Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 12
Meddler, Quick Question for you when (officially) does a game of league of legends start for the player and the gameplay start? I'm getting conflicting information on this from Rioters.
: I unfortunately feel I must disagree with you. While it feels bad to get into game and discover your champion is naturally bad against another champion and picking someone else would have made for an easier time, such a situation is a necessary byproduct of variety. The only way to ensure counterpicking does not exist is to ensure that all champions have the same basic set of tools with nothing unique. When unique abilities are added and variety is introduced, it is natural for some champions to be better against certain kits than others. Now, it is possible for counterpicking to become so necessary as to hurt the game, when you must play one of a very small set of champions or you lose automatically. I don't believe that is necessarily the point Akali is at right now, though, and I don't believe counterpicking is inherently unhealthy.
The reason for my post is that Counter picking has become more necessary and counterplay has been on the decline. While before counter picking gave you an advantage it did not nullify the laning phase. Previously (back when it was the forums) when people asked how to deal with champions they were given information like how build against them, how to space against them, and hop to abuse an opponents ability cooldowns correctly. At the present the "Counterplay" that is shown is always counter picks and does not provide the information that a player would actually be able to utilize if they are not the picked champion. This has become more and more the case since season 6 (maybe even earlier) wherein champions have less "windows" to deal with them outside of direct counters. While a necessary byproduct (as you say) was also true in the past Riot did decently well with having Counters be only Soft counters in 90% of cases. Exceptions being in ranged tops which they even said was a huge issue they wanted to correct, and they attempted to. At the present we are at a point wherein champions are being played for how few options you have to deal with them instead of the options they themselves bring to the table.
: counterpicking should never be a form of counterplay since you arent always gonna be picking last so when doing these kinds of post its better to post general knowledge which can be used on a majority of mid lanes champs or specific points for some champs rather than listing why some champs counter her
THANK YOU. For the love of all, thank you. Not once have I seen people (before here) that actually have the brainpower to say it. I asked for what I can do against champs in help and tips and all people say is counterpick. If I as a player cannot have a way to play around a champion with anything but select champions then there is something inherently wrong with the champions design.
: You should have put the match up. I don't have enough information to confidently say the answer, but I'd say he's probably bad. 225 CS is more than an inting player would get in any length game, he does have 2 kills and 5 assists, which also makes me think he was putting in effort, and he had a legit item build, and was even building some defensiveness (Zhonyas). I think if he was just in a bad match up he wouldn't have that much CS, same with if he was a bot. Him being just bad or having a bad game or being new to Viktor are the only viable options I see.
> [{quoted}](name=Get Ogre Here,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=1KXsG6Aq,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-09-13T18:43:35.353+0000) > > You should have put the match up. I don't have enough information to confidently say the answer, but I'd say he's probably bad. 225 CS is more than an inting player would get in any length game, he does have 2 kills and 5 assists, which also makes me think he was putting in effort, and he had a legit item build, and was even building some defensiveness (Zhonyas). I think if he was just in a bad match up he wouldn't have that much CS, same with if he was a bot. Him being just bad or having a bad game or being new to Viktor are the only viable options I see. we also don't have the game length so its hard to tell. going by him being level 17 its possible the game was at 30+ so the CS is more plausible.
: > [{quoted}](name=DotEleven,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=B8ghEGkE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-09-07T18:46:55.088+0000) > > "Before" implies they held the same seminar open to all. They didn't. I have a weekly stream open to all doing exactly this. There are plenty of opportunities to get feedback on your resume materials, or watch talks, or vods, or have a 1:1, or go to a game jam. Pax was just one event that we had hoped to engage with those who traditionally have to overcome extreme barriers to enter. I don't agree with the way it was communicated or the wording of the response, but as for the event itself 100% invested. Also, as for DZK hes a great guy, really caring, and infinitely compassionate. I'll miss him tons.
> [{quoted}](name=Bazerka,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=B8ghEGkE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-09-07T18:59:41.357+0000) > > I have a weekly stream open to all doing exactly this. There are plenty of opportunities to get feedback on your resume materials, or watch talks, or vods, or have a 1:1, or go to a game jam. Pax was just one event that we had hoped to engage with those who traditionally have to overcome extreme barriers to enter. I don't agree with the way it was communicated or the wording of the response, but as for the event itself 100% invested. > > Also, as for DZK hes a great guy, really caring, and infinitely compassionate. I'll miss him tons. It's nice that there are options to see the information outside of the event at PAX. Alas the information that it was Female/NB only was only conveyed the day before the event. (I'm just glad I didn't have the time to go to PAX this year like I had planned to or I would have wasted tons of money just to be turned away at the door.) Intentions were good and genuine but the way it was thoughtlessly put on after people had already paid money and planned to go to it is something that should have crossed even the least aware person in your group at the event. There is no excusing that fact.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kobold,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=POI9rBfY,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-09-06T15:06:28.663+0000) > > So wheres the role swapping first then I'm so glad Riot overrode the stupidity of this argument. For too long dopey forum posters, just looking to win a fight to validate their ego, have held up countless games and have lost LP on their hands because they stood against this obviously logical change. At no point in either the OP or the red post did anyone say forced. Your reading comprehension is low, like 3rd grade low. Its says "automatically get" not "force to take." I automatically get what I had last game, that doesn't mean I'm stuck with it. People can win all the fights on the boards, and get all the upvotes their cold, dead heart desires, but your arguments are still bad, you lack a reasonable amount of logic, and you have no sense for problem solving. This is an amazing change, regardless of what the perpetually aggrieved think and I for one welcome a return to just having a jungler who is clueless, not smiteless.
And I never said anything on it being forced {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} Also my post is very relevant with LANE BASED RANK next season.
Meddler (NA)
: You won't be forced to take Smite, it'll just be one of the Summoners selected when you enter champ select. If you want to change to other spells, go for it. This won't be any different than what happens when you currently have Smite selected at the start because you'd had it in your previous game.
Just want to pop in here and ask why not allow your summoners to be able to be predefined by the player by Role (possibly also champion) and then introduce role swapping? I.e. as a player out of game I can set my predefined summoners and then when I am in the lobby it will change to my predefined and also swap if I have a predefined and swap roles. This prevents issues like last second swaps causing summoner spell change failure costing players the game.
