Statz55 (NA)
: Hello! Your costume is awesome!! I've been trying to find a project ashe cosplay costume for comic con and halloween this year. I don't know how to make this kind of stuff. But I was wondering woukd you be willing to make a costume and I will purchase the costume?
Sorry it took so long for me to answer! I don't do commissions for the sheer fact of I really am just starting cosplay. This is my second costume.
: For the love of God, what are you doing. Winrate: the ratio of your wins to your losses. If you talk about someone's winrate then you generally talk about his total winrate (wins/losses ratio in current season). You could specify winrate of the last 20 games, then it's the win/loss ratio of your last 20 games. Imagine two platin 1 players, both have exactly 50 LP and have been stuck at 50 LP for their last 100 games while maintaining a 50% winrate over those 100 games. One of those two got placed in Bronze 5 (player a) and stomped his way until platin 1 over 100 games while maintaining a 100% winrate over those 100 games. Player b got placed platin 1 and stuck there for another 100 games with a 50% winrate. That means player a won 150 out of 200 games putting him at a 75% winrate. player b won 100 out of 200 games putting him at a 50% winrate. Both won 50% of their last 100 games while being platin 1. Who is better? The obvious answer is none of them as they both perform equally well on the same level. Player a, however, has a much better winrate as he stomped his way through bronze. The current matchmaking knows that they are equally strong as it looks at the outcome of their games and realizes that they perform equally well against the same people. A system that would take the winrate into account would think that player a is much better because he has a higher winrate while being at the same elo.
What part of the current system only takes in win rate vs average MMRs beaten to calculate MMR of a player do you not understand? I LITERALLY posted an article FROM RIOT GAMES confirming that matchmaking is based on game outcomes. THAT MEANS THE CURRENT SYSTEM BEING USED RIGHT NOW USES WINRATE TO DETERMINE MMR. Do you get it? Not my suggestion, the CURRENT SYSTEM. If you can't understand that, then there is nothing more to discuss here. Clearly you need to pick up a book instead of trying to argue about a system that's already being used....
: No, most of our differences are you getting the facts wrong. Winrate does not influence your MMR or matchmaking, period. You made some claims and posted them on the internet. I am free to point the flaws in your argument out. I don't need to deliver "arguments" that go beyond just adressing yours, this is your thread after all and we discuss what your OP gave us. But if you insist: IMO the MMR should be visible and divisions/promotions should get removed. They are only a fancy overlay that obscures your actual rating. It works for chess, why shouldn't it work for us? Riot could add some titles for holding a certain MMR over xx games/period of time similiar to chess if there really is a need for more than just a number.
For the love of God, https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752954-Matchmaking-Guide >Each player is assigned a number that represents his skill level (MMR) which is determined by the **outcomes** of his previous games. With this matchmaking rating, the system will attempt to assemble two teams as fairly as possible to create a game wherein both teams have an equal chance of winning. Please dude, do your research before you blindly keep posting.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lavaniel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=An1JMn4d,comment-id=000c00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-20T17:51:58.810+0000) > > It's very obvious KDA does not matter....I understand that. That is why the system is bad. Winrate is extremely linear. There is nothing to indicate a person's ability to play the game. Winrates can be inflated or deflated. Plenty of people get extremely unlucky and some are bathed in luck and they easily get carried. What we need is to modify the grading system to utilize all these characteristics it already does to simply determine who deserves a role more. You can't tell me you enjoy watching your main be given to a complete buffoon who only knows how to play AP Urgot who thinks Ninja Tabi are the secret to his damage? > > From the last few days I'd swear Riot patched the matchmaking system and made it tremendously worse. I've never, EVER, seen such poor gameplay in all the time I've played League. I mean just game after game of people in lobby who say they are going to int, or can't communicate at all due to lack of a Broca's area. First, I applaud you for making suggestions on how you would improve the matchmaking. It shows that you put a lot of thought into this topic. I disagree with you on some points because Gregor Gysi is correct in that win rate cannot be the variable that you use to match people together. For example, if I have a 60% win rate then does that mean the system is going to match me with someone with a 40% win rate to even us out? I cannot agree with Gysi's inflammatory and argumentative language in attempting to get that point across, but he does have a point. If you did use win rate as the main variable in determining matchmaking then the system would even more blatantly group you with worse players to drag YOUR win rate back to 50%. Another variable you mentioned is KDA. I don't think that should be used because as a support main I am expected to die for my team. Does that make me a bad player when I die often? This is especially true when a support plays engage champions like leona where you are expected to throw yourself into the frey. One huge problem with matchmaking that seems to be a big focus for many players is the human element (tiliting and toxicity). When a player is an emotional wreck and ready to feed the entire game there is no data that Riot can gather to determine that they are going to be toxic. One player may tilt after one loss, while another may only tilt after 3-4 losses. Even if Riot was able to measure "tilt" and factor that into their matchmaking system then who do you match those players with? If you match them with other tilted players then it's going to be a prisoner's island scenario that Riot has expressly denied consideration. If you match them with non-tilted players then the system would again be blatantly dragging down win rates.
