: I wasn't trying to punish nasus, but at the same time theres so much cdr that where can you remove it that wont upset people?
I rather it was removed from big damage oriented items. CDR should be on items that provide utility and not just raw damage or burst. This will make Assassins, mages and ADC's have to think about their skill rotation more than just allow them to URF spells constantly.
: Sheen only received CDR in [V5.22](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-522-notes#patch-Sheen) (which was near the end of Season 5). Before that, it only provided Mana and AP.
I'd still rather not have sheen lose CDR. I'd rather big damage items lose it instead. Trinity, IBG and Lich are strong items but usually provide some form of utility and not just raw damage. I'd prefer CDR to stay on tank/bruiser items but not give easy access to mages, assassins and adc's. If they want it then they should sacrifice raw damage for the utility that CDR was supposed to provide.
: Trinity is a powerspike for most champs who heavily rely on it. I'd flat out lower it to 10% (Probably get rid of the cdr on Sheen? Its either that or we fit recurve bow in place of stinger) FH and IBG need updates, no questions asked. Both crumble in value for tanks since health scaling sucks for them atm (unless you are Cho or Sion). Needs to be more tank centered. Ohm is a pretty dead item. But yes, items in general right now grant too much cdr, especially if users who heavily rely (Jax and Riven) on it are fine with building components to get access to more uptime on their skills in a trade-off that has them losing barely any damage atm.
No. Sheen has always had CDR on it and that does not need to change especially how valuable of a rush item it is on Nasus,
: > [{quoted}](name=HateDaddy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eecK34vv,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-18T14:47:26.600+0000) > > There was once a point where CDR was largely a utility stat, where mages, tanks and supports generally wanted this. Damage oriented > champions (specifically AD) had some access to it, but never enough to acquire 40% easily. And that was intended, because many damage > oriented champions were built around the idea of being weak between existing cooldowns. except those who literally rely on their spells to deal damage. please go on and tell me how champions like {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:58}} and yes even though shes too stong right now {{champion:92}} shouldnt have access to cdr. their whole design concept is based on the idea that while they build attack damage, they dont scale with auto attack stats, but only off stats that scale up their spells. it wouldnt be quite fair for them to not have as easy access to cdr as other carries have to attack speed, on hit effects, lifesteal and critical strike chance and so on.
B/c Renekton, Garen and Riven are resource-less and are supposed to be gaited by higher CD's in their kit so they can not just spam with impunity. But now Riven can literally just dash away like fucking Santa Clause, Garen can Silence you and Kassadin'e mother better than Kassadin and Renekton can dash and kill you faster than Tom Cruise can violate a couch. Why is that ok? Nasus, Darius and Illaoi are at least gaited by a mana pool. and can not just infinately spam abilities with no repercussions. CDR saturation is a huge problem and takes out all the decision making for champions who are not restricted by some form of resource and allows them to mindlessly fight and scale with impunity.
: Why in the world would you BUFF RENEKTON??
It's because of the grievous wound buff on thornmail and bramble vest. They gave him more sustain to help off set the fact that the grievous wounds now applies for 3 seconds. If you play safe early and get some health and early bramble he's manageable.
LAFFEN (EUW)
: FARMER NASUS v2.0
I would personally pay the high price for a skin like this just for the VO. LOL!
: what if i dont want to play a champ or cant counter pick him or play a champ that cant half health him in a single trade, meaning he can just sustain up with his overbuffed lifesteal, and what if i cant get any jg pressure becuase my jgs are a different breed of r%%%%%ed
> [{quoted}](name=MeemMeister,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rtsao6F6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-10T01:41:44.749+0000) > > what if i dont want to play a champ or cant counter pick him or play a champ that cant half health him in a single trade, meaning he can just sustain up with his overbuffed lifesteal, and what if i cant get any jg pressure becuase my jgs are a different breed of r%%%%%ed Then prepare your anus to get rekt...?! If you do not want to counter pick or play against a champion's given weaknesses then you really need to find another game to play
: Sooo when is Nasus wither getting a nerf
It has already been nerfed. It used to be able to cast at 700 range, have 95% AS reduction and had an increase of 900 range when he ulted. Quit bitching about an immobile melee's only form of engage and disengage that is single target. If you are stupid enough to fight him 1v1 when he is stacked then that's your problem.
