Rioter Comments
Sh3nd (NA)
: Another Topic about Aatrox!
He has a free GA and a ton of attack speed steroids. That said, his CC has such a high CD and isn't "good" enough for him to function like a tank late game like Maokai/Nautilus/etc..., and there are so many champions in the game that are better than him at his own niche. If he builds on-hit because of his great attack speed steroids, he is essentially a bad Xin Zhao or Yi/Kayle with a knock up. If he builds crit, he is just a shitty Tryndamere, Xin Zhao. If he builds tank, do I really need to go through the list of tanks in the game that do the job better than him? His kit will always be weak because he has a free GA. They need to tweak that in some way in order for him to be effective, because that is whats holding him back.
: I appreciate the fact that you started the post off by admitting that you are bias
I am saying in detail why lethality is broken op right now by design and should be reverted. The whole idea of lethality is bad and we should go back to the old system because the damage of champions such as Talon, Pantheon, etc.. shouldn't scale so well into late game.
Rioter Comments
Sarutobi (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=LordTulkus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5ie02iEK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-02-14T18:29:54.012+0000) > > DING DING DING we have a winner. > > Playing support (like everyone wants you to play) means you are ALWAYS behind. You cant 1v1 anyone (for the most part) and are a ward bot (the thing that I find the most un-fun) > > This is what they need to do. > > Make Items like Jungler Items that require you to have Heal or Exhaust as a Summoner to buy. They are Items that the ADC would NOT want but give actives that are what a support WOULD want. Allow a Support to get Gold like any other Role. Give them Bonus Warding and Ward placement Range. > > This way you can shape the Support builds and play styles without messing with the Mid Lane builds for champs like Zyra, Lux, Malz, Annie, ect > > Support items make them tankyer for AP builds and more Utility (longer slows, extra Stuns, Better heals, Shields) Allowing a team fight to last 20-30s is NOT a bad thing to the game. Having a ADC blowup in .2s by a Rengar or Zed at the start of a team fight IS a bad thing for the game. But then wouldnt these work better on other champions not typically on the support role. I mean this is the reason why Frost Queen Claim got nerf hard. it was good on the support, but heavily abused towards others lanes because of the cc and gold income. What is stopping other lanes from using Heal, or Exhaust and getting more gold than usual. Plus your idea basically means Supports are suppose to be Warding bots. Everyone should be warding period. Thats the reason why we have a limit now because people dont understand the importance of warding and assume (and still assume to this day) that warding should only be done from the support!
If Riot were to do it that way, then they would give support's their own seperate items similar to junglers. Junglers give up a summoner spell in order to have smite, for the sake of balance supports would give up a summoner spell in order to have access to their items. Lets say, heal or barrier. Edit: This would make Flash or Ghost + TP standard for top, Flash or Ghost + Smite standard for Jungle, Flash or Ghost + Ignite/Exhaust standard based on matchup for mid and marksman, leaving supports to take the support oriented summoner spells (heal, barrier) that would in turn provide them access to support-only items.
Rioter Comments
: Im seriously not a huge fan of this grading system [Rant]
You died 9 times and had only 173 cs. Less mistakes, more farm.
: > [{quoted}](name=Honeybadger2198,realm=NA,application-id=2XjzURgc,discussion-id=rsf1aAsj,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2015-06-05T19:10:39.821+0000) > > There are classes for sports right? why cant there be a class for league keeping people active is incredibly important for the good of our society right teaching people to play video games... isn't
League of Legends is different from most online games. Normally, players can enjoy games. MANY players do not enjoy playing League of Legends. I explained this to my girlfriend the other day: LoL is the same as any other sport out there, there are people that play to have fun because it is a game, and those that play to win because it is a competition. I am the second person. If I play League, I plan on winning. If I play football with my friends, I plan on winning. Others enjoy the games, win or lose. That said, due to the nature of games such as LoL and DotA2 and with the popularity of e-sports rising I can see a future where college level e-sports takes place in the same way there is college level football, baseball, etc... I can see people getting scholarships for e-sports later on. There are already college teams throughout the country for LoL and other e-sport games, so why not make the leap in the future? I am a huge fan of the NFL, but I don't see how the contributions of those in the NFL to society are any different from that of a pro gamer. They are both in the entertainment business, and both are highly competitive/require great amounts of teamwork. And yes, I can see how a game such as LoL can be applied to real life. You can learn from games in the same way you can learn from football, baseball, hockey, basketball, lacrosse, etc.... You need to work as a team, and you need to have a deep understanding of the mechanics in order to be successful. The same can be said about any other sport and most jobs.
: Idk why you think champs like lee/gnar/ekko are bad. IMO, champs like old ryze, annie, tryndamere are not fun to play against at all. When a champ can do more stuff with their abilities, it requires more skill and planning to win a trade, when it's a binary champ, their moves are easy to predict and are limited. You said the same thing in your post but you're wrong about "kids and teenagers like to watch LCS big plays", most people like to watch complex plays. Maybe you like binary champs and you like to play simple out farm, out trade, outnumber game plan but I would prefer watching a match where teams have to find the "free wards", dodge abilities that do 2+ things rather than old ryze vs jax matchup. It makes the game complex but it's far more fun to deal with. Plus ekko has just been released, it will take some time to balance him and will take time for people to learn how to play with/against him. Try to pick up these new champs, mastering them is much more challenging and fun but worth. Trolls will troll with teemo/anivia/Ad ryze, they don't need new champs to troll with.
As stated in another post: > These champions are not complicated or hard to play, they are stupid and overloaded in comparison to the many binary champions in the game such as Annie, Master Yi, Ryze, Olaf, Tryndamere, Trundle, Mordekaiser, etc... You cannot dispute the fact that some champions are capable of MUCH MUCH more than others. League of Legends has been around for roughly 6 years. The majority of these overloaded champions were released in the later 3 years of this games existence. Lee Sin and Nidalee used to be unique, now champions like them are all over the place. > Because of how numbers oriented and how binary most champions were the game itself was much more of a team game. There were much more hard-counters and a lot less even matchups. This game was more about team-strategy than it was about "out-playing the other laner" The community never used to be so nasty, now you see QQ threads all the time about assassins and players who "went 14-2 but still lost" and don't realize it is a team-game and should be played as such. In higher elos the direction Riot has gone with champions doesn't have nearly as much of an effect on players in the lower elos, however. If you play a binary champion (which most champions pre-2013 are) it is as if you are playing a totally different/old game when you are facing one of these over-loaded champions.
Rioter Comments
: You are infact an immature troll, worse then the *Opposites of mature adults*. More complicated skills and designs = Dumbed down to you? really? Ekko is a well designed champ so is gnar and lee sin, they are all above average in hard mechanics so dont say they are dumb. The only response i am sure i will get is *YOU ARE PROBABLY SOME 12VIE WITH NO LIFE UGH OMG GO BACK TO SCHOOL FAG TWELVIE GO HAVE SEX WITH YOUR DAD FGT FGT FGT* Cause that is the result of toxic adults.
Ekko / Lee Sin / Gnar / Jayce / etc.. most champions with 8+ abilities or abilities that do many things... You say these champions use "More complicated skills and designs" and "they are all above average in hard mechanics so dont say they are dumb." No, these champions are not complicated or hard to play. I have a background in games such as Starcraft / Diablo 2 / EverQuest 1 & 2 / WoW... all of these require many more than just 4-8 abilities to operate a character effectively. A champion with 8 abilities (or 4 abilities that each do many different things like in Ekko's case) is not complicated at all whatsoever for experienced gamers. You put words in my mouth. These champions are not complicated or hard to play, they are *stupid* and *overloaded* in comparison to the many binary champions in the game such as Annie, Master Yi, Ryze, Olaf, Tryndamere, Trundle, Mordekaiser, etc... You cannot dispute the fact that some champions are capable of MUCH MUCH more than others. League of Legends has been around for roughly 6 years. The majority of these overloaded champions were released in the later 3 years of this games existence. Lee Sin and Nidalee used to be unique, now champions like them are all over the place. Why have overloaded kits? Why have kits that are capable of so much more? Because they are fun. The issue with that is that these "fun" champions begin to outclass/outdate the "old, binary champions" This results in a game that values skill shots and mobility over raw power. Skill shots and mobility is fun. This gives outplay potential. Back in the day when everything was straight-forward and binary there was much less outplay potential. Much more emphasis was placed upon the core mechanics of the game, such as last hit technique and whatnot. Instead of defined strengths and weaknesses, we have some fucked up mess now. Why? Because fucked-up messes are fun. Children don't care about balance, they care about #lcsbigplays , and thats cool. Not a knock against kids, that is where the majority of Riot's cash comes from. Riot makes fun champions, the kids are happy. Fuck balance. And that is why we have trolls. > The only response i am sure i will get is YOU ARE PROBABLY SOME 12VIE WITH NO LIFE UGH OMG GO BACK TO SCHOOL FAG TWELVIE GO HAVE SEX WITH YOUR DAD FGT FGT FGT Cause that is the result of toxic adults. I am not that type of person, however by the response you give me we will see the type of person you are.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: POLL: What is Riot's most balanced meta so far?
People don't say season 1 because they weren't around during season 1. Season 1 is the greatest Era of LoL. It was before Riot got a boner for assassins. Akali, Kat, and Kass were the only assassins in the game. Mobility was a unique feature, Stealth champions had more of an impact on the game (Remember how Twitch and Eve's stealth used to work?) The jungle was perfect. Since Season 1 LoL has been run by a bunch of fucktards with ADHD that don't know a good thing when they see it.
Rew711 (NA)
: Every time I go Morde mid, its the one time I see a champion not ever used mid like {{champion:6}} or {{champion:64}}. Its hard.
Never go Mordekaiser mid imo. Send him top. Mordekaiser is a shit-tier roamer. Morde wins a lot of match-ups in mid lane and top lane, however he has the worst ganks compared to the top tier mids of the game. That is why he is best sent top.
Rew711 (NA)
: Not just him. {{champion:12}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:154}} and {{champion:26}} But thats only if you don't mess up and if he isn't able to counter them.
People claim that Mordekaiser is shit and needs to be reworked while he has a ~55% win rate in top and mid lane. He also counters every single champion that people have been QQ'ing about on the threads. Leblanc, Zed, Katarina, Ekko... assassins get shit on by Mordekaiser because his passive guarantees him to win trades against a large amount of champions in the game.
Rioter Comments
: That's also a good idea, if free runes aren't to be applied. But i still believe runes should be free, so that people don't get in disadvantage for not saving up all their IP early on for runes when playing against someone else who did.
People are so obsessed with "what else do I spend ip on?" well fuck, DotA2 has no currency and you are given everything in game when you first start. People need to stop tripping about spending the IP when they need to consider why its there in the first place; so Riot can make money off of us. 1 rune page costs about 18k, basically 3 6.3k ip champions. Its bullshit. In order to play ranked you should have atleast 3 full rune pages and 20+ champions. Its needless restrictions on the game.
: If by balanced you mean binary and boring, then yes. His entire kit revolves around him overbuffing himself to the point the enemy melts in any possible 1v1. He has no satisfying moments, no clear rewards. All he does is press QWR to get buffs and just right click you to death, with the occasional ice pillar up your buttcrack. Alistar's R is also a self buff, but he screams and bursts into berzerk mode, screaming while braking free of CC and getting 70% damage reduction. All trundle does is let out a diarhea howl, and all of a sudden cum spurts come out of your champion and go to him, while he gets a bit larger in size.
Well yeah, Riot isn't capable of balancing anything aside from the most binary of champions.
Arsames (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=LifeCyclesTWA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ijZ3nUci,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-05-30T09:29:02.114+0000) > > STOP COMPARING McDonald's burgers to Wendy's burgers @ ... lol that is too stupid to finish. > > You realize how retarded you sound? They are both games of the same exact genre, LoL was made by some of the creators of DotA. There will be comparisons, so shut the fuck up and have an open mind you QQ'ing little girl. LoL is superior to DotA(2) in every possible aspect, if you want to complain about LoL and praise DotA(2) go play that garbage game DotA(2). It is funny all those who trash LoL, keep playing LoL while claiming DotA(2) is better, just so they can sleep better at night, blaming champion design instead of accepting the fact that they simply suck at LoL and it isn't the champs, but THEY, the players, who need to l2p. Not directed at you, just explaining it for all ;)
McDonald's is superior to Wendy's in every possible aspect, if you want to complain about McDonald's and praise Wendy's go eat at that garbage restaurant Wendy's. It is funny all those who trash McDonald's, keep eating at McDonald's while claiming Wendy's is better, just so they can sleep better at night, blaming burger quality instead of accepting the fact that they simply can't handle the McDankness and it isn't the burger quality, but THEY, the customers, who need to l2e. Not directed at you, just explaining it for all ;)
Arsames (EUW)
: STOP COMPARING LoL champs to DotA(2) champs @ Unranked/Bronzies/Silvers/Goldjokers.
STOP COMPARING McDonald's burgers to Wendy's burgers @ ... lol that is too stupid to finish. You realize how retarded you sound? They are both games of the same exact genre, LoL was made by some of the creators of DotA. There will be comparisons, so shut the fuck up and have an open mind you QQ'ing little girl.
DrNova (NA)
: Dota is a different game, the way they do things leads to their more natural diversity. Granted its a little better approach, but it makes Dota a different game. And having played both, I just prefer leagues more.
It doesn't matter whether or not it is a different game, it is of the same genre. I can use Heroes of Newerth as an example for all I care. There is a TON of natural diversity in this game, if Riot stopped forcing change it would occur naturally. Champions with overloaded kits are getting old. The community is going crazy about the mobility creep. Before it was "this champion is good at this but sucks at this" now it isn't so clear cut. They are making champions completely backwards and changing items without changing champions to compensate, and changing the jungle without changing the junglers. This poor balancing and direction the game has been going has rendered many of the older champions in LoL out-dated and out-classed. It is unfortunate.
Igotlazy (NA)
: Can We Just take a Moment to Appreciate the Most Balanced Champ in the Game
Actually, most balanced Champion of all time is {{champion:48}} He has been around since December 2010. > v5.9 > Pillar's slow is stronger and knocks units further away. > > > PillarofIce.png E - Pillar of Ice > SLOW 25/30/35/40/45% ⇒ 30/35/40/45/50% > KNOCK BACK DISTANCE 150 ⇒ 225 > v5.5 > Passive range upped to match experience range. W's healing amp is now the same at all ranks, and R's been slightly buffed due to a bugfix. > > KingsTribute.png Passive - King's Tribute > RANGE: 1000 ⇒ 1400 > FrozenKingdom2.png W - Frozen Domain > HEALING AMPLIFICATION: 8/11/14/17/20% ⇒ 20% at all ranks > Subjugate.png R - Subjugate > BUGFIX: Fixed a bug that caused Subjugate to only steal 36% of the target's Armor and Magic Resistance instead of 40 > v5.4 Passive range upped to match experience range. W's healing amp is now the same at all ranks, and R's been slightly buffed due to a bugfix. > > Passive - King's Tribute RANGE: 1000 ⇒ 1400 > > W - Frozen Domain HEALING AMPLIFICATION: 8/11/14/17/20% ⇒ 20% at all ranks > > R - Subjugate BUGFIX: Fixed a bug that caused Subjugate to only steal 36% of the target's Armor and Magic Resistance instead of 40% > v3.05 > > Pillar of Filth > Fixed a bug where Pillar of Filth could stop uninterruptible movement abilities such as > Malphite's Unstoppable Force > v1.0.0.152 > > Base Movement Speed increased by 25. > v1.0.0.150 > > Rabid Bite mana cost decreased to 30 from 40 > Contaminate's cast animation no longer locks Trundle out of using other abilities > v1.0.0.131 > > As of the Volibear patch, Contaminate's CC reduction applies to Silences and Blinds > v1.0.0.129 > > Contaminate now additionally reduce silences and blinds, but no longer allow them to walk through persistent slowing fields such as Kog'Maw's Void Ooze when stacked with other disable duration reductions (ie: Tenacity) > v1.0.0.123 > > Fixed a bug where Rabid Bite was not blocked by Spell Shield, Shroud of Darkness, or Banshee's Veil > v1.0.0.118 > > Fixed a bug where the particle for Pillar of Filth could queue up in the fog of war > v1.0.0.116 > > Fixed a bug where Rabid Bite could be dodged > v1.0.0.106 > > Trundle released
DrNova (NA)
: Just because people are meta slaves doesnt mean its a problem. Thats player mindset, not the game. And I liek that things are always in flux. Its why League is league. things are new every season, and it keeps the game fresh. Every season there is always something people talk about. "Remember the tank meta." "Remember Feral Flare era: ect. I prefer things to be changing and adapting then staying the same for all time. Change brings life, a stale game is less healthy. If the game was perfectly balanced, it would have to remain as is for a long time, and it would get old. It stays unbalanced because things change. So learn the changes, adapt how you play. It makes for a healthy game.
> Just because people are meta slaves doesnt mean its a problem. Thats player mindset, not the game. I agree. > And I liek that things are always in flux. Its why League is league. things are new every season, and it keeps the game fresh. DotA2 remains fresh despite the fact there are hardly ever any major changes. This is because every game is different and every hero can be played in many different ways. In this game, if you play the carry role you will always be in bot lane with a support, possibly top lane with a support. In DotA, you can be in what is called a defensive trilane, and offensive trilane, the traditional duo lane, solo in the offlane, solo in the safelane, etc... Also, there isn't a cookie cutter build for carries. Every hero has clear cut strengths and weakness and you are going to want to build to offset those weaknesses as much as possible while countering the enemy team. > Every season there is always something people talk about. "Remember the tank meta." "Remember Feral Flare era: > ect. Meta changes occur normally. The meta is what the most popular strategy is at the time, the developers of the game don't need to force meta changes by adding a bunch of items to the game, changing the jungle, and reworking/overloading champions. For example, when LoL first started people used to send their "Marksman" mid and their "Mage" to bot lane. Keep in mind the only assassins in the game were Akali and Katarina back in 2010. Akali was countered by pink wards, Kat by CC (since then they have weakened her ult and strengthened the rest of her kit) Ashe and Twitch were the most popular mids by far. However, the meta changed when people started sending their Mages mid to counter the ADCs. Eventually, this became popular and ADCs were moved to bottom lane and given the support that they'd be able to safely farm. No items caused that change, a change in player strategies did. The same is with DotA/DotA 2. For example, the meta was similar to LoL for a bit a while ago. They'd protect the carry so that late-game they can carry their team to victory. However, not long ago pushing teams were the meta to counter that. People would hardcore push lanes as a team and win games early before the other team's carry was farmed and able to make an impact. Because of this, late-gamers became less popular in favor of heroes that were strong early and mid-game. However, in order to counter this players started running gank heavy teams. Players then were punished heavily for pushing. Basically, Riot is FORCING the meta to change when we the players could do that ourselves if we had some stability. > I prefer things to be changing and adapting then staying the same for all time. Change brings life, a stale game is less healthy. If the game was perfectly balanced, it would have to remain as is for a long time, and it would get old. I respect your opinion about preferring change. However, I would still point to DotA as a great example of a game that has remained popular despite a lack of change. Again, players create change. DotA hasn't gotten old, that is why DotA 2 is pretty much the same game and the same builds from DotA work in DotA 2. No need to force change when it occurs naturally. > It stays unbalanced because things change. So learn the changes, adapt how you play. It makes for a healthy game. It does not make for a healthy game. It makes for one of the most toxic communities of all time and a confused playerbase that has trouble keeping up with all the unnecessary change. Change can be good, but not this often and this drastic.
Rioter Comments
Bern (NA)
: Nope. This is partially because League kits have so few options by design, and also partially because Riot gives very little time for metas to settle inbetween patching so Riot can get an accurate view of what's actually strong in the current game. There's also a sense in which the game is unlikely to ever seem at balance because champs and comps, at balance, should "cycle through" different metas that beat the previous. You see this in MtG; one week, aggro is meta, so everyone switches to midrange, which makes control beat the new meta, which then makes aggro beat the emergent control meta, etc. (This is a simplification, but it's a fairly accurate for how simple the explanation is.)
The game will never be balanced because Riot keeps on fucking with it. The meta is always being changed because Riot is run by a bunch of fucks with ADD. You like the new jungle? Thats nice, its going to be completely changed in Season 6. You have a favorite champion? They are going to be nerfed/buffed overplayed/underplayed and then eventually reworked in the future when people deem their kits "old" Compare that to DotA2 which is pretty damn balanced and has remained much the same since the first game. A DotA player can hop onto DotA 2 and use the same exact builds they used in DotA1 and still be successful. People in this game call 1-year-old kits "old", jesus imagine what they'd say about kits that have remained largely unchanged for 10 years? What makes DotA fun despite the lack of change? What makes people play DotA even though you are given every single hero in the game when you first start playing? Because its fun as hell. There is no hardset "meta" like league of legends. In DotA, you can run 2 top, 1 mid, 2 bottom (referred to as 2-1-2), you can run a 1-2-2, a 3-1-1, an agressive or a defensive 1-1-3. You can or cannot have a jungler. You can have someone that just roams around the map gank people, otherwise known as the roamer/ganker. There are so many fucking roles in DotA it is ridiculous. It seems complicated, but its really not. Its basically a big "do whatever the fuck you want, if you really want to make it work you can."
: If you like Dota 2 then go play that more mang. No one is forcing you to play this game
I love League of Legends, been playing since February 2010. However, the direction Riot has taken this game with all the reworks and overloaded kits has hurt my impression of the game. I miss when every single champion in the game had clear-cut strengths and weaknesses. That is why I just recently got into DotA2, they are very stable. Here in LoL the community turns to shit when the kids are out of school, in DotA2 all you have to worry about is elitist pricks (which there are a lot of) screaming *meta* *this* *meta* *that* Personally, I'd rather deal with people with egos than children/ragers.
: Eh, kinda unimpressed, honestly. Playing as him as fun, but he's too vulnerable early game, atleast in mid lane. Too vulnerable to poke, farming with Q chews through your mana, and if you go all in, most mid laners have the cc to trap you and return fire. the delay on his W makes it pretty hard to get the stun off in a 1v1, its pretty easy to see coming. He does better late game than I expected, but thats a bit of a trade off. He doesn't have as much burst as other assassins, it takes him a few passes to get the job done. Overall, maybe SLIGHTLY overtuned, but certainly not to an outrageous extent
Its weird, what they did was make an assassin that scales into late game, where all the other assassins fall off... I don't know whether or not I like that.
: Lmaooooooo! His q is so easy to dodge though !
His ratio's are off and he will be a balancing nightmare. I'll hit you up in a month or two and we'll continue this discussion.
DrNova (NA)
: The QQ is strong with this one.
Not QQ so much, just a big fuck you to the many people who said I was "stupid" or "wrong" Guess what, now all of you are getting shit on by Ekko. I enjoy your tears and looking at all the Ekko QQ threads. You know why? Its a big fucking *I* *told* *you* *so* I should join the balance team, the .2 + .6 ratio on his poke is fucking insane, he has a dash as well as a blink, and his ult has no cost. He is also the only assassin with hard CC. But you know what? Fuck me right? Nahh I'm playing DotA2 while they fix their fucking video game.
Rioter Comments
: I don't think so. People said the same thing about Azir. And people were struggling to use him well before his nerfs. Ekko looks like a genuinely high skill-floor high skill-cap kind of guy. I mean, an assassin that DOESN'T burst people down? Thats something pretty new.
Hey buddy, how is Ekko looking? I'm still saying his numbers are off the mark and his kit is overloaded. How about you?
: {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{champion:86}} teed after i lane tax your ass but serious? would you rather tax a few cs OR just let you lane get harrased and die and feed. yea im taxing that ass cs.
Your mentality is the cause of your massive failure in ranked. If you gank and fail, leave and farm your jungle. Don't take the laners cs, you already sapped off some of the xp while you were there when minions died therefore giving the other laner the level advantage in lane. If you gank and succeed, awesome, either push down the turret or leave and go back to doing your job as the jungler. Here is a math/LoL lesson I gave to someone else: > Math: > > Minion waves spawn once every 30 seconds > Jungle camps, with the exception of red and blue, spawn every 100 seconds. > > Each jungle camp gives a tiny bit more experience than a minion wave. > At 300 seconds (or 6:55 in game since minions get to lane at 1:55 and jungle camps spawn at 1:55) there will have been 10 minion waves and 12 jungle camps, not including red and blue. However, the number of jungle camps cleared and how quickly they were cleared determine how many camps will have spawned. More than likely, you will see around 8 camps, not including red and blue, by that mark. > > If you are on top of your shit in the jungle and clear the camps as they spawn once every 1:40, you will outlevel your bot-laners and be close to your mid and top in levels, possibly higher if you have been farming the jungle (because there are more camps spawned every 100 seconds than minion waves) > You cannot dispute the facts that I just posted. Lane tax is something Bronze-Platinum scrubs do. In a game with skilled players you will not see a jungler take someone's farm because "they failed a gank." However, you may see them push the lane with the laner in order to get objectives, such as turrets/dragon
: you do know that junglers need farm too right? taking a few cs isn't a problem especially if they don't even have their jungle item yet. Junglers right now are either full damage assassins or tanks with tons of utility, so of course they are going to carry. Also laners have an infinite supply of CS while jungle timers spawn every 1 minute and 40 seconds. And what about when laners need help pushing so they can back? Should they just waste 15 seconds trying to get their farm or should you push the wave to tower and deny cs to the enemy laner?
Math: Minion waves spawn once every 30 seconds Jungle camps, with the exception of red and blue, spawn every 100 seconds. Each jungle camp gives a tiny bit more experience than a minion wave. At 300 seconds (or 6:55 in game since minions get to lane at 1:55 and jungle camps spawn at 1:55) there will have been 10 minion waves and 12 jungle camps, not including red and blue. However, the number of jungle camps cleared and how quickly they were cleared determine how many camps will have spawned. More than likely, you will see around 8 camps, not including red and blue, by that mark. If you are on top of your shit in the jungle and clear the camps as they spawn once every 1:40, you will outlevel your bot-laners and be close to your mid and top in levels, possibly higher if you have been farming the jungle (because there are more camps spawned every 100 seconds than minion waves)
KoKoboto (NA)
: > I've seen many games against Mordekaisers recently where they started off amazing, but fell off hard late game because they were so damn squishy... 1 stun was the death of them when focused. Yeah, one stun is the death of many squishy champions/mages,Master Yi, Caitlyn, Cassiopeia, Azir, LeBlanc- You pretty much been saying "Because Mordekaiser has bad AP Ratios and because he dosen't have w/e else he should be built tank cause his base damage is high and just get some magic penetration wow!" Ap Mordekaiser is strong because of his ability to take down a carry instantly, his damage becomes his shield and he heals more from his ultimate when building AP, as such nothing is wrong with building Mordekaiser full AP. Of course he in some cases would be more vulnerable than other mages due to no CC, but you just have to play better, or do damage as damage will make you more durable. I play tank magic penetration Mordekaiser sometimes and enjoy it, I also play full AP Mordekaiser and enjoy it, I find success playing it both ways all you have to do is change your plan. In you're 3rd and 4th points in the main post you talk about full AP Mordekaiser as being stupid but its not, its fine. Regarding you're first two points the few people that beg for Mordekaiser reworks merely want him to be up to meta standard where insanely heavy CC has always been there in a sense and although Mordekaiser through damage can survive some, a bit of CC would be useful. Also Mordekaiser's ratios are not actually bad but balanced, imagine if at 800ap he had HIGHER ap ratios to go along with the 35% instant health steal and 70% health total steal he would be a better Veigar. Mordekaiser can do well as a full ap mage and he does, people usually don't know how to play with him as they are used to some extra backup CC from their mid laner like Orianna or anyone else, Mordekaiser relies on flanks and strong teamplay AP or tank, easier as tank.
At level 18 Mord's passive is capped at 630. You can reach this cap using a magic pen build, and that 630 shield will be very strong due to the fact you have over 200 armor and mr, you will also still put out great dps... what dps you lose from missing some AP you will gain back through your staying power because of the tankiness. By stacking mass amount of AP, not only is it not efficient due to the poor ratios, it is also wasted because your passive caps your shield at 630, that is SOO much wasted potential. Have some CDR from runes and masteries and be tanky as hell. I honestly don't see what the craze is about glass-cannon Mord
: Is Nasus even counterable? (Nasus QQ thread. Salt everywhere.)
Nasus is a slow-bot and shit compared to 95% of all the champs in the game until he grabs some stacks for his Q. Win asap, if the other team has a Nasus that means that its a 4v5 for the first 20+ minutes of the game. Make use of that.
Xonra (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=LifeCyclesTWA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pW4Isc3N,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-27T01:10:57.190+0000) > > Flatly, I believe you are wrong. Riven was considered a shit-tier champion for years because people used to build her tanky. Now, they build her flat AD and wreck. > > I have played Mordekaiser since the day he was released back in 2010. He is my favorite champion. He has ~55% win rate. He shits on 90% of all meta top-laners during the laning phase, and is a hard-counter to all burst champions in the mid lane (including Yasuo, Zed, Talon, Katarina, and beats Leblanc in lane) He struggles in the late game in solo queue because of his lack of CC, that is not a fault of the champion. That is him being reliant upon his team to pack the CC so he can reach his full potential, and his potential in the late game is far greater than the majority of all champions in the game. Not much is more scary than a full-build Mordekaiser. I'm thinking you are just imagining things now. I don't remember anyone, aside from someone trolling, ever building Riven tanky, and I've been playing since before she came out and then some. From the fact that you just said Morde shits on "90% of meta top-laners", I'm thinking maybe I'm having a discussion with the wrong person, cause you are living in a world that is off in left-field. I hate to sound rude, cause I imagine I did there, but I can't really have a further discussion here, cause I just raise my eyebrow at about half of what you say in general in your responses to just about everyone in this thread. Thanks for responding at least.
No, you didn't sound rude. I come off as a dick to a lot of people, if anything you come off as honest and I respect that. http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/riven-s2-157699 I can reference many out-of-date S2 riven guides that build her tanky-dps, and none that build her in any way similar to today's Riven. I've been around since Feb 2010, a week before Panth and Gragas were released. When she was first released and for a while afterward she was not built as the glass cannon fashion she is built today. And yes, I exaggerated greatly when I said "shits on"... the better way to put it is "He can safely farm against 90% of all champions" There are very few champions in this game that are capable of harassing Mordekaiser out of lane 1v1. That is why in many of the games he is in it is not uncommon to see Mordekaiser lead the game in farm, if not be in the top 2 every time. He has over a ~55% win rate, and that win rate falls off strongly in Diamond+ elo, I believe that is because you are less likely to get away with a glass cannon build at that rank and he should be built more defensively. Not long ago it was the popular build to drop a DFG on Morde, now people need to adjust if they want to win higher ranked games with him. I've seen many games against Mordekaisers recently where they started off amazing, but fell off hard late game because they were so damn squishy... 1 stun was the death of them when focused.
Xonra (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=LifeCyclesTWA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pW4Isc3N,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2015-05-27T00:47:22.728+0000) > > All of these issues would be solved if you just built him tanky. I love his kit. His AP Ratios are shit, .6 and .4 on his E and Q, his primary damage abilities. However, his CDs are so short and all of his spells hit multiple targets so he winds up doing great damage over time. > > So why is it people insist on playing him bursty despite the fact his AP ratios are shit? It was possible with Deathfire Grasp was in the game, not anymore. Build him tanky, make him hard as hell to kill, while at the same time building his damage. > > Here is an example full build for Mordekaiser: > > {{item:3020}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3001}} <---- core items. Those 3 works amazingly well together and will make you VERY damn hard to kill mid-game and do very damn good damage. Also, all of those synergize very well with your abilities. Q+W require you to be in people's faces, so does Sunfire. Abyssal Sceptre gives you much needed MR, and gives you AP, and reduces the MR of everyone around you. That syncs very well with his whole kit AND Sunfire Cape. Also, Abyssal Scept + Sorc Boots = 35 mag pen. That is near true damage to most everyone early-mid game. Buy magic pen reds and quints, and you are sitting at 50 magic pen. Abyssal Scepter can reduce people's mr below 0, resulting in you dealing bonus damage. You are very damn tanky, and you will melt people standing next to you early-mid game. > > {{item:3075}} --- Works perfectly amazingly well with Abyssal Sceptre and punishes AD opponents for attacking you. Also provides much needed armor. You are a beast with Sunfire + Thornmail + W. > > {{item:3135}} --- You already have a very high armor due to Sunfire + Thornmail + W, but now your damage is falling off because it is late-game right? So buy this. It gives you AP and much needed magic penetration so you can continue to melt your targets. Again, your numbers might not LOOK at good as AP Mordekaiser's, but you have so much damn penetration and tankiness you make up for that difference by being able to last MUCH LONGER and have a by having bit more magic penetration. > > {{item:3102}} or {{item:3083}} --- Banshee's if you need MR, otherwise take Warmog's. The regen makes up for your lack of spell vamp and makes you even more damn unkillable. His issues are not build specific, his issues are the fact that his kit is now officially outdated, and was balanced around a few items that either don't exist, or have been greatly changed for years, and he has seen no number changes (in the buff direction) for years. His shield was changed dramatically from all damage adding to his shield, that was also a bigger shield, to a MUCH smaller shield now, and barely adding to his shield on minion damage, and mostly just champion damage, which greatly impacted his laning phase. His issues simply can't be fixed by picking some different items, otherwise more people would be playing him if it were that easy. If you Build him tanky, you should play someone else better at it - If you are buildy him damage, you should be playing someone else, and if you are trying to be the burst, sustain mage, then why aren't you playing Vlad? Everything you mentioned just attempts to make him a much worse version of someone else that does what he will then do, but much better. tl:dr: His kit is outdated and clunky because he hasn't been updated with the times or item changes, compounded with the nerfs he has received over the years with no compensation for them.
Flatly, I believe you are wrong. Riven was considered a shit-tier champion for years because people used to build her tanky. Now, they build her flat AD and wreck. I have played Mordekaiser since the day he was released back in 2010. He is my favorite champion. He has ~55% win rate. He shits on 90% of all meta top-laners during the laning phase, and is a hard-counter to all burst champions in the mid lane (including Yasuo, Zed, Talon, Katarina, and beats Leblanc in lane) He struggles in the late game in solo queue because of his lack of CC, that is not a fault of the champion. That is him being reliant upon his team to pack the CC so he can reach his full potential, and his potential in the late game is far greater than the majority of all champions in the game. Not much is more scary than a full-build Mordekaiser.
Meep Man (NA)
: Mordekaiser, Garen, and Darius have a spot in competitive. Im legit surprised Darius hasn't seen play recently.
They aren't played competitively due to their lack of gap-closers and hard CC. Every competitive champion has atleast one of those, with the exception of some AD carries.
Xonra (NA)
: Morde needs a rework, but not an overhaul to his kit as much as some completely new abilities in place of a few, or at least change how they work. Here is my reasoning: **Iron Man**(passive): This is a neat idea, and it worked a few years ago, partially because of the fact his shield built up faster with minions, but changed to barely impact use against minions, and work mostly against champions. This crippled his shield passive immensely, and certain items being removed and changed over the years, with no changes to how his passive interacts with items and his own abilities. - I think his passive is interesting enough for him to stay, but perhaps some sort of change that works with ability use and not primarily damage only. **Mace of Spades**(Q): I've never liked this to be honest, as this is takes his interesting "tank" mage vibe (at least aesthetically now), and randomly forced him to be even closer range than his short range abilities already were. Not bad completely, but I think something closer to hitting an area and the aoe (very small aoe) did damage in a not far from melee range range, compared to hitting something in melee and it sort of breaking. Just think this would be a QoL change. **Creeping Death**(W): I don't like this at all. This seems like an outdated ability now, especially given the rest of his kit. This seems like a tank specific ability with a bit of a sunfire cape-esque feel. Seeing as you can't really do the tankish thing on him for years now, this ability doesn't feel like it fits in his kit anymore. I think I would prefer something that simply buffed his passive shield over this, and remove the casting on allies and minions part out completely. I think his E and R are honestly pretty good and fairly theme fitting. His Q and W need some big tweaks, and his passive needs a little work to make it less clunky, but he needs changes.
All of these issues would be solved if you just built him tanky. I love his kit. His AP Ratios are shit, .6 and .4 on his E and Q, his primary damage abilities. However, his CDs are so short and all of his spells hit multiple targets so he winds up doing great damage over time. So why is it people insist on playing him bursty despite the fact his AP ratios are shit? It was possible with Deathfire Grasp was in the game, not anymore. Build him tanky, make him hard as hell to kill, while at the same time building his damage. Here is an example full build for Mordekaiser: {{item:3020}} {{item:3068}} {{item:3001}} <---- core items. Those 3 works amazingly well together and will make you VERY damn hard to kill mid-game and do very damn good damage. Also, all of those synergize very well with your abilities. Q+W require you to be in people's faces, so does Sunfire. Abyssal Sceptre gives you much needed MR, and gives you AP, and reduces the MR of everyone around you. That syncs very well with his whole kit AND Sunfire Cape. Also, Abyssal Scept + Sorc Boots = 35 mag pen. That is near true damage to most everyone early-mid game. Buy magic pen reds and quints, and you are sitting at 50 magic pen. Abyssal Scepter can reduce people's mr below 0, resulting in you dealing bonus damage. You are very damn tanky, and you will melt people standing next to you early-mid game. {{item:3075}} --- Works perfectly amazingly well with Abyssal Sceptre and punishes AD opponents for attacking you. Also provides much needed armor. You are a beast with Sunfire + Thornmail + W. {{item:3135}} --- You already have a very high armor due to Sunfire + Thornmail + W, but now your damage is falling off because it is late-game right? So buy this. It gives you AP and much needed magic penetration so you can continue to melt your targets. Again, your numbers might not LOOK at good as AP Mordekaiser's, but you have so much damn penetration and tankiness you make up for that difference by being able to last MUCH LONGER and have a by having bit more magic penetration. {{item:3102}} or {{item:3083}} --- Banshee's if you need MR, otherwise take Warmog's. The regen makes up for your lack of spell vamp and makes you even more damn unkillable.
: not at all. if the gank succeeds the benefit is worth more than a few cs. and the jungler is supposed to wait for your commitment before going in for the gank. therefore you have to initiate the fight. and lane tax is a must because sitting in that bush "waiting" puts us behind more than you actually know
You sicken me. As a jungler main, the term "lane tax" is used by useless wastes of air that claim to be junglers but in all actuality have not a single fucking clue what their job is. First off, "lane tax" is the dumbest fucking thing ever. You aren't going to be the head damage dealer on your team bud, leave carrying to your ADC. How do you carry as a jungler? By helping your laners succeed. You know what "lane tax" does? It makes them fail. You took away their gold and experience. They COULD have beaten the other laner to level 6 but you, the fucktard jungler, decided to hang out in their lane for far too long. They COULD have bought the BF Sword, but your dumbass fucked with their farm. You are a cancer to all the teams you have ever played with and honestly, you should play ADC or Mid with the mentality you have because you are a poor excuse for a supportish role that the jungler plays.
NemeBro (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=LifeCyclesTWA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pW4Isc3N,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-05-24T15:03:46.562+0000) > > Ahh, the champion with a ~55% win rate sucks. Thanks for enlightening me with your highly intellectual opinion, bronzie. Speaking of win rates, the build paths on Mordekaiser with the highest win rates are glass cannon builds that rush a Luden's Echo. Why do you think that is?
Mordekaiser players can get away with building poorly on Mordekaiser due to the fact he counters most meta champions *really* *fucking* *hard* Enemy team has a mid Yasuo, Katarina, Leblanc, Zed, Yasuo, or Talon? No fear, Mordekaiser is here. Due to the nature of his passive, not only is he going to be incredibly hard to burst down for assassins, he is guaranteed to win the majority of all trades against them! Mordekaiser can out-harass Yasuo by a longshot (Mord's passive is basically Yasuo's on steroids, and Mord has much more range and reliable damage) Also, Yasuo's windwall doesn't block any of Mordekaiser's abilities with the exception of the aoe of his Q, the initial hit hurts Yasuo 100% of the time though. Katarinas love to shunpo on top of you then use their burst combo, which normally hits like a truck. However, Mordekaiser just has to his use his E to kill all the minions around her/build up his shield, and hit her with his Q. GG. A Katarina cannot jump on Mordekaiser. Same with Talon, except he is much worse off. If he tries to harass you with his Rake, then he is going to get smacked in the face with your E. If he jumps on you, same thing as Katarina... that W+E+Q combo works wonders against them. Its the same for every melee champion with the exception of Xin Zhao (who hard-counters Mordekaiser due to his great early game power, sustain, gap closer, and hard cc) Mordekaiser also counters the majority of all top-lane champions. I highly doubt any champion in the whole entire game can farm as effectively as Mordekaiser. The only champion in the game that comes close to Mord's harass+sustain capabilities is Yorick. They both have outrageous amounts of harass in the lane phase coupled with amazing sustain, and very strong defense due to their passives. They also have very similar ultimates, Yorick is cast on allies and yours is cast on enemies though. They both are cancer to enemy laners and shit on 90% of all meta top laners. There are 2 major differences between Yorick and Mordekaiser: 1) Yorick has CC, Mordekaiser doesn't. This results in Yorick being more likely to get kills in lane and Mordekaiser having to rely on enemies to make mistakes to land kills. However, what Mordekaiser lacks in killing capabilities he more than makes up for that in farming capabilities. 2) Yorick falls off very hard late game, Mordekaiser is one of the scariest champions in the whole entire game late-game. Yorick has *very* fucking good AD ratios, so why don't people play him glass cannon like people do with Mordekaiser? I don't know, probably because Yorick players are more intelligent? Mordekaiser players seem to be obsessed with carrying and fail to realize that while glass-cannony Mord is strong early in the game, he falls off *hard* against any intelligent team in the late game due to the fact he is so damn easy to blow up and kill once he gets stunned due to his lack of armor/mr. That is why his win-rate is so shitty in challenger+ ranks but great in bronze-platinum, people go into late-game with their fuckin {{item:3152}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3285}} {{item:3089}} build and wonder why they get shit on so quickly.
: well i beg to differ on the never in danger of dying the only time that your really not in danger of dying to him is if you are ranged have stupid sustain or have the ability to safely farm from range via abilities, so in other words morde counters assassins most of the time they cant jump on him due to his innate tankiness in his passive they cant outsustain him after he gets revolver they cant roam or he can push like maniac and if hes smart he'll ward, and he can zone them from farm after 6 cause he can most likely burst them down due to how squishy assassins are and how big his bases are
Yeah, that is the great thing about Mord and partly why I am surprised he isn't more popular. Burst assassin mids that terrorize most others such as Zed, Talon, Katarina, and Leblanc are hard-countered by Mordekaiser. They can't burst him down, and are punished for attempting to do so. Mordekaiser is unique in that he is the only sustain-based champion that counters burst damage (I believe). Normally champions that are based on sustain such as Warwick, Yorick, and Vladimir are countered by champions that can burst through their sustain, Mordekaiser is the exception due to his passive. That is partly why he and Malzahar are enjoying high rates at the moment, because they shit on assassins. Mordekaiser is also great because he counters many tops. Problem is his lack of utility, which his team has to compensate for in order to be successful. Same can be said about Fiora, Master Yi, and any other champion without decent/any CC.
KoKoboto (NA)
: You have no fking CC, that one spell you land onto someone isn't going to do shit because you only went with magic penetration, after that one spell you're just gonna get kited out dumbfk And don't make assumptions on how I play Mordekaiser or if I even play Mordekaiser, I play him tank or full ap sometimes dumbfk and I stopped at Gold V and don't even bring rank into discussion fktard
I don't make assumptions, I look at your match history. And you sound really stupid when you say "the one spell you land onto someone isn't going to do shit because you only went with magic penetration, after that one spell you're just gonna get kited out dumbfk" Look up how magic penetration works. {{item:3001}} should be bought in 99% of all games as Mord, it is the best item in the game for him and provides all the AP he needs. He does loads of damage even when built tanky due to the nature of his kit. He has really short CDs and all of his spells are AoEs. If you can't understand that, then I don't know what to tell you. If you don't build tanky you will die instantly when focused/cc'd in a teamfight. Also, just because you build tanky doesn't make you a tank. You can build full tank Vayne and that wouldn't make Vayne a tank. Building Mordekaiser tanky doesn't make him a tank, however it does give him staying power in fights, which is what he thrives off of.
Zydin (NA)
: I don't see why you got down votes, I really like how you explained things here, and how much a problem it can be if the laners keep taking jungle camps.
Its because the title I believe lol. I should remake the thread and call it something like "The Job of the Jungler"
: Why I Will Never Gank for You
Cleaned up the chart, sorry guys.
Rioter Comments
Droogzy (NA)
: PSA From All Junglers to Everyone
I've made this same thread many times. I agree full-heartedly. Some junglers can't gank worth shit but are amazing at farming the damn jungle very quickly and efficiently. FE: Shyvana, Master Yi. People feel like you are not contributing when you aren't ganking 24/7 and totally underestimate how much of a factor counter-jungling can be. So yeah, farm the damn jungle, and make your laners feel like pros when they get double-triple kills when the other team's starved under-leveled jungler tries to force a gank.
: Yeah there was a forum post about this a day or two ago that got a large sum of upvotes. It was from a jungler's point of view. He gave us a lot of math on death streaks, how much gold you've given if you have a high amount of kills and deaths (sorta like your 12/12/12 guy), and how much a high death streak guy with tons of assists (0/12/12) would be worth. The guy with 12/12/12 basically gave twice as much gold to the other team than the 0/12/12 guy because every time he got a kill he reset the amount of gold he's worth. It definitely changes the general way of thinking among the community. Once everyone learns this notion of who's a "feeder" and who_ isn't_ everything will change. The sad thing is this is a basic truth that's been around forever.
I'm that guy! I just wish people took into consideration that although they have 12 kills and are fed themselves, chances are no one else on their team can handle the fed members of the other team. You can go 8-6 in the first 10 minutes of the game, getting a kill for a kill toplane and winning some trades in addition to taking their tower. Awesome, you are winning your lane, right? Issue is, your botlane is winning their lane. Your Jinx is doing pretty damn good and is sitting at 2-0 10 minutes into the game and the enemy Vayne is getting harassed out of lane and can't even farm. We'd all agree that is a great start to a game. However, what is that Jinx going to do when the dude in top lane that already has 6 kills comes down to bottom lane and starts tearing shit up? Not only is the gold given to the other team an issue, but the amount you are giving relative to what other people on your team have earned. You should try to keep your deaths to a minimum because of this. Sure, you may be having a fast-paced match up up in top lane, but in bot lane your team is going slow and steady in the right direction. It sucks, and I definitely agree with the OP's idea.
KoKoboto (NA)
: ***
He does have shit ratios, that is a fact. Just because you build someone tanky doesn't make them a tank. Mordekaiser benefits greatly from magic penetration due to his high base damages. Build items that give him penetration and tankiness and raise his damage output. Its not hard. {{item:3068}} {{item:3001}} {{item:3075}} {{item:3020}} etc... Deathfire Grasp is gone. Stop building him like a glass cannon, build him so he can take some hits, get a ghost, and woop some ass. its not hard. Even without a ghost he does solid damage. Sorc boots + Abyssal Scepter is like 40 magic pen right there, you should have magic pen runes as well, so you should have a minimum of 55 total magic pen early in the game. You are doing true damage to most everyone on the map at the point you get those items. Fact. And, you are hard to kill because you build defensively. That is the point. For Mordekaiser, his offense contributes to his defense... everyone knows that, but what a lot of these dumbfuck players (like you) don't understand is that his defense contributes to his offense. Fact of the day: You can't do damage if you are dead. Build him defensively, win games. I can't help you if you are too stupid to realize that. One day if you heed my advice you may become something greater than the little Gold V player that you are. PS: Zhonya's is not a core item on Mordekaiser, it is situational. Stop rushing it every game after you get WotA. In fact, stop rushing WotA. That is a dumbass item to rush. If you want the spell vamp, build the revolver and wait to upgrade it until late game. The 8% increase in spell vamp won't do shit for you early in the game in comparison to what other items can, and won't help you much without much AP to back it up. Scrub.
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LifeCyclesTWA

Level 46 (NA)
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