: Yuumi Support
I've seen two approaches: Build like a classic support, which is mostly what you're doing, and build like a full AP mage. I've had varying degrees of success with both setups. I think the full AP option works better when you're paired with a hypercarry or someone that can scale really well with a seventh item's worth of adaptive force, while a support is better when you're not getting fed to the nines or when some utility is more necessary to make your teamfights work.
Cosnirak (NA)
: Isn't his new ult basically the old Poppy ult, which is a bad design? I haven't seen it in action, only read the description, so maybe it's somehow not awful but I'm very skeptical about it.
Poppy's old ult was supposed to be a "you and I will fight, and I have an advantage" but it rapidly turned into "I'm going to ult the support, completely ignore them, and run around invincible for eight seconds and nobody can stop me." Morde's new ult is a far better version of "you and I are going to fight now, and nobody can interfere or stop us."
: BRUH, so happy we finally got a new item, i mean it heals me sometimes and gives me ap stat :) but for some reason but for some reason i can never find my support... anyone wanna help?
Between meme Jhin and meme Yuumi, we can reach HILARIOUS levels of AD!
: K/DA Tahm Kench
Well, uh. That is a thing.
Rioter Comments
Rylalei (EUNE)
: What people seem to not understand about "nerf everyone equally" is that not everyone needs equal nerfs. Ok, say we take damage down by 40% on everyone. Who will be more popular after? Same champions as now, because even tho it takes longer to kill, they still are the fastest killers. Yes, games will be longer, but that's all that will differ. No-one's gonna take Va(a)rus to deal damage since even now he seems to be unable to do damage (right now, he's considered C tier on some lists, hence why I named him, no offence to anyone). If you take away 40% of his damage as well along Lucian, Lucian will still be more popular because Varus can't kill shit while Lucian, although slower than now, is still going to be the best killer. Straight up buffing defenses does the same thing, the fastest killers will still be the ones most picked. You can't nerf everything equally or buff all defenses. You need to figure out what's actually strong because it's strong, weak because it's just trash or weak as a side effect of something else. For example, we all know Tanks are trash right now due to the amount of true damage from IE and Conqueror, (tho IE gets a change, so forget that one for now). Say we remove Conqueror for 1 patch, see how Tanks fare, will they be too strong or too still weak or just in a good spot? If Tanks are in a good spot afterwards when true damage is gone, then there's no reason to buff defensive items as it will make Tanks too oppressive, so instead of having the ADC cry "I need more defense" have him actually build something that's defense other than GA as 5th item. If tanks are still weak, then look at why and not just buff defensive items unless they need buffed. People here are "just buff all defense" or "just nerf all damage" without realizing such a change will do little to nothing. Each champion that is a problem needs addressed in a different way, hence why "nerfing damage" is not an easy task.
On the contrary, a blanket nerf like the one you're describing would completely upend the meta and break game balance into tiny pieces. Damage does not exist in a vacuum. Healing, mitigation, regeneration, buff uptimes, CC duration, etc. all factor in to balance. If you blanket reduced everybody's damage by 40% it would immediately change champion power levels. Mundo would become an unstoppable pushing machine. Soraka would be able to heal people faster than even a fully built ADC could kill them. The entire Assassin role would disappear, tanks would run around everywhere, armor penetration and champions with team-accessible shred like Kayle or Garen would become pick/ban...
Profirix (NA)
: At least it is a buff to Kog'Maw.
I'd love to try it on Kayle, too, assuming her rework doesn't make her into something entirely different.
EkyonKun (NA)
: I just played ARAM all day and didn't witness a single dodge
LP Pale Ale (EUNE)
: In Game Freezing
Seen it happen once here, too. No bugsplat, even.
