: You can now preorder the Lux Comic via Marvel
I'm 95% here for this comic for Sylas the Anarchist and Garen the Flawed Paladin and the hope that those two and Lux get proper character development. If I get that I'm good.
: About the Shadow Isles Denizens
We need to remember that Thresh's mental stability is questionable. Thresh has spent an unknown amount of time under the influence of dark magic (to the point where there has been a definite effect on his mental state), and undeath has arguably made him an extremely powerful being (as per his color story and Lucian's, Thresh can leave the Isles without a Harrowing). When I read that line, I read it as the ramblings of a man on a power trip, possibly enjoying the suffering he's enduring, and definitely enjoying the suffering of those around him. Thresh says the spirits of the Isles are gods, but Ledros' response makes it pretty clear he's a minority in that case. Thresh is just kinda not all there, I don't doubt that a combination of the dark magic in his vault and the Black Mist have stripped away his mental stability and has at least partially severed his connection to reality and to take away either influence would probably be something akin to a massive crash. TL;DR is Thresh is probably not all that sane and shouldn't be taken as gospel on the state of the Isles' denizens.
: > [{quoted}](name=NotaRobot1006,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=GGsK3v5I,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-30T01:47:23.240+0000) > > Old because strong enough to live long enough to GET old. no he was born old
Maybe he was also born stronk.
: You need to read the stories that have followed since Sylas was released. Demacia is going about it way differently then you are stating. For starters: 1) With in the Order of the Illuminators Lux {{champion:99}} was given the option to be locked away or join a group of Demacian Mages and explore outside their border 2) In the new short story "Turmoil" you can see Demacian Soldiers and Mageseekrs meeting a envoy from an Allied Nation. This envoy is a Mage and when the Cithria asked the envoy (Arjen) why they would bring a mage to Demacia when Sylas has just caused destruction in the great city he responded saying "Things are different beyond your borders. If you wished to discuss matters of the forge, you would summon a smith, yes? At a time like this, who better, then, to send than a mage?” The point I am making is Demacia is smarter then they look and well prepared for both insider and outsider threats.
I'm not talking about how Demacia is handling Sylas, I'm talking about Sylas' plan being outright dumb. I did read Turmoil, asking a mage for advice is not the same as "using magic to combat magic" considering the Laws of Stone banning magic are still in place.
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=aXiOJPxl,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-01-27T06:55:28.000+0000) > > Not even close. Virtually all revolutionary leaders are wealthy/upper class elite who mobilize the rabble for a regime change that better suits their interest. Anthropologist Scott Attran has documented this extensively, be it the academic elite of the Bolsheviks to the wealthy engineers and doctors who started Al Qaida and ISIS. That's why i put "opressed" in quotations. Of course they were almost never started from the lowest social classes, and most of those "revolutions" aren't even that, they are just coups, instigated with the intention of replacing the ruling class. And then it all backfires, that's how generally it ends.
The only example of a genuine underclass spurring a revolution is the French Revolution and we all know how that ended.
: There is a little issue of Geography getting in the way of Noxus. From Luxs' story, we know that Noxus wants to Conquer Demacia eventually, but their big plan for doing so was contingent on forming alliances with kingdoms surrounding Demacia. This failed thanks to Lux. This means that, even in the event that Sylas does collapse the state (or more appropriately, the state collapses on itself), Noxus doesn't have an easy way of actually getting too Demacia, and therefore have no way to effectively take and hold territory in Demacia.
That part of Lux's bio is gone though, it's not there, and from other lore that's still in place (Galio, the introduction of petricite, Quinn's story) it's clear Noxus is still trying to conquer Demacia any way they can.
: > [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=aXiOJPxl,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-01-26T15:57:56.957+0000) > > Revolutions are rarely well thought. Generally, they are born from the discontent of the "opressed", and don't have goals, other than getting rid of the guys on top. Not even close. Virtually all revolutionary leaders are wealthy/upper class elite who mobilize the rabble for a regime change that better suits their interest. Anthropologist Scott Attran has documented this extensively, be it the academic elite of the Bolsheviks to the wealthy engineers and doctors who started Al Qaida and ISIS.