To be honest, if we reverted back to the elo system and just matched similar players together then everything would be fine and dandy. I don't even have a clue as to why Riot won't combine the two. Keep the "named leagues" but use the system of you win, you go up, you lose, you go down. No promotions, super easy demotions to keep ladders from being bottom-heavy. But with the current system, I'm getting to the point to where I have no idea how on earth you would keep MMR and make fair and balanced teams. They for sure use win rates. You win, MMR goes up, you lose, it goes down. We desperately need to come up with a better system. Hell, if we just used people only in the same tiers (Silver IIIs and Silver IIIs only in a game) and tried to fill primary roles first, then after a certain point deliver the unlucky fellow into his secondary or filled, then we would have a lot of fixes. I'm not sure what you could do for the mega tilters and the people who just enjoy the occasional troll. One bad experience makes you feel like it happens all the time, and for me lately I have never had such a string of bad luck. Without having some fat guy manually demoting people (which would be prisoner island, after all) or just barring them from ranked, I'm out of ideas. Barring them from ranked, where the game's most competitive players want to continually improve, would be the most logical, but bad for business and would not help them improve. It also brings up the issue of what's acceptable behavior in League, and without a respectable non-automated system to judge that, it would never be properly implemented. To add to the KDA idea, the grading system already utilizes data from averages from across the playerbase I guess in your rank area? Not sure if it's whole server or not. But if Janna's typically don't die a lot, but they don't get a lot of kills, then you could say that a 0/3 Janna is better than the 0/6 Janna on average. But the problem with using the deserve system is not all roles play the same type. Braum mains for example would probably be more consistent with 0/6 to 0/9. Honestly this system would help pull out the 0/12 barely-plays-mid-but-hey-maybe-its-different-this-game guys people who aren't comfortable playing a role but are trying something different. I don't care what the other non-contributing dude is saying, if you are better at a role than another dude I want you playing it, not some random RNG system deciding that the first-time mid guy is supposed to carry me.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lavaniel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=An1JMn4d,comment-id=000c00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-20T17:51:58.810+0000) > > It's very obvious KDA does not matter....I understand that. That is why the system is bad. Winrate is extremely linear. There is nothing to indicate a person's ability to play the game. Winrates can be inflated or deflated. Plenty of people get extremely unlucky and some are bathed in luck and they easily get carried. Please stop it with the winrate. I literally wrote "winrate/KDA do not influence it [the MMR] If someone gets a lucky winning streak then that's nice for them but it means that their MMR went up so that they get matched with better players who will put them back in their place. > What we need is to modify the grading system to utilize all these characteristics it already does to simply determine who deserves a role more. You can't tell me you enjoy watching your main be given to a complete buffoon who only knows how to play AP Urgot who thinks Ninja Tabi are the secret to his damage? No there is no such thing as "deserve", everyone should have the same chances. > From the last few days I'd swear Riot patched the matchmaking system and made it tremendously worse. I've never, EVER, seen such poor gameplay in all the time I've played League. I mean just game after game of people in lobby who say they are going to int, or can't communicate at all due to lack of a Broca's area. And how would Riot increase the amount of people who say that they are going to int so quickly? By unbanning them? You either have bad luck or just feel that it has gone up.
Please stop picking apart my argument and deliver one of your own. Most of your counterpoints are just differences in opinions, after all.
: My suggestion for ranked is one like in challenger
: Matchmaking depends entirely on the MMR which is a number completely seperate from the division/promotion system. The matchmaking tries to get get people with similiar MMR into a game while also taking the position into account (so that every position is filled). It changes only by winning or losing, KDA etc. does not matter. The amount of the change may vary, the exact formula is not public. Winrate/KDA do not influence it with good reason.