: PSA to teens: Defensive driving is fucking important, so don't treat it like a joke
I'm on a motorcycle. Please, for the love of all that is holy, PUT DOWN YOUR PHONE. Yes, you drive like shit while on the phone. Yes, we can tell. No, we don't like punching the side of your car because you drifted into us. Yes, we will do it if we don't have somewhere else to go. You're operating thousands of pounds of machinery at 75 miles an hour. Act like it.
: someone care to explain how a pyke with grasp and atma's doesn't compeltely bust the game?
It actually wouldn't be that amazing on Pyke, if only because he doesn't have that large of a health pool. This is insane on someone like Darius.
: " Strategic complexity...map awareness, initial fight positioning, objective control" Every champions needs these. They're considered to be a part of basic game knowledge. I would argue that Lee being a jungler, is strategally more complex than soraka would ever be. You have to watch every skirmish happening AND plan your route accordingly.
You're right that everyone needs them, but Lee Sin's kit doesn't require him to pay attention to the details of every teamfight occurring on the opposite side of the map, because there's nothing he can do to affect them. Soraka, on the other hand, *can* affect them, and in order to play her well she needs to pay attention. If you just ult based on health bars, you risk wasting it on an ally that was doomed regardless or already safe. Ult too early in a fight and you risk scaring off their opponent or wasting the extra healing on low health targets. Ult too late, and, well, the obvious occurs. Then there's needing to compensate for the lack of tactical flexibility. Lee Sin can risk face-checking a bush or wandering into a dark jungle, because as long as he has a ward in his bags he can just ward hop over a wall and leave. Soraka has one weak slow, one very conditional root, a *very* weak movement speed buff that's dependent on landing her slow, and no dashes. Unless you're late game on a tank build, Soraka is pretty squishy, and wandering into a dark jungle risks feeding pretty hard.
Saezio (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=F8 full,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pq9gObos,comment-id=0023,timestamp=2018-05-16T21:54:05.088+0000) > > Hard to vote on this one, Soraka is easy ? REALLY ? Lets see you keep your ego in check, allowing every lane jumper to kill steal the enemy that you've reversed kited and knocked down enough to give you a fighting chance at getting maybe a kill or two during the game. Soraka has basically 2 lines of defense, either you develop her Star call (for snare) and reverse kite OR you develop her equinox for freezing in place, all the while working up and being prepared to heal team mates whom seem overly concerned with getting piles of kills, as if they have no real "team" in mind, its really all about them and getting a high kill score. > Even in bot matches I've had losers whining about me messing up their creep score, which to my knowledge doesn't account for anything in a BOT match. Hey, do the math, 3 lanes, 5 champions, and you need kills to develop skills and get gold for purchases. If your a selfish loser that just is interested in personal fame and glory only, perhaps a team game isn't for you. I see it all the time as Soraka, L.O.L. is the ONE game I play where I don't play the hero and demand all the glory, I allow others to do that, but its hard when you have the childish stomp on in, feel like they are entitled to all the minion kills, steal champion kills, not to mention the many times they leave you in a hard position to fend for yourself just so they can run off to get a kill. > It takes patience and a temperament to play Soraka well, and even if your a cleric god and save people time and time again, there is little thanks and staying alive isn't easy when RIOT has seen fit not to give her adequate ways to defend herself from champions designed to do damage. I can't count the number of champions that have a movement advantage, let alone to mention the many I can't outrun even while the champion is snared with Star call. > Its not like there is a heap of glory or gold waiting over the horizon for assist kills either. > To play Soraka well, imho, you need to grab minion kills measuredly to develop, but not too much from a decent champion you may be sharing the lane with. You need to decide if your just the 5th member of the team or if the team is going to use you for healing (which determines if you need to waste time developing heals since at the beginning you can't develop all skills), you run with the pack, keep the strongest champions healed, forewarn them when your out of mana and take your lack of deaths and the number of assist kills as your personal trophy. > Now if you call that easy, well................................ She is pretty forgiving I think especially at lower elos. And because games in low elos last centuries, soraka gets her late game wet dream of 5man teamfights. She is also pretty ok to play on the backfoot. Also very frustrating to play for the enemy and she can customize runes for both agressive lane (aery and all that) or if the enemy has like rengar zed you also have the very viable option of going guardian. Also only one skill is really important not to fk up and that is the E, which after like 3 mins in a game you have identified what the best place to use in each teamfight is and it counters many champions fundamentally. Plus it is instacast so actually missing it is pretty hard. At higher Elos she has more room to be exploited.
