Terozu (NA)
: As for Lux I cannot find the proper Ask Riot I remember it being in the comments of, but the numbers stuck with me since, well, I main Lux. I don't understand why people are so insistent on her being of drinking age. It kind of creeps me out. Also, the end of her bio is phrased as the present with her having decided to stay in the capital after going there at 16 for Garen's graduating from his Dauntless training. On top of that her entire theme was originally an exploration on child soldier and stepford smiler. Talon and Kayn were mentioned as not being able to purchase alcohol on a reddit jokish thread. Kat is admittedly a guess but she should be around Garen's age since they're supposed to be foils to each other, and Cassie is the middle child. Sylas is admittedly more an educated guess based on his appearance, he very well could be in his 30's, but that just makes the Sylas x Lux squick even worse... {{sticker:sg-ahri-1}}
TBH I think a Sylas and Lux relationship is a little creepy regardless of her age (though obviously way worse if she is in fact a minor when their relationship begins). He's taken advantage of her powers and used her as basically a battery to charge his own magical essence. He arguably, yes, did it for a good cause, but the power balance in that relationship wouldn't be very healthy at all.
: What type of leader would Swain be considered?
I think the Stalin jokes are based on his winter themed skin, because it had a very Russian officer vibe pre-rework. More to the point, I think Noxus is best called a Triumvirate. It's a council of three major leaders who make decisions, presumably by discussions or votes between them, although we don't know that for sure. It's not quite a dictatorship or an autocracy, because there's not one leader with supreme power, but I wouldn't call it quite a Parliament or Senate either.
Terozu (NA)
: Uhhh no. Lux is a minor in canon. She is according to an old Ask Riot, 16-17. In comparison Ezreal is 17-18(specifically hes around a year older than lux). ~~Ekko is is chronologically 14-15 but biologically 16-17 due to time travel(he is 2 years younger than Lux but biologically the same age).~~ ~~Taliyah is 14-15, same age as Ekko.~~*Correction, Taliyah and Ekko are around 16 and 17(bio18-19). That's mb. Jinx is Lux's age.(Vi might be around here but could be older) Akali is 17, maybe 18 if you want to stretch(before her rework she was only like 14, and she aged a few years, which means if she is 18, she just had her birthday recently). Beyond that Annie is like 8, Nunu is like 9. The 8 of them make up LoL's minors. (Though Ezreal and Akali can be interpretted as adults if you want to, they most likely arent) On top of that, Talon and Kayn cant purchase alcohol legally. Garen and Lux were children at the same time. That makes their maximum age difference be around 6 years, which means He is only 22-23, with Kat within say 2 years of him either direction. Cassie is between Talon and Kat. Sylas is mid 20's.
Do you have sources for any of these ages? I'm not trying to like, needle you, I'm just curious. I've been interested in piecing together a League timeline for a long time, and canon champ ages would be really helpful in piecing together when things happen. I've always thought Lux was about 20 and Sylas was in his mid 30's, for example.
: Beating an Undead Horse
I do have to wonder if the fusing the Black Mist caused with Hecarim and his horse caused his mind to get a little horse-influenced too. Like, does Hecarim suddenly feel the need to chase sugar cubes now and **he's not entirely sure why**? When he was first raised, did he try to walk on his normal two legs and fall on his ass immediately? I think everyone will agree these are the prudent Lore questions we need answered.
The Iceborn (EUNE)
: New color story - Zyra
The revelation that Zyra can seemingly just...appear from any of her plant spawn definitely puts a new spin on just how powerful she might be. Especially if she can grow a new body from them. A homicidal plant-wizard with incredible powers who can spread herself across continents and regenerate her body when destroyed? Noxus should send her a job offer.
: Kayle & Morgana: Gods Or Nah?
I definitely think Kayle receives some form of worship in Demacia. She's light-magic themed, which matches the Illuminators, like you mentioned. I'm interested in Morgana as a cultural figure for Sylas' Mage Revolution, too. The breaking of chains, rebellion against an oppressive "light", and the idea that your "curse" is not really a curse, but a gift? I think she'd make a perfect symbol for his ideals. Certainly not worshiped in public, but maybe amongst his followers.
: I can't tell if you're joking or not
I don't think he's joking at all, back in the day this was like the first big "league meme" I remember. I associated "Dunkmaster" with Yi long before Darius, and I thought it was a little odd that Darius was getting the skin first. I'd like to see it on Yi (for old time's sake) or Illaoi (because she actually has a ton of dunking animations and exchanging the totem for a basketball makes sense).
: Misunderstood Ornn
I think Ornn is a great character who doesn't get enough attention for it. The cynical part of me wants to say it's because you can't put him in a K-Pop band or make him a beautiful anime man in a skin (although now that I think about it please do that riot), but honestly I think it's just that Lore (still) doesn't get quite the exposure it deserves. The way some new champions have been presented has been phenomenal, and it really helps feed into their characters. Ornn's a grouchy and dismissive old fogey, but it's not for a lack of trying. I love the contrast between the way "The Tales Of Ornn" presented him, as this super powerful demi-god who should be remembered for his titanic achievements, and the way he carries himself, as someone who wants to be forgotten because he's lost so much faith in the world.
