: First of all, no juggernaut will ***EVER*** out damage an even marksman. Marksmen build crit + crit damage + AD + AS + armor pen. Juggernauts can barely afford to get AD on their HP items, and at most get BC for some minor shred, that also benefits their ADC and other physical damage dealers on their team. With the way auto attacks work in this game, and the formula behind it, nothing can touch late-game marksmens' burst per second. However, if Juggernauts could reach similar levels of damage while remaining tanky enough to wade through the front line, and stay in combat for a good 5-20 seconds (that they absolutely ***NEED***) so they can actually live long enough to get some of that damage off, the game would be in a much healthier state. They trade range, safety, mobility, escapes and target acquistion all for some defense and a bit of sustain. It's quite an unfair trade off actually, that leaves juggernauts sorely disadvantaged compared to ranged AD carries (marksmen); despite the fact that both archetypes are supposed to be AD carries.
Reality: once Urgot's got a Black cleaver, bramble, and a health item or two, I end up killing myself even looking at him unless I'm sporting a Bloodthirster, in which case I'll deal no damage because this one cuck is zoning me from the fight, because if I ignore him, I die.
: > [{quoted}](name=PB4UAME,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0cKebPu9,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2017-11-20T08:40:40.616+0000) > > First of all, no juggernaut will ***EVER*** out damage an an even marksman. > > Marksmen build crit + crit damage + AD + AS + armor pen. > > Juggernauts can barely afford to get AD on their HP items, and at most get BC for some minor shred, that also benefits their ADC and other physical damage dealers on their team. > > With the way auto attacks work in this game, and the formula behind it, nothing can touch late-game marksmens' burst per second. > > However, if Juggernauts could reach similar levels of damage while remaining tanky enough to wade through the front line, and stay in combat for a good 5-20 seconds (that they absolutely ***NEED***) so they can actually live long enough to get some of that damage off, the game would be in a much healthier state. > > They trade range, safety, mobility, escapes and target acquistion all for some defense and a bit of sustain. It's quite an unfair trade off actually, that leaves juggernauts sorely disadvantaged compared to ranged AD carries 9marksmen); despite the fact that both archetypes are supposed to be AD carries. The issue is that there ADC's will bitch if their damage is not the best or if they get deleted for mispositioning. That said. Juggs are supposed to survive in the thick of things just like tanks are supposed to. Instead of them doing the disrupting or peeling, they are all about the damage and it should be like that. Problem is, some tanks have good damage and it can disrupt the dynamic of what it means to be a juggernaut. Look at Sej and Rammus and formerly zac, they have good damage and they can do a juggs job better if they are OP or broken. Another issue is that juggs should have to worry about poke damage or having a little less current HP than normal because of their sustain and durability, that fact juggs have to even worry about their durability even when they are even or ahead is a sad thing. the only time they should be worried is when they are behind or dealing with an anti tank champion like Vayne or the maw.
Right, how dare marksmen sit within Jarvan's like 800-unit death range, or within range of any gapcloser. They should just sit out the entire fight until their teammates are dead :)
: Have you ever been crit 3 times by a vayne who hit her IE ss powerspike?
Lol, that champion's absolute trash, but yes. I can still sit on her with virtually any marksman other than Jhin because her damage got repurposed as more of a true tank buster. rather than someone you can rely on to deal more damage onto other classes in a shorter period of time.
Rioter Comments
: Why Urgot is a great example of a modern Juggernaut concept
Because being able to outdamage a marksman while building full tank and a black cleaver is healthy.
Rioter Comments
: League feels boring at this very moment
inb4 some idiot makes the "it's nostalgia" comment.
: You obviously haven't been around when Turrets were actually durable and games devolved into 40 minute farming simulations with wave clear mages like Ziggs or Anivia being the only playable mids. Towers might be a tad too weak but tinkering with their power will result in huge shifts in terms of game flow and make rift herald/baron almost mandatory to siege.
Right, because the meta of gutting the enemy bot lane and taking their turret in ~10 minutes is remotely healthy.
: Does Riot actually listen to our feedback?