Soraka's interesting. Broadly speaking, complexity comes in two forms: tactical and strategic. Tactical complexity is difficulty in executing combat maneuvers as a champion. If a champion has the potential for flashy outplays (Lee Sin, Zed, Rakan, etc.) then they're probably tactically complex. Strategic complexity, on the other hand, refers to things like map awareness, initial fight positioning, objective control, and other large scale elements. A Zed playing shadow swap mind games to execute a low-health escape is tactical play. The top-lane Shen ulting the bot lane that's getting ganked is a strategic one. Tactically speaking, Soraka is about as simple as they come. She has a whopping two enemy-interacting mechanics, and they're both brain-dead simple. Her one ability interaction (Q->W HoT) is also straightforward. As such, experienced players should have no problems understanding what few subtleties there are to Soraka tactical play. On a strategic level, however, Soraka is probably one of the more complex champions around. A Soraka without map awareness is a useless (or dead) Soraka. Given Redemption and her ultimate, if she isn't pay attention to whatever skirmish is going on in another lane, she's wasting a huge part of what makes her a powerful champion. Her lack of defenses and mobility means if she isn't keeping track of where the enemy jungler and any assassins are, she's likely dead. She also needs to know when to bait a teamfight (by overhealing an ally and then serving as delicious jungler bait) and when to get the hell out of dodge. So, is Soraka simple? Well, if you mean as a teamfighting champion, absolutely. If you mean as a team member, no, not so much.
Azylin (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Krinu,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=iFKaXxLd,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-05-06T23:59:19.011+0000) > > Yes... "cinematics..." > > /cough > > Real talk, though, Nice work on the rig. I absolutely loathe doing rigging work and foist it off on other people whenever possible. > > One thing I will critique: Most animals' ears are cartilage controlled by muscles around the edge of the skull and or otherwise relatively rigid, minus some spring from the inherent flexibility of the cartilage itself. As such, it's pretty much impossible for them to droop/perk up like you've rigged them here. In most creatures, the ear doesn't move like that (it would instead rotate up and down along the side, since that's where the muscles can attach) and it wouldn't bend in the middle (all the flex would be at the base where it attaches to the skull). > > Aside from that, nice work! You're right about the ears. I see that even in cartoons such as Lilo & Stitch, the ears rotate or fold at the base only. Horse ears seem to be the reference I'm looking for, she's part unicorn after all. The bend controls remain in place though, secondary animation still happens when turning the head, nodding, or running really fast. It'll be an animator's note. Which machinima community are in that lets you get away with not rigging anything? Also yes, cinematics. I absolutely loathe the r34 animations made with game models. If they are not of horrible quality, the rigging and modelling skills are wasted on something with zero artistic value. They are also completely unnecessary, as the best hand drawn 2d pictures are always better looking than the best single frame of posed and rendered 3d game models. Full character animation is wasted on something as 1 dimensional as smut animations. Its strength lies in complicated acting animation. They could at least make a tasteful romantic animated short film, jesus.
I'm not involved in the machinima community, I do game design and engineering. That said, I work with enough artists to recognize the amount of work and frustration that goes into making a good rig, and I've done it a couple times for a college class. It's one of those areas of my field that I look at and go "wow, that's amazing, I'm really glad it's not my job." I think they feel the same way about staring at the sixteenth iteration of a design doc, but eh. I like what I do. As for the R34 side of things, I won't judge people for what they choose to do with their time, and an engineer is the last person you want judging the artistic merits of a work. I will comment, however, that Sturgeon's Law seems to apply twice for that particular group. "HURR DURR I PUT A PENIS ON IT AND THEN SLAMMED THE PELVIS CONTROL BACK AND FORTH I R ANIMOOTER"
Azylin (EUW)
: Sounds like y'alls don't like the fangs. They'll not be in the base model anymore, these will only be used in my movies for reactions to behavior that makes support players really, really mad.