Zapzya (OCE)
: Minotaurs still exist, thank you Riot
IIRC we did see Minotaurs on the Trade Map that came out with the Piltover update, but this is the first textual evidence of their status in Runeterra, which is cool stuff, I was a fan. I do think it's a little ironic that our first Minotaur sighting in the new canon is with a Noxian war band. Y'know, like the kind that, uh, _slaughtered all the minotaurs_ in the old lore. It's kind of a nice sign of the steps Riot's taken to make Noxus less cartoonishly villainous now, while still retaining some of their darker bits.
: Cancelled Champions: Who would you want revived?
This takes me back to when Lee Sin was on that list. For people who don't know the story, Lee was in the first trailer for the game, but never actually made it to being playable. So, one fine Urf Day back in Season 2, Riot dropped an announcement that Lee Sin had been revived and was coming out! On...April 1st. And all of his teaser shots had Urf somewhere in there. Naturally you all know how this goes now, but back then there was fierce debate over whether or not we were actually getting Lee Sin, or if our beloved Manatee would finally return. Riot was particularly cagey about it, and there was even a fake Champion Spotlight for Lee Sin that showcased him doing ridiculous crap like one-shotting the Nexus and disabling Surrenders, because **ONLY LEE SIN DECIDES WHEN THE GAME ENDS**. Sorry, tangent aside, I really only feel like Omen felt complete enough. Rob is hilariously generic, "Eagle Rider", Well, and Avasha are little more than concepts, Gavid, Averdrian, and Tabu were used as jokes on the old Halloween Summoner's Rift map, and Priscilla (who isn't on this list, but she was like a spider lady, more spidery than Elise) was "immortalized" as a Dominion item. Funny how that turned out. (hey riot i still want urf)
: LGBT+ Champs
> **I understand I'll probably get downvoted to hell, or maybe called ignorant**, but with so many opportunities to show different communitie**s, I don't understand what's really stopping champion creators / writers from creating more diverse champs**. Sadly I think it's the first half of this sentence that clarifies the second. Zenon mentioned that part of the reason the Taliyah lore didn't go through was for fear of backlash. When the new Varus stuff came out, there were a lot of people with very valid complaints (about his lore, not about homosexuality in general, of course), but there were also a lot of viscerally homophobic remarks. People STILL think it's high-larious to photoshop a KFC bucket into Lucian's hands or whatever. Sadly, I can see why he was worried. Even this thread. As you mentioned down the page, most people who have actually commented here are supportive, and yet I saw it sitting at a -2. Some people just see the topic of "LGBT champs" and instantly smash a downvote. But these discussions ARE important. They are a way of showing Riot that we do care, that there are substantial voices that want LGBT+ representation, or maybe even more importantly, letting LGBT+ League fans know that they aren't alone.
: So Riot retconned? Anyone still not happy with this?
With time since the Retcon, I've come to feel like summoners were always kind of a doomed proposition. The basic ideas of the IoW and League were great, I'm not going to argue that because I truly believe they were innovative and set the world apart from other fantasy universes. I'm still a little bummed we lost them. The Summoners created a problem where according to Lore, every player WAS a summoner. Every match, in fiction, was to decide some issue, whether it be some minor political scuffle or to avert a full-scale war (Ionia/Noxus Match). This, again, is a cool idea, but it wasn't quite sustainable. First of all, if you're trying to make meaningful characters, it's difficult when none of them can ever die, be maimed, retire, or in any other way stop fighting in the league. Every match is canon-ish, which creates a perpetual state of narrative entropy. The status quo absolutely must be upheld, at least in the case of the champions. There's also the issue of having Summoners as, basically, player avatars. How do you negotiate what the "summoners" want? Do you poll the player base? Great, but the majority of players have no investment in Lore. If you took a group of pro-players, for example, and had them pick champions to decide a Lore problem, the choices almost certainly would not be made based on "Oh, I think Ashe would have a vested interest in this plot development.", they would be made based on "We need an ADC and want slows and CC. Let's roll Ashe."
: Attempting to command the heavens above them ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿
Can you be more clear about what you mean? You didn't cite this quote or explain who/what it refers to. Your post just uses a bunch of "They" and "such thing" and "????". I'm not trying to be rude, I legitimately don't understand the topic. I can assume it refers to the new Liss/Vel lore, but otherwise I'm a little lost as to what you're confused about.
: Lore Update Opinions: Vel'Koz and Lissandra
I think that quite honestly nearly all of it is fantastic. We knew basically nothing about Serylda or Avarosa for years aside from "ashe and sejuani but not really", and this gives them viewpoints and characterization. Vel'koz's story reaches more into what the Void is, which is always an interesting topic. The worldbuilding and fleshing out of the setting is good. Honestly, though, and I'm sure this is why a lot of us are confused, I disagree with the decision to make Lissandra some sort of tragic anti-villain. First off, don't get me wrong, she's still a villain. I think people are overstating this by calling her a "hero" now. It's Lissandra's fault that the Watchers are even here, she's still murdering countless people to keep her secret. It's just that she's now deeply regretting her decision and terrified of the Watchers, instead of being in an alliance with them. I think this might be an attempt to make the character more "morally grey", and I can see why Riot would do that. Fans LOVE to take characters who are intended to be villainous and give them reasons to be heroes of their own stories. I think we can really see that with Viktor. I don't think it's a stretch to say Viktor's original incarnation was pretty clearly supposed to be unambiguously a bad guy, but fans really resonated with the character and he's been changed into a tragic hero. But, every time Viktor gets new Lore, fans tend to worry and we get a lot of threads reminding Riot that Viktor should not be portrayed as villainous. Syndra is another good example, I've seen a lot of people talking about how they wish the new Syndra lore didn't make her such a "villain". Although literally the only thing we had ever seen Syndra do in an interaction in the old Lore was **straight up murder a man**. I think one possible interpretation of the Lissandra changes is that it's a bit of a response to this. Riot can see that Lore fans enjoy characters who are ambiguously "good" or "bad", and want to make champions appealing. That said, I think it's a mistake with Lissandra because her character thrived in villainy. Lissandra was, pretty unexceptionably, the "final boss" of the Freljord arc. "Plans within Plans" and all that. What made her fun was her deception and cruelty, spending centuries spreading her twisted influence. Adding "but she doesn't REALLY want to" to that doesn't feel like it enhances her character in a meaningful way.