: Agreed! Especially in the next patch, that would be bonkers ;)
: i mean, going afk as a match is starting is part of the problem im sure they're trying to fix. ive been playing since beta and still to this day i've never understood the logic behind queuing for a match and then going afk till the last moment possible before you start actually playing. grab your drink beforehand, take a piss, set up your playlist, do all the stuff you need to, then que yourself up. problem solved and you aren't griefing your jungler by not leashing him because you wanted a snack
Easy fix Force a standardized load time of 2 mins
: *Descends into the depths of Rito labs *... _emerges_..._inhales_ "Soontm" Congrats on silver 1 btw and best of luck on your road to gold!
Can't wait! When will we get auto locked in TP Flash for top?
Cosnirak (NA)
: >Point and click means you cannot miss. No it doesn't. But that doesn't even matter. Yasuo's QE cannot miss. It can be dodged. You cannot miss besides miss clicking the wrong target which is true of any point and click. >What I'm saying has nothing to do with animation, but just the definition of what point and click is. Well you're wrong. >Rank 1, the cooldown is 10 seconds, but it's the ability she maxes second and lowers with CDR. No it doesn't. It's 10 seconds at all ranks. It only goes down with cdr. >Yasuo cannot reliably CC while in the jungle That depends on if there are things to hit, there often are...
just want to point out he keeps arguing about Lux Q CD but his entire post was saying that people don't play champs then judge them but he is doing even worse by not fact checking his statement.
: and then reality crumbles as the servers fry just like they did on Draven Day, the april fools event
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 27
In regards to point 3 >We'll be looking to reduce the organized team versus random team difference in effectiveness some tanks show. Not certain yet on timing of that. What possible thoughts are being thrown around regarding Shen?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 11
Meddler what are your thoughts on the Over abundance of CDR and Ease of Capping CDR compared to the past?
: But why is one an auto attack enhancer instead of an ability that applies on hit effects and can crit, while the other is an ability that can apply on hit effects and can crit but its not an auto attack enhancer. The output of both is exactly the same, they both do extra damage, apply on hit effects, can crit, and extend range. Why are they coded differently when they have the exact same effects in all other regards?
Examples of auto attack enhancers are things like Fiora E, Nasus Q, Wu Q. they all are non targeted abilities that grant a buff on next attack. Typically also act as auto attack resets. QP's Q is a targeted ability that is supposed to act like an auto attack at range. (think Ryze W if it could crit)
Skynix (NA)
: So Yasuo q better not proc it, because it proc on hit and is not a basic attack. If it does, remove it or add Gangplank on the list.
Tested every ability i could think of for the interaction and only Yasuo is allowed to utilize it with his Q Only he and GP can crit with their Abilities that act like an AA Yasuo's Q is (in the tool tip) listed as a basic attack (tho it seems to ignore his AA lockout if it truly was one) This muddies the waters of clarity and should act the same as GP's Parrrley @Riot Endstep
: What differentiates GP q from a basic attack modifier like wokong q then? Both take up an auto attack animation frame, both can apply on hit effects, both can crit, both extend the range of a normal auto attack.... This is actually quite inconsistent with a heavy burden of knowledge.
wu's Q is an auto attack enhancer (is not an ability as it can be primed for next auto attack) and is not point click ability
: It's never been classified as a basic attack - applying on-hits and being able to crit are separate classifications from being a basic attack. Anything that applies on-hit effects draws creep aggro (Ezreal Q is another one, for example), which is why GP Q has always pulled it. I'm in agreement that the classification here is pretty fine/arcane and doesn't feel correct at all points, but this is the most consistent application according to the rules.
You need to update the tool tips for items then as some items state "Basic attacks deal X" but are actually on hit affects.
: I've talked with the designer of Stormrazor about this a few times - it's not considered a bug. Essentially, GP Q just applies on-hits and can crit (it's not considered a basic attack), which is why Stormrazor doesn't make it crit, as Stormrazor specifically makes your next basic attack crit. We've discussed changing things around but at as of right now this is working as intended.
?! When was it changed to not count as a basic attack? Even after his Rework it counted as a Basic attack for all other interactions even Agro?
: The game needs a lot of things. Better exploration around shielding, the champions that utilize shields, and the items that empower shields could get us a lot of gains. We unfortunately didn't come to a good solution that was of appropriate scope to get into the game before midseason, at which point it didn't make sense to try to also squeeze that into midseason efforts. I understand why that explanation will be unpopular. I also would have preferred we came to a proper solution.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ApEIEAg9,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2018-04-25T19:08:49.606+0000) >** I understand why that explanation will be unpopular. I also would have preferred we came to a proper solution.** Just want to point out the wording you have here makes it sound like instead of continuing to look at the issue it is dropped until a much much later date if to be revisited at all.
: > Nope, not trolling, you guys legit have this problem. Sorry, I honestly thought this was a troll post, because of some of the things that were said. > My point exactly, and when the most vocal part of the boards is screaming "STOP BANNING US!" it's a clear indication of a serious problem. You are on a small, purpose built forum, where people are supposed to talk about their penalties. People who are penalized, generally don't want to have a penalty. We perma-ban people when they reach a point that they are not going to change their behavior. These are the people that fail to understand their behavior is unacceptable after numerous penalties. > The last couple season though they instituted autobanning and now people get banned left and right, that's a real issue, it makes the game lackluster. I fail to understand how banning people makes a game lackluster. > Here's what's actually happening "all of the toxic people are finding partners and clans and then group reporting people that they troll all game and getting them autobanned since bots don't distinguish whats actual toxicity and what's just a group of dicks reporting because they're in a clan". 'Ganging up on' someone via reports doesn't do anything. 1 report is the same as 9. More reports does not increase the chance of a game being reviewed. All it takes is a single report. > I'm literally saying that toxicity is part of any competitive gaming, always has been, always will be. I am literally saying this is not true. A small group of people may have been unsportsmanlike, but the majority are fed up with this behavior. It will not be tolerated. If that's your idea of fun then we don't want you here. Go play another game. Good luck finding another game studio that doesn't feel the same way. > It's very simple, this game has a giant player base, unfortunately since even farting in someones general direction gets your account suspended and then banned these days... The vast majority of player never receive any type of penalty. Of those that do, they only receive one. Of those that got one, most never receive another .. and so it goes. If you are getting penalized, you are in a very very very small group. If you are getting penalized over and over .. you are the 'unsportsmanlike elite'. > there is literally 0 reason to invest a dime in any skins in this game. I agree. This game is free to play. You don't need to invest a dime. If you want to though, feel free. I have a few skins I love. > Now of course you can be none toxic and good for you if you are, however a majority of the people are people, people react to other people acting like dicks No. The majority do not. Not even a minority. A very very small minority. The perception problem is that there are 10 players in each game. So one unsportsmanlike player ruins the game for 9 other people. Add negativity bias to this and it compounds. > So riot has literally killed their own game with their own autoban system. Actually, unsportsmanlike people kill the game. By removing them from the game it becomes more enjoyable, which increases player retention.