Lovelle (NA)
: I know, but it doesn't really help him out early game, which is where he's currently struggling. Most of the games I lose with him are because I got snowballed on early, and there's not much Trundle can currently do about it until he gets levels (particularly E) and some health/resistances. The problem with this is that every other champion seems to be able to cut through defensive stats like a hot knife through butter. All the grievous wounds and penetration aren't helping either.
I am a Nasus main and I feel your pain. Trundle used to be my back up pick now sadly he's so handicapped to play I do not feel comfortable picking him into almost any match up other than a tank.
: So why is the dog side getting the prestige skin but not the cat side? {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
Because cat's are nature's natural ass holes. 😋
: I've been maining Nasus for quite a while now, and there's no Champion who has a worse laningphase than Nasus. Everyone can beat him early on, freeze the lane on him and deny as many stacks as possible... If you are feeling extra insecure: take ignite, it kinda counters his whole kit. And he can't even scale in the lategame because everyone who builds items like Botrk, or rageblade outscales him super hard. But I really think he didn't need the recent nerfs, I don't even know why riot buffed him in the first place... I would take a look at his W because i think it's too strong at max rank, but besides that he is perfectly fine.
> [{quoted}](name=PÄ…arthurnax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=91singwz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-15T17:44:56.527+0000) > > I've been maining Nasus for quite a while now, and there's no Champion who has a worse laningphase than Nasus. Everyone can beat him early on, freeze the lane on him and deny as many stacks as possible... If you are feeling extra insecure: take ignite, it kinda counters his whole kit. And he can't even scale in the lategame because everyone who builds items like Botrk, or rageblade outscales him super hard. But I really think he didn't need the recent nerfs, I don't even know why riot buffed him in the first place... I would take a look at his W because i think it's too strong at max rank, but besides that he is perfectly fine. You want to nerf an immobile melee's only engage and disengage tool, that is single target?!?!?! WTF are you smoking?! {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: We need a Riven rework but honestly, it is as likely as Lee Sin rework. The mains just wouldn't allow it to ever happen or else they'd set fire to themselves in protest (just like Lee Sin did).
> [{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xILVgQRO,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-03-11T20:11:23.293+0000) > > We need a Riven rework but honestly, it is as likely as Lee Sin rework. > The mains just wouldn't allow it to ever happen or else they'd set fire to themselves in protest (just like Lee Sin did). I have far less problem with Lee Sin then I do Riven. Lee Sin does fall off hard after the early game and becomes nothing more than an ult bot by mid game. Lee's mobility is reliant on wards and allies and he is gated by energy. Riven can dash with impunity and burst you with short trades without any retaliation due to her stun. She has all the hallmark of an Assassin and Bruiser without having to sacrifice much build efficiency to accomplish both. She is tanky, deals obscene amounts of damage, mobile, strong CC, resource-less and can proc conqueror astoundingly fast even in it's nerfed state. The mains of Riven can suck an egg. She is broken as fuck and they know it.
: Aatrox isn't even doing well in pro play
While I find that Aatrox before nerfs was oppressive as hell at least he would plataue mid game and fall off during the later part of the mid game. Riven however is ok to have an oppressive early-late game play style at lvl 3 with no trade off in her build at all. She has easy access to CDR, AD (her whole kit scales from AD itemization including her shield) has near infinite mobility and no resources to manage. This is ok because "balanced"...{{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Lazarus Blade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oL73Idhf,comment-id=00020003000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-01T02:13:54.649+0000) > > No he would just Q heal at the end of ult and be fine. no it never happened to me. most of the time you use your Q at the end of the 5 sec of your ult so you will never die from the last tick of death's dance. it also give a lot of ad and lidesteal, it's a good item for trynd, if you already have 100% crit and decent AS you need to go for it
> [{quoted}](name=mOwNRachel,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oL73Idhf,comment-id=000200030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-01T14:17:33.353+0000) > > no it never happened to me. most of the time you use your Q at the end of the 5 sec of your ult so you will never die from the last tick of death's dance. it also give a lot of ad and lidesteal, it's a good item for trynd, if you already have 100% crit and decent AS you need to go for it That's what I mean. At the last tick off ult you would just q heal and be fine. DD would not kill Tryn. Sorry if I was not clear.