Infernape (EUW)
: First encounter interactions
With newer champions I think that's possible. If we're talking about older ones, though, getting the original VAs back to do that work, when _even Riot doesn't know who some of them are_, seems a little too costly in both funds and time to be feasible.
gerbe (NA)
: “Too Much Disney”
This has always been a weird argument to me because, like...do people think Disney...invented children? Or whimsy? I sorta get it with Zoe, her reveal trailer had a very Pixar-esque vibe, but Nunu's new design doesn't really look like anything I can recall from a Disney movie. If anything it sorta gives me Kubo and the Two Strings vibes, but even then, the idea of "young protagonist goes on adventure with wacky companion, learns about life" is older than Walt Disney's grandparents. We're talking, like, Sumerians.
: Kindred is Yorick?
The pale man story is a metaphor.
: Why do 2 of the 3 confirmed Demons lurk around Demacia? Coincidence?
They can take advantage of the country's lack of magical defenses. We aren't entirely sure what effect Petricite has on demons, if any, and the Demacian public isn't well educated on magic. A whole bunch of citizens who don't know what you do or how to stop you is a pretty great recipe for making trouble. Nocturne in "For Demacia", for example, is easily able to create mayhem and lure the townsfolk into lynching one of their own. While Garen and Lux can realize there's more going on, average Joe McDemacia is going to have no clue. It also takes Lux, an experienced light mage, to even drive Nocturne back.
: Is Kalamanda campaign still canon?
Every mention of the Crystal Scar has been removed from the Lore, including Skarner's backstory. Demacia and Noxus also now have totally different borders, so the idea of Kalamanda as a border town is highly unlikely. The League also isn't around anymore to settle the conflict, nor the summoners to start it in the first place. I loved Kalamanda too, but unfortunately I don't think anything about it is still canon. EDIT: As has been pointed out in the thread, yes, Kalamanda is still on the map, so it does at least exist in Runeterra.
: Is Demacia the longest nation to go without new champ?
I think you're right, and although they were my favorite city-state in the old Lore, I think there's a decent reason for that. Demacia has a pretty unifying aesthetic with its characters. Lots of white and gold, light and gleaming, etc. Their champs tend to fit traditional "fantasy" archetypes with a bulky armored knight, a fire-breathing dragon, a wand-wielding mage, and a brave prince. The only real outliers there are like, Vayne and Lucian (who have fairly loose ties to Demacia anyway) and Galio, although his rework made him mesh a little more. You can sorta look at Demacia's champion roster and guess what they might be like, and their niche feels well filled. So I think it makes sense that we wouldn't see too much added there, especially when they were fleshing out newer regions like Shurima.
: Zed's Squee Emotes deeper lore meaning
> a slight head nod to their friendship still being cannon. It's never been canon. The "Friends and Rivals" thing was just website dressing, as far as we know. There were a lot of inexplicable examples of champions that would never know one another, but were "friends" or "rivals" because there was a thematic link. Ahri and Wukong is a great example, in the old lore they're on other sides of the world, but they're both animal people, so "Friends". That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Riot _made it canon_ at this point. So many people think it is, and honestly that fan comic probably got read more than the original lores for the characters, because it was such a huge success. That said, Riot has expressed trepidation about taking ideas from fan work in the past, so that may be a dealbreaker. Still, we've seen community skins (Surprise Party Fiddles comes to mind) and in-jokes make it into the game before, so it's certainly possible. While I personally am not a fan of either character, I wouldn't have a problem with the additional development that could add!
: Jarvan III?
We don't have any information on this, really, like you mentioned, but through speculation I think there's some stuff we can glean. I think the biggest piece of (still hypothetical) information we have on J3 as opposed to J4 is that J3 seems far more rooted in tradition. We know from Fiora's lore that Demacia is extremely misogynistic. Yet J4's right-hand-lady is Shyvana, who is...a lady. Demacia is hyper-insular and anti-magic. Again, J4's friendship with a half-dragon born through magical means seems to paint him as not quite agreeing with that world view. So we're left with J3 as a king who is trying to keep his nation together through outdated views and traditions, while his son is gaining the experience to learn that a lot of that stuff is bullshit. How would J3 feel about that? Is he going to dismiss his heir's concerns? Is he receptive to what J4 is saying, but held back by advisers or other means of societal constraints? There are honestly a lot of directions you could explore with that relationship.
Fasmodey (EUW)
: Tobias is a nice name IMO. At least it sounds good to me as someone lives in a place Tobias is never a name of a person. Maybe people are biased against this name in NA for a reason I don't know.