It's very obvious KDA does not matter....I understand that. That is why the system is bad. Winrate is extremely linear. There is nothing to indicate a person's ability to play the game. Winrates can be inflated or deflated. Plenty of people get extremely unlucky and some are bathed in luck and they easily get carried. What we need is to modify the grading system to utilize all these characteristics it already does to simply determine who deserves a role more. You can't tell me you enjoy watching your main be given to a complete buffoon who only knows how to play AP Urgot who thinks Ninja Tabi are the secret to his damage? From the last few days I'd swear Riot patched the matchmaking system and made it tremendously worse. I've never, EVER, seen such poor gameplay in all the time I've played League. I mean just game after game of people in lobby who say they are going to int, or can't communicate at all due to lack of a Broca's area.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lavaniel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=An1JMn4d,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2017-03-20T07:40:40.159+0000) > > 1. First off, either decide if the system is going to purely SoloQ or not. I like to duo with my partner, but if that system wants to be truly fair, then there needs to be some restrictions. Agreed. > 2. Teams would be need to be within 1 tier of each other. If you are Silver IV, you get matched with Silver III or Silver V. No more, no less. Even if you are struggling for a few games. Doesn't make sense for two reasons: 1: tier =/= mmr and Riot can't change that unless they revert the whole tier system back into the elo system. Which I'd love, but eh. 2: Matchmaking would take way too long or people would get autofilled all the time. In high elo both. > 3. The system has pooled 10 players, now what? Use win rate + KDA (and a few other parameters to check to see player quality) and convert to numerical value and attempt to balance two teams into a 50-50 ratio. Check value by determining the number of players vying for each role. If one team has 3 or more people looking for one role, than re-scramble. Winrate doesn't make sense, if you just stomped your way from bronze to platin you aren't necessarily better than those who are stuck in p3 for a year with a 50% winrate. KDA just doesn't make sense, Bronze Janna's would get matched with Challenger Yasuo's (mild exaggeration but you get the point). Other parameters? Name them and I'll tell you why it doesn't make sense. "Convert it to numerical value" yeah good luck with that formula, I suggest you also try to take into account the sleeping habits of the players by using data you buy from Google about their surfing habits and try to determine how fit they are. Also check their FB for whether they recently had a breakup. /s tl;dr: too complicated, jesus > 4. Look into preferred roles. Decide if there is competition for one role. Analyse who has the highest win rate + CS average + KDA and least amount of toxic behavior from MANY champs in that role. Convert that into a numerical value by creating a rating system out of 1000 so that it is damn near hard to get a double match. Highest number gets the more sought after role. No more giving the less competent guy his newly-found main. So you picked the 10 players without looking at the preferred role? Good luck with autofilling all those midlaners into SUP, ADC and TOP. > Despite what people believe, stats and numbers matter. Though Riot is very linear in using pure win rate, which is the fallacy in the system. No they don't, they use a MMR that is probably similiar to elo and the other matchmaking systems by other companies. You don't understand basic matchmaking. > Also, for provisions, the current system I listed or even the one they've always used would be fine. Start at Silver IV, move up and down based on wins/losses. However, we don't need the mega drop from resets we've always had. If you win 6-4 provisionals, then you should be placed at your old rank. Any more, go higher. Any less, drop. The system already calculates to place you with people of your supposed rank in provisionals. The resets exist to get those league5 guys into their actual rank again. > For promos, bump the matchmaking scale up to one tier. So if you followed my system, a Gold III player in his promos to Gold II could be potentially matched with Gold III to Gold I players. But honestly, promos are not needed in tiers but should be for leagues. Well it becomes more and more apparent how little you understand about matchmaking. > LP gains would need to be based on win rates entirely. At a 49 - 51% overall rank (after 30 or even WAY more games minimum), then LP gains should be 25, while lost should be 20. That would allow for a slow climb only if a player deserves it, but wouldn't cause a ridiculous amount. At 46-49% win rate, wins are worth 20 LP and losses are 25 LP. This should flunk out baddies. Below that, 15 per win, 25 per loss. If you can't win that much, then you may have a serious problem and need to be adjusted according. On the other hand, 52-54% should gain 28 LP per win, and lose 15 per loss. Obviously past a certain amount of games it is obvious this player deserves to climb. Win rates past that should gain up to 35 LP for serious wins, because a 20 game win streak on a matchmaking system that wants to balance teams 50-50 not balance win rates on each player to 50-50 or try to demote some would indicate that the player being matched is obviously higher quality than his rank would indicate. This would result in a much slower climb than the current system. > Now for high elo, this system would need to be stretched to reduce 40 minute lobby times.We wouldn't want to forcibly restrict diamonds to only play with the like 8 diamond IIs on right now. Low/mid elo would still have horribly long game times, way worse than when dynQ came initially.
