: Sunday afternoon ARAMs (NA server PST)
Gee gee. We finally won one. :D I'm out for today!
: Sunday afternoon ARAMs (NA server PST)
Started game 1. Will check DMs when I get out after we CRUSH THEM.
: Can't make it, but good to see you again. What are you up to these days?
> [{quoted}](name=DrCyanide,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=If2c6oEU,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-11-11T23:31:53.542+0000) > > Can't make it, but good to see you again. What are you up to these days? In 2018 I've been on R&D doing secret things. :))) #SuperSecretStuff
  Rioter Comments
Bazerka (NA)
: Hows everyone's Friday?
Not bad.. just trolling your desk while you're not here. :3
: The votes are in - dev starts March 14! (Team Jam Packed - Thunderdome XI)
Here. We. Go. (•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)
: It's the last day of League as we know it
: OMG you can read what the full letters say!!! I muuust know.
Here's a higher res. Should be able to read. <3 https://i.imgur.com/uBAxsou.jpg
: Very nice summoner! Why don't you submit that to the showca- Oh, you're a Rioter. Mail it to me. I love Piltover. Plz.
Yeah I'll get right on that. Shipping would cost more than making it. :P
  Rioter Comments
The Alistar getting red carded at 0:36 lol {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
  Rioter Comments
: If you're making more star guardian skins for this mode in the future I would like to see more bruisers or tanks able to be played (e.g. Leona, Sejuani) since the only tank you can play in this mode is Poppy.
Star Guardian blue buff come on Rito.... o.O
: Is there any need to have the missions in chain compared to all at once? It felt pretty bad that I got my first S(+!) rank in invasion before I actually had the mission available to get credit for it. If it's progressively harder version of the same thing (Kill X critters, kill 5X critters, Kill 10X critters!) sure a chain makes sense since theres no chance of 'wasting' a run, but not getting credit for an unrelated challenge feels pretty bad. Have any strategies emerged in invasion that you didn't anticipate and maybe make things easier than first expected? e.g. on-hit builds (esp combined with an ardent user) seem to be the dominant strategy, as opposed to more conventional crit builds. Also I agree that premade requirements should not be a thing. Difficulty levels that implicitly require a premade are fine, but if I happen to get an S rank with 4 randoms, or just happen to get the right comp (perhaps through champ select organization), it's again lame to not get credit unless I want to leave the match and then try to invite everyone into a proper premade.
We had 'on-hit builds' on our radar for Lulu, but are surprised to see people trying them on Miss Fortune as well. :P Agree that getting an "S Rank" with 4 randoms and not receiving the mission feels pretty bad.
: >Questions like "Would you ever do an adventure mode?" or "Will you make a Diablo style dungeon?" are su~uper lofty. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBrNGYE0n4s It's super lofty guys, Riot's just a small indy company. You have to be as badass as Hi Rez to do something like that :( Please understand.
We really liked the gear system SMITE had in that mode which persisted between runs. It was pretty cool and really gave that 'raiding feel'. :D Maybe if we do another swoop on PvE in League we can talk about adding another layer like that (assuming it makes sense).
mikeov (EUNE)
: I apologize in advance for a question that isn't related to Invasion, buuuuut I really want to ask: is there still no ETA for the eventual comeback of Hexakill and One For All?
No ETA. :( I'm still very sad about those two. :(
: >but there's a discussion to be had about whether or not that should 'require' a premade. Can we at least set a minimum instead of it being a 5 man premade only next time? Like a duo minimum (obviously including you) or something. Getting one friend to play with you is much easier than grabbing 4 people (Some might be busy with life or not even interested in playing).
That's one way we could get at it. We could even just remove the requirement entirely. Depending on the style of PvE content, knowing that players are smart, most would just figure out it's advantageous to be in a group anyway, so they'd naturally form small groups like you describe.
Trash1 (EUNE)
: How difficult is it to make a whole new game mode in the current leagu engine?
Depends entirely on the scope and style of mode. The Invasion mode in particular was very complex, as this style of PvE isn't really something that had been done before in LoL. Modes that are closer to regular league, like say Blood Moon, might not be as technically demanding, but could still require a lot of design time during prototype to find the mode's final shape. Unfortunately not as simple as being able to say "It's X months!", but it's very case-by-case.
  Rioter Comments
: >swap char on death Wait, what?! This is something you can do? Do you mean swapping characters present on your team between players on death, or if you mean between all champions? Can we get some more info about you guys testing something as wild as this? I wouldn't mind an Ascension-like mode where you could choose between AD, AP and Tank champion pools and have it change champion of that type every death. It could be entertaining and the RNG wouldn't be as much of an issue thanks to the recent champion reworks.
After discussing it, we realised there's actually a heap of technical hurdles that would require significant re-architecture or LoL to make this particular mode possible. Even _if_ it was possible, there's a lot of design problems to solve too. I do like your idea though of locking to either AD or AP to lessen the burden on itemisation every spawn. :D
: If you dont try and balance rotating game modes, then why did you add the All random aspect to try and balance the mode? Also, any possibility it could work like doombots with 2 ques for the mode?