While I wholeheartedly agree with you and disagree with the OP, I do have to say that the game does seem less enjoyable than years before. Would be nice to see a graph of the player responses to the surveys in game and via email regarding enjoyment level of the game over the last 3 years.
Medio (NA)
: Why don't they just do an SSN ban? That should bring them shame enough to behave once enough of them are gone.
I don't think i'm fully correct but That may have implications on other things as well for them. As from what I remember of the KSSN system is they are used for pretty much everything and a very detailed record is kept of any action taken towards the person. So potentially it could cause issues for the individual with future job prospects, which could then be a lawsuit issue in KR towards Riot.
: > [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2G0cA5WY,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2018-03-27T21:58:24.664+0000) > > I'm aware of the perception. What do you think are the things in the game that are resulting in this? My first guess would be that solo-carrying a game feels harder than it used to. Personally I'd say this is a good thing, as it leads to less situations where you feel powerless against a single individual on the enemy team, but I can see it leading to intense frustration. Another part is likely the extent to which CC/initiation/damage can end up divided between roles. A team that loses a carry early or loses an initiator early can find itself unable to make up the difference, which can result in a team with one player doing poorly feeling like it's missing out on a large portion of their damage/utility and unable to make up that differential elsewhere. Ultimately I think that's something that's intrinsically part of *League* though -- in a 5-player-per-team asymmetrical game you need some of that distinction to keep every role from feeling the same, and that means that having a player not performing well will always lead to you feeling like you're missing something crucial from your team composition unless you've intentionally built redundancy in. The problem, of course, is that "every role can carry" doesn't really get us into a great game state, and "every player is expendable" doesn't either. It's possible that having more fall-back options for characters who are behind might help, but that has other issues -- not the least of which is that those options CAN'T be as good as the "I'm doing well" options, which means that a lot of players will avoid them even when they're the right choice.
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2G0cA5WY,comment-id=001c0002,timestamp=2018-03-27T22:10:31.673+0000) > > Another part is likely the extent to which CC/initiation/damage can end up divided between roles. A team that loses a carry early or loses an initiator early can find itself unable to make up the difference, which can result in a team with one player doing poorly feeling like it's missing out on a large portion of their damage/utility and unable to make up that differential elsewhere. I think this sums up most of my feelings for it at the moment and possibly others. There are more ways for "Passive" champions who are useful to a Team being slightly behind or even than ever before. I believe this is both due to changes made to champions as well as items and gameplay effects. Before the game had more points(not sure of a good word for this description) where a "carry" champion could still be "online". If we were to look at the as a boxplot graph with each champion being represented as a box on the graph and the side of the graph as a value of lead to defict as a measuring statistic. Carry style champions (I want to say bar ADC but not always) now seem to have a smaller area (more skewed towards having a larger lead) that they can be considered useful to the team, where as more utility style champions are getting larger or no difference in size to the lead\deficit are than before.
: What do we mean when we say the boards/reddit are a minority?
A few Questions on the data provided. 1. Is the data you provided based on Games (that were played) that have a player that queued for that role, A targeted survey, the number of players that are listed as mains for a specific role due to most played champions, API determined lanes (remember during team builder there were games where duo top was listed while having a jung due to pressure), or total number of Queues for a role (including dodges/failures to accept) 2. Why not also show unique player count for each role? (this depends on the above) 3. Why was Vietnam listed (and such an Outlier) and not all the regions separately as well?
Meddler (NA)
: It's possible this hits her too hard. I feel a good potential parallel here is Camille. We nerfed her in small ways repeatedly early last year, which didn't solve her problems. After we finally hit her fairly hard we got a much better understanding of how she should/shouldn't be powerful while she was a bit weak. That let us then put some power back into her in appropriate ways and she's an effective pick without being the balance challenge she was on release at this point.
Guess this flew over the balance teams head but a frustration with her that i see commented repeatedly is that she has no actual need of a combo. Her entire Combo (and also her harass/trading pattern) is QRQ or QQR. while other champions need to do more to actually have their combo do the same damage. Optimally her combo should be a combination of (if we ignore W spells and items) the Q,R,E, and either one or two autos due to her passive. This is not the case on live, Solo or competitive. She has no real reason to even have her passive to be honest, all it was in the past was a damage buff for Q. These changes may push her to slightly more towards needing to auto but instead may just push her into the same point old Nidalee was where its either oneshot or force them to back, as she may have no passive boasted Q but still enough damage on it to do the same as old nid. Her trading downtime (.25s increase lol) is also problematic as there is very little time to punish someone when they are so far away and have low CDs, most champions bar Zed using everything just to close lane distance cannot reach her in the entire CD of her harass/trade ability.
: I agree with this to some degree, but also feel that Urgot as a ranged Juggernaut breaks a lot of rules in the game. In my opinion, the item system in League can't be held hostage to rulebreakers or it will fail to properly serve the majority of champions - it's better to fix itemization for the majority of the cast and deal with outliers than to allow outliers to dictate game-warping itemization. If Urgot needs help because his itemization is bad that's a separate problem from Mallet and we should treat it as such. Generally though I agree with you, I don't think Urgot's itemization options are very good.
has there been any discussion on making 3 ranged types? aka above 500 max attack range items/ champion is considered long range champions Between 200 and 500 they are considered Mid range and below 200/250 are considered melee. These distinctions would allow items tailored for specific champions to function.
: Why not disable Stopwatch+ULT combo but keep Zonyas+ULT combo, I don't even play Ryze but I think it's sad to see changes like that. It somewhat reminds me about the latest change to Ornn's W... Personally I'm not a fan :)
If I understand it correctly they coded it as Stasis (an effect) and would in that case need to add an additional effect to the stopwatch that was called stasis 2 which does not allow use with his ult. however adding an additional effect may cause issues with other parts of the code or unforseen interactions (despite being nearly identical in effect) as it is an entire new series of code added to every champion in a game as a possible effect. EDIT: the real question is if the bard ult interaction still works as I have seen nothing on that.