No, I don't know much about matchmaking. However, what is your background knowledge on Riot's matchmaking? I would assume it to be very numerical, considering MMR, which is a formula. Using formulations to rank people is not new, in fact, the same system that takes subjective values and converts them into one number using a forumla is the system they use to rank candidates for medical and veterinary school. In fact MMR is a formula. It's all about numbers, and the grading system uses averages of players playing a champion.
: What is your proposed solution for riot's matchmaking? If you were designing the system how would you create it?
1. First off, either decide if the system is going to purely SoloQ or not. I like to duo with my partner, but if that system wants to be truly fair, then there needs to be some restrictions. 2. Teams would be need to be within 1 tier of each other. If you are Silver IV, you get matched with Silver III or Silver V. No more, no less. Even if you are struggling for a few games. 3. The system has pooled 10 players, now what? Use win rate + KDA (and a few other parameters to check to see player quality) and convert to numerical value and attempt to balance two teams into a 50-50 ratio. Check value by determining the number of players vying for each role. If one team has 3 or more people looking for one role, than re-scramble. 4. Look into preferred roles. Decide if there is competition for one role. Analyse who has the highest win rate + CS average + KDA and least amount of toxic behavior from MANY champs in that role. Convert that into a numerical value by creating a rating system out of 1000 so that it is damn near hard to get a double match. Highest number gets the more sought after role. No more giving the less competent guy his newly-found main. 4. Attempt to randomly scramble pick order...with more emphasis on jungle/support as on top. <<maybe just all random, both are fine Despite what people believe, stats and numbers matter. Though Riot is very linear in using pure win rate, which is the fallacy in the system. Also, for provisions, the current system I listed or even the one they've always used would be fine. Start at Silver IV, move up and down based on wins/losses. However, we don't need the mega drop from resets we've always had. If you win 6-4 provisionals, then you should be placed at your old rank. Any more, go higher. Any less, drop. The system already calculates to place you with people of your supposed rank in provisionals. For promos, bump the matchmaking scale up to one tier. So if you followed my system, a Gold III player in his promos to Gold II could be potentially matched with Gold III to Gold I players. But honestly, promos are not needed in tiers but should be for leagues. If duo queue were to be implemented, then players would need to fall within the same category as the matchmaking scale. That way we don't have boosting as bad, it would pure playing together and teamwork. And no, the MMR should not fall for duo's. It would function as normal, except try to function to put duo's on both teams, or just decrease LP gains slightly. LP gains would need to be based on win rates entirely. At a 49 - 51% overall rank (after 30 or even WAY more games minimum), then LP gains should be 25, while lost should be 20. That would allow for a slow climb only if a player deserves it, but wouldn't cause a ridiculous amount. At 46-49% win rate, wins are worth 20 LP and losses are 25 LP. This should flunk out baddies. Below that, 15 per win, 25 per loss. If you can't win that much, then you may have a serious problem and need to be adjusted according. On the other hand, 52-54% should gain 28 LP per win, and lose 15 per loss. Obviously past a certain amount of games it is obvious this player deserves to climb. Win rates past that should gain up to 35 LP for serious wins, because a 20 game win streak on a matchmaking system that wants to balance teams 50-50 not balance win rates on each player to 50-50 or try to demote some would indicate that the player being matched is obviously higher quality than his rank would indicate. Now for high elo, this system would need to be stretched to reduce 40 minute lobby times.We wouldn't want to forcibly restrict diamonds to only play with the like 8 diamond IIs on right now. Anyways, I think this system would incorporate the whole player. The current system also likes to randomly make you get demoted. Once you get demoted, I always stop losing streaks immediately after. To me, that's what is broken. You fix matchmaking, and you fix a lot of other problems, including balance. Because nothing sucks more than watching a previously plat Yasuo dick stroke your bronze-4-life mid who just plays casually
: Most of the stuff you are whining about has nothing to do with matchmaking though. Matchmaking is purely based on MMR; which you fuck up by "duoing". If you are going to bitch about matchmaking: try remove as many exceptions as you can by queueing solo.
Okay then, so if matchmaking has nothing to do with game after game of brainless teammates, then what system places those people in the same game with me? I am queuing solo now, and I now have another screenshot of a guy banning out the champ I was going to pick, laughing at it, and then locking in Nunu mid.
Rioter Comments
: Fix the ranking system Rito.
