iHerring (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bpXsfBpw,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-03-19T05:03:12.784+0000) > > Only 1 Blind in the entire game. {{champion:133}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:104}} https://i.imgur.com/3gkB8SK.png/img
> [{quoted}](name=iHerring,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bpXsfBpw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-19T10:32:16.908+0000) > > {{champion:133}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:104}} > https://i.imgur.com/3gkB8SK.png/img Teemo has the Blind. It doesn't alter your sight radius but it makes your attacks miss. (And judging by the way this community treats Teemo, you _know_ that if he was ever reworked, or if he had been made today instead of years ago, they wouldn't give him a Blind.) Quinn and Graves have a different status effect. it reduces your vision radius but doesn't cause your attacks to miss. Quinn's does stop _non-champion_ targets from being able to attack, but that's a **Disarm**, not a** Blind**. (It's also irrelevant because it doesn't effect Champions.) If you were wondering how many Champions have a Disarm effect, the number is 2.
Rioter Comments
: Why did Support become synonymous with Bot lane? The data shows that the advantage lost in bot lane is more than offset in jungler gold, in addition to having much greater objective control. It's completely arbitrary to say the Support needs to be Bot. In a parallel universe where the meta developed with a roaming support (as it did in DotA), people would be making an identical argument to what you just said for why laning Bot lane should be bannable. That is literally the definition of meta enforcement, and the ticket clearly states that that was not the reason.
> [{quoted}](name=Take the Draw,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FrILlWp7,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-02-26T01:55:11.818+0000) > > Why did Support become synonymous with Bot lane? Because Dreamhack 2011 happened and Riot has purposely pushed their entire game design since that point to enforce the meta that grew out of it. All other styles of play are forcibly squished. Fuck Riot. If you didn't play before that time, man, you missed out on a great game. People actually played whatever they wanted and nobody bitched about it.
: Riot Doesn't Understand Yorick (or Monsters)
This was supposed to be about me angrily arguing points about Yorick, not two strangers angrily arguing about ... wait what are you two arguing about? Flash?
Kovah (NA)
: I'm tired of having to defend my picks
That's the sort of community you get when a game company enforces a meta so strongly that it hasn't changed in 5 years, and designs all their Champions with such similar kits that the only question a person usually asks is "Who is currently the most OP <role>?"
: What's an Evelynn?!
I'm a rampaging angry feminist but I really don't care if they keep Evelynn sexualized. For the same reason that I don't care if they sexualize Cassiopeia or Ahri: because it's actually a design that fits their character. As to every OTHER female character who is just COINCIDENTALLY drawn like a skinny 20-year old sexy pin-up in tight clothes with splash art that always seems to show off their "assets" ... that's some sexist bullshit I wish they'd stop doing. But they won't. Come on, this is Riot.
Solitair (NA)
: Yet, Chinese people have their own bloody action films; and one of the imported Chinese Akali splashes was deemed too bloody by NA standards and subsequently altered(it contained a severed head). Overall, Riot has to accomodate all these mature thematic elements that make Runeterra feel like an epic fantasy world to a global pg-13 compromise. There are many countries and cultures that are affected, and in turn, affect Riot's game design. It is frankly stupid, narrow-sighted, and a little xenophobic to blame everything you don't like about the game on "chinese overlords".
> [{quoted}](name=Intrepid 07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=004300000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T22:20:32.576+0000) > > Yet, Chinese people have their own bloody action films; and one of the imported Chinese Akali splashes was deemed too bloody by NA standards and subsequently altered(it contained a severed head). Overall, Riot has to accomodate all these mature thematic elements that make Runeterra feel like an epic fantasy world to a global pg-13 compromise. There are many countries and cultures that are affected, and in turn, affect Riot&#x27;s game design. It is frankly stupid, narrow-sighted, and a little xenophobic to blame everything you don&#x27;t like about the game on &quot;chinese overlords&quot;. Because the laws behind Riot's censorship really only apply to foreign media. Also, fun fact, they don't expressly forbid bones. Bones are just one thing which Western companies have found frequently leads to games not being accepted, so as a business decision, they have decided to frequently censor their own content in order to guarantee an easy and speedy release in Chinese markets. In some cases, this means they create one version enjoyed by the rest of the world, and a censored version for China. In other cases, like Riot, they create one version for everyone. Without bones. Because they're cowards. I don't blame everything I hate about this game on Chinese Overlords. China isn't censoring the game, Riot is. And Flash is the thing I hate the most.
: > [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T06:23:17.216+0000) > > That is patently false, and if anything Riot has put in extra work to find an art direction that fits. First you were arguing that the reason they didn't create two different models was because that would be more work, now you are arguing that it was more work to find an appropriate art style for just one model? Which is it? > This is a multiplayer game. Not every individual can be catered to, and your tastes clash with those of a wider audience. Let's speak plainly here, it's not the "tastes of a wider audience", it's the taboo laws of one country's government. And I'll reiterate once again, if it were IMPOSSIBLE to do business in China without removing all the undesirable content, I would understand. But it's not. The alternate art of World of WarCraft and Dota 2 prove that you can easily have a game which features cool content enjoyed by Western audiences while giving China an alternate, censor-friendly version. World of WarCraft didn't remove their skeletons, they just gave the Chinese alternate art. Dota 2 didn't remove their skeletons, they just gave the Chinese alternate art. League of Legends, on the other hand... > Karthus dresses in blue now? This is news to me. I was speaking of his spell effects, not his robe color.
> [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000006,timestamp=2016-08-25T19:43:03.330+0000) > Sure, let&#x27;s add time-travelling future aliens in Middle-Earth, because diversity. It&#x27;s also pretty silly to accuse LoL of a lack of diversity when it has everything you mentioned, bar skeletons. Time-travelling aliens in Middle-Earth clearly wouldn't make sense. Skeletons in League of Legends makes perfect sense. Literally the only reason they aren't in the game is Chinese censorship laws. Riot didn't set out to make "a fantasy game with all the normal tropes EXCEPT skeletons", they were making a game like any other. It was only later down the line they decided to remove all past-and-future skeletons as part of a business decision related to one country. > Because there are literally dozens of other pieces of entertainment that I enjoy that also offer gore and skeletons. I&#x27;m not going to stroll into a vegan restaurant and demand that they serve me beef, just as I feel no need to demand Riot to pile literally all of my fantasies into a single product. It's not barging into a vegan restaurant and demanding beef. It's eating beef at a buffet and then a staff member abruptly comes up and takes it away from you. When you ask why, they say "Sorry, we decided we aren't serving meat any more. Some people find it offensive." Yeah, you can just go to another restaurant, but that doesn't mean the situation isn't ridiculous and you can't complain about it. > And yet here you are, whining about a game you don&#x27;t seem to care about, complaining that it doesn&#x27;t care about you. Why didn&#x27;t you move on to another game? I can play other games and complain about another simultaneously. These things are allowed. > Well yes, publicly shaming another culture for their private beliefs is kinda racist, though you are ultimately entitled to your own opinion. Accusing an entire nation of conspiring to impose their culture on you based on tenuous, oft-refuted insinuations is also racist. Some things fit into the category of "Cultural beliefs which should be respected". Some things fall into the category of "Weird sh*t that reasonable people don't believe". We're not talking about a religion here, we're taking about a taboo on "seeing human bones". Are we supposed to show equal sensitivity to the "private beliefs" of all those morons who think ground animal parts will give them erections? How about the "private beliefs" of people who really, really believe in astrology? The Chinese people aren't CONSPIRING TO IMPOSE THEIR BELIEFS on us. It's just an unfortunate situation in which a silly taboo is being enforced by an oppressive government, and by weird coincidence this government is influential enough for this law to have far-reaching effects on people who don't even live under said government. It's a byproduct of global economics and politics, not a conspiracy. Interestingly though, there is a way around this unfortunate byproduct - you can just create two different versions of your game. Like WoW did and Dota did. And League used to do. China isn't censoring the art in this game, Riot is. That's why I bitterly mock them and call them cowards. > What content? What did we lose? Karthus' skull. Sion's bones. And all the content we _would_ have had if Riot wasn't obsessed with putting _"Will it pass Chinese censorship laws?"_ as their top priority of the art department. Yorick could have summoned little skeletons! An army of Teemo sized zombies! Oh what fun it might have been...
: Sorry to burst your bubble - but you need a reality check. People do avoid champions who are "ugly" just like who people avoid pretty much everything else that is "ugly". You countered by pointing out how Yorick or Urgot or Trundle were once most play/banned champions for a time. Will guess what? It's because they were considered "OP" during those time. And there's only one (two) thing(s) in the world that people love more than "pretty" things, winning/money (maybe money). When was the last time you saw ugly champions popular picks at the same time they weren't being insta-banned? This the ugly truth. You probably won't accept it... because it's ugly.
> [{quoted}](name=TheStevenWu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=004f,timestamp=2016-08-25T19:42:49.929+0000) > > Sorry to burst your bubble - but you need a reality check. > > People do avoid champions who are &quot;ugly&quot; just like who people avoid pretty much everything else that is &quot;ugly&quot;. Have you SEEN Pudge?
: > [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T06:23:17.216+0000) > > That is patently false, and if anything Riot has put in extra work to find an art direction that fits. First you were arguing that the reason they didn't create two different models was because that would be more work, now you are arguing that it was more work to find an appropriate art style for just one model? Which is it? > This is a multiplayer game. Not every individual can be catered to, and your tastes clash with those of a wider audience. Let's speak plainly here, it's not the "tastes of a wider audience", it's the taboo laws of one country's government. And I'll reiterate once again, if it were IMPOSSIBLE to do business in China without removing all the undesirable content, I would understand. But it's not. The alternate art of World of WarCraft and Dota 2 prove that you can easily have a game which features cool content enjoyed by Western audiences while giving China an alternate, censor-friendly version. World of WarCraft didn't remove their skeletons, they just gave the Chinese alternate art. Dota 2 didn't remove their skeletons, they just gave the Chinese alternate art. League of Legends, on the other hand... > Karthus dresses in blue now? This is news to me. I was speaking of his spell effects, not his robe color.