: Hi hi! As a quick note, there are a few ways to miss out on this season’s rewards: * Players with bans or chat restrictions active when the season ends are ineligible for this year’s rewards. * Players issued a ban of seven days or more from 8/22/2017 are ineligible for this year’s rewards. Bans that started before 8/22/2017 will not disqualify a player, even if the ban period extended past that date. * Players banned for boosting during the 2017 season remain ineligible for rewards. That may be a reason that they weren't granted, but if you were a good noodle and don't fall into those categories, please [shoot us a ticket](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/requests/new). Our player support team will be able to take a look at your account and see what the deal is. :)
how can one be a good noodle if we are not part of Rito's spaghetti?
: I agree on the whole. I think the fact that these boards are are our official platform means a lot of players come here with a bone to pick with Riot, rather than a place for discussion, which drives away a lot of people who aren't interested in hostility as a default tone. And I think you're right that Riot shares a lot of the blame for creating that environment too. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy that's tough to break out of. > And if this post is read by a Rioter, my plea to Riot is: please respond more to the controversial questions. The boards are the official website made by Riot to DISCUSS gameplay; we should be able to have discussions on adc strength, game pacing, CertainlyT champion pool, and so on, as long as we keep discussion civil, constructive, and within the boards. Not sure if I'm in the minority on this, but I don't feel we shy away from controversial topics. However, I do think often we answer those questions on places outside the boards, partly to spend more time working on a better answer, and partly to reach more players. So I think it's more likely that you'll see an answer to bigger questions on places like Meddler's Gameplay Thoughts, on Ask Riot, or on one of our /dev diaries rather than in response to an angry thread on gameplay.
That's kind of an issue in itself is it not? Where we as players do not have a way to see what may have been posted somewhere else to know if the question was answered unless the answer is reposted where we look. Wasn't that the purpose of moving from the forum to the boards? The red tracker helps for in the boards and the red tracker extension for browsers helps on reddit but there are other places answers are given that some players may never see. A decent chunk of the posts could be removed from the boards just by having the answers more available to the playerbase. That alone may reduce the hostility of the boards. Regarding controversial topics I do think Riot does answer them or at least look at them but the responses given too them are either too late or too far past the point where the topic has turned hostile, or the other reason is the topic is brought up internally and then forgotten by the team to answer it due to taking too long to find an answer.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 19
In your Counterplay section you mention "taking advantage of long enemy CDs" This has not been the case for champion designs since 2015 and has been circumvented via CDR itemization changes back in what 2014? What do you and your team classify as long CDs? 4 seconds? Its been a problem with league for a while now and no one wants to talk about it. CDR is one of the most freely given stats in items now where before it was a very niche stat that you had to give up something else for.
Fearless (NA)
: There are a lot of us that read the boards that don't post very often. The biggest problem is that so much of the boards are negative that I don't find points to jump in. If I look at boards and see a bunch of points I can't touch, I tend to go over to Tumblr/Twitter and answer questions over there. I love talking with players, but it's a lot more productive when I can find discussions that are less hyperbolic and more earnest.
I'm a little concerned here by your wording. I am assuming I am reading into this wrong (but it may be true for some). But are you saying that you and others (you may not know if that's true) read some of the boards but when a discussion of frustration is brought up (almost always negative threads) that you then avoid reading it? I am hoping that's not true as frustration with champions and feedback on whats frustrating the playerbase was what was wanted for feedback just a few seasons ago. As has been pointed out positive topics are not usually meant for feedback regarding what is posted in the gameplay section (the issue that many have with lack of responses and acknowledgement/reasoning for feedback there). I feel we are at another ball and gravity generator point in leagues lifespan. When Riot decides to apply more proactive approach to the community they will increase the gravity but applying too much (lots of communication but not on discussions on feedback/unstructured communication) or too late (after change is permanent) will cause the ball (satisfaction with the game) to not be as high or the lack of applying a change will cause the ball to lose height slowly but steadily or rapidly based on the surface (opposing games) in which it hits (is compared too).
: This is literally verbatim from the post where the designer announced the changes. > Unfortunately, having an active as the quest reward requires us to remove the active branches of the item chains - Frost Queen’s Claim, Face of the Mountain, and Talisman of Ascension. Some of the actives provided important options, and so we’ll be looking at ways to bring Frost Queen’s Claim and Talisman of Ascension back in modified forms. Face of the Mountain’s active will likely not return in the immediate future. If you want to take the time to read it it's here. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/xeAEIL6M-changes-to-sightstonesupport-items-coming-to-pbe
> [{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yNKRYiqi,comment-id=000a001d0000,timestamp=2018-01-12T22:35:38.019+0000) > > This wording here >Some of the actives provided important options, and so we’ll be **looking at** ways to bring The bolded text is why people are reacting the way they are. Remember not all of us are new players as of a short while ago. There are still long time players who visit and comment on the boards so we remember when you have said **looking at** and nothing came of it.
