: So Less VGU and More New Champions
I was hoping for 1 rework-1 champ-1 rework-1 champ to continue, i guess not {{sticker:sg-soraka}}
: This here is with a 95% chance the teaser to the Lux comic
Also the text make sense because Sylas killed people with Lux's magic. She feels guilt. The one shattering the crest is not Lux, it's Sylas. ##"It was my light that did this."
: Champion Roadmap: April 2019
Where is my father...
: > [{quoted}](name=Lewanor,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=e2qIYUr1,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-19T18:07:06.842+0000) > > As long as it's something ***original*** and not for one of the absurdly popular champions, I don't care! But if you had to make me choose one, Viktor maybe? Viktor makes so much sense. Literally gains a new model with each {{item:3197}} upgrade. Like he starts building himself from something simple into a walking dynamite force of ~~nature~~ machinery. Either something like Demolisher Viktor ... or the less creative but arguably better Pulsefire Viktor.
Glorious Viktor, his peak for Glorious Evolution maybe? Where the world is he dreams to be? Doctor Doom like?
  Rioter Comments
: Yeah but it was OP's question if that kind of lore update will happen with Mordekaiser's re-release. With your claims mentioned above, you're suggesting there _WILL_ be a "Black Rose" LU in parcel with his rework launch. Of which I'm saying why would Narrative do that. Yes LeBlanc helped in Morde's downfall, but that's hardly grounds to do an entire LU on a cabal organization when that's the only connection they have with the Iron Revenant. While none of the Du Couteau's were even alive during Mordekaiser's time. So what thematic relevancy would that type of LU event have, and those types of characters have with the Iron Revenant? Probably none, so I stand by my earlier skepticism. What exactly is your so claimed source?
I mean they are far more connected than the mere Leblanc causing Mordekaiser's downfall. There is the build-up, there is the betrayal, there is the rising of the Noxian empire and Leblanc controlling Immortal Bastion and the secrets in it, there is Swain's rising and now probably Mordekaiser will start marching. We don't know anything about Black Rose, if they want to do something grounded, it's now. They execute Leblanc's vision. Black Rose and Mordekaiser is a lot more connected than you think. And for Du Couteaus, maybe they were who knows? But realistically the lore won't be updated only for the past. Mordekaiser will start doing his stuff, Leblanc will act against again. But the Rose can't do that without getting a proper update first. Not for Katarina but the other two and the family itself is disconnected from the Black Rose while being connected to it very much. That's why I ***think*** at least Cassiopeia will get a bio update. She didn't had one before. And I'd rather not talk about sources, there is a reason why it's hidden. But black rose being so connected to Mordekaiser, it is something that can be figured out by one's own. If they don't and I'm wrong as always, you can tell me how wrong I was, I'm used to it
: Like that's cool but I absolutely fail to see how the Du Cauteau's are meant to be relevent or even adjacently relevent to Mordekaiser. Skeptical, but that's just me.
Not to Mordekaiser, to Black Rose! General's disappearance is tied to Black Rose, they are one of the older and respected families, Cass is deeply connected with them already maybe even their mother is a higher ranked member of it.
: The Black Rose
From what I heard from a *source* Noxus will get lore overall. Since the other parts had theirs, it will definitely be about Black Rose. They are one of the, if not the main, reason Mordekaiser fell. I expect lore for Leblanc, Cassiopeia, Swain, Vladimir. Maybe the other Du Couteaus as well at later times since the family seems connected to the Black Rose.
: It's a near complete waste of the time, manpower, and other resources sunk into a $30 skin if it's not for a champion who can sell it. If they made it for someone with fringe unpopularity like Viktor, that's not a sound investment for them. There's a reason WHY Lux, Ezreal, Sona, Miss Fortune, and Udyr were selected for ultimate skins. At the time their skins were made, all of the champions were insanely popular. So it will be for an absurdly popular champion, do not convince yourself that there is even a possibility of anything else.
I don't know, while there was definitely more or less popular champions, Sona and Udyr were not extra mega popular like Ezreal, Miss Fortune and Lux from those times. From what I remember that is. I just don't want some champions to get every content possible and some left to dust forever.
