: Looking on joining a team, Gold/Plat toplaner
Hey are you still looking for a team? We need a top laner under P3. We are playing in upcoming amateur tournaments and seasons. The past 3 seasons we have played in 3 different leagues finishing 2nd out of 8, 4th out of 16, and 2nd out of 8. If you want to try out, feel free to add me on League (LittleOak) or on Discord (LittleOak#3325). New season starting first week of February and would like to get tryouts done as soon as possible! ^-^
Bjartan (NA)
: Svalder, the Glittering Keeper
Along the same lines of having the Ultimate ability really make the champion feel like a totem master, what if his Ultimate was available at level 1 like the transforming champions (Nidalee, Elise, Jayce, etc.) and you place a "greater totem." The greater totem looks almost like a miniature tower or something of decent size and significance, and you can move it with your passive, and when you're within a certain range from your greater totem, your abilities get stronger. I jungle and personally have wanted to see the Shaman type character able to jungle and I always love seeing champions that can flex oddly but still work (Like Sejuani support or Hecarim Top). I don't know how you would do it but I think you could feasibly power up all his abilities around it. Like his Q instead releases 5 bolts rather than 3, his W gives allies a major movement buff when moving towards the greater totem and enemies a major slow when running away from it, and E maybe passively heals when you and allies at a flat rate (like, if red buff is 20 health a second, give it 20 health a second healing for the greater totem, but its split over all champions in the area so if it's bot lane, the two share the healing only healing 10 health a second or in a late game team fight it's only 3 health per champ if there are 5 grouped or something like that or make it so you and your allies have to channel the greater totem to get the passive healing). I think another minor thing could be for his E, having it be a point and click, single target ability normally, but if you use it on a ward, the ward bursts turning it into an AoE heal with less healing but a minor buff that gives more health regen for a certain period of time. Really cool concept, I know Riot has discussed a Shaman champion and cannot decide on a play style. If they dropped this I think it would be super cool. Hopefully he isn't locked into a single role and is able to be flexed throughout the map (but imo I think many more champions should have this capability but that's just me) xD Great stuff!
Sukishoo (NA)
: Pantheon and those awesome splashes!
I love all the work y'all did on these pieces. Not even a complaint, but could we get Dragonslayer Pantheon's splash art mirrored so he is consistently left-handed throughout all splashes and in game model?
Rioter Comments
: I do notice them. Like junglers are not in my asshole 24/7, and the role snowballs a lot less hard. Definitely sucks _to be_ a jungler - but it was overall healthy for the game. IMO they could've done better, but it was a good fix for the time being.
> [{quoted}](name=Disembark,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cAKQYbLc,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-01-30T18:41:30.287+0000) > > Definitely sucks _to be_ a jungler More true words have never been spoken. Hoping jungle gets some love, I feel like its just been repeatedly kicked since patch 8.10. The scuttle changes, level 3 ganks no longer exist, if you die in jungle you can never catch back up, and biggest of all, we are again at a time when the jungler (unless completely ignoring ganking and getting every scuttle crab) is the last person on the rift to get ultimate.
: Love how no one is talking about Vi getting completely gutted in 9.3
Ahh, I see you've written quite a lot on the topic. Much work was put in here. I will reply with a comment explaining why she's not getting gutted, just shifting power around with the same eloquence that you have written your post with: _ahem_ She's fine.
Smeagiul (EUW)
: Not sure where you've seen some Bard gameplay in pro play, Ardent Meta wasn't even enjoyable as a support trust me, and yes we agree that dmg supports have been the trend lately because of the 8.2 sightstone and like i said in my comment earlier, support is "strong" for the wrong reason, support role should be about being a support and not a second carry, and you feel like support is a strong it's mostly due to how adcs are weak atm.
> [{quoted}](name=Smeagiul,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=bOoAxRmj,comment-id=0027000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-30T17:35:47.538+0000) > > Not sure where you've seen some Bard gameplay in pro play, Ardent Meta wasn't even enjoyable as a support trust me, and yes we agree that dmg supports have been the trend lately because of the 8.2 sightstone and like i said in my comment earlier, support is "strong" for the wrong reason, support role should be about being a support and not a second carry, and you feel like support is a strong it's mostly due to how adcs are weak atm. Thank you for pointing out the one single support listed that was the exception to the rule, sorry if I got worlds mixed up with other games, it's hard to keep track. Getting back to the matter at hand: Doesn't matter if Ardent meta was enjoyable, and I didn't say that they're strong because the ADC is weak. Ardent meta was completely support dominated, after that, between 8.2 and present support has been strong because they do their job well AND THEN they do more on top of what they're supposed to. Thresh, Braum, Alistar, Tahm aren't secondary carries, but they raise carries up when bot lane has been in such an abysmal spot since the 8.11 changes that it's playerbase hasn't completely left the role. The damage supports do the same thing except they keep the enemy away and allow the carry to farm up to a spot to be able to fend for themselves. Support is a strong role because they do their job and can do their job better than most other roles can. Your champions "turn on" relatively early, you need minimal gold, and can still be the deciding factor of whether your team wins or loses every game. Same with top lane being strong up until recently with the Irelia and Aatrox changes. If you let those champions get to a full item or two, they face roll you. On top of that, most supports were still able to be played regardless of the meta whether they were tanks, playmakers, enchanters, or mages and you'd have a pretty solid chance at winning.Supports either have so much CC or damage that they're one of a team's biggest threats. Compare that to a jungle Xin Zhao or Camille, two or the premier junglers after 8.11. They have a super strong level 2 gank that can greatly influence a lane, but after that, you need to either snowball or you fall off around level 13. You're not putting out enough damage to kill targets before they kill you, you can't take down tanks or supply enough CC on enough high priority targets to make major differences in teamfights and you don't keep up the stats to stay alive very long come late game. You need to win the first 5 minutes or you're behind and a burden to your team for the rest of the game or until the enemy fucks up enough to get you back into the game. On top of that, most junglers that didn't have a strong level 2 gank and early game were forced out of play.
Smeagiul (EUW)
: Sorry to disappoint you but you should track all the changes to happened to the support items and all the items that were removed too because of the old quest being replaced with a free SS to please "autofill" support players before calling support a strong role.
> [{quoted}](name=Smeagiul,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=bOoAxRmj,comment-id=00270000,timestamp=2019-01-30T17:11:40.809+0000) > > Sorry to disappoint you but you should track all the changes to happened to the support items and all the items that were removed too because of the old quest being replaced with a free SS to please "autofill" support players before calling support a strong role. I have kept track of the changes. I miss the sightstone days but with the new quest system support got stronger because they no longer need to spend the extra money and item slot just for wards. On top of that, look at some of the most volatile support over the past year. Brand, Zyra, Pyke, Thresh, Vel'Koz, Xerath, (with worlds favorites being Tahm, Bard, Alistar and Braum). All are either high damage or high set up. It's a strong role and it shows by the types of champions being played there most frequently over the past. If support wasn't strong, bot lane wouldn't have survived through patch 8.11 at all, and I don't think we even have to mention Ardent meta. Support has been a very strong role for over a year's time.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 30
Hi there Meddler, The changes in season 9 feel both positive and negative. I see where the jungle changes needed to happen to balance out the professional meta with the level 3 gank strategy but there are many tank junglers that haven't been viable since halfway through season 8 because they are too weak early to contest scuttles, fall behind, and need to scale but the games have been too short to scale up and with this new round of changes to the jungle leveling junglers slower, tanky, CC, supporty junglers feel really bad to play. Is there any chances of jungle exp getting changed around ever again or a QoL update to more tanky junglers on the horizon? Champions like Skarner, Zac, Amumu, Warwick, and Maokai all feel like you need to get lucky with an early lead, be against a jungler who doesn't know what they're doing, or you have to hope to god that your team face rolls the enemy. As an aside, last season there seemed to be a lot of taking champions out of the jungle (Aatrox and Irelia reworks don't terribly excel in the jungle the same way they could have prior to their reworks), but was also a willingness to not "gate" entry to the jungle with champions doing flat damage rather than "reduced on monsters" damage, or like with Neeko's Q repeating on any kill, I feel like in prior seasons that would have been "repeats damage on a minion kill or champion hit" effectively making her not able to be played in the jungle at all. Are there any plans to open up the jungle to potentially any champion? I play a lot of 3v3s and one of my favorite things was always Ornn in the jungle because he has decent clear, can impact both lanes equally, and have a good powerful team-focused ultimate. I think opening the jungle up to more champions and playstyles will be more healthy for the game as a whole (and a nice acknowledgement to the junglers who I feel have just been getting the shaft recently in terms of changes. Every role is important, and everyone should be an equal part of the team but the past 6 months has felt like a lot of direct jungle nerfs and hits and we haven't gotten anything in return. Top lane is finally getting some hits, ADCs are getting their items back so they'll be kings again soon, support has been a strong role ever since the patch where quests have been put out, and even after the AP item rework, mid lane still hasn't changed much in terms of power. Jungle feels the most mutable where one patch we are clearly the most impactful role, and the next, we are nerfed to oblivion and need to figure out all new paths and which champions do those paths most efficiently. I miss the jungle of the first half of season 8. You could play anything be it a tank, damage, AP jungler, or Ivern and Nunu and still have a shot at winning. Nowadays I feel like if I don't pick Kayn, Evelynn, or another high damage jungler, I'm putting my team at a disadvantage. Again, love the game and think this season has been doing a lot of things right, just wishing for some equality.