What *doesn't* make support players really, really mad though? <- definitely not a half million mastery Soraka support main
Azylin (EUW)
: Soraka Remodel and Face Rig
Yes... "cinematics..." /cough Real talk, though, Nice work on the rig. I absolutely loathe doing rigging work and foist it off on other people whenever possible. One thing I will critique: Most animals' ears are cartilage controlled by muscles around the edge of the skull and or otherwise relatively rigid, minus some spring from the inherent flexibility of the cartilage itself. As such, it's pretty much impossible for them to droop/perk up like you've rigged them here. In most creatures, the ear doesn't move like that (it would instead rotate up and down along the side, since that's where the muscles can attach) and it wouldn't bend in the middle (all the flex would be at the base where it attaches to the skull). Aside from that, nice work!
: I'd rather not make Soraka build health, it just doesn't fit her as a squishy mage. Especially since this'll make her go for a Taric like tank build honestly.
Well, she'd be more of a blood bag than a tank. She simply doesn't have the item slots to build tanky. Her core support item list would likely be Sightstone, Boots, and Redemption, then a choice from the following: * Michael's Crucible * Ardent Censer * Warmog's Armor * Spirit Visage * Rod of Ages * Rylai's Crystal Scepter * Liandry's Torment She can't really afford to build tanky, and as a result she'll be vulnerable to %maxHP or %currentHP damage. So, less vulnerable to burst compared to a current pure enchanter build, but late-game Soraka tends to go for 3k HP + Warmog's anyway since going in to Q with no bonus health means the ADC with RFC knocks off a third of your health with one autoattack.
giantZorg (EUW)
: Looks interesting, but keep in mind that your proposed passive is extremely snowbally. Early gold on Soraka will make her unbearable to play against.
The idea would be that her passive would scale - so at level 1, it'd be roughly 1.5x normal, and at level 18, it'd be about 3x. Between level gating the passive, the natural W scaling with base HP increases, and the need to buy bonus health to provide both Q self-healing and W output, I don't think it's too dangerous, since she can't snowball with gold alone.
: I dunno if you've played HoTS but I kinda just want to see Soraka's heal work more like Alexstrasza's. Alex has to sacrifice a portion of her CURRENT hp and then heal for that amount multiplied by some constant value.. I think its not quite 2 times but you get it. It makes her really want to manage her own health if she wants the best heals. Anyhoo your ideas go a lot farther than I've thought it out and certainly seem to be a huge step in the right direction. I rate your idea "Bananas" out of 10. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
I've played HoTs, but way before they introduced Alexstrasza. Didn't know they already did something like it, heh.
: The only problem I see with this is it will make queue times a lot longer because there will be a lot of lobbies with the same champions so there's less games to match against
This is true, but I'd rather sit in one queue for 5 minutes than of sit in three queues of 1m30s.