: Who would you want to receive the Ultimate Skin this year?
As long as it's something ***original*** and not for one of the absurdly popular champions, I don't care! But if you had to make me choose one, Viktor maybe?
King Zeus (EUNE)
: Reav3 can you give us an update on the Tier 1 VGU list?
Krabohod (NA)
: Can we have Ornn's update item quotes back?
***"Do not hang that on a wall." "I trust you know how to use that." "No exchanges." "If you want a weapon, here's a weapon. If you want conversation, here's a weapon." "Do not waste that." "You will not be disappointed." "Ornn tested, Ornn approved." "This does not mean we are friends." "A good axe will fell a tree. A great axe will fell an army." "The weapons I forge do not have names. They have ambitions." "That's a weapon. Y'know, for fighting." "You may be worthy of that. Do not prove me wrong." "That is what good looks like." "That is for wielding, not for entertaining." "I was looking at that one too." "I didn't make that. You didn't buy it."*** I wish man, I wish... The upgrade ready lines are not neccesary but we need the item upgrade complete quotes definitely!
: I read all of it and I liked some of your ideas! While I do think that you probably shouldn't remove all that is iconic to him, like his armblade/knife cape/hood, that isn't to say you can't make some changes to it so it feels more practical. For example, you could make some changes to his armblade so it doesn't seem as silly. I would personally like to see if maybe Talon could use his own knife cape as a weapon in itself, so it makes more sense why his cape is like that.
Thanks for reading it all, not like some people that judge it by only reading the title... Yeah I am a long time Talon enthusiast, I certainly don't want them to be removed, just explored further. They are lackluster, Talon is lackluster. They need to be redesigned, repurposed! I'm always thinking for more ways and ideas but I'm only one man...
: Riven's part in the Awaken cinematic doesn't make sense to me
It's happening in the future. I'm think her being seized because she is, y'know, a war fugitive.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lewanor,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=kEelUEpk,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-04-14T11:40:09.271+0000) > > There is really something going on boards these days, suddenly posts getting downvoted to hell... But why? Someone is manipulating the voting of posts, we are aware of the issue and are investigating
Thank you guys for looking into it!
: Secret agent miss fortune
There is really something going on boards these days, suddenly posts getting downvoted to hell... But why?
: What champs would u want to see this year?
As a Noxian enthusiast I'd like a Noxian champion that actually adds something significant to Noxus. Since Kled, even if he is a really well made champion and beautiful in every aspect possible, even if he is probably one of the best design beauties in league, he is a joke champion that added nothing to the Noxus that was waiting for a hero since Draven. At least we got the Swain rework last year though! A heavily Black Rose related champion would the best because all of their champions are outdated and not getting a rework anytime soon, them being still a complete mystery helps a lot too. We'll see what will get uncovered with Mordekaiser, maybe he can shed some light to the Rose.
: Getting a new enchanter support and a new assassin this year, possibly more as well, but those are the 2 confirmed new champions as of now. Reav3 confirmed that there is a non-humanoid champion in development, so perhaps we will see them this year. We just got a Vastaya(Neeko) a few months ago, so hopefully we don't see another one for a while. I believe it was also said that there will be no new Ionian champions or reworks of Ionian champions this year, so there's also that. Bandle City is getting come love, so that might bring a new Yordle. Am I missing anything?
Yup, got everything right. Our new enchanter is probably yordle, because of the the teaser pic and the teased spirit realm lore from the end of 2018. Sadly we still ain't got nothing aesthetic wise on the assassin. We just know it will be for the midlane, nothing else. Hopefully we get the roadmap soon with new info on assassin mord and our new rework and champs.
: How it can be that we STILL have no further information regarding the upcoming comics?
If only Riot let Narrative team do their work. With all those "only one release per patch", "small problems with lore patches", "word limits" etc. They would talk without doubt if they could. But they are not letting them while also giving priority to all the other stuff.
: Lux/Garen comic for November?
That's when the physical copy will release. Considering there is a 2 months of delay for Ashe's comic for it's physical release and Lux comic is 5 issues: It should be released somewhere in May. Probably Mid May, so we are skipping April without comic. Not suprising since there has been no marketing of the comic still. I'm suprised because A comic every month was their goal {{sticker:sg-soraka}}
: I love it when people suggest that we remove every unique aspect from a champion's design and turn them into boring, milquetoast versions of themselves because they don't fit our sense of reality.