: And the Training Continues?
Personally, as someone who made the climb from B4 to S3 this season (over the span of 2 months August to October) here's the advice I would give: A. **Tighten your champion pool**: What I did when I started climbing is I went to champion.gg , I looked at all the junglers (jg main) and I picked 5. No matter what happened, I would only ever play 1 of those 5 champions. Rammus, Kayn, Poppy, Amumu, and Evelynn. I based these champions off of a few factors. Firstly, it's solo/duo queue, it's rare you get someone who wants to play tank, so I decided to pick up more tanks than carries. After that, I looked at champions who had solid winrates for players with less that 50 games played, and who's winrates increased with games played. This clearly gave me information that "these champions are easy to pick up, and as you learn the nuances to them as you play them, you will get better with them and win more." Finally I picked champions that fit my playstyle. For example, I am very good at macroplay, watching the map, team fighting, and dueling other champions. My KDAs are crap, but if I die, I almost always get a kill and an assist for it, and if not I'm supporting my team and picking up a lot of assists. This bleeds into my next point.. B. **Find a Duo partner you can trust**: This has always been a big one for me. If you're having trouble climbing on your own, it's because you're trying to carry 4 other players. If you have a teammate, you only have to carry 3 other player's maximum, but usually less because your teammate will be pulling his part as well (hopefully). Find someone who compliments your strengths. For me, I found 2-3 really good ADCs. Because I picked 3 tanks, most games, I path to level 3 gank bot, get my ADCs 2 kills, back and just repeat gank until they're super ahead and then I build Knight's Vow, and just defend/peel for them going into the mid game and try to win off them scaling early. C. **Change your queue times if possible**: I've found out this season, that while trying to climb, all games after 11pm local (for me) on weeknights just don't work. There are so many college students who get stoned or drunk and then think they'll just hop on league and play. I changed my queue times from 10pm-1am to 6-10pm and it's worked wonders. That combined with the above tips really gave me good quality teammates in the right mindset for games. D. **/Mute all**: Your teammates can communicate everything you need to know via pings. If you're in lobby, and people seem to be typing too much, just mute when you get into game. You waste time reading chat, plus if you're duo'ed you can be in voice with your teammate and you two can make calls together. Hope this helps, from another Silver scrub. I'll be Gold soon though {{item:3422}}
Rioter Comments
: The Current Problems with Kayn and how to Fix them
1. I'm sure it's already been said, but if not, your transformation depends on the first orb to be absorbed upon reaching 100%. Many people think it's just the last attacked champion, but orbs are not collected until after you leave combat as Kayn, and they all rush towards you at that point. What I have discovered through playing many games of him in Twisted Treeline (where there are a lot of early team fights around the 8-12 minute times), if you are in a team fight and you know this will put your orbs earned over 100%, and you attack both ranged and melee champions, position yourself nearest the Orb for the form you want, and you will be granted that form. Other than that, you can gank a ranged champ 5 times, and the 6th time gank a melee and you'll get red form. Not specifically known but a thing to note when playing Kayn. 2. While I agree that there need to be changes made, I don't think this is how to go about doing it. The fantasy of having to wait to overpower the clear winner of the fight between Kayn and Rhaast, is fun and is justified in gameplay. It incentivezes players to have to have a deeper understanding the champion, how he works, and make good macro-decisions to get the form you want and not have to wait for it. You just need one calculated dive or fight in the jungle with the right opposing champion to get the form you want. 3. Kayn doesn't have good ganks early in solo queue, yes, but if you're in a coordinated team environment, I completely disagree with this statement. As I said previously, I play a lot of Kayn in 3s and Flex 5s, and if you coordinate with your team, Kayn can have some pretty effective ganks. Biggest issue with Kayn's passive is Riot for some reason, doesn't want Kayn to get his form change before 10 minutes (one item on champions about), giving his orb value scaling more with time. I fall into a category of "aggressive" Kayn players who played him before they took away the DoT procs of his passive which I thought were very fun. Taking Deathfire Touch and Corrupting Potion provided no help to the champion late game and in team fights, but made you a monster to duel 1v1, got him his form change as early as 6 minutes if you played aggressively enough, and allowed Kayn to be played in the Mid and Top lanes rather than jungle only. If I were in the position to change Kayn's passive, I would instead change each orb to equal 3, at all times in the game, give him back the ability to gain orbs off of DoT damage, give a bonus orb or two for hitting a combo, being in a sustained fight, or getting a kill, and see how that effects his gameplay in a controlled environment. Kayn has either been very oppressive or under-powered since his release, and his forms have never been on equal footing. If we want to change that, give him a wider array of ways to play him rather than trying to funnel him into a specific playstyle.
: 0 damage to turrets, is this bannable ?
It really depends. As a jungler, I have had a few games that end with that outcome. Specifically, Evelynn games where I'm either miles and miles behind, or I'm worlds ahead of other players. With Evelynn, her entire playstyle is farm until 3, gank, farm to 6, gank, roam, gank, roam, gank. On champion.gg based against all junglers, she has an average CS score of 24.39 currently the 45th worst CSing jungler only followed by Ivern, and is in the bottom half of average jungle monsters killed at the end of the game. My point being, as an Evelynn player, if I run in and gank, and get a kill after 6 (which would be when you would push to tower and try to take it with your laner), my strengths don't lie in powerfarming the jungle, nor splitting/getting enemy objectives. Evelynn's strengths lie in waiting in the wings, and ambushing the opponent when they don't expect you coming. There have been a few (not many and never intentional) instances where I have ended the game insanely far ahead or behind with 0 damage dealt to enemy structures. I'm just more effective being used somewhere else on the map. Other champions who I can assume this may happen to as well are Taliyah, Nidalee, Elise, Shaco, and maybe Diana. Main reasons are these champions are very good at roaming and assassination or getting picks. While I am not advocating that they should deal no damage to structures, I would say about 65% of their time, their damage onto the tower (at least in the early to mid game) would be negligible and their presence would be MUCH more effective elsewhere or zoning off enemies.
: I like the Ziggs skin a lot, but I feel like the sfx for his ult feel "unfinished". When I see it, I'm not getting the feeling that the explosion is "big enough". It feels little too... empty? Is that just me?
> [{quoted}](name=Solidair3,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=LTXRdpEj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-09-11T16:57:48.592+0000) > > I like the Ziggs skin a lot, but I feel like the sfx for his ult feel "unfinished". When I see it, I'm not getting the feeling that the explosion is "big enough". It feels little too... empty? > > Is that just me? It's not just you. I made a post about it. TL;DR: These skins are AMAZING and the surprise release was equally as enjoyable, but these skins would have actually benefited from two weeks on the PBE. They're SO close to being perfect. It feels very similar to Bloodmoon Eve or Tango Eve before her skin was changed to normal. They're so close to perfect, but a lot of them feel like they are just missing the mark on a design level. I thought the exact same thing with Ziggs ult. Also, a little sad they didn't go Purple/Yellow for Kayn's Transformation colors, Yasuo windwall looks odd in the trailers. Apparently everyone is hating Sona's model, but I'm more in the camp that I think all her abilities look very uninteresting, and almost unfinished by the SFX department in the short. IDK they're perfect and just shy of perfect at the same time
Toppien (NA)
: high five rhaast!! {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} also that Kayn x Jinx.... {{sticker:sg-jinx}} and you just killed the dark star vs star guardian head canon...wtf rito {{sticker:sg-ahri-1}}
> [{quoted}](name=Toppien,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ou5K4thp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-09-11T18:12:47.890+0000) > > high five rhaast!! > > {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}} > > also that Kayn x Jinx.... > > {{sticker:sg-jinx}} > > and you just killed the dark star vs star guardian head canon...wtf rito > > {{sticker:sg-ahri-1}} Why would there be Dark Star vs Star Guardians when the Cosmic/Event Horizon heroes are the ones who are already fighting the Dark Star?
