Rioter Comments
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 22
Can you guys pleaSe look into the state of Singed or at least awknowledge the existence of his player base? Right now his winrate is between 45-47. He’s a very difficult champion where pretty much every champ counters him now or outscale him. Imagine playing a champion knowing that you probably won’t get any kills in lane but anyone can kill you. Knowing you won’t scale in lategame and you can’t even farm without going home every wave. Please save us or at least notice us.
: Preseason Development Update 1
Singed has always had a really hard time early game, but even harder with all the changes like the one reducing start time. Will there be any singed love this season? Every champion practically counters and outscales him now :/
: Feature/QoL change/Idea Generator for 2018 and beyond!
Suggestion: Add language change to client Hello, I live in Korea but I’m actually American so I have to play on thit Korea server and it makes things tough sometimes because everything is in Korean. Could you guys have an option to change the language of the interface so that I know what items do or what I’m clicking on?
: > [{quoted}](name=MANWOLFAXEBOSS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yt8oFEdg,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-05-08T21:51:16.561+0000) > > Thanks for taking the time to write this up. I know you’re super passionate about Singed and I appreciate the thoughtful post. > > Why Buff Singed > You’re right in that the majority of people playing Singed are Singed mains. This has been true for nearly all of LoL’s life. Even when he’s been very strong, he’s not a champion that appeals to many, whether due to playstyle or persona (almost certainly both). His mastery path is rather obtuse and skews heavily towards strategy rather than tactics. > > So we’re left with a bunch of Singed mains with hundreds of games played on Singed only. As with many similar champions, this leads to a low average win rate and high experienced player win rate. This is true of every champion to some degree, but Singed sits on the extreme end of things. Then who do we balance for? Do we balance for the first time player or the 1000th time player? Well, there’s no clean answer unfortunately and it usually gets taken on a case by case basis. For Singed, it’s the experienced player case (Side note, champion.gg data is average win rate). Reason being, as mentioned above, even when Singed is statistically OP he doesn’t draw players. Wouldn’t that make him a good candidate for a visual/gameplay update? Perhaps, but that’s the Champ-Update team and I can’t speak confidently to their prioritization. Sorry for lack of clarity there. I’ll try and grab someone today and see if they can respond here. > > Singed History > I wasn’t on the balance team at the time, but I pushed back quite hard on the removal of tenacity from R. I would have liked to see defensive stats removed instead. My reasoning was that I never want to stop running as Singed. If I need to die, fine, but let me die running. Felt like we were removing more fun than power. That said, I also understand why we removed it. Singed being able to “freely” access the backline was not meant for his power profile. That was the riddle for Singed players to solve, not the inverse where backline has to figure out how to avoid him. > > Matchups > For lane matchups, I agree with most of your assessments. Singed doesn’t have many winning ones and some of his previous ones have been removed. He used to be able to bypass this with proxy farming, but that isn’t as viable as it used to be (for good reason). 3x Dark Seal in laning phase was fun initially because it felt like gaming the system, but now it’s more like you’re forced to just to survive. Singed has a decent level 2 all-in with Ignite, but for the most part his early game is weak. This isn’t bad if it’s made up for elsewhere. We’ll get into that. > > Midgame > Disagree with your midgame assessment. Assuming you aren’t woefully behind, Singed’s midgame is quite powerful. > > Lategame > I think what you’re objecting to is Singed’s current best/most reliable build being driven by deficits. Singed is forced to buy items that shore up his weaknesses rather than enhance his strengths. Rylai’s + Liandry’s (RoA) are natural fits for Singed, but suboptimal due to current state of LoL. This ends up feeling lame as most people weren’t drawn to Singed to be a pick champ. Exacerbated by the fact that Singed doesn’t have a clean classification in LoL. We can’t say he’s failing/succeeding at X because we don’t have a well defined X. He, like Blitzcrank for example, falls into a special category of “they’re weird.” If Singed’s best build were TF > Gunblade, would he be failing? Either way, if you have to build tank to function then you should be tuned accordingly. > > Tl;dr - I agree that even though Singed’s win rate may be fine, his current best build option isn’t compelling. It’s not why most Singed players want to play Singed > > Champions > “Difficult to learn” doesn’t mean “has a