Not removal. Improvement. They just do not make sense in any shape or form with their current designs, they are extremely linear or unusuable. Some of the reworks get done because the champions do not live up to their fantasies examples being Irelia and Nocturne just out of my head.
: You know what is very interesting in your take? It is funny how this whole topic is something that would totally go against what "old main" would ask for. I was there in MANY MANY MANY topic about rework and reddit mains, and it was incredible how some aspect of an older champions they would be beyond mad to loose. What you ask to remove is basically what feel iconic to older talon main. The blade coat. The huge blade weapon. Etc. It is like when Riot removed Karma's fans or made new Swain less about a grunt tactician and more elegant, his transformation not being a crow warlock, etc. Or even Aatrox rework. Many details that could be seen as "not very good to keep" are to people what they LOVE about a champion. He is an old design but I think a valid critic against what you say is that you are homogenizing him, and sometime cartoonesque or "over-the-top" details are what attract people. People don't always something to be perfectly realistic.
Yeah people in Talonmains didn't really liked the topic and refused harshly. I think I stood over the "realism" part too much while my intention was to point out design mistakes. I still think somewhat realism is needed though. His cape and armblade are just *unacceptable* in their current designs. I am not asking for removal or giving him a different thing. They can be so much more while most of the people are naturally, afraid of change. Current design is, as some people pointed out, goofy. While even the parody and comedy champs of ours follow basic design rules I don't know why people are so against the idea of those things to be brought up to a higher quality and actually making sense.
Exıtus (NA)
: First of all, well written post, as expected from you from what I've seen on the Talon subreddit. However, I have some disagreements as a fellow Talon main. I can't get behind the metal cape. I can however agree with his armblade being more hidden and able to be opened/closed. I also personally disagree with changing his outfit too drastically. I personally love his appearance and would be greatly saddened if they changed it. That being said I didn't even know Assassins creed existed when I found Talon, and it was Talon who got me into the series. At the end of the day this is a video game and designs don't always have to entirely 'make sense' or be 'reasonable.' If we wanted everything to be realistic we wouldn't play video games like this in the first place. But if Riot were to propose a really cool new outfit that still held its homage to AC with the hood and cape while making it more 'reasonable' as you put it, I'd possibly change my mind on his appearance being updated. I do think he could definitely use a model update. No more pixelated face please Riot. I feel like with too much of an appearance change, the champion wouldn't quite feel the same for some people.
Thanks for sharing your point of view my fellow friend. I am saddened because most of the people from what I see, misunderstood my intention. I'll take what you say into consideration, thanks for taking time to read again!
: Good sir OP. have you ever considered the fact that Talon is a magician? He can throw out a few triangle like blades, have them spin in the air while lying down then return to his hand perfectly without hurting himself. He can even do stuff like go invisible, throw out a ton of blades and do the above and even direct them towards a target that he wants them to hit. That´s why he has that outrageous cape, how can any self respecting magic user walk around without it? Then as far as how much it actually stands out goes......probably not a lot given that Noxus is a giant melting pot of culture , you could probably have 3 people wearing traditional clothing from 3 different parts of the world walk side by side without it looking really out of place so talon probably blends in just fine.
There is a possibility of Talon being something like Magneto or Irelia but I doubt it because even Katarina doesn't blink anymore. She just moves fast. I think they'll make Talon like Katarina, without magical abilities.
Herlgar (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lewanor,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EW3oGcRY,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-04-07T13:01:43.480+0000) > > Totally agreed, rule of cool works but it has to be consistent. While every other mortal/human champion in league has totally historically accurate weapons like these: > > Crossbows, axes, spears, swords, daggers, flails, maces, guns, shields, bows, shurikens, hammers... > > Talon just says fuck it in the huge cast of league of legends and uses a weapon that has no mention in history, not used generall in even fantasy? > > Both of the designs can be more *realistic* at least. More believable. Just a reason for him to use inferior weapons while he can definitely use a superior one. I get what you're saying, but pretty much all of the weapons in LoL are ridiculous. Darius handles a 100+ pounds axe one-handed. Tryndamere's sword is bigger than him and so is Yi's and Aatrox's and Garen's. Yorick has a shovel, Sylas has chains and TF has _playing cards_. Surely there are more effective weapons ~~like a lamppost for example~~.