: Except the sustain is an issue in the early game when you don't have GW and Ignite is for all ins. You can't lane bully him because he just heals up.
> [{quoted}](name=SpecterVonBaren,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pgOEV1ct,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-03-01T04:28:57.759+0000) > > Except the sustain is an issue in the early game when you don't have GW and Ignite is for all ins. You can't lane bully him because he just heals up. Not when Nasus doesn't have the base/scaling AD nor stacks to make use of it...?! Most sustain for a good Nasus, early, will come only from last hits with Q and the rest will come from pots and biscuits just so he can survive. Those last hits until he has north of 100 stacks and a sheen will barely heal him for 20-50 HP per hit. You are over exaggerating his sustain potential a lot.
: > [{quoted}](name=Vyniadus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pgOEV1ct,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-02-28T18:02:07.228+0000) > > This change would delete Nasus from the game, or at least in higher elos. Against meta top laners and competent players, you can't expect Nasus to ever survive the early game and actually reach the late-game if you cut his early game lifesteal in half. How come? 5% Lifesteal is nothing to scoff at, it's 167% of that which is on a Doran's Blade. Especially not with his Q, where Lifesteal is applied to the total amount of damage it deals. Picking up a Doran's Shield + Second Wind in the Resolve tree is also going to be more than enough to make up for the less Lifesteal. Keep in mind the recent buff Nasus got to how quickly he builds up stacks now. Cutting down on his sustain would compensate for the increased speed in which Nasus now scales.
> [{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pgOEV1ct,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-02-28T19:00:01.073+0000) > > How come? > > 5% Lifesteal is nothing to scoff at, it's 167% of that which is on a Doran's Blade. > > Especially not with his Q, where Lifesteal is applied to the total amount of damage it deals. > > Picking up a Doran's Shield + Second Wind in the Resolve tree is also going to be more than enough to make up for the less Lifesteal. > > Keep in mind the recent buff Nasus got to how quickly he builds up stacks now. Cutting down on his sustain would compensate for the increased speed in which Nasus now scales. But Nasus does not see a return on his life steal if he is zoned off waves and can not stack. He scales poorly with AD items, has no target access via in built mobility, no longer range abilities that scale with AD. He needs better than mediocre sustain to survive his brutal early game. So 5% for starting life steal would dumpster him into trash tier. Nasus's win rate and pick rate are perfect right now. He's balanced and your anecdotal opinions do not apply in gauging if he needs a nerf. He has 50% WR and 3% pick rate.
: Wouldn't Death's dance kill him post ult?
> [{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oL73Idhf,comment-id=0002000300000000,timestamp=2019-02-28T22:36:03.290+0000) > > Wouldn't Death's dance kill him post ult? No he would just Q heal at the end of ult and be fine.
: "But he's soooo weak" Yeah, wonder why a cancerous split pusher with free crit and a ult that makes him immune to dying for 5 seconds is very weak. Wonder why. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
> [{quoted}](name=Ragnaveil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oL73Idhf,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-02-27T20:33:57.615+0000) > > "But he's soooo weak" Yeah, wonder why a cancerous split pusher with free crit and a ult that makes him immune to dying for 5 seconds is very weak. Wonder why. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} But he's a late game champion... Who doesn't have a bad early or mid game...? I have seen people plenty of Tryn main autovwin at level 3 or 4 with ignite. He didn't need a buff... {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
: Nasus wither
Yes let's lock out Nasus's only cc, that is single target and his only ability to engage or disengage. Oh and he's highly immobile as well. Great! Yeah that makes so much sense... {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
godyoonmin (EUNE)
: nerf nasus
Here is a down vote for your ignorant post and whining.