Adding randomness doesn't balance a mode. EG: Just because you random Yasuo in ARURF doesn't make him any stronger, he's still just Yasuo. :/ It does add good emergent variety though. Doom Bots is providing 2 difficulty levels for the same experience. These are both interesting and distinct in their own right, so having both makes sense. ARURF has ended up just being more of a straight upgrade to old URF, so less compelling.
: Does this mean Black Market Brawlers eventually? :D
I mentioned BMB in this Ask Riot if you're curious. http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2017/05/ask-riot-new-summoner-spells/ TL;DR: We took BMB for a long walk in the woods... :|
: Now That 10 bans is live , can we please forget ARURF and bring back the original URF ?
We thought about lots of different approaches to try and solve the champion clumping on old URF. Bans, restricted champ pool, random picks, swap char on death, etc. RE bans in particular, if the goal is to not get tired of the same 10 champs every game, 10 bans really only kicks the can down the road, from picks #7, #8, #9 to picks #11, #12, #13. :/ For the first few games it might feel better with "4 extra champs gone", but eventually the same usual suspects would continue to appear. The delta between 'strong and weak' is just so high in URF, and the pool of "hilariously strong" champs is probably closer to 30~35. ARURF doesn't actually do anything to alleviate how OP or "toxic" a champion is. We don't set out to balance RGM modes (except for CC hard lock exceptions like Zilean, Brand, etc), so if you roll a "good" champ in ARURF, they still do their thing. :D It does inject more variety from game to game though, and ARURF has proven to be more popular than base URF + has a better champ spread. While I'm in here, wanted to also mention that we still want to get older modes working in the new client (while making new modes at the same time)! One For All and Hexakill: TT aren't dead, they just aren't compatible with the new client yet. While we build new modes in parallel, we're trying to stand up those older modes too. We don't like using Poro King and Ascension so much during the first half of this year, but we felt it was a better alternative than switching RGM off while we worked in the background. We're also able to add the newer modes from this year into the mix with Blood Moon (just ran) and Dark Star (on PBE coming up next for 7.14). Our goal is still to get a wider variety of modes into the stable so there's something fresh to play on the weekends when you're in the mood. :D
GigaPube (OCE)
: ayyyy its not just answers, but PLENTY OF ANSWERS. thank you for this
: When it comes to modes like Definitely not Dominion, is it just a thing of it not being built for the new client for it not being back in the rotation yet or was that mode considered a failure in playrate?
Definitely Not Dominion is a tough one. Because of the map it uses, there's some unique snowflake maintenance to stand it up again, and it didn't exactly rock the boat the way DarK Star did. I realise it's not the most satisfying answer, but it's tough to say "Yay" or "Nay" to this one yet, before we stand up other modes.
Rengooo (OCE)
: Not sure if it was a popular mode or not, but I really miss TTL Hexakill, the mayhem was just fantastic!
We miss that one too. It's on our list for conversion to the new client!
: Lets get those community vs rioters games going again so i can ban Bard in one for all again ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ
This guy. This guy right here. .. he gets it. :)
: I was really looking forward to Custom Dark Star matches between Boards Volunteers and the community, so hopefully they are reenabled next time around :3
We want to get back to those too. ..coz we GONNA WIN! :P
Imhotep0 (EUW)
: How do you feel about going back to changing the gamemode every week instead of 2 weeks? I don't actually know if that's the more popular view or not, but I'd certainly enjoy more rotation
Until very recently, we used to do this weekly instead of bi-weekly. It ended up being wa~ay more maintenance than we anticipated though, as it meant getting 2 modes active for each patch. The current cadence of 1 per patch is slightly less variety for you guys, but means we have the time to make other cool new things behind the scenes to release earlier (ala Bloodmoon & Dark Star).
: For Doom Bots of Doom: Are we unable to select the level of doom or did I just not know how? What level of doom is the teemoing?
We removed the function to 'select' your difficulty in the Gauntlet, as it turns out the overwhelming majority of people were just in their to try their luck at Lv100. We also changed the queue name to reflect this. The Teemoing is roughly equivalent to Lv25
: What are your thoughts on possibly leaving all game modes available in custom games? Also could we please have regular urf back? I would rather have the choice to pick what I want to play than leaving it up to whoever gets randomed the better champ. Maybe we could have both urf and arurf at the same time as a solution.
**RE: Leaving all modes available in customs:** This would actually be a _huge_ amount of ongoing maintenance to do (we wouldn't even be able to make new modes anymore it would take so much time). Each time a mode comes back, we have to QA it against the current patch, bugfix, update for any new changes, champion reworks, new champs, item tweaks, etc. LoL updating every 2 weeks is great for being able to constantly update and balance the game, but it means the burden of maintaining content is quite high, so we have to be super intentional about what to bring back. **RE: URF vs ARURF:** One of the problems with URF was stagnant champion diversity. We would see the same champs over and over in URF games, and players rightly got fatigued of it (Zed vs Fizz anyone?). ARURF doesn't have this downside anymore. Other players mentioned that they enjoyed being able to pick their champion in URF as a chance to "practice their favourite champs", but we also now have the Practice Tool as an even more robust solution than the old URF mode.