Tobias is fine, I was more goofing about someone named "Tobias Foxtrot" making their new name "Twisted Fate". Like "I can keep the initials, but I want it to be _COOLER_." (There is a popular sitcom character named Tobias over here that might be influencing my judgement, though.)
: Was Mordekaiser born with that name, or did he adopt it?
I want to say "No" but this is a universe where Gangplank's name is straight up just "Gangplank" and some cruel parents named their son "Tobias Foxtrot". So, I mean...I don't think we know for sure.
Uriel (EUW)
: Tbh I'd love if he'd get some association with Shurima and/or the Void Whilst I don't know if it'll still be canon, but... Veigar is actually one of the youngest Yordles. He's roughly only in his 40's. Maybe he still is learning? Maybe his ambition leads him into biting for yet another trap, that he suddenly ends up as a misionary/servant of the Watchers? Refering to Gnar's lore, Yordles do have a history with the Watchers.
> [{quoted}](name=Uriel,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=hEkq681b,comment-id=0006000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-30T12:52:01.502+0000) > Whilst I don't know if it'll still be canon, but... Veigar is actually one of the youngest Yordles. He's roughly only in his 40's. I'm sorry, I don't recall Veigar ever being given an official age in the canon lore. Not to be rude, but I'm curious where you're getting 40 from. AFAIK, we don't really have that kind of timeline information for nearly any champs, and none of the Yordles.
Uriel (EUW)
: To be honest, I'd love to brainstorm some time what would be some ideal lore for Veigar to use. Based from an earlier post, Urgot from Zaun has interactions to him too (though it's more of a joke thing?). I think Veigar's lore can be spiced up a lot. And whilst I love a goofy villain who is easily stepped on his toes for mockery about his size, I think he can get so much more, with just one word being the whole morale of his story; Not insanity, but revenge. And to be honest, he's been always mocked at, why not give him some goofy puns/mockeries in return when he kills champions? Interactions like: (Killing any yordle) "H-HAHAHA! W-who's laughing now?!" "All those years you mocked me... But now, I have the last laugh!" "This is what happens when you take true power not serious!" (Killing Lux) "Your light stood no chance to pure darkness!" (Killing Urgot) "Tell your masters I said 'hello' back." (Killing Zoe) "And yet they don't pick on you?! NOT... FAIR." "We both know size doesn't ma-... C-CAN YOU STAND STILL FOR JUST ONE SECOND?!" (Final Boss Veigar killing Cyber Pop Zoe) "Acces Denied." (Killing Lulu) "Sorry, it's not me. It's you." "My only true love is power. Why did you not understand that?!" "Consider this a... rejection." (Killing Teemo) "I've never liked you anyway." (Killing Kled) "It disgusts me you stood with them!" "Once a Noxian, always a traitor." "Did you get picked on so much you needed that weird... thing... to make yourself look bigger?" Also, as for skins... I'd totally love a Love & Hate skin to come for Veigar and Lulu in valentine 2019.
Urgot's interaction with Veigar is just a joke, really, it doesn't have anything to do with the actual in-game canon. Voice lines are a bit of a mixed bag on how seriously you're meant to take them within the setting. > To be honest, I'd love to brainstorm some time what would be some ideal lore for Veigar to use. Feel free, it's the Story/Art/Sound board, it's basically our thing. Personally, I really want to see Veigar keep the goofy side he has, with a little more depth of character to make him feel like a part of the world. I'm pointing to the Dr. Mundo rewrite as a good example of this, because it kept Mundo as the silly character we all know and love without making him just a one-note joke, and giving him something to be doing in this new setting without a League. Maybe Veigar believes that by controlling Runeterra, he can protect it from threats like the Void? Maybe he's an outcast from Yordle society, trying to assuage his inferiority complex with ever-grander schemes that never quite hit the mark? Here's my on-the-spot pitch for a new Veigar bio: **As a Yordle, the sorcerer Veigar has existed for centuries. His command over dark arcane arts, coupled with a hunger for power, have lead this diminutive Yordle to seek absolute authority over the world he despises. Unfortunately for Veigar, despite millennia of attempts, his plans have never once succeeded. For all Veigar possesses in power and ambition, he lacks in foresight and fortune. For every catastrophic plan of Veigar's, there is a catastrophic failure, typically leaving the sorcerer cursing, plotting, and slightly singed, ever increasing his obsession with finally seizing the power he believes he so deserves. Due to this lack of success, his name is unknown to the mortal races of Runeterra, and the minor damage caused by his schemes is frequently attributed to simple freak accidents. However, Veigar is nothing if not persistent, and as the years roll on, his power only grows. Someday soon, one of his plots may come to fruition, and the Tiny Master Of Evil could loom large over all Runeterra.**
Uriel (EUW)
: Why is Veigar so unloved?
