: best to keep youre sanity than to lose it. i know times can be rough but the only way to get change in communitys like this is to unite everyone under a single banner a.k.a. a certain topic. good luck man i wish you the best im sorry that you and basically most of the community. including me have to deal with such people.
Thank you so much for actually understanding what I was trying to say and not just assuming I'm fighting for the right to be an asshole. I wish good luck to you as well.
Julevi (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=PLATINUMSTARLING,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EExIcG7n,comment-id=00030000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-06-03T08:19:27.719+0000) > > so youre admitting that singular words or phrases can get you banned thank you for proving me right. Yeah, but that is not a secret - ZT-words and phrases are well-known for leading to a 14-day-ban. > all words and phrases should be treated on the same level of toxicity, specific words or phrases should not have a higher priority than others. this is why riots system is wrong You are allowed to have that opinion. I am quite on the opposite side and agree with Riot here. Insulting/Target someone because of their race/gender/sexuality - threatening them with murder or encouraging them to selfharm crosses the line massively as those are sensitive topics and should be treated as such [personally I would make an exception (not in-game related but generally speaking] for black-humor or jokes). > p.s. i hope you also take into consideration the fact that "kys" is a fairly common phrase to be told to someone youre mad at in video games such as this one. most people saying "kys" to other people dont actually mean it, it is only a way that they can vent their frustrations, on a certain player. Although I see were you are comming from I would like to ask you: "Why do they word it this way?". There are billions possibilities to show your madness without including this acronym but taking exactly this, taking kys is a knowingly decision. Even when they do not exactly agree with the thought behind it they still choose it for it's massive effect, they still choose to tell others to kill themselves over a videogame. A short example of my life: a long time ago I met some dudes and got close to them - we shared the same interests and were overall great friends. Shortly after our meetings I got introduced to some buddies of them (luckily termination of contact was the case soon) and things were okayish at the start and got worse when we started playing together. Let me tell you: they were real crybabies in LoL, raging at the littlest things and throwing insults around. But their most favourite insult was and will ever be: jew - in all variations. They never met a jew in their life (as far as we know). They could not point out one thing they disliked about jews. They didn't even know what it means being jewish and not had a single clue about Judaism. But do you know were they took this insult? From World War II and for them, due to this historic past, it was the perfect symbolization of people who were in their eyes subhumans. I broke up the contact a few days after and from this day till today stumbled across this insult more and more. Now I could ask you again: "Why did they word it this way?". I think because it bears a clear message to their dialogue partner.
You literally said black humor would be okay for you personally but expressed distaste in your old friends Jew jokes. You feel you should have any input whatsoever on what is morally correct for Riot to do? Seriously, this community is a joke.
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=LordierTengu,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EExIcG7n,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-06-03T06:11:00.470+0000) > > This was a great response. I sensed no hint of hatred for what I type I typed as I did in all the others so far. You truly answered me objectively and thoroughly. Though I must say why is "idiot. 1/6 and talking?? we got camped and you had a free lane and still sucked." a statement worthy of penalty. Because you used the word "idiot"? It's because its only purpose as a whole is to insult and demean others. Even if you removed the word "idiot" the message and intent would still be the same. >You spend the same