Moody P (NA)
: Nasus has a bit too much sustain now
Nasus is 50% WR and 3% pick rate. I think he's fine where he is. They just gave him the buffs he needed to be relevant and his numbers are certainly not showing him as oppressive or broken. Besides grevious wounds and ignite still shut down healing pretty hard and are more than effective against any sustain champ Nasus included. If anything Riot could revert his passive scaling up as quickly and go back to the, iirc, 10%, 16%, 20% at levels 9, 12, 16.
: please remove the latest nasus buff on Q
Hate to break it to you but a champ with a 50% win rate and a 3% pick rate is not a problem. This means pretty much only his mains are doing well on him and nothing you mentioned is a problem other than you have poor lane management skills and map awareness.
Antenora (EUW)
: {{item:3025}} cannot be buffed. This little shit is the reason why -> {{champion:81}} Only way IBG can be buffed is if it's made melee only.
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OdYEBsPP,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-02-26T16:06:12.455+0000) > > {{item:3025}} cannot be buffed. > > This little shit is the reason why -> {{champion:81}} > > Only way IBG can be buffed is if it's made melee only. Please do! I have been saying for years now that IBG should be melee only. It sorely needs the 125% back on sheen proc.
: Nerf nasus
To the OP; neither Shen or Teemo are counters to Nasus unless you have a jungle who will camp you and forfeit dragons and bot lane so you can put the Nasus behind. Both of those champions are going to lose to Nasus eventually as he is A tier duelist who excels at 1v1. Illaoi, Darius and Fiora are much stronger counters and scale as well as Nasus. Gnar is also decent as well but takes much more experience to be decent with to shut Nasus down.
: play jax or jayce against nasus. they fuck him up hard
> [{quoted}](name=ThisGamelsTrash,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=B4gsiXJL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-23T19:22:40.171+0000) > > play jax or jayce against nasus. they fuck him up hard Jayce goes lethality and if he gets a lead vs Nasus then he has to transition that lead to his team before Nasus outscales him. Jax with old conqueror was more difficult but not impossible if you played safe. Nasus outscales Jax especially now. All you have to do is play safe and farm under tower. The only champions Nasus has real trouble with are You and Vayne.
: hey nasus mains please explain something to me
Nasus is probably the only late game champ, besides Vayne, that has a bad early game. He's super weak before six and if he's denied farm and camped it's almost impossible for him to scale back to relevance before the enemy team wins vs his team. Even if he does well in lane it doesn't necessarily mean it will translate well to the later stages of the game. He is stupid easy to kite, has a single target CC ability and has no mobility to get to priority targets. He's a very strong 1v1 duelist and objective taker but that's about it. Nasus has received two buffs in the last year. Lowered Q CD in ult and the +12 for large minions, monsters and champ kills. Neither of these things solve his weaknesses. The armor and MR in ult was QoL change and he lost the scaling damage for that but it was worthless b/c shortly after that Conqueror came out making that change worthless. Plus the full amount stacks about a second before his ult ends and really doesn't make him that tanky. The biggest buff to Nasus really was the conqueror change which was always stupidly abusive.
: Read what I wrote again, please. 10 Armor and MR after 10 min is not overpowered - strong, sure, but not OP. What would be OP was getting 10 Armor and MR **at level 1**.
Regardless it would still be worthless vs conqueror users which make up the majority of top Lane. We used to be able to get 10 armor and MR with the old rune system. Runes reforged screwed the pooch in to terms of getting tank stats and made tanks feel really bad to play as. I understand that conqueror just got changed today, but we have been living with this nightmare for about a year now, and I remain dubious about how much of a nerf this new conqueror is or if it's simply a new abuse rune. Point of fact, 10 armor and MR is not OP but having enough damage/damage multipliers, in runes, that at lvl 3 a Riven, Tryn, Jax, Fiora, Darius ext can 100 -0 you is pretty obnoxious and, dare I say, OP.