> [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004,timestamp=2016-08-25T17:18:23.857+0000) > > Sure. How many people do you think want gore so much that they&#x27;d want Riot to release separate models for multiple chapions or redo their art direction? Because I&#x27;m still pretty sure that&#x27;s a small number. If more people actually realized it was an option, I think they would be quite happy to see it done. Unfortunately a huge chunk of the playerbase seems to just kind of mindlessly accept whatever Riot says. > Riot has their own development model which is just as successful, if not more successful. I really don&#x27;t think they need to copy other companies for the sake of pleasing you. Depends on how you define successful. Do you measure it by the amount of people playing the game, or the diversity of content within the game? I would argue that creating cooler content while managing to appease two different audiences is the greater success. Not from a business standpoint, certainly, but from a design standpoint. > No, I&#x27;m actually a sucker for gore and bones in video games, but I don&#x27;t see why it&#x27;s necessary in League, since their art direction is excellent. I also think the two-version model for WoW and Dota is fine, though it does create consistency issues and incurs a loss in a champion&#x27;s aesthetic post-transition. Meanwhile, in League undead champions look the same to everyone, so you don&#x27;t have to design around two different art styles (or one art style and a cover-up style) each time. It's not about necessity, it's about diversity. Having robots in the game isn't necessary, but it's cool to have them. Having dragons in the game isn't necessary, but it's cool to have them. It adds more flavors, more fantasies. The fact that they used to have alternate versions of Sion and Karthus proves that at one point, they _were_ okay with the model of giving western audiences some skeletons while censoring them in China. The decision to remove ALL skeletons from the game wasn't made because they wanted to pursue an interesting, unique new art direction - it was a tactical business decision solely fueled by censorship laws in one country. I'm really curious though, since you say you enjoy gore and bones! Why exactly are you so totally-fine with a huge fantasy trope, of which you are a fan, being excluded from a game you enjoy because of taboos you don't agree with? You are literally being denied something you enjoy because of OTHER people's preferences, in a game which is supposed to be all about diverse player options to suit everyone's fantasies. And one of YOUR preferred fantasies is straight-up BANNED because of Chinese censorship laws. Feels like you ought to have some misgivings about all that. > Then why post? What is the use in clogging up a feedback board if you don&#x27;t expect to incur any in-game change? > Clearly, judging by such luminary threads as &quot;Why Dota is better&quot; and &quot;League is the most boring MOBA. Prove me wrong?&quot;, made months to years ago, you must be an upstanding guardian for truth, justice and the Runeterran way, you upstanding citizen you. Damn, I've been discovered. Dig a little bit farther back and you'll find some cool stuff though! An old post which is basically the same as this one, giving Riot sh*t for claiming Urgot's unpopularity is because he is ugly. And a really old post I made on the old Forums about the prevalence of mobility creep in their game design and how it's horrible. I ever did MATHS and made GRAPHS to prove my point! > Real talk, though: I don't think you're here to shout loudly about anybody's stupidity or hypocrisy, you're just here to shout loudly, period. You keep on claiming that Riot is evil, cowardly, lazy, stupid, etc., yet can't seem to stop playing their game Real talk though, I can stop playing. I did, in fact. I put in about 1500 games in 2010-2011, then "the meta" emerged from that first Dreamhack _(Shushei showing the world that Gragas wasn't a joke! those were the days)_ and Riot partnered with Tencent, and after that the game just went downhill from there. I have fond memories of the good ol' days and I like to pop in and shout angrily from time to time. > the truth is that you&#x27;re an entitled, racist, compulsive whiner who gets their kicks from stirring up pointless drama. If you can&#x27;t control your textual diarrhea, at least be honest about your motivations. Is it racist to point out that the Chinese taboo on bones is silly? I wouldn't really care about their opinion on bones if it didn't have any effect on me. But it did. Because I used to be able to play as a Lich with a skull, and now I can't. Because somewhere down the line at Riot, a designer proposed an idea for a Skeleton champion and was told _"That's a cool idea! But we can't do skeletons. You know, Chinese censorship laws and all that."_ And I probably would have really enjoyed that champion. (if they were released back when I played) I don't lose sleep over it, but it's a decision which takes content _out_ of the game that really ought to be there. And as other (better) companies have demonstrated by using to the two-region model, it doesn't have to be that way. You can try to spin it whatever way you want, say the changes were just part of a "new unique undead art direction", but we both know the truth of the matter. When Riot had their little business meeting to discuss the new art direction, they weren't doing it because they wanted to create something new and cool and unique. They were doing it because of the censorship laws. It all comes down to making the censorship laws less hassle for Riot. This debate we're having right now would not be taking place if those laws didn't exist. I don't really see the merit in having an accepting attitude towards ludicrous censorship laws being enforced by an oppressive government. If that's racist then ... I guess I'm a Chinese racist? Learn somethin' new every day!
: > [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T06:23:17.216+0000) > > That is patently false, and if anything Riot has put in extra work to find an art direction that fits. First you were arguing that the reason they didn't create two different models was because that would be more work, now you are arguing that it was more work to find an appropriate art style for just one model? Which is it? > This is a multiplayer game. Not every individual can be catered to, and your tastes clash with those of a wider audience. Let's speak plainly here, it's not the "tastes of a wider audience", it's the taboo laws of one country's government. And I'll reiterate once again, if it were IMPOSSIBLE to do business in China without removing all the undesirable content, I would understand. But it's not. The alternate art of World of WarCraft and Dota 2 prove that you can easily have a game which features cool content enjoyed by Western audiences while giving China an alternate, censor-friendly version. World of WarCraft didn't remove their skeletons, they just gave the Chinese alternate art. Dota 2 didn't remove their skeletons, they just gave the Chinese alternate art. League of Legends, on the other hand... > Karthus dresses in blue now? This is news to me. I was speaking of his spell effects, not his robe color.
> [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2016-08-25T15:11:42.835+0000) > Well no, one part wouldn&#x27;t appeal at all to a large part of Riot&#x27;s audience, and the other would only be useful in pleasing an insignificantly tiny audience of people who insist on seeing gore. It is simply not worth Riot&#x27;s time when they could be dedicating their art resources to, say, more visual updates and skins. Moreover, Riot made a decision with their new art style: the undead don&#x27;t need gore to be represented. It makes no internal sense to add gore at all. > As said above, the amount of &quot;die-hards&quot; who insist on bones is far too small for this to ever truly be worth considering. > more work than needs to be done at all. You may be entirely right in that I'm in the minority of thinking the "hunchback gravedigger" was a good look, but if you honestly think the amount of players who WANT to see skeletal undead is small ... you are vastly underestimating the size of the audience. I've never met a single person who played fantasy games that didn't have an appreciation for the skeletons. (Then again, I've never been to China. But I'd like to believe there are plenty of reasonable, rational, educated people in China who aren't actually offended by something the entire rest of the world knows is okay.) I really don't see where the logic is failing to connect for you. I'm suggesting Riot employ a development model ALREADY BEING SUCCESSFULLY USED by multiple other companies. A model which appeals to MORE people, by offering two different options to suit two different preferences instead of one watered-down choice. Do you actually think the "two versions" model employed by WoW and Dota is bad? Are you personally against the idea of seeing skeletons in this game? > > Remind me again of the time when accusing a game company of laziness or cowardice pushed them to cater to you more? Oh I don't actually believe Riot is going to listen or be redeemed. They left that behind years ago. I'm just here to fling mud and shout loudly about their stupidity and/or hypocrisy. > > Traditional skins failed to truly appeal even to the players who asked for them, and so were dropped. Riot themselves mentioned this. Again, this is not a question of &quot;laziness&quot;, this is a question of using limited resources towards far better goals. They said that, did they? Well, never put it past Riot to drop the ball, I suppose.
Rozzeta (NA)
: "Yeah, so we called the champion cancer for the game, did not give him any skins or add him in the weekly free rotation for years, but the reason it was underplayed is totally because he was ugly, guys" - Rito 2016. I actually await when they try to say the same thing about Urgot in a potential rework, when they intentionally nerfed him again and again so he could no longer be used as a counter to the AD carry bot lane (back when Riot needed to speed up the game, and enshrined the ADC into the mandatory damage dealer role). There was a patch, I think around Hekarim era, in which they gave him a buff that put him back in bot lane, and was reverted less than a week after.
> [{quoted}](name=Rozzeta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0046,timestamp=2016-08-25T10:30:03.977+0000) > > &quot;Yeah, so we called the champion cancer for the game, did not give him any skins or add him in the weekly free rotation for years, but the reason it was underplayed is totally because he was ugly, guys&quot; - Rito 2016. > > I actually await when they try to say the same thing about Urgot, when they intentionally nerfed him again and again so he could no longer be used as a counter to the AD carry bot lane (back when Riot needed to speed up the game, and enshrined the ADC into the mandatory damage dealer role). There was a patch, I think around Hekarim era, in which they gave him a buff that put him back in bot lane, and was reverted less than a week after. I used to enjoy trolling in Ranked, back in 2015, by picking Urgot. Lots of people freaked out on both sides. Allies assumed we would instantly lose, enemies had no idea how to play against him because most of them had never even seen an Urgot before, it was pretty funny.
Diarrhoea (EUNE)
: Battle Bunny Leona, damn I want it so bad.
F*ck these sexist Battle Bunny skins. You want fap material there is sites for that. Doesn't need to be in the game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T06:23:17.216+0000) > > That is patently false, and if anything Riot has put in extra work to find an art direction that fits. First you were arguing that the reason they didn't create two different models was because that would be more work, now you are arguing that it was more work to find an appropriate art style for just one model? Which is it? > This is a multiplayer game. Not every individual can be catered to, and your tastes clash with those of a wider audience. Let's speak plainly here, it's not the "tastes of a wider audience", it's the taboo laws of one country's government. And I'll reiterate once again, if it were IMPOSSIBLE to do business in China without removing all the undesirable content, I would understand. But it's not. The alternate art of World of WarCraft and Dota 2 prove that you can easily have a game which features cool content enjoyed by Western audiences while giving China an alternate, censor-friendly version. World of WarCraft didn't remove their skeletons, they just gave the Chinese alternate art. Dota 2 didn't remove their skeletons, they just gave the Chinese alternate art. League of Legends, on the other hand... > Karthus dresses in blue now? This is news to me. I was speaking of his spell effects, not his robe color.
