: The Reason Tanks Aren't Played Often
Nah it's cause tanks don't have a place right now with conq being prevalent top lane and most junglers being super mobile. MPen ain't killing off most tanks cause they can eat a whole rotation if they're a true tank. Nither is vayne how do we know? Season 6 when she had about the same true damage and even more AD but was seen as a troll pick that season because of how hard she lost most matchups and how most tanks that ran {{item:3025}} {{item:3065}} {{item:3075}} would still have enough enough damage to still kill the squishy.
: Is it now time to nerf Tristana?
Lmao tristana broken? Cause some people play her in korea and pro play where they would have optimised ping and shit? This thread actually gives me cancer.
Jakra (EUW)
: Can we take a sec to appreciate WW's new skin? Especially when they show the fact that he's human?
That's what I was nodding to as well esp since their creature like characters have been part of the battlecast series
: did any of those metas make it where it was such a powerful option that there were 3 or even 4 of a single class on the same team? as for squishies not liking being squished, yeah, that's always been ridiculous, especially if they ignore defense options people try to call mages tanky, yet at best in common builds, they end up at full build around 3000 health (full build...) and 50 bonus armor or magic resist and even with those defenses, their natural counters: divers and assassins, kill them immediately. Marksmen have similar options and still complain
> [{quoted}](name=3TWarrior,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5fhHwER5,comment-id=0013000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-13T18:41:01.446+0000) > > did any of those metas make it where it was such a powerful option that there were 3 or even 4 of a single class on the same team? > > as for squishies not liking being squished, yeah, that's always been ridiculous, especially if they ignore defense options > > people try to call mages tanky, yet at best in common builds, they end up at full build around 3000 health (full build...) and 50 bonus armor or magic resist and even with those defenses, their natural counters: divers and assassins, kill them immediately. Marksmen have similar options and still complain sorry for the late reply the answer to that question is yes at least from the large amount of vids that I had watch during that time (along with games that I had played) it was quite common to see a Tank top, Jgl, and support in your game (esp with protect X comps) with the biggest offenders being {{champion:154}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:57}} (and sometimes {{champion:31}} ) they literally died off as soon as there were more available options of countering them such as {{item:3036}} being changed to {Total} instead of {bonus}. and yeah people will always ignore defensive options cause they always feel that the best defense is just killing your opponent which again Tanks don't do well as a carry so they will always have lower pick rate. The community just won't accept that being the reason and for that case there will always be this cry of there being to much damage.
: well, actually, the only tank meta to ever exist was in season 5 when the jungling item added a lot of damage and %hp health 3 tanks (or durable champions ) average with 4 not being uncommon, the game was turtled for half the game or more, then they pick a lane and run towards it with the minion wave and just destroy the towers in their way, potentially netting a kill or two as well, then backing off when you've killed 2 or 3 of the team, or just stalling in place to wait out the revive timers it was disgusting...pretty much the only worse time was the 4-man dive meta (which didn't exist previously because you took a serious hit to gold and XP) the tank meta meta only lasted for a month and even then you could still influence the game quite a bit depending upon your role
> [{quoted}](name=3TWarrior,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5fhHwER5,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2019-07-12T02:39:33.803+0000) > > well, actually, the only tank meta to ever exist was in season 5 when the jungling item added a lot of damage and %hp health > > 3 tanks (or durable champions ) average with 4 not being uncommon, the game was turtled for half the game or more, then they pick a lane and run towards it with the minion wave and just destroy the towers in their way, potentially netting a kill or two as well, then backing off when you've killed 2 or 3 of the team, or just stalling in place to wait out the revive timers > > it was disgusting...pretty much the only worse time was the 4-man dive meta (which didn't exist previously because you took a serious hit to gold and XP) > > the tank meta meta only lasted for a month and even then you could still influence the game quite a bit depending upon your role there have been mutiple tank metas actually * seasons 6 when cinderhulk was rebuffed * a period between 7-8 Courage of the Colossus was all the rage * and actually earlier this year when Aftershock first arrived Each and every time there's a bitch and a cry about how DUMB durable a tank may be along with the crying of "cdr is too ez to get" and that being "problematic" cause some dumb squishy main is complaining about how they couldn't play the game cause of the amount of CC they ate. Which again speaks into the further problems of the community. They don't want someone to CC them, and they don't wanna die Shit as a lot of top lane mains complain about they essentially don't want people to out scale them either. It's a lose-lose-lose situation which is why tanks like Galio keep getting gutted and redone. Shit now that I think about it Galio would stand as the perfect example of a Tank that did his job _**too well**_ and through community complaints both in solo and in pro had him turned into a DaMaGe dealer and back to a tank multiple times. As a tank, his bases were strong but you could do decent till laning phase was over, then the complaints about him **over-CCing **you would roll on to the boards. But as a Damage dealer if he hit you you basically fking imploded on sight. There's literally no in-between that people liked. Poppy/Maokai as a tank basically ensured the same thing that's why they got gutted so hard. TL;DR People don't like tanks. Not all of course, but a vast majority do not like them. Both playing them, as sometimes they have no agency no matter how hard they win their role i;e like top, and playing against them, as their massive amounts of sustain that they can hold in their kits (when the sun and the moon align) could make them feel UN-killable. That's why they have a low % pick rate cause their mainly played by mains. Meaning the complaints will always come from people who play squishies and don't like being squished. It's a ridiculous concept once you think about it.
MaFyO2154 (EUW)
: the game would be less toxic if the game would be more enjoyable
It's funny cause people don't wanna get CC'd for life (which is what you really get when you get a tank meta) And they don't wan't a damage meta (which is what you get when no one can tank) BOTH ass backwards concepts that mainly scream "i don't wanna die in the game" which is at that point player problems. Glad riot doesn't take boards seriously if it were up to them they'd have a game where no one could literally do anything lmao.
: This ADC and Support synergy
Her ez counter is {{champion:18}} +Other support anything else and yeah ur gonna have a bad time
: It's very rare that i leave my games but sometimes it extremely justified.
I'm completely down for leaving a game esp if the team can't get it together in the first 15 mins. Shit I play Adc and sometimes there are games where I literally don't get even scale cause of how lost the solo lane may be. like I suppose to play a game against the 10/0 jax + or kat with {{item:3146}} {{item:3165}} because we're suppose to assume that they might throw? if people knew when some characters/comps have hit their "winnable" power spikes on top my teammates actually understanding what their new objective of said role instead of this "nEvr SuREnDeR" mentally we'd actually have a better quality game. so nah I'll just leave.
Sukishoo (NA)
: Well yes they may have lots of money but really most companies are pretty stingy in that regard, so they want to hold on to their profits rather than spreading it to make certain things arguably better. (Same thing was said when Eve got a not so great bloodmoon skin last year as well). There's quite a few things skin wise that could have been done better, and was arguably done better for different games (i.e Smite) while using the same themes. Where skins in general are concerned though, they are meant to be a different look at the champion. So, in Diana's case, giving her a bunch of moon themed skins kind of gets redundant imo. She started with Dark Valkyrie to give her something opposing to Leona's Valkyrie skin, but then she gets Lunar Goddess which keeps her in a moon theme. She only got Infernal due to the community vote at the time, and the Fire team winning the event. Next we saw Bloodmoon, returning to a moon and demon inspired theme, then Dark Waters pushing for a more watery theme. So, I'm not opposed to an Eclipse universe skin but I still find it better when skins can truly explore a champion on another standing.
> [{quoted}](name=Sukishoo,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1XvhlKn5,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-05T17:37:08.197+0000) > > Well yes they may have lots of money but really most companies are pretty stingy in that regard, so they want to hold on to their profits rather than spreading it to make certain things arguably better. (Same thing was said when Eve got a not so great bloodmoon skin last year as well). There's quite a few things skin wise that could have been done better, and was arguably done better for different games (i.e Smite) while using the same themes. > > Where skins in general are concerned though, they are meant to be a different look at the champion. So, in Diana's case, giving her a bunch of moon themed skins kind of gets redundant imo. She started with Dark Valkyrie to give her something opposing to Leona's Valkyrie skin, but then she gets Lunar Goddess which keeps her in a moon theme. She only got Infernal due to the community vote at the time, and the Fire team winning the event. Next we saw Bloodmoon, returning to a moon and demon inspired theme, then Dark Waters pushing for a more watery theme. So, I'm not opposed to an Eclipse universe skin but I still find it better when skins can truly explore a champion on another standing. I can see that point mainly referencing blood moon tho because that was a long awaited skin for champ that was most desired. Honestly I know they could hit the mark with a few more skins (like honestly surprised both leona and Diana weren't in the running for cosmic/dark stars skins since...that just makes sense to me). Just pointing out that they kinda did shaft her for specifically that one skin and it kind of speaks a lot of what they think of the character tbh.