To add to your argument, I'm gold 5. It took me 200 games to get out of Silver III. Now it is threatening to demote me (no joke I have screenshots at 1 LP being told I need to win more games to stay in Gold 5, despite not being on like 15 game loss streak). I play with my Silver III duo who we have been playing together since I started League. We got put on a team earlier with an Ahri who could not speak comprehensible English, and kept referring to my duo who was playing Lunar Kog as the "red god". Next lobby, some guy said that he was going top Nunu and planned on feeding to "punish Riot for putting him in low-priority queue". and we left. No joke, when Riot wants you demoted, there is nothing you can do. Want proof? I took screenshots because I have never seen a guy call my duo a red god or get mid and bot mixed up.
: Man this awesome. I wish I had skills like this. lol
Thank you! There are so many skills I learned throughout this whole process. I would love to share what I've learned!
: I am showing this to a friend. Incredible work :O why can't I do that ~~cuz im fat~~
Thank you! And don't be ashamed of yourself! If you have the will and the way you can do anything :) Cosplay has always been about being who YOU want to be, not what others think you should be! I say GO FOR IT!
: Great cosplay also proud owner of this skin and fiora's to.
Thank you! PROJECT: Fiora is my second favorite of the line, but I don't own it. It is just a phenomenal skin line all around.
: I didn't know Ashe is an unicorn.
Yeah...you don't notice these things until you build a costume from the ground up!
: Keep up with the good work! Awesome cosplay
Thank you ! I loved how well this turned out!
: I'll have to remember that. I want to work on a Shen cosplay so asking always helps :)
I will probably do a full photo shoot on spring break (next week for me), and I will do a full write-up, especially on ripping League of Legends models and turning them into pepakuras, which is useful for foam armor because paper and foam are highly similar, which is super useful for these super complicated armor pieces!
: Ashe is my favorite ADC and this is my favorite skin. WOW! Great job.
Thank you! I love Ashe so much, and this skin was so well executed by Riot!
: That's pretty cool, did you buy plastic sheets for the bow or did you do the moulding yourself? :o (Assuming parts of it is plastic and not foam)
Do you mean the blue pieces? Those are actually plexiglass acrylic! I used a jig saw with the help of pepakura designer and Maya to rip out the model and I had to excise the pieces I needed. To make the mask, I had to build an EVA foam base that was heated to fit my face, then I literally baked the acrylic after it was cut out and engraved (the lines of the mask are visible in more direct light!) and so the mask fits snuggly around my face, with the help of elastic and some bracelet snaps attached to my wig to hold it on.
: Wow! This is one of the best cosplays I've seen!
: Very nice work! Looks like you put a lot of time and effort into this!
Yeah I spent months on it...but I love League so much that it was totally worth it! Thank you!
: Nice cosplay. It is very well put together.
Thank you I appreciate it!
Rioter Comments
: I miss botlane ADC/Support :c
Pretty much bot lane summed in one post. I'm glad there are people out there who actually feel like Jhin is getting the Lucian treatment, just like Jinx when she cam out. They want their new ADC to be nice and flashy. I'm an Ashe main, and for the last few patches I have felt that I have no real impact besides my ult. It doesn't make sense where they want Ashe tbh. When she could stack with her W and R, it was obvious her new identity was a more focused DPS slow ADC, just like she was pre-rework. Now I can't decide if I am suppose to poke to death with the mediocre-damage W, try to stack some Qs (and die, of course) or ult and pretty much not participate in a fight beyond that. We need to decide if we want games to be back to longer amounts of time, or if we want adcs to be more relevant earlier. And to be honest, relevant for what? I think we should have them be more relevant for tank killing and tower pushing, so that adc isn't the oppressive role. I feel like lethality is honestly the intermediary for what would be a game without crit. You have to have some way of dealing enough damage, and lethality would possibly give poke adcs and the dps adcs relevancy in most metas. But of course, Riot likes to sit in a retirement home all day instead of actually trying to make this game pleasurable to play. Expect about two months from now until the meta possibly shifts, though with all the damage creep its probably a mute point.
: Riot at this point you're honestly asking to be hated
Ashe is a subpar to balanced character but is seeing play in the LCS because her ult lets other people get kills? Yeah, that's right Meddler, she better be getting some fucking nerfs. That e man. That broken hawkshot. (saw that they were thinking about nerfing Ashe, of all champs, on the boards the other day)
: Black screen
Would like to confirm I am experiencing this same [bug](http://imgur.com/a/wjMGG).
: Would you prefer new maps over new champions?