"However, adcs got to keep ALL of their instant burst critical strikes, counterplay-free" LOL. Never in my life have I seen an ADC "burst" anyone who wasn't like 3 levels and two thousand+ gold below them. AD + lethality {{champion:59}} nukes marksmen harder than a full combo by {{champion:238}} with his ult.
: Just f*cking venting about Hyper-Mobility
Lol why is Trist on that list? She gets one hop every like what, 20 seconds? Unless she's daring enough to jump into the enemy team, which should make her a predictably linear and easy target to nuke.
Rioter Comments
: It's the last day of League as we know it
Played since Season 3, but old runes offered just as much versatility but in healthier ways. If you wanted more early game stats/cheese, go for it, but it'll fall off late, and so forth. New runes are just a cancerous version of our current keystones. Making it difficult to reach level 30 was a GOOD thing because it deterred smurfs from making even more accounts and those whose minds don't have the patience for a true MOBA game. I'm no fan with the direction the game is going. It's worse every season, not because of nostalgia or some bs excuse like that, but because it's becoming less of a game that tailors to mechanics and strategy and more on unnecessary macro elements like the fucking Rift Herald to snowball games into someone's favor because it guarantees a free turret. They finally caved and gave people the option to pick 1 of 2 roles, and guess what, players still suck ass at either. Ranked's a shitshow atm because people's patience have grown thinner and thinner because the morons at Riot Games decided to normalize it by speeding up a strategy game for some bizarre reason. Rift is garbage. I'm migrating to Twisted Treeline, where said mechanics and strategy are more rewarded.
Rioter Comments
: Please make games longer again.
Buff towers (wind up faster, deal heavy damage like Treeline's Nexus towers after 2 shots,) tone down some of the cc, much of the burst damage (mage, bruisers, tanks, marksmen, everyone) and get rid of the fucking Rift Herald and you've got yourself a decent game again.
: Oh.So you're one of those guys who spams no on ff vote with 1\20+ score with 2-3 enemy dragons and 6+ lost towers vs no our dragons and no taken towers at 20 minutes? I'd rather punishing someone like you for "holding a game hostage" to be honest...
Don't play the game if you feel like surrendering. It's a strategy game ffs, and why throw such an extreme scenario?
: A Plat player is currently running it down mid for at least the past 20 games.
Just goes to show how much of a joke the punishment system is, huh.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lock On,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gv5vxQA2,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-11-02T19:05:45.460+0000) > > Something to curb this asinine mentality of "hurr durr, we picked late-game champs and we're down 3 kills but let's ff, NEXT GAME." > If you don't even have the patience to try teamfighting or changing tactics, this game isn't for you. Proposing anyone who casts a surrender or agrees to it face a 1-hour penalty so they can get some fresh air before taking their bs into someone else's game. So your solution to people not wanting to play an unwinnable game is to punish them? Id rather have them /ff than int or flame
Lmao, we stalled out for like 15 minutes and won some 4v5s. Our late game was kicking in, but it was too bad our midlaner decided to ragequit after two failed surrender votes. Teemo was hitting the top inhib and winning the game when that happened too. My hypercarries are only down by at most a few hundred gold yet they want to ff in 15 minutes. Seriously? YES, punish them. With the except of, I guess, high elo (master and challenger) tiers because they've a much better idea of when a game is actually over. I've won a ton of games in lower elo where my teammates kicked and cried when things looked bad. Plenty of throws still happen, but people rather grind through like 500 ranked games not learning how to deal with anything other than a favorable snowball.
: I feel like camping bot lane is infact the answer to winning.
Lol no. Look at my past game. Started off with a crazy strong Jhin. It's irrelevant when two lanes can't hold their own.
Rioter Comments
: Why are players punished for winning games?
Hence why I'm for a rework of the whole LP/promo system of climbing. Everything is based purely on wins/losses, and doesn't recognize your individual ability, yet ironically it's called "solo queue" where you even duo with another. Bring the old system back before divisions (I, II, III, etc) were a thing or get rid of them entirely.
: I don't want people first timing yasuo and similar at high elo, where they're that much more likely to get punished for their mistakes. Better to just let people learn wherever, and hope that it's not in your own ranked games.
They should be barred from playing said champion in ranked without a minimum amount of games, which vary based on supposed difficulty per champ. Don't see why this is such a difficult pill to swallow.