: Yeh... the timing of 8.1 was a bit confusing and probably set expectations a bit too high for players. Meddler tried to address it in his quick gameplay thoughts - but that particular section didn't get much visibility. The 8.1 patch actually "locked" before Christmas, and was worked on at the same time as 7.24b. We usually would have put more time into the 8.1 patch, but were focused instead on getting some short term wins for top lane and a few other notable areas around the map into 7.24b. To clarify - 7.24b wasn't meant to "solve" top lane, or the rest of the game for that matter, but it felt like there was enough low hanging fruit that getting an additional patch out before Christmas was the right way to go, rather than have a 5 week break between 7.24 and 8.1 At any rate, what this meant for 8.1 was that there was less content than usual, while players were probably looking to it to start hitting on some of the problems that they were feeling - which unfortunately wasn't the case. We have a pretty substantial number of changes going into 8.2 (some have started to hit the PBE), some are still in exploration like a number of new runes/tweaks to current ones. To provide a super high level summary of what our direction for League is - since what you're asking is a super deep question, is to get the game to a point where you feel like you're constantly presented with the opportunity to make nuanced decisions that can help you win a game of League. Whether that's what champion you take, what runes you go with, what items you buy, how you rotate around the map etc etc. It was a large part of why we redid runes and masteries as a system in the first place, the old system provided important decisions, but they weren't particularly meaningful, and very rarely did they ever change (I'm not talking about switching between taking scaling hp vs armor yellows). We have a long way to go yet for runes to be as flexible as we want, but we have a lot of internal focus on adjusting current runes and creating new ones to get it there over the long run. In regards to more in game positions we're also doing some deeper vision/direction setting for where we want to take every position going into the new year and beyond. We're also looking at things like broadening the number of positions a champion can be considered in that are also sustainable to help feed into the idea of being faced with nuanced decision making. Morgana and Zyra could be looked at as the first real foray into this space. While we didn't quite nail it yet, we wanted players to be able to think about taking them in the jungle if they wanted to for a variety of reasons. I would argue that one of the things (and please let me stress the ONE in that statement) that may feed into your perception of the game feeling less tactical, is the fact that the relative skill level of players and their mastery over League seems to be accelerating. When you look at how teams tend to play around the bot side of the map and look to gain a lead from diving a turret with a jungler, or having mid roam down and flank for a 4v2 which then turns into an objective/s. In prior years, if bot turret went down, you'd typically see the adc and support back, buy items, and then head right back down their lane. These days, players have caught onto the idea of rotating that power around the map, moving their top laner to bot, and then taking the top turret further accelerating their lead (this is just one example). As more and more players learn what optimal strategy/tactics they should employ in a game when they want to win, games can feel less tactical/strategic as they become more par for the course. This is a huge reason why we update the game every two weeks, since if left untouched, the game would become more and more about optimizing one or two strategies that are proven to work which would then very quickly become stale. In regards to the comment about fast paced games, I don't have too much for you atm, but we're doing a lot of investigation into general game pacing, game length, bloodiness etc, to find areas where we can tune back some of the more egregious experiences, but I will definitively say that we're not looking at making the average game 45 minutes (right now average game length is 30.5 minutes +/- ~2 minutes based on mmr range and region). The primary things we need to make sure to maintain are the rough lengths of various phases of the game - aka lane phase shouldn't be over at something silly like 4 minutes, you shouldn't be able to close out the game at 15 minutes on one team fight etc. That got more wordy than I intended - please keep in mind this is my personal attempt at summarizing thoughts from a variety of teams though I hope it provides a bit more insight/context. Edit: Oh, and about the Heimer nerf - ask any melee top laner or jungler who's tried to gank a Heimer and you'll probably find their opinion quite different regarding the nerf.
> [{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qVAaT1n4,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-01-12T19:30:57.732+0000) > > To provide a super high level summary of what our direction for League is - since what you're asking is a super deep question, is to get the game to a point where you feel like you're constantly presented with the opportunity to make nuanced decisions that can help you win a game of League. Whether that's what champion you take, what runes you go with, what items you buy, how you rotate around the map etc etc. Going to ask you a question on this. What percentage should each of these theoretically be for Riots vision of league? Correct me if I am wrong but the factors should be (in no particular order): 1. Champion selected vs opposing laner 2. Your Champion Synergy with Team comp vs Enemy Laner champion synergy with their team comp 3. Item purchases vs lane 4. Item purchases vs enemy Comp 5. Vision Control vs lane 6. Vision control vs Enemy Team (warding not just your lane) 7. Mechanical play vs Lane 8. Mechanical play in teamfights 9. Decision making (Objectives vs kills) 10. Decision Making (Split Push vs Group) 11. Decision making (Map Pressure) 12. Runes setup 13. Summoners Selection 14. Team comp style vs enemy team comp (i.e. Early vs late game or poke vs engage comp) There may be some others that I cannot think of at the moment. The issue we see right now is #1 is influencing the game much more than it should with the changes to the runes system where some champions weaknesses are overcome or their strengths enhanced to a level of frustration. Previously Riot had said they want the game to feel like there are no hard counters but as of season 6 (I believe) this has not been the case, add to this Rioters have said generalists are bad for variety and niche picks but recent champion designs are very generalist in nature giving them a bit of everything.
: Hiya, I'm the Visual Effects Artist responsible for Lunar Revel Nasus and Valentines Rakan, so i'm super excited that two skins I have been working on really hard are being shown at once! I'm really glad you like Nasus, I've worked really hard to make his VFX feel powerful and godly, particularly when he uses his Ult to ascend to his ultimate Godly form. This year is the year of the Dog, and as such we chose League's two doggo champions for the Lunar Revel celebrations. We were loosely referencing Door Guardians, or "gate gods" who are figures from Chinese folklore who guard your doors from Evil spirits and bad influences, and are related to Lunar New Year. This is why in their recalls Nasus and Warwick summon doors carved with their images, and lock and protect them. We imagined that the door was the entry into a celestial realm, and they guard it from the Lunar Wraiths (caitlyn and morgana from previous years). We envisaged Lux as the godly empress of this realm, and also as the person who raised Nasus and Warwick from pups into the titans they are today. In her recall you can see she summons tiny puppy versions of Warwick and Nasus, and trains them to sit. You can also get these puppers individually as the Lunar Revel wards. Warwick and Nasus have very different personalities - Nasus is a stoic titan, Warwick a vicious beast. We were exploring what it meant to be a Good Dog and a Bad Dog - they might have very different attitudes when it comes to guarding the realm, but they both have unwavering loyalty to Lux. If anyone would like further context on why we chose Lux, please refer to KateyKhaos' post here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/pcX0wKmd-skin-schedule-is-honestly-so-fucked?comment=0019 I'm sorry if some Aurelion Sol players who got excited are a little disappointed, but this was year of the Dog, not of the Dragon. To them I'd just like to say that we try to get to champs who have been a long time without skins when it makes sense - I personally have worked on Yorick, Viktor and Illaoi in just the past few months. Please be patient, and we will get to your favourite dragon when we have a chance and with a theme that really makes him awesome :)
Here's a Question How long ago (Actual day/week in 2017) was Lux Chosen?
: Our intent with this, or any promo, is never to bait someone into thinking something exists that doesn't. For the Lunar Revel promo piece, the gate center piece was a dog, and the creatures to the left and right were Nasus and Warwick, respectively. The rainbow light in the middle was meant to symbolize Lux's laser. The style may not have made that super clear, or perhaps some were searching for something that wasn't there? That's hard to say, but we weren't purposefully trying to blur the lines between several champions and have everyone play a guessing game and hope for the best, if that makes sense. I think the teaser for Eternal Sword Yi was a feelsbadman moment for us all around in 2017. ;-; We...learned a lot from that one, to be totally honest with you, and it's sparked several conversations around what makes for a fun//clear/solid promo piece. I (we) understand where you're coming from, and even the meanest, angriest comments are read with passion in mind. Some have more experience wording things than others, and even someone like myself, who is used to giving feedback, can lose myself in the moment when I'm super excited/angry/upset about something. It's human nature, but we default to the idea that feedback is coming from the heart and from someone who cares a heck of a lot about a champion.