: This is what I mean by Diana mains acting like entitled brats. Y'all got an amazing blood moon skin that even had one of the highest quality splashes this game had seen at that point and still bitched about it. Quick to forget about blackwater too. Leo got BBQ trash and ppl were still happy. Then when leo gets the eclipse skin they'll act like Diana somehow deserves to have it. If riot kept shitting on your character you wouldn't get a 1350 skin every year for 3 years now.
> [{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1XvhlKn5,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-05T17:56:15.440+0000) > > This is what I mean by Diana mains acting like entitled brats. > > Y'all got an amazing blood moon skin that even had one of the highest quality splashes this game had seen at that point and still bitched about it. Quick to forget about blackwater too. > > Leo got BBQ trash and ppl were still happy. > Then when leo gets the eclipse skin they'll act like Diana somehow deserves to have it. > > If riot kept shitting on your character you wouldn't get a 1350 skin every year for 3 years now. It's funny cause you don't read but I understand the concept of reading is highly difficult. I said ****I DONT PLAY THE CHAMP ALOT**** conclusion? I'm not a main I did say though that it didn't make sense to me even when I started the game that the moon worshiping character was neglected when it came to skins that....revolved around the one thing she worshiped and how lackluster it was in comparison to the set she came with at that time. I don't care about the comparison to the champ who gets obvious love now to her lore standing (Leona) because I don't care I like them both. Just pointing out that if they are going to half ass the character who's lore revolves around said thing she should probably get the most caring attention. Again I know reading and comprehension is difficult maybe dropping out at the 5th grade shouldn't have been the life choice you made. Enjoy your day sir. Edit: No the skin was not the best in the line up at all. She got points for the splash art but literally Jhin had the best points for Animation, And style, and sound, since he weirdly fit the theme even harder than the person who, Again, worshiped the fucking thing that started it all. Even Diana's backing animation can't compared to how the ONI styled jhin felt. If blood moon is a Japanese-Demon-Style type skin Diana just looked the part. ****JHIN WAS THE PART****. This coming from A ****__JHIN__**** MAIN
: Oh. But every top laner shitting on everything from every angle possible is okay?
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wJ0ZEAQW,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-07-04T17:29:44.793+0000) > > Oh. But every top laner shitting on everything from every angle possible is okay? yeah according to the ususal shit post. lets not forget about the jgls who run you down at full tank. These guys are just shit post to shit post cause they probs dived into a 5 man fight with no {{item:3143}} or armor and surprised they got blown up mind you no one in this game plays tanks you yeah def some garbage melee carry complaint
Sukishoo (NA)
: Exactly. When they planned skins for the year, her's was the Dark Water, even though they said they looked at the idea of an Eclispe skin but their resources were limited. It was just like when people complained Bloodmoon wasn't a legendary, but that was because they only planned 1350 for it and would have required a massive delay for it to become a higher tier. They just don't have the resources to do all of these things.
> [{quoted}](name=Sukishoo,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1XvhlKn5,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-05T13:51:39.445+0000) > > Exactly. When they planned skins for the year, her's was the Dark Water, even though they said they looked at the idea of an Eclispe skin but their resources were limited. > > It was just like when people complained Bloodmoon wasn't a legendary, but that was because they only planned 1350 for it and would have required a massive delay for it to become a higher tier. They just don't have the resources to do all of these things. They are literally a billion dollar company them not having the resources is a meme at this point and the bigger slap in the face was that ***Jhin*** a brand new character at the time of the release got the best looking skin out of the group at the time of release, while **Diana ** an older character and who people had been asking for a blood moon skin for **2 generations ** in, (even myself mind you and I don't play Diana a lot) look like she had just been thrown in as an after thought. What's literally worse about that excuse about it being pushed back is that it's an **online** game they could literally update the visuals to not look as bland and not one person would be upset about it. They keep shitting on the one character who at this point deserves the most love every time there is a mention of anything of moon or sun related stuff.... you know the stuff that's most connected to her lore?
: If Renekton is to get a shield breaker, it should go on his Empowered E and not Empowered W. Empowered W is for damage, while Empowered E already has another way of stripping defenses. Putting the shield breaker there would make Empowered E better at its purpose of stripping defenses.
> [{quoted}](name=ProfDrDeath,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-07-03T11:38:55.087+0000) > > If Renekton is to get a shield breaker, it should go on his Empowered E and not Empowered W. Empowered W is for damage, while Empowered E already has another way of stripping defenses. Putting the shield breaker there would make Empowered E better at its purpose of stripping defenses. That's such a good Idea it hurts esp cause it would also give players a chance to counter by forcing some trades or something at the right time instead of "oh look he's near empowered state gotta give lane up even more now" like I've heard of lane bullies but gotdamn dude if that change goes through he's gonna be so toxic to deal with.
Pika Fox (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Zector1010,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=B8vpnwEv,comment-id=0012,timestamp=2019-06-17T13:57:33.941+0000) > > I support off meta but when i see something like full ad braum top or ap rammus mid or ap ivern adc i get pissed. > Functional off meta like nocturne mid or tank karma top is ok with me . When off meta picks make sense I am fine with it. But if you want to try ad soraka jungle or something go and try it with friends in 5 man premades. Dont expect random solo q players to see that sort of bs and not get pissed. > If you try doing stuff like that in my games you will be flamed even if you are trying to win. There is a reason people play "meta". It is because it is the most effective tactic available. Playing off meta stuff puts your team at a disadvantage unless you are really good at the pick or the enemy cant play against the pick. > > So if you want to play off meta play it in normals with 5 man premades ; not in solo draft or ranked. Meta is not "the most effective tactic available", its the generally precieved cookie cutter of what works. Theres no hard way to tell what the most effective thing is at all times. Unless someone actively plays AD soraka top, theres no actual way to tell if its good or dogshit, and under what circumstances. (AP on no AP ratio champions is a bit different, given AP doesnt enhance autos)
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=B8vpnwEv,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2019-06-17T15:11:25.045+0000) > > Meta is not "the most effective tactic available", *its the generally precieved cookie cutter of what works*. Theres no hard way to tell what the most effective thing is at all times. Unless someone actively plays AD soraka top, theres no actual way to tell if its good or dogshit, and under what circumstances. (AP on no AP ratio champions is a bit different, given AP doesnt enhance autos) wtf are you talking about precieved. There's literally stats for champs statistics on whether or not you'll even win the lane, let alone win the game. Off meta is usually some troll shit cause the person has no idea of why they would even lose the game in the first place *DESPITE* the fact they are "trying" I just report the shit and don't follow up behind them at all cause I'm not gonna spend my time with someone who decided to grief me. Ez way to get an account banned since they then usually look like they are feeding along with the troll pick. How stupid does one have to not put in the consideration of "hmm is my off meta pick what the team needs against the enemy team?" it's usually not and "off meta players" are just selfish trash bags {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
: This whole thing gives the Nubrac guy a name and that's the real shame here. He may not intend to grief but he certainly does. He soaks XP mid and his ADC gets zoned bot Mid less xp->less levels->level powerspikes later->Less agency throughout game AD less farm->less gold->item powerspikes later->Less agency throughout the game Jgl can't gank mid/bot->less opportunity to create leads->less agency It botches 3 out of your 4 allies, the guy deserves a 14 Day ban 100%
> [{quoted}](name=BigBrainSuppMain,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=gzZVhZBd,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-06-16T06:36:25.270+0000) > > This whole thing gives the Nubrac guy a name and that's the real shame here. He may not intend to grief but he certainly does. He soaks XP mid and his ADC gets zoned bot > > Mid less xp->less levels->level powerspikes later->Less agency throughout game > > AD less farm->less gold->item powerspikes later->Less agency throughout the game > > Jgl can't gank mid/bot->less opportunity to create leads->less agency > > It botches 3 out of your 4 allies, the guy deserves a 14 Day ban 100% This and always this. The biggest complainers about NB3 BRUTALLY ignore that this due was hard inting everyone on his team. It's not fun not matter how hard he was "trying". Makes matters worse is that he apparently only does this when there is a top streamer around. Play stupid games Win stupid prizes he deserved the ban.