Rioter Comments
: Where do I sign up for a rework? That would be really nice. {{sticker:sg-soraka}}
I've been giving this some thought, actually - they announced they wanted to ease up on some of the role lock-in for lanes and champions, and while supports were explicitly mentioned as being excluded from that (due to the balance difficulty they pose) I think it's possible to make Soraka work in such a way that she's not overpowered as a solo laner or underpowered as a support. Wall of text incoming... So, starting off, the goal is to add a way to play her as a mage without making her useless or overpowered as a support. This basically means her mage and support builds need to have divergent build paths, because supports simply don't get the same gold income and have more efficient items as a result. The main difference between an enchanter support and a pure mage is AP. An enchanter will often have several utility items (sightstone, +%healing item, utility, etc.) in lieu of raw AP. Because nearly all of Soraka's utility comes in the form of healing, we already have a convenient non-AP way to scale her support performance that doesn't benefit from AP. In fact, we can take things a step further and fix one of her biggest post-rework flaws - her counterintuitive bonus health scaling. To do this, we make her healing scale with bonus health instead of ability power and force her to build support items to heal well. A numberless changelog could look something like this: **Salvation:** * Soraka's healing abilities benefit significantly more from %healing increases. **Starcall:** * Base damage lowered. * AP scaling damage increased. * Heal on enemy champion hit scales with bonus health instead of ability power. **Astral Infusion:** * Functionality changed: Now sacrifices a percentage of Soraka's maximum health to heal an allied champion for the amount lost. **Equinox:** * Unchanged. **Wish:** * Base healing and AP scaling reduced, bonus HP scaling added. The change to her passive rewards her *heavily* for building classic enchanter support items when playing the support role, to the point where Michael's Crucible and Redemption would be necessary core items for her. She would then either branch into pure health items as a defensive support or AP/HP items if she was trying for some poke and damage. Increasing the AP scalar on her Q would allow her to deal competitive damage, while shifting the health return from AP to Bonus HP would ensure that she wouldn't become an unstoppable top-lane sustain bot simply by building AP. Since there are a few HP/AP items, she'd see some health return as a mage, but the need to get CDR, mana, and AP would limit her ability to stack health like a pure support can. Changing her ultimate is really just to adjust for the different sources of power. Both Mage and Support builds need to be able to use Wish to put back a large (but not insane) amount of health, and giving it dual-stat scaling ensures that both build paths will be able to do that. As an added bonus, these changes would fit in very well with her existing theme of "healing through self sacrifice instead of divine grace," as well as fixing the irksome "buying the wrong item makes you actively bad at your primary job" problem she has with bonus health right now. The biggest issue with this rework is that she might end up too tanky, although my hope is that adjusting the values on her passive would fix that by requiring her to build at least a couple +%healing items. It may also be necessary to cause her W to deactivate Warmog's passive, but given how few Sorakas actually reach the point of being able to activate that, I think have an end-game power spike fantasy isn't the worst thing to have happen to an enchanter support. Thoughts?
Dasdi96 (NA)
: Riot, if you want ap carry bot to be viable:
As a Soraka main, Fleet Footwork irks me to no end. "Oh, look, you're a champion based around winning lane via sustain? Lol, that's funny, I brought you as my keystone. Nice ult, though!"
: PSA to ADCs from a support main
I mainly play Soraka, and I max E last. If I get a kill, it's because *you* screwed up. Not me.
: Oh, you mean that one time they accidentally gave Soraka some skill expression and incentivized risking yourself to land good Q's? Not going to happen again. Rito likes Soraka being boring healbot and ADC's bitch, as evidneced by how they nerf her every single time she dares to try and interact with her enemies.
What's worse is that they don't *want* her to be the passive healbot, but because of how powerful her healing is, every time she can do more than heal she ends up nerfed to keep her from being oppressive. I personally think she needs a mini-rework. Not a design change - her overarching design works well - but some stat and build path alterations to keep her from being too one-dimensional.
Mus (NA)
: Remove Poppy
I think they're not intended as a nerf, more a tweak, but I'm afraid they'll end up as a nerf regardless. Poppy really needs her movement speed to use her E, because if she can't outmaneuver the enemy to wall-slam them the only way she'll get the stun is if she has an anivia/ornn/j4 helping or if the enemy has invested in stylish new Jort headwear. Having a longer range doesn't help if all it lets you do is push the target away from your team toward safety.
