a few questions beforehand, but I was curious and wanted to follow up on this. Forgive me if I am asking too much, but I was wondering about how the flow of laning will go. I understand the lack of counterplay is being compensated for in the kit, but in terms of lane pressure, does Talon lose the presence his E gave him? As for what I think about Cutthroat, it gives him the edge that he gains in exchange for his poor mobility options. In most cases, if the jungler takes a poor gank route on an over extended Talon, he can E back. Also, the E gives him a way to attack mobile assassins without them moving before he can attack or just simply moving back then blowing him up. It also let's him juke over skillshots. Basically, Talon's E allowed him to fight back the assassins with more tools through pure instantaneous threat. How will Talon's laning play out in terms of trying to be aggressive? Will it be more poke and chip centralized or will he be more based around superior maneuvering. This is assuming his burst is now off the table and is now more on par (or worse) than LeBlanc's speed.
Reav3 (NA)
: He will be situationally one of the most mobile champs in the game
This makes me very, very pleased. He is losing a lot of the thrill of the AoE boom he had. I became very disheartened to be truthful after hearing the loss of the AoE and blink is a thing, but this... this is good to hear.
: Why is this getting downvoted? In my eyes that _is_ Talon's current identity, in the same vein as Rengar.
I think it is because Talon is one of the more fair assassins, having no escape (his ult is needed for damage unless you are fed) and he can't build tank. Plus his mobility is a lot lower, compared to LeBlanc who can do the same thing with two abilities and also blink away at the same time.
Statikk (NA)
: 1. Unfortunately we currently don't have any plans to significantly adjust his lore. 2. Boots of Mobility is probably something we can follow up with the Systems / Live teams. I personally love the feel of it on Talon as it makes him unique, but we don't really want to force Talon to have to buy it. 5. We've been pretty cognizant to keep Talon fairly low intensity when it comes to complexity of inputs. He will definitely not feel like playing Zed. 6. None of his gameplay mechanics reflect the ability to perform when outnumbered or when being hunted. We didn't feel like that was necessarily a significant part of the player fantasy that Talon brings to the table.
Oh I was hoping point one would remain static, I love his current character, so that is good news. Its unfortunate to hear he losing the AoE though. It is getting more difficult to picture what he will be since 'surgeon with blades' sounds like so many existing game mechanics. I guess that means he will just be more unique, so that's great. Thanks for the speedy response, Statikk!
Statikk (NA)
: Can you give us some insight into what you consider to be Talon's current identity?
Not him, but I'm going stick my nose in here... I think his current identity lore-wise is the anti-assassin assassin who can take on multiple opponents at once. Gameplay-wise, it is the fast and sticky, AoE assassin. I think his kit definitely shows how sticky he is, with the bleed working away at the opponent even after Talon finishes and the slows keeping enemies in place (even more so when it was a silence.) Either way, I do have confidence in your ability to rework champions so I am not too concerned as long as his feel remains similar and he stays true to his story. With the track records of reworks, I think Talon's current state will be better than it is now.
: Assassin Roster Update -- Talon Direction
Hello again! Thanks for keeping us updated, even with individual champions. I play Talon very frequently, and he has been my most played champion across 3 seasons. I have a load of confidence when it comes to the reworks. My favorites so far are Poppy and Fiora. Now that you guys have settled more in on a direction for Talon, I have a few concerns and questions, if you don't mind expanding upon. 1. Do you plan on changing his lore and character? Pretty much all of his lore is not tied to the League, but I can see if you wanted to change a few points. Personally, I am a fan of how he realizes the importance of the bond he made with House Du'Couteau when the summoner in his judgement points out how his chase of Du'Couteau goes against his values he made on the street. 2. Concerning his tendency to roam, I think Talon is indeed a roamer, but I would say Swifties are now more popular among dedicated players than Mobis due to the prevalence of Rylai's and the fact that Mobis are easily canceled by minor things like a caster minion. Do you plan on making similar changes to Mobis as you did with Strut? Also, I believe part of the reason Talon has become more of a roamer was due to the silence change 2 years back, which stunted his duelist ability. Is the team planning to maintain his identity as one of the fastest snowballers? 3. Extending his burst window is a great change I think. Talon as being an instakill was definitely a perk, but it also meant that if you did not have the numbers to kill someone, you just were not able to without having your allies set you up or dropping a few Rakes. It made gameplay rather linear. 4. The removal of a lot of his AoE is understandable, but I personally think a lot of his AoE gave a certain thrill to the character. Some of the most thrill inducing plays are casting Cutthroat to a minion and then blowing up 3 people standing in the wrong place. It's not something you can do often, but it feels amazing. 5. Difficulty seems to increase with reworks, with the exceptions of Poppy and Ryze who maintain their levels of difficulty. I am not opposed to difficulty, as my second favorite character is probably Ekko, but I feel Talon is a champion not so much about mechanical decision making, as he is about macroplay. The identity of surgeon with blades is sounds like a fine concept, but it worries me that he might be going in a direction that turns him into a stealth version of Zed. 6. Do you plan on making his character design of being able to take on many opponents at once part of his gameplay? Or perhaps move him in an anti-assassin assassin direction, due to his ability to respond with being jumped by Noxian guilds so easily? Most Talon mains I know are in favor of a rework, but as a load of us play the champion frequently, some even near exclusively, it is a bit worrying to see the fact that there will be change. Even so, the team on reworks hasn't really had a big flop yet, so I don't think there will be an issue. Plus Talon's current identity gameplay wise is a bit of a mess, so that gives you guys freedom of direction, so things can go anywhere. Thanks for reading!