Moody P (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kyovulpes,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4MbWtLVZ,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-06-07T22:10:32.492+0000) > > And that's what I'm asking and through this thread no one as had come up with anything significant other than some how focusing on the point of the E. That's why I recommended a soft CC (like a high slow) once you *GET HIT* essentially solidifying the whole "I really have to fight her"aspect. > > See the problem is tho when her E was overpowered (basically permanently being up) in early s6 she was banned... like a lot. Like don't know who like being taken out of lane for 60 seconds but that was the move. Her Ratios have been hit lot during the time as well as she essentially she didn't have to build AD (Now she does cause of how her passive works). So unless there's *hard* reverts the only thing that would make people wanna fight her... or rather *have* to fight her would just be some hard CC which tbh with the amount of displacements, stuns, and other BS. No one would want. > > Honestly that's the only reason I'm here. OP's post is legitimate but honestly whatever buff is wanted is the same one no one will want. And haven't really seen much through the post. (tho someone suggested a grounding effect when she W's which sounds interesting, but the people we do have with grounding {{champion:27}} {{champion:69}} and that type of CC in general, still talking about grounding ofc, ain't all that fun to play against. Would hate having to duel that so idk.) i have a few ideas but it essentially amounts to a small rework rather than a few number changes
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4MbWtLVZ,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-07T23:32:18.827+0000) > > i have a few ideas but it essentially amounts to a small rework rather than a few number changes Would love to hear them.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kyovulpes,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4MbWtLVZ,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-06-07T14:30:35.032+0000) > > True but where do you see her needing the buff the most? Or rather what would you think would need a change in places. I feel like her E should have some sort of soft CC when you get hit or Allow for a Daruis like pull but instead multiple souls instead of the soft CC? Honestly now that I think about it Illaoi needs like stat changes? Maybe a passive change or something? I don't see where you change or buff her that makes her s6 bannable other than lowering her E cd even more. What she really needs is a pyke sized pull on her e. Rn it doesn't even slow unless you destroy the vessel or they walk out. She just needs a more reliable way to force an engage on people above bronze as even in silver people start realizing, "oh I can just dash away when she ults and she is no longer a threat and then immediately go back in with 12 dashes as riven and kill her"
> [{quoted}](name=Minimac2000,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4MbWtLVZ,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-06-07T15:26:10.998+0000) > > What she really needs is a pyke sized pull on her e. Rn it doesn't even slow unless you destroy the vessel or they walk out. She just needs a more reliable way to force an engage on people above bronze as even in silver people start realizing, "oh I can just dash away when she ults and she is no longer a threat and then immediately go back in with 12 dashes as riven and kill her" And that's what I'm asking and through this thread no one as had come up with anything significant other than some how focusing on the point of the E. That's why I recommended a soft CC (like a high slow) once you *GET HIT* essentially solidifying the whole "I really have to fight her"aspect. See the problem is tho when her E was overpowered (basically permanently being up) in early s6 she was banned... like a lot. Like don't know who like being taken out of lane for 60 seconds but that was the move. Her Ratios have been hit lot during the time as well as she essentially she didn't have to build AD (Now she does cause of how her passive works). So unless there's *hard* reverts the only thing that would make people wanna fight her... or rather *have* to fight her would just be some hard CC which tbh with the amount of displacements, stuns, and other BS. No one would want. Honestly that's the only reason I'm here. OP's post is legitimate but honestly whatever buff is wanted is the same one no one will want. And haven't really seen much through the post. (tho someone suggested a grounding effect when she W's which sounds interesting, but the people we do have with grounding {{champion:27}} {{champion:69}} and that type of CC in general, still talking about grounding ofc, ain't all that fun to play against. Would hate having to duel that so idk.)
Moody P (NA)
: Illaoi is dead
True but where do you see her needing the buff the most? Or rather what would you think would need a change in places. I feel like her E should have some sort of soft CC when you get hit or Allow for a Daruis like pull but instead multiple souls instead of the soft CC? Honestly now that I think about it Illaoi needs like stat changes? Maybe a passive change or something? I don't see where you change or buff her that makes her s6 bannable other than lowering her E cd even more.
: > [Steel Tempest's damage can be blocked or dodged only by the target Steel Tempest applies on-hit effects to. Secondary targets will not be able to block it. Even if the damage is blocked, Yasuo will still be granted a Gathering Storm stack.](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Jax) That isn't a bug. --- I've gone ahead and removed the insulting language from your post, as per the Golden Rule: [Always be respectful to players, community members, moderators, and Rioters.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/ITFIpNUE) If you have any questions about this moderation action, don't hesitate to reach out to the Boards Moderation Team via: * The [**NA Boards Discord**](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification) * The [**Discuss the Boards**](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation) sub-board -- Wilk Łucznik 🏹
> [{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=VqkMfVQy,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-26T19:08:38.233+0000) > > That isn't a bug. > --- > > I've gone ahead and removed the insulting language from your post, as per the Golden Rule: [Always be respectful to players, community members, moderators, and Rioters.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/ITFIpNUE) > > If you have any questions about this moderation action, don't hesitate to reach out to the Boards Moderation Team via: > > * The [**NA Boards Discord**](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification) > * The [**Discuss the Boards**](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation) sub-board > > -- Wilk Łucznik 🏹 Thanks for the info but this just goes to show how more overloaded the kit is. Cause its an like an aoe AA that applies on hit and still get 100% on of the lifesteal as well because of conq? lmao something needs to go.
: Considering most mages have skillshots (especially those with high range) and skillshots get hard countered by mobility, something that vayne has in abudance, i highly doubt a mage can 100-0 so easily unless she has no reflexes at all. And if you think about it, her tradeoff seem more like, pseudo-tradeoffs. Like yeah they exist, but they are heavily minimized.
> [{quoted}](name=VanaQuish,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gyTzkb4k,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-03-29T05:42:26.999+0000) > > Considering most mages have *skillshots* (especially those with high range) and *skillshots* get hard countered by mobility. {{champion:90}} :what can't hear you over me Ulting vanye {{champion:134}} :same {{champion:45}} :same
Ayzev (EUW)
: I like how the OP is about Ahri, but most of the comments are about Yasuo
> [{quoted}](name=Ayzev,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=yNw0F3zW,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-03-30T09:48:25.634+0000) > > I like how the OP is about Ahri, but most of the comments are about Yasuo honestly same lmao
: > But, this item is utterly ridiculous to build against. Thornmail. Adaptive Helm. Not very hard. > On people like Yi and Vayne who have built-in true damage, this makes their damage outputs almost impossible to counter. Yi sucks and is melee. Never complain about a bad champion. Vayne is overpowered. This isn't Rageblade's fault.
> [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ilMzZFTB,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-03-30T00:38:12.360+0000) > > Thornmail. Adaptive Helm. > > Not very hard. But true dmg....and this {{item:3124}} having penetration...you know what yeah sure build some of that whatever makes for an argument I suppose lmao this commuinty
Paroe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Wilk Łucznik,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FA4TR7xv,comment-id=000600020000,timestamp=2019-03-27T16:29:09.196+0000) > > He told you how to counter it in Vayne's case. > > She's not getting HP true damage with every auto attack, but with every 3. That means to counter it you have to stop her from being able to proc it. This comes in multiple forms, from either keeping her from being able to hit you, or forcing her to keep switching targets to survive. Right. Just stop the 450MS+ 550 range marksman from basic attacking you once into a Q for a double proc since her Q is an auto attack reset that applies silver bolts or even just not being in basic attack range for 2 seconds because vayne gets 1.7ASP with just greaves and a zeal item. If vayne were 325 base MS with no MS on her passive and a non-cancelable animation on her E you would completely have a point. Vayne should be like kog'maw; super damage, weak to all ins, low mobility. But youre _telling us to just not get hit by a champion who borders hyper mobile?_ That should _NEVER_ be the counter play to targeted damage unless theres an equally powerful passive counter like dodge chance. What youre saying is no different than telling us the counterplay to zed is to just not get ulted, or that the counterplay to jhin is to just walk away, or that the counterplay to Irelia is to just not get hit by her Q.