: 10 MR and Armor at level 1 is hilariously overpowered.
How in the hell is 10 armor and mr "hilarious overpowered" when conqueror basically invalidates this rune up to the 10 min mark, before the rune even becomes relevant, and afterwards?!
PavLoo (NA)
: Nasus.
What are you smoking that it looks like Nasus's gets 200 HP per q stack before having TF with SV?! Early game his passive barely gives 20-70 HP and that depends on amount of stacks. Most meta top laners can do so much damage to Nasus early that every stack he goes for he risks an all in and losing 50% if not all his health. This is especially true against conqueror abusers with ignite. His slow is a single target ability that is his only means of engagement or disengagement... 1v1 he is strong if allowed to get ahead but the second he is focused and CC'd he dies extremely fast. This is a QQ post that just tells everyone you don't know how to play against Nasus and that nothing is wrong with the championship but your own play style.
Lovelle (NA)
: I agree about that. I disagree that bruisers should have to rely on an adc in order to bring down a tank. That's the sole reason I even bothered replying to this thread. I wished keystones were removed entirely in all honesty.
Sorry I wasn't trying to say that only ADC should be able to kill tanks. I just don't think it should be so free and simple for bruisers by taking a single key stone. I agree about runes reforged. They are garbage and I would prefer the old system of runes and masteries.
Lovelle (NA)
: Bruisers are supposed to be able to kill tanks. If they can't kill tanks then why pick them at all?
ADC's are supposed to kill tanks easily. Bruisers it should be more a war of attrition where the bruiser has a slight advantage. Conqueror is too much free power as true damage is good against everything not just tanks.
Gramps69 (NA)
: Jax is probably the hardest out of those three since he does have decent burst if he does a Q-W-third auto on you, but if he tries to all-in you just e, q, walk away. Same with Trynd. Riven will naturally push if she harasses you, so all you need to do is use your W to farm under tower, throw a Q her way after she uses her shield.
I still think that fact that she and Tryn are resource less makes it difficult as Malph has high mana cost and will eventually go oom to the point they can probably just dive you under tower and walk away. Maybe I am just not that good with Malph but these champions have strong if not borderline OP synergy with Conqueror and invalidate Malphs passive pretty hard.
Seen (NA)
: This "I give up" 5 minutes into game meta needs to stop.
The heavy amount of damage, CDR saturation and Gold Snowball are the problems. Largely, if a game goes with one teams dominating 2/4 different positions and the objectives, the game is all but decided in the first 5 minutes. Yes you can come back, there is that chance, but the chances of your team not int'ing or afk'ing are low, sadly.
Gramps69 (NA)
: Malphite just has to ban Darius, start corrupting pot and max Q, then build about 2-3 AP items before switching to full tank and selling off the AP for health and resists
I don't know about just Darius. I mean Riven, Tryn, and Jax can crap on him pretty hard as well. Problem is that Malphite has pretty high mana cost without anyways to wave clear which makes him an easy target to punish. But building AP on him is pretty strong hence why most are doing it.
: You're once again ignoring my comment. Bruisers who used Black Clever got it in laning phase which was at like 10 minutes or so right? So you're telling me that armor outscales that early? And you believe armor should outscale damage? I think you want a tank meta or something because I honestly don't even get what you're talking about anymore I've given you a bases BASED on historical evidence that building % pen/flat pen won't counter tanks for shit and you still deny it saying you're "countering" my points which you aren't I'm done responding to you because this is getting annoying and it seems like you're cherry picking my words. I'll leave you with this. Watch toplane season 7 and early season 8 where a tank fights a bruiser. Other than that good day.
I am just as happy you aren't commenting any more because I am super tired of trying to explain myself to you. And cherry picking words is your forte. Bye.