Even the Bolshevik Revolution existed in a period of civil war before any actual system was put in place. Almost all revolutions have a period of chaos and civil war before a new system is put in place. They aren't really well thought out.
: Yeah I have literally no doubts Noxus (Swain and Faceless) will keep an eye on the turmoil, stoke the rebellion, and systematically get rid of Demacia's most powerful allies, and once the monarchy topples, send in their legions and take Demacia.
Added note I forgot but I bet Noxus has planted warmasons among Sylas' rebels.
Moody P (NA)
: mages? dumb? who knew?
Garen I know you like ghostwriting stuff but we're having a conversation about how the Noxus man with the demon arm is going to take over Demacia I don't think mages are the problem I think this is just a Sylas thing.
Pale Mask (EUW)
: All the better to mold him into a tool against his countrymen, right? _True Demacia_ he calls himself; a useful fool for men cleverer than he is.
Yeah I have literally no doubts Noxus (Swain and Faceless) will keep an eye on the turmoil, stoke the rebellion, and systematically get rid of Demacia's most powerful allies, and once the monarchy topples, send in their legions and take Demacia.
Rioter Comments
Naalith (NA)
: I thought the crest you call the Darkin crest was supposed to be Mordekaiser's helmet, since he once commanded his army from the Immortal Bastion? It has the distinct shape of his helmet in the center and the axes on the sides were an evolution of his emblem as the Trifarix was founded. Like if you look at the Swain teaser, the Noxian crest has glowing red eyes and everything, and Mordekaiser was the original inhabitant of the Bastion when he constructed it to house his bones. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-Uqzp1AVDM
Like I said, I'm just calling it that because it looks like a Darkin to me, but what you just wrote was literally just the first thought, that it was Mordekaiser's crest. > The first thought is that the Darkin crest predates Noxus and that the Raven crest is more usual, which would be further indicated by the only building with the Darkin crest we know of being the Immortal Bastion, which predates Noxus.
: The symbol in the Noxian arena
I had two thoughts about why it's different but the TL:DR was that the Raven crest is the current symbol for Noxus while the Darkin crest (It looks like a Darkin to me) is outdated. The first thought is that the Darkin crest predates Noxus and that the Raven crest is more usual, which would be further indicated by the only building with the Darkin crest we know of being the Immortal Bastion, which predates Noxus. The hole in this theory is honestly that we don't know if any other building uses the Darkin crest and the crest is also pretty frequent on armor and flags, indicating that the Raven crest is a lot more recent. Which leads to the second thought: the crests represent the grand generals, with the Raven representing Swain and the Darkin representing Boram Darkwill. With a recent turnover of power, Boram's crest would not only be common but a rallying symbol for people against Swain. Though not so much a hole, this particular theory does call into question why Boram would've used a crest resembling a Darkin, either as a question of whether or not he knew what it was or, if he did know, how he knew (Darkin don't appear to be a common knowledge thing) and why he chose it. ~~Of course it could also be like other people are saying and just be two wolves facing away from each other which would kinda make sense given the wolves probably being Draven and Darius~~
: If you could change a champions epithet what would it be ¿
Thresh's is already great I really like "The Chain Warden" but I won't lie, I definitely already thought of two: "The Last Helian" owing to his lore depicting him as the last person in the main part of the order's compound who isn't mindless, or "The Fallen Guardian" because of the fall from grace in his lore. However, the former might work better if Thresh had a visual update and I know the latter works best for the current Thresh.
Vlada Cut (EUNE)
: So basically. Demacia is a ticking giant Rune bomb now at this point.
Quite possibly, what's very likely is that Demacia is in the same predicament as the Blessed Isles, where there's a huge concentration of magic sitting on this land mass, waiting for someone to act on it, even inadvertently, but will cause mass destruction in the end.