> [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FA4TR7xv,comment-id=0006000200000001,timestamp=2019-03-27T20:30:32.105+0000) > > Right. > Just stop the 450MS+ 550 range marksman from basic attacking you once into a Q for a double proc since her Q is an auto attack reset that applies silver bolts or even just not being in basic attack range for 2 seconds because vayne gets 1.7ASP with just greaves and a zeal item. > If vayne were 325 base MS with no MS on her passive and a non-cancelable animation on her E you would completely have a point. Vayne should be like kog'maw; super damage, weak to all ins, low mobility. > > But youre _telling us to just not get hit by a champion who borders hyper mobile?_ That should _NEVER_ be the counter play to targeted damage unless theres an equally powerful passive counter like dodge chance. > What youre saying is no different than telling us the counterplay to zed is to just not get ulted, or that the counterplay to jhin is to just walk away, or that the counterplay to Irelia is to just not get hit by her Q. How I feel about Darius with {{summoner:6}} and phase rush. His problem ain't being kited if he gets 500 ms cause he love tapped someone in less than a sec accounting for AA resets. Now he's my on backline, blew up a carry with ult, and now we all have to stop fight cause he's gonna kill us before we ever blow him up.
: Is everything okay man? That's a pretty baseless accusation and unsurprisingly false.
> [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleeper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xhW6VJUB,comment-id=00150000,timestamp=2019-03-27T03:35:46.332+0000) > > Is everything okay man? That's a pretty baseless accusation and unsurprisingly false. with everything being online says your a *Yorick* top main lane that, *heres the kicker* run the core items of {{item:3078}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3053}} with the probability of then maybe running some armor in the form of {{item:3026}} and you end up losing most games against {{champion:58}}. (which makes sense in the form of this post) so yeah a prime squishy frontliner bruiser ,who if, instead build probs meta golem instead would probably not suffer so hard in those matches. but hey like I said "this item appeared and instead of My team and I deciding to counter build against it. We played selfish and we lost can you believe that? rito nerf please" boards- but congrats on being NA's 6th best yorick can't wait till I get there! GL and good climb! hope you make to grandmaster!
: 49 days later, Spear of Shojin still exists
I mean nice to know you don't build armor/ health on whatever squishy champ you play I suppose. Cause thats's main gripe of these post usually. "this item appeared and instead of My team and I deciding to counter build against it. We played selfish and we lost can you believe that? rito nerf please" boards-
Krayzie (EUNE)
: * Every time you paint a room it gets a little smaller.
> [{quoted}](name=Krayzie,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4tko4ioO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-20T10:47:09.487+0000) > > * Every time you paint a room it gets a little smaller. Throw this post away I don't like thinking like this...{{sticker:sg-janna}}
: Riven now still sits at a 56% winrate with a 60% on her mains
@OP it may be the case that realistically they need to take off the true dmg on conq because with it her normal build of {{item:3071}} {{item:3813}} {{item:3161}} (i believe) Added with conq means she runs into the thing of omega raid boss riven cause the true dmg ignores rules and she in a sense has 100% lifesteal on all skills. So yeah Conq needs to be removed bruisers were tots fine with the extra early AD the true dmg+healing makes it over kill. To put into perspective she was never this bad when ,equally like rune, FOB was being run. so yeah....get rid of conq
: > [{quoted}](name=Kyovulpes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=joXrvpAG,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-03-11T16:06:21.696+0000) > > They (enemies) don't melt instantly...unless you play low armor characters which in that case...don't get hit? Don't know Lmao Vayne and crit Jinx can 3 hit tanks building full armor. Dont bs and pretend your role isnt overpowered af.
> [{quoted}](name=ChrisBrownze,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=joXrvpAG,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-03-11T16:29:24.981+0000) > > Lmao Vayne and crit Jinx can 3 hit tanks building full armor. Dont bs and pretend your role isnt overpowered af. ummm 3 hits from vayne is gonna come in the form of true damage which since {{item:3124}} is gonna take some time to stack means that shes been in a fight for longer than 6 seconds which is 15 attacks? but ok. and jinx hax to choose between I pea shooter which is gonna take time to kill the tank or slow and powerful rockets both reduced in power by items like {{item:3143}} {{item:3075}}...so no? like no adc is 3 hitting a rammus, rammus would be meta right now and because of that I have to have call complete bs on you and again would like to point out that you should probably build armor if you don't wanna die. Otherwise don't get hit? thanks for your time.
: Or maybe they just revert these terrible crit changes that alllow ADCs to melt anything instantly.
> [{quoted}](name=ChrisBrownze,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=joXrvpAG,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-03-11T03:39:20.059+0000) > > Or maybe they just revert these terrible crit changes that alllow ADCs to melt anything instantly. They (enemies) don't melt instantly...unless you play low armor characters which in that case...don't get hit? Don't know
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZfAY8RZp,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-02-08T00:46:54.551+0000) > > seems like its easy to abuse by ranged champions. > > they have easier target access than melee champions, which means even with a 3 second timer, they have an easier time to keep the keystone up in a fight than melee champions would, or stack it up off poke before the fight really starts. > > the current conqueror is basically shit for ranged champions because they simply cant hold the buff. this new one looks like its useful for ranged and melee, which means ranged will abuse it as usual. > > id rather they decreased the effect of the keystone by 40% for ranged champions, than decrease the timer. because the timer isnt much of a restriction for them either way. Dude, you need to AA 5 times to fully stack it and losing it all in 3s is trash lol. I know you probably dont remember, but the old fervor in one of its interations it was nerfed down to 4s stack duration, and when they did that EVERYONE stopped using the rune because it was unuseable (the next patch they buffed it to 6s), i fail to see on how 3s is going to be any better.
> [{quoted}](name=Anime Fizz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZfAY8RZp,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-02-08T00:56:12.878+0000) > > Dude, you need to AA 5 times to fully stack it and losing it all in 3s is trash lol. > > I know you probably dont remember, but the old fervor in one of its interations it was nerfed down to 4s stack duration, and when they did that EVERYONE stopped using the rune because it was unuseable (the next patch they buffed it to 6s), i fail to see on how 3s is going to be any better. you're responding to someone who shit post regularly hating on anything having to do with ranged. no worries man.
SanKakU (NA)
: Her Q and W do not scale with AP. Even though her E does, that doesn't stop her Q and W from scaling with AP on his transformation. And since Shyvana buying a mix of AP and AD does rather well, it just makes his pure AP scaling with her kit disgusting. E still scales with whatever AD he has by the way, it's not bonus AD, so he loses nothing from transforming into her ultimate form and only gains things. If you want to debate that game in particular, I already explained that there might be more to the interaction than just the fact that he can't go back to himself which contributes to him being too weak. If you can't read an entire post, don't bother responding to it.
> [{quoted}](name=SanKakU,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dEPtWnMo,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-05T15:56:35.821+0000) > > Her Q and W do not scale with AP. Even though her E does, that doesn't stop her Q and W from scaling with AP on his transformation. And since Shyvana buying a mix of AP and AD does rather well, it just makes his pure AP scaling with her kit disgusting. E still scales with whatever AD he has by the way, it's not bonus AD, so he loses nothing from transforming into her ultimate form and only gains things. > > If you want to debate that game in particular, I already explained that there might be more to the interaction than just the fact that he can't go back to himself which contributes to him being too weak. If you can't read an entire post, don't bother responding to it. When the actual hell are you building any kind of ad on sylas? having the extra 30% is nothing compared to the *basically* true damage you'll do going double pen AP. Actually with that damage he's over killing you so why would the AD matter anyways? it's only on this mode that he'll be staying permanently in that form other wise what you're explaining is just AP shyvana in a nut shell. So how bout you rEaD aN EnTiRe post.
SanKakU (NA)
: It's not a small conversion, and even if it was, she has AP scaling in her kit which his AP benefits from. Many tanks don't have AD scaling and AP scaling. I don't think you understand the gravity of what I'm referencing. He can't steal Ornn's entire kit, so he can't get Ornn's Q which scales with AD in addition to everything else. But when he steals Shyvana's R, he gets her Q, W, E, and her R. It's broken because she has hybrid scaling. Nidalee and Jayce also have hybrid scaling, but they trade something for their alternate form. Shyvana trades nothing. Her ultimate form is just what it sounds like, better than her regular form. Not only does he get the entire kit, he also has superior scaling and on top of it all, he can extend it past what Shyvana can. I would guess they made it so he can extend it with mana regeneration because they would assume he wouldn't build much attack speed(which Shyvana would use to extend her ultimate), but he can buy for example Nashor's Tooth, so I don't like that reasoning at all. It just creates an additional problem.