GreenLore (EUW)
: Honestly I feel like alternate colors are ok for the 2. They should just avoid giving the shadow assassin form a red color scheme or giving rhaast a blue one. So for soulhunter I'd say that it would have been ok to give rhaast the green color if the shadow assassin had a more pale color scheme as well(like for example blue,white or light grey)
> [{quoted}](name=GreenLore,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=OMGOEvhN,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-09-11T19:20:14.831+0000) > > Honestly I feel like alternate colors are ok for the 2. > > They should just avoid giving the shadow assassin form a red color scheme or giving rhaast a blue one. > > So for soulhunter I'd say that it would have been ok to give rhaast the green color if the shadow assassin had a more pale color scheme as well(like for example blue,white or light grey) You know, I've played Kayn since his release, and I never once noticed that Soulhunter Kayn is wearing red clothes until having to go back to the picture and look at it to respond to this comment. Wow, I always saw the clothing as Orange in game because the Scythe is orange and has big sweeping orange swipes when attacking and using spells.. They should update that as well. ADD IT TO THE LIST!!!
: This, I hate kayn's release skin for this reason. When you think of rhaast, you think of dark colors like blood and flesh, so you think red/brown/etc, so when i see shadow assassin without realizing kayn's form, i think base skin rhaast first. The only reason green rhaast doesn't confuse me is because there is no other green for kayn so far.
> [{quoted}](name=Tormentula,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=OMGOEvhN,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-09-11T18:56:25.530+0000) > > This, I hate kayn's release skin for this reason. When you think of rhaast, you think of dark colors like blood and flesh, so you think red/brown/etc, so when i see shadow assassin without realizing kayn's form, i think base skin rhaast first. The only reason green rhaast doesn't confuse me is because there is no other green for kayn so far. Just responding to all these at once, but that's why I say make them Yellow and Purple. They're two opposite colors, when he ganks for the first time you will be able to clearly recognize "Oh this is mainly Purple, it must be Shadow Assassin" in the half second you have to react before Kayn inevitably cuts you in two bwahaha! Jk but seriously, I love the skin and think it's great but I think making this change to purple/gold would make it clear that "This isn't default Kayn anymore," and "this is clearly a separate character from the other form"
: As much as I’d love alternative colors, people already cry about how it’s soooo hard to distinguish between the forms with his regular skin already. All of my friends complain about it.
> [{quoted}](name=VIRTU0SO,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=OMGOEvhN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-09-11T17:29:03.475+0000) > > As much as I’d love alternative colors, people already cry about how it’s soooo hard to distinguish between the forms with his regular skin already. All of my friends complain about it. I get that, but also I don't. I've literally never heard someone say they couldn't differentiate the Kayn variants. Secondly, (and I only know this because I like how the health bar stands out) a Yellow and Purple Version of the skin would help colorblind players. Kled's health in colorblind mode is yellow/purple, both of Kayn's other skins have a red or green version making him (I'm assuming) more difficult to see than other characters in the league of legends roster. If they made it purple and gold, this would help a possible oversight in Kayn's base design.
: while im going to assume this is probably for clarity issues, its doesn't explain why in soul stealer kayn- Rhaast is green and Shadow is white/red They could have easily done purple/gold. {{sticker:sg-janna}}
> [{quoted}](name=sparkle flies,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=OMGOEvhN,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-09-11T19:50:33.231+0000) > > while im going to assume this is probably for clarity issues, its doesn't explain why in soul stealer kayn- Rhaast is green and Shadow is white/red > > They could have easily done purple/gold. > > {{sticker:sg-janna}} Exactly. Worse, Soulhunter is Orange. Orange and Green are opposite colors, as are Red and Blue. Purple and Yellow are opposite colors and would help with clarity if anything
: I assume it's for the sake of clarity. Also, it's not like they look bad or anything
> [{quoted}](name=Ethereal Dreamer,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=OMGOEvhN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-09-11T17:10:07.040+0000) > > I assume it's for the sake of clarity. Also, it's not like they look bad or anything Oh absolutely I think they look gorgeous, I'm just sad because we are never going to get a purple/yellow alternative now. This was the perfect skin to do it as the colors are right there and it didn't happen. Really sucks.
Rioter Comments
DeusVult (NA)
: Tweaks to the new Odessey 2018 skins
I love the new Kayn skin, think it's well timed and looks AMAZING but so badly wish Riot made it Yellow and Purple instead of Blue and Red again. Soulhunter does Green and Orange, this skin's base (being Spawn Kayn) skin is Purple and Yellow, I wish they stuck with that all the way through. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE that Rhaast now has a giant golden crown, and SA scythe looks fucking gorgeous, but I wish they looked kept the theme of opposite colors and differentiated more from the base skin like Soulhunter did.
Shahamut (NA)
: That is a more interesting idea than I have heard, but the thing about the current lore is that without their crystal, they die... so putting it down somewhere is just a bad idea I think. It would be cool they could incorporate more of the lore into his kit- Things like ancient knowledge passed down from generations of Brackern who had used that very crystal. I think if they did another Brackern champion, a Warlock would make a lot of sense and be REALLY cool. Skarner already has (in my heart) an identity as a ruthless fighter "Limb from Limb!" and his appearance as a scorpion adds to that all the more.
> [{quoted}](name=Shahamut,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=A1I5czRs,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2018-08-29T20:54:53.552+0000) > > That is a more interesting idea than I have heard, but the thing about the current lore is that without their crystal, they die... so putting it down somewhere is just a bad idea I think. > > It would be cool they could incorporate more of the lore into his kit- Things like ancient knowledge passed down from generations of Brackern who had used that very crystal. I think if they did another Brackern champion, a Warlock would make a lot of sense and be REALLY cool. > > Skarner already has (in my heart) an identity as a ruthless fighter "Limb from Limb!" and his appearance as a scorpion adds to that all the more. Thank you, I literally just thought of it as I was sitting at my desk at work. I know when they rework champions or update their lore, things get changed around, and I think maybe they retcon Skarner just a little bit and put him right where Kayn is. Kayn's lore is still undetermined. The game lets you play out the fantasy of one character winning over the other. Maybe they retcon a little bit and instead of having that stone attached to him already as we meet him, he is in the process of trying to figure out how to attach it. Maybe once it's attached, if it is removed in the lore, he will be killed, but when we meet him in game, Skarner hasn't figured out how to attach it to himself yet, and maybe that's why he has come to SR? (I don't know much about the lore for champions that I don't play and for how they are reworking the lore of League of Legends and Summoner's Rift itself). Oh absolutely agree with you about thinking of Skarner as a fighter, I love Skarner and I only thought of that idea because if Skarner gets changed, I don't want him to have to change that much. As much as the spires suck, I really like the zone control aspect. There are so many champions that live up to the fantasy of "you get better with time," and the gameplay eventually gets you there. Kayle eventually never has to fight as a warrior and can (at some point in the game) fight only with her blazing missiles. Kayn eventually chooses a path of either the Darkin or Shadow Assassin and you feel like you gain all these powers. A lot of ADCs feel this in game by scaling up. I think Skarner is a prime candidate for this treatment as well! You pick Skarner, and your have to defend one zone instead now and you can pick it up and place it anywhere and eventually, as the game progresses, you always gain the power you have in your zone. That's how I think the design of the champion needs to go in. You want to play a man who persists through death itself dealing massive damage to your enemies? Play Tryndamere. You want to play a wild beast hunting foes endlessly from across the map and terrifying those around you? Play Warwick. You want to play as a happy-go-lucky boy and his dog having snowball fights and playing in the snow? I direct your attention to the new Nunu rework just released. Want to be the incarnation of evil and annoy your opponents from the game translating that annoyance and frustration to their real life selves? You have Teemo. My point is, League of Legends and Riot Games have been doing a wonderful job of truly marrying gameplay and fantasy/lore/feel, and Skarner is one of the lost champions who has not yet felt like that marriage has paid off. You have these areas of being powerful and strong, but what creature wouldn't want to take and use the strength they are granted and put it towards completing their goals? In addition to there only being one stone Skarner draws his power from so the spires are useless in a lore standpoint, there should be some way for Skarner to take this strength with him so he may help his allies at his fullest potential. I don't know I'm just rambling at this point, hopefully I made some interesting points and when Riot decides to look at Skarner, they will look to this thread and see all the people who think Skarner should be more of a duelist than peel bot for carries.