: Pings Mia Pings danger on bot lane Pings "Zed-alive" 3 times My botlane still pushes out Zed gets a double "Fucking noob mid gg"
No, don't you get it? You're supposed to follow Zed down, despite the enemy jungler taking over mid and you being OOM from trying to waveclear against the energy-using assassin with AoE.
meowwow7 (NA)
: i will be using this as support i'll take 4 more
: Riot can you let Teemo have shrooms late game again? 5/7.5/10 minutes based on Ult Rank?
I actually think a better idea is to reduce the impact of counter-vision on his mushrooms, rather than make him more able to overcome the marked increase in counter-vision we've seen lately. Soraka had the same problem with Grievous Wounds - if GW is too powerful, Soraka either is overpowered when it isn't present or useless when it is. This means either making his mushrooms resistant to counter-vision in some form (thus lessening the difference between a team with counter-vision and a team without), or shifting power budget away from mushrooms so AP Teemo isn't demolished when the other team has a lot of counter-vision.
: *Locks in Zed* Can we get an AP top?
Sure. *picks Teemo* Need tank JG.
Sageace (NA)
: QOL buff on Garen
I don't really need it to let them know that I'm regenerating, I need to be able to ping it to let people know I have a passive and I'm pulling back to regenerate.
: Just realized something depressing about Shaco.
What? Yes, he is. Did your Oracle wear off?
: The CANON is MINE
+1 for "don't get outplayed by *minions.*" Legit laughed at that.
: You can actually block the cannon minion pretty significantly if you get in front of it and walk almost perpendicular towards the direction it is moving. It will keep trying to get around you, but you will keep being in its way, so you can get the other teams cannon minion to get 2 or 3 shots in before yours does, or more if you start further down the lane. It can help cause the lane to push towards you a little bit, as long as you only last hit right before the minions would normally die.
All for one anivia! BLOCK ALL THE MINIONS!
: ARAM - Queue Dodge Timer
What if they made it so if you or a member of your group dodged, you'd get the same champion in your next ARAM? Rather than penalizing people for dodging, just remove the incentive.
FilDaFunk (EUW)
: Buffing champs for no reason? Of course they will!
Of all of them, the only significant buff proposed here is #3. 1 is nice from a "why am I speeding up and slowing down" perspective but unless you're running to heal a tank, the high burst nature of damage these days means you're either in range to heal the target (and are already doing so) or the target is dead. 2 is a bugfix with a fairly minor associated power spike. The real advantage here would be rewarding good play - dropping your E behind someone being ulted by Zed to stop some of his followup damage, for example. Right now, it's only really useful if somebody has already dropped a stun or root on the target, because you have enough time to hit escape tools before it applies the silence. 3 is a flat out buff, and I have some concerns about skewing Soraka's win rate bot lane based on Dragon access. It makes Blue side VERY attractive, since it's much easier and safer to duck up to Q the dragon pit on Blue side. Overall, though, Soraka doesn't really need buffs. She's already sitting at a ~51% win rate, so changes should be done very carefully to avoid overbuffing her. She did have some identity issues when they first released the new runes (basically: ADCs could provide better self-sustain than Soraka could), but they've since toned down some of the life gain from runes so that's less of a problem now. That aside, I would love to see another mini-rework of her kit to allow for non-toxic play outside of a bot lane support role.
Axerito (EUNE)
: Suggestion: Some small buffs (mostly QoL changes) for Soraka
I like all of them, but #2 especially. Even if I predict when somebody's about to use an ability that her E could counter, if they buffer the ability it doesn't work to stop it most of the time. Zed ults/swaps are particularly obnoxious.
: Please get Brand out of the support role
The problem is, at present, threefold: * Very high base damage values without any AP. * A passive that compounds the above problem, providing scaling damage without needing any offensive itemization. * An ultimate that overwhelmingly favors fighting multiple foes.