I just got back into Twisted Treeline last week, after playing it like two seasons ago, when it was teams only. While flex queue really helps bring players into the gamemode, I'll give TT this: You never know what champions are super good in TT. I'm constantly being surprised. Gragas, in the right hands, will one-shot any squishy you got. Teemo is super good as long as they don't have an APC. Darius is meh. Taric is mega OP. Illaoi is a free win. BAN POPPY. You are pinned at every wall. I love how just some old characters who are crap on the Rift are awesome in TT. It's like HoTS and League had a child and yet I never actually looked at it. Seriously, you want some good fun, play that map.
: This meta blows
But...but... all ADCs are super strong according to most top lane mains and are busted right now...which is why they are obviously picking the most busted two {{champion:110}} {{champion:22}} We for sure need assistance in making the ADC class more viable, it would help not having just two ADCs in every LCS match. I think we should make them super good at objective control and less on team fight potential since keystones are sticking around pretty strongly.
dominusx (EUNE)
: All i see is people crying adc's are weak adc's are unplayable.
Idk what patch you're playing on, but doesn't matter if I'm support, jungle, top, mid, or adc, every game ADCs are like basically meaty sacks of gold for which the other roles feast fervantly on to help fund their hungering desire for magical items.
: League of Legends, then vs now
This is what Riot needs to be reading. I really like how you mention Darius vs Ashe in terms of base stats, which I think are important to note. You should check out some of the newer ADCs base stats and compare them with the older ones. It is kind of astonishing. Good post. The boards needs more people trying their best to make this game a great place to have fun and compete.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lavaniel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E5EbclEr,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-27T19:04:58.486+0000) > > What is your problem with my post? What do you want to do to help ADCs? > > (for the fourth time of asking) You want to buff ADCs. They don't need buffs. Only thing i would ever give them is a power shift. They have too much power late game to the point where it is absurd. Regardless of games on average making it to late, it doesn't justify just buffing Adcs across the board. Lane Bully ADC's never really fall off. Late game ADC's are utterly broken to compensate for their power relative to lane bully ADCs. Take away some of their late game power and shift it to mid game via their itemization. That is all that need be done.
Now see? We have gotten somewhere. Because I main bot lane, I don't see the strengths of ADCs versus other roles. However, Lolking, Doublelift, even Riot, have stated that ADCs are currently underperforming, which is why I suggested buffs. A power shift would def be a fix, it is basically the same thing I was suggesting, but I didn't account for the mega power ADCs get late game because lately, they don't get there. So we need to shift their late game potential to earlier in the game in terms of stages not minutes. But we don't need mega hyper adcs. I think crit should be removed so we can give them good late game for objective control, not mega bursting every other role.
: What? Did you not have an adequate response or something so you resorted to this?
What is your problem with my post? What do you want to do to help ADCs? (for the fourth time of asking)
Sciela (NA)
: Ziggs makes **everyone** look like shit; he's beyond broken, and has been since the MYMU last year. Surprised people are just now picking him up. And uh, Ashe is one of the easiest ADCs in the game, yet has a free Frozen Mallet built in, and can push Q and instagib even tanks. She's too strong, but at least has to build up to that damage instead of just one shotting you with crits.
Where do you find Ashe "strong"? Is that like equating Vayne in 6.23 as Ashe-level strong? Or Vayne in 5.22? Or 4.22? Vayne actually just fell out of favor, and the only utility ADC that exists is filling a gap that raw damage has left after every other lane now has more raw damage to completely burst any ADC trying to, well, ADC. Ashe has an ult. But without extensive peel, her autoattack damage is just about useless when it takes sooooo long to get to that steroid. Like I said in my post, ADCs are the smallest pool of champs. We need every one of them to be viable. But when something changes, guess what, it's gonna be Vayne and Caitlyn again. I'm so sick of seeing that. Ashe got her spotlight about 3 weeks after her rework and she is typically never allowed to be a good DPS adc since season 1. But if the rest of the ADCs I haven't seen in 200 games are made playable again, I'd be happy without an Ashe buff. Either way, you can't argue that ADCs aren't shit right now. We need to do to _something._
: >Do you often read scholarly articles? Okay i can't believe I actually have to do this but lemme break ti down for you. Yes, I have and yes i know how they work. My question for you is why the hell are you trying to explain this to me and MOST important of all, why you are trying to excuse your poor conveyance of your point via the guise of it being a "scholarly article"..that you are posting on a _message board?_ Did you stop and think that through at all? >Obviously you either didn't read or didn't understand. I clearly read, so obviously the case must be that i didn't understand, which i can only again attribute to you poorly conveying what it is you are trying to convey, as stated earlier. I doubt it, but Im humoring you here.