Can't disagree with that, but they still function as they should. Since Garen, Darius and Tryndamere are absurdly strong, they carry weapons that they can inflict more damage with. I think Yi's weapon is just fine, Aatrox is an ascended he is beyond mere mortals. Sylas carries them because they make him into a figure and he can touch magical people without getting really close to them. Twisted Fate is kinda like Gambit, magic stuff. No comment on Yorick's shovel but he is no mortal too. The problem that Talon has and no other does is, weapons are meant to be held in hand so that you can guide them, twist them into the current situation, from the angle enemy strikes or to block the enemies attack. But when you give up that ability and stick it to your arm, the movement becomes a problem. Assassins are meant to be agile and Talon gives that up. He forcefully tires himself. But I can get your point!
: talon fighting with a cape with blades attached to the ends of them is as silly and nonsensical as leona fighting on heels, yet it's done cuz it looks cool/nice/elegant
What does change when you change Leona's heels? What does change when you change Talon's cape? They are very different examples because one is at the core of his character, the other is a minor detail that can be changed the other day. But if you take out Talon's cape as I pointed out, he becomes a minion.
: I agree that was going to be what I said. The knife cape doesn't make sense, but it looks cool and is iconic to Talon. If he doesn't have the armblade, the cape and the hood, is it really Talon anymore?
That's what I discussed with one of my friends that wanted to redesign Talon. He wanted to take the stupid thing out of him, but I argued for them to stay, because of the reason you said. They ***have*** to somehow reshape, reimagine them so that they make sense, so that they still look unique but make sense in the way he is using them too. I think my armblade idea is pretty useful and solid, but on any idea I have for the knife cape, I am not really sure.
: So, reading through this, and especially your intro, you’re looking for more of a VU for him, an update to solely visuals and model, with little to no gameplay updates. That’s a reasonable request, and one i could support for Talon.
Because current Talon gameplay is fine, a VU is definitely more needed. But there are some reasons it won't work by itself. 1- Riot doesn't do only VUs by themselves. Morgana rework was a very special case. 2- Depending on what they do, because his cape is a big part of him, will have to be used in his gameplay. I for one, can't see how it would work, considering it will change how Talon works majorly. But I wouldn't be against if it was a VU only update!
Vlada Cut (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lewanor,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EW3oGcRY,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-04-07T12:44:22.055+0000) > > Since this is just the design-wise post I didn't talk about about his narrative. Hopefully next week or sometime around that! > > I think he definitely shouldn't be edgy in the term that's usually used because we already have a lot of them. Akali, Kayn, Katarina are the very recent examples of that. We need a true, a human assassin. Not another "Nothing personal kid" assassin. As I said, hopefully next week! I was talking abiut his design. Smarty pants...
: I’m willing to suspend disbelief for something if it looks cool. You could pick apart a lot of champions the way you just did. Historical accuracy is a boring argument imo
Totally agreed, rule of cool works but it has to be consistent. While every other mortal/human champion in league has totally historically accurate weapons like these: Crossbows, axes, spears, swords, daggers, flails, maces, guns, shields, bows, shurikens, hammers... Talon just says fuck it in the huge cast of league of legends and uses a weapon that has no mention in history, not used generall in even fantasy? Both of the designs can be more *realistic* at least. More believable. Just a reason for him to use inferior weapons while he can definitely use a superior one.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lewanor,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EW3oGcRY,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-04-07T12:20:52.995+0000) > > Totally agreed friend! Also the fact he is named "Talon" and birds strike from above and with his current armblade there is no comfortable way of him assassinating people from above, just further points on how Talon always contradicts with himself. If he actually strikes from above, its likely his blade will be stuck there. It would be very silly unless the blade is disposable.
https://pro2-bar-s3-cdn-cf1.myportfolio.com/104baae407c3bf6924ab16701d4f9991/9b3ca10e76cb32dbb0972c4a_rw_1920.jpg?h=8bf66d05d994a6914f34c0b39a760dc8 This is how aerial assassinations work usually and I doubt Talon can twist his blade like this
Vlada Cut (EUNE)
: He's Batman, but edgy.