: Originally it seemed Demacia's trepidation towards magically gifted people was small scale in reality. That because of Petricite exposure spanning generations upon generations, that there were only a 1%, maybe less, population of actually gifted people at any given time. So even though socially Demacians were vigilant of threats they were focused entirely on outsiders because there was never any evidence, except by slanderious suspicion pointing towards citizens. So something like a mageseeker was never really used within the country's borders and they themselves rarely meet any sorcerers. That way I always pressumed any 'oppression' was essentially nonexistent as there would be hardly anything to actually oppress, expect foreigners or prisoners of war. But now that seems to be less the case. That sorcerers are born no less abundantly than anywhere else in the world and they can use their magic almost completely unhindered.
You have a point. The magic that is canonically hindered is limited too, within Demacia's walls, Shyvana's magic is repressed and undead beings affected by the Black Mist are implied to be less powerful (not that an apocalyptically powerful Mordekaiser really cares), but that might be an effect of the World Runes. Shyvana's magic comes from an inner rune, and the Black Mist is very basic necromancy amplified to catastrophic levels by magic artifacts, a World Rune could certainly be among them too since the destruction occurred during the Rune Wars. It's possible that the high quantity of World Runes in Demacia hinders magic that's runic in nature and therefore conflicts with the present runes, hence sorcerers and natural mages, most of whom don't possess runic magic, can use magic normally.
: Yes. You must not read the stories because all of what you said was kinda explained in them lol Why do you think that Galio is alive, when he is literally a petricite statue? Because he absorbed Lux's magic.
Where do you think I got the direct statement "petricite absorbs magic"? It's literally in Sylas' biography. The thread isn't about petricite absorbing magic, it's about how that absorption affects Demacia's landscape. As I've stated before in this thread, this is the first time it had been directly stated petricite absorbs magic and that it can be channeled, rather than just implying it.
Flemman (EUW)
: well, ryze being able to cast spell in a forest of petricite was a big hint of it not supressing anything :p (and raise the concern about stacking all rune in the same place, that's a big magic bomb he is about to create >-<)
I don't think Ryze even understands petricite or how it works. I imagine the only culture that might fully understand it would be the Blessed Isles, which is since destroyed and Demacia probably wouldn't listen to anyway considering the Blessed Islanders still aware of their own identities are, respectively, unwilling to leave the Isles and so corrupted by dark magic he can't be reasoned with in any capacity.
Opop (EUW)
: I mean I don't know what it entails, however one example shown in lux's lore was forcing them to eat grinded petricite which while arguably a form of torture is still not nearly as inhumane as murder imo
I dunno I think they're both pretty inhumane and way too extreme to be justified.
GreenLore (EUW)
: Honestly I think his ultimate was simply designed before they had any idea into which direction they should take the demacia lore. However I wouldn't be surprised if they turned it into a plot point eventually,because otherwise it'd be just extremely random.
It probably was designed that way, but knowing Riot they will absolutely capitalize on it.
Opop (EUW)
: If they really were so keen on killing mages why would they even imprison Sylas instead do killing him? Lux's own lore states that mages that get revealed are either sent to ''rehabilitation'' or cast away, but not killed In fact in Sylas' lore they when they went to investigate the town for mages they had no intention of killing, at most they wanted to imprison the mage.
"Rehabilitation" seems to just mean "gets their magic ripped out" and based on the fact that natural magic is a core part of a person's very flesh in Runeterra, that kinda sounds like torture to me.
: I think I need to make a thread about the different alignments of champions and why they're that way
I've been making a 5e homebrew for Runeterra and I'd say that's a good call. It's difficult to say for certain what a corrupted champ's alignment would be, Thresh within his own corruption is definitely evil but uncorrupted probably skew more neutral like Maokai.
: Morde and Veigar are the only champions I can think of that are intentionally evil. Edit: This doesn't count champions like {{champion:223}} {{champion:412}}, who are evil because it's their nature.
Even in the case of Thresh, it's a lot more of a corrupting force behind his actions than intentional evil, I'd wager that if in full control of his own faculties, Thresh probably would be very different.