> [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T06:56:10.903+0000) > > But why go on that model when League&#x27;s current universal model works? Bar an extremely small minority, Riot&#x27;s stylistic choice for the undead has been positively received. There is no need for two separate art styles. Because it would ... dare I say it ... appeal to a wider audience. Let's break it down into a theoretical group of 100 people. Half the people really don't like skeletons, half of them are okay with skeletons, and a small minority really want skeletons. If you go with their current model, the boneless undead will appeal to 95% of the potential players. Group A likes it, most of Group B likes it, but there's a few players like myself who wanted something else. If you go with the model set forth by other (better) companies, you can appeal to _100% _ of potential players by giving Group A censored content and Group B uncensored content. Sure, not everyone in Group B WANTED bones, but they don't really care either way, and the small amount of die-hards are appeased. Creating censored models takes very little work, as demonstrated by Dota Low Violence. Is there blood? Remove it or color it black. Is there bones? Cover them with flesh or armor. There is no rational excuse for not appealing to both groups. The only possible explanations are laziness or cowardice. > So? I fail to see how clearer, more consistent spell particles are bad for creativity. I was speaking of the color, not their clarity. They were red, not blue. An unnecessary change. At the very least, they could have given him a "Classic" skin where the updated particles were colored red, like his old spells were. Much in the same way that when Trundle was overhauled to be an Ice Troll they left him a token skin that kept his former ugly, swampy effects. Credit where it's due, Riot actually showed some respect to players who enjoy ugly monsters during the Trundle overhaul.
: > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0037000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T06:17:21.789+0000) > > People used to say the same thing about World of WarCraft. Look how that turned out. > > At least half of all uses of Flash are people who should have died Flashing away to safety. If they really wanted to make Flash all about rewarding risky plays, they would make it only usable for engaging, like Dota&#x27;s Blink Dagger. > > Flash is a safety net that allows people to survive being stupid, and it&#x27;s been in place so long the idea of removing it makes everyone panic. Anyone could easily say the same of Heal or Barrier. Or that 'ignite only lets you get kills you should not have gotten. It's a safety net for not dealing enough damage'. Stop acting like some superior hipster. Yes, it is a safety net, and if you failed to kill them while their flash was up, then they most certainly SHOULD NOT have died. That is the damn purpose of flash, is to give you an extra ability. That would be like saying 'Teleport is a safety net for when you otherwise would have lost that tower' or 'Exhaust is a safety net for when you otherwise would have failed to secure a kill' or 'Barrier is a safety net for when you otherwise would have died from your dumb tower dive'. Tracking their flash cooldown, and trying to preserve your own, is no different than any other summoner spell, item cooldown, ability cooldown, ultimate or other thing in the game. But according to your match history, you probably hate it because you refuse to take it then lose, to opponents who aren't trying to be hipsters.
> [{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00370000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T06:30:31.477+0000) > > Anyone could easily say the same of Heal or Barrier. Or that &#x27;ignite only lets you get kills you should not have gotten. It&#x27;s a safety net for not dealing enough damage&#x27;. Stop acting like some superior hipster. Yes, it is a safety net, and if you failed to kill them while their flash was up, then they most certainly SHOULD NOT have died. That is the damn purpose of flash, is to give you an extra ability. That would be like saying &#x27;Teleport is a safety net for when you otherwise would have lost that tower&#x27; or &#x27;Exhaust is a safety net for when you otherwise would have failed to secure a kill&#x27; or &#x27;Barrier is a safety net for when you otherwise would have died from your dumb tower dive&#x27;. Alright, you've convinced me. All Summoner Spells are stupid safety nets. They should remove them all. And while we're at it, can we just admit that the Rune system is an utter failure that should be removed? Masteries aren't much better, either...
: > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T06:05:09.977+0000) > > Inappropriate? No. Just boring. That is your opinion. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T06:05:09.977+0000) > > Skeletons are an old and beloved fantasy trope that all people should be entitled to That is your opinion. You are also missing the point that you are not entitled to anything in this game, particularly since the vast majority of the content you enjoy is free. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T06:05:09.977+0000) > > Over 100 Champions in this game but we can&#x27;t have ONE skeleton. Not because it would be impossible, but because Riot just doesn&#x27;t want to put in the work. That is patently false, and if anything Riot has put in extra work to find an art direction that fits. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T06:05:09.977+0000) > > No, they took AWAY my dish (Old Yorick) and replaced it with something I didn&#x27;t want, all because OTHER people didn&#x27;t like it. This is a multiplayer game. Not every individual can be catered to, and your tastes clash with those of a wider audience. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T06:05:09.977+0000) > > Dude was a dead-skinned hunchbacked gravedigger, with a voice like a dying cow, who summoned disease ghouls and wore tattered rags. Yes, being ugly was a component of his personality. That is your opinion. New Yorick's skin is sallow and pale, he is still hunchbacked, his new VA is significantly better, though still gravelly, and he still summons ghouls. Even by your standards, he is still ugly. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T06:05:09.977+0000) > > I don&#x27;t really mind the Karthus rework, at least when it comes to his model. > But Karthus didn&#x27;t NEED to have his colors changed from red to blue. Karthus dresses in blue now? This is news to me. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T06:05:09.977+0000) > > All they had to do was bring his model quality into the modern era. Yorick didn&#x27;t NEED to have his theme changed from &quot;dirt and disease&quot; to &quot;blue ghosts&quot;, he just needed his kit to be updated. That is your opinion. Yorick needed an overhaul, an overhaul that was requested _by his core fanbase_. Dirt and disease are themes much better encapsulated in other champions, e.g. Twitch. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T06:05:09.977+0000) > > These are _unnecessary_ changes which _reduce_ the number of unique aesthetics in the game. That is your opinion. Or, just maybe, the color palette they share is indicative of a shared theme that allows anyone to easily identify them and the faction they represent. They still all have unique aesthetics, and if anything Yorick's new appearance brings far more aesthetic diversity, with his unique tombstone cape, than his old one.
> [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T06:23:17.216+0000) > > That is patently false, and if anything Riot has put in extra work to find an art direction that fits. First you were arguing that the reason they didn't create two different models was because that would be more work, now you are arguing that it was more work to find an appropriate art style for just one model? Which is it? > This is a multiplayer game. Not every individual can be catered to, and your tastes clash with those of a wider audience. Let's speak plainly here, it's not the "tastes of a wider audience", it's the taboo laws of one country's government. And I'll reiterate once again, if it were IMPOSSIBLE to do business in China without removing all the undesirable content, I would understand. But it's not. The alternate art of World of WarCraft and Dota 2 prove that you can easily have a game which features cool content enjoyed by Western audiences while giving China an alternate, censor-friendly version. World of WarCraft didn't remove their skeletons, they just gave the Chinese alternate art. Dota 2 didn't remove their skeletons, they just gave the Chinese alternate art. League of Legends, on the other hand... > Karthus dresses in blue now? This is news to me. I was speaking of his spell effects, not his robe color.
: > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00370000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T05:39:13.734+0000) > > Listen here sonny Jim, I played back in 2010, and Flash was a lot more powerful back then. It&#x27;s been powerful for it&#x27;s entire existence. So powerful they have nerfed it over and over and over but people keep using it because it&#x27;s too damn good not to. You think you want that, but trust me, you don&#x27;t. > > *shudders* > > If they just want to sell skins all they have to do is keep pumping out the gimmicky ones. Like the &quot;Arcade&quot; series and the &quot;Mecha&quot; series. No need to redesign a champion. Except people will only buy so many skins for the current set of champions who are popular. Reworking Yorick visually and gameplay wise opens up another champion to sell skins on. And no, do not fucking use that "Blizzard" games line. That "You think you want that, but trust me you don't." Yes. I do. And you do not know better than I do what I want. You aren't my conscious speaking from the back of my head. I play this game because it is more fun than DOTA by a long shot, and obviously people agree, as it is the most popular online game in the world. Compared to Dota 2 which had an... okay launch. While some independent choices have been bad. The overall game design has remained the most popular because people love it. And part of that is that you do not spend an hour farming and denying farm scared of making a mistake. Flash does give people a 'get out of jail free' card. But they left that in monopoly for a reason. It lets League players take more risks, and make bigger plays. It is a fun mechanic, and will be here forever. The range nerf on flash was nice, it made things take more skill and planning to execute with Flash. But I honestly feel reducing the cooldown would be nice. But I will leave it up for Riot and pro players to decide on that.
> [{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003700000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T05:46:17.329+0000) > it is the most popular online game in the world. People used to say the same thing about World of WarCraft. Look how that turned out. > It lets League players take more risks, and make bigger plays. At least half of all uses of Flash are people who should have died Flashing away to safety. If they really wanted to make Flash all about rewarding risky plays, they would make it only usable for engaging, like Dota's Blink Dagger. Flash is a safety net that allows people to survive being stupid, and it's been in place so long the idea of removing it makes everyone panic.
: > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003800000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T05:08:44.096+0000) > > By only allowing us to have content which is first deemed appropriate for their Chinese customers? And somehow this content is inappropriate to us? Aren't you kind of missing the point that this kind of content is universally appropriate? > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003800000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T05:08:44.096+0000) > > Yes. We are all entitled to skeletons. Because skeletons are cool and many of us don&#x27;t reside in a country where skeletons are taboo. But that doesn't entitle you to skeletons, that just means you like skeletons and could be catered to in a game. That game doesn't have to be League, and League's developers certainly do not owe you skeletons. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003800000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T05:08:44.096+0000) > > It&#x27;s a buffet, people choose their own dish. Much like how players in League choose what champion they want to play. > I&#x27;m asking the caterer not to take my dish away just because some of the other guests don&#x27;t like my food. But Riot just gave you your dish, you just decided it wasn't to your specific liking. This analogy's been stretched way beyond any reasonable point, but the core of it is that Yorick's new art is pretty popular even now -- just not to you. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003800000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T05:08:44.096+0000) > > Being in the minority isn&#x27;t the same thing as being irrelevant. Yorick is ONE Champion. He shouldn&#x27;t appeal to everyone. That&#x27;s the entire point of having a diverse roster - so that all kinds of different people find something that appeals to them. True, but the point is that you're a minority even among Yorick's playerbase. Sure, you deserve to have your voice heard, but that's different from Riot bending to your whims at the expense of a much larger amount of players. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003800000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T05:08:44.096+0000) > > You don&#x27;t want to play an ugly champion? That&#x27;s fine! You can play one of the other 100 Champions that aren&#x27;t ugly. Was his ugliness really core to his identity? Was he really even an "ugly" champion, besides the poor quality of his old model? You're either saying Riot dislikes ugly champions, which is patently false considering the popularity of other ugly, deformed or monstrous champions, several of which I listed, or you're saying Riot should have kept his old model for some reason, in the same vein as Taric keeping his pizza feet. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003800000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T05:08:44.096+0000) > > Karthus hardly has the same silhouette or color scheme - he used to be almost fat with that giant robe, now he appears much more slender. His particles used to all be reddish-purple (to match his robes), but were changed to Shadow Isles Blue in the update. The same color as Yorick&#x27;s new spell effects. Which conveniently matches the general aesthetic of Hecarim, Kalista, and Thresh. So... Karthus is totally different because he lost weight? As a lich? Do you really prefer his old in-game model, which was basically a garish, floating chess piece? Do you really think that champions who use the same kind of magic having consistent spell effect colors is a _bad_ thing? Why? > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003800000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T05:08:44.096+0000) > > Maokai used to have much brighter greens infused with some purple magic sparkles, but those were all dropped in favor of a dull swamp green with tinges of blue, which all seem to carry aesthetic of &quot;evil mist&quot; instead of &quot;enchanted magical nature&quot;. His purple was ugly and his overall bright green particles were an eyesore. You are obviously entitled to your own opinion, but keep in mind that Maokai's visual update was near-unanimously positively received. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003800000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T05:08:44.096+0000) > > Does this make them all the same champion? Obviously not. But it took an interesting, wide array of aesthetics and dilutes them all down into something much less interesting due to it&#x27;s sameness. If by "interesting, wide array of aesthetics" you mean "cartoonish purples and poorly-rendered, low-poly, oft-rehashed particles", then sure, but as often seems to be the case, you are in the minority here, as the Shadow Isles color scheme adjustment has been well-received by the vast majority of the playerbase, and at worst has caused few complaints.