Shahamut (NA)
: My thoughts on Skarner's Spires [Long Post]
I agree completely with the statements made here, as a player who picked up Skarner before this season (when me reasoning to picking him up was "I've played this game for a year and have not seen this champion in a single game," not when he became extremely popular thanks to Pre-nerf Unsealed Spellbook), I too have disliked his spire passive and chained to a single role nature. I read both this post, and the post you linked in the above thread and thought that the ideas were very good. As I was reading, I did have a thought though that we may have overlooked, allowing to both keep the spires and tie more into his lore. What if Skarner became the "Warlock" character the community has been asking about for years? Reading it sounds silly, but here me out for a second. As you said OP, there's only one life stone that Skarner draws his power from and that's the one affixed to his tail. Let's get rid of all the spires and give Skarner a starting active item, his "Life Stone". Make it an active item that gives no stats and is placeable like a ward and when placed, it gives Skarner the zone he gets from his spires now. It takes the item take 3 seconds to channel and pick up off the ground, and if Skarner dies while the item is on the ground, it remains there. Teammates can pick it up and drop it, but enemies cannot. Once Skarner reached X level/monsters/minions killed (kind of like Kayn passive with damage to champions), he gains enough life essence and may choose to absorb the Life Stone permanently granting him permanent effects the spire grants (maybe not to the effect of the live spires but you get the idea). Doing this would give Skarner the ability to choose his zones in the early game, still allow for the zone to be a contestable objective for teammates and enemies, and late game, allows him to not be crippled when outside of his zones. Skarner would be able to be more easily balanced, as his power budget would no longer be dependent on the fact of "Well if he's in his zone, this could push him too far". The balance team could look at him and say "okay, here's a champion who scales into late game," and Skarner would then be balanced along the same lines as champions like Kayn, Gnar, Elise, and Nidalee. He will no longer be balanced as a champion who is situationally strong, but rather a champion who has "two forms" per se and they tune each form individually. Just a random thought I had while sitting at my desk at work reading though the boards, wishing for the true potential of Skarner to shine! LittleOak ^-^ _"We await our time.."_
: Is it bad to dodge an obviously-trolled game?
As a jungler, this season I have gone into ranked 3 times without smite (after having a game mid on my off-role -- which let's thank Riot because since Riot fixed how the position select works 90% of my games are my main role and I haven't had a single auto-fill game this season in any queue (300+ games); helps that I queue with a support main I'm sure). All 3 games I played without smite in ranked, we ended up winning. Granted this was Bronze ELO in S/D and MemeQue but it ends up working if you have a jungler who knows how to play the game. I lucked out and had picked tank champions for those games (Sej Nunu, and Rammus I believe) and went top lane to soak levels with Relic/Targons until like level 4, keeping my laner alive and providing support until I was high enough level to not die to jungle camps and still keep up with CS as the opposing jungler and just played like a second support for my team. I don't know how it would have played out if I had been a carry champion like a Graves, Evelynn or Kayn but I probably would have tried to play more focused on ganking and securing kills so I can get the early EXP and keep up with the enemy jungler.
: really? because i've counted 4 abilities in the video - which means one of those is probably a passive that is not really a passive, but a 4th ability - already a trade mark of overloaded power. 2nd he has a mini kled ult as a snowball which makes him run and gives him snobwall the size of a lane which stuns and probably deals massive damage His devour is still gonna be annoying to junglers and it looks like he can chomp champions now too! wtf? and he has an AoE auto targetting slow that damages enemies and also stuns them! See? i can make anything look overloaded and toxic if i word it right, how about you wait for his kit to actually come out without praising him only because a developer you didnt like didnt develop him? How arrogant can you be to say shit like this? > I haven't even seen Nunu's ability descriptions yet but I can tell they aren't going to be insane. when we all know these champions reveals and PBE periods tell us NOTHING about actual balance? Tl:dr - just a generic CT hate thread
> [{quoted}](name=JackMcSnipeyz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z5Zv8gq8,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-08-13T19:53:01.946+0000) > > really? because i've counted 4 abilities in the video - > which means one of those is probably a passive that is not really a passive, but a 4th ability - already a trade mark of overloaded power. > 2nd he has a mini kled ult as a snowball which makes him run and gives him snobwall the size of a lane which stuns and probably deals massive damage > His devour is still gonna be annoying to junglers and it looks like he can chomp champions now too! wtf? > and he has an AoE auto targetting slow that damages enemies and also stuns them! > > See? i can make anything look overloaded and toxic if i word it right, how about you wait for his kit to actually come out without praising him only because a developer you didnt like didnt develop him? > > How arrogant can you be to say shit like this? > > when we all know these champions reveals and PBE periods tell us NOTHING about actual balance? > > Tl:dr - just a generic CT hate thread Firstly I specifically made this not a CT hate thread. I was simply praising the fact that whoever designed Nunu did a fantastic job at keeping the champion true to his roots and thematic and said I hope more champion reworks happen like this. I think that is a significantly more valuable way to update champions. If any CT hate was intended, trust me, I would have much more to say about it. Secondly, if you watch Swain, Irelia, or Galio's Teaser Trailer, they both looked like they had 4 abilities and both ended up being passives (Swain's pull, Irelia's golden swords and attack speed, and Galio's empowered strike). One of those will probably be a passive ability, I'm guessing the Blood Boil he seems to grant Ashe. Thirdly, watching the video, the snowball travels half the map, moves relatively slowly, and not once stuns anyone on the opposing team (watch Lissandra second time it's shown), it is more comparable to Aurelion Sol Q than Kled R; Nunu doesn't seem to gain any more speed or move ~much~ faster than normal (looks like he gains MS from waterwalking specifically). Fourthly, his devour gives him his niche. It's part of the reason I liked to use Nunu. I can secure objectives and steal things from other junglers and not have it be a 50/50 plus dying for it. It's a help. As well as it gives tank Nunu a way to actually fight and not rely on a single ability in a fight. Fifthly, I don't think his AoE auto targets, there's clear time between him using snowballs on Elise and then swapping to Trundle then swapping back to Elise. He swapped targeted champion to slow both and get them in range of the burst that stuns (which is a short stun, maybe a second in the trailer, you can watch the ice at Trundle's feet melt before the bite hits). I'm glad you have your opinion, that's what makes us all human, I am sorry you've misinterpreted my feelings and intentions with writing this post, I hope you now see where I am coming from. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
Glîtchy (NA)
: upvoted solely because of title, now I want to upvote again because the text within the post. EDIT: the definitely need to keep doing more reworks like Nunu, I mean over all the reworks I've seen {{champion:20}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:41}} and {{champion:83}} all kept their original identities because they maintained each of their iconic pieces in their kits, Yorick kept his ghouls, Evelynn kept her succubus like appearance/approach and definitely lives up to it now, Gangplank kept his orange loving, global ulting ways, WW now feels more like a wolf, and Nunu has the more childlike carefree/fun loving demeanor now, while champs who feel like they've been removed completely and replaced are {{champion:84}} {{champion:266}} and {{champion:6}} tho let's face it no one would've cared if they removed urgot instead of reworked him.
> [{quoted}](name=Glîtchy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z5Zv8gq8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-13T18:06:26.441+0000) > > upvoted solely because of title, now I want to upvote again because the text within the post. > > EDIT: the definitely need to keep doing more reworks like Nunu, I mean over all the reworks I've seen > > {{champion:20}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:28}} {{champion:41}} and {{champion:83}} all kept their original identities because they maintained each of their iconic pieces in their kits, Yorick kept his ghouls, Evelynn kept her succubus like appearance/approach and definitely lives up to it now, Gangplank kept his orange loving, barrel tossing ways, WW now feels more like a wolf, and Nunu has the more childlike carefree/fun loving demeanor now, while champs who feel like they've been removed completely and replaced are {{champion:84}} {{champion:266}} and {{champion:6}} tho let's face it no one would've cared if they removed urgot instead of reworked him. Thank you, put a lot of time into writing and thinking of this post xD
: In defense of CertainlyT, he remade Warwick, often heralded as one of the most true and successful VGUs of late. In terms of Akali, her kit prior to the new was pretty bland, and chucking a kama and doing a blade spin while dashing everywhere basically made her Katarina with an invisibility shroud, so just keeping her shroud and scrapping the rest really gave her her own true identity. I don't knock him for updating Akali. He did a really good job with her. He added that horrible "obscuring" in her shroud that I feel is too powerful for the game, but aside from that, Akali is well designed for the most part.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z5Zv8gq8,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-13T18:01:47.433+0000) > > In defense of CertainlyT, he remade Warwick, often heralded as one of the most true and successful VGUs of late. > In terms of Akali, her kit prior to the new was pretty bland, and chucking a kama and doing a blade spin while dashing everywhere basically made her Katarina with an invisibility shroud, so just keeping her shroud and scrapping the rest really gave her her own true identity. I don't knock him for updating Akali. He did a really good job with her. He added that horrible "obscuring" in her shroud that I feel is too powerful for the game, but aside from that, Akali is well designed for the most part. I was unaware he was the person who updated Warwick, I checked his page on the wiki many times before this and that was unlisted, and I only saw his other.. works. I will agree Warwick was an excellent update. Also, as I said, This isn't a CertainlyT hate thread, I love Warwick. But that champion is 2 years old now, and he hasn't made any effort to recreate that in new champions or reworks I have seen since then. Not like they have with several other reworks. As for Akali, yes, she was bland, but I think you just said it in your own words, they just remade her as Katarina with an invisibility shroud. She doesn't play like she used to. I don't know, I just feel like they reskinned a cool new champion as Akali and let down Akali players and the league community from giving us a potentially really fun character who was forced into Akali/Katarina's playstyle.