strong late game.” You can have an early game power house with a steep learning curve. That said, because his current early game is so weak he should probably scale better late. > > Elo > I’ve said it before, but Singed’s win rate at all ELOs is healthy. Again, we balance Singed with experienced players in mind. You’re right that his win rate at lower rankings is better, but even at the highest MMR he is over 50%. > > Items > Discussed this in Lategame section. For his passive, we agree. When Singed receives a significant update, this is likely the first place we look. > > Disruptor Problems > I disagree about Singed damage output being too low when building AP. That said, it harkens back to the problem of Singed having to build tank. > > Adaptive Helm helps Singed too and the number of champions that get to rush this against him is relatively low. Don’t think this is a problem. On that note, early internal data shows Singed’s win rate going up on patch 7.9. > > Split Pushing > Assuming you’re talking about a tank build, so yes. Singed doesn’t get to build Sunfire or Titanic like many other tanks and he scales based on the assumption that he’ll have an AP item or two. Even so, his clear speed is reasonable. > > Abilities > Good suggestions here. Agree that some small scope stuff could go a long way. The problem is that with many of these seemingly easy suggestions, they can’t just be done in a vacuum. We can’t responsible just buff Singed. All of these suggestions are zero-sum, requiring taking power from other parts of the kit, validation, etc. When you look at the value proposition of working on “on fire” champions vs. someone doing relatively well, it’s a tough sell. However, the satisfaction angle is pretty compelling to me... > > Anyway, again I really appreciate you taking the time to write this. I wish I could say, “Awesome! We’ll make Singed our top priority and fix all these problems next patch!” I can’t do that. What I can do though, is make sure this sentiment is understood on both Live Gameplay (the balance team) and Champion-Update. Hopefully, we can get some work slated soon. I never seen a Rioter make a more beautiful well written but at the same time 100% correct and on point comment ever
: Thanks for taking the time to write this up. I know you’re super passionate about Singed and I appreciate the thoughtful post. Why Buff Singed You’re right in that the majority of people playing Singed are Singed mains. This has been true for nearly all of LoL’s life. Even when he’s been very strong, he’s not a champion that appeals to many, whether due to playstyle or persona (almost certainly both). His mastery path is rather obtuse and skews heavily towards strategy rather than tactics. So we’re left with a bunch of Singed mains with hundreds of games played on Singed only. As with many similar champions, this leads to a low average win rate and high experienced player win rate. This is true of every champion to some degree, but Singed sits on the extreme end of things. Then who do we balance for? Do we balance for the first time player or the 1000th time player? Well, there’s no clean answer unfortunately and it usually gets taken on a case by case basis. For Singed, it’s the experienced player case (Side note, champion.gg data is average win rate). Reason being, as mentioned above, even when Singed is statistically OP he doesn’t draw players. Wouldn’t that make him a good candidate for a visual/gameplay update? Perhaps, but that’s the Champ-Update team and I can’t speak confidently to their prioritization. Sorry for lack of clarity there. I’ll try and grab someone today and see if they can respond here. Singed History I wasn’t on the balance team at the time, but I pushed back quite hard on the removal of tenacity from R. I would have liked to see defensive stats removed instead. My reasoning was that I never want to stop running as Singed. If I need to die, fine, but let me die running. Felt like we were removing more fun than power. That said, I also understand why we removed it. Singed being able to “freely” access the backline was not meant for his power profile. That was the riddle for Singed players to solve, not the inverse where backline has to figure out how to avoid him. Matchups For lane matchups, I agree with most of your assessments. Singed doesn’t have many winning ones and some of his previous ones have been removed. He used to be able to bypass this with proxy farming, but that isn’t as viable as it used to be (for good reason). 