> [{quoted}](name=SanKakU,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dEPtWnMo,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-02-05T14:33:47.572+0000) > > It's not a small conversion, and even if it was, she has AP scaling in her kit which his AP benefits from. Many tanks don't have AD scaling and AP scaling. > > I don't think you understand the gravity of what I'm referencing. He can't steal Ornn's entire kit, so he can't get Ornn's Q which scales with AD in addition to everything else. But when he steals Shyvana's R, he gets her Q, W, E, and her R. It's broken because she has hybrid scaling. Nidalee and Jayce also have hybrid scaling, but they trade something for their alternate form. Shyvana trades nothing. Her ultimate form is just what it sounds like, better than her regular form. Not only does he get the entire kit, he also has superior scaling and on top of it all, he can extend it past what Shyvana can. > > I would guess they made it so he can extend it with mana regeneration because they would assume he wouldn't build much attack speed(which Shyvana would use to extend her ultimate), but he can buy for example Nashor's Tooth, so I don't like that reasoning at all. It just creates an additional problem. *All Hijacked ultimates and abilities that do not scale with ability power have their attack damage ratios converted to ability power ratios, scaling with 0.7% AP per 1% total AD, and 0.5% AP per 1% bonus AD.* Like i said no it's not.^ Shyvana only an actual ap scaling on the burst her E and her R. Her W does magic damage but scales with bonus AD which she generally she doesn't build. Op said they were able to kite them off as per the usual problem as shyvana would have so Q is negligible and doesn't scale with anything but bonus AD. Sylas also doesn't get the armor bonuses and has to build squishy because thats the usual gal nature of ap items if you wanna nuke someone. Your anger is unjustified
SanKakU (NA)
: I think it's a stupid mechanic and if I understand how his scaling works correctly, it means every AD scaling in her kit scales with his AP when he's transformed...which means he's doing roughly twice as much bonus stats damage as Shyvana is. Which means when he steals her ultimate, he's already much better than she is. However, if he steals it once in URF(due to the unnecessary interaction that you pointed out), it makes me wonder if he's going to be bugged out and not be able to level up abilities and/or get stats updated. If that's the case, it would mean he's too weak in ARAM even though OP in a regular game...unless he just waits until full inventory or end game time estimation to actually steal and use it. He's going to get some changes, that's for sure. It's a good thing he's entering free to play rotation because now everyone will get a chance to play him and maybe we'll not have to ban him quite so much and he can get fixed faster. Obviously, the unnecessary mana to fury interaction he has makes him too strong, but I suspect it's just the tip of the iceberg for what's wrong with him versus Shyvana.
> [{quoted}](name=SanKakU,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dEPtWnMo,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-02-05T13:52:22.148+0000) > > I think it's an extremely stupid mechanic and if I understand how his scaling works correctly, it means every AD scaling in her kit scales with his AP when he's transformed...which means he's doing roughly twice as much bonus stats damage as Shyvana is. Which means when he steals her ultimate, he's already much better than she is. > > However, if he steals it once in URF(due to the unnecessary interaction that you pointed out), it makes me wonder if he's going to be bugged out and not be able to level up abilities and/or get stats updated. If that's the case, it would mean he's too weak in ARAM even though OP in a regular game...unless he just waits until full inventory or end game time estimation to actually steal and use it. > > He's going to get some changes, that's for sure. It's a good thing he's entering free to play rotation because now everyone will get a chance to play him and maybe we'll not have to ban him quite so much and he can get fixed faster. Obviously, the unnecessary mana to fury interaction he has makes him too strong, but I suspect it's just the tip of the iceberg for what's wrong with him versus Shyvana. The ad conversion is suprisingly small and the added fact that he doesn't get the passive of said characters some of the ultimates even when a boost bonuses are added he really doesn't get much off of it. Which is why renekton ult is better to steal than a twitch or a vayne ult, who mind you both who would give flat ad bonuses, even late game. He more or less gets better ults from mages as most mages ults have insane scaling on ultimates and is benificial to him because he gets he gets the raw damage with no waste in a conversion matter. Actually now that I think about it he gets better ult scaling off of tanks as well too since tanks usually have inbuilt ap damage as like a mixture in case they have to fight another tank. tl;dr ult {{champion:31}} =instawins
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=205181825,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eL0a4Owy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-02T17:32:07.723+0000) > > https://imgur.com/a/SU2Li1u > > This picture pretty much summarizes Riot not giving a fuck. > > _Armor in 2019 OMEGALUL_ She hit you 6 times, got off 2 procs of Silver Bolts. I don't see the issue. Also that's wrong. 720 is not 32% of 2,575 it's 27.96%
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eL0a4Owy,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-02-02T18:54:12.147+0000) > > She hit you 6 times, got off 2 procs of Silver Bolts. > > I don't see the issue. > > Also that's wrong. > > 720 is not 32% of 2,575 it's 27.96% he also got hit with ori spells which means he was def out of position but would refuse to show that part cause that would make to much sense as he has no MR. selective choosing of points I suppose
: > [{quoted}](name=Kyovulpes,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=euIcEbI8,comment-id=00050000000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-31T09:06:36.261+0000) > > {{champion:131}} has 2 dashes that would still be in line to get to her. Actually unless you're specifically a Juggernaut, who usually can get kited but has some form of displacement/massive slow, your usually running a gap closer melee whose gonna be on top of them anyways. > > {{champion:91}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:39}} shit even {{champion:23}} can do so. > > So the arguement > > is bullshit, you and the OP should be a shamed for the cognitive dissonance you guys display its actually ridiculous lol those are specific champion counterpicks. this has nothing to do with mechanical counterplay. mechanical counterplay is agnostic towards the champion youre playing. for example a skillshot has mechanical counterplay. no matter which champion in the game youre playing, you can sidestep a skillshot. it might be easier for some champions than others, but every champion has chances to avoid the ability. it becomes an equal game of the champion trying to hit his skillshot, as for his opponent to avoid it. there are many different forms of mechanical counterplay in this game. skillshots the most obvious, but also windows of weakness as a result of long cooldowns or certain mechanics, or the champion is designed around some mini game like fiora, darius and most melee carries. im talking about a glaring win condition that the carry has to fulfill to actually be able to carry, and that his opponent has an equal chance of denying. for exampe, darius has to get 5 bleed stacks on a single target before he can pop off in a fight. fiora has to consistently telegraph her movement and hit enemy vitals. garen has to get in range of a specific target on the enemy team and work around his cooldown windows. velkoz has to repeatedly hit all of his skillshots on the opponent. urgot has to move in a specific pattern around the enemy to access his main steroid which is to get his leg procs. yorick has to prepare his graves to access his ghouls and get his full strength. him having no graves and ghouls available is a clear window of weakness for his opponent to fight him. mechanical counterplay makes a champion more fair when youre trying to approach a fight with them, and at the same gives a justification for powerful mechanics in their kits, because these mechanics are then not reliable, but conditional. accessing a form of uncounterable damage becomes a reward for outplaying your opponent, like in fioras case when she consistently procs enemy vitals, while her opponent is constnatly trying to outposition her and deny her those procs for example by hiding them inside walls or moving in ways to keep them outside of her reach during the fight. **vayne doesnt have such a justification. there is no special condition she has to fulfill to access her w passive. she plays the game exactly the same as if she didnt have it in her kit. she just auto attacks any target she can safely attack infront of her. she would be weaker, but she would play 100% the same. the mechanic itself doesnt alter her gameplay.** melee carries are generally designed around mechanics that create counterplay for their opponents. there are a few exceptions like pantheon, but thats because theyre horribly outdated design, and they are already on riots VGU list. but even {{champion:39}} is conceptually designed with counterplay in her kit. she has to get 4 stacks of her passive before she can access her full power. she has to hit her e on you to get the mark for her q reset. she has to hit her ult on you to get her second mark. if you dodge both of those skillshots youre cutting a significant portion of her trading power. if you engage her when shes not stacked up, youre increasing your chances to win a fight with her. irelia might still be problematic to balance, but even irelia is designed with some counterplay in her kit. riot took specific care that there is a glaring win condition she has to fulfull to access all of her power. again. vayne doesnt have such a condition. she actually has less counterplay than irelia. i want riot to hold marksmen to the same design standarts theyre holding melee carries. especially marksmen like vayne who are not even currently on their radar for gameplay updates, because for some reason they dont consider it a problem when a marksman doesnt have kit inherent counterplay. apparantly its only a problem when its a melee champion, for some reason.