Atlªs (NA)
: I was playing Fiora vs Tahm so if your only suggestion is avoid him applying his passive I really don’t know what you want me to do.
> [{quoted}](name=NodirjonSattarov,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6yPqyHuY,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-13T17:55:27.087+0000) > > I was playing Fiora vs Tahm so if your only suggestion is avoid him applying his passive I really don’t know what you want me to do. I never said avoid him applying his passive, that's conceivably impossible where 3/3 offensive interactions he has proc his passive. If you read exactly what I wrote, I said "you should never be close enough to [Tahm] long enough to where [he] can auto you to max stacks, [without using his Q or W]." If you are, you are taking a VERY bad trade. His Q cooldown is 12 seconds early and his W is 16. If you play around those two abilities, you should have no problem facing him as a Fiora. Fiora should stomp Tahm in all circumstances the way he is now. It's just understanding his trading pattern and waiting for him to use an ability or miss something on you. Then you punish. Simple math.
Rioter Comments
Atlªs (NA)
: I think it's really dumb that Tahm can cast Q and W concurrently; max passive needs to reset
Yeah, as a Tahm player, you should never be close enough to me, long enough to where I can auto you to max stacks, Q you and eat you. That's 3 autos, plus Q plus W. Levels 2-7 that's like 5 seconds of being in melee with Tahm that he needs to be able to get full stacks on you and then stun and eat you. If he is getting stacks faster, that's because he spit W at you or Q'd early, which you should realize is his reliable stun on you, which is when you should then go in and fight him. You don't run around scared of a stun incoming when the stun ability is on a 10-20 second CD. Poke him out, kite out his autos, take fights after he throws W or Q at you. Tahm's unpowered at the moment, if you're dying to one that isn't something absolutely ridiculous like ROA, Nashor's Tooth build, you're playing the match up incorrectly. As an edited, extension to this comment, other than Thresh who disarms himself with his Q hook, there isn't a single champion in the game that I can think of that punishes the player that severely, for hitting a skill shot. Tahm's biggest counter is he needs to get in close to put stacks on his enemy. The change you have suggested would make him the worst champion in the game, flat out by a country mile. He would be the Magikarp of League of Legends and as it is now, with his current strength, he isn't that far off anyways.
Junkο (EUNE)
: Yasuo's ult isn't a displacement, it's a knockup. Anivia, Braum, Camille, Cho, Ivern, Janna, Jarvan, Kalista, Kayn, Malphite, Maokai, Nami, Ornn, Quinn, Rek'sai, Riven, Seju, Sion, Trundle, Wukong and Zyra cannot displace either.
> [{quoted}](name=Misanthrope,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BI25RA5F,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-08-10T21:36:17.448+0000) > > Yasuo's ult isn't a displacement, it's a knockup. Anivia, Braum, Camille, Cho, Ivern, Janna, Jarvan, Kalista, Kayn, Malphite, Maokai, Nami, Ornn, Quinn, Rek'sai, Riven, Seju, Sion, Trundle, Wukong and Zyra cannot displace either. Yes they can. Anivia wall, Braum ult, Camille E, Cho Q, Ivern Daisy 3rd auto, Janna ult and Q, Jarvan e>q or ult, Kalista ult, Kayn Rhaast W, MAlphite ult (maybe more, I've never played him and rarely play against him), Maokai Q, Nami bubble, Ornn brittle auto, q, q>e, e, ult, Quinn E (pretty sure), Reksai unburrow, Riven q3, Sej E, Sion q/r, Trundle E, Wukong ult, and Zyra ult are all knock-ups or knock-backs which cause enemies to go airborne, allowing Yasuo the ability to proc his ultimate off them. It's also why Kai'Sa's ultimate and passive was so good on release because any form of hard crown control gave you passive stacks and you had synergy with 85% of the champions in the game and do their whole health bar in no more than 4 autos because of the max HP damage her passive granted. What he is saying is that you can proc it off any displacement there is. Looking at that list he provided, I still don't think that's all of them but it probably is..
: I don't think that that idea flies, because the "living being who fights the evil of the Isles" belongs to Maokai and Yorick. I don't think we need a colorful mage copying their prime directives. Also, while I understand that Pyke is from the Isles, there's also been both Aatrox and Akali between him. Given that VGUs and new champions are all handled by the same department, I don't think they're specifically queuing new champions together and VGUs together - after all, we got Akali and Irelia pretty close to each other in terms of VGUs, only separated by the minor VGU, Aatrox. In the scope of that department's work, there's been Pyke, then Aatrox, and then Akali, so there's been stuff in between that puts enough distance between Pyke and this new champion. Plus, if you want to get down to it, there's not a whole lot of Bilgewater champions, at least not compared to Ionia, Demacia, Noxus, Shurima, or the Shadow Isles. Even then, there's not a single, lighthearted Bilgewater champion, unless you count Fizz (but he's the devil), and that sigil looks distinctly tribal islander, and the tropical flower also points to that region.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=GEONijUU,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-08-10T18:30:12.322+0000) > > I don't think that that idea flies, because the "living being who fights the evil of the Isles" belongs to Maokai and Yorick. I don't think we need a colorful mage copying their prime directives. > > Also, while I understand that Pyke is from the Isles, there's also been both Aatrox and Akali between him. Given that VGUs and new champions are all handled by the same department, I don't think they're specifically queuing new champions together and VGUs together - after all, we got Akali and Irelia pretty close to each other in terms of VGUs, only separated by the minor VGU, Aatrox. In the scope of that department's work, there's been Pyke, then Aatrox, and then Akali, so there's been stuff in between that puts enough distance between Pyke and this new champion. Plus, if you want to get down to it, there's not a whole lot of Bilgewater champions, at least not compared to Ionia, Demacia, Noxus, Shurima, or the Shadow Isles. Even then, there's not a single, lighthearted Bilgewater champion, unless you count Fizz (but he's the devil), and that sigil looks distinctly tribal islander, and the tropical flower also points to that region. I agree with you on the front that Bilgewater needs more new characters, and that there are not many light-hearted champions from there, you can say the exact same thing about the shadow isles. On top of that, Riot released the map of Runeterra. With all the images of that, plus all the other Bilgewater stuff we just got in the lore/faction update with Pyke, the "nation" (not huge into following the lore/what to call things) of Bilgewater as a whole doesn't look like a place able to produce such delicate flowers as the one shown in the image. In terms of stepping on the toes of Yorick and Maokai, I think that's a totally different story. Maokai and Yorick if I'm not mistaken want to return the Shadow Isles to their former glory. > Once a peaceful nature spirit, Maokai now furiously battles to banish the scourge of unlife from the Shadow Isles and restore his home to its former beauty. Maokai wants to fight back the dead to restore the Isles to the natural beauty they once held. > Trapped on the Shadow Isles, his only companions are the rotting corpses and shrieking spirits that he gathers to him... [Yorick's] noble purpose: to free his home from the curse of the Ruination. In the same vein, Yorick wants to fight back the undeath from the land and save what hi shome once was. This new champion from what I explained would have no holdings to the Isles themselves. Rather than a story of restoration or bringing back what was lost, his would be a story of losing one's way, survival, and hope to escape. As for the Bilgewater argument, there's no true way to tell, but I thought a while back, whoever was in charge of new champion development, said specifically that they tried to spread out as much as possible in terms of where the champions are from but not specifically in terms of reworks/VGUs. That's why Warwick and Urgot came out back to back with Camille in between, because they couldn't put out an update to Zaun or Piltover and have the other one receive no touch up. Same with Irelia and Akali, two reworks, meant to further the lore by extending the narrative of the champions. They've been on a path of double rework (Zaun, with Warwick Urgot), stand alone (Demacia, Galio), double rework (Ionia, Irelia and Akali), stand alone (Noxus, Swain), with new champions filling in the holes, slowly going through all the factions. The last Shadow Isles champion that was touched was Yorick, almost two years ago now, and the lore community was super upset because they added like 3 lines to the Shadow Isles lore page with his release. I'm just theorizing here but I still will stand by the fact that, the new champion teams have made a blatant effort to not release back to back champions from the same place (barring Xayah and Rakan) in the 3 years since I've started playing this game.
: The Hidden, Colorful New Mage - Theories?