This is probably one of the shittiest replies in terms of formatting. > Creates a quote With another space in between to end the > creating an extended quote. >like this hi im paul i do not know basic computer functions Once again, your reading comprehension is lacking. In a discussion, you are supposed to outline what you find wrong, i.e. what I said in the actual post. I have posted this education video here for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70hoV-YYRkE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UGOr4GAlvQ This should help. Education is so important for our youth. Please don't skip it. Please continue on with your education. It really makes a difference in the world. You have a problem with my suggestions to fix a game, reply with some actual issues with the post, not with someone playing you like a toy because you got mad and retaliated at someone insulted your precious top lane.
Sciela (NA)
: Ashe, Tristana and Sivir are perhaps the only balanced ADCs in the game (and I'd say Ashe is too strong at that). The rest need tweaks or nerfs.
I guess Ashe is op with that 50% winrate, meanwhile Ziggs is making ADCs look like shit.
: Trist is the only one with buffs because she is the only one that obviously needs it. Not counting Kalista, though her buffs sound like they gave her a little help. ADCs themselves are not weak, divers and big fat tanks / bruisers are popular and they snowball the game earlier. Buffing the class would be a huge mistake and just result in nerfs later. ADCs do not need "tankiness". We have 550+ range for the most part. Learn to position and kite well, that's why you play the class. Making them tanky at all completely defeats the purpose of having range, it's why Graves can so easily become a problem.
Would 20 health and 10 armor cause ADCs to be tanks? Or would it allow us to survive ganks a bit easier so we don't have snowballing? Riot doesn't seem to have a clue to nerf junglers without breaking bruisers, or tanks, or any other class. That's why I suggested some fixes as ideas. I obviously explained why Ashe has issues with kiting post-rework, but other ADCs do okay at it but not with every new champion getting a new dash or flashy CC.
: the problem is getting more early-mid game power where the game is decided but the only way to do that is to make items cheaper and weaker. Doing this kills the end game power, so you will end up selling those items for better items as the game goes on. Its almost like going {{item:3036}} over {{item:3031}} as the first damage item so you have armor pen but I haven't been able to get consistent results with it. A general overhaul of all ADC need to be done at this point again because I cant see a damage champ being better than a utility non hard carry champ. The hard carry champs just take too long to get going, since few games last till 35 min. That is why I feel Ashe is so strong right now because she can just rack up the assists and slow/stun them on the other team while you let everyone else do the main dmg.
Yeah I see that point. Ashe right now is considered the best ADC for teams, while in her class she may just be the medium ground. I think my argument above could use revision - we don't need the same damage for less of a price I see that now. I'm just a bit butt hurt because if your team is subpar, then Ashe just falls over, as most ADCs do, but at least Ashe is a secondary support.
: because none of us scale as hard as ADCs or have a support to babysit us through our lane are you telling me that Ashe should have an early game comparable to Darius?
Darius is in a whole other league. He is actually being more scaled to the late game as we speak. No, Ashe should not be hefty as Darius. But is it fair that an ult from Ziggs can one shot her? Or that Vi can single-handedly kill both ADC and support? I think we need to redefine ADCs. ADCs shouldn't be monsters in the early, but I want a chance to counterplay a fed Vi at 20 minutes, and I never get that. If a champ is fed in another lane, I don't get to deal with it because I am one-shotted. It is very unfun to wait 40 minutes to have some damage only to be buttfucked by the top laner, who has had relevancy since 3 minutes. Which is the reason ADCs are very very shitty right now. Don't believe me? Watch Doublelift on Twitch. He is constantly complaining about ADCs and their shit tiers right now.
Sciela (NA)
: ADCs, if anything, need nerfs. When assassins can't assassinate ADCs (their job, you know), there's something wrong. Lifesteal needs some hard limiters put on it, and crit needs to be toned down (or at least crit damage).
I agree. I think crit is very easily the one stat that makes it super super difficult to balance. Lifesteal too. I don't play Draven, nor do I play assassins by any means, but I really hate when a Draven can tank through all damage with bloodthirster shields and warlord's. Keystones are a major asshole in terms of balancing. But I don't think Sivir needs a nerf. Or Ashe. Or Tristana. That doesn't apply to them at all.
: does that justify you getting to take over the game sooner? ADC should not be mandatory to have a good comp.