: > [{quoted}](name=emarythomp2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ef1NJRJg,comment-id=0006000200010000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-14T03:22:30.345+0000) > > Well apparently the OP Owner, Lazarus Blade, keeps telling me that they should build either % pen or flat pen. I don't think he understands how bad the tank meta was season 7 and early season 8. Honestly, from what I heard of who was strongest in that tank meta, it had less to do with their defenses and more with their damage. Not as many tanks were meta as tanks, while there were exception cases. Cho was tanky and had massive damage with R, Ornn became meta after his damage was buffed to insane levels and made more reliable. Sion has always been a higher damage tank, the health stacking, damage, and demolish helped him a lot. We also just recently, outside Cleaver, got % armor pen buffs, making it stronger against tanks, and adding an option for those hybrid champs in {{item:3124}}. Honestly, I agree with the concept, that fighters, and any champ if they have the ability to do so, should have to build in order to take down a target: burst for squishy, dps+Armor pen for tanks. I don’t like the idea that Conquerer bypasses that and allows the same build to be effective on both groups. More might need done, but Idk what. Tanks, while having their armor in the mid year tank update, lost a lot of health as well, so resists are their core. It’s a delicate balance point.
This is exactly what I have been saying to this guy the whole time.
: I dislike having any sort of true damage as part of an item/keystone, as True Damage is meant to be a very delicate addition to a champions kit with their power adjusted accordingly, as it's the best form of damage in the game. Putting it on a keystone/item just makes the people who can abuse these things the most completely out of line, so I completely agree with dropping the true damage. I think you'd also need to lower the number of stacks you needed to get these bonuses though.
> [{quoted}](name=Toþykachu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lJmpE2yN,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-12T16:17:43.009+0000) > > I dislike having any sort of true damage as part of an item/keystone, as True Damage is meant to be a very delicate addition to a champions kit with their power adjusted accordingly, as it's the best form of damage in the game. Putting it on a keystone/item just makes the people who can abuse these things the most completely out of line, so I completely agree with dropping the true damage. I think you'd also need to lower the number of stacks you needed to get these bonuses though. OMG yes! Please post this on my Conqueror Entitlement thread. Their are plethora of ignorant yahoos who keep arguing about how unkillable tanks were before conqueror. Smh...
: Why are you comparing them by stats? I only mention Aftershock because it's an actually broken rune that is being abused. Counterargument sticks, but I guess you'd need to find where exactly in your own text is it talking about.
Why are _you_ bringing it up if we are not going to compare them?! What was you point in making a comparison if we in fact are not going to compare them? Your argument is nonessential without bring these kinds of questions up. My point, as I have clearly explained, is that if you want to tank bust then you should not have a rune that give true damage to invalidate a tanks ability to find relevance. B/c true damage basically guarantees a tank can not compete early for farm b/c they are reliant on early resistances to survive and gain gold to be relevant by mid game when skirmishes and team fights happen. If a Rune shuts down a classes ability to find relevance then it is a problem. Also outside of Lissandra who else is aftershock busted on? Conqueror has far more abuse cases then Aftershock. Sorry I forgot we aren't suppose to compare stats even though we are comparing them... {{sticker:sg-lulu}}
: > black clever and yommus in the past vs tanks ....why were they building Youmuus? Flat armor pen is not the answer vs tanks, for similar reason why Lethality and flat magic pen are terrible against a tank. If you really were trying to build to hurt a tank, you would be better off with %penetration, not flat. Lethality, flat magic pen, and old flat armor pen has always been a poor build choice against tanks, but always the better choice for killing low defense champs
They work early was my point if you are trying to win early.