: Err.... I kinda checked your op.gg to see if you were just tilted...but you seem to play lots of aram games? Isn't it kind of expected that some people will do poorly in that game mode? Sorry if I'm missing the point, I'm just shocked that a person who plays mostly aram would make this kind of thread lol
Ah, you came across my last 20 games! Surely it's not like I haven't only recently begun playing some ARAM with a group.
: Except they aren't. And how would you know about their job performance unless you work with them or are in the profession? You seem to be upset about a over tuned champ. That's fine of course, it's also understandable you'd like it addressed. However, claiming they're bad at their job is ridiculous.
: This is why Riot doesn't visit the boards anymore. Bunch of childish whiners and people with awful manners, if any at all. Singed and Sivir had 55%+ win rates, Galio isn't even breaking 50% He's on 48% Doesn't mean he doesn't need changes but he isn't warping the game by himself, you're just yet another example why Riot's better off doing their thing rather than cater to this vocal minority circlejerk that is the boards.
He's currently the best midlaner in the game and 7/51 among meta top laners. It's more than just winrate: it's how well and how many areas the champ excels at in a given role. http://champion.gg/champion/galio/Middle?
DeusVult (NA)
: Tanks are Riots favorite class?? Have you even seen an ADC??
Yeah, except they're only relevant when a comp is designed around them. Otherwise, it's a matter of how quickly the autistic {{champion:59}} can dive the backline and burst them down with two damage items.
Eedat (NA)
: The Sterak's buffs feel really good but its not even close to enough. I feel llike you have to be a triforce user to really feel it. I'm hoping the ardent nerfs kill off the cancer supports like Janna and Lulu so I'm not completely nullified entirely by BS point and click hard CC. I dont even give a damn about ADCs. I'd much rather gut the bullshit heal/shield stacking of supports so the ADCs can actually die again. Riot needs to undo the BC nerfs. ***All of them*** then make it half as effective for ranged. So sick of shit like {{champion:236}} {{champion:21}} getting our itemization nerfed. But hey lets make {{item:3076}} to deal with ADCs lifestealing instead of nerfing lifesteal directly. Who cares how hard it fucks {{champion:122}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:266}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:75}} etc right? Cant just nerf the problem. Gotta make up some bullshit to take the melees out too
Lifesteal isn't nearly as great as you think it is. Even with 15% lifesteal, someone who can permanently sit on the carry will slowly kill them with over half of their hp remaining. Keep in mind, marksmen heal for a tiny fraction of that one auto attack; it's only enough to sustain themselves in a fight, given they aren't dived on by 800-unit gapclosers (hello {{champion:59}} )
Rexxiee (NA)
: I think this whole galio fiasco shows that this balance team needs to be changed
Would love to bring back a point where tanks and marksmen truly defined the late game, with bruisers and assassins falling off EXTREMELY hard for failing to make the most out of their early game/roaming potential to carry. The balance team is a fucking joke; they seriously must not even play their own game. It boggles my mind how Galio, with just a moderate amount of AP, no pen, deals 2.3k damage on me as Morgana with 500 bonus hp to 0-100 me. On top of the fact he was still very tanky and has great utility (aoe, uninterruptable cc and a fat shield).
: Yeah. Let them play the game how they want.
Not when their actions mistake them for someone with Parkinson's.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Spooder (EUW)
: Humiliated in my first ever ranked game
You don't have to play ranked to play with a competitive mindset. Ffs you're still learning the game.
Eedat (NA)
: Well they dont. They have to kite aroud and orb walk efficiently. For example, if I can get on to a {{item:3031}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3033}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3085}} {{item:3006}} {{champion:29}} as my main with {{item:3142}} {{item:3147}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3026}}{{item:3074}} {{champion:62}} {{item:3047}} I will ***DELETE*** him off the face of the planet every single time. The thing that holds me back is when things like {{champion:40}} {{champion:117}} make it actually impossible to get to the ADC, let alone do any damage through 3k worth of heals and shields
Janna is laughable. Lulu on the other hand is somewhat busted given she can deal a lot of damage early in the game and continue to be extremely useful utility-wise late game. She's basically a better Janna.