I can't speak to the gameplay problems you bring up (although he is one of my favorite champions to play as well), since I'm out of the loop there, but I would like to speak on Lore for a bit. Veigar is such a weird character in Lore because nearly every part of him feels like a relic of Old League. Here are a few reasons I think Narrative might be having trouble incorporating him into the evolving world. **Veigar's Backstory Doesn't Make Sense Now.** So Veigar's madness is the result of being imprisoned by Noxians. Isolation drove him insane and that's why he's a cackling villain. But that's totally out of line with New Noxus. Old Lore Noxus ran the gamut, depending on the story, from "Ruthless But Free" to "Just Pure Evil". Early on, they were usually just the bad guys used to give someone a tragic backstory. Who enslaved Alistar? Noxus. Who killed Galio's creator? Noxus. Who nuked Yi's village? Noxus. So when the story called for some terrible baddies to lock up Veigar because it's funny to watch Yordles go mad...surprise, it's Noxus. But New Noxus wouldn't do that. While Old Noxus was described as "notoriously xenophobic", New Noxus is extremely welcoming, gladly absorbing any powerful allies, regardless of origin, into their empire and army. Their response to a competent and skilled mage who can blast away foes with meteors and dark matter wouldn't be "lol let's mess with this thing", it would probably be "Hey, wanna join up?". **Yordles Aren't Really Explained Yet** Old League Lore had Yordles as basically small, fuzzy humans. They loved technology, maybe had some special powers, and might have been from space, but they had a static city, a government, presence in world politics, and citizens across multiple Runeterran city-states. New Yordles are implied to be some sort of spirits? Heimerdinger and Ziggs, formerly outright public figures, now use magic to disguise themselves as humans in Piltover. Poppy is some sort of nigh-immortal wanderer. The entrances to Bandle City are secret portles. Bandle City **isn't even on the map**. The only two Yordles who have really seen big new stories in the new Lore are Kled, who is an entirely new character, and Poppy, who was retooled as almost sort of a guardian spirit for Demacia. Before we can answer questions about Veigar's place, there are probably many questions that must be answered about the state of Yordles in Runeterra. **Veigar Does Not Match The Tone Of Current Storytelling** Veigar was written into a plotline where a mute bard, a Viking, and two undead were a beloved metal band. A robot punched a war criminal chemist in the crotch. Dr. Mundo was a public celebrity. League Lore around the time of the JoJ reveled in silliness, and Veigar is exactly the kind of silly character who flourishes in that setting. Remember when he tried to steal the Mothership by strapping a bunch of balloons to it and flying away? New Lore has been, with a few exceptions (Kled, that Jinx comic) mostly very serious. The stories have been about things like the bloody takeover of Bilgewater, the ritual murders of the Ascended, the semi-accidental destruction of all of Shurima by Xerath, and the desperate hopes of a disturbed young mage using a World Rune to turn himself into an avatar of flaming destruction. It's harder to have Veigar strapping balloons to things next to that. I love Veigar, and I love his role as a goofy wannabe villain who constantly bungles his own plans. I don't think any of these things **can't** fit into the new universe, but I can see the difficulty in doing so. Although I really hope they overcome it because our boy deserves some new Lore.
: > [{quoted}](name=LordHippoman,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EY0GheAK,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-28T22:14:55.474+0000) > > I don't think we'll see the World Runes used any time soon in League Lore, at least not all at once. > > The problem here is that this would essentially be a conclusion to the story, or at least several arcs of it. Ending the Void threat effectively removes {{champion:145}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:121}} and {{champion:161}} from the narrative, and has significant ramifications on the backstories of other champs. The way this is phrased also involves several champions putting aside their differences: Swain and Irelia working together, Viktor and Jayce teaming up, Xerath deciding not to just try and blow up everyone within reach. An idea like this requires so much plot progression and character work that would be a level of advancement in the League Lore that is totally unprecedented. > Well sure...the void arc is the main plot line in league of legends since it can connect all the stories together ( the void is a threat to the entirety of runeterra ). As you said the resolution of that plot line is not coming any time soon...That being said a resolution must be given at some point..the old days of vague lore that went nowhere have passed (or at least i hope so). > It's also a very superhero-y finale. I don't think there's anything wrong with that (I personally wrote a fanfic like three/four years ago with an ending that is pretty similar to this idea!), but the way the tone of the Lore is leaning now feels like it doesn't want to do that. As opposed to the old JoJ and original Lore, things are far less kitschy and black and white. League doesn't really want to be about heroes and villains anymore, it feels like, so much as it wants to be about a setting of complex locales and peoples. And they don't necessarily even interact anymore, because the Institute Of War isn't there to facilitate that. And that is what fascinates me about the new lore ..the increasing character complexity and the organic world building.However that being said true villains still exist in the world of league. Void's goal is to ''undo '' creation.No matter the potential reasoning behind that it still comes in direct conflict with the goals of most champions.The rune wielders are not heroes they are selfish individuals that try to protect their dreams and desires..Xerath wants to be worshipped as a god and thus he needs to protect his ''subjects'' and his futere empire.Victor and jayce both want progress a concept that will lose its meaning if the void successfully invades runeterra ( imagine a whole icathia like world).A temporary alliance does not entail a resolution to every subplot in the lore.. > > I don't think this is a bad idea, but I personally don't see the Lore flowing enough in this direction to call it plausible with the current canon. In the end we can only speculate about the futere..i would love to hear your theory about the resolution of the void plotline !