Then why are all other roles allowed to dominate early and middle? The least we should be able to do is take towers easier and big objectives like dragon or baron. Crit is obviously the stat that is preventing us from this, because any buff to item price makes that stat allow ADCs to spiral out of control before other roles have a chance.
: you want to be tankier and not lose damage. you want cheaper items but you don't want to lose your broken late game power. are you high?
Do we reach late game, i.e. 45 minutes, as often as we used to in Season 3?
: > [{quoted}](name=Lavaniel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E5EbclEr,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-01-27T17:05:24.409+0000) > > Please read. Read it all. > > Read the whole thing. > > It is addressed. I did read it all. I don't see where. please enlighten me. You aren't being clear. >I'm really trying my best here to work towards all ADC viability. Please don't down vote because of one statement you don't agree with. It just makes this game worse when ideas aren't heard. First off I did read the whole thing, i don't agree with the vast majority of it. Second, even if i hadn't, i will damn well downvote if that one statement is ludicrous enough for me to not take the entire thing seriously. Your whole post is rather all over the place as is.
Do you often read scholarly articles? They typically have an overall theme and then follow several critical points, with summary at the end and a conclusion leading back to the title. Want to know why I build Frozen Mallet on Ashe? >Ashe is popular pick in pro games right now because she has an amazing ult. However, her teamfighting is terrible because it is very difficult to get off her non-normal crit steroid because of how bursty every other role is. She has been nerfed to work towards 4 stacks, with no other way of building stacks, and is heavily punished for kiting because of how much damage you lose when you miss an AA to run backwards when you have an attack speed of 1.1 or more. Also, her slows, the thing about her that is supposed to be her signature thing, are heavily nerfed because it felt too oppressive towards bruisers. Obviously you either didn't read or didn't understand. The point of a discussion is that you describe what you don't like about it, it is reviewed, and then ideas are conglomerated into one so that a good state of the game is found. I main Ashe. It is obvious I have a bias towards her, and ADCs because I main ADC and Support. I do my best to kite to build stacks, but sometimes it is shit to kite when your Q is ready. Now please, start listing why you think this post is all over the place, when I don't see you working to fix ADCs. Why is describing in bullets, with three central ideas in paragraph forms, all over the place? I genuinely care about this game and I hate it when roles are phased out. That's where I want to fix things. It's annoying when people don't actually discuss things and just down vote and explains why Riot never takes Gameplay seriously anymore.
Lavaniel (NA)
: I'm really trying my best here to work towards all ADC viability. Please don't down vote because of one statement you don't agree with. It just makes this game worse when ideas aren't heard.
Another reason this game is so unbalanced right now, because people work to make posts for solutions and people down vote with no discussion.
Lavaniel (NA)
: Please read. Read it all. Read the whole thing. It is addressed.
I'm really trying my best here to work towards all ADC viability. Please don't down vote because of one statement you don't agree with. It just makes this game worse when ideas aren't heard.
: >{{champion:22}} let her stack Q again by hitting champions with her abilities, and please for the love of games not make me build in the mid game so I can have some slows and beefiness to survive one Darius Q. That's all I want. She is the PREMIERE SLOW ADC, make her that way. you DO know Ashe's passive makes all her auto attacks slow right? Why in [blue blazes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trAFIVEDUh0) would you ever get Frozen mallet on her? Also, why are you in melee range of Darius?
Please read. Read it all. Read the whole thing. It is addressed.
Rioter Comments
: This isn't new...but I guess this is what happens when an underused champion gets reworked. People figure out shit that isn't even new.
What champion killed dragon at three minutes in patch 7.1? Shaco has to wait until he's 6. But three minutes?
Sasogwa (EUW)
: But is it even worth? You'll be behind in EXP and gold on the enemy jungler, it's risky because if he spots it you're dead. Unless it's an infernal, you're setting yourself way behind for just a small advantage. If drake gave global gold like it used to, it'd be worth, but there it's kinda ask to get snowballed on.
Not sure how a 3 minute drag isn't a huge advantage at all. Especially when you have insane mana regen or massive move speed to get back to lane. He should NOT be able to do that without consequences, and it is insanely risky for bot lane to ward drag when they themselves are much more screwed if they lose out on those early levels.
: Really? I've had success against Infernal drake with 3 pots, machete, get red, kill dragon at level 2. Though Ocean or Wind might be a bitch at level 2 cuz of their AS.
are you serious??? only saw one ww in one game. this one was mountain and tested the same strategy in a custom and killed wind. hit the emergency button
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Lavaniel

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