GigglesO (NA)
: "You shouldn't be allowed to win fights by pure stats"
An ADC is almost laughably easy to kill these days compared to prior seasons. {{item:3102}} isn't even a viable defensive purchase for marksmen anymore; but {{item:3155}} is somehow going to protect me from a {{champion:105}} ult that covers over half the mid lane and playful trickster. Or getting 0-100'd by Ahri in one fast, mid-ranged combo. Or getting perma cc'd by {{champion:57}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:59}} and blowing up.All while playing at 525 range when everyone nowadays either has very reliable "soft cc" in their kits or a low CDR gapcloser/escape. Tanks/bruisers/juggernauts can build 2, 3 AD items max and nuke a squishy, unless your team actually provides any support for you in the back. Hell, I sometimes like taking {{item:3142}} {{item:3071}} as {{champion:86}} , run into their backline for 3 seconds and pop em for free while leaving with over half my health. It's not rocket science. Game got too braindead easy while roles that require more skill and positioning got dumped on. Yes, in theory they should deal the most damage in the game, but that's assuming no one on the enemy team is coming after them.
Vanic998 (NA)
: Where were you last season? Tons of high Elo players complained about long queue times. It was the whole reason why riot released auto fill for high elo players FIRST then for everyone else next season. I remember in the boards, queue times were one of the most complained about things. It used to fill up the gameplay section all the time. I'm not detached from reality. Playing a third and fourth role worked well for me and other players I know so I'm more attached then you are. If you're "out of practice" then you never learned them to begin with.
Idk what this guy's talking about either. Literally everyone in Master and up was fed the fuck up and Riot made numerous attempts at improving said queue times.
: > [{quoted}](name=Vanic998,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y7PMvjtE,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-09-02T15:44:24.055+0000) > > They're not garbage. They're just too stubborn to even try to learn other roles. No, we're garbage. Because we play most games in our preferred roles, we're not nearly as good at the other roles as people in our elo who main those roles are. My jungle is bronze level, must dodge if filled. Poor Yenn himself had to witness it a couple weeks ago I'm surprised he didn't make a thread about it.
Then you probably deserve a lower elo. It's a team game -- all the more reason to understand the pressures of every other role first. Also helps understand strengths and weaknesses. It's no wonder some of my plat game experiences don't feel vastly different from those in low silver. Gold was a respect elo back when I started in S3. It's whatever now; people rather spam 400 ranked games and rely on promohelper and that 50% chance than learn to get better and play out their games even if they look bad.
Yenn (NA)
: I should not be encountering auto-filled players in every single ranked game, with 1-2 minute queues
You're right: let's get rid of it and encourage players to learn at least a bit of every other role before they decide to spam one. We unarguably had more intelligent players back in the day.
: Why do people think it's cute to say gg ez at the very end?
League of Legends, one of the few games out there that take troll bait more seriously than game balance and ragequitters.
Kei143 (NA)
: if you can't hit a decent ELO then it's on you to improve. Don't blame the system when you can't do well.
Kei143 (NA)
: sounds like someone can't control their anger and is salty for the system punishing them.