> [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0038000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T05:34:55.277+0000) > And somehow this content is inappropriate to us? Aren&#x27;t you kind of missing the point that this kind of content is universally appropriate? Inappropriate? No. Just boring. The same way that it made Graves more boring to remove his cigar in order to make him more "appropriate" to a wider audience. > But that doesn&#x27;t entitle you to skeletons, that just means you like skeletons and could be catered to in a game. That game doesn&#x27;t have to be League, and League&#x27;s developers certainly do not owe you skeletons. Skeletons are an old and beloved fantasy trope that all people should be entitled to, especially from a company that talks so much about how it wants to have champions to fulfill any fantasy the player wants. Over 100 Champions in this game but we can't have ONE skeleton. Not because it would be impossible, but because Riot just doesn't want to put in the work. Freaking BLIZZARD (who I love to criticize almost as much as Riot) have more balls when it comes to this stuff. WoW is full of skeletons and they just give the Chinese version alternate models. > But Riot just gave you your dish, you just decided it wasn&#x27;t to your specific liking. This analogy&#x27;s been stretched way beyond any reasonable point, but the core of it is that Yorick&#x27;s new art is pretty popular even now -- just not to you. No, they took AWAY my dish (Old Yorick) and replaced it with something I didn't want, all because OTHER people didn't like it. > Was his ugliness really core to his identity? Was he really even an &quot;ugly&quot; champion, besides the poor quality of his old model? You&#x27;re either saying Riot dislikes ugly champions, which is patently false considering the popularity of other ugly, deformed or monstrous champions, several of which I listed, or you&#x27;re saying Riot should have kept his old model for some reason, in the same vein as Taric keeping his pizza feet. Dude was a dead-skinned hunchbacked gravedigger, with a voice like a dying cow, who summoned disease ghouls and wore tattered rags. Yes, being ugly was a component of his personality. > So... Karthus is totally different because he lost weight? As a lich? Do you really prefer his old in-game model, which was basically a garish, floating chess piece? Do you really think that champions who use the same kind of magic having consistent spell effect colors is a _bad_ thing? Why? I don't really mind the Karthus rework, at least when it comes to his model. But Karthus didn't NEED to have his colors changed from red to blue. All they had to do was bring his model quality into the modern era. Yorick didn't NEED to have his theme changed from "dirt and disease" to "blue ghosts", he just needed his kit to be updated. These are _unnecessary_ changes which _reduce_ the number of unique aesthetics in the game. You want to have a bunch of characters who all look the same and have similar particle effects? Save it for skins. Everyone loves the Commandos, and the Arcades, and the Mechas. But let their base models have some bloody uniqueness.
: > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003700000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-08-25T05:20:47.543+0000) > > That wasn&#x27;t really the point of the post though, it was just tacked on because I like to remind people about the Cancerous Game Design known as Flash. It is great game design. Look, I can make a blanket statement based on my opinion as well. If you don't want people commenting on Flash instead of the 'main topic', don't randomly sweep their legs at the last second with it. It doesn't belong in this post. Remove it, make a new post called "Can we remove flash" and watch it get downvoted out of existence. Flash is amazing design, and 'Dota 2' doing fine isn't an argument. Dota 2 has and doesn't have a lot of things LoL has and doesn't have. LoL is far more popular, and for most people more fun. Because things like Flash, make the game more aggressive, flashy and fun. No, they shouldn't remove flash. I almost hope they buff it a little, would make the game more exciting. You are detracting from your own topic by popping that in at the end of the post, as if it's just something the community is going to nod and say 'yeah, and that blow at the end, take that Riot!' Riot makes some shitty choices, here and there. But generally do their best to sell us a good game. Flash has been helping make this game more fun than Dota since 2010. And sure, I don't think making Yorick pretty was a good idea(Even though he is still 'ugly'.) I like his old model. But the fact is, he is not played, and skins sell for a reason. Because people like things that look good. So while I like Yorick's old design, and his new design. I see why they would make him into a champion they could sell skins on, you know, their main source of profit?
> [{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0037000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T05:27:25.820+0000) >I almost hope they buff it a little, would make the game more exciting. Listen here sonny Jim, I played back in 2010, and Flash was a lot more powerful back then. It's been powerful for it's entire existence. So powerful they have nerfed it over and over and over but people keep using it because it's too damn good not to. You think you want that, but trust me, you don't. *shudders* > I see why they would make him into a champion they could sell skins on, you know, their main source of profit? If they just want to sell skins all they have to do is keep pumping out the gimmicky ones. Like the "Arcade" series and the "Mecha" series. No need to redesign a champion.
: > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0037000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T01:51:09.143+0000) > > Strange, because no other MOBA has Flash, and I wouldn&#x27;t describe all other MOBAs laning phase as &quot;a mire of ultra-safe, passive farming, where the slightest mistake would be literally punishable by death because the lack of a universally available escape&quot; > In fact, I find LoL&#x27;s laning phase to be incredibly boring compared to almost any other MOBA I have played. At least, it is now-a-days. It used to be fun, back in 2010, before the first Dreamhack spawned &quot;the meta&quot; which we have been stuck with for the last 6 years. > > (Fun fact: There used to be a time when every single team wasn&#x27;t composed of a Tanky Solotop, Ganker Junker, AP Mid, and ADC/Support bot. Damn those were fun times.) > > I think you are just over-reacting and failing to realize that they wouldn&#x27;t just remove Flash and then do nothing else - they would remove Flash AND tweak and balance the game so that it was fun without it. At least, that&#x27;s what smart people would do - I can&#x27;t say I always think of Riot as being smart people. > > > I think the only thing Riot Games has ever done that made me say &quot;Wow that is BRILLIANT&quot; is put in tons of money and time into R&amp;D to combat toxicity, creating things like the Tribunal and studying how pre-game text effects behavior. Upvoted you, until I hit the bullshit about Flash. No other moba is nearly as successful as League. So this comparison is pointless. Flash makes the game fun and adds a lot to it. It makes it faster pace and better. And Riot knows it is almost mandatory on all roles and champions.
> [{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00370000000000000001,timestamp=2016-08-25T04:23:11.494+0000) > > Upvoted you, until I hit the bullshit about Flash. No other moba is nearly as successful as League. So this comparison is pointless. Flash makes the game fun and adds a lot to it. It makes it faster pace and better. And Riot knows it is almost mandatory on all roles and champions. That wasn't really the point of the post though, it was just tacked on because I like to remind people about the Cancerous Game Design known as Flash.
: > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0038000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T03:37:27.148+0000) > > More effort, but not insurmountably so. It wouldn&#x27;t require moving bloody mountains just to make alternative models for two different regions. But why make even the slightest effort for what is basically a non-issue? > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0038000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T03:37:27.148+0000) > > It&#x27;s not &quot;the Chinese&quot; and it&#x27;s not a conspiracy. Riot being &quot;under Chinese control&quot; isn&#x27;t some tinfoil hat conspiracy theory, it&#x27;s a legal fact that Tencent BOUGHT Riot Games. Tencent bought Riot Games and has remained hands-off since. Name any game design decision that can be reliably traced back to them. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0038000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T03:37:27.148+0000) > > I personally struggle to name any taboo in Western art aside from nudity. Male nudity is definitely a major taboo, cursing in media is also one that only recently got chipped at. Drug and substance usage are also a major taboo rooted in puritanical culture that you sort of mentioned. Just because you personally cannot imagine such taboos does not mean they do not exist. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0038000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T03:37:27.148+0000) > > And I&#x27;ve said multiple times, I&#x27;m not suggesting Riot refuse to do business with China - I am suggesting they shouldn&#x27;t let the fact that they DO change how they treat their NON-Chinese customers. So... Riot treats non-Chinese customers differently? How? > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0038000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T03:37:27.148+0000) > > I&#x27;m not the only person in the world who thinks skeletons are cool. I should be allowed to have my skeletons and the Chinese should be allowed to have their non-skeleton alternative. Sure, you can have your skeletons, but why in League? Are you really entitled to skeletons in League of Legends? > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0038000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T03:37:27.148+0000) > > If you are serving a buffet to a wide range of people, you shouldn&#x27;t take away all the meat just because a bunch of vegetarians are going to attend. If you are serving the exact same dish to literally everyone in the buffet, then yes, you should. If you really want to take this analogy further, you're basically asking the caterer to make a different dish just for you because you think you deserve to be free of the clutches of the people on the other side of the table. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0038000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T03:37:27.148+0000) > > Do you really think I&#x27;m the only person in the entire world who liked Yorick&#x27;s old appearance? Really? You are perhaps not the only one, but you are also definitely in the minority, as can be evidenced just by this thread. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0038000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T03:37:27.148+0000) > > Considering that the Lich, the Living Tree and the Hunched Tombstone Monk all USED to have unique color schemes and aesthetics, which have since been changed to Black-and-Blue with Blue-Ghostly-Energy-Effects ... yes, it all kind of looks the same now. The only difference between then and now is that Yorick used to have more green and brown. Karthus kept his black-and-red priestly outfit, and Maokai kept his greens and browns, with the only major color change being one from purple to blue. They also retained their silhouette and style, with Yorick showing the largest changes and still remaining true to his old self (and, even then, there were very good reasons to depart from his old style, which Riot and many players listed). A more consistent color palette does not identical champions make.
