Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=LogicalThinkTank,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=222ltc3z,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2018-08-14T04:54:21.550+0000) > > It had quite a bit of evidence, and through research there was linked proof that riots HR department emailed some of the women mentioned in the articles, and said that they basically shouldve kept their mouths shuts (the links/posts/screenshots have been deleted from the original sources do to personal safety issues regarding the mentioned womens privacy and such, but Im sure somebody has some screenshots, Im to lazy to find them though as I saw the originals CAN WE SEE THIS STUFF ANYWHERE BECAUSE THIS IS BASICALLY WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THAT ARTICLE TOO? :IIIIIII
> [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=222ltc3z,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-14T05:29:15.058+0000) > > CAN WE SEE THIS STUFF ANYWHERE BECAUSE THIS IS BASICALLY WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THAT ARTICLE TOO? :IIIIIII You can prob find somebody willing to share screenshots, but a-lot of it is been censored/hidden/taken down.
: > [{quoted}](name=LogicalThinkTank,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=222ltc3z,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-08-13T03:21:37.333+0000) > > You mean the same article that Riot just tweeted about (pretty much self admitting there is a problem) where they are promising change? still doesnt change the fact that the article was garbage with no hard evidence and didnt deserve any attention
> [{quoted}](name=UnboundHades,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=222ltc3z,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2018-08-13T03:25:18.230+0000) > > still doesnt change the fact that the article was garbage with no hard evidence and didnt deserve any attention It had quite a bit of evidence, and through research there was linked proof that riots HR department emailed some of the women mentioned in the articles, and said that they basically shouldve kept their mouths shuts (the links/posts/screenshots have been deleted from the original sources do to personal safety issues regarding the mentioned womens privacy and such, but Im sure somebody has some screenshots, Im to lazy to find them though as I saw the originals
Jamaree (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=LogicalThinkTank,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=222ltc3z,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-08-13T03:21:37.333+0000) > > You mean the same article that Riot just tweeted about (pretty much self admitting there is a problem) where they are promising change? Can I see that tweet?
> [{quoted}](name=Jamaree,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=222ltc3z,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-13T03:23:21.564+0000) > > Can I see that tweet? follow riot games on twitter...
: oh you mean the thing thats from kotaku and lacks any hard evidence which would be pretty easy to get along with this "Lacy made it her mission to hire a woman into a leadership role" which in itself can be seen as sexist but hey who cares if its a women being sexist amiright
> [{quoted}](name=UnboundHades,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=222ltc3z,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-13T03:20:23.081+0000) > > oh you mean the thing thats from kotaku and lacks any hard evidence which would be pretty easy to get You mean the same article that Riot just tweeted about (pretty much self admitting there is a problem) where they are promising change?
: [Here's the recent info.](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/94f90r/riot_is_closing_the_permaban_accounts_experiment/) Some relevant passages: >I can not make any promises that this experiment will result in direct changes to permabans in League of Legends but we are committed to doing what makes the most sense for our players and this effort is an example of us checking our assumptions about what makes good moderation in League of Legends. >We will be unable to provide updates on this experiment’s success (or lack of success) or any updates on when we might have another experiment like it or when we might make changes in the future. >We do not have any plans to unban or allow players to return to League on perma-banned accounts outside of this experiment. The fact that we’re running this limited experiment should not give hope that we will end up changing our policies at a later date. We are 100% committed to looking at the data we collect from this process in order to do what’s best for League and our players. We are very aware that we might find our current policies are working as intended and permabanned accounts will stay banned forever. You should be prepared for this possibility.
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=iQgOy19E,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-12T18:46:31.264+0000) > > [Here's the recent info.](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/94f90r/riot_is_closing_the_permaban_accounts_experiment/) > > Some relevant passages: Can you provide context to which accounts will be unbanned on NA? I have a perma banned account on NA and I am curious if it is all perma banned accounts on NA being unbanned? or just a select few?
Rioter Comments
: Sometimes when I jungle...
{{champion:20}} {{summoner:11}} {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=LogicalThinkTank,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v6hkkOkZ,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-06-26T04:09:49.816+0000) > > except what does base stats of any other player besides yourself have ANYTHING to do with what runes you want to take? Well you're right, but knowing a players' masteries and runes gives you ways to counter that in game. I gave a few instances why that knowledge affects your gameplay. >the old system was fine, and even allowed for rune pages that worked over a variety of champs (On an old account, I used the same few rune pages here and there) but it allowed me to edit the minor things that ACTUALLY MATTERED without sacrificing a huge chunk of my rune page But I think one of the drawbacks to that is the lack of adjustability. You have an advantage over your opponent when you have all the runes and rune pages.
Peri, I think you missed my first point, In the old system there was NO WAY in champion select (and there still isnt) to check what runes your enemies are bringing, which made me ask why does what a players base stats have anything to do with what runes I take when I wont even know their base stats until after we get into load screen and I could then op.gg it if I wanted to, but that only caters to my in game playstyle and build and had nothing to do with runes. on the second point: they shouldve just made all runes free and all masteries unlocked at level 1 then, rather mash them up into one crummy system that seems like a knock off version of masteries
: There was a bit more mystery with the old system. I mean, unless you were exceptionally good with memorization and math, it'd be pretty difficult to look at a players' base stats and decipher what runes and/or masteries and plan accordingly (in game). There are fewer choices in this set, but it does allow for you to make important decisions both before and during game. You chose predator on a support? You're roaming more often than in lane. Took domination as your secondary on Galio? You're more interested in affecting sidelanes and team fights (imo). Those interpretations were a bit tougher to make in the old system.
except what does base stats of any other player besides yourself have ANYTHING to do with what runes you want to take? the old system was fine, and even allowed for rune pages that worked over a variety of champs (On an old account, I used the same few rune pages here and there) but it allowed me to edit the minor things that ACTUALLY MATTERED without sacrificing a huge chunk of my rune page for example: I could jungle nunu and take dragon at level 2 or 3, and id use the masteries for biscuts+buff extension, then go tanky on my masteries, Id ad CDR+spell vamp on my runes, which allowed me to effectively heal really well on my Q allowing early dragons... cant do that anymore FOR A HUGE VARIETY OF COUGH JUNGLE CHANGES COUGH REASONS
: > [{quoted}](name=LogicalThinkTank,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YG9fyhfM,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-13T22:38:51.392+0000) > > Hey man, anything works here really, I just wanted to kind of create a thread to discuss stuff like this, see what peoples opinions are etc, and why they think that way. Im curious if alot of people were like me and had the initial "knee jerk" reaction, but would be ok with it because they are nice, or if people think its 100% not ok or 100% ok! My suspicion is it will mostly be "this is not okay," because the current rules mostly stem from the data Riot gathered on the Tribunal about what players did/didn't punish, combined with their data on what the community has consistently reported since then. That level of big data gets you a pretty accurate glimpse into what people consider okay, and the situations where they're willing to make exceptions.
Oh yeah, Thats my guess to, I am curious to see though how many people look beyond the "knee-jerk" reaction of "OH OFFENSIVE NAME MUST REPORT" and are willing to say "well if hes an asshole then sure, but if he isnt, then I dont see the harm and its kind of funny!"