Well, when you give enough of a damn about winning a game to the point where you have a pretty good idea of what you're doing, and someone starts spewing bs at me for their own obvious mistakes, no shit I'm gonna get ticked off. I'll tell you what I *would* be truly "salty" about, though: playing hundreds of ranked games and never hitting a decent elo. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
: > he'll eventually get warned and suspended pretty quickly, but not those surrounding him. Just like in league! As long as you don't stoop to his level, you are fine. >You are willing to punish ANYONE who types anything other than "gg <3" or some fruity shit like that. If I could pull my chat logs (or if Rito wants to) you'll see you can actually say lots of stuff without getting banned. >And knowing people will get punished themselves for reporting another player Reporting someone doesn't start a review of your own behavior. If you flame the guy flaming you and he reports you, that will start the review. > Because limiting someone to like 5 messages in a span of 10-15 minutes is totally going to reform players. Reducing the amount of messages isn't supposed to be what reforms you. The warning that you are on track to more severe punishment is what is supposed to motivate the reform while the chat ban helps limit the damage you can do while trying to reform. >Hell, I can't even fathom why you make it your business to try converting people's toxic personalities. Because instabans is not a good way to deal with toxicity. >- punish only the player who clearly initiated a toxic environment If someone says mean words to you and you can't control yourself to not also become toxic af then odds are, you are generally toxic > - quickly move from warning to suspension to ban You mean faster than 3 strikes? Chat bans are warnings, 14-day ban is a final warning and a perma is (obviously) you're done. Going beyond that would provide people with very little time to reform. Reformation doesn't happen after one game, you have to unlearn the toxic tenancies you have picked up that led to your restriction/ban. >I don't look like an idiot who doesn't know how to play the game in front of everyone else. If someone is flaming you I can guarantee that your teammates aren't sitting there thinking "man this dude calling our top laner a f***** for missing a skill shot makes some good points". They have probably muted them or are just ignoring them, by arguing you are making the situation much much worse and only helping the other team and giving the trolls what they want. > I may as well start some shit myself, since my punishment wouldn't be any worse than those who reply back Hey, there is my point from above. If you are willing to react with toxicity then you are probably a toxic player and the ban is warranted.
> [{quoted}](name=SavageConcordia,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YfUoJdtt,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-08-23T13:29:07.488+0000) > If someone says mean words to you and you can&#x27;t control yourself to not also become toxic af then odds are, you are generally toxic Wow, out of the 365 days of the year, I've been inflicted with a couple days worth of chat restrictions, and that makes me a generally toxic person. You are something else.
Lock On (NA)
: No Riot, I don't understand your backwards logic
Jesus, people. Chat restrictions =/= behavior reform. Riot Games wouldn't know the first thing about counseling if it hit them on the back of the head. If chat restrictions are in place to reduce damage, then by default they're admitting they don't know how to actually control anyone's emotions, so yes, if someone starts a toxic environment, and an instant ban was actually a threat rather than a stupid chat restriction, I'd never type a word, mute them, and report them at the end of the game and be content! I wouldn't be typing this up in the first place if their system was the least bit effective. I don't doubt for a moment the overwhelming majority of players are dissatisfied at how easily toxic players get away with their shit for numerous games before getting hit for like a 5-game chat restriction for first offense, which is peanuts; they'll spam some 15-minute bot games.
SirPurrr (NA)
: I love playing with toxic teammates! NO SARCASM!
Shit-talking helps make the game a bit more enjoyable, in my taste. Those who don't want to hear it can mute, but I'll never understand the coddling babysitter mentality Riot has in their policy. I have a more enjoyable experience playing call of duty with fewer rewards and more whiny shits because there's hardly any restraints (should definitely avoid racism and whatnot, obviously.)
Rioter Comments
: We need more manual intervention in the report system
Their system is a joke overall. Got a 24-game chat restriction despite other players making large efforts to instigate a shitty playing environment. Essentially, I'm apparently just as bad even though someone else committed the offense first. Would you use that kiddie anecdote in say, a fight? "It doesn't matter who started it" when it does; if I'm defending myself from an assailant, why the FUCK should I be charged. Riot Games is trying to play the world's largest video game baby sitter to grown ass men and women, it's ridiculous. May as well disable the chat for everyone; I don't see how restricting someone to 5 messages in like a span of 10-15 minutes is helpful; it needlessly punishes everyone else since I can't communicate certain discrepancies with pings alone. "Ults down, half hp so easy fight, or initiate" aren't options. But yeah, fuck this game. I think most of us play simply because it's addicting, and don't enjoy it nearly as much as we did in the past, if you're a veteran player like myself (started mid season 3.) I've since heavily slowed down investing in this game because it simply isn't worth my dollar anymore.
Rioter Comments
: i think we should overhaul defensive stats too. why do squishy classes all get the most out of armor and magic resist (aka the first 100 points have the strongest value. make 100 magic resist and armor go to 75% defense and let 200 magic resist and armor go to 25% like it currently does {i think})
Resistances hardly mean anything without health.
Dasdi96 (NA)
: Can riot stop being so insistent on adcs being the only late game class?
Lol. It's stupid-easy to shut down a marksman these days.
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