3x Dark Seal in laning phase was fun initially because it felt like gaming the system, but now it’s more like you’re forced to just to survive. Singed has a decent level 2 all-in with Ignite, but for the most part his early game is weak. This isn’t bad if it’s made up for elsewhere. We’ll get into that. Midgame Disagree with your midgame assessment. Assuming you aren’t woefully behind, Singed’s midgame is quite powerful. Lategame I think what you’re objecting to is Singed’s current best/most reliable build being driven by deficits. Singed is forced to buy items that shore up his weaknesses rather than enhance his strengths. Rylai’s + Liandry’s (RoA) are natural fits for Singed, but suboptimal due to current state of LoL. This ends up feeling lame as most people weren’t drawn to Singed to be a pick champ. Exacerbated by the fact that Singed doesn’t have a clean classification in LoL. We can’t say he’s failing/succeeding at X because we don’t have a well defined X. He, like Blitzcrank for example, falls into a special category of “they’re weird.” If Singed’s best build were TF > Gunblade, would he be failing? Either way, if you have to build tank to function then you should be tuned accordingly. Tl;dr - I agree that even though Singed’s win rate may be fine, his current best build option isn’t compelling. It’s not why most Singed players want to play Singed Champions “Difficult to learn” doesn’t mean “has a strong late game.” You can have an early game power house with a steep learning curve. That said, because his current early game is so weak he should probably scale better late. Elo I’ve said it before, but Singed’s win rate at all ELOs is healthy. Again, we balance Singed with experienced players in mind. You’re right that his win rate at lower rankings is better, but even at the highest MMR he is over 50%. Items Discussed this in Lategame section. For his passive, we agree. When Singed receives a significant update, this is likely the first place we look. Disruptor Problems I disagree about Singed damage output being too low when building AP. That said, it harkens back to the problem of Singed having to build tank. Adaptive Helm helps Singed too and the number of champions that get to rush this against him is relatively low. Don’t think this is a problem. On that note, early internal data shows Singed’s win rate going up on patch 7.9. Split Pushing Assuming you’re talking about a tank build, so yes. Singed doesn’t get to build Sunfire or Titanic like many other tanks and he scales based on the assumption that he’ll have an AP item or two. Even so, his clear speed is reasonable. Abilities Good suggestions here. Agree that some small scope stuff could go a long way. The problem is that with many of these seemingly easy suggestions, they can’t just be done in a vacuum. We can’t responsible just buff Singed. All of these suggestions are zero-sum, requiring taking power from other parts of the kit, validation, etc. When you look at the value proposition of working on “on fire” champions vs. someone doing relatively well, it’s a tough sell. However, the satisfaction angle is pretty compelling to me... Anyway, again I really appreciate you taking the time to write this. I wish I could say, “Awesome! We’ll make Singed our top priority and fix all these problems next patch!” I can’t do that. What I can do though, is make sure this sentiment is understood on both Live Gameplay (the balance team) and Champion-Update. Hopefully, we can get some work slated soon.
Much appreciated! Seriously! All we wanted is some attention to this.
: Entirely agree with everything this post says. As a Singed main for 3 seasons now, it's absolutely maddening that Singed has so many issues that could easily be fixed with quality of life buffs, but still it feels like we haven't been heard by Riot after all this time.
never give up hope : (
: Is it ok if this post makes me sad? I feel similar in some ways to the new Yorick. Now, on the topic, I really like Singed and I've been wanting to put time on him but I always felt he had issues, I wasn't wrong. But as I was reading through it and you mentioned the tank update, Amumu and Rammus came to mind. They both are tanks that got untouched on mid season but got and update prior and after it, and Amumu ia now at a great spot imo. I have hope Singed will be revisited as they did, same as they revisited Udyr and Cho'Gath and Nunu and who knows what other outdated champion.
completely agree! I hope this will shine some light on some issues on these old but amazing champs
: Can't up-vote enough.
Thank you very much~
  Rioter Comments
Statikk (NA)
: Champion Subclass List
I don't want to whine and QQ about Singed but my concern is that all of us Singed mains were hoping to see some love in the tank patch, anything even a +5 movement speed or just anything to help because every time a new champ comes out, their kits are so overloaded - some champs have the equivalent of 2-3 passives and Singed players don't even build mana to make use of his passive. Anyways, most of our concerns lay in that since Singed is classified as a Unique playstyle, as are Urgot, Blitz, and a few others - that they will never see any changes to their kit. Please visit the forums and listen to what the players are saying or suggesting. As for Singed, his winrate has been dropping patch after patch, and Singed mains are quitting playing - even me, now I play overwatch and everytime I decide to play a game as Singed, it just makes me not want to play again for another month. There's so much mobility and CC, he can't outrun anyone anymore, and if you build tanky - it takes forever to clear any minion waves. Seriously, why has though foresaken us?