I like the ideas but where we ~just~ got Pyke as the latest new champion, they're not going to give us double Bilgewater back to back. I'm pretty sure they're never done that in any release before, or if they have, it's only been Ionia (because like half the champion roster is from Ionia or has something to do with it. Personally, the flowers remind me of something out of a Karma splash art, leading me to believe this will be an Ionian champion, but I would also really like to see the team's take on this champion being for The Shadow Isles! If the champion is based off a chameleon, I think it would be a fun and fitting story to have them be happy and whimsical from the shadow isles, beating back the darkness as a one man army, and hiding when outnumbered/outmatched. All of the shadow isles are specifically brooding champions or harbingers of undeath, and I think having this "odd one out" character would be a good fit. It brings to mind Ornn being a Freljordian demi-god. When they first revealed "the next new champion is going to be a different take on the Freljord" everyone was SUPER intrigued and was wondering what could possibly be on the horizon, and they revealed Ornn and even though he was terrible gameplay-wise, he gained a HUGE group of fans in the community immediately. The fire guy from the land of ice was super fun and interesting and I think playing as "the upbeat happy-go-lucky mage from the land of sorrow and death" would be JUST as fun to play. With my fingers crossed, I will toss my hope for the lore into the ring. The champion is an Ionian mage who, while traveling to Targon (maybe, based on map and trajectory), sailed too far out around Bilgewater and got caught in the mist of the Shadow Isles. Some plot later about how he got shipwrecked, he now skirts around the Shadow Isles, fighting back the army of the dead, while still keeping his head up as a survivalist mage, avoiding certain confrontations and trying to find a way to eventually sail away from the Shadow Isles. Maybe has a relationship to Karma, Irelia, or Ivern maybe, while also having lines ingame towards/agaisnt Kalista, Yorick, Thresh, Mordekaiser, and Karthus.
: ARE YOU KIDDING ME RIOT
Should have been permabanned. If I were Tantrum, after reading this I would have gone in and manually changed it to permaban. Players like you are the reason the league community is seen as so toxic from the outside. If it didn't have players like you I would have started playing this game years before I did.
: > [{quoted}](name=IRight ArmI,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=raxXXAI2,comment-id=00050000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-18T20:37:18.240+0000) > > Not being a bitch is not being a pussy boards honor 5 that exposes their belly to anyone that judges them so they can get their thread upvoted. Didn't I just tell you to go outside? That ball will not kick itself
> [{quoted}](name=AnAggravatedPimp,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=raxXXAI2,comment-id=000500000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-18T20:43:04.770+0000) > > Didn't I just tell you to go outside? That ball will not kick itself xD
: Hecarim game I got bad score. Shen game voli and I got bad score. You only looked at what you wanted to see.
> [{quoted}](name=IRight ArmI,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=raxXXAI2,comment-id=00000001000000010001000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-18T20:31:59.463+0000) > > Hecarim game I got bad score. Shen game voli and I got bad score. You only looked at what you wanted to see. Bud, I looked through all your matches over the last 20 games, same as everyone else who said they did. 0/7 Hecarim game imo isn't bannable. Clearly, I wasn't in the game, but I've played bad games as well every now and then. It happens. You had 7 deaths and contributed to 33% of the enemy team's kills. That's not terrible in a 5 person game. In the Shen game, you had 19 deaths, contributing to a 58% enemy team's total kills. In a 5 person game, this is an extreme. All your other games are fine, and people have off days. It's okay. Honestly, if I were to give you my honest opinion: your only issue is you don't know how to build on champions you don't play and if/when you get behind on them, you stop building correctly, and just build crit which isn't a viable strategy. I don't understand why you're trying to prove you had a bad game with Hecarim too when I am saying your only reportable game is the Shen one.. O_o
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=IRight ArmI,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=raxXXAI2,comment-id=000000010000000100010000,timestamp=2018-07-18T20:24:47.728+0000) > > This is what I'm talking about. The boards is built around bias. No matter what I tell you your puny mind is made up. I looked at your op.gg ; I think that's the only game you inted man. I don't have a bias, I felt bad for you until I read that comment. Thank you for commenting on my puny mind. I appreciated it. Enjoy your ban.
: Shen looks like trynd I thought he could build those items.
> [{quoted}](name=IRight ArmI,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=raxXXAI2,comment-id=0000000100000001,timestamp=2018-07-18T19:49:44.955+0000) > > Shen looks like trynd I thought he could build those items. This response just made my eyeballs bleed. You've been playing since season 5 man. I've played for less time and I know that's the most absurd excuse you could have given. There are plenty of sites that would tell you how to properly build on a champion other than a FrostPrime video from 2014.
Auve (NA)
: Heya Meddler! My IGN is [Auve](http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=auve) and as of this comment I have almost 2500 normals played in 3v3 and over 1000 3v3 Ranked games over the seasons stretching back to Season 3. More than just being a fun map for me, it's sort of become the main way I enjoy League of Legends these days. The small, quick fights early on in the game remind me of old RPG games I played when I was much younger. Contrary to what I see a lot of people commenting, I actually prefer TT because of more interactions both with lane opponents and with the enemy team earlier on in the game. I also write guides for TT and help to organize a Tier List for newer players coming to learn about the map (which can be found [here](http://3v3.gg/) ). And yes, I play support meta and I would like to stand **opposed** to the SR funneling changes being introduced to TT. In my view, these changes would not remove support meta from 3's but would cause it to mutate into something else that is far more passive but nonetheless just as strong - ignoring the early purchase of jungle items. This isn't an option in 5's where jungle items are exceedingly important in clearing the jungle, but they aren't necessary with lane/camps so close together in TT. The fundamental issue of funneling can be addressed in 5's, but it fails to apply the same way in 3's because the map is so small. Funneling is a natural response to having so much gold/experience in close proximity to the lanes. The following are my contentions in the defense of support meta as it exists currently: 1. **Interactivity** - Contrary to popular belief, the interactivity of Support Meta is gravely misunderstood. Jungle Meta teams frequently find themselves playing against a passive Support Meta team. Rather than taking the initiative to make proactive invades to shut down the gold resources of the enemy Support Meta, the Jungle Meta team becomes frustrated that _the other team isn't interested in fighting them._ But how strange! If there is a kill lane in Summoner's Rift like Darius/Jarvan, why would the Adc + Support in bot lane try to fight them? Wouldn't you expect the ADC to farm slowly until they are able to win that fight? It's the exact same way in TT - Jungle Meta teams naturally have an early advantage because both the top and jungle have access to gold and experience. The problem isn't with Jungle vs. Support meta here, it's actually in Pressure vs. Scaling. You see this exact same interaction in Support Meta vs. Support Meta! A Support Meta team with aggressive picks like Renekton/Leona is going to have to be very proactive in invading a comp such as Yi/Taric. One team dramatically outscales the other - it's only common sense that you will need to use your early advantage to shut down their scaling. Games where this is understood tend to be very interactive with one team invading the enemy jungle and the other defending every jungle camp they can. 2. **Evolving Opinions** - last year when I began learning how to play Support Meta, the community in NA was almost entirely against it. Getting flamed in all chat during each game was common - even from your own teammates (not unlike how playing funneling meta in SR was this year). However, as understanding of the map has evolved and more and more players have found guides or discord channels to ask their questions, the opinion on the meta among TT players is shifting. When people learn how to play the meta and understand its strengths/weaknesses, they see how the macro strategy and lane interactions are different than Jungle Meta but nonetheless skillful. I help to run a discord channel focused on 3v3, and we have a fairly large base of players who are constantly asking questions about how to play as/against support meta. We help people find groups to play with, give them build order for very specific sets of hypercarry champions, and provide education for how to integrate this meta into the Twisted Treeline. 3. **The Jungle Meta Problem** - nevertheless, I cannot ignore the elephant in the room. Even taking into account strong Jungle Meta players who understand Support Meta and how to counter it, there is an advantage in favor of Support Meta. In Challenger TT across all regions, Jungle Meta is woefully under represented. I believe this is because of a lack of early objectives for Jungle Meta to take advantage of. While Support Meta gets to rotate between camps and top lane, TT Junglers only have 3 quick camps to clear and a lot of downtime. Ideally they would be able to keep up invades against Support Meta teams, but the reality is that even if the Jungle team get multiple aces the Support team loses so little and will continue to scale. I realize that devoting resources to add more camps or a monster buff would be too much for Riot at this time. So I have some suggestions that would **increase** Jungle Meta's early objective strength while being fairly low resource changes. . -**Add First Turret Gold** - This is very needed, since good Jungle Meta teams frequently get the first turret against Support Meta. This would reward them a little bit for doing that. I don't believe there is much danger of this buffing Support Meta since they take much longer to come online than Jungle Meta. Likewise, I don't think this makes the quality of Jungle v. Jungle worse, since that matchup is largely snowball based anyways. . -**Increase Early Death Timers** - one of the defenses Support Meta has at its disposal are very quick early death timers. They can be faster than recalling in some instances. This definitely needs to change - Junglers should be rewarded by clearing the enemy jungle after an ace, not barely starting one camp before the enemy hyper is back alive. . -**Reduce Vile'maw Spawn Timer** - giving a 3 man Jungle team the opportunity to clear Vile'maw earlier in the game following an ace would help them open up the map and give them an easier path to victory. Vile'maw has stats that scale down with game-time and a somewhat complicated "Boss Fight" that, when mastered, would allow teams as early as after their first item to clear him with no problem (I think 5:00 would be an acceptable spawn for him rather than 10:00). . Notice that all of these changes give initiative to the Jungle Meta team and reward early fighting / proactivity. I think these are the types of changes that should be added to balance Jungle v. Support, rather than a heavy handed band-aid solution created for 5v5. 4. **Heavy Handed Band-Aid Solution** - probably the most common response I saw in discord when our community learned that the Funneling Changes might be implemented for 3's was that it wouldn't address the problem and it didn't feel like it was for **us**. It wasn't a 3v3 change, it was a 5v5 one that would be slapped on without consideration of how Funneling works differently on each map. I'm happy to see Meddler polling _our_ community rather than the voices of 5v5 against Funneling, but also consider that a different map might require different types of changes. At the very least, wait until Pre-Season to implement changes against Support Meta. Our ranked system has existed with this meta for years and suddenly changing it now so close to the end of the season would heavily undermine all of the work and theory-crafting dedicated by our already small, fragile population. In conclusion, Support Meta is frequently misunderstood in 3's. People are learning overtime how to play with/against it - both of which leads to games with higher interactivity. Yes, Jungle Meta needs some help, but I think there are better solutions available that don't just copy-paste an idea from 5's. Changing Funneling in 5's so quickly makes sense since it hasn't existed in the meta for years - but it has in 3's. Our season is nearly at an end, and it wouldn't make sense to dramatically change the way our map is played with only a quarter of the season left. I hope this reaches you well, Auve