> That being said a resolution must be given at some point..the old days of vague lore that went nowhere have passed (or at least i hope so). Things do seem to be leaning that way, don't they? We're seeing old "mysteries" resolved, through stories like Broken Blade giving an endpoint to the Yasuo's Master plotline and Twilight Of The Gods giving us far more information on the Darkin than we've ever had. It seems like Narrative is more focused on resolutions lately, which is something that makes my old lore fan bones VERY happy. I've always enjoyed League's story, but my biggest complaint from S1 onwards is the lack of resolutions. That's being addressed, and I should probably be more open to the idea that it can happen further. You have a better viewpoint than I do on that. > A temporary alliance does not entail a resolution to every subplot in the lore. You're totally right here. Now that I've tumbled this idea around in my head more, I can see some more interesting interactions stemming from it, and that's a big plus. > In the end we can only speculate about the futere..i would love to hear your theory about the resolution of the void plotline ! I honestly don't have one. The only reason I'm being skeptical about this one is that the idea of these champions coming together to solve a problem, even if it's for selfish reasons or only a temporary measure, is that it's still a very hopeful outcome. Runeterra right now is not a hopeful place. Bilgewater went from goofy pirate city to "No, like, an ACTUAL pirate city." Ionia is enveloped in infighting and civil conflict. Piltover and Zaun are a giant allegory for class warfare. Demacia's totalitarianism, which was only somewhat implied in the old Lore (outside of Lux's backstory) has been reinforced heavily and mixed in with some bigotry, xenophobia, and sexism. Noxus is...well, Noxus is nicer than it used to be, really. But they're about the only ones. What I mean is that I feel like this general tone of darkness is not setting up for any sort of teamwork-based conclusion. That being said, I, personally, would like to see that change. Honestly I think pop culture and literature right now is so hellbent on dark, depressing settings that a little bit of hope and light-heartedness is called for. tl;dr (I'm sorry, I ramble): I think the current tone of the Lore is at odds with the solution you propose, so I can't see it happening right now. However, should the tone change (which I support), I think we have a good chance at seeing an idea like the one you mentioned happening in canon.
: 5 runes for 5 champions ( deffenders )
I don't think we'll see the World Runes used any time soon in League Lore, at least not all at once. > What if each rune is given by ryze to a champion in order to protect runeterra from a big upcoming void( or targonian ) invasion ? I mean runes can not sit there forever they must serve a purpose within the current narrative and being runeterras ultimate trump card is one such purpose ! The problem here is that this would essentially be a conclusion to the story, or at least several arcs of it. Ending the Void threat effectively removes {{champion:145}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:31}} {{champion:121}} and {{champion:161}} from the narrative, and has significant ramifications on the backstories of other champs. The way this is phrased also involves several champions putting aside their differences: Swain and Irelia working together, Viktor and Jayce teaming up, Xerath deciding not to just try and blow up everyone within reach. An idea like this requires so much plot progression and character work that would be a level of advancement in the League Lore that is totally unprecedented. It's also a very superhero-y finale. I don't think there's anything wrong with that (I personally wrote a fanfic like three/four years ago with an ending that is pretty similar to this idea!), but the way the tone of the Lore is leaning now feels like it doesn't want to do that. As opposed to the old JoJ and original Lore, things are far less kitschy and black and white. League doesn't really want to be about heroes and villains anymore, it feels like, so much as it wants to be about a setting of complex locales and peoples. And they don't necessarily even interact anymore, because the Institute Of War isn't there to facilitate that. I don't think this is a bad idea, but I personally don't see the Lore flowing enough in this direction to call it plausible with the current canon.
Reiizm (NA)
: So runes grant enough terrible power to level an entire city-state to ash in a single night...
He could either leave the nukes scattered all over the place where anyone who feels like they want a nuke today might stumble upon them, or he could find a way to seal them in what appears to be an incredibly secure vault, which only someone incredibly qualified who knows the sheer devastation they can unleash can access. It's not a perfect solution but it trumps the alternative.
: Are the World Runes basicly Infinity Stones?
I know it lines up in a cultural sense, but the idea of having a set of magic objects (especially rocks/gems) that are often multicolored to represent different elements or powers that they have, and are potentially catastrophic if brought together, is a fantasy trope that is far, far older than Marvel. It's a plot device that you can't really trace back to an origin point.
: Ryze: Call of Power | Cinematic - League of Legends
Okay. Alright, Riot, you had my interest with the World Runes. I enjoyed watching Miss Fortune ult while jumping off a ship. I loved getting to see Ryze and Nasus fight a giant robot in the deserts of Shurima. But you're telling me....Sona's Crescendo just...holds people and they don't **IMMEDIATELY START DANCING?** I'm sorry, the Lore is over now. (I'm joking, obviously it was really well done! Fantastic work and I'm always happy to see Lore get the level of love it has in the past few days.)
: Indeed - Graham "Dinopawz" McNeill is a narrative writer at Riot Games. Same for Anthony "AntInOz" Reynolds. Aaron Dembski-Bowden is a sci-fi and fantasy writer based in the UK, best known for his Warhammer stuff. Between us, we've created a HECK of a lot of content for Games Workshop, before coming to Riot... ;-)
Thank you for the affirmation, although now I'm embarrassed that I managed to misspell both Graham McNeill's real name and his screen name in one fell swoop. That's what I get for not Googling first.
zaire90 (NA)
: Is that the guy who did the icathia story cause I remeber the person who did the icathia one was associated with warhammer
No, that was Graham McNeil/Dinopaws. He's done quite a few stories, including Twilight Of The Gods, Burning Tides, and Shadow and Fortune. I think this is the first contribution to the League universe that Aaron Dembski-Bowden has made, but it's definitely a very strong start.
: My Emote entries!
I haven't played in a long time (just been really busy), and haven't bought anything in even longer, but I would heavily consider getting back in just to unlock that Nasus emote. I love that concept so much, well done.
: IT'S HERE - Map of Runeterra
I'm glad to see this appear, and in a very appealing format as well. Universe is really shaping up to be the best thing to have ever happened to League's storytelling.