: > [{quoted}](name=Krinu,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=K12hy6pH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-29T23:15:59.289+0000) > > I can imagine a couple scenarios where appealing a ban would be appropriate. > > &quot;BRB 20s, gotta get another %%%.&quot; > > Because some people are British. Or, alternatively, let&#x27;s say you&#x27;re playing with a person named Krystal and you typo their name: > > &quot;Hey, Kys, can you please buy a sightstone?&quot; > &quot;*Krys&quot; > > Sure, hate speech is a no-go. But not every instance of a banned word is hate speech, which is why the appeal process exists. > > Edit: lawl, the first part of my post was auto-censored. But that&#x27;s sort of the point, yeah? The appeal process is there for edge cases where the rules don&#x27;t do justice. Okay, okay, I'll take that. That's a very specific situation where Riot may unban you but I mean when you MEAN to say it
Agreed, and that's the whole point of the appeal process: To determine when somebody meant it, or when they just got flagged by accident. Basically, if you meant insult and used hate speech, you have pretty much zero recourse. But if you were flagged by the system and weren't using hate speech, well, that's what the appeal system is for.
: If you have these in your chat logs, don't bother posting about your ban.
I can imagine a couple scenarios where appealing a ban would be appropriate. "BRB 20s, gotta get another %%%." Because some people are British. Or, alternatively, let's say you're playing with a person named Krystal and you typo their name: "Hey, Kys, can you please buy a sightstone?" "*Krys" Sure, hate speech is a no-go. But not every instance of a banned word is hate speech, which is why the appeal process exists. Edit: lawl, the first part of my post was auto-censored. But that's sort of the point, yeah? The appeal process is there for edge cases where the rules don't do justice.
137434 (NA)
: No, her e doesn’t need a buff against minions. You don’t want her quickly instaclearing waves early. In that case she would just sit back throw e and spam laugh. The current damage forces her to come forward and actually interact with her lane by making her have to aa to consume the passive and kill the minion after e.
Morgana had a slew of nerfs for exactly this reason. You don't want long-range mages clearing waves with one or two spells from halfway across the lane. Now, if the argument is "it really sucks having to autoattack to consume illumination," then yeah, sure, I get what you're saying. But flat out buffing her clearing potential is probably not healthy.
: it's moreso the concept of keeping certain tools within certain classes with very few exceptions(and those exceptions would have to give up something in exchange for having a tool of a different class) A good example of this would be to imagine what a MONSTER {{champion:122}} would be if he had a dash but his passive didn't really matter for damage As a result of getting a dash(doesn't matter where in his kit, let's just say his W is a dash now and that only the passive nerf that I said gets through) Darius has jumped to the top of the toplane/juggernaut tier-list because he has a tool that doesn't belong in his class/kit The dash makes his kit WAY stronger because it's something that covers his weaknesses(and would cover all of the Juggernaut class' weaknesses) Irelia getting the 200 range is something that doesn't belong in a kit that's hyper-mobile mostly because she doesn't give anything up for it tankiness? not only naturally in levels(on PBE) but also on an ability to become a temporary tank damage? her PBE damage is still really high and her release date is around the corner, so her damage probably isn't getting toned down by much mobility? her mobility is 5x as good as before with 2 new ways to reset her Q for extra damage utility? Irelia got the ability to stun 5 people if she lines up her daggers right(which leads back towards the mobility being a bit much) Irelia doesn't have anything she gives up/leaves out for the extra power in her kit of having 200 range Rakan gives up damage, gives up a base AD(compared to most other supports, his base AD is smaller for most levels), has high mana costs and constantly has to risk himself in order to be effective Irelia doesn't give up anything and her only risk-factor is when she's facing multiple opponents
While you're not wrong, I will point out that the advantage of 200 range in a kit that's very mobile is nowhere near as large as 200 range on an immobile kit. If Lee Sin had 200 range, it would barely affect his overall power at all, but if Nasus had 200 range he'd be an unholy terror. Having a range advantage on a kit that's already heavily oriented around diving in hard and fast (with limited escape venues) isn't as dominating as having a range advantage on a kit whose only main drawback is inability to close a gap.