Statikk (NA)
: Champion Subclass List
I'm so sad at the state of Singed and that he just gets ignored by everyone. There's so much mobility in this game, so much Cc. If he builds tank then he does no damage. If he builds damage he just dies. I hate having to build 4 rings just to make it through the landing phase and I hate buying support items because that is all he can afford with the little gold he can make.
Owl X (NA)
: [Bug/Gameplay]Singed and Movement Speed
I thought it was only me, Idk, maybe its just my imagination. But sometimes I have swiftys and cant catch champions without boots
: Keep in mind, when singed is strong, the game is incredibly ridiculous. Riot has stated he's one of those champs that just kinda break... everything. When a score of 0/10/0 is considered perfectly fine, there's potential for issues. That said, I want riot to show more support to singed. His passive is a noob trap, and drags him down.
Yeah exactly! Don't want Singed to be OP or anything, just a passive that helps him do what he does.
Rioter Comments
: Dev Blog: Classes & Subclasses
If our champion doesn't fit anything, for example Singed, does that mean we should give up having any hope to see changes that would be helpful to the champion anytime soon? I really love Singed but this passive is so outdated that I believe if hampers his ability to keep up with all these champions that are just way better, are tanker, do more damage, and can escape much more easily than him. Please tell me he is not forgotten. Please.
Crett (NA)
: I'm not saying Singed's passive couldn't be way more interesting --- but he can use mana. not so much that you should stack tears and RoAs unless you're going AP singed (LOL) but it's by no means wasted! His Q is kinda gated by mana if you don't have enough CDR on your ult to lean on it's regen.
Try this next time you play him, build 2 dorans rings and go straight into Rylais and Liandri's - it is way way better. CDR is okay on Singed but...well to be honest, his Ult is up pretty much by every teamfight anyways. He's got old-schoolitis, and his passive could use some updating to fit into the more current ways of building him.
Khâmul (EUW)
: i build this with singed (i don't main him){{item:3151}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3111}} {{item:3143}} {{item:3065}} + {{item:3083}} or {{item:3110}} or {{item:3001}} and other.... (it depends)
Yup seems pretty standard, but then again - how much are you using you passive right? if yo do build frozen heart - thats only 100 hp - and even then it is IF we build frozen heart
Crett (NA)
: That's a pretty broad statement. I play Singed myself, I know a lot of Singed players and I can say those items work great on Singed (specifically against AD comps). Saying Singed doesn't like mana even disregarding his passive doesn't sound right to me at all. Same with the CDR His ult uptime, nonstop flings and slows make him really powerful And it's rude to tell people that Things they say are stupid
If a singed player wants hp. It's easier to just build hp. You can buy 1 dorans ring and that's enough mana for the whole game, seriously it's true. So that's why I say hat pretty much anyone who knows singed inside and out won't buy any mana items, it's a wasted stay on him
Rain NT (NA)
: No Singed main build Frozen fist, but Frozen heart is useful though in some matchups. In all honesty I dont think mana is terrible on him, cause there is good mana items for him. But it even outs depending on the matchup between just straight up building HP+AP or Mana and AP
Perhaps against a vayne, but my point is that anyone who plays singed seriously doesn't build roa or tear and doesn't itemize with mana. That's the singed meta
CppL (EUW)
: {{item:3110}} {{item:3027}} {{item:3025}} {{item:3048}} all of these are prety good items on him.
As I said, no singed main builds those - we go rylais to liandris to deadmans, thornmail, magic resist
Kuronok2 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crett,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yaEH2JAo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-18T10:32:21.254+0000) > > {{item:3110}} {{item:3025}} <------------- Stupid comment. No Singed main build those items. Singed doesn't need CDR and mana is also not needed.
No singed main builds those
Rioter Comments

Kujararanch

Level 30 (NA)
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