: > [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ef1NJRJg,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-02-13T05:51:49.692+0000) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > But on a serious note, your post is kinda stupid. You think bruisers should have to buy LDR/Mortal Reminder or just shouldn't be able to duel tanks AT ALL. "Just let your ADC do it." IS THAT ACTUALLY YOUR ARGUMENT? Then you'll complain that ADCs are too dominant, and also split pushing will be dead because bruisers can't kill tanks your short-sighted scenario. > > Also, the champions who use Conqueror don't have absurdly high damage or burst, or even insane mobility (these aren't assassins, who have an engage and escape). Nor where these champions "oppressive" before this rune. In fact, ~90% of them SUCKED before Conqueror. Are you memory blind by bias or do you just refuse to look at data? > > Also, taking away a class's keystone without offering an alternative is just asking them the class to be useless. You also provided ZERO statistical evidence in your argument. I've told him multiple times that bruisers built armor pen items like black clever in past seasons before conquer and he just completely ignores it and repeats his "Bruisers should build pen" argument as if he couldn't understand at ALL what I said...
And I mentioned multiple times that flat Pen or lethality is out-scaled by armor eventually as it is suppose to be and that the % pen needed bigger AD items behind them typically with crit in order to shred. You can't just get a mortal reminder with BC or TF and expect to kill a tank as a bruiser. I read what you said and I countered the point. There were already items available to combat tanks and not every champion needs true damage. Especially when their are champs with in built true damage or %health true damage shred like Vayne and Fiora. Tryn doesn't need true damage when he does shit tons of crit for free. Jax doesn't need true damage when his ult gives him tons of defenses and he can build stronger AD items. Riven doesn't need true damage when she has unreal mobility and typically builds like a melee ADC. True damage for free in a rune is a problem.
: > #Aftershock Entitlement > Why do so many believe that they should be allowed to get **resistances** for free and invalidate an entire class of champions, **assassins**? > Some of the most oppressive **mid** laners were already oppressive before this rune. If you want to **get really fucking tanky** then you should have to sacrifice a part of your build to do it, ex. buying **fucking tank items**, or relegate that responsibility to your **tank**. > **Aftershock** is a crutch to give certain champions much easier early game dominance when the worst abusers have absurdly high damage, **AoE CC** in their kits or burst. Most of them have **range** as well. > **Aftershock** should be removed, period. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ But on a serious note, your post is kinda stupid. You think bruisers should have to buy LDR/Mortal Reminder or just shouldn't be able to duel tanks AT ALL. "Just let your ADC do it." IS THAT ACTUALLY YOUR ARGUMENT? Then you'll complain that ADCs are too dominant, and also split pushing will be dead because bruisers can't kill tanks your short-sighted scenario. Also, the champions who use Conqueror don't have absurdly high damage or burst, or even insane mobility (these aren't assassins, who have an engage and escape). Nor where these champions "oppressive" before this rune. In fact, ~90% of them SUCKED before Conqueror. Are you memory blind by bias or do you just refuse to look at data? Also, taking away a class's keystone without offering an alternative is just asking them the class to be useless. You also provided ZERO statistical evidence in your argument.
Ok I wasn't making a case for aftershock in anyway but let's compare Conqueror which basically has a 100% up time to a defensive rune that has a CD of 35 sec? Oh and also it scales with AD/ AP and Health which Tanks only ever build health so really won't do much damage over all. Your whole counter argument is pretty pointless especially b/c I never brought it up in the first place.
: Kayle's not really a mage and Azir might be scary as Hell with it if his soldiers apply the stacks. The only issue will be how hard Azir is to play meaning I doubt he'll be as powerful as some of the easier champions that can make use of the ability.
Kayle may not be a traditional mage but she scales pretty strongly with AP items and on hit items due to her ranged AA splash damage. She will be extremely problematic with this rune...
: Never.
You may continue as long as your promise to share =)
: Because you're not supposed to **ever** dodge except against the most obvious of trolls. No, an off-meta pick isn't trolling.
Cho' Gath adc is troll. Whatever you are smoking put it down and walk away now.
: I've seen you use "you should of built against tanks" argument for a lot of your points So let me again stress that bruisers DID build for it and still were getting outdamaged.