Giovarco (EUW)
: So do you think that they are kind of allied? It is an interesting idea. But at this point I expect the Demon Raven to leave at some point the Immortal Bastion. Legit? Because Mordekaiser hadn't set foot in Valoran for a long time. I still think that it (the Raven) is prisoned there. I imagine it to feed off the secrets its ravens put the eye on, day to day, since it can't move :)
I think the alliance of a creature like that is probably very...flexible. If the Raven Demon is immobile and cannot leave the Bastion, as may be the case, it needs assistance to spread its influence. If Mordekaiser can no longer provide that, I don't think it would have any moral hangups about abandoning its former partner if Swain seems like a more useful "friend". Then again, this is all hypothetical, we don't know if Mordekaiser was really in league with a demon, or exactly what happened between Swain and the demon in the Bastion. That said, there are a lot of storytelling opportunities present there.
: ¿ɐɯᴉɹnɥS {{sticker:sg-kiko}}
BIo I want you to know, I didn't downvote you because this was unhelpful, I did it so you'd be at 8 again. So it still works upside down.
: > [{quoted}](name=Camille Ferrøs,realm=EUNE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=pXI4t0I6,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-07-16T15:45:38.346+0000) > > So its more like fan idea then an actual lore connection They were listed as friends like how kled only has rivals except for skarl The fans did turn it into a romance though....
I would definitely take ANYTHING listed on the old "Friends and Rivals" page with a massive grain of salt. Most of it was just flavor, and many of them didn't make any sense in the story. For example, Ahri and Wukong were listed as friends. This was years before the word "Vastaya" even existed, so they were literally continents apart at this point. So why are they friends? Probably because they're both animal people and why not. Zed and Syndra have never interacted in the written Lore, and the stuff about Zed being able to access her fortress is from that popular fan comic, which, while it's definitely made its mark on the fanbase (and it could be argued that things like that are as important as canon lore, but that's like a whole essay's worth of babbling), is not canon. They were probably listed as friends because Zed and Syndra both have a vested interest in destroying the Ionian government. I think they could work together, but they haven't started that process yet.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Zeiriko,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3kGGHEUK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-17T17:16:36.752+0000) > > Not really. then what are the differences?
The reactions that both Zed and Akali have to their disillusionment with the Kinkou are very different. Zed basically decides he can do this whole thing better and recruits an army of ~~edgelords~~ Shadow Ninja to try and control Ionia. He's ruthless and single-minded enough about his mission that he's basically waging war on anyone who gets in his way. Akali seems to think the Kinkou are in the wrong, but she's not violent towards them, and she's not trying to make her own sweeping changes to the rest of Ionia. She's off to work alone and find her own sense of right and wrong, without the backing of Zed or Shen, and see which side she falls on (if she doesn't just make her own path).
: Why do Zoe and Myisha look so similar?
There's really no canon information on why they look so similar yet, but if I had to guess, being possessed by an aspect may warp your appearance. So Twilight may have "reshaped" its hosts over the years. Or maybe it only possesses people that look that way in the first place? It's a Space Demigod, it's hard to decipher its motivations.
: Zoe is NOT Evil
I mean, no, she isn't, she's not good either, she's pretty much just pure "whatever the Aspect wants". Twilight is a trickster god, it does whatever seems like it'll stir up the most fun. She's not evil in the sense that she's conspiring to hurt people, or good in the sense that she's trying to help others, if either of those things occur it's at most a convenient side-effect.
: But given said god-warriors are still around to cause more trouble and are now ultra pissed off thanks to the centuries of torture via immobility and solitary confinement, was the poetic justice really worth it? I'd say they made things worse and the Aspects should have just killed their enemies like decent folks.
I think you're right, but the Aspects are not decent folks. Twilight, the one who's doing all this, is a trickster. Its charge isn't so much to do what's right or wrong, it's to do what seems like the most fun. If you're a cosmic entity bent on making trouble, keeping some of the Darkin alive allows for more chaos in the future. Which is what Myisha/Zoe seem to thrive on.
: Lore updates: Ideas for the future #3
I think Garen, deep down, has already almost certainly figured it out. > The words hung between them, and Lux looked away, remembering not to underestimate her brother. People knew him as honest and direct, with a sound grasp of tactics and war stratagems, but few ever thought of him as subtle or cunning. That, knew Lux, was a mistake. Yes, Garen was a simple warrior, but simple didn’t mean stupid. Garen's facade is that of being absolutely committed to everything Demacia stands for. He is an arbiter of absolute justice and has no room for anything other than white and black, good and bad. That's, at least, what he tells people. In Taric's lore, Garen is the one to sentence him for desertion. Garen is Taric's close friend, and he gives him the "Crown Of Stone", which means he can't return to Demacia until he climbs Mt. Targon. This is widely accepted to be impossible, so this punishment is a fancy way of just saying "exile". Garen knows that Taric cannot fit in with Demacia, so kicking him out is the most merciful thing he can do. He just does it in a way that fits the Demacian tradition. In "For Demacia", Garen accompanies Lux on an adventure, one in which she uses magic. Specifically, shooting a giant-ass-light-pillar into the sky. Then this happens: > “What happened?” gasped Varya. “Lux,” said Garen. Garen isn't stupid. His little sister just walked up a mountain to challenge a nightmare demon, a flashy light show occurred, and she comes back unharmed. The story ends with an exchange between Lux and Garen where she questions his sense of absolute morality, and he says this: > “We live in a world that does not allow for such nuances, Lux. Demacia is beset on all sides by terrible foes; savage tribes in the north, a rapacious empire in the east and the power of dark mages who threaten the very fabric of our realm. We deal in absolutes by necessity. Allowing doubt to cloud our judgement leaves us vulnerable. And I cannot allow us to become vulnerable.” Garen thinks that having someone who can make the hard decisions for what he thinks is "good" is a requirement. But, as we see in Taric's lore and heavily implied in Lux's, I think this statement isn't meant to convince Lux, it's meant to convince himself. If Garen knows what Lux is, he has to come to grips with magic not being evil, and the Demacians using it as a military tool under the table. That shatters this world-view he thinks is so important, so he's probably doing all he can not to act on it. I tend to think of Garen like I do Illaoi. Both of them are nigh-fanatically loyal to a concept. But they are humans, they have their own thoughts and emotions, and they sometimes stray from the path to obey them. Garen probably knows. He just won't admit it to himself.