Since this is just the design-wise post I didn't talk about about his narrative. Hopefully next week or sometime around that! I think he definitely shouldn't be edgy in the term that's usually used because we already have a lot of them. Akali, Kayn, Katarina are the very recent examples of that. We need a true, a human assassin. Not another "Nothing personal kid" assassin. As I said, hopefully next week!
: He can wear a cloak, but a cape with weighed blades that are used for nothing is just ridiculous. You know, they can add hidden weapons aside from blades to Talon's kit so that cloaks are justified to wear. It would be cool as well. ...And yeah, maybe its time to add a real "Talon" factor to his weaponry such as striking from above. Like frigging Batman.
Totally agreed friend! Also the fact he is named "Talon" and birds strike from above and with his current armblade there is no comfortable way of him assassinating people from above, just further points on how Talon always contradicts with himself.
: I would say, based on nothing but my own assumptions, that at least one reason behind Talon's 'lackluster' character design. Is at the time of his release (2011) Riot was pumping out multiple new champs each month. It's clear, all 24 (wow that's a lot!) champs from then have very one-dimensional concept design. So it's clear that Talon's 'flaw' is mostly a product of Riot's work status at the time. Knowing that I don't believe it's entirely fair for us to use our contemporary hindsight, to now throw criticisms at the production choices of the devs back then. But it certainly doesn't mean Riot is absolved of that criticism. I'm happy to give you my precious internet points. But only as I admire the serviceable justifications for your argument. I think the strongest part of this thread is that there is nothing considerably wrong or inappropriate with your criticisms of Talon's entire character design, they're all reasonable on some level. Just as I mentioned before, it is a 'flaw' of it's time. We can probably be assured that a character like Talon would be designed far better today had that been the case. ;-) Also: I share in a similar (un)popular opinion, I think LeBlanc should be considered for a full VGU oneday soon. As much as people would like to see her visuals updated, I think fans have grown far too ~~attached~~ complacent to her kit. Where Riot would be too scared to completely change it, in fear of community alienation. Which I could easily imagine the same hesitation Riot could have towards a possible Talon rework. So as much as I think these champs would benefit from a sizable rework, I thoroughly doubt it. Which imo is a huge disappointment of lost potential for characters with particularly boring, incohesive, mostly senseless designs.
Thank you for your kind words and points. And yes I agree, Leblanc is definitely should be reworked as soon as possible. She is lackluster and bad in every way possible. Gameplay, narrative, design... She should be reworked asap
Rioter Comments
: Yea * Mikael's crucible is in need of a rework. Overly ping reliant and can be made to better work for players of all skill levels * Ohmwrecker - tower disable hasn't proven to be a healthy mechanic and the item has nearly 0 users currently * Wit's end was this recently - if our 9.7 changes don't give it a more used niche it would fall in here Some opportunities that we would like to pursue with freed up space * More choice and options in lethality builds * An ap bruiser / ap melee item * All around cleanup of support items, get some more choice in there and dont force players into 5 actives in one build
Please consider removing or changing Duskblade. The item is not fun or interactive. The passive damage part is not fun for me, as an assassin player. It can focus on it's utility part more, but probably that would make the item broken in higher elos. But it'd be awesome if you took a look to Duskblade.
: Champions That Need a VU (at least to their base skin/vfx), But Not Necessarily a VGU
1- Shaco, Kennen, Rammus, Corki is on tier 1 VGU list. Reav3 said he want to give Vladimir his due when the time comes, so he's pretty close to tier 1. 2- They have done only visual updates in the past. They realized it was not making them any money, so they stopped. Now they continue VU updates with like Ezreal and Morgana, when they get the chance. I'm pretty sure Riot's updating team is willing to work for VUs but they are not allowed because of money stuff.