: ... uhh to explain so you understand what I was saying: Riot has most likely done to Irelia what they did to Mordekaiser during his rework Riot has most likely made Irelia with the sole intention of pushing her into the botlane I am saddened that Riot would give Irelia tools that Riot has stated were for a different TYPE of character altogether
Ah, I see what you're saying. Sorry, out sick with a cold today so I'm not really firing on all cylinders. In any case, is there a reason increased attack range is exclusive to juggernauts? IIRC, Rakan also has a longer AA range and he's still melee.
: 200 Range
Irelia isn't - and wasn't - a juggernaut, though. Juggernauts are defined by a few common traits: * Weak engage * Strong self sustain * Little to no up front burst * High sustained damage * Some form of cross-purpose stat synergy with defensive stats Irelia's pre-rework kit didn't really fit that. She has incredible engage, relatively weak sustain (compared to the true juggernauts or high lifesteal ADCs), incredible front-loaded burst damage (ult+triforce, Q burst), and moderate to high sustained damage depending on build. She also lacked the cross-purpose stat synergy - Darius and Garen, for example, get significant amounts of sustain from maxHP. Irelia gets her sustain from
: Riot probably redesigned irelia with the intention of shoving her into botlane as one of her main roles(like Morde) I'm saddened that Riot would do this to juggernauts... honestly Riot just doesn't want them to be good {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}} 2 more years until Riot fixes toplane
TBF, Irelia has never really been a juggernaut. Her play pattern has been more that of a diver or assassin than juggernaut. Look at her pre-rework kit: * Significant burst damage * Strong engage, limited disengage * No significant reward for building tank stats (beyond survival itself) * Strong incentive to build damage stats (in her case, attack speed) So while I agree that top lane has issues and that juggernauts took a beating with the rune rework, I don't really think Irelia is part of that particular problem set.
: Thing is, Kayle didn´t cap on CDR just for max E uptime. That was the main reason, sure, but low CD ultimate, especially now with Ultimate Hat, is really good. Survive a team fight while ulted, wait around 20 secs and boom, ult's back up. They´re over nerfing where she's weak and over buffing where she's strong. I can´t see her winrate going any lower. Heck, her pickrate might increase even.
It also makes laning pretty brutal, because you don't even reach the old CD (16s) until level four. So you've lost AD, you've lost AS, and you've lost uptime on your main source of damage and lane functionality. Nice.
Aazzlano (NA)
: The problem is that AP items are complete trash compared to AD items, so a champion that is basically like you are describing is just a worse ADC. Corki is the opposite of what you are saying, a champ that builds broken AD items but does mostly magic damage out of it. And that way is far better because AD items are simply vastly superior so yeah. But yeah the closest thing you'll find are Teemo and Kayle. Though they wouldn't function without the other parts of their kit (as in, with just items and autos, and their autoattack abilities), unlike how most ADCs can function just fine alone on autoattacks and their steroids.
Fair note: Kayle is HORRIFYING late game with Lethal Tempo. Swinging 4 times per second for six seconds while getting double on-hit procs with every other auto means she shreds everyone and everything. Throw in the fact that she has a lot of shred - 15% from her passive, 25 flat from wit's end, and if you can opt in to more with Void Staff and Sorc Boots at the cost of some AS - and it's really hard to counterbuild her.
: "Klepto is the problem" (Ezreal)
The problem isn't the rate of return on kleptomancy; it's how quickly, safely, and easily Ezreal can get those returns with his Q.
: TRAIN CONDUCTOR ORNN (Skin Idea)
This... is actually pretty great. Take my upvote.
: Xayah Passiv bug in interaction with Illaoi passiv and gp barrols
Just played an ARAM with Xayah versus GP, can confirm that passive-empowered autoattacks cannot damage GP's barrels. Normal AAs work fine.
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Krinu

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