Yes but you can't just buy flat pen and expect it to be relevant all game and if you get % pen then you need to itemize heavy AD behind it. Again I don't agree that bruisers/fighters should be allowed to necessarily tank bust. Conqueror is a crutch that gives a certain class of champions to bypass what would have been competitive matches. This is especially true on resourceless champions who have high damage and mobility.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lazarus Blade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ef1NJRJg,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-02-12T01:13:11.344+0000) > > Then they should buy items like Black Cleaver, Mortal Reminder, Lord Dominik's, Yommus? There are plenty of items to itemize killing tanks. No one needs free damage in a rune. The only reason Conqueror came about is b/c hashashin had cry fest on Reddit. Well that's the thing. They DID buy those. I mean all of season 7 was tank meta. You'd get black clever and still do no damage to tanks so that's not a sound argument I'm afraid all though seemingly a good point. I mean those are the only items they can get anyway and those are the items they did get and tanks were still outdamaging. Conquer was brought to life because like i said in my previous comment, tanks were outdamaging bruisers throughout the entire game with grasp and other tank stats Just look at any early season 8 gameplay before conquer. Bruisers literally had to go grasp to keep up damage with tanks and even it wasn't enough since grasp does damage based on max hp and tanks had more hp than bruisers As soon as tank items get nerfed conquer can be removed or replaced to a healthier version I'm not saying this stuff because I want conquer. I'm a garen main dude. I'm saying this stuff because it really was a necessity to compete with a class that has items that are still to overstated, even with black clever and mortal reminder/lord dominiks, and yommus. Which yommus is suppose to be an assassin item btw... Also lord dominiks/reminder is an item mainly meant for adcs since it has no other stats than damage and armor pen.
Well flat pen will allow them to win trades early. BC and Yommu's for example. You need hard damage behind mortal reminder and Lord dominiks for the damage to stick so they are not optimal buys unless they are going to buy big AD items to back them up. Point is the game is supposed to be a bit like rock/paper/scissors. Bruisers/fighters typically have strong target access and mobility which means they should not necessarily be able to duel tanks and burst them down. But if they want to then they should have to sacrifice defense items to do so. I don't think tanks should be invincible but I also don't agree that assassin's and bruisers should have a rune to allow them to invalidate an entire class. Tanks win condition revolves around building early resistance in or order to see a decent mid game. Conqueror is bad for the game.
: Because tank items were so powercreeped that bruisers toplane were literally doing 0 damage to tanks. Remember when bruisers were going grasp early season 8 because PTA stopped doing damage to tanks by midgame? It was a serious problem. But I will admit that conquer is just a band aid really but it HAS to exist as long as tank items are this overtuned and inexpensive Don't believe me? Test it out in a practice game. Without conquer bruisers will get outtanked and outdamaged by tanks and the tank meta will return. At least it will for toplane.
Then they should buy items like Black Cleaver, Mortal Reminder, Lord Dominik's, Yommus? There are plenty of items to itemize killing tanks. No one needs free damage in a rune. The only reason Conqueror came about is b/c hashashin had cry fest on Reddit.
Moody P (NA)
: tell me 1 time a tank was popular in soloQ without being busted
Tanks are not always busted outside a few outliers. A rune should not invalidate a class just b/c bruisers or fighters can not pop them like squishies. Also please keep ignoring the fact that items exist to combat tanks. Jax, Riven, ect. do not need to tank bust unless they buy the items to do so.
Moody P (NA)
: tanks weren't and arent invalidated by conqueror and we would be better off dropping this faulty narrative
That's why tanks are played regularly? Oh and {{champion:122}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:157}} are not in anyways problematic with this rune? Point is if you want to kill a tank then you should have to build for it. Conqueror was mistake that was made to appease the crying of any champ who could not auto win vs a tank without itemizing to do it. Conqueror invalidates early game resistances making tanks nearly irrelevant. The only tanks who thrive are those that have shields that give them effective health to negate the free true damage.
: Tanks are fine, just most of them are out of meta because they aren't favored. They will be in an even better spot come the changes to conqueror.
Changes to Conqueror will probably create more abuse cases and still see tanks rarely or never played. The potential for adc and mages to proc this new rune will be absurdly busted.
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Lazarus Blade

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