> [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T04:07:19.647+0000) > So... Riot treats non-Chinese customers differently? How? By only allowing us to have content which is first deemed appropriate for their Chinese customers? Essentially forcing us to abide by taboos and rules which have no relevance to us. > Sure, you can have your skeletons, but why in League? Are you really entitled to skeletons in League of Legends? Yes. We are all entitled to skeletons. Because skeletons are cool and many of us don't reside in a country where skeletons are taboo. > If you are serving the exact same dish to literally everyone in the buffet, then yes, you should. If you really want to take this analogy further, you&#x27;re basically asking the caterer to make a different dish just for you because you think you deserve to be free of the clutches of the people on the other side of the table. It's a buffet, people choose their own dish. Much like how players in League choose what champion they want to play. I'm asking the caterer not to take my dish away just because some of the other guests don't like my food. > You are perhaps not the only one, but you are also definitely in the minority, as can be evidenced just by this thread. Being in the minority isn't the same thing as being irrelevant. Yorick is ONE Champion. He shouldn't appeal to everyone. That's the entire point of having a diverse roster - so that all kinds of different people find something that appeals to them. You don't want to play an ugly champion? That's fine! You can play one of the other 100 Champions that aren't ugly. > The only difference between then and now is that Yorick used to have more green and brown. Karthus kept his black-and-red priestly outfit, and Maokai kept his greens and browns, with the only major color change being one from purple to blue. They also retained their silhouette and style, with Yorick showing the largest changes and still remaining true to his old self (and, even then, there were very good reasons to depart from his old style, which Riot and many players listed). A more consistent color palette does not identical champions make. Karthus hardly has the same silhouette or color scheme - he used to be almost fat with that giant robe, now he appears much more slender. His particles used to all be reddish-purple (to match his robes), but were changed to Shadow Isles Blue in the update. The same color as Yorick's new spell effects. Which conveniently matches the general aesthetic of Hecarim, Kalista, and Thresh. Maokai used to have much brighter greens infused with some purple magic sparkles, but those were all dropped in favor of a dull swamp green with tinges of blue, which all seem to carry aesthetic of "evil mist" instead of "enchanted magical nature". Does this make them all the same champion? Obviously not. But it took an interesting, wide array of aesthetics and dilutes them all down into something much less interesting due to it's sameness.
: Suggestion: team chat during load screen
I mean it's not a bad idea but I think it would be hard to implement. The fact that the actual game is a different program from the initial client has always been a problem, and the loading screen is tricky because it's the transition point between those two programs.
: > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=002a00000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-08-25T03:11:44.069+0000) > > Ah yes, the old &quot;You have a low rating in ranked so your opinion doesn&#x27;t matter&quot; excuse. That&#x27;s a classic. > > Careful though, the more frequently you use that excuse, the faster you let everyone know you&#x27;re a douche. I'm bringing up your rank in an attempt to make you realize that you're spewing bullshit because you lack basic game knowledge. So, either you can realize that you're spewing bullshit, or take offense to it. Pick one.
> [{quoted}](name=Over lmmortal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=002a000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T03:18:33.231+0000) > > I&#x27;m bringing up your rank in an attempt to make you realize that you&#x27;re spewing bullshit because you lack basic game knowledge. It's a well documented scientific fact that a person's game knowledge is directly tied to their rank. Nothing else matters.
: > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00370000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T02:45:43.266+0000) > > I suppose we&#x27;ll never know, because Riot will never have the courage to test what would happen without Flash. Or maybe they did, and it simply didn't work (they also actually did in Alpha and, surprise surprise, it didn't work, at least not as well as with Flash). I agree that Riot should experiment more on the PBE, even with changes they suspect wouldn't work, but I don't think this is really a controversial enough issue to warrant immediate action. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00370000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T02:45:43.266+0000) > > Don&#x27;t put it past them to accidentally leave dumb or broken things in their game. Urgot has been left abandoned on the back burner for ... 5 years? Or is it 6? Yes, because reworking a champion properly is _so_ easy. We are literally discussing this on a thread about a similarly old champion who has emerged from a years-long process of overhauling, after three other champions received similarly massive work in the space of two years. I highly doubt leaving Urgot in his current state is "accidental" (not that they want to deliberately leave him broken for any longer than he needs to be), and he did receive work a little while ago that significantly improved him without making him egregious to play against. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00370000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T02:45:43.266+0000) > > Flash is picked by EVERY PLAYER in EVERY COMPETITIVE GAME, and amongst the casual population is used by 96% of ALL PLAYERS ... but if Riot ever mentions it they will still claim it&#x27;s &quot;optional&quot;. So? Also, Riot mentioned on several occasions that it was pretty intentional to leave Flash as is, for the same reasons I mentioned above, and are okay with it being in its mandatory state because it's ultimately great for the game. Your whole tangent about Riot somehow lying about the status of Flash goes against reality.
> [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003700000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T03:20:50.335+0000) > Riot mentioned on several occasions that it was pretty intentional to leave Flash as is, for the same reasons I mentioned above, and are okay with it being in its mandatory state because it&#x27;s ultimately great for the game. Your whole tangent about Riot somehow lying about the status of Flash goes against reality. It's entirely possible that Riot _believes_ Flash is necessary for the game. Personally I think the fact that there is tons of other successful MOBAs which don't have Flash disproves that.
: > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T02:34:46.445+0000) > > Seems to be working just fine for Dota and other games. It is, nonetheless, more effort. Riot's own gore-less undead are also working "just fine", and yet here we are. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T02:34:46.445+0000) > > It&#x27;s not racist for me to say I don&#x27;t think everyone in the world should be denied something cool because one group of people finds it offensive, especially when the solution is so simple. Perhaps not, but it is racist to just accuse the Chinese of conspiring to ruin your fun and exerting tyranny over a game that isn't actually under Chinese control, simply because Riot also happens to cater to Chinese customers. China-baiting is pretty common in video game communities (and even out of them), and usually tends to revolve around baseless conspiratorial accusations and a fundamental misunderstanding of the impact specific parent companies have on specific game developers. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T02:34:46.445+0000) > > If you follow Riot&#x27;s example, you get ONE product which one group finds acceptable and others dislike. Sure, if by "one group" you mean the vast majority of the game's playerbase, including non-Chinese players, and by "others" you mean the very few people such as yourself who somehow hold the game's absence of bones as an indication of creeping yellow peril. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T02:34:46.445+0000) > > And let&#x27;s be realistic: the reason game companies kowtow (teehee, racism) to Chinese taboos isn&#x27;t because the Chinese PEOPLE demand it, it&#x27;s because their GOVERNMENT demands it. A government which is widely known to be oppressive, full of sh*t, and not very in touch with what their citizens actually want. First off, that's not entirely true, as bones are still a cultural taboo (and, let's face it, Western art and design is itself completely defined around its own taboos, so this is by no means purely a Chinese issue), and second, assuming that this is a pure attempt to appease the Chinese government, what is there to do about it? A huge part of Riot's playerbase is in China, and it would be tremendously stupid to risk that market just to stick it to their state. Showing bones isn't going to do anything to change the Chinese government, and far bigger companies that have tried to assert their own rules over the state's -- Google, for example -- have lost. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T02:34:46.445+0000) > > It&#x27;s certainly a more coherent and consistent look, but it robbed us of yet another ugly monster. No, it's robbed _you_ of _your_ ugly monster. The consistent issue with your posts is that you take your own viewpoint, which is ultimately couched in your own opinion and your own subjective appreciation of a champion (which is fine, since all video game enjoyment is subjective and valuable), and try to present it as some kind of universal fact. I think Yorick's new look is fantastic, but I don't think my opinion is somehow more truthful than yours purely because it's mine. > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T02:34:46.445+0000) > > Also, all these Shadow Isles champions are starting to blend together and it&#x27;s kind of becoming a bit boring. > They&#x27;re all black and blue with mist and shadows. At least the Demacians and Noxians and Ionians have more variation. Yes, I'm sure a horseman, a hoplite, a lich priest, a treant, a chain-dreadlocked warden, a spider, and a hunched tombstone monk all look the same to you. Because they're black and blue, with mist and shadows, as champions of the _Shadow Isles_ who are all related in some way to the _Black Mist_.
> [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003800000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T03:13:11.798+0000) > > It is, nonetheless, more effort. Riot&#x27;s own gore-less undead are also working &quot;just fine&quot;, and yet here we are. More effort, but not insurmountably so. It wouldn't require moving bloody mountains just to make alternative models for two different regions. > Perhaps not, but it is racist to just accuse the Chinese of conspiring to ruin your fun and exerting tyranny over a game that isn&#x27;t actually under Chinese control, simply because Riot also happens to cater to Chinese customers. China-baiting is pretty common in video game communities (and even out of them), and usually tends to revolve around baseless conspiratorial accusations and a fundamental misunderstanding of the impact specific parent companies have on specific game developers. It's not "the Chinese" and it's not a conspiracy. Riot being "under Chinese control" isn't some tinfoil hat conspiracy theory, it's a legal fact that Tencent BOUGHT Riot Games. > First off, that&#x27;s not entirely true, as bones are still a cultural taboo (and, let&#x27;s face it, Western art and design is itself completely defined around its own taboos, so this is by no means purely a Chinese issue), and second, assuming that this is a pure attempt to appease the Chinese government, what is there to do about it? A huge part of Riot&#x27;s playerbase is in China, and it would be tremendously stupid to risk that market just to stick it to their state. Showing bones isn&#x27;t going to do anything to change the Chinese government, and far bigger companies that have tried to assert their own rules over the states&#x27; -- Google, for example -- have lost. I personally struggle to name any taboo in Western art aside from nudity. And I've said multiple times, I'm not suggesting Riot refuse to do business with China - I am suggesting they shouldn't let the fact that they DO change how they treat their NON-Chinese customers. I'm not the only person in the world who thinks skeletons are cool. I should be allowed to have my skeletons and the Chinese should be allowed to have their non-skeleton alternative. Again, LOOK at Dota's Low Violence mode. The amount of things they needed to change to in order to appease the Chinese censors is laughably small. Turn all the blood black and cover all the bones with something - that's all they did. If you are serving a buffet to a wide range of people, you shouldn't take away all the meat just because a bunch of vegetarians are going to attend. > No, it&#x27;s robbed _you_ of _your_ ugly monster. The consistent issue with your posts is that you take your own viewpoint, which is ultimately couched in your own opinion and your own subjective appreciation of a champion (which is fine, since all video game enjoyment is subjective and valuable), and try to present it as some kind of universal fact. I think Yorick&#x27;s new look is fantastic, but I don&#x27;t think my opinion is somehow more truthful than yours purely because it&#x27;s mine. Do you really think I'm the only person in the entire world who liked Yorick's old appearance? Really? > Yes, I&#x27;m sure a horseman, a hoplite, a lich priest, a living tree, a chain-dreadlocked warden, a spider, and a hunched tombstone monk all look the same to you. Because they&#x27;re black and blue, with mist and shadows, as champions of the _Shadow Isles_ who are all related in some way to the _Black Mist_. Considering that the Lich, the Living Tree and the Hunched Tombstone Monk all USED to have unique color schemes and aesthetics, which have since been changed to Black-and-Blue with Blue-Ghostly-Energy-Effects ... yes, it all kind of looks the same now.
: > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=002a000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T02:51:03.997+0000) > > I swear I&#x27;ve heard this excuse so many times it&#x27;s almost starting to make me vomit every time I read it. Like you have convinced yourself that Riot would be incapable of making further changes to balance the game AFTER they removed Flash. > > The world isn&#x27;t going to collapse just because something changed. People will adapt. Further changes will be made. Stop panicking and try to actually apply some logic. > > If Flash was removed and Kassadin became a monster because he is so mobile ... guess what, there&#x27;s actually something that can be done about that: you nerf his damage and/or utility. LE GASP! IT&#x27;S MAGIC! Oh, you're bronze. You have little game knowledge. Your opinion would not matter whatsoever on the subject of removing flash. You don't understand the game on a basic level. So, your opinion is misguided because of that lack of game knowledge. If you're going to try and give input on something which has to do with game balance, then prove you have a single clue as to what you're talking about.
> [{quoted}](name=Over lmmortal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=002a0000000000000001,timestamp=2016-08-25T03:08:34.462+0000) > > Oh, you&#x27;re bronze. You have little game knowledge. Your opinion would not matter whatsoever on the subject of removing flash. You don&#x27;t understand the game on a basic level. So, your opinion is misguided because of that lack of game knowledge. If you&#x27;re going to try and give input on something which has to do with game balance, then prove you have a single clue as to what you&#x27;re talking about. Ah yes, the old "You have a low rating in ranked so your opinion doesn't matter" excuse. That's a classic. Careful though, the more frequently you use that excuse, the faster you let everyone know you're an arse.
: But it wasn't a good ugly. Not an ugly that makes you want to play the guy or an ugly that gives you nightmares. It was just a poorly designed ugly. And looking like Igor being the point is one of the reasons he needed to be changed. His look, story, and abilities didn't match each other in a good way. Horseman themed names scotch-taped onto ghosts wielded by a grave-digging hunchback didn't make for a completed character. He was more like a hodgepodge of some medocre unrelated ideas that somehow made it through the design phase.
> [{quoted}](name=DeceasedL0ved0ne,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003b00000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T02:59:35.232+0000) > > But it wasn&#x27;t a good ugly. Not an ugly that makes you want to play the guy or an ugly that gives you nightmares. It was just a poorly designed ugly. > > And looking like Igor being the point is one of the reasons he needed to be changed. His look, story, and abilities didn&#x27;t match each other in a good way. Horseman themed names scotch-taped onto ghosts wielded by a grave-digging hunchback didn&#x27;t make for a completed character. He was more like a hodgepodge of some medocre unrelated ideas that somehow made it through the design phase. I was a big fan of the ugly hunchback gravedigger aesthetic. They could easily have reworked his lore and abilities to match that, instead of overhauling him into another black-and-blue-with-shadows-and-mist Shadow Isles champion who is conveniently more friendly to Chinese censorship. I already explained in another post how they could take the EXACT kit from this rework and translate it to fit his old aesthetic. Passive - Dead bodies marked by headstones instead of mist Q - Unchanged, whack people with the shovel W - A bunch of ghoul hands burst from the ground in a circle E - Fling dirt with his shovel R - Dig up a giant ghoul-thing that sucks life essence like Fiddlesticks
: Well, any champ that currently runs ghost would become insanely overpowered. The game would slow to a crawl, as without flash risky plays would be horribly ill-advised. Any champ that has a lot of built-in mobility would become impossible to deal with (ie kass, lb, etc) as they effectively have a free flash built into their kits. The game is created around flash, and removing it would be horrible for game health.
> [{quoted}](name=MonkeyMadness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=002a00000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T02:42:04.479+0000) > > The game is created around flash, and removing it would be horrible for game health. I swear I've heard this excuse so many times it's almost starting to make me vomit every time I read it. Like you have convinced yourself that Riot would be incapable of making further changes to balance the game AFTER they removed Flash. The world isn't going to collapse just because something changed. People will adapt. Further changes will be made. Stop panicking and try to actually apply some logic. If Flash was removed and Kassadin became a monster because he is so mobile ... guess what, there's actually something that can be done about that: you nerf his damage and/or utility. LE GASP! IT'S MAGIC!
: I don't think an item that takes up an entire slot for a single effect, cannot exist in the phase of the game where it could be the most fun, and cannot be used in a manner that would allow players to recover when behind really counts as "well-balanced" or "well-implemented", and seeing how LoL started out as a spiritual successor to DotA, it's pretty clear that Riot's very first developers implemented Flash precisely to remedy that (there was a boot item in Alpha that was pretty much a copy of Blink Dagger, but it and other items got changed to summoner spells specifically because it improved the game's feel and pace by a ton). If you really want to continue arguing about how a universally available escape is somehow bad for the game, then we might just have to agree to disagree, but objectively there is a good reason why Flash has remained in its current state in the game. Put another way, I think it makes a lot more sense for Riot to keep Flash as is because they've measured that it is objectively healthier for the game, than it is to assume that they'd deliberately keep a supposedly broken spell in the game purely because they play favorites with arbitrary game features or whatever.
> [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0037000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T02:24:43.394+0000) > > I don&#x27;t think an item that takes up an entire slot for a single effect, cannot exist in the phase of the game where it could be the most fun, and cannot be used in a manner that would allow players to recover when behind really counts as &quot;well-balanced&quot; or &quot;well-implemented&quot;, and seeing how LoL started out as a spiritual successor to DotA, it&#x27;s pretty clear that Riot&#x27;s very first developers implemented Flash precisely to remedy that (there was a boot item in Alpha that was pretty much a copy of Blink Dagger, but it and other items got changed to summoner spells specifically because it improved the game&#x27;s feel and pace by a ton). If you really want to continue arguing about how a universally available escape is somehow bad for the game, then we might just have to agree to disagree, but objectively there is a good reason why Flash has remained in its current state in the game. Put another way, I think it makes a lot more sense for Riot to keep Flash as is because they&#x27;ve measured that it is objectively healthier for the game, than it is to assume that they&#x27;d deliberately keep a supposedly broken spell in the game purely because they play favorites with arbitrary game features or whatever. I suppose we'll never know, because Riot will never have the courage to test what would happen without Flash. Don't put it past them to accidentally leave dumb or broken things in their game. Urgot has been left abandoned on the back burner for ... 5 years? Or is it 6? Flash is picked by EVERY PLAYER in EVERY COMPETITIVE GAME, and amongst the casual population is used by 96% of ALL PLAYERS ... but if Riot ever mentions it they will still claim it's "optional". Sure Riot, totally optional, it's just 100x more useful than every single other option on the table (of which there is less than 12), but yeah, totally not mandatory. Compare it to Recall, which is given to everyone. If most people were forced to either play a game without using Recall or without using Flash, I'm willing to bet most people would rather give up Recall. But everyone is given Recall by default, while being told Flash is "optional".
: Let's reverse this discussion for a second -- you'd rather have Riot put work into two separate models for a whole set of champions, implement stuff that would risk offending a large portion of their playerbase, and generally introduce a lot of unnecessary complication to their work... just because you, Korica Riftaxe, want to see bones? You keep blaming Riot's "Chinese Overlords" for influencing stylistic decisions you personally dislike, but really the only one with a problem here is you, and your specific tastes. More generally, how is you asking for gore any different from Chinese players asking for no gore? Why not appreciate Riot's take on the undead as a cool, novel art direction in its own right, instead of resorting to racist dog-whistling just because you didn't get the stuff you personally wanted? Beyond this, old Yorick didn't really make sense whether or not he dug up skeletons -- in the end, there was no reason given as to why he was raising the dead, or how he could do so in the first place, and there was no real depth to his character. Meanwhile, just his new introduction makes a lot of things clear -- he's a part of an order of monks tasked with burying the dead, so it makes sense that he fights with a shovel and buries people, but he's also on a mission to build an undead army to defeat the lords of the Shadow Isles, which is why he raises the dead too. He's got many of the same elements as old Yorick -- he's a gravedigger and a necromancer, except he's also got an actual story to tell, and a proper personality.