This loops back into multiple things on promos and skins honestly. Some people are upset Lux once again is getting another skin while Asol (yes dragon so we have to wait until what 2024 to get a skin for him on this line) but the fact he has gotten none in such a long time and was semi hyped seems to be where some are starting to get upset. While in the past you and others in the art department have said doing skins is based on finding a neat idea and concept for a champion that feels right is the reason skins are made so often for the same champions, this has shown to be more biased or weighted now than ever. Not to be too rude but it seems the lack of ideas for skins on champions who have few is a problem the art team needs to actually look at, and start having more discussions with the playerbase on skins than doing every concept inhouse.
: That's possibly the most sense a Kobold has ever made in history.
: he has less damage than a lot of mages though. And zoe having damage sources from 4 points just sounds like you're grasping for reasons to call her out. So what, Jhin is busted as hell because he has 4 sources of damage from his Q alone? 12 if we count his E passive+active? Also you don't pick zilsta midsta for his damage output though, it's more about having the ability to send literally anyone on your team to full health after they die.
uh thats not why I pointed it out. Lots of players are saying zoe only has one damaging ability. Which is entirely incorrect thats what we were pointing out. Zilean IS the only Champion with only one damaging ability. When people are saying that Zoe is allowed so much damage and what some deem unfun mechanics due to "she only has one damaging ability" it is factually incorrect.
: {{champion:26}}: Had all of his damage in one ability before it was cool
AND Still has less damage than her while being the only TRUE champion to have a single damage ability while she has potentially 4 due to passive and potentially up to 3 if we ignore passive
: > [{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Otbcp5TK,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2017-12-10T23:06:26.193+0000) > > No we are not buffing Yasuo because he's popular/has a large player base. We are buffing him because he has the highest average games played per player out of EVERY champion in League, and even with the largest number of players who HAVE mastered him, he's struggling to win the "promised" number of games based on what you would expect from a mastery curve (this is just one of the reasons). Long story short - we're buffing him because he is NOT a balanced champion currently, and it's our job to react to champions like him accordingly. Can you share any internal data on whether Yasuo's win rate differs significantly based on the team comps he's a part of? I feel like Yasuo should see a below-50% win rate for two reasons, and you're only addressing one of them (that he's a high skill cap champion and players that haven't put a lot of time in to him will do poorly on him). The second reason which I've not seen addressed anywhere, is that Yasuo simply does not fit in the majority of team comps in league. That should make him a niche champion, and yet as the graphs Riot released show he has the widest and deepest playerbase of all champions (I think largest breadth, and second deepest after Kayn). That's a **huge** red flag to me. Why is a niche champion being played so much? Is it because the teams that allow him to thrive are super popular right now? **Absolutely not. The meta is actually very against comps that Yasuo would thrive in.** So the alternative is that players are **picking Yasuo in the wrong situations**. Why is Riot buffing a champion who is losing games that **he should lose**? What do you want your mid laner to bring to a game of league? Typically a threatening amount of magic damage, ranged waveclear to stall from behind, and some utility. If you look at historically good mid laners they all have all of these: {{champion:103}} {{champion:34}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:99}} etc... all demonstrate all of these properties. Yasuo **demonstrates none of them.** What do you want your top laner to bring to a game of league? Typically engage, peel, tankiness. In the recent meta even more than ever, you want a lot of peel and tankiness to let your ADC thrive. **Yasuo does none of this.** Then, Yasuo has a kit that's more dependent on allies than most champions. His ultimate is only usable on champions that are airborne, and he only has a somewhat unreliable way of doing it himself and often only on one target. Allies like {{champion:154}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:516}} etc... are great for Yasuo because they can knockup multiple enemies fairly reliably. Most champions don't bring AOE knockups for Yasuo to thrive with. You throw all of this together, and I'd expect that if Yasuo is being consistently picked with disregard to his team comp (which as we've all seen in solo queue, that last pick mid goes Yasuo in to allied {{champion:23}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:222}}). In games like that, he should lose. Yet I've had plenty of games like that where I'm on a true tank and stacking 300 armor and still struggling to win what should be free because Yasuo just puts out soo much damage through armor. So what I want to know: is Yasuo mid seeing a sub-50% win rate in all team comps, or is his win rate varying a lot across different teams? What is Yasuo's average win rate with any of these champions on his team: {{champion:12}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:143}} ? What about with these champions? {{champion:254}} {{champion:40}}, Support {{champion:63}} (i.e. his support can bring the magic damage). Or better yet, use the data to identify which champions Yasuo does well with, and see if he's consistently winning over 50% with a subset of specific champions. Tell me those are under 50% and I can be on board with Yasuo buffs. If they're like 54% then I think it's clear that Yasuo mains are just picking him knowing it's not a good time to do so, and they shouldn't get compensated for that. They're volunteering to have a sub-50% win rate if they're going to pick like that.
Just wanted to chime in and say I never really thought about it by comps. So I second a Request for response by Maple Nectar regarding this.
: I'm going to go ahead and just shut this right the heck down. I made the call for us **not** to ship a changelist that looked VERY similar to this before Worlds when we were doing our World's patches. At that point Yasuo was already winning >50% of his games, and while the changes were targeted more at making him viable in pro play, it was also undeniably a buff to him and did not feel responsible given he was already doing well on Live. Would it have been better if we saw Yasuo in more games at Worlds for "our bottom line", probably, but we explicitly made the call NOT to take the risk for the live game, and even if we'd shipped it, the reason would have been having a high skill expression champion at our largest event at the year, not to "generate sales".
> [{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n3yYGLHe,comment-id=000600000001000000010000,timestamp=2017-12-09T01:18:31.493+0000) > > I made the call for us **not** to ship a changelist that looked VERY similar to this before Worlds when we were doing our World's patches. At that point Yasuo was already winning >50% of his games Colour me confused for this statement but, are you saying you were going to buff a champion with these changes even when he had 50+% winrate? So these are just buffs until the next set of buffs? Is that what I am reading???
Meddler (NA)
: We've been testing a reduction to Teemo's Health per level as well, thinking there being that base AD hit alone's probably not enough by itself. Having said that he's too strong, but not radically so, so don't want to hammer him too hard. Ezreal does look a bit strong still. We've been talking about whether or not to nerf him in 7.24b or wait and see where he's at for 8.1. Last I heard the team had yet to come to a conclusion on that, in part since waiting for 8.1 lets us put that time into another champ instead and gives us a better understanding of what to hit/how hard.
