SatomiKun (EUW)
: I don't really understand the problem with vector cast and why it is considered clunky. Didn't play Taliyah, but I played a fair amount of Viktor and his E is using the vector system as well. And I never really had problems aiming it. Maybe I am overlooking something here, though. Would be great if someone could explain it to me.
I too play a lot of Viktor and I think Vector Casting works well for his E (even if it took me forever to consistently hit anything with it). However Taliyahs W is a totally different ability. With Viktor your drawing a line a on ground, with Taliyah your tossing Champions around. That extra bit of control is probably very important in throwing people in just the right way. Although I never played much Taliyah so I don't really know for sure which is better.
: I think that Gragas needs to have slow removed from his noncharged Q in order to not be so safe and reliable. He is already strong and he doesn't need any buffs.
I would kinda agree, it is annoying to get 60% slowed from such a wide fast ability.
: I hate the stigma against playing meta champions.
I personally see nothing bad about playing meta champs. The meta is typically changing due to either Riot changing it with buffs or nerfs or players figuring out counters. That means that the best players and the people that consistently do well are adaptable and good at a variety of Champions. If people refuse to play meta then they are simply putting themselves at a disadvantage. Especially if they also choose really weak champs. That is a part of the game whether or not people chose to accept it.
: ADCs have too much impact.
The ways in which a jungler carries or a Midlaner carries are not the same as ADC's as least not typically. A jungler carries though ganking and snowballing lanes and themselves. They control the early game typically. A Midlaner that is an assassin yet fails to assassinate a high value target has typically failed, wether they live or die. A high damage mid Mage can often carry a fight just fine after an ADC has died. If your losing games where your top and mid were really fed then they probably messed up later on. Either by dieing too much with little gains or by not playing to your teams win conditions.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Ralanr (NA)
: You're honestly shouting at a wall. People in general will never consider tanks as requiring any respectable level of skill for one reason. "Why take the hit when you can dodge?" I see this all the time in games and media. The easiest and most common way to showcase how "skilled" someone is, is to have them dodge and evade effectively. Popular culture respects quick reflexes over sacrifice and self inflicted risk. And it's much easier to make someone feel awesome by dodging bullets than by being bullet proof. Sure being bullet proof is cool, but after a while people will get bored. People rarely get bored of dodging because it's an active thing. This isn't a league problem, this is just a game problem because it's pretty much universally seen as "if you're not good, go tanky to compensate" It honestly annoys me a bit in games. We praise offensive play and shame or mock heavy defensive play. Claiming that defense is a lack of skill. This is only in video games or games that don't require physical exertion from my observation though. Because in actual sports, defensive plays can be better praised (but they can still be looked down upon because they'll be less risky). Being tanky will always be seen as braindead by the general populace.
It's really a cultural thing more than anything else. Or at least a Western thing. If somebody makes a mistake trying to do something a common response is, "Well at least they tried". People are encouraged to be proactive and the more proactive they seem the better. It probably also has to do with the fact that when a tank or support does their job right it isn't noticeable. Keeping people from dealing damage or zoning them out is as noticeable as blowing them up.
: The tanks who aren't Sej/Zac/Mao need to be changed too
Honestly I don't really enjoy playing tanks as much as I used to. It feels like an arms race between damage dealers and tanks. If tanks are ahead of the curve they become unkillable raid bosses that will deal a buttload of damage and then walk away from a fight whenever they want. If damage dealers get ahead of the curve then tanks become flys to the swatter.
: Draven was a champ that was 100% skill dependant, the better you were the stronger you were, the worse you were the weaker you were, now you can just buy death dance and play how ever you want, that damage reduction is just broken, you dont need to be good to play draven now, you just need to be able to click BUY when selecting death dance.
There isn't any damage reduction on deaths dance...
Rigaroom (NA)
: "Hi new players in Doom Bots, oh you are new to this game, let's flame the **** out of you"
I haven't tried it this time around. What I remember from last time is play the Teemoing and fail. Or play the normal mode and have allies choose difficulty of 100 and fail. There was no way to reliably play against an opponent that you stood a chance against
: why would you flash mastery after killing opponents when you can flash mastery after opponents killing you
Your right, how stupid of me. I've been thinking about this wrong all along.
Doodlzzz (NA)
: It's YASUO!! not spelled YASOU yas - ou - o: YASUO plssss
Maybe I like spelling it like Yasou
Lugg (NA)
: Yas is still a bad matchup early, even for Malz. Until you have your ult, he can all in you at will and keep you pushed while he roams.
Yes, Yasou will kill Malz without ult. However Malz clears waves very fast with EW.
Kayah (NA)
: Why would i learn a champion just to counter pick another champion, who may not even be in my lane? P.S. It's Yasuo, not Yasou
I don't know maybe you enjoy Malzahar? Also thanks for pointing that out, whoops.
: i played vs him top lane last night... i was maokai he was annoying early but as soon as i had {{item:3025}} he left lane and went else where
I haven't actually played that match up since Maokai got updated. Is that how it typically goes?
Rioter Comments
: "being good at the game doesnt give you the right to be a shitty human being"
Does it count as being shitty if you flash your mastery icon after killing opponents?
: Gargoyle's Stoneplate does not perform as described / needs more clarity
Bought this item for the first time the other day when I got low on health I popped it. I felt rather cheated by the pathetic amount of health I got.
: Nop, i actually played adc graves a lot and his laning phase is the only problem
Gotta get yourself an aggressive support like Leona, or a defensive support support like Soraka to enable you. Karma also works well because she can help make up for your lack of range while having good CC plus her Sheild.
Elikain (EUNE)
: That doesn't make him terrible. Sure, trading with someone in between other targets that stop his buckshot is bad enough but he scales insanely with crit and other usual Marksman items. Plus, his own passive makes him super tanky against physical damage so he can take a few hits to properly set up a fight. And Smoke Screen helps at making the enemy Marksman move out of their position. Graves, in my opinion, shares the same problem with Morgana. She's still a mid lane mage with insane scaling but her kit, even though super strong on its own, is just not suited to fight mono on mono against the usual mid laners of today. So she's now considered a support, despite still being able to play mid with no problems whatsoever.
His passive may give him great tank stats but it's difficult to get that passive stacked if he blows up too fast from being so short range. I love Graves and have tried playing him ADC a couple of times. Even if I snowball lane phase having the only ADC on your team be so short range ends up feeling like a hindrance later in the game. And that only gets worse as opponents get more items.
Sasogwa (EUW)
: Small changes that could make Nasus great
I could see changes like these creating a Support AP-Tank Nasus for the AS slow plus armor shred.
Rioter Comments
: We have lost tons of stats in HP, lost a reliable early rush item that was the only thing keeping tanks viable in the jungle and top lane, and Riot has given birth to the most demonically broken tank since Poppy: Sejuani. I like our new MR items, but I honestly wanted more items to counter attack speed shredders and AD spellcasters.
Riot took HP from items yes but also gave them more Armor and Magic Resist to compensate. The idea being to move them more towards resistances and less massive amounts of health. Riot knows that the new sun fire isn't doing well and they have said that they are looking into the tanks that are suffering the most from its nerf. Sunfire was a crutch that many tanks relied heavily on. Riot will probably look to make the struggling tanks not need sunfire so much.
: {{champion:119}}
The Draven would need to either have a lead or play really well.
: Warwick is hella fun but unpopular opinion i dont think he balanced with his w doing so much attack speed just for enemy reaching 50% Hp idk why people max e second when w is attack speed which means better damage and healing with your passive below 50% hp doing es job while you can still use E on a slightly higher cooldown.
E is maxed second because W is more situational and is more useful in mid game teamfights than the slight boost to attack speed granted from W.
: They did a decent job with Poppy and Sion, everything else was either underwhelming or absolutely garbage. Ryze: Original Ryze (as much as people may have disliked him) was the healthiest of them all in the trilogy of remakes. The current iteration requires either a completely stupid opponent or Ryze to get ahead via jungle ganks to be remotely effective... otherwise you just spam spells that do literally no damage and have an ult that is not overly satisfying at best. Kog'Maw: The rework that Riot had to revert. That says it all... although I personally liked it and thought that was one of those champions that required you to end the game early or watch out. Kog wasn't an auto-win champ, but certainly could demolish teams late game. Morde: Absolutely awful. Morde mains pretty much weap everytime it's brought up. Trying to force a melee champ bot lane was a mistake, giving him a pet dragon was---creative---but a mistake overall as it didn't compensate for his odd nerfs and overall playstyle change. Mordekeiser has no room in league of mobility unless he has good damage, which he no longer has. Garen: A gimmicky ult and armor shred (which actually came later on) with his spin, combined with an odd farming tool to stack armor on his W. Garen's issues are still many. I saw that the number one Garen player in NA has decided to give up on his champion after years of play simply because it became too frustrating. Skarner: Was overtuned to a ridiculous end for a week (65% winrate) then hotfixed... and the list goes on...
To be fair to Riot, Sion and Poppy were reworks while Morde, Skarner, Koggles and Malz were Updates. Two totally different kinds of projects with vastly different resources and goals.
: Am I the only one loving riot's communication ATM?
I think they had a staff meeting of some kind.
Rioter Comments
Sciela (NA)
: It's like, say you're learning the alphabet. They'd cover A-E one day, F-J another day, and so on until the end. You'd spend an entire hour learning A-E the first day, and then the second day you'd do a quick review of A-E and then learn the second set. After learning the whole set, you'd do a quick review of all of it, and then get to testing. That's how schools all teach more or less. Now, assuming you don't zone out, aren't high, and pay attention, you should know the material covered.
: > [{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HmRoyjue,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-05-01T11:41:50.489+0000) > > Aqua from Konosuba, a really dumb clumsy spoiled bitch who is a lot of fun to watch ^^ That's Aqua? she looks nothing like I remembered.
It's a specific shot before they go back to their typical style.
: So fun knowing he's going to be dancing at turret while a DoT auto-farms for him. SO FUN getting clicked on with no counter-play for the entirety of your health bar. You're TOTALLY speaking for everyone.
You could never just farm with Old Malzahar's DOT until mid game, with by that point every Midlane Mage is doing that kind of thing. You had to last hit minions with Malzahar's crappy auto to get almost anything.
: Except that they are not, and that that is the purpose of Lifesteal - it enables carries to take down tanks with sustained damage while retaining a weakness to burst and interruption.
It enables AD carries to take down tanks, doesn't do anything for AP carries.
KnifeCat (OCE)
: Rengar's ult should be renamed "Thrill of the zoning"
To be fair while enemies do get a lot of warning I still prefer it to his old ult. Ohwhatsthatonmyhead and I'm dead.
: Poor Skarner shall remain forgotten it seems :(
I remembered Skarner I just didn't want my post to go on for too long. It was already quite long.
: > [{quoted}](name=WinTheWarOnPants,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Oy3gNcBy,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-04-25T21:29:29.650+0000) > > as far as giving him a gimick they didn't...? i guess, unless you consider the forced life steal on his W and insane AD he gets from his passive.** It doesn't make any sense. He spins his axe, and that makes him heal a fuk ton? ** Why Renekton spins with full fury and heals? Why Anivia gets stuck into Cait traps? Why you can ignite Brand? Why you can blind Lee Sin? Why Tryndamere relax and heals himself? Why Garen's ult calls a giant sword from the sky if he hates and doesn't use any magic? Reality does not matter, gameplay does.
Garen's ult is easily explained. It is not magic he calls down, its justice.
LankPants (OCE)
: How did Talon's rework redefine his playstyle? Before he was a super bursty mobile assassin who typically controlled the game with his early dominance via roams, now he's a super bursty mobile assassin who typically controls the game with his early dominance via roams. Talon is still basically the same as he was in terms of playstyle. Rengar's also destined to be a toxic lump of trash until Riot removes his instakill. He's a champ who's very in need of a large scale rework eventually.
His update made him better at roaming. It also made him not a pick if better than Zed champ. He does some things better than Zed and some worse. Overall he might play similar but that's the point of an update. To focus the champ more.
: dont forget kog'maw
The update that broke all on-hit items. Yep I remember.
VulDread (NA)
: Why Darius update "succeeded," was, rather than to try and force uniqueness on the champ, they focused on their core ideas. The more similar a rework is to their predecessor, the better it is (generally). That's why the Yorick rework, is, for me, a total failure
The new Yorick is much healthier and more enjoyable to play against. That being said he lost most of the things that defined him before. ( I hated laning against the bugger but I do feel your pain. Rip Shen and Malz.)
: What is that from?
It's from a picture of Pantheon calling upon the Gods to smite Red buff in the most awesome way possible.
: Personally I think that Darius's Q heal is a little bit too forgiving in how you achieve maximum healing, but it's not to say he's poorly designed, just that one particular aspect seems like it's a little bit too easy for the potential power. That said, you bring up a very important point which I find myself having to constantly bring up more and more as riot reworks champions. It seems to be a change in their design philosophy, which is "...lost participation in fights." and "...lost input." Riot seems to think that players want these kind of effectively random events in the game which can't be manipulated. Like the dragon types, malzahar's W effectiveness, and garen's villain system. It might seem like some cool mechanic which adds more to the champion, but in reality it just makes playing them feel bad, because part of the game is completely out of the hands of the player. This applies to a lesser degree to skillshots, but the player still has the ability to manipulate the game by predicting the enemy's movements, where as these mechanics that they keep adding are 100% situational, and give the players no ability to compensate for them. Even worse when the entirety of the kit is designed around this type of mechanic in the rework {{champion:90}} ... shame on Repertoir and anyone who approved the design. smh This pattern actually explains really well, why you see a champion like malzahar more popular post-rework in jungle or support, and always rushing {{item:3116}}, because those are the only things by which they can increase the control over their W's effectiveness.
I can somewhat understand some of the things Riot is going for like dragons, so that every games dragon situation doesn't feel exactly the same. However I do not think player agency should be taken away from Champions. People complain about old Malz because all he did was throw his abilities at people, but the rework didn't change that, in fact it took away a skill shot and made his other skill shot faster. Now Malz has less to do. But I do think that player agency is very important when talking about the updates. There are a lot of interesting things that can be done with a champ but they should always try to not take away player agency in champion ability desicion making.
: I think a huge part of rework discussion needs to be properly defining successful reworks and failed reworks. For instance, I would say that the Malzahar rework was a success. Pre-rework he lacked a real identity, now he is the minionmancer of midlane. I understand that he's horribly weak atm, but thats a seperate issue entirely and one that will eventually shift due to buffs/nerfs, new items, new champs, etc. Olaf, Alistar, Rumble, and Diana are somewhat weak atm, and they certainly don't need reworks. Imo, the only reworks that actually failed were Kog rework (since they reverted it), Morde rework (since hes back to being a solo laner instead of a bot laner as was intended), and the 2015 Ryze rework (since Riot decided he needed a new one in 2016).
I don't agree. Champion Updates aren't reworks and aren't made in a vacuum. They If an update alienates its old player base then it wasn't successful in updating the champ. Most pre-update Malzahar player, myself included, did not want a minionmancer. Instead of being updated to do more things that Malzahar played liked doing his identity was changed. A similar argument could be made for Graves. He can no longer be played bot or in a similar fashion to how he used to be played. More goes into if a rework fails than if the champ was unbalanceable.
magewick (NA)
: Honestly, the only reason why he "succeeded" was because he had ridiculous numbers on rework and was allowed to keep most of that power. Garen's numbers were far too low on rework to compare while mordekaiser and skarner were nerfed multiple times. If darius's passive gave less ad and garen's nemesis gave more damage, we would be sitting here talking about how garen's rework was a success and darius's was a failure.
I don't think, even if overtuned, Garen's update would be thought of as a success. His kit fights itself and lacks synergy throughout while being very binary. His passive encourages running away but his E makes you want to stay in a fight. His most effective play pattern involves jumping out of a bush to 100-0 someone while their silenced since he has no reliable way to engage. One he uses Q and E all he can do is auto awkwardly till one comes back up.
agbudar (NA)
: i agree with most points. but i don't agree with Darius being healthier perse. Darius has the same problem atm as Yassuo once you mastered him the enemy has no say in the matter you are gonna get fucked, and at that point the only thing that works is a champion with better stats. in Yasuo's toplane case {{champion:83}} who simply Q's him with undying grasp and with that outtrades him most of the time, especially if you get your sheen. but anyone else gets fukked over. in the end the skill ceiling of champions like darius and Yassuo dont allow for interactive gameplay. Darius has barely any strategic skill ceiling if you are ahead you utterly decimate your opponent if you are behind you are utterly useless. Although i think that has more to do with his stupid power curve, which is almost impossible to play around if Darius has a half decent team on his side. there is a reason why {{champion:161}} {{champion:202}} have barely received nerfs or buffs, because no matter how good you are at these champions you never gain full controll of your lane unless you are way ahead. it means that besides your tactical skill with these champions you also need strategic skill in order to succeed and keep succeeding. the old {{champion:90}} was very much the same in that respect, you could not just utterly decimate your oponent if you got 1-3 kills they still had the ability to come back. {{champion:122}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:105}} if these guys get 1 or 2 kills on you .. well its gg for that lane
I will agree that Darius is a pain to play against if your Melee and even more so if you play a tank. However I do not agree that playing against Darius is binary. It might not be fun but there are options, like staying away, playing safe in lane, utilizing slows and stuns to keep him from moving. I'm sorry if my post came off as saying Darius is perfection cause I don't think that. Rather what I meant was his update succeded because it made Darius able to do more things that Darius players wanted to do rather than changing the champ or giving him some weird gimmick as so many other champ updates have done.
: yes The Darius update took what was already there and played it up in a way that feels good for the player and more fair for enemies. Updates that take champs in new directions don't work because they try to make massive shifts to play style while keeping a good portion of their current kit intact (see Malzahar), or they put some arbitrary limiter on the kit like Skarner spires and the villain passive. The intentions of the changes are far too large than they have the resources for in a class update and that's why these 'gimmick' reworks fail miserably
That is a great summary of what I was trying to say!
Rioter Comments
: Can someone give me some tips to fight Yasuo?
Pick Darius and make him cry. That match is swingy but starts out in Darius's favor. I would tell you more but I don't play either champ much so my knowledge is limited. I would say do Darius things to Yasou. If your playing Mid Malz used to be really good into him. He is still ok but you have to play passive until you have your ult. Also rush Rylais then get either a Morrello or Liandries. After that whatever you want. Yas can only windwall your Q, and the Rylais will slow him enough to have you monsters eat him to death. Just be careful not to over extend if your ahead. The enemy jungled showing up to gank while your over half way is almost certain doom.
: You've left your adc to 1v2 because​ you didn't like him? That's trolling
You don't leave them during laning phase, you just don't follow them around or do anything with them in mid or late game. The support needs to stay in botlane if nothing else for the EXP, but as a support you can and should roam somewhat even during laning phase.
: At that point cause I didn't like what he said I trolled him and increased our chance to lose
I've done that kind of thing before in frustrating games where I'm playing support. The sup doesn't have to help the ADC, there are 3 other people to help. I'm not gonna waste my time supporting an ADC that is being a jerk.
: Supports not hitting the minions is something I cover in my supporting basics guide video... Its long, has no music, and is a little bit too PSA/Educational to be enjoyable so no one watches it. I agree though; the real problem is that your supports dont know, dont understand, and probably dont think its a big deal. Good luck, sucks, but supports get better at higher elos.
I play a pretty good amount of support and like to think I have an alright handle on the role. That's why when I play with bad supports I get rather annoyed. That being said I do typically play with Goldish level people so I am still better off than most people who are lower Ranked.
: Lol, i had a brand that did this and seeing as im not so good with farming in general in the first place, especially as adc..... I asked them to stop autoing. Asked them to stop using their W on minions. They kept doing it and so the rest of my team was like "supports better than the adc". I mean really, its plain and simple logic, i was nice about it the first 3 times i asked, i waited about 3-5 minutes inbetween reach request.... Explained why i said this.... Then i was like "FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WOULD YOU DARN WELL TURN OFF AUTO ATTACKS OR WHATEVER" and proceeded to explain how to turn off autos. They still continued doing their own thing saying "go to a different lane" so i just ignored them and stayed in bott a bit until the wave got too pushed then i went to mid as the mid laner was coming bott anyways, and low and behold, they were 4 man ganked about 2 minutes later if that! I mean its only happened about 5 times previous lol.
It's isn't the biggest deal, but when supports start messing with minions a lot, even when they aren't trying to CS them it just kinda throws me off, and I'll miss some CS. However supports like that Brand aren't typically actually supporting and are just there to be there.
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