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=euIcEbI8,comment-id=000500000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-31T11:30:52.647+0000) > > those are specific champion counterpicks. this has nothing to do with mechanical counterplay. > > mechanical counterplay is agnostic towards the champion youre playing. > > for example a skillshot has mechanical counterplay. no matter which champion in the game youre playing, you can sidestep a skillshot. it might be easier for some champions than others, but every champion has chances to avoid the ability. it becomes an equal game of the champion trying to hit his skillshot, as for his opponent to avoid it. > > there are many different forms of mechanical counterplay in this game. skillshots the most obvious, but also windows of weakness as a result of long cooldowns or certain mechanics, or the champion is designed around some mini game like fiora, darius and most melee carries. > > im talking about a glaring win condition that the carry has to fulfill to actually be able to carry, and that his opponent has an equal chance of denying. > > for exampe, darius has to get 5 bleed stacks on a single target before he can pop off in a fight. fiora has to consistently telegraph her movement and hit enemy vitals. garen has to get in range of a specific target on the enemy team and work around his cooldown windows. velkoz has to repeatedly hit all of his skillshots on the opponent. urgot has to move in a specific pattern around the enemy to access his main steroid which is to get his leg procs. yorick has to prepare his graves to access his ghouls and get his full strength. him having no graves and ghouls available is a clear window of weakness for his opponent to fight him. > > mechanical counterplay makes a champion more fair when youre trying to approach a fight with them, and at the same gives a justification for powerful mechanics in their kits, because these mechanics are then not reliable, but conditional. accessing a form of uncounterable damage becomes a reward for outplaying your opponent, like in fioras case when she consistently procs enemy vitals, while her opponent is constnatly trying to outposition her and deny her those procs for example by hiding them inside walls or moving in ways to keep them outside of her reach during the fight. > > **vayne doesnt have such a justification. there is no special condition she has to fulfill to access her w passive. she plays the game exactly the same as if she didnt have it in her kit. she just auto attacks any target she can safely attack infront of her. she would be weaker, but she would play 100% the same. the mechanic itself doesnt alter her gameplay.** > > melee carries are generally designed around mechanics that create counterplay for their opponents. there are a few exceptions like pantheon, but thats because theyre horribly outdated design, and they are already on riots VGU list. > > but even {{champion:39}} is conceptually designed with counterplay in her kit. she has to get 4 stacks of her passive before she can access her full power. she has to hit her e on you to get the mark for her q reset. she has to hit her ult on you to get her second mark. if you dodge both of those skillshots youre cutting a significant portion of her trading power. if you engage her when shes not stacked up, youre increasing your chances to win a fight with her. irelia might still be problematic to balance, but even irelia is designed with some counterplay in her kit. riot took specific care that there is a glaring win condition she has to fulfull to access all of her power. again. vayne doesnt have such a condition. she actually has less counterplay than irelia. > > i want riot to hold marksmen to the same design standarts theyre holding melee carries. especially marksmen like vayne who are not even currently on their radar for gameplay updates, because for some reason they dont consider it a problem when a marksman doesnt have kit inherent counterplay. apparantly its only a problem when its a melee champion, for some reason. As stated by you before >do you even understand what mechanical counterplay is? its something that is in your control and not entirely in vaynes control. yet now > mechanical counterplay makes a champion more fair when youre trying to approach a fight with them, and at the same gives a justification for powerful mechanics in their kits, because these mechanics are then not reliable, but conditional. accessing a form of uncounterable damage becomes a reward for outplaying your opponent, like in fioras case when she consistently procs enemy vitals, while her opponent is constnatly trying to outposition her and deny her those procs for example by hiding them inside walls or moving in ways to keep them outside of her reach during the fight. Its funny cause the same thing applies to Vayne in exact same way if she doesn't get three procs she doesnt't do damage like that and if she misposition she's dead. She goes full glass cannon as most adc's do and is at the mercy of the team *like most ADCs*. If She doesn't hit E her early dueling power is dead to none and she gets notorious for having a lot of losing match-ups. But of course you know this people have told you this on the thread, so instead lets look at the just one of the people you just named that has this "mechanical counterplay" {{champion:122}} Yes he must get 5 stacks but look what he gets out of it *A Displacement that is 5 times more than his attack range* *A 90% percent slow thats on a 3 second cool down* oh ok so the counter play is you kite him right cause that's in your control right? {{summoner:51}} +phase. Oops I guess it isn't anymore. Counter-play gone like that but you knew this already People pick and choose what the word counter play is huh? Anyways the cognitive dissonance is starting to becoming really sad to watch as you try to go on with this to prove a faulty point thats clearly a bias and not constructive at all. As Ive said before >Actually unless you're specifically a Juggernaut, who usually can get kited but has some form of displacement/massive slow, your usually running a gap closer melee whose gonna be on top of them anyways. {{champion:517}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:92}} ALL have multiple gap closers {{champion:57}} {{champion:516}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:421}} {{champion:20}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:75}} All have massive slows/displacement It's ok to be full of shit dog lmao{{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
: > [{quoted}](name=FrozenFrostFyre,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=euIcEbI8,comment-id=000500000001,timestamp=2019-01-30T17:11:08.709+0000) > > This argument is so flawed and the only way you will ever be able to understand is going and playing adc's so you understand the massive stat differences between melee and range. > > I would fucking love for range carries to get the same standards as melee that would be a massive improvement. > > Yi gets q resets and can dash around and be untargetable while also 2 hitting sqishies making him just as bad if not worse than vayne too btw. Darius can kill 1 person with his r to get a 1auto 5 stacks onto anyone else. Garen is extremely simplistic to play so he obviously gets less power. Fiora vitals dive her huge % hp truedamage so of course she has to hit them correctly, but with a low CD dash as reset and repose it's a fluid and powerful kit. Half the characters in the game have damage that you can avoid by dodging their stuff so the aatrox comment feels really hallarious that he is the one and not someone like xerath who has 4 skillshots. Or just mage chars in general. > > Adcs have to play around divers/assassin's that can kill them instantly at all stanges of the game doesn't even matter I'd the zed is 0/4 still can one shot the ADC. Positioning is more important on ADC than any other class in the game and out of every class typically adc's lack the most cc. Or it's gated behind their long r CD or specific conditions like vayne condemn. The only "condition" on vayne's point and click self peel is whether she knocks you back and stuns you, or merely knocks you back and slows you. Honestly, there is no counterplay to that. That knockback is all she needs at most. If anything, her E needs to become a skill shot, or her W an active as Critmaster suggested. Oh, and if adcs had same standards as melees, no melee would be viable, ever, so don't even wish such a horrible fate on league
> The only "condition" on vayne's point and click self peel is whether she knocks you back and stuns you, or merely knocks you back and slows you. Honestly, there is no counterplay to that. That knockback is all she needs at most. If anything, her E needs to become a skill shot, or her W an active as Critmaster suggested. Oh, and if adcs had same standards as melees, no melee would be viable, ever, so don't even wish such a horrible fate on league {{champion:131}} has 2 dashes that would still be in line to get to her. Actually unless you're specifically a Juggernaut, who usually can get kited but has some form of displacement/massive slow, your usually running a gap closer melee whose gonna be on top of them anyways. {{champion:91}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:39}} shit even {{champion:23}} can do so. So the arguement >there is no counterplay to that is bullshit, you and the OP should be a shamed for the cognitive dissonance you guys display its actually ridiculous lol
: > [{quoted}](name=Tormentula,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=euIcEbI8,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-01-30T00:27:59.760+0000) > > She does have counterplay; vayne spotting and abusing her early game. are you kidding? relying on vayne to make a mistake has nothing to do with counterplay. what if both her and her opponent dont make mistakes? she just always wins? bullshit. if melee carries are all designed around kit inbuilt counterplay, then ranged carries need it even more. there needs to be some sort of weakness in her kit that you can abuse. some window of weakness, some sort of mechanic that you can outplay. the only thing that comes close to it is the wall stun of her e. the only problem is, that the displacement on its own is so powerful that it barely matters if she even lands the stun. being able to just point and click disengage already wins her the fight most of the time.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=euIcEbI8,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-01-30T00:48:42.398+0000) > > are you kidding? relying on vayne to make a mistake has nothing to do with counterplay. what if both her and her opponent dont make mistakes? she just always wins? bullshit. > > if melee carries are all designed around kit inbuilt counterplay, then ranged carries need it even more. > > there needs to be some sort of weakness in her kit that you can abuse. some window of weakness, some sort of mechanic that you can outplay. > > the only thing that comes close to it is the wall stun of her e. the only problem is, that the displacement on its own is so powerful that it barely matters if she even lands the stun. being able to just point and click disengage already wins her the fight most of the time. There are melees that are the exact same way. Jax in particular is the exact same way and I don't see a you posting about inbuilt counter play Also > do you even understand what mechanical counterplay is? its something that is in your control and not entirely in vaynes control. So doesn't that include just blowing her up? Kinda defeats the purpose of the shit post. lol Glad riot doesn't listen to boards.