So the teemo nerfs you are thinking about are aimed to make him weaker later in the game to dives/all ins? Isn't the problem with him the inability to deal with the early harass as a laner due to its free nature and easy of access compared to others? I'm just not seeing how HP/LVL nerf will actually affect him in any way or change the strength he has in lane against people who don't already beat him.
Sparkle (NA)
: I think that's a cool idea. We tried to do something a bit like that with runes - the weekly-ish Runes Corner posts in the Dev Cornerthere was a designated time for us to talk to players about specific things (here is a new keystone reveal!) but also just like, Runes in general. Curious on your opinion on the Runes Corners - did you know about them, like them, dislike them? Also to your PS - we never did? It's definitely a pillar for League still or else I'd have nothing to do lol
I'll first say something on the PS its the functionality of Zoe's E that CertainlyT stated that made me say this and makes me think clarity is gone. Feel free to disagree but from the way he has stated it and the way that part of the community has accepted it is that if an ability hits you you take the full effect which is unlike any other ability that has a delayed effect. See comparisons and questioning of clarity here https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7fpn0f/morgana_blocks_every_multistage_cc_with/dqe1gco/?context=3 Regarding the main part of my post and Runes corner. Runes corner to me was more like a glorified announcement like Ask Riot. To explain it better it was there to announce a feature and explain functionality and reasons more than to actually have a discussion. While it did what it was supposed to do it is very different from what I was suggesting. What I was attempting to suggest is more along the lines of a forum (a suggestion, discussion, and Q&A topic). Riot has stated in the past they want player suggestions, A set of topics where the people who actually work on that aspect of the game can interact with the players directly and give feedback on ideas and make ideas evolve organically from that suggestion would be great. The same can be used for feedback on things and to explain the reasoning for changes (kinda done now), lack of changes, or why something is healthy/unhealthy for the game at present. The main reason this may not work is the same reason we are not getting responses to questions that have been asked repeatedly, either the question is taboo or no one cares enough to respond. See my repeated request for answers regarding lore updates that I keep being told to wait on due to the question being too difficult (requires a higher up to reply aka never gonna happen) or taboo for a response to be made.
DyQuill (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Tendrian,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=WJKTWhlI,comment-id=00080004,timestamp=2017-12-06T02:46:21.458+0000) > > There has pretty much been radio silence from Riot since the lore dropped... can we get an update about your assessment of the situation? How much negative feedback has there actually been, compared to positive? Was there a noticeable split in opinion between people actually involved with the lore and those who only casually cared about it due to the big announcement? What do you think about the situation in general? i disagree with this a little - since the new narrative dropped, we've posted comments across forums almost every day, and have definitely been reading all the threads. I can give you some answers about overall reception, but to be honest, I feel like posting that kind of update will be taken as argumentative or defensive, because it's definitely not the view Boards often seems to have. I don't want to come in here saying something that can be read as "the rest of the world is cool with it," because 1. not the point most posters here are bringing up, which is valid and doesn't become invalid because they're a minority and 2. doesn't seem like the start of a fruitful discussion. The situation in general is that the community (Boards and beyond) could probably use some more insight into how we think about champions and their stories. I'm working on that now. One thing I do want to ask about, because I think it's relevant and something you can give us insight about: what do you see as the difference between "people actually involved with the lore" and those "who only casually care?" I don't disagree there's a difference, but I want to know how you all differentiate between those groups.
Why not have a Quiz on the old lore before a player responds to any survey about it and even a required entry of what makes you/made you attached to the new/old character, and what do you dislike about the new lore. Would solve the entire problem in one go. Tells you who was passionate about the old character, tells you what they enjoyed about them pretty easy really.
Sparkle (NA)
: I am sorry if it comes off as dismissive when we mention the size of Boards. Please do know we are not mentioning the size of our community here or anywhere else in an attempt to dismiss feedback, only to put discussions in the perspective of the larger community as a whole. To your point about sharing counterpoints from other places - I generally don't find it helpful to be like "HEY THE REST OF THE PLAYERS IN THE WORLD DISAGREE WITH YOU" when talking with an upset or angry player. That's why you won't often see player sentiment data waved in your face by Rioters as part of an offhand discussion (you're more likely to see some data in informative dev blogs posted on the website or something of that nature). I respectfully disagree with you that it actually helps a player see your point or feel better when you point out they're in the minority with their feelings. I will also mention that if someone is upset over something I'd much rather listen and find out why than link them some comments from other people who are not upset to show them they should not be upset. Also dude, Cacto didn't call anyone here on Boards dumb or say that opinions here didn't matter in your linked comments. You're putting those words in his mouth. ----- On a more general note: There's this thing that I keep seeing happen that really confuses me, where a Rioter will say something (it can be a statement about anything or even like patch notes or whatever but this is the most recent example) like "Boards is a relatively small community" and then folks will take that statement and repost it, adding on something to that they've decided on their own like "Riot said Boards is a relatively small community so they ignore us and they don't listen to anything we say". Then other Boards players will read the new, player generated comment and go "Riot said they ignore us? I am angry now" (pretty rightly so, based on the edited statement). It's like some weird text based game of telephone. I don't really have a good solution besides we manually go hunt down all these topics and correct them (because the onus is definitely on us to correct things we see misquoted or misconstrued) but just noting that it can be p exhausting sometimes, all told.
Not sure if this is a good idea or not based on what Rioters have posted in the past but would a rotating monthly talk from the departments on things be a feasible option? The biggest issue I keep seeing repeated is that the Rioters that do reply on the boards are usually not from the department that the thread is actually directed towards. Not trying to be disrespectful to you or those who do frequent the boards, its just as exhausting for players to try to get answers but never actually get someone who knows. A 3 day a month set of topics started by the department rioters themselves and regarding topics that would be in a voted on or rotating schedule (i.e. for Gameplay team on a rotating style it could be talks about specific classes of champions (a different one each time), overall design decisions on game health, etc. going more in depth and talking about decisions and answering questions related to the topic. For the art team it could be Map assets, Splash art, animations (this may be the champion team more though)). While we do have patch chat and Meddlers roughly weekly threads (which are amazing btw,) a large number of questions on the boards are either never answered or seem to be ignored due to; no one knowing the answer, just not wanting to tell the player base about it/its a taboo at riot to speak on it, or potentially the eternal answer of I am not sure and the question is left hanging. As can be seen the largest number of questions is aimed towards the gameplay/balance and champion design teams but these are also the least represented on the boards compared to the other departments in a, Department to question/topic ratio. To add to this the questions being asked are usually questions that may need to be answered by someone higher in the chain that those who are answering questions. This was just my thoughts on ways to try and get things back on track. Regarding all of this remember frustration breeds hostility, when players start to feel they are being ignored or lied to they will post/vote even information that is not true out of outrage. Being told something is open for discussion and then not responding to anything is one way to create that frustration. PS. When did we lose the tenet of clarity for gameplay as one of the pillars for Riot Games?