EdgeLady (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lewanor,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1EJgc9HQ,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-04-04T14:58:45.093+0000) > > It'd be Noxus if it ain't for Kled, but what one can do... Damn Kled... Yeah, and I can see why people don't count Kled for a recent Noxian champion, since he's totally out-there. But if I'm not wrong about the Awaken wristblade, the new assassin might be our next Noxian champion. And he/she is the next champion coming after Mordekaiser.
I'd think so as well, and I hope so too but the people I talk that stuff about seems preeeetty confident it's not a noxian because there are already a ton of assassins in Noxus. If it is Noxian, I expect it's either someone from Black Rose or someone connected heavily to the Du Couteau family because of their plot. Maybe it's even General? Who knows
: The Noxian Eyebrow
Du Couteaus are not Noxians confirmed.
EdgeLady (NA)
: Yorick is an old champion, but technically we haven't had a *new* Shadow Isles champion since Kalista. Now that Sylas is out, it's the second-longest region to go without a new champion, if I'm correct, with the first being Bandle City. However, since the new support is almost certainly going to be a Bandle City Yordle, that makes the Shadow Isles number one. I'd love for Ledros to be a champion. It's possible that he's the new assassin coming after Mordekaiser, but if he was formerly a valiant knight I would guess he'd be a bruiser instead (and I'm still banking on the wristblade in Awaken as being a teaser for the new assassin).
It'd be Noxus if it ain't for Kled, but what one can do... Damn Kled...
: > [{quoted}](name=Lewanor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EEB8xXEt,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-03T12:52:50.465+0000) > > Can say the same thing for Leblanc and Fizz, it is not because they are AD, it is because of their design Well yeah , and a new champion will surely be overpowered with such a design
Can't disagree with that, but I'd prefer it to be AD since there are many options for ap assassin players to choose from while there are so less for ad ones.
: Ok full disclosure, I didn't read the whole thing. I'm just wondering out of talon, zed, and yasuo, which isn't an assassin?
Yasuo assassinates everyone. Can't be seen if there is nobody to see!
: Are you joking? Games are already dominated by AD champions. Have you ever checked {{champion:157}} and {{champion:238}} 's pick/ban rate? These two cancers are already the most popular champions in mid lane. Half of the mages are not even played in mid lane anymore. Also for your information {{champion:103}} is an assassin and {{champion:131}} is a diver.
Zed and Yasuo is cancer because of their designs. Not because they are AD. And those two are almost banned every game, I too ban them. I hope that new assassin doesn't follow their way. Also yeah thanks for the info!
: And those 3 ad mid laners are the most complained about and unfun to play against.
Can say the same thing for Leblanc and Fizz, it is not because they are AD, it is because of their design
: hm I wonder why maybe because mid lane is more meant for mages than assassins
I think it's a good thing to have some diversity. All other AD assassins (except for Pyke, Zed, Talon) get played in the jungle.
Rioter Comments
ZoWeeLoli (EUNE)
: > {{champion:101}} should 100-0 an adc with a full combo. > {{champion:91}} should 100-0 an adc with a full combo. > {{champion:99}} should 100-0 an adc with a full combo. {{champion:99}} & {{champion:101}} burst can be dodged and be played around unlike {{champion:91}} point&click burst.
What? Talon out of all assassins has the most counterplay options, easy to shut down, easy do avoid etc. He's definitely the most balanced "assassin" out there in terms of counterplay.
: Mm, fair enough. I see your point. Although he was adopted by Noxians, so I think it makes sense for him to have some more Noxian style to his clothes. Maybe not absolutely Noxian, but Noxian enough.
He'll still be born in former or current noxian cities but I was thinking of maybe he can take some stuff of the former empire before the Noxus conquered it. People were asking for some representation beyond Noxus Prime so it'd make sense
: Mm, perhaps! I can see them getting a duo update. To be honest, I think Talon's weapon is kind of cool and unique. It's his clothes and his cape that are wack. And he needs to look way more Noxian.
I think him looking non-noxian can be used, maybe he can be not from noxus prime like most of our champs and be someone from outside. In his uniqueness, he is unique alright but he's unique just to be unique. The unique parts he has makes absolutely no sense. I was writing a thread about this I'll post it soon
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Lewanor

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