KnifeCat (OCE)
: Sylas might be the biggest balance nightmare in the history of League
So after watching the constant interaction videos it seems like there's a decent balance there already. Note you don't get to use the passive of things since certain ults are more for utility or require you to use your ult to enhance the rest of your kit (i.e twitch). He doesn't seem to get a lot of power of ults like jhins probably because the missing health part is unique to the fact jhin would have high AD to abuse it, much more than a sylas is willing to invest in. Some AD ults seem entirely useless and some ap enemies ults seem unrealistic to get a bonus affect out of considering how ranked and draft work (ie using a teammate syndra's balls to amp your own damage when ulting which would require 2 syndras) Just a thought.
AjXtar (EUW)
: I too love getting "outplayed" by getting hit with 2 abilities and going back to the fountain waiting to respawn. "much counterplay, much skill" Also, there are 4 champions who one shot the other and not just kassadin.
> [{quoted}](name=AjXtar,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Xjb593P,comment-id=00340000,timestamp=2019-01-07T15:53:58.168+0000) > > I too love getting "outplayed" by getting hit with 2 abilities and going back to the fountain waiting to respawn. "much counterplay, much skill" > > Also, there are 4 champions who one shot the other and not just kassadin. I mean... again if you build no resist you can kind of suspect that. That kassadin seem fed super fed compared to his probable Katarina counter part who is exactly 2 levels behind him meaning that he stomped lane, and that spilled over to the jgl/bot as that is a usually mid lane challenger practice esp when playing assassins. He's level 16 against a bunch squishies who have low resist and he's a known hyper carry with a lot of gold on him. I'm confused on why you think those low resist targets should live in any scenario? There is literally no one on those teams that were design to tank any hits.
Lovelle (NA)
: Even with armor/MR you still die pretty damn fast. I can't count how many times I've ulted as {{champion:48}} and died before even half of the duration (4 seconds). Resistances are pretty weak right now, probably the weakest they've been since the Cleaver meta back in S3.
> [{quoted}](name=Lovelle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Xjb593P,comment-id=00340001,timestamp=2019-01-07T18:32:45.446+0000) > > Even with armor/MR you still die pretty damn fast. I can't count how many times I've ulted as {{champion:48}} and died before even half of the duration (4 seconds). Resistances are pretty weak right now, probably the weakest they've been since the Cleaver meta back in S3. Honestly who are you ulting and what are you building in this meta? Usually there aren't that many tanks in game and if you are running {{item:3748}} {{item:3071}} into resist your sitting an easy 3-3.5k health with decent durability even if you like doing garbage ults on carries. If you manage to get your E and then Q on the right carry you've manage to reduce their overall team damage to you. So no realistically if you've built correctly you easily outlive a measly 4 seconds into a fight. Though nice try.
AjXtar (EUW)
: Burst meta summarized in one video
its a bunch of squishies who haven't built'd ANY magic resist to deal with their opponent.. so nothing new? of course tho its the same community going "wElL hOw aM I sUpPoSe teW cArRy" on a shit post that vaildates their bad decision making so Im not surprised. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
: Other classes has nothing to do with it. and remember that when adcs crying that they dieing to tanks with only 230 base damage. or irelia with q doing 130 base damage on a q and needing to stack 3 q's with other spells over 3 seconds
> [{quoted}](name=LordGeovanni,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=MHTPVPWU,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000100010000,timestamp=2018-12-25T23:35:13.851+0000) > > Other classes has nothing to do with it. and remember that when adcs crying that they dieing to tanks with only 230 base damage. or irelia with q doing 130 base damage on a q and needing to stack 3 q's with other spells over 3 seconds Other classes do have something to do with it because if you're concerned about how the adc can "burst" (after having to wait after 3 items) that means you are playing something other than a Tank and usually that consist of someone that has a lower armor count lower then 150. Your argument is falling apart at the seams, the problem with tanks is they did loads of damage at the time while being unkillable because of how most tanks get a form of health effecting damage (min/max) while still never having to sacrifice a single stat that made them the class they are. >No a Tank with tabi and a cloth armor/ruby crystal should not be able to 1v1 a 2 item crit carry in the same breath >if you're anything other than a tank, without a lick of armor/health combine you should not be able to outlive someone who entire existence is to amplify their damage to deal with such characters like tanks. If it can kill the tank it can kill you ever faster, get over yourself trying to have your cake and eat it too.
: Adcs job is constant damage not huge damage and this is the misinformation that lead to them being able to do these redicilous amounts of damage and doing it consistently 2.4 times a second
> [{quoted}](name=LordGeovanni,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=MHTPVPWU,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2018-12-19T05:01:28.462+0000) > > Adcs job is constant damage not huge damage and this is the misinformation that lead to them being able to do these redicilous amounts of damage and doing it consistently 2.4 times a second constant dmg on **_Tankier _** targets if you're a squishy with no defense tf are you expecting a love tap? Actually criminally insane.
Roark1 (NA)
: Riot's solution to S8 adc's is buffing them...?
Cause the community don't like un-killable walls that are tanks because their hamster like minds can not register that they should deal with them in game by buying items that optimize against tanks and riot realizes this so might as well throw more damage in there for the memes since most of the same community are just filled with carry mains who are just gonna complain that, something killed them, they don't like it and want it gone.
: > [{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X4OPx6kN,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-12-15T13:52:39.589+0000) > > wHy {{champion:245}} dOeS {{champion:7}} aKaLi {{champion:238}} hAvE {{champion:105}} sO {{champion:121}} mUcH {{champion:91}} sAfEtY Only 2 of those have sustain, Kha needs it for because he is a jungler and he sacs mobility compared to other assassins for it and Ekko is tied to his Ulti which has a meaningful CD
> [{quoted}](name=H1de on blue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X4OPx6kN,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-12-15T14:45:50.763+0000) > > Only 2 of those have sustain, Kha needs it for because he is a jungler and he sacs mobility compared to other assassins for it and Ekko is tied to his Ulti which has a meaningful CD kha doesnt need it tbh since his Q provides enough dmg to clear in a healthy manner on camps thats not krugs and chickens and 30s on an ult is the same thing that got lux put in the dirt season 6. To simply put not meaningful enough and should be gutted
: The boards is mostly hate threads now because Riot doesn't actually address the problems. People say: "Ardent Censor OP, Riot please nerf", *Riot nerfs 6 months later*. "Akali's shroud is really abusive and needs gutting", *Riot doesn't touch shroud*. "Starting damage stats are way too high, nerf starting damage stats", *Riot does no starting damage nerfs* "Mages don't have a real keystone" *Riot makes no real keystone* And the list goes on and on about how Riot just completely ignores feedback. This has gotten to the point where the boards already know Riot is not going to listen to feedback, so in return they don't bother saying "Fix X", but instead say "Riot's team is a joke". Honestly, I don't disagree with the boards either. Imagine you're playing a game of League Ranked, and your adc is overextending constantly without vision, dying all the time. You tell the adc to stop overextending, but they dont listen, thus the adc ends up ruining the game for all 4 of your team mates because they wont listen. Which in return, turns you into a rather toxic player because all they had to do was listen.
> [{quoted}](name=The Aggressor,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=E6BeJEiw,comment-id=000000000002,timestamp=2018-12-02T20:00:24.734+0000) > > The boards is mostly hate threads now because Riot doesn't actually address the problems. > > People say: > "Ardent Censor OP, Riot please nerf", *Riot nerfs 6 months later*. > "Akali's shroud is really abusive and needs gutting", *Riot doesn't touch shroud*. > "Starting damage stats are way too high, nerf starting damage stats", *Riot does no starting damage nerfs* > "Mages don't have a real keystone" *Riot makes no real keystone* > > And the list goes on and on about how Riot just completely ignores feedback. This has gotten to the point where the boards already know Riot is not going to listen to feedback, so in return they don't bother saying "Fix X", but instead say "Riot's team is a joke". Honestly, I don't disagree with the boards either. Imagine you're playing a game of League Ranked, and your adc is overextending constantly without vision, dying all the time. You tell the adc to stop overextending, but they dont listen, thus the adc ends up ruining the game for all 4 of your team mates because they wont listen. Which in return, turns you into a rather toxic player because all they had to do was listen. But they do listen? *riot armor pen to much dmg* fixes it to make it weaker by scaling *riot leathality too little dmg* fixes it by making it stronger *riot brusiers do to much dmg* makes bramble vest *omg riot! tanks stomp out brusiers* makes conq *omg tanks have no place in this game* riot *face palms* I've only been playing since seasons six and seen more rotation in this meta alone cause riot DOES give you what you want. This season alone we've been through 3 different metas with three roles/classes having the spotlight in the course of 10-11 months guess no one would notice cause "my main champ(s) die, I lose, fix it rito" This game just needs better players lmao
: “Giving up 1/2 deaths feels like the end of the world” “The game swings from +5k one team to +5k another team” While not ignoring the gross exaggeration in this post, do you not see the contradiction? You’re making an argument about an unstoppable snowball in one paragraph, and then two breaks later, you’re talking about rubberbanding comebacks.