: Realistically speaking, Staff of Flowing Water became a mastery.
Ah yeah kinda, with the "Explorer" mastery. :D
: Hey L4T3NCY can I ask for your thoughts on what might happen to the items from BMB if you guys don't want to bring it back in its existing iteration according to the last Ask Riot, cuz i really liked Staff of Flowing Water
The "Staff of Flowing Water" huh? Not the BMB item I would have expected someone to be still excited about lol. :D The items for now are living in #gamedev entropy. If we did an "item focused mode" we could always reuse them. They're not going anywhere (for now). I doubt it will show up in SR proper though, as the Systems team who makes the items would have made a move by now (been 2 years?) if they thought it was a good addition.
: I feel like you guys lowered their damage too much though.
That might be true this time around, but they're both tough "feast or famine" balancing acts. If we err too far on the famine side, they feel kinda bad to play. However the way bot AI logic ignores them, means if they are of any consequence at all, they become a 'must pick'. Then players aren't really picking them to "have fun playing Sion", they're doing it to exploit a bug and trivialise Lv100. :( I agree though, I'm not sure it feels great to die, become a zombie, then do pretty much nothing. We might pull this for the next time round on Doom Bots and explore another solution that doesn't feel like a "trap" to play.
  Rioter Comments
: I think it's cool that you guys are experimenting openly like this. If you bring back Ryze portals just care of queasiness effects... {{summoner:3}}
Someone did actually bring this up. That camera snapping when they're on the map.. o.O
Kai Guy (NA)
: I hope yall go ham and keep taking risks. If its awesome community's gonna get behind it and when its a flop yall get data on what to avoid. Glhf mate.
This guy. This guy right here.
  Rioter Comments
: I have now discovered the scandalous secrets of some of the Rioters in Riot Games...
Nothing to see here... https://media.giphy.com/media/ebuZ7sDhZcSJO/giphy.gif
: Honestly the experimental "random portals" on the PBE for Poro King would be nice for Butchers Bridge...Minus the King of course. So it would be us picking our champs (after a ban phase) and then fight on Butchers Bridge with random portals moving us all over the place.
We talked about this exact idea (but not on Butcher's Bridge, just using regular Howling Abyss for now). The current test on PBE is _very_ experimental, so we might try this idea out too at some point next week.
: Any hope for nemesis draft as a spin on other alternate game modes, rather than a mode itself? e.g. Nemesis URF AR is pretty good I suppose, but still has the issue of people with small champ pools (unless AR picks from the entire champ pool now and I've missed it), and the implication that people probably know the champs they own. Adventures with champions you potentially have literally never played before makes for spicy adventures.
We talked about this one, "using Nemesis Draft as a mutator on other modes". The place we always landed though was, "ultimately you end up playing with a bunch of champs you don't like." This can be true in ARAM sometimes too, but at least the system is fair and you also had a relatively equal chance to also get a champ you like (assuming equal like/dislike champ proportions). When it's a human giving out the champs though, it's almost 100% champs that _nobody_ likes (except that one Urgod). To be fair, that is the gimmick of the mode, but I'm not sure that would be an improvement on modes where you're rather just pick/roll something fun instead.
: what about butchers bridge?
That map was gorgeous.. I'm kinda sad we haven't used it even _once_ since Bilgewater. Would love to find a way to bring it back!
: OT But since you are the game mode guy, will you guys also continue to improve upon practice tool as well
Yes, planning a light quality-of-life update to Practice Tool sometime soon(tm). :D
: But you guys literally added the All random to urf to balance it...
ARURF does nothing to balance URF. If you roll an OP champ they're still just the same, their dmg, HP, etc is unchanged. ARURF tackles the stagnation and unhealthy engagement we saw with regular URF. It seemed to do pretty well the last time we ran it, so we're running it again in 7.4.
: Hey L4T3NCY can i ask for your thoughts on adding bans to AURF since I know some people want it or does it defeat the Random purpose
I'm not against the idea of bans in ARURF. We should make sure they're for the right reason though. Our goal is never to "balance" alternate game modes, but if they play nicely with the reroll/trade system's existing mitigation of the champion RNG, then maybe.
: Hey Latency! Thanks for the brain dump! It answered what few questions I had, save for one. Is Nemesis Draft still on the table for getting added into the regular RGM lineup?
I'll say "doubtful" on Nemesis Draft. We ran it again one more time last year just to check, and it didn't seem super compelling. Good maybe for a laugh or two but, not really a whole alternate game mode. :P
  Rioter Comments
: Soon™. Memes aside though, fantastic work riot. We appreciate it.
I eat memes for breakfast. :3
: So with the cooldown refresh thing does that mean you have basically 100% cdr and you can spam your abilities all nice and urf style? :3 Or do you have to manually click a button to refresh your abilities
We currently have it as a toggle that "auto-refreshes" as you describe. We might need to add a "1-click" style button as well though, to allow practice of re-cast skills (EG: Leblanc practice).
: Will you be able to play with your friends or is it just solo?
It's a single-player tool. We've focused on something for players to practice their champion mechanics, how to jungle, etc.
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