: > [{quoted}](name=LogicalThinkTank,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YG9fyhfM,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-13T22:30:19.893+0000)thats a good example! I'm on point occasionally. :P
Hey man, anything works here really, I just wanted to kind of create a thread to discuss stuff like this, see what peoples opinions are etc, and why they think that way. Im curious if alot of people were like me and had the initial "knee jerk" reaction, but would be ok with it because they are nice, or if people think its 100% not ok or 100% ok!
: > Again Just a Reminder this isnt to defend (or not defend) the name, but just gauge a community response as im curious what both sides of the argument think. I understand as much, and made my response appropriately. > On point 4: you mention that its players who choose whats offensive, which is what does bring me back to point 3: the system does seem quite loose, if riot is allowed an ever fluctuating society and community whats offensive or not offensive, in laymans terms: if the community gets to decide whats toxic, then the community can literally report somebody for anything as long as its considered offensive to them, and large groups of people would in theory be able to game the system to get something innocent banned In theory, yes. In practice, no. It is hypothetically possible for a sufficiently large group of people in the community to pronounce something as toxic or offensive (which has occurred with the abbreviation of "kys"), but, it does ultimately fall to Riot to make the final decision of whether or not the behavior in question should be punished. The Djinn used your example of "Imredneckrandy" to good effect with his argument; > No. The things that get hit are pretty much just hate speech, crass sexuality, and things related to real-world dictators or violence against people. While "ImRedNeckRandy" might be slightly insulting, it isn't a common derogatory term. > > In short, the rules don't say "you can't do anything that offends people." They limit certain types of words and behavior, and, while one of those behaviors is _intentionally trying_ to offend people, they do understand that sometimes people are offended by things that are relatively harmless. "ImRedNeckRandy" would be in the latter category (could take offense, but no inherent offense), while your friends name is in the former. There could potentially be a day when the community makes a push to consider the use of the term "redneck" as universally insulting or offensive, which, more or less, it can be considered to be so already, but, as it stands, making a screenname like "Imredneckrandy" isn't as inherently offensive as a name containing deliberate hate speech. While they do let the community generally decide what is and isn't offensive, Riot makes the final decisions and adjustments that tell the IFS that "this behavior/this word is offensive", which prevents the system from being so loose as to punish innocuous chat or screennames.
Interesting read, I didnt know "KYS" went through the process I described, (although I do remember alot of people relating KYS you 'keep yourself safe')
: > [{quoted}](name=LogicalThinkTank,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YG9fyhfM,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-13T21:04:17.483+0000)Do those answers reflect your opinions on the matter though? I am aware of the rules [obviously its not allowed] but this is more wondering what the community thinks of the rule In this instance I think the rules are fully appropriate, and indeed reflective of my own opinion on the matter as it relates to what should be allowed in the League of Legends community. I will not presume to tell others what they should or should not find amusing in private, but there are some things that are appropriate when interacting in a public community and some things that are not. The classic example is comedy. If you go to a random comedy show and the comedian begins doing a bit that is incredibly crass or uses derogatory language then it is not appropriate because there was no warning that you were going to be exposed to that sort of content. If, however, you go to see a comedian well known for exactly that sort of content, then you buy the ticket in the full understanding that that is what you will be exposed to. This is, to me, the important distinction. When you expose someone to this sort of derogatory language -- even as a joke -- without their prior consent, it is inappropriate. Your friend does not have the consent of everyone he plays with to make it appropriate to use that content humorously, and thus it is inappropriate and deserving of punishment.
: 1) I believe it has to do with Riot wanting the community to help decide what is and isn't acceptable. I don't speak for Riot, but, it falls pretty well in line with the idea that the community should have a say in what does or doesn't get punished - or, rather, what they do or do not see in their games. That said, it also has to do with the fact that it would be extremely laborious to try and set up a system that accounts for _every variation_ of _every offensive word_ that they don't want to see used for a screenname. There are umpteen different variants of given letters with different accents, variants taken from different languages with various alterations (strikethroughs, accents, etc.) - it's ultimately much more cost-effective to punish the player _after_ they've made the offensive screenname than to try and make it physically impossible to have that screenname period. 2) Yes, the ban for the name was warranted. Your friend may try to tiptoe around the fact by saying "it's not directly saying the words...", but the fact of the matter is, _it is._ It doesn't take a mathematician to rearrange letters in title case, and it is _abundantly_ clear what his intent was. That he tried to circumvent the system in such a fashion is extra reason to punish him. 3) No, the system isn't too loose. I don't imagine that a screenname like "Imredneckrandy" would require a name change or a punishment, but, if people find reference to the redneck stereotype offensive, then, it would only be fair. 4) Yes, again, the ban is warranted. The issue isn't _Riot_ allowing the name - it's players. You have to remember that for a name to be changed or punished for, players have to report it as offensive in the first place. Do not blame Riot for the actions of the playerbase - yourself included. 5) Plays on words should certainly be looked into. People think they're clever up until their decidedly sly offensive screennames come back to bite them in the ass. 6) Whether or not the player is toxic is irrelevant to the subject of their screenname. They chose a screenname that _blatantly_ uses hate speech twice. I don't care if that player is friendlier than The Djinn, Riot makes it abundantly clear in the [ToU](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse#code-conduct) that hate speech and offensive screennames aren't allowed. > The following are examples of behavior that warrant disciplinary measures: > > xi. Selecting a Summoner name that is...offensive...racially, ethnically, or otherwise objectionable. They knew full well that their screenname was against the rules. They can try to sidestep the punishment all they want, but they got what was coming to them.
Again Just a Reminder this isnt to defend (or not defend) the name, but just gauge a community response as im curious what both sides of the argument think. On point 4: you mention that its players who choose whats offensive, which is what does bring me back to point 3: the system does seem quite loose, if riot is allowed an ever fluctuating society and community whats offensive or not offensive, in laymans terms: if the community gets to decide whats toxic, then the community can literally report somebody for anything as long as its considered offensive to them, and large groups of people would in theory be able to game the system to get something innocent banned
: >Should this name be considered "offensive" and be punishable and why or why not? Absolutely. It's painfully apparently that's he's trying to circumvent the rules on names by using a commonly known swapping property (the spoonerism) to get two hate speech words into one name. If I saw that on the boards it would be instantly perma-banned until such time as the individual changed the account name and came to the Moderation Discord to prove that fact. ----------------------------- >1) If Riot doesn't want offensive names, why cant they have a tool/system similar to the chat restriction system that monitors in game names and can ban ones with outright offensive material in them or keep them from being created in the first place. I believe they do, actually. The catch is that people can do things like your friend did to bypass it with names that are obviously still offensive. If "Aardvark" were a banned word, do you also ban "4ardvark" and "Aardv4rk" and all the other variations that obviously mean that word? You really can't do that for everything. >2) Does my friend deserve a ban over his name based on the name itself? Yes. It brings hate speech into each and every game he is in. >3) If you answered yes to the above question: Do you then think that the system is too loose because almost anything can be considered offensive then? IE: somebody could have the name "Imredneckrandy" and somebody named randy could in theory report it for being offensive. No. The things that get hit are pretty much just hate speech, crass sexuality, and things related to real-world dictators or violence against people. While "ImRedNeckRandy" might be slightly insulting, it isn't a common derogatory term. In short, the rules don't say "you can't do anything that offends people." They limit certain types of words and behavior, and, while one of those behaviors is *intentionally trying* to offend people, they do understand that sometimes people are offended by things that are relatively harmless. "ImRedNeckRandy" would be in the latter category (could take offense, but no inherent offense), while your friends name is in the former. >4) Should my friend get a ban even though RIOT potentially allowed this name, despite the play on words? Yes. See point #2, and the fact that the "play on words" is an obvious attempt to use hate speechl. >5) should JUST offensive names be banned, or should play on words be looked into aswell? When offensive, they should. I don't think the username "Djinn Gimlet" is harmful, for example, despite being a play on words (and a delicious drink), but "FiggerNaggot" definitely is. >6) what if the player isnt toxic? The behavior is toxic even if the player isn't. Bringing hate speech -- even if "hidden" in this way -- into the game is inherently a violation of the rules, and is just as toxic as typing it into the in-game chat.
Do those answers reflect your opinions on the matter though? I am aware of the rules ( obviously its not allowed) but this is more wondering what the community thinks of the rule
Rioter Comments
Chermorg (NA)
: That's not tilt, that's statistics. All streaks come to an end eventually. So why worry about exactly when they do?
I always thought tilt meant that youre on the statistical losing streak/ game (basically tilt= the excuse people use for losing rather than blame themselves) that being said, in terms of ranked, nobody really wants to lose ranked, and knowing you might be due for a ranked loss can seem disheartening
Chermorg (NA)
: I'd say yes to your analysis. Working on the attitude - i.e. either preventing it from being triggered or eliminating it altogether - is the goal. I'm not saying tilt doesn't exist - I'm saying it's 100% possible for someone to control their emotions and not tilt. Tilt is a product not of a game - but of an attitude problem of a person.
But do you still not also suffer from the statistical tilt? Where whether its due to actions of your own, or your team, or what not, that after a certain amount of wins in a row, you will eventually lose a game? (Even challenjour players get tilted) Whats the best kind of of way to just avoid generally anxiety or worry that youve won so many games in a row that youre going to end up losing one or more soon
Chermorg (NA)
: I getcha. I think it's important to realize that when we have subconscious biases they're present in games, win or lose. Regardless of how the games are going, this subconscious attitude is a large reason for your toxicity and is something that you'll have to work to improve - but it is possible and I think you're making good steps here in this thread. I'd add one more reason though - you're throwing away unnecessary games due to tilt. Even ones you aren't being punished for - you're getting frustrated and I *guarantee* it's losing you games. It may be losing you 1% of games, or maybe 10% of your games - but some small percent of games that would've been won are lost due to frustration on your part. Controlling that frustration will do wonders to helping you win.
So one the first part, what I take from that is even though Im not being punished for all the games per say, I should really work on figuring out what kind of starts to trigger me in a negative way, and then work on ways to keep those small triggers from pissing me off? As for being tilted vs not tilted, statistically tilt DOES exist because you cant win 100% of your games 100% of the time, but what are your best strategies to avoid personal tilt or in essence uh.. how do you go about knowing that youre due to loose some games because youve gone on say a 10 win streak, whats the best way to avoid the idea that youre "due" to tilt?
Chermorg (NA)
: So, first, no hard feelings - I understand you're upset about the circumstances and we all make mistakes. Second, there is no such thing as "defensive toxicity". If something is toxic, it's not permissible - ever. It doesn't matter if "they started it" or if "they triggered me". You're expected (as we all are) to control your emotions in game. So, you claim here that intentionally feeding is "purposefully ignoring others". You seem to think that others have to listen to you. That is the problem here. Each individual is allowed to do what they think will win the game. They aren't required to do what **you** think they need to do. If they think they can win the fight, they can go into the fight. If they think it's worth risking counterjungling when they don't see the enemy jungler, that's their right. You aren't the captain or boss, and while you're allowed to ping and *request* others to do things, you aren't allowed to expect or demand. This is another instance where teamwork, politeness, and civility will go a long way. I have a feeling a lot of times you're likely aggressive in your requesting of others - instead of "hey, can we try X instead i think it'll help" you say "we need to X." and then "why aren't we X" and you continue to be aggressive. I say this because I've known multiple players who are (for the most part) reformed now but used to be toxic assholes in game. They used to act this same way - whether they admitted it or not (some still don't). They had this attitude of "mother knows best, and I'm mother" - they thought they knew better than everyone else and that bossing others around would help them win. I get you're claiming trolls in the games you're punished for.. but I still haven't really been able to find them. I fear you're suffering from confirmation bias here (as is another poster who recently told me "she ran under tower and died" in "every lane" when that wasn't true). The TLDR of this is that you are unable to accept (you're in denial) that you're not a higher skill level. You think your skill is underestimated, the game's holding you back, and that it's always someone else's fault. You subconsciously need someone else to blame for a loss (or a game that's going downhill) so you try to find blame. You know that unless someone is trolling, the blame is generally on the whole team - but you can't accept any blame, so you have to find *someone* trolling to blame to make yourself feel better. That's where the "you're the problem" comes in. Until you can get yourself out of denial, you can never hope to improve your attitude and start winning games more often. Your inherent need to find someone else wrong in a game doesn't just come in end game chat - it starts in champ select and you're likely already subconsciously looking for who you can blame if it goes wrong. What you think is a bad matchup, maybe you op.gg them and see a bad winrate... whatever it is. And I really hope you look at it and realize you're doing these things and that you *do* have this attitude. That's the goal here - however aggressive I am being with you - is to try to break through. I don't *want* you to get banned. I don't want *anyone* to get banned. I want everyone to be able to enjoy League. But they can't when someone's already tilting before the game even starts, and only tilts more and tilts others during the game. On the subject of the bug, you're the first person I've seen who's had this bug. I suspect it may relate to some other issues they've been having - maybe it'd help if you reported it in Report a Bug boards or submitted a ticket, but I'm not sure really what's going on, sorry :( I'm not even sure if chat restrictions are client or server enforced - which is really the first step in offering troubleshooting advice, and there's no way Riot's going to give *any* information on their punishment coding because someone would try to get around it with that sort of info I'm sure.
Real quick on the bug part: I actually did just report right now (now that I reminded myself to) and will try a live chat ticket tomorrow if I can. and on the games of being trolled in, the first three were well over 15 games (past what you said you could see) ago (I think the first couple were maybe 25-35 games or more ago, then one was like 18 games ago) one of those games I actually did admit that I deserved to be punished for it as that one wasnt a troll (again sorry for miswording it before) that was just a game where people were EXTREMELY TOXIC tword me for no reason despite me trying to be nice (cus i was doing horrid) and I lashed out lost my cool and called the instigator a "fucking asshole" and basically did flame him back in a sense, defensive or not In my other thread I did own up to that. and as for the uh, conformation bias thingy: again I really havent been loosing alot, or doing to horrid, ive lost a few games sure and knew it was my fault, or a combination of mistakes and was fine with it, but maybe there was just something about those four specific games (in the first three from the 10 game ban I actually won the game where I called somebody a fucking asshole, cant remember the other two though) so for me its not really about winning or losing or not climbing, I personally am not climbing (in ranked) because of two main reasons: A: I gotta learn how to counter pick and deal with being countered better than just "shit i got countered im just gunna hid under tower and ley my enemy free farm" and B: I have a lack of champs. I have to play A lot more both norms arams ranked whatever, and level up to get champ capsules and unlock better champions
Chermorg (NA)
: I think that's a good summary, yes. Think it of like unlocking a door to a house - two people with different amounts of furnishings will unlock the door to their new house at the same rate - but it'll take one a lot longer to move in :P
Chermorg (NA)
: I think the only requirement to unlock honor progress is to not be validly reported anymore. Even if you wouldn't really be gaining honors, you'll still *unlock* the ability to at the same rate as someone getting honored 4 per game. That person would just climb faster than the one not getting honored ever at all really. The unlock is only dependent on not behaving bad anymore to my knowledge.
So basically The unlock rate is _generally_ the same, but after say the player who doesnt get honored at all, and the player who gets 4per, the 4per will climb faster obviously over the non honored?
Rioter Comments
Chermorg (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=LogicalThinkTank,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0ax6jPUX,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-08T04:00:25.502+0000) > 1) I just got punished for three games where I lost my cool in which ONLY ONE I actually deserved to be punished for for calling somebody "a fucking asshole" (who was also a troll by the way) Feel free to post your chat logs to prove this then. > 2) You mention trying to be better, but had you read my post you wouldve noted two things A: How can I try and be positive when im restricted to ONLY THREE MESSAGES A GAME, which leads me to B: how can I try when there is a bug that will not give anymore chat messages throughout games as it says youll earn your next one at four minutes and 4 minutes comes and you dont get a message?. I mean, you don't have to be positive while on restriction.. just *not negative*. After your restriction, you instantly have free chat again - just don't be negative. > 3) You just said reports will result in a 2 week ban from league. Ok so what do you propose I do to avoid being reported by trolls then? Because these two punishments seem clearly automated with no human interaction, so what happens when Im reported for not talking, or trolling myself (but I cant explain my actions because of the bug) You cant even admit that this system is clearly broken and outdated? **Valid** reports will result in a 2 week ban. The system looks at your behavior. You will not be punished if you aren't being toxic in chat or intentionally feeding. > 4) "YOU are the problem with the games you're in. Your toxicity is the reason you are not climbing. You are losing games because you spend more time getting tilted over "it's always someone else's fault i don't deserve this" than you do playing. Lose the attitude and realize that YOU are the problem here if you want to climb." > > Im not going to flame you because Im not a rude person but I really am going to have to be blunt here and ask: did you even read my post? > Im not complaining about losing games, or mad that Im "not climbing" (I never even mentioned ranked nor climbing, I merely mentioned this game catering to those who ruin games irregardless of what type of game mode it is) I was complaing about a broken system that punished me over one game, yet fails to do anything about the people who cause players to act out in the first place. > > you even went onto to say Im the one being Toxic, except Im not. You **are** the one being toxic though. I'll admit you didn't ask for my advice on your games - I thought providing the truth here may help you understand how your toxicity is causing you to lose games. Just because you don't accept your toxicity doesn't change the fact that your attitude is honestly pretty piss poor. > you once told me you dont play ranked, understandable as to why you have no context here, but imagine for one second somebody dies 3 or four times, and you do give them pointers and try to be positive, but then they CONTINUE to die, continue to refuse to play with your team, are toxic tword you or continually and intentionally play horribly, and continually troll? I have never said that, and in fact 90% of my games are ranked games. You must be confusing me with someone else. If someone continues to die, I'll suggest they'll play safe, but **that's not trolling** and I won't start flaming/harassing them for it. We all have bad games - including you and me. > In all my FOUR (yes only four games Im being punished in total for) I was only "toxic" because I was a victim of people being more than just "bad at the game" these are players who went out of their way to personally attack me, personally troll me, feed, or even admit to not caring about the game and refusing to try. Nobody's trolled you. You're claiming trolls where they don't exist. You are claiming anyone who you feel has lost you the game is trolling, when in reality they're having bad games. This is where your problem lies - you refuse to accept **any** responsibility for losses and thus since you know if nobody's to blame then everyone is, you must find someone else to blame. You're calling people trolls/feeders to try and blame them for it just so you can feel confident that you are not at all part of the problem. I have seen multiple people with this attitude. One of them is my best friend. This attitude loses games, and once you realize that and improve you'll actually enjoy playing and start winning games again. > THATS FOUR GAMES out of EVERY game ive played. > And Those four games? are extreme cases, yes there are games where somebody is just being ass, and I mute and report them, and try to rally the rest of my team to do the same (in regards to muting them, because as long as the person isnt trolling and is just and asshole but they try to win, muting them does the trick) If one of those four games happened right after a punishment... which happened right after 3 of those games... then that's not "extreme", it's the norm for you. You fail to accept then maybe, just maybe, your behavior *has* changed and become more and more against the rules. > but my problem is this system that in four games I lost my cool due to people being BEYOND just toxic, but intentionally feeding, trolling and being downright toxic in all regards. which yes is RARE feeders and trolls are rare, those are literally the ONLY FOUR games I can say for a fact they werent just "bad at the game" You're claiming intentional feeding again, but I've looked at your recent games (the public statistics) and there was nowhere near anyone intentional feeding that I can find in your past 15 games or so. You're claiming intentional feeding to try to blame people for having a bad game. Your "facts" are not going to be trusted by anyone here as you're obviously in a state of emotional distress and unwilling to accept that you are incorrect here. Again, **you** are the problem - not others, not us, not people trying to help you. I snipped the rest (to avoid this reply being too long), but again, the problem here is **you**. You're trying to claim you're not toxic - yes, it is you. You're trying to claim you're only toxic when others start it, but again, they're just playing the best they can and having a bad game, again the problem is **you**. Until you accept that, your attitude will not improve, you will continue to lose games, and you are very likely to continue to be punished, because **your** attitude is the problem.
some out of order things: 1- regarding the chat logs I did, on another thread I thought you posted on it but upon seeing the thread I actually realize it wasnt you sorry about that. 2- on some of your points you mentioned I am being "toxic" and maybe I wasnt clear on this and sorry if I didnt make sense BUT IM NOT SAYING I WASNT TOXIC, I am admittedly saying for those games, I was toxic, HOWEVER I was toxic AS A RESULT of ending up being a victim of trolls/feeders/etc (in those four games) which you state "is the norm" for me, but it generally isnt, those four games just pushed me over the edge. 3- erm what game are you looking at in my past 15? the one on twisted treeline? Because I although it was clear cut "buy mobi items and run down and die on purpose" the yi did intentionally feed in the sense that he purposefully ignored warnings, pings, and me and my team mate trying to reason with him, and continually displayed the same behavior of running into them and dying (running into 1v3's, running into them thinking he can fight them despite being behind etc) that stuff is excuseable to "being bad" at early levels, but in ranked, thats common knowledge not to do that, and even if he didnt know, he willfully ignored the warnings and requests and continued to "feed" anyways. 4- on the trolls part: Im only claim trolls on the four games Ive been punished for. ive won and lost games before to what some actual toxic people who consider "trolls" ie: people just bad at the game (and ive lost a few games cus i sucked myself.. let me tell you first picking top nasus then having to face a jayce hurts my soul) 5- off topic kind of note: and what about the bug that is further restricting chat to only three messages a game? (after you use your third message it says next message wont be avail, until four mins in, and either 4 mins has passed or it comes and passes with no message)
Chermorg (NA)
: This hasn't been publicly stated, but I suspect you can work towards (or against) unlocking while you're on punishment still. If your behavior fully improves (let's say you're never even a slight bit toxic ever again), you'll unlock honor within a week or so after your punishment, then you can start the climb back from honor 0.
Another question relating to this: obviously riot doesnt give a 'time" when youll re unlock it, but does "unlocking" it work similar tword progressing in honor? As in uh... you gain progress tword leveling honor by 5 things 1-not being validly reported 2-being honored 3- being most honored with 2(3v3s) or 3/4(5v5's) honors 4-everyone honoring 5-Playing games and honoring people. So do those factors also take into account how fast (or slow) you unlock it, or is it just more like a "Hey he hasnt been bad for a while and been making an effort, time to unlock!"
Chermorg (NA)
: You didn't have one or two games you lost your cool. You had literally **just** been punished for losing your cool and you came back and instantly lost your cool again. That's not rare. That's common and expected - which is not okay when what is common and expected is you being toxic. Furthermore, it is expected that after a punishment, you'll be **trying** to be a good player. If you trying to be a good player involves you being toxic right after your last punishment, **it is obvious that punishment did not work** - hence why you're given a stronger punishment. Keep in mind any reports during or shortly after your current chat restriction are likely to result in a 2 week forced (and unpaid) vacation from League. More than likely, **multiple** other players reported you. Many times when people complain "oh the person who AFKed reported me" or "oh the other toxic person reported me" they're proven wrong by a Rioter who points out others reported you. Even so, it doesn't matter - your behavior is a problem regardless of if the person you were being toxic to reports you or whether someone else on your team reports you. Hey, on a completely blunt and you'll probably flame me for being this blunt towards you note: **YOU are the problem with the games you're in**. Your toxicity is the reason you are not climbing. You are losing games because you spend more time getting tilted over "it's always someone else's fault i don't deserve this" than you do playing. Lose the attitude and realize that **YOU** are the problem here if you want to climb. If you didn't read the above and want a nice version: Your attitude is a big impact in games. Games are won or lost all the time, **even with people who have 10+ deaths**, just because the team either bands together to win, or gets torn apart by one toxic player. You're being the toxic player tearing apart your team's chance of winning - however small you may think it is. Stop harassing others, stop blaming others, and start trying to be the positive force on your team - encouraging, uplifting, and nice. You'll find you'll win on average 20-30% more games than you currently are (not that your winrate will increase by that much, but every 5-7 losses you would've had, you'll win one because you're being more positive).
and on a secondary unrelated side question: With a chat restriction do all the games (10/25) have to be completed BEFORE you have a chance at unlocking honor progress again? or do you start working twords unlocking it right away?
Chermorg (NA)
: You didn't have one or two games you lost your cool. You had literally **just** been punished for losing your cool and you came back and instantly lost your cool again. That's not rare. That's common and expected - which is not okay when what is common and expected is you being toxic. Furthermore, it is expected that after a punishment, you'll be **trying** to be a good player. If you trying to be a good player involves you being toxic right after your last punishment, **it is obvious that punishment did not work** - hence why you're given a stronger punishment. Keep in mind any reports during or shortly after your current chat restriction are likely to result in a 2 week forced (and unpaid) vacation from League. More than likely, **multiple** other players reported you. Many times when people complain "oh the person who AFKed reported me" or "oh the other toxic person reported me" they're proven wrong by a Rioter who points out others reported you. Even so, it doesn't matter - your behavior is a problem regardless of if the person you were being toxic to reports you or whether someone else on your team reports you. Hey, on a completely blunt and you'll probably flame me for being this blunt towards you note: **YOU are the problem with the games you're in**. Your toxicity is the reason you are not climbing. You are losing games because you spend more time getting tilted over "it's always someone else's fault i don't deserve this" than you do playing. Lose the attitude and realize that **YOU** are the problem here if you want to climb. If you didn't read the above and want a nice version: Your attitude is a big impact in games. Games are won or lost all the time, **even with people who have 10+ deaths**, just because the team either bands together to win, or gets torn apart by one toxic player. You're being the toxic player tearing apart your team's chance of winning - however small you may think it is. Stop harassing others, stop blaming others, and start trying to be the positive force on your team - encouraging, uplifting, and nice. You'll find you'll win on average 20-30% more games than you currently are (not that your winrate will increase by that much, but every 5-7 losses you would've had, you'll win one because you're being more positive).
This is honestly the most white knighted riot supported laod of BS ive read and I honestly do respect and agree with most posts I see you post Chemorg I really do but this entire comment is so biased and ill thought out. 1) I just got punished for three games where I lost my cool in which ONLY ONE I actually deserved to be punished for for calling somebody "a fucking asshole" (who was also a troll by the way) 2) You mention trying to be better, but had you read my post you wouldve noted two things A: How can I try and be positive when im restricted to ONLY THREE MESSAGES A GAME, which leads me to B: how can I try when there is a bug that will not give anymore chat messages throughout games as it says youll earn your next one at four minutes and 4 minutes comes and you dont get a message?. 3) You just said reports will result in a 2 week ban from league. Ok so what do you propose I do to avoid being reported by trolls then? Because these two punishments seem clearly automated with no human interaction, so what happens when Im reported for not talking, or trolling myself (but I cant explain my actions because of the bug) You cant even admit that this system is clearly broken and outdated? 4) "YOU are the problem with the games you're in. Your toxicity is the reason you are not climbing. You are losing games because you spend more time getting tilted over "it's always someone else's fault i don't deserve this" than you do playing. Lose the attitude and realize that YOU are the problem here if you want to climb." Im not going to flame you because Im not a rude person but I really am going to have to be blunt here and ask: did you even read my post? Im not complaining about losing games, or mad that Im "not climbing" (I never even mentioned ranked nor climbing, I merely mentioned this game catering to those who ruin games irregardless of what type of game mode it is) I was complaing about a broken system that punished me over one game, yet fails to do anything about the people who cause players to act out in the first place. you even went onto to say Im the one being Toxic, except Im not. you once told me you dont play ranked, understandable as to why you have no context here, but imagine for one second somebody dies 3 or four times, and you do give them pointers and try to be positive, but then they CONTINUE to die, continue to refuse to play with your team, are toxic tword you or continually and intentionally play horribly, and continually troll? In all my FOUR (yes only four games Im being punished in total for) I was only "toxic" because I was a victim of people being more than just "bad at the game" these are players who went out of their way to personally attack me, personally troll me, feed, or even admit to not caring about the game and refusing to try. THATS FOUR GAMES out of EVERY game ive played. And Those four games? are extreme cases, yes there are games where somebody is just being ass, and I mute and report them, and try to rally the rest of my team to do the same (in regards to muting them, because as long as the person isnt trolling and is just and asshole but they try to win, muting them does the trick) but my problem is this system that in four games I lost my cool due to people being BEYOND just toxic, but intentionally feeding, trolling and being downright toxic in all regards. which yes is RARE feeders and trolls are rare, those are literally the ONLY FOUR games I can say for a fact they werent just "bad at the game" yet my rant is that this system, decides "hey he actually had to deal with inters/trolls/people who are more than just dicks, and players reported him for it, LETS PUNISH THE VICTIM!" thats my problem with this system is that im being punished for FOUR games out of the HUNDREDS ive played where Ive done exactly what youve said (and the games where I do continue to do exactly as you say) because I enjoy making peoples games better, and being able to tell them good job or say its ok that there are having a bad game, and joke around and have fun, but I along with many others dont enjoy being the victim of trolls then being punished because we called out a troll and reacted to them being assholes. EDIT: forgot to add: I really do respect what you try to do on the boards Chemorg, but I really have to ask you as an advisor and a person who obviously plays and enjoys league, Do you not see the issues Im trying to bring to the light, that the system is outdated, old, and broken (literally with the bug) and needs to be re looked at, esp. if riot really does care about player reform? Because my punishment aside, I continually see evidence about this system being too harsh, to automated, and then having a broken honor system on top of that that requires players to be "goody two shoes and avoid any and all reports" to takes months just to re unnlock it, and then become so close to being 2 again and one bad game they loose it all as if the 1000's of positive games meant nothing
Rioter Comments
: I just had to argue the semantics of "AFK" with someone.
Except technically he WAS NOT AFK... an ass yes, afk no.
Rioter Comments
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=LogicalThinkTank,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=e8vBzlNU,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-06-04T03:26:58.360+0000) > > My point more or less here is that Riot IMO should allow some form of anger release, rather than tell players to bottle it up and not go off on somebody (as long as they arent being to horrible of it) > > IMO: you should be allowed to say stuff like "dude you came top and let me die then got the kill please dont do that again" > and if they do it again "dude stop coming top or im reporting you for trolling" > > and if they do it AGAIN :"ok ive had enough of youre shit stop fucking coming top you idiot I dont want my lane getting fed" > > AND THEN if they continue doing it I personally believe you should be allowed to ask for reports at least once should they continue the behavior and both your team and the enemy team CAN see that the player is clearly trolling. (as for if they are just toxic, Id say Id personally would only allow asking for reports if they were toxic in all chat and post game lobbies) 1) If you must rage then just do it at the screen or shout in/punch a pillow or something that's not the chat box. Doing so allows you to freely vent your frustrations without jeopardizing your teams chances of success. 2) Calling for reports and threatening to report someone are both considered harassment, the former when used as a jumping off point for [further] poor behavior. Not only that but unless the enemy team is being super attentive of how an enemy player is playing they're most likely not gonna report since they have no way of knowing if what you say is actually true or not. 3) What good will yelling and raging at them do? Nothing, that's what. It's not gonna make them magically play better, in fact most times it will likely just make them play worse than they already are. 4) Asking them to stop with their behavior once or twice is fine but after that if it's clear that they're not gonna listen then just drop it, move on and try to focus on your own game instead of theirs while also remembering to report them after the game if they are actually breaking the Summoner's Code.
I can agree with all but the second one, again I did states its in my opinion, however, I still stand that calling for for reports if there is clear reason that they should be reported, should not be considered "toxic" if somebody runs down mid lane and ints with five swift boots, its safe to say they are trolling and that it should be fine to make sure or ask everyone in the game to report that person to ensure they dont ruin more games. Aswell as saying you will report them should they continue toxic behavior should not be toxic, If somebody comes to a lane and makes a bad play, then does it again when you asked them to not, then does it again, you should have the right to tell them you will report them if they dont cut it out, because at that point A: they are a troll and will continue to troll or B: they didnt realize what they were doing was wrong, and will realize what they are doing can be reported and will stop doing what they were doing to avoid being reported. And on the last part of your second point, that is why I said IF THE ENEMY can see the trolling, then it should be ok to ask the enemy team to report (IE: if somebody ints the enemy can see that BUT the enemy cant see a player being toxic in the team chat.) Either way the rant of this post is that, Riot shouldnt just hop on and ban the people who are the victims of trolls/feeders etc. unless they are toxic tword the point of slurs/racism/death threats etc. but thats my opinion.. because grouping the people who react to trolls and toxic players and throwing them in the same "these people are toxic" group as the ones who actually go out and are the root cause of what makes players tick in the first place seems really absurd. Like I said in my OP YES I shouldnt have called the guy a fucking asshole in game 2 BUT thats a result of him being well... a fucking asshole tword me. yeah that guy will get punished and so will I but the punishments shouldnt be equal in my opinion. not that league is real life but IMO it should be similar to something like say being punished for killing somebody but to a lesser extent because you only killed somebody because you were brainwashed into a cult and the cult leader made you kill them, both deserve punishment but you deserve less as a victim. but eh thats just my opinion.
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=LogicalThinkTank,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=e8vBzlNU,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-03T21:10:16.560+0000) > > And retaliation is fine, aka self defense, similar to the fact that you wouldn't let somebody punch you in the face without punching back. Except that this isn't real life, this is a video game. When you start arguing with another player you force your other teammates to deal with two raging knuckleheads rather than just one. In those situations it's better to just mute them, report them and move on rather than argue with them and decrease your teams chances of winning further. From the [Instant Feedback System FAQ](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/207489286-Instant-Feedback-System-FAQ-): >**WHY WAS I PUNISHED WHEN THE OTHER PERSON WAS WORSE OR STARTED IT!** >Simply speaking, retaliation is not an acceptable or justifiable behavior. An argument between two players can easily create a negative experience for the rest of the players in the game with you. Regardless of the other player’s actions, this does not justify your own behavior. You alone are responsible for your actions within the game.If you encounter a toxic player like this, the best option is to simply report their behavior and move on. >Reports are a vital piece to the puzzle. If you are not sure of what sort of behavior is reportable take a look at the [Reporting a Player FAQ](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/201752884-Reporting-a-Player) _________ > Similiar to a game I just played where I wanted to go off on zed (in a respectful manner) and try and reason with him that we shouldve gone for the enemy nexus when we had two of their inhibs and nexus turrets down, but this moron wanted to push and take the third inhib and tower rather than pick them off and push nexus resulting us in losing the game because of an idiot. A shame that happened but perhaps he thought applying split-push pressure was better than risking a failed game-ending play. > or the fact that I had to deal with my adc and top constantly flaming me for being the one dying in teamfights (so they could get fed) even with muting them, I still see the barrage of insults post game, and get flack from other team mates i havent muted. I don't know why the mute button doesn't also apply to post-game as well aside from technical reasons, but in those cases it's best to just report their behavior and then leave the lobby as quickly as possible rather than sticking around to listen to them yell and rage at you. > Maybe the root of toxic players is ranked, because in draft/arams/normals Ive never seen this level of toxcity from other players but once I hit thirty and started ranked I get flamed for giving up first blood on accident I don't play ranked so I couldn't tell you if that's true or not, but toxicity exists in all game modes (some more than others). It wouldn't surprise me that much if it was true though since ranked is a more high stakes/pressure game mode than things like draft or co-op vs. ai.
My point more or less here is that Riot IMO should allow some form of anger release, rather than tell players to bottle it up and not go off on somebody (as long as they arent being to horrible of it) IMO: you should be allowed to say stuff like "dude you came top and let me die then got the kill please dont do that again" and if they do it again "dude stop coming top or im reporting you for trolling" and if they do it AGAIN :"ok ive had enough of youre shit stop fucking coming top you idiot I dont want my lane getting fed" AND THEN if they continue doing it I personally believe you should be allowed to ask for reports at least once should they continue the behavior and both your team and the enemy team CAN see that the player is clearly trolling. (as for if they are just toxic, Id say Id personally would only allow asking for reports if they were toxic in all chat and post game lobbies)
Xidphel (NA)
: Except, retaliation is NOT self-defense. As I said, MUTING is self-defense. I do agree that muting should be carried into post-game chat. However, seeing as it took a while to get pre/post-game chat into logs due to technical issues, same might be true for mutes.
Thats what Im saying is that, its so inconsistent. I cant simply mute a player because then they get the enemy or my team to start flaming me then I face two options: defend myself respectfully as I can (arguments shouldn't be considered toxic if they are respectful unlike my self admitted "you fucking asshole" game) and face getting punished for being negative as a result of having terrible team mates or B: Risk getting mass reported which triggers the automatic system to chat restrict me/ban me based on performance laning patterns etc. or amount of reports. personally Id rather take my chances with the first one, because SOMETIMES you can win the argument and convince them youre not trolling, youre just bad etc. and avoid being reported. Where as simply mutng everyone and letting them report me for god knows what, not only prevents me from getting honor but triggers the system to punish me. (even if I can appeal it, Ive seen evidence that riot still wont restore honor even if its a false positive)
Xidphel (NA)
: Problem is, you still retaliated. That's on you. If that person was reported (and you need only 1 report) then they'll get their due. The best you can do is take a break when you feel you'Re about to tilt.
And retaliation is fine, aka self defense, similar to the fact that you wouldn't let somebody punch you in the face without punching back. Similiar to a game I just played where I wanted to go off on zed (in a respectful manner) and try and reason with him that we shouldve gone for the enemy nexus when we had two of their inhibs and nexus turrets down, but this moron wanted to push and take the third inhib and tower rather than pick them off and push nexus resulting us in losing the game because of an idiot. or the fact that I had to deal with my adc and top constantly flaming me for being the one dying in teamfights (so they could get fed) even with muting them, I still see the barrage of insults post game, and get flack from other team mates i havent muted. Maybe the root of toxic players is ranked, because in draft/arams/normals Ive never seen this level of toxcity from other players but once I hit thirty and started ranked I get flamed for giving up first blood on accident
Xidphel (NA)
: >Riot shouldnt punish the victims of toxcity, they should punish those who instigate it. They punish people who are toxic. Not those who defend themselves. In this scenario, defense is not talking back as it generates MORE toxicity. That's MORE of a negative experience as a whole. Defense is STOPPING that and the way to do that is MUTING.
Even though riot themselves says that users shouldnt have to rely on a mute button (which I used) to avoid toxcity and as a defense. Riot has stated they want people to not be toxic in the first place and had somebody not been toxic in the first place I would not have ended up with a negative mood because of a troll/toxic person/feeder
: be happy then didn't ban you that the punishment you actually deserve from a single line of chat
Didnt know calling somebody a fucking asshole warranted a ban nowadays?
: Please, if you're going to report someone or mute someone. Just. Report/Mute. Them. Stop talking about it. Stop talking about their poor behavior. Don't taunt them with the system by saying things like, "enjoy your ban" or "please give me some evidence to report you".
didnt know "please give me evidence to report you" is toxic. taunting isnt toxic, now had I said "please report xxxx" I could understand. Either way keep in mind the context off all of this? is dealing with intentional feeders, trolls, and other flamers, and riot just expects me to mute them, (which I do) but then let them convince my team to flame me and report me and not defend myself and risk getting banned for inting when I just had a bad game? thats what riot doesnt get, they dont take context into account at all. Riot shouldnt punish the victims of toxcity, they should punish those who instigate it. By punishing the people who react tword it and defend themselves in a sense, just ruins the community as a whole, as is telling players "hey if you defend yourself against toxic assholes youre also a toxic asshole" which is bullshit. You can even see evidence of this in game three where I was pretty "normal" up until I told players I was muting and reporting them because they attacked me out of nowhere.
Rioter Comments
: PSA to teens: Defensive driving is fucking important, so don't treat it like a joke
This is precisely why even if I have a green light, I either A: blow through it with the SPEED IS KEY mindset to avoid getting T-boned, or B: slow down and check all lanes before proceeding (it helps that I also used to drive an ambulance around, and defensive driving really helps in that vehicle)
Swegmec (NA)
: It took me 5 days to unlock honor after I hit honor 0 so you were doing something wrong.
but how much DID you play? thats the problem, if you dont play alot and no life it, it takes ages
: A PSA from someone who has reformed: The honor grind is not impossible
its not that its impossible, its that it takes AGES to first unlock your honor (no set time either bc rito "doesnt want you to have a goal other than being positive") THEN AGES in between checkpoints It took me over 1-2 months to unlock then 3-4 weeks for C-1 and another 3-4 weeks for C-2 Still at honor 0 But its not even the fact that im missing out on free stuff, its that fact that honor is so stupid now. You can no longer honor your entire team, which means for you to be honored you either have to A: be a god and carry your team and get a pentakill with 25 bajillion CS and win the game. or B: beg for it. plus you cant even honor enemies anymore
archerno1 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=LogicalThinkTank,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ayi9vgoH,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-30T18:33:37.410+0000) > > Thats the type of ego this system would get around, because if you wont listen to peers on how to do better (like not building AP vayne) > > MAYBE you need riot (the creators of the game) to interject and tell you. > > Also that would be the whole point of this system, people like you can be free to refuse to take good advice (aswell as bad or neutral advice) but if the advice IS GOOD and you still refuse to listen and instead mute and report people for trying to help, then they have the option to report you for this BUT you wont get severely punished (unless you kept doing it over and over and over and over and over and over again) Im not gonna listen to anyone. Ill learn by playing. From experience. From failure. From losing. If i decide to build AP Vayne and it doesnt work, ill try something else. Ill keep trying different things till i find what works myself. Refusing to play the way someone else asks me to should NEVER be counted as valid report. If i decide to play full attack speed on hit Singed, thats my decision. I dont need you telling me that i should build him AP , or tanky or whatever. Ill fail that game, i will fail next game and i will keep failing till i decide for myself that it doesnt work. I also wont tell others how to play. I wont pretend to be be my teammates coach. People should ONLY ever focus on their own gameplay. Let people learn from their own mistakes.
"m not gonna listen to anyone." but youd listen to riot games if enough people were sick and tired of you refusing to get better at the game right? This isnt designed for the player that refusing to listen (unless of course they are being toxic about it in which case its a toxicity issue) The system would be designed for if you continually refuse to listen and continually dont try and do better.\ "I also wont tell others how to play. I wont pretend to be be my teammates coach. People should ONLY ever focus on their own gameplay. Let people learn from their own mistakes." Except this is a team based game, YOU HAVE to play as a team to win, and help each other out rather than ignore them or be toxic
: As mentioned by quite a few people, and Riot has refused to comment on the matter. 1: You are not obligated to participate in the game. 2: You are not obligated to participate as a team. 3: You are more than welcome to leave the game, thus punishing yourself, if you aren't enjoying your experience. 4: You are entitled to continue playing in the match, as long as you avoid afk detection. 5: As long as you are not verbally toxic, in ANY WAY, SHAPE, or FORM, you're about as good as gold my friend. After all, verbal toxicity is worse than physical toxicity. (Once again, proven by Riot) So if you are in a match where you feel your teammates are playing like shit (relatively decent minority of matches), all you have to do is say hey, well if you aren't going to participate in the game, well neither am I. And all you have to do at that point, is don't talk to anyone, avoid the afk detection (just periodically move your champion around, or go to a lane and farm, farm in the jungle) If there is a team fight detrimental to the outcome of the match, heed no attention to it. And if they ask what you're doing, you tell them riots rules are you are not obligated to participate in the game, and if they have a problem with that, that they can see if riot will address that issue. :S
actually all of your points are things riot punishes, under the basis of trolling/ intentionally avoiding afk detection but refusing to play the game. 1- actually you are 2- again actually you are, even if you win you can be reported for never playing as a team member 3- yeah sure you can leave, but riot will ban you eventually and youre ruining a game when you leave 4- no, no youre not... 5- actually both are pretty bad...
: i think this may be the dumbest idea i read this morning. a report option for people who refuse to be bossed around by edgelords. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
ill just copy paste this in reply to another person like you "And you are the type of player I would hope a system like this reaches! Rather than you being a negative nancy and having "advice=toxic im muting you" if you constantly refuse good advice, that would better your play-style and help you from making the same msitakes, because you have this ego where you think anyone giving advice is suddenly toxic, Riot would interject and tell you "hey you building AP items on vayne isnt a good idea, and rather than punish you for trolling we are giving you a chance to alter your playstyle so you can win games"
: Me: "Build tear on Rengar" My rationally thinking teammate: "No?" Me: "HOW DARE YOU NOT TAKE MY ADVICE REPORTED" See how this concept is more flawed than humankind?
just gunna copy pasta my AP vayne example here : " - about a minute ago The system would have to be designed to ignore the false positives like that. The idea is for a system to detect when legitimate advice was given (like not to build full AP on vayne) the advice was intentionally ignored ("Nah my full AP vayne wins me games trust" vayne goes 0/12/5, "sorry guys had a bad game") and that AP vayne player continually ignores advice like : "hey vayne just trying to help you out in saying try building full AD, full AP on vayne doesnt work and that could be why youre having a tough time in lane" then if vayne were to proceed and ignore the advice "no, dont be toxic, muted and reported/ No AP vayne is good I refuse to try anything else/ Im higher rank thank you I know how to AP vayne" THEN it would be a legit report which again WONT PUNISH the player, instead it will prevent them from being reported for inting/trolling/etc. and have Rito give them the advice them selves with a warning that IF they continue playing this way (dependent on Q type) they would face punishments. Obviously a new player might try AP vayne in bot games and thats fine, but somebody in ranked should know better than to do AP vayne, but if they do it and are innocent of trolling or intentionally doing it despite knowing its bad, THIS option is a middleground to help players get better."
: Advice is exactly that, an advice. You give it to a player and they decide whether to listen or not. No one in this game is obligated to listen to advices. Players are free to decide if they agree with them or not. What you propose, is that anyone who just says "I know I am right, because I said so", to be able to legitimately report someone who would answer to them "nuh, I like the way I do it better". No.
The system would have to be designed to ignore the false positives like that. The idea is for a system to detect when legitimate advice was given (like not to build full AP on vayne) the advice was intentionally ignored ("Nah my full AP vayne wins me games trust" vayne goes 0/12/5, "sorry guys had a bad game") and that AP vayne player continually ignores advice like : "hey vayne just trying to help you out in saying try building full AD, full AP on vayne doesnt work and that could be why youre having a tough time in lane" then if vayne were to proceed and ignore the advice "no, dont be toxic, muted and reported/ No AP vayne is good I refuse to try anything else/ Im higher rank thank you I know how to AP vayne" THEN it would be a legit report which again WONT PUNISH the player, instead it will prevent them from being reported for inting/trolling/etc. and have Rito give them the advice them selves with a warning that IF they continue playing this way (dependent on Q type) they would face punishments. Obviously a new player might try AP vayne in bot games and thats fine, but somebody in ranked should know better than to do AP vayne, but if they do it and are innocent of trolling or intentionally doing it despite knowing its bad, THIS option is a middleground to help players get better.
archerno1 (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=LogicalThinkTank,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ayi9vgoH,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-05-30T07:40:19.776+0000) > > And you are the type of player I would hope a system like this reaches! > > Rather than you being a negative nancy and having "advice=toxic im muting you" > > if you constantly refuse good advice, that would better your play-style and help you from making the same msitakes, because you have this ego where you think anyone giving advice is suddenly toxic, Riot would interject and tell you "hey you building AP items on vayne isnt a good idea, and rather than punish you for trolling we are giving you a chance to alter your playstyle so you can win games" Just because you believe advice you are giving is good it doesnt make it good advice. Why should i take advice from someone i consider less or equally skilled? If you were better than him and knew better you wouldnt be same elo as him. Why should anyone listen to you?
Thats the type of ego this system would get around, because if you wont listen to peers on how to do better (like not building AP vayne) MAYBE you need riot (the creators of the game) to interject and tell you. Also that would be the whole point of this system, people like you can be free to refuse to take good advice (aswell as bad or neutral advice) but if the advice IS GOOD and you still refuse to listen and instead mute and report people for trying to help, then they have the option to report you for this BUT you wont get severely punished (unless you kept doing it over and over and over and over and over and over again)
: Being lucky only carries you one game at a time. Sort of like how you can sometimes flip heads on a coin three times in a row despite the odds saying it's 50/50. But flip the coin 1000 times and you'll find that those odd bits of luck will have a negligible effect, the result will be something extremely close to 50/50. MMR is suppose to function based on the *average* performance over many games so that the effect of luck is negligible. In your example, an AP vayne might get lucky and win a game or two but over the long term (heck, even medium term) they will certainly lose more than they win because of their decisions.
Yes but in that AP vaynes head, they think it works fine, they mute anyone who tries to tell them otherwise. They arent intentionally trolling or trying to ruin games, because they think ap vayne is god tier. This system would be designed around helping that AP vayne get past their ego to win games and do better rather than punish them and let them stay at the bottom.
: But how is the game going to actually detected it? What if people just report everyone after game for refusing to follow advice? Maybe my advice was a ping at Baron, never typed a word. Team doesn't do it. That's all well and good, but how is the system supposed to detect and confirm advice? How is it supposed to check and confirm that is the same reason after multiple games. What if they changed that one thing after the first match, and then something new was advised in the next game? Fixed in the next game and someone else gives advice on something. I have now been reported in 3 games for needing/not following advice, time for a punishment even though it was all different.
That would be up to riot to figure out, obviously just like with bans/toxicity its a case by case basis, it would have to be designed around the idea that although a player isnt trolling, they dont care about getting better at the game, or arent getting better and somehow the system would have to be designed to detect that the reason is because they are repeating mistakes and/or not following advice BUT not trolling This would be designed as a way to help players learn, rather than them being reported for trolling and banned.
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LogicalThinkTank

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