> [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0038000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T02:16:40.789+0000) > > Let&#x27;s reverse this discussion for a second -- you&#x27;d rather have Riot put work into two separate models for a whole set of champions, implement stuff that would risk offending a large portion of their playerbase, and generally introduce a lot of unnecessary complication to their work... just because you, Korica Riftaxe, want to see bones? You keep blaming Riot&#x27;s &quot;Chinese Overlords&quot; for influencing stylistic decisions you personally dislike, but really the only one with a problem here is you, and your specific tastes. More generally, how is you asking for gore any different from Chinese players asking for no gore? Why not appreciate Riot&#x27;s take on the undead as a cool, novel art direction in its own right, instead of resorting to racist dog-whistling just because you didn&#x27;t get the stuff you personally wanted? Seems to be working just fine for Dota and other games. I am absolutely not the only person on this planet that thinks skeletons and blood are cool. It's not racist for me to say I don't think everyone in the world should be denied something cool because one group of people finds it offensive, especially when the solution is so simple. If you follow Riot's example, you get ONE product which one group finds acceptable and others dislike. If you follow Dota's example, you get TWO products which both grounds of people enjoy. And let's be realistic: the reason game companies kowtow (teehee, racism) to Chinese taboos isn't because the Chinese PEOPLE demand it, it's because their GOVERNMENT demands it. A government which is widely known to be oppressive, full of sh*t, and not very in touch with what their citizens actually want. > > Beyond this, old Yorick didn&#x27;t really make sense whether or not he dug up skeletons -- in the end, there was no reason given as to why he was raising the dead, or how he could do so in the first place, and there was no real depth to his character. Meanwhile, just his new introduction makes a lot of things clear -- he&#x27;s a part of an order of monks tasked with burying the dead, so it makes sense that he fights with a shovel and buries people, but he&#x27;s also on a mission to build an undead army to defeat the lords of the Shadow Isles, which is why he raises the dead too. He&#x27;s got many of the same elements as old Yorick -- he&#x27;s a gravedigger and a necromancer, except he&#x27;s also got an actual story to tell, and a proper personality. It's certainly a more coherent and consistent look, but it robbed us of yet another ugly monster. Also, all these Shadow Isles champions are starting to blend together and it's kind of becoming a bit boring. They're all black and blue with mist and shadows. At least the Demacians and Noxians and Ionians have more variation.
: > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0037000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T01:51:09.143+0000) > > I think you are just over-reacting > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0037000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T01:51:09.143+0000) > > At least, that&#x27;s what smart people would do - I can&#x27;t say I always think of Riot as being smart people. Well then, let me know how you're doing once you plop out that multi-million dollar competitive multiplayer video game, since apparently that's not something that requires smart people to accomplish. It is also ironic that you would accuse me of overreacting when you are literally insulting the intelligence of Riot's developers for implementing features you personally dislike, in spite of their overwhelming popularity. Putting aside this massive dose of Dunning-Kruger, I also think the above fails to appreciate that MOBAs tend to be structured differently -- Heroes of the Storm, for example, has simplified experience and leveling mechanics that essentially skip the laning phase altogether and start matches at the equivalent of League's mid game, where everyone gets to move around with some degree of freedom and not remain beholden to one lane. Dota and Dota 2 have Blink Dagger, which is essentially Flash in item form, and just as mandatory there as the spell is in League, though the laning phase there is arguably far more extended, less interesting and more snowbally there, at least in my opinion. League chose a different structure, one that essentially needs Flash to fully work, and I don't think that's a bad thing, since the spell is objectively a massive positive influence (in part because a get-out-of-jail-free card allows for generally more interesting and adventurous play, also because that "get-out-of-jail-free" card comes with a five-minute cooldown, and so isn't all that free).
> [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00370000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T02:03:51.157+0000) Dota and Dota 2 have Blink Dagger, which is essentially Flash in item form, and just as mandatory there as the spell is in League Except that ... 1) Blink Dagger can't be used to escape, only to engage, because it goes on cooldown when you take damage. 2) You can't start the game with it, because it costs tons of gold 3) It takes a freaking item slot, and gives you NO STATS, which is a huge tradeoff. On many Heroes it's a BAD IDEA to buy Blink Dagger. The same cannot be said of Flash. 4) It's not mandatory for every single player, and is only frequently purchased by about 33% of the Hero pool Flash _wishes_ it was as well-balanced and well-implemented as Blink Dagger.
: I agree with this. I think the point Riot was trying to make in that post wasn't that Yorick was unpopular because he was ugly (I mean, his old model and splash are both horrible, and that's bad, but "ugly" champions like Sion, Rek'Sai and Gragas are all popular, and not just for competitive reasons), but that his niche was so uninteresting that he failed to attract the playerbase he truly deserved. Generally, players initially gravitate towards a champion because they appeal to a certain fantasy of theirs, and "gravedigging necromancer monk" is a significantly more interesting fantasy than "gravedigger who somehow digs up ghouls". I also disagree with the criticism of Riot's aesthetic choices -- sure, I think removing Graves's cigar was silly, and it's about high time he got it back, particularly since other far more family-friendly games (e.g. Overwatch) have featured characters who smoke, but the Shadow Isles' undead having less directly corpse-like features has been going on for a very long time (Lucian's splash already shows undead with lamprey-like maws and a distinct lack of gore). Granted, that was in part a compromise to avoid censorship abroad (or, at least, having to do separate models every time a new undead champion gets released, a la Dota 2 Low Violence mode), but it also allowed for a fresh, interesting take on the undead that captures the idea of a mindless, almost formless horde, surging from the Black Mist, better than the traditional guts-and-bones look.
> [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00380000,timestamp=2016-08-25T01:41:16.486+0000) Generally, players initially gravitate towards a champion because they appeal to a certain fantasy of theirs, and &quot;gravedigging necromancer monk&quot; is a significantly more interesting fantasy than &quot;gravedigger who somehow digs up ghouls&quot;. I'm going to guess it probably made sense in the very early design phase, when he probably dug up skeletons. But somewhere along the way, a higher-up said "No, we can't have skeletons, that'll anger our Chinese Overlords" so they were replaced with ghouls, which didn't really make sense. People like to say it saves time to just make a Chinese-friendly model instead of having two separate versions, but has anyone actually bothered to LOOK at Dota's "Low Violence" mode for China? Google "Dota Low Violence" and you will find the Wiki page which literally shows all differences - the changes are low in number and very paltry. Any time they have a character with bones they just cover their model in armor and call it good. Players from EVERY SINGLE OTHER COUNTRY shouldn't be denied something cool just because the dictatorial Chinese government doesn't like it. F**k the Chinese government. Let the rest of us have cool stuff, and they can have an alternate version that suits their censorship.
: Doesn't matter what Riot does, everyone complains regardless, they might as well just abandon the game since no one is ever happy. I think new yorick looks badass, the old one looks like igor.
> [{quoted}](name=9 Tailed Waifu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003b,timestamp=2016-08-25T01:47:17.671+0000) > I think new yorick looks badass, the old one looks like igor. Yeah, he did. THAT WAS THE ENTIRE POINT.
: It also prevents the laning phase from being a mire of ultra-safe, passive farming, where the slightest mistake would be literally punishable by death because the lack of a universally available escape would prevent all but the most mobile of champions from surviving unfavorable encounters, thereby creating a game even more dependent on in-kit gapclosers. I'm not entirely happy that Flash is practically mandatory on most champions, at a relative cost in summoner spell diversity, but all in all it's one of the greatest and most secretly brilliant features this game was created with.
> [{quoted}](name=Teridax68,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003700000000,timestamp=2016-08-25T01:31:02.666+0000) > > It also prevents the laning phase from being a mire of ultra-safe, passive farming, where the slightest mistake would be literally punishable by death because the lack of a universally available escape would prevent all but the most mobile of champions from surviving unfavorable encounters, thereby creating a game even more dependent on in-kit gapclosers. I&#x27;m not entirely happy that Flash is practically mandatory on most champions, at a relative cost in summoner spell diversity, but all in all it&#x27;s one of the greatest and most secretly brilliant features this game was created with. Strange, because no other MOBA has Flash, and I wouldn't describe all other MOBAs laning phase as "a mire of ultra-safe, passive farming, where the slightest mistake would be literally punishable by death because the lack of a universally available escape" In fact, I find LoL's laning phase to be incredibly boring compared to almost any other MOBA I have played. At least, it is now-a-days. It used to be fun, back in 2010, before the first Dreamhack spawned "the meta" which we have been stuck with for the last 6 years. (Fun fact: There used to be a time when every single team wasn't composed of a Tanky Solotop, Ganker Junker, AP Mid, and ADC/Support bot. Damn those were fun times.) I think you are just over-reacting and failing to realize that they wouldn't just remove Flash and then do nothing else - they would remove Flash AND tweak and balance the game so that it was fun without it. At least, that's what smart people would do - I can't say I always think of Riot as being smart people. I think the only thing Riot Games has ever done that made me say "Wow that is BRILLIANT" is put in tons of money and time into R&D to combat toxicity, creating things like the Tribunal and studying how pre-game text effects behavior.
: > for fear of angering your Chinese Overlords No this is actually huge. People don't realize how much Tencent _owns_ Riot
> [{quoted}](name=9001Teemos,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2016-08-25T00:54:25.307+0000) > > No this is actually huge. People don&#x27;t realize how much Tencent _owns_ Riot I am aware Tencent literally OWNS Riot, since they actually BOUGHT them. I just like to make fun of them for it, because they seem to have a policy of publicly denying how much it has effected their design choices.
shalexade (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Korica Riftaxe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-08-24T10:38:33.918+0000) > > It says in the rework post that you thought the main reason Yorick was underplayed was because he was an ugly gravedigger, really? Did you lose the data showing his huge popularity on release, that he was considered a top Pick/Ban in Ranked, until he got nerfed into the ground because his kit was too hard to balance? Got this far and upvoted. Solid point, buried in fact. Got to the end though- took the upvote back. Sorry.
> [{quoted}](name=shalexade,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0037,timestamp=2016-08-25T00:33:32.324+0000) > > Got this far and upvoted. > > Solid point, buried in fact. > > Got to the end though- took the upvote back. Sorry. You can hide from it all you want, but Flash is a cancer on this game. It's a mandatory pick that's supposed to be optional, gives everyone a get-out-of-fail-free-card, and pushes the entire game design toward making mobile champions because if they ever made an assassin without a gap-closer, they would be useless since everyone has Flash. And Graves deserves his cigar.
: Lol? All the cleavage and hyper-sexualized female champions and killing one another are fine and good, but corpses are over the line? Don't get me wrong, I don't have any trouble with the game. I'm just asking where you people draw the line. Oh yes, and as another mentioned, Kled curses, a lot. And Gragas drinks, a lot. But corpses man, corpses are bad, m'kay.
> [{quoted}](name=Shlack123,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=002500000002,timestamp=2016-08-25T00:04:17.563+0000) > > Lol? All the cleavage and hyper-sexualized female champions and killing one another are fine and good, but corpses are over the line? Don&#x27;t get me wrong, I don&#x27;t have any trouble with the game. I&#x27;m just asking where you people draw the line. Oh yes, and as another mentioned, Kled curses, a lot. And Gragas drinks, a lot. But corpses man, corpses are bad, m&#x27;kay. No argument from me there, I just realized a long time ago trying to fight Riot on their over-sexualization was a battle not worth fighting. They won't even acknowledge it.