> [{quoted}](name=Spank the Fox,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JcJgnNVd,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2018-12-02T16:28:12.647+0000) > > “Giving up 1/2 deaths feels like the end of the world” > > “The game swings from +5k one team to +5k another team” > > While not ignoring the gross exaggeration in this post, do you not see the contradiction? > > You’re making an argument about an unstoppable snowball in one paragraph, and then two breaks later, you’re talking about rubberbanding comebacks. welcome to boards where they also want later games just without **_late game carries _** and also in the same realm somehow tanks be durable, able to still be a threat, but don't want them doing crazy damage or CCing them for too long, I guess they just stand there I guess? crazy part is that whole post, while we can see is contradictory, still made sense to him so hey just another rant I guess
: ##The problem with tanks in a pvp setting like LoL is that your enemies are real people not some mobs that will focus you because you aggroed them... It's the same reason Rammus needs a point and click taunt, because if Rammus doesn't force someone to attack him nobody is going to pay attention to him. People would just avoid him and proceed to attack and kill his squishy teammates and because there is no point in focusing someone who has a lot of health and resistances and takes a long time to kill, Rito gave tanks either lots of CC or lots of CC and DMG so that they can pose a threat to people and give them a reason to attack and focus them. ##Problem with that is that now you champions who have A lot of health, a lot resistances and plenty of CC and Dmg...
> [{quoted}](name=Smokin Penguin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uFVhAnww,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-11-13T19:39:53.585+0000) > > ##The problem with tanks in a pvp setting like LoL is that your enemies are real people not some mobs that will focus you because you aggroed them... > > It's the same reason Rammus needs a point and click taunt, because if Rammus doesn't force someone to attack him nobody is going to pay attention to him. > > People would just avoid him and proceed to attack and kill his squishy teammates and because there is no point in focusing someone who has a lot of health and resistances and takes a long time to kill, Rito gave tanks either lots of CC or lots of CC and DMG so that they can pose a threat to people and give them a reason to attack and focus them. > > ##Problem with that is that now you champions who have A lot of health, a lot resistances and plenty of CC and Dmg... Don't know why people are down voting you cause that's is exactly what happen when aftershock got buff early into the season. Tanks got huge rewards for playing their exact role. >They got more sustain and resist >in turn got more rotations off of their spells cause no one would focus them >community in turn goes "too much damage too much CC" >Tanks then got punished in solo Q by bruisers (and basically anyone with infinity edge cause of garbage players being garbage) And with no tanks to soak up the damage, and a bunch of people just wanting to play carries guess what the main complaint was? "too much dmg too much CC" Rinse. Cycle. Repeat. This community is as bad as the balance team they chastise. Saying that there's cognitive dissonance at this point would be an understatement. I've said before tho its just a bunch of squishies trying to justify how they should be able to Not be squished, everyone be at equal power, and some how they should never be countered but always have counter-play available community logic at best {{sticker:zombie-brand-mindblown}}
nelogis (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=WrQJyMtO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-09-13T08:50:13.204+0000) > > Only reason irelia has a good winrate right now is probably because she beats urgot, Darius, GP and Akali.......she loses to pretty much everything else that is even remotely popular. > > Infinite resets? If she spams Q it does no damage, trinity doesnt reset in time. > > 50% damage reduction for....2 seconds? Wont do shit against focused fire, go play her and you´ll notice. > > It doesnt give the durability of a seju with stoneplate and aftershock which is pretty much what you need to survive enemy backline when you dive in which is pretty much what every melee needs to win these days if they dont snowball. > > 1v1? She gets stomped by Jax, camilie and Fiora.........hells even poppy and Garen wreck her easily. > > > Passive? Lategame its some bonus magic damage on hit that eats through shields and barely anything else,.....how op. /s > > > OP i honestly recommend you go and play Irelia for a while, you´ll quickly realize her weakpoints and how to abuse them hard. > > Irelia has her best matchup being Ornn with a 58% winrate into it, other being vayne and Heimer are her best ones. > > She beats the shield reliant tank and pretty much all the ranged picks of toplane? Woah its almost like she was made to do it.......while losing to nearly every single melee. > > > GP also has his best matchup as Ornn, and he has a 55% winrate there, and 54% into 2 other matchups......but he also wins against several melee. > > Jax has 3+ matchups where he has 56% winrate going all the way up to 60% winrate, and i know he wins a ton of others ontop even without looking. > > Fiora rapes anything that isnt Yi or Tryndamere so damn easily lategame, barely any effort on her part, she can just split and post some point she can 1v2 without much effort as long as the enemy top+jungle doesnt hardcounter her.....like poppy+some high damage pick or such. > > > OP you wana call irelia OP? Please look over some other champs first, her performance is absolutely nothing noteworthy at all, even jax is better at teamfights because no auto attacks can kill him when he has E up no matter what, and he can even move and hit things with it. > > Free resistance bonuses for using ulti, and his Q cooldown goes down so low that it hits like 4 seconds or less which means spammable mobility. > urgot, Darius, GP and Akali She literally doesn't beat any of those in laning phase. Urgot can buffer her only CC and can knock her out of the defensive thing Darius rapes her and knocks her out of the defensive thing GP pcks Grasp / Ignite / Corrputing and bullies her Akali is just a skill matchup but I'm assuming thanks to the smoke that Akali has the upper hand since most of Irelias damage is point and click. The problem isn't her laning phase, it's her stupid scaling. Oh she is 0/5? Don't worry she just finished Triforce and is level 11 anything squishy that isn't an Assassin is still fucked against her. 0/5 Urgot is a joke 0/5 Darius is a joke 0/5 pre lvl 13 GP is a joke But naaaaaahh 0/5 Irelia is still a threat She needs to be punished more heavily when getting behind. That's her main problem. GP used to have the same problem back in Season 7, got fixed pretty fast.
> [{quoted}](name=nelogis,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=WrQJyMtO,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2018-09-13T09:47:34.207+0000) > > She literally doesn't beat any of those in laning phase. > > Urgot can buffer her only CC and can knock her out of the defensive thing > Darius rapes her and knocks her out of the defensive thing > GP pcks Grasp / Ignite / Corrputing and bullies her > Akali is just a skill matchup but I'm assuming thanks to the smoke that Akali has the upper hand since most of Irelias damage is point and click. > > The problem isn't her laning phase, it's her stupid scaling. > Oh she is 0/5? > Don't worry she just finished Triforce and is level 11 anything squishy that isn't an Assassin is still fucked against her. > > 0/5 Urgot is a joke > 0/5 Darius is a joke > 0/5 pre lvl 13 GP is a joke > > But naaaaaahh > 0/5 Irelia is still a threat > > She needs to be punished more heavily when getting behind. That's her main problem. > > GP used to have the same problem back in Season 7, got fixed pretty fast. Actually fucking this I've heard of 1 item wakeups but god damn
: I am done with this patch
You must be playing Crit carries which are ass right now. My win rate on MF has been so high after this patch that I for sure will be able to see myself getting to high Gold even maybe plat the end of this season. This post just tells me two things * You were a crit carry who abuse the massive sustain of Fleet and Dorans shield * [edited by mod] didn't know how to take your advantage in lane just waited to take advantage for the items. I rarely get carried on MF and always do the Carrying Shit even on Sivir cause of {{item:3508}} I know that im going to carry the game Ridiculously hard. This past patch is just exposing peeps who were in for the free LP adc crit wave and now most of them are gonna suffer for it. I'm ENJOYING THIS fuck Hyper carries. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
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Kyovulpes

Level 170 (NA)
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