Ralanr (NA)
: Not that I have anything against the new lore, but couldn’t that have been done without changing some of the more well known aspects of his background? I already saw the video but I’m still unsure why you decided to go for a homosexual love.
I mean seeing the changes I can totally expect them to change Lux into a %%%%%%% who wants to hump everything cause they kept at least one aspect of her in a new lore (her laugh)
Sahn Uzal (EUW)
: just the questions on Varus or on other champs aswell? Being in a Discord with a bunch of Vlad mains, I've already seen a few questions being raised about his new lore.
Seems like none of these questions will get answered but with the feedback that I see on the boards I have requested an update.
DyQuill (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kobold,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1fBLUb9W,comment-id=0018000200000002,timestamp=2017-11-23T06:07:39.501+0000) > > So I will be the enemy of the boards and ask a few Questions. > > If there is overwhelmingly feedback what actions will be done? > > Due to the resources used to do lore rewrites I sincerely doubt a rerewrite will take place so are we to expect the same quality/writer for the future lore for him? > > What are the criteria that the lore writers were supposed to uphold for the character? (what aspects were "supposed" to be kept) > > As a pessimistic/critical person reading the responses here and on reddit seems like hollow words and everything is already set in stone is the feeling I am getting from both the lore team and many other departments in Riot. What is your take on the possibility of others feeling the same way? > > Since you referenced "unique" as a term for characters, what is your takeaway from some of the feedback of the more "modern" as you call it lore being considered extremely generic and removing aspects and stories that made the character actually unique? > > I have heard we are supposed to get more short stories for characters, why has the general response to negative feedback on lore been referencing future lore, whilst not giving players anything more than a wall while they may have to wait years to see if some semblance of the original character still exists? All really good questions. Can you hang tight for about a week? Literally all of these will be directly answered, and if they're not, I personally promise to come back here and answer them.
So I have been looking at the responses on the boards a bit (haven't gotten to all of them) and Doesn't seem like any of the questions I stated will be answered soon. looks like a week is too short a time ayy. Seems what people wanted kept from the previous lore was not kept and the overall feedback is very negative. Seems an issue that should have been seen ahead of time via a thread like this, don't you think. Seems There is more and more disconnect between rioters and the players as time seems to go on in the lore department. Any response to this?
darkdill (NA)
: Zoe's Sleep effect bypasses Morgana's shield, and can't be cleansed with Mikael's? No, Riot. NO.
Per the IDC about Clarity master CertainlyT https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7fpn0f/morgana_blocks_every_multistage_cc_with/dqe1gco/
DyQuill (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kobold,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1fBLUb9W,comment-id=0018000200000002,timestamp=2017-11-23T06:07:39.501+0000) > > So I will be the enemy of the boards and ask a few Questions. > > If there is overwhelmingly feedback what actions will be done? > > Due to the resources used to do lore rewrites I sincerely doubt a rerewrite will take place so are we to expect the same quality/writer for the future lore for him? > > What are the criteria that the lore writers were supposed to uphold for the character? (what aspects were "supposed" to be kept) > > As a pessimistic/critical person reading the responses here and on reddit seems like hollow words and everything is already set in stone is the feeling I am getting from both the lore team and many other departments in Riot. What is your take on the possibility of others feeling the same way? > > Since you referenced "unique" as a term for characters, what is your takeaway from some of the feedback of the more "modern" as you call it lore being considered extremely generic and removing aspects and stories that made the character actually unique? > > I have heard we are supposed to get more short stories for characters, why has the general response to negative feedback on lore been referencing future lore, whilst not giving players anything more than a wall while they may have to wait years to see if some semblance of the original character still exists? All really good questions. Can you hang tight for about a week? Literally all of these will be directly answered, and if they're not, I personally promise to come back here and answer them.
Completely fine with waiting. I'm personally not all that invested in champion lore anymore, I would just rather try to get the answers straight and I take the flak than to have there be a huge list of questions from players in single comments that never get answered.
DyQuill (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=def not altair,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1fBLUb9W,comment-id=00180002,timestamp=2017-11-23T04:31:56.143+0000) > > I'm glad you understand how much whiplash people are getting from this. Understandably, I feel like people are concerned about the change to his core character. It's not really the inclusion of a tragic backstory that concerns me, it's a departure from Varus himself. Two random Ionian hunters is not the Varus people love. He could so easily be fit into the Darkin lore by simply changing the nature of Pallas itself. I feel like what's concerning everyone is an unnecessary and what _feels_ like careless dissection of the concept of Varus, much akin to what happened to Diana and Leona, which essentially drained them of the traits that made them interesting, compelling and so importantly _relatable_ characters. Yeah, that's totally fair. But no joke - the Rioters behind this agonized over the decisions they were making, and really tried to create a story that was true to Varus, relevant to the modern lore, and unique as a character in League. We hope you love it, and maybe you still don't dig it, but the one thing I can promise you is that it's the farthest thing possible from a careless dissection.
So I will be the enemy of the boards and ask a few Questions. If there is overwhelmingly negative feedback what actions will be done? Due to the resources used to do lore rewrites I sincerely doubt a rerewrite will take place so are we to expect the same quality/writer for the future lore for him? What are the criteria that the lore writers were supposed to uphold for the character? (what aspects were "supposed" to be kept) As a pessimistic/critical person reading the responses here and on reddit seems like hollow words and everything is already set in stone is the feeling I am getting from both the lore team and many other departments in Riot. What is your take on the possibility of others feeling the same way? Since you referenced "unique" as a term for characters, what is your takeaway from some of the feedback of the more "modern" as you call it lore being considered extremely generic and removing aspects and stories that made the character actually unique? I have heard we are supposed to get more short stories for characters, why has the general response to negative feedback on lore been referencing future lore, whilst not giving players anything more than a wall while they may have to wait years to see if some semblance of the original character still exists?
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Kobold

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