Ralanr (NA)
: Congratulations, you've given Yorick a different kit and done nothing for his model or VO. Have fun explaining how this didn't happen years ago.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00300000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-24T23:59:21.637+0000) > > Congratulations, you&#x27;ve given Yorick a different kit and done nothing for his model or VO. > > Have fun explaining how this didn&#x27;t happen years ago. You can update a model without changing the entire aesthetic. Look at Tryndamere, and Soraka, and Ashe, and Heimerdinger. You got me on the voicework though, Riot is pretty garbage in that department. I'd like to think if more competent people were in charge this WOULD have happened years ago. If.
: They were called "Ugly" in reference to the over-all health of the game, not in actual reference to aesthetic appeal. However, Yorick's champion model definitely needed a rework. I can personally say I enjoy playing a champion the flows well AND looks good. It's not in Yorick's character to be some ugly grave-digger, he's meant to be a scary monster-flinging-grave-digging-man-mauling terror. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
> [{quoted}](name=Corrupt Bliss,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=00000000000100010002,timestamp=2016-08-24T23:55:26.511+0000) > > They were called &quot;Ugly&quot; in reference to the over-all health of the game, not in actual reference to aesthetic appeal. No, they weren't. I can appreciate your loyalty to Riot and assuming they meant for the best, but don't twist their words to mean something else. They meant exactly what they said.
Ralanr (NA)
: They changed his model because new animations couldn't be supported on the original.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=003000000000,timestamp=2016-08-24T23:07:48.698+0000) > > They changed his model because new animations couldn&#x27;t be supported on the original. Really? I can come up with ways to do it. Here, give me 60 seconds. His old ghouls can be the minions he rises. They can come from tombstones instead of mist. He can whack people with his shovel for Q. His W can be a bunch of ghoul hands bursting from the ground in a circle to form a wall. His E can be throwing a cloud of disease, like his Disease Ghoul, or maybe flinging grave dirt with his shovel. His Ult can be a larger ghoul that sucks the life essence from the target like Fiddle does. Damn that was hard. Either I'm smarter than their entire art department (unlikely, IronStylus is boss) or that excuse is total bollocks.
: People play Pudge not because he's fun, but because he's obnoxious, toxic, and anti-fun. He has a Blitzcrank hook with the range of a Jhin W and a double duration WW ult on a 20 second cooldown. Althought I agree they went a little too clean with Yorick's VU
> [{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2016-08-24T16:52:09.651+0000) > > People play Pudge not because he&#x27;s fun, but because he&#x27;s obnoxious, toxic, and anti-fun. He has a Blitzcrank hook with the range of a Jhin W and a double duration WW ult on a 20 second cooldown. > > Althought I agree they went a little too clean with Yorick&#x27;s VU Pudge has received plenty of balance changes in all his time. He's not toxic by a long shot, and is barely ever picked in competitive play. And yet if you look at the stats for basically any stretch of time on public games, he is THE most played character in the game. Clearly people like something.
: i have one question. why do people keep mentioning other games when this is LoL. every game has their own standards. if you dont play yorick why complain? it just means hes like a brand new champ that you might like to play. he is so old even his ability showcases havent even been changed ingame. thats how bad it was.
> [{quoted}](name=snowyfox18,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0020,timestamp=2016-08-24T18:59:07.847+0000) > > i have one question. why do people keep mentioning other games when this is LoL. > every game has their own standards. if you dont play yorick why complain? it just means hes like a brand new champ that you might like to play. > he is so old even his ability showcases havent even been changed ingame. thats how bad it was. Because other games can provide good examples to counter Riot's dumb logic? They say "Players don't like playing ugly characters!" It so happens that a very similar game features a ridiculously ugly character who is extremely popular. These two things are related.
: not gonna argue about the rework reasoning, but I do take slight offense to your 3rd paragraph. They said he doesn't exactly resurrected a corpse as it was. It's more like a mangled, corrupted beast infused with the Black Mist. Yorick rises the flesh in a twisted abomination. That and we don't exactly know what is really under a Minion's cloak >.> next, "Chinese Overlords". Yes Tencent pretty much owns Riot's butt, thus China rules will HEAVILY effect Riot going forward, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with having cultural sensitivity and abiding by another countries rules when you are trying to run a product in their area. So between having to deal the rules of the country their owners reside in, and wanting to keep the product similar world wide, we are just going to have sit back and at least try to be a bit more open minded about the mentality of other countries.
> [{quoted}](name=Lintu Puck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0024,timestamp=2016-08-24T19:09:37.344+0000) > > not gonna argue about the rework reasoning, but I do take slight offense to your 3rd paragraph. > They said he doesn&#x27;t exactly resurrected a corpse as it was. It&#x27;s more like a mangled, corrupted beast infused with the Black Mist. Yorick rises the flesh in a twisted abomination. That and we don&#x27;t exactly know what is really under a Minion&#x27;s cloak &gt;.&gt; > next, &quot;Chinese Overlords&quot;. Yes Tencent pretty much owns Riot&#x27;s butt, thus China rules will HEAVILY effect Riot going forward, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with having cultural sensitivity and abiding by another countries rules when you are trying to run a product in their area. So between having to deal the rules of the country their owners reside in, and wanting to keep the product similar world wide, we are just going to have sit back and at least try to be a bit more open minded about the mentality of other countries. Weird, because Doter Two seems to be pretty popular in China and they haven't removed all skeletons from the game. They just give them alternative regional skins. See, instead of taking a cool concept and taking it away from EVERYONE because one particular group doesn't like it, they let everyone else have it and give that one offended person a different version they don't find offensive.
: Yorick was popular until they removed him from the free rotation 3 years ago. Almost no one who started playing since then buys him, because they can't try him first, and because they never see him in game because he's so unpopular. It's a vicious cycle.
Wait they actually removed him from free rotations, really? I never noticed. I thought they reserved that for stealth champions.
: >PS: Why is Flash still in this game? Because if they remove flash they will have to redesign virtually every champion and item in order to keep the game from falling into utter chaos? Other than that though I completely agree with your post. This is a classic case of Riot blaming their community for their own mistakes and telling us that WE are somehow the problem that they have to work around.
> [{quoted}](name=MonkeyMadness,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=002a,timestamp=2016-08-24T21:06:24.067+0000) > > Because if they remove flash they will have to redesign virtually every champion and item in order to keep the game from falling into utter chaos? Bring on the chaos. Giving everyone a "get-out-of-fail-free" card, claiming it's an option while it's actually mandatory, it's terrible game design. It really wouldn't be that hard to balance once it was finally gone. They just need to actually take that first step and remove the damn thing. It's been a plague on this game since it's birth.
: >PS: Why is Flash still in this game? I think we should just give Flash to all champions for free (like recall). That way each game players can actually choose 2 summoners as was intended, instead of just choosing 1 and flash.
> [{quoted}](name=redfeenix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=002b,timestamp=2016-08-24T21:31:20.080+0000) > > I think we should just give Flash to all champions for free (like recall). That way each game players can actually choose 2 summoners as was intended, instead of just choosing 1 and flash. Or they could just remove Flash, because it's terrible game design, and then players could pick any 2 Summoners they want because nothing is as mandatory as Flash.
: riot made the game, and yorick. he is what they say he is, you are what they say you are. (banned or not banned.) there is much you dont understand, about the world.
> [{quoted}](name=Ireliavence,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=002f,timestamp=2016-08-24T22:24:48.254+0000) > > riot made the game, and yorick. > > he is what they say he is, you are what they say you are. (banned or not banned.) > > there is much you dont understand, about the world. Oh right, I forgot, people aren't allowed to have opinions. Game companies HATE when their players give feedback. Sorry sir.
W Flynn (NA)
: There is a massive difference between "ugly" and a model from several years ago when the game was not near as well funded as it is now. A "pretty" character can have an ugly model. IE, release annie or release ashe would be considered "pretty" characters, but had very ugly models. Calling a company "cowardly" for trying to appeal to large audiences and stay fairly family friendly, is just idiocracy. In case you haven't noticed as well, they have made a massive step recently, introducing swearing into their game. They are making massive steps towards being less pg, and this is frankly risking dropping the family audience, which may not be large, but is an audience. The fact that you criticize their artstyle on new Yorick for not showing brutal gore, but the spell is a wall of corpses. Its an art decision to have them look like that, I think it transcends "angering your Chinese Overlords". Even if they did do it purely to stand better in China, thats nothing wrong considering they are majorly owned by a chinese company. I doubt that the game would have nearly as large of an audience as they do now if they still had the same level of graphics as they did when yorick was released.
> [{quoted}](name=FreezeDragon105,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=0030,timestamp=2016-08-24T22:35:43.531+0000) > > There is a massive difference between &quot;ugly&quot; and a model from several years ago when the game was not near as well funded as it is now. A &quot;pretty&quot; character can have an ugly model. IE, release annie or release ashe would be considered &quot;pretty&quot; characters, but had very ugly models. Yorick's old model was absolutely not on the same level of poor quality as any of the original 40, like Old Soraka or Old Taric. They didn't change him because his model was not up to par on quality, they changed him because they thought his "ugly gravedigger" aesthetic was causing unpopuarity. Their words, not mine. They could easily take the new kit they have given him and apply it to his old model, but they didn't.
: are we really complaining about this rework? They kept the creepy/dark/grimdark look for him (it's just thematically appropriate instead of "oooh, creature from the deep!") and they kept the ghouls/summons while giving him more to do than just "every ability works the same way but summons a slightly different ghoul." This rework is so amazing and you're gonna find a couple of weird little visual things to complain about? HE LOOKS LIKE A GIANT TOMBSTONE WHILE HE'S WALKING AROUND. HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY BE COMPLAINING ABOUT HIS DESIGN.
> [{quoted}](name=Battlecast Janna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uvGipO09,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2016-08-24T17:39:51.959+0000) > > HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY BE COMPLAINING ABOUT HIS DESIGN. Did you actually read the post? It's not about the redesign of one character, it's about Riot's entire philosophy toward any character they think is ugly.
: "because he was an ugly gravedigger," Can people not take a joke now ? Obviously they know he had multiple problems IT'S WHY THEY REWORKED HIM. They just made a joke on his appearance because, let's be honest, he's an ugly gravedigger lol. Let jokes be jokes, don't take them as serious problems.
They have said the exact same thing about multiple different characters. They seem to ACTUALLY BELIEVE that players don't enjoy playing ugly characters, and are slowly removing them from the game because of that belief. It's not a joke.
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Korica Riftaxe

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