> [{quoted}](name=Auve,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=PvrpURlA,comment-id=004f,timestamp=2018-07-18T17:12:20.086+0000) > > Heya Meddler! My IGN is [Auve](http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=auve) and as of this comment I have almost 2500 normals played in 3v3 and over 1000 3v3 Ranked games over the seasons stretching back to Season 3. More than just being a fun map for me, it's sort of become the main way I enjoy League of Legends these days. The small, quick fights early on in the game remind me of old RPG games I played when I was much younger. Contrary to what I see a lot of people commenting, I actually prefer TT because of more interactions both with lane opponents and with the enemy team earlier on in the game. I also write guides for TT and help to organize a Tier List for newer players coming to learn about the map (which can be found [here](http://3v3.gg/) ). > > And yes, I play support meta and I would like to stand **opposed** to the SR funneling changes being introduced to TT. In my view, these changes would not remove support meta from 3's but would cause it to mutate into something else that is far more passive but nonetheless just as strong - ignoring the early purchase of jungle items. This isn't an option in 5's where jungle items are exceedingly important in clearing the jungle, but they aren't necessary with lane/camps so close together in TT. The fundamental issue of funneling can be addressed in 5's, but it fails to apply the same way in 3's because the map is so small. Funneling is a natural response to having so much gold/experience in close proximity to the lanes. > > The following are my contentions in the defense of support meta as it exists currently: > > 1. **Interactivity** - Contrary to popular belief, the interactivity of Support Meta is gravely misunderstood. Jungle Meta teams frequently find themselves playing against a passive Support Meta team. Rather than taking the initiative to make proactive invades to shut down the gold resources of the enemy Support Meta, the Jungle Meta team becomes frustrated that _the other team isn't interested in fighting them._ But how strange! If there is a kill lane in Summoner's Rift like Darius/Jarvan, why would the Adc + Support in bot lane try to fight them? Wouldn't you expect the ADC to farm slowly until they are able to win that fight? It's the exact same way in TT - Jungle Meta teams naturally have an early advantage because both the top and jungle have access to gold and experience. The problem isn't with Jungle vs. Support meta here, it's actually in Pressure vs. Scaling. You see this exact same interaction in Support Meta vs. Support Meta! A Support Meta team with aggressive picks like Renekton/Leona is going to have to be very proactive in invading a comp such as Yi/Taric. One team dramatically outscales the other - it's only common sense that you will need to use your early advantage to shut down their scaling. Games where this is understood tend to be very interactive with one team invading the enemy jungle and the other defending every jungle camp they can. > > 2. **Evolving Opinions** - last year when I began learning how to play Support Meta, the community in NA was almost entirely against it. Getting flamed in all chat during each game was common - even from your own teammates (not unlike how playing funneling meta in SR was this year). However, as understanding of the map has evolved and more and more players have found guides or discord channels to ask their questions, the opinion on the meta among TT players is shifting. When people learn how to play the meta and understand its strengths/weaknesses, they see how the macro strategy and lane interactions are different than Jungle Meta but nonetheless skillful. I help to run a discord channel focused on 3v3, and we have a fairly large base of players who are constantly asking questions about how to play as/against support meta. We help people find groups to play with, give them build order for very specific sets of hypercarry champions, and provide education for how to integrate this meta into the Twisted Treeline. > > 3. **The Jungle Meta Problem** - nevertheless, I cannot ignore the elephant in the room. Even taking into account strong Jungle Meta players who understand Support Meta and how to counter it, there is an advantage in favor of Support Meta. In Challenger TT across all regions, Jungle Meta is woefully under represented. I believe this is because of a lack of early objectives for Jungle Meta to take advantage of. While Support Meta gets to rotate between camps and top lane, TT Junglers only have 3 quick camps to clear and a lot of downtime. Ideally they would be able to keep up invades against Support Meta teams, but the reality is that even if the Jungle team get multiple aces the Support team loses so little and will continue to scale. I realize that devoting resources to add more camps or a monster buff would be too much for Riot at this time. So I have some suggestions that would **increase** Jungle Meta's early objective strength while being fairly low resource changes. > . > -**Add First Turret Gold** - This is very needed, since good Jungle Meta teams frequently get the first turret against Support Meta. This would reward them a little bit for doing that. I don't believe there is much danger of this buffing Support Meta since they take much longer to come online than Jungle Meta. Likewise, I don't think this makes the quality of Jungle v. Jungle worse, since that matchup is largely snowball based anyways. > . > -**Increase Early Death Timers** - one of the defenses Support Meta has at its disposal are very quick early death timers. They can be faster than recalling in some instances. This definitely needs to change - Junglers should be rewarded by clearing the enemy jungle after an ace, not barely starting one camp before the enemy hyper is back alive. > . > -**Reduce Vile'maw Spawn Timer** - giving a 3 man Jungle team the opportunity to clear Vile'maw earlier in the game following an ace would help them open up the map and give them an easier path to victory. Vile'maw has stats that scale down with game-time and a somewhat complicated "Boss Fight" that, when mastered, would allow teams as early as after their first item to clear him with no problem (I think 5:00 would be an acceptable spawn for him rather than 10:00). > . > Notice that all of these changes give initiative to the Jungle Meta team and reward early fighting / proactivity. I think these are the types of changes that should be added to balance Jungle v. Support, rather than a heavy handed band-aid solution created for 5v5. > > 4. **Heavy Handed Band-Aid Solution** - probably the most common response I saw in discord when our community learned that the Funneling Changes might be implemented for 3's was that it wouldn't address the problem and it didn't feel like it was for **us**. It wasn't a 3v3 change, it was a 5v5 one that would be slapped on without consideration of how Funneling works differently on each map. I'm happy to see Meddler polling _our_ community rather than the voices of 5v5 against Funneling, but also consider that a different map might require different types of changes. At the very least, wait until Pre-Season to implement changes against Support Meta. Our ranked system has existed with this meta for years and suddenly changing it now so close to the end of the season would heavily undermine all of the work and theory-crafting dedicated by our already small, fragile population. > > In conclusion, Support Meta is frequently misunderstood in 3's. People are learning overtime how to play with/against it - both of which leads to games with higher interactivity. Yes, Jungle Meta needs some help, but I think there are better solutions available that don't just copy-paste an idea from 5's. Changing Funneling in 5's so quickly makes sense since it hasn't existed in the meta for years - but it has in 3's. Our season is nearly at an end, and it wouldn't make sense to dramatically change the way our map is played with only a quarter of the season left. > > I hope this reaches you well, > > Auve Beautifully written, would watch stream if linked ^-^
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 18
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=littleoak Addressing the Twisted Treeline meta. I play 3s and enjoy 3s more than Summoner's Rift personally. The only reason I haven't played as much 3s this season is specifically because of the announcement of Clash. In terms of funneling on Twisted Treeline, I believe it should remain. It keeps the game mode fresh, and teams now have options of how they want to play the game mode. Personally I queue with 2 other players and play 3s with them all the time and we all have different primary and secondary roles so we can switch position every game if we wanted to. Every 3s game feels new and fresh unlike SR which feels very monotonous (especially since pre-season changes have gone through - from the perspective of a Bronze jungle main who plays carry champions, but still gets ultimate after the bot lane if I decide to skip farming to gank and don't get a kill out of it). Taking away funneling on 3s, would lead to support meta falling away and 3s gaining the same level of monotony. Season 8 has input a handful of changes prior to this possibility to make 3s a much less enjoyable experience to me in my opinion. In this meta where tanks are already weak, one strategy I found (in low ELO at least), if our team is opting for Jungle Meta, into a support comp, is to build a support item (Face of the Mountain) on tanky junglers. Since the enemy team is funneling gold onto one of it's champions, our team could still keep up (not to the same level but enough to have a fighting chance) with the gold differential a little easier by spreading 3-4 minions worth of gold between 2 people every X minutes. Making jungle items and support items mutually exclusive in Twisted Treeline made this match up exponentially more difficult from the side of the Jungle meta team. It also neuters the unique support type jungler that was previously present on Twisted Treeline such as Ornn, Galio, Malphite, and Sejuani. Thankfully Sej and Mao are still reliable supports in 3s so they still see some play. In terms of other changes, power creep in the game has pushed a lot of DoT mages out of effective levels of play. Malz, Cassiopeia, and Mordekaiser used to be very good on this map, but the abundance of just straight out damage has made them poor to play with. Having only played League for 2.5 years, my main thought when it comes to a DoT mage is Either Brand or Cassiopeia, and Brand is dominating in 3s currently because power creep has made him a burst champion somehow. As someone who plays 3s because it incorporates all but a few champions as being playable, I think it is truly the most fun mode in league of legends. Do not get rid of funnelling. It is a viable strategy in 3s and allows for the mode to be as diverse as it is. Yes there are champions who are OP on 3s for long stretches of time, but the same thing goes for SR. The fact that 3s has 5-10 different team comps you can opt for makes the game exponentially more fun in my opinion and getting rid of funneling support meta would seriously hurt that.