Reav3 (NA)
: Don't worry, we think speed is pretty core to Kat's theme as well. If we do work on Kat we wouldn't want to turn her into another Zed, the goal of roster is to further differentiate the Assassins, not make them more similar
Speaking for differentiation, I think Katarina and Talon both share the identities of the "AoE Assassins", but I recall [a Rioter mentioning Talon has 'too much AoE.'](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/dL5aAPvy-if-the-role-of-an-assassin-is-to-kill-the-squishy-high-priority-target?comment=0021) Is that a personal opinion of theirs or a group consensus? I don't mind him losing the AoE as he is going to be different anyway, but just wondering.
Statikk (NA)
: Unfortunately this isn't the time window yet where we can really share the directions with you guys - we're still in the midst of exploring and figuring out what makes sense. To say the least, Talon shows a lot of promise. =)
That is great to here! I have confidence you guys will pick the right direction. If you want a fan opinion, I always thought Talon's ultimate perfectly fits his lore. He is all about avoiding capture and being able to take on multiple enemies at once. I think he is quite similar to Katarina in gameplay, but they are different in the way that they feel. Katarina's gameplay is more explosive and ferocious where as Talon's is more quick and careful.
Statikk (NA)
: Next Class Update - the Assassins
Thanks for the update! I have a question though. Have you guys looked into direction with specific champions? I play a load of Talon. He, along with Ekko (who really captures what you wish to achieve with the rest) and Jhin are my favorite champions. I think you guys have been doing really well with maintaining kit identity with a few exceptions, like Graves. (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) But getting to the point, if you guys have already some idea of specifics, what direction are you taking Talon in?
: ***
VIVA LA REVOLUTION! *Raises MA minute man flag while eating a philly cheesesteak, driving through NYC*
: Why not just have 2 server? There are enough players to play on two different servers.
There are not enough west coasters actually
: How are Japanese players supposed to play now????
Korean Server? Or is there some problem with that, I wouldn't know. Honestly though, I am gonna miss the occasional Japanese player in solo queue, I love that country's culture.
: > [{quoted}](name=Dabeastwithin777,realm=NA,application-id=osqw6G4M,discussion-id=q8sJLh1M,comment-id=0009000200000000,timestamp=2015-08-12T00:09:24.669+0000) > > Oh my lord...... All my friends and I play at 150 ping and half of my friends are plat,diamond..... Please stop whining and understand that when I'm at 100 ping, I'm SUPER happy cause I can control my champion, while everyone in the West coast is depressed about being bumped up to 50 ping or so.... Stop being so selfish please... Other people like to play too Cali isn't the only state with people who play league in it. You putting up with garbage for years doesn't suddenly make foisting that garbage off on the western states ok.
Imagine you are sharing a bed with someone, and all night you were hogging all the covers. Now, suddenly, your partner takes an even amount to keep themselves warm. Aren't they just the worst kind of people?
: As someone who currently gets an average of 100+ ping and lives on the west coast, this server change is going to put me up into the 140-150 ping range on average. I honestly think that having NAW and NAE servers would be the best way to deal with this issue.
NAW would have a ridiculously small population, smaller than the Turkish server. That would mean Ranked Queues would go off in the early hours and late night and no Normal Draft.
: Both EUW and EUNE servers are locate in amsterdam. The reason for 2 servers is the size of the playerbase not the geography.
Also, NAW would be ridiculously small. It would be smaller than the Turkish servers. NAE on the other hand would be pretty decently sized.
: They should do what they did with Europe and split it between East and West, because I think that the people on the East deserve the lowering of ping, but at the same time I (living on the West Coast of Cali) think that raising my already mediocre ping will be terrible.
The issue with that is that NAW would be so small that Ranked Queues would be disabled in the late hours and early morning, and there would be no Normal Draft. It would be smaller than Turkey. Most of League's populous is from NAE.
: Patch 4.17 notes
Let all us Talon mains have a moment of silence... 'Cus he won't be having them any longer... Just saying though, it was difficult if not impossible to finish his combo before the silence ended.

Knighting4le

Level 121 (NA)
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