: Magic almost destroyed Runeterra in the rune wars. Don't you think people would be right to be wary of such things as not to repeat mistakes?
Apparently not considering Demacia is thus far the only place that is outright hunting down and murdering its citizenry over magic. Noxus is outright weaponizing it actually and the empire weathered the Rune Wars.
: Yes, but that explanation is limited because Petricite was not a natural occurrence, it was crafted by people who realized that the fossilized trees in a specific forest had magic dampening abilities. So if the fossilized trees and the petricite made from were a cause of some kind of fertility, it would be extremely regional to where that forest was, not over the Demacian empire as a whole - because even then, Petricite is a limited material (the trees are not infinite), so they can't afford to make every town and structure out of the stuff (and they don't since mages in the rural areas are active). So that means that petricite is really limited to the capital of Demacia, near the forest where it's crafted, which means that the further reaches of the empire are not influenced by it. Even then, Sylas discovered it COULD be channeled and he did this by actively using magic through petricite, so that's not an event that would randomly happen without a mage intervention, meaning the magic absorbed by petricite remains there.
Limited, but still a possibility, especially since Demacia built their walls, armor, weapons, and some buildings from petricite, meaning the whole kingdom is surrounded by and filled with materials that absorb magic. There's also that Garen's lack of awareness of the magic in his Demacian steel armor indicates that channeling petricite isn't really something that requires an expert or even awareness that they're doing it. I mean, the Blessed Isles' magic comes directly from a single spring of water but the fertility is still everywhere. I'm not saying this is definite, I'm saying that, to me, it makes a lot more sense. If it doesn't make sense to you, that's fine, agree to disagree, it's not like we have confirmation from Riot one way or another.
: Petricite has been absorbing magic since Galio's rework.
I'm aware, but this is the first time it's been outright stated, rather than implied. Galio's lore implies that petricite absorbs magic, and even at the time Riot was saying it seemed to suppress magic. There was an implication that the suppression was not the reality, but that's not directly stating it.
: It's not indicated anywhere that any of the other regions have more or less magic present than Demacia. I mean hell, Noxus is currently in a political war between a cabal of ancient mages and a mage general, while a great deal of the champions from Noxus utilize magic in some form or fashion. Then there's Shurima, who's country was founded on _harnessing the magic of the cosmos through a sun disk_, and their elite of the past were cosmically infused beings - plus, we see evidence of magic EVERYWHERE in Ezreal's lore as he explores Shurima as well as through Taliyah's existences as a hereditary mage. Then if we move to Piltover/Zaun, magic is everywhere there as the engineers try to find ways to harness it and merge it with science and technology. I don't even HAVE to mention Ionia or the Shadow Isles and their omnipresence of magic, or even the Freljord, with a magical race of ice people. So it's a little tough to say that Demacia has more magic than anywhere else... That said, we also have no indication what happens to the magic petricite absorbs. Obviously, Durand created Galio, and the magic he absorbs gives him life (so it wasn't news that Petricite absorbs magic...), but we don't know if it's consumed like an energy, or simply dispersed after a time. So we really don't have evidence that the petricite cells holding the World Runes are distributing that magic in any other way.
Early discussions of Shurima indicate that natural magic is uncommon there, even if the empire itself utilizes magic, and though Noxus weaponizes magic, there's a strong indication, particularly from Vladimir and Swain's lore, that magic found within Noxus is still from an outside source (Vladimir's magic comes from the Shuriman Darkin, Swain's is literally demonic). Even basilisks, a strongly magical creature used by Noxus, comes from a different part of the empire. And since the Shuriman Empire and LeBlanc predate the Rune Wars, we have no indication that these regions were once rich in magic like Ionia and the Blessed Isles or if they've always been like this. Lore indicates Shurima was once much more fertile and is becoming more fertile again, and the same could be true of Noxus. Ionia, Kumungu, and the Blessed Isles all have an indication that powerful magic makes their land extremely fertile and full of life. It's not that Demacia has more magic, I never said that it did, it's that Demacia's fertility being tied to magic might make more sense than it being fertile and there being no magic to speak of, and petricite absorbing magic and having the capability of being channelled could explain it.
: I love that Riot is finally acknowledging Demacians are not the good guys
Right? It's great they're finally acknowledging that no, the lines are not as cut and dry as they first seemed. Noxus isn't "the bad guys" and Demacia isn't "the good guys", same principle with Zaun and Piltover. Icathia is becoming less of a cruel kingdom destroyed by their own evil magic and more an oppressed people destroyed in desperation to escape a tyrannical empire. The Shadow Isles are a victim of circumstance and outside meddling rather than just being like that, and Ionia's cherished balance and harmony isn't all it's cracked up to be. Even the Freljord's three-way fight between Lissandra, Ashe, and Sejuani is more than just one perfect idealist facing two evil monsters. No one side is black or white, and it's great, fantastic storytelling and world-building and Riot finally turning that awareness to Demacia is everything I could've hoped for. Demacia isn't good, it isn't perfect, it's oppressive and aristocratic and flawed, and the champions within it, even Lux, are biased.
  Rioter Comments
Terozu (NA)
: Lux is actually very not trusting...
: I love thresh so I have one tiny bit more of a gameplay thing then flavor but it would be a great homage to his old lore In the previous lore he had sort of a thing going where he needed to collect the souls of every champ to accomplish "something" It would be cool if he had like a champion soul counter akin to ultimate hunter where he sought out the souls of enemy champs and they gave him a little more mr/armor stopping after he collected all their souls once, after that they just count as normal souls
That would be awesome too, and his ult might actually work into the lore if he were released today, like they actually would put a goal behind the soul collecting that isn't just "general evil things" since they've been doing that with other soul collectors.
Neamean (NA)
: Which three champ would you want to have an adventure together?
{{champion:412}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:13}} Weird crew but hear me out on this one: Thresh pissed off Mordekaiser so he's on the run from basically the entire Shadow Isles, strikes a deal with Luxanna "I trust almost everyone" Crownguard to help him take out Mordekaiser and Ryze joins after they wander into the petricite forest because this field trip requires adult supervision and by the gods Ryze is not letting another idiot from Helia cause even more trouble in the world, especially not THIS idiot from Helia. Coupled with an entire subplot of Lucian literally chasing them the whole time.
: If <Champion> was released today...
{{champion:412}} 1. Basically a ranged Pyke in gameplay 2. Design is more indicative of an actual Blessed Isles inhabitant and not Bonecoat McGee (I love the bonecoat but lbrh they would not keep it) 3. Follows the Yorick model of "looks more human but in a creepy way" for Shadow Islanders 4. Way more sass towards the other Shadow Islanders, like an unnecessary amount of shade 5. Taunts Lucian to hell and back 6. Lines include intercuts from Senna, similar to the Maiden of the Mist 7. Play up the fact that the whole order straight-up forgot he was in the vault that turns men mad for sympathy despite murder 8. Legit chains all over his design, none of this bone vertebrae stuff 9. Lines sound much MUCH more childish to fit with his nursery rhyme theme (which they'd keep and you know it) I have thought about this.
: I'm not actually sure Thresh would know what to do with it. All amorality aside there's nothing about a world rune that would make his soul collecting more fun. My thought is that he'd respond in the manner that he was taught to by the order he's part of and just like, keep it safe until he find someone who can just take the damn thing and hide it for him.
I'm going to add, out of mad speculation, that keeping a world rune on you when you're undead might have a weird effect so Thresh might be compelled to get rid of it as quickly as possible before the world rune's magic causes, say, a reversal of the undeath curse on him. Not that it would kill him, it might, but it's just as likely to resurrect him, neither outcome seems to be one Thresh would want.
: Who are your favorite champs what do you think they would do if they found a world rune?
I'm not actually sure Thresh would know what to do with it. All amorality aside there's nothing about a world rune that would make his soul collecting more fun. My thought is that he'd respond in the manner that he was taught to by the order he's part of and just like, keep it safe until he find someone who can just take the damn thing and hide it for him.


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