: We need a chart on cosmology
I would be a fan of this. I think the levels of demigodlike creatures are getting a little bit too sprawling to just remember offhand.
: A concern, concerning the Void
I've been following League Lore since Season 1, I love the stuff. But I do have to say, the amount of "cosmic" Lore we've been getting recently is starting to finally burn me out. Don't get me wrong, it's well written. Twilight Of The Gods is a fantastic story because Dinopaws is a great writer. But with all of these massive threats building up left and right, there are some very real problems. To me, it's an issue of resolution. I'm going to reference what is probably the best received piece of Lore, ever, Burning Tides. Because Burning Tides **resolved plotlines**. The long-standing rivalry between Graves and Twisted Fate was explained and amended. The conflict between GP and MF took a massive turn. The status quo was changed, but in a way that allowed the world to keep turning. "Confessions Of A Broken Blade" does something similar, resolving a long-standing conflict, but in the end I feel like the status quo didn't change all that much. Riven and Yasuo are still doing pretty much exactly what they were doing before, Riven's heart is just less of a mess. These resolutions allow us to see the world change and evolve, enhancing the setting and characters and making it feel like things keep progressing. The Darkin lore is backstory, which expands on the characters involved...but it sets up a bit of an unsolvable problem. With factions like the Void and the Darkin, any resolution that involves one of these massively powerful sides winning is so hard to write, because of collateral damage. A fight between Gangplank and Miss Fortune blows up a boat. A fight between Aatrox and Xerath probably blows up a country. Is that something Riot could write? Yes, and I believe Narrative absolutely could. But it's much more difficult to convey, both in a story format and for the fans to understand. So I don't think things are going to be solved with these stories, at least not for a long time, and that makes it more difficult for me to feel invested.
: Something's been bothering me about Garen and Lux
Skins are not canon to the actual storyline of League. That said, they make for interesting "what if?" scenarios. God-King Garen is an alternate take on the character that doesn't really have to do with his normal place in lore or personality. It's actually sort of a hyper-inflation of his worst traits, a desire for order and justice leading to tyranny. I'm not sure how Lux would fit into that universe, but if we're assuming it's based on the same sorts of principles, and Garen's still suspicious of her magical leanings, his God-King incarnation probably would have tried to kill Lux, and possibly succeeded. If not, she's probably in hiding, since I couldn't see even a distorted version of Lux being fully on GK Darius' anarchist side.
rnogy (NA)
: Twilight of gods - Myisha is Zoe?
The Aspects take humanoid hosts, so I'm guessing Myisha is a former host of the Aspect Of Twilight. Her personality is drastically different from Zoe's, though, so that raises an interesting question. Do the aspects' personalities merge a little with those they inhabit? Zoe's a carefree child, Myisha's a calculating schemer, but they both seem to have been inhabited by the Aspect Of Twilight. Pantheon is likely an exception to that rule, because the Aspect Of War seems to completely dominate its hosts.
: Pyke's Concept Art
I really like Pyke's design because it's kinda understated, and we've had so many "out there" champs recently. But I can definitely appreciate this, and I'm finding it hard to decide which I prefer at the moment, honestly. They're both good ideas.
Kuzja1 (NA)
: What's Demacia's current relationship with Piltover?
We don't have any concrete information on this right now, but I think it's an interesting topic to sorta theorycraft about. Demacia's new thing is that they really, really hate magic. Hextech does, arguably, contain magic, if you want to count the Brackern soul gems as being magical in nature, so that would probably make them ill-willed towards Piltover. However, if we stretch the definition of "magic" too far, it starts to reach the point where Demacia cannot like any city-state but themselves. While that is...actually fairly likely, given how insular they are, it's more fun to go off of other topics and give the magic thing the benefit of the doubt. Piltover is located as a major trade hub. The territories surrounding it are slowly being assimilated into the Noxian empire. Demacia's other thing is that they really, really hate Noxus. The Noxians have already tried making aggressive moves towards Piltover, what with Tamara being sent in as a spy, and probably not the only one. Piltover is also armed to the teeth with high-power weapons and chem-tech, meaning that they might be the only nation that stands a decent chance at fending off a straight-up Noxian invasion. Even Swain seems to recognize this, considering the stealth he's employing with the warmasons. So Demacia would probably greatly appreciate that. I could easily see them being allied, but a little weirded out by the cultural differences. There are a lot of directions this could go, and I think it mostly depends on "How open to interaction are the Demacians?"
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