Janakin (EUNE)
: Ok I am done playing marksmen
I mean you do run into him while he has his Crimson Rush ready and waiting for you. He just pops you with his E which does a ton of damage as it is. Then his Q does percent missing health bonus damage so you're kind of playing against the Vlad terribly. He's way over your level and you run into him while he's at his strongest. Wait the literal 2.5 seconds for Crimson Rush to go away and then you can fight him.
: Jax repeatably 1v5
1. It's a normal dude, why are you so worked up over it? Pull out this strat with a friend in ranked and get some LP if you think it's so broken. 2. Your Aatrox is an ADC main, first timing Aatrox in the jungle. Your GP is a adc/support main, who has played a total of 13 gp games in the past 9 months. You are a top lane Nocturne OTP laning bot lane with a 20 games played Pyke and from your match history, you haven't played Nocturne bottom in a long while (if ever, not gonna waste time looking through your match history). 3. The Jax in that game wasn't even the biggest issue from my point of view. Just because he did the most damage by 10k, doesn't mean it was all him. He didn't get more than a double kill at a time. Looking at it, I would think that Talon was more of a pain. Has higher Kill Participation and just about the same damage done, same with Jinx. 4. Jax built Lifesteal, and has a Lulu & Kindred to keep him alive with Ultimates and shields. The only one of you who bought Grevious wounds was Zoe with Morell. Aatrox also has his passive, I'm assuming the first time Aatrox wasn't used to using the passive correctly and targeting the Jax when it was up. 5. Also, negligible at this point, but Aatrox and Zoe weren't full build, Aatrox needed a 5th item and Zoe didn't finish Zhonya's or even get the Stopwatch item, which may or may not have helped turn a battle. I am Bronze trash but those are just a few observations from someone who wasn't in the game and can just look at the statistics. I personally would have gone Mortal Reminder instead of Stormrazor if I were in your position. 3 people on the enemy team were building lifesteal, and I'm not 100% sure but I'm pretty sure grevious wounds effects Lulu ultimate, it definitely effects Kindred Ultimate, and would have been generally better than building Stormrazor and having to choose between auto-attacking and choosing to wait a half-second to proc the automatic crit.
SosKys (NA)
: After playing the game since Pre-season 1 (Beta) , I am quitting today. Tribunal is a stain on Riot
Played since Pre-season and "reached all different ELOs" but too scared to post from main account so have to post from this Level 23 account instead so you can come back next week, see you in a month NightBlue {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} Clearly you'er either lying or a coward.
: Which is really a silly argument from Riot. "Let's encourage people to gain Honor, but don't let them show off, so the only reward is a shit ton of key fragments, 2 capsules a year and a token on your border every now and then."
> [{quoted}](name=Ayanami3rd,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=gM3L03HB,comment-id=000000000002,timestamp=2018-05-30T16:33:24.692+0000) > > Which is really a silly argument from Riot. "Let's encourage people to gain Honor, but don't let them show off, so the only reward is a shit ton of key fragments, 2 capsules a year and a token on your border every now and then." Exactly my issue. If nothing else, at least it should be able to show off to our friends, thus solving the issue this post is about which is people potentially screwing over others' Clash experience. Or even if Riot has a thing against it, show level 3 and up and just change clash to be level 3 since it's not hard to get if you people aren't toxic.
: Fuck the Jungle Changes
Bump, as a jungle main who queues with 5 mans, every single game I have played except for 2 of them, I have been the last person on my team to get rank 1 ultimate. I get my ultimate after the support and I'm not even that far behind and I don't give up any crabs. I don't get heavily counter-jungled. The only times I would hit level 6 before our support was when I would hard farm and refuse to gank anyone before I got level 6. What Riot didn't realize is that the entire reason junglers were the first people to hit level 3 first was because leashing is commonplace. Rather than take away experience from the jungle, they should have punished junglers asking for a leash or the laner's deciding to leash the jungler. That way it becomes a decision: do you want to lose out on a possible level advantage against your lane opponents to get your jungler ahead early to influence other lanes (or your lane), OR do you not leash, and get a possible lead yourself and get ahead of your lane opponents, but then your jungler will be less of a factor in the early game?
Ulanopo (NA)
: >DON'T ALLOW US TO EVEN HAVE THE OPTION TO ADD PEOPLE WHO CANNOT ACCEPT THE INVITE!!! Agreed. There's absolutely no reason for this to be even possible.
> [{quoted}](name=Ulanopo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=gM3L03HB,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-05-30T01:52:31.037+0000) > > Agreed. There's absolutely no reason for this to be even possible. Thank you, I think it's dumb that I can even invite them, but when we've been "practicing" by queuing as a 5 man for two weeks or so now, it really drives home the fact that it's really ~really~ effing stupid that you cannot see your friend's honor. If I've been friends with a person in game for over a month and queued with them multiple times, I should be able to see their honor. In Riot's YouTube videos regarding the Honor rework a year ago New001 says "Our new approach is to integrate the honor system much more tightly with the game so honorable players can get the recognition and rewards they deserve... You'll also have your honor level. Your honor level will be view-able in your profile right next to your rank." I understand why Riot doesn't want us to know random's honor level, but if that's the case, the exact same argument could be made for seeing other random's ranking. You get into a game and look up everyone's ranking and see your bot laner is 300+ games in Bronze 3 and you're the highest ranked player on the team, how many dodges does that cause a day? Why would being able to see honor be of any greater significance especially if it's only for people on your friend list? (Didn't mean to go on a mini-rant but just thought I would respond to all in one post rather than posting 4-5 messages) Also, here's the link to the video I referenced, if I misquoted, please let me know, I did use closed captions: https://youtu.be/bY67yCaGdno?t=5m4s
: This has indeed made finding teammates a pain in the ass. I had to dump 2 people found in the LFG discord because I added them and then found out they couldn't play clash.
> [{quoted}](name=Karunamon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=gM3L03HB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-29T15:59:51.326+0000) > > This has indeed made finding teammates a pain in the ass. I had to dump 2 people found in the LFG discord because I added them and then found out they couldn't play clash. It's absurd. They shipped the new honor system as "Something you'll be proud to show off to your friends." If you're friends in game, you should be able to see your friend's honor levels.
: I like how you post this on an account that hasn't been played on in ages. If you want to post something like this be manly enough to post it on ur main.
> [{quoted}](name=CasaBlancaBR,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=MXPzFp2A,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-28T19:37:19.761+0000) > > I like how you post this on an account that hasn't been played on in ages. If you want to post something like this be manly enough to post it on ur main. This is so dumb, it's hilarious. You should go on tour. I would buy tickets.
Ciaoe (NA)
: kys or kys?
Don't understand why I never get the instant feedback report and I get "kys" typed at me or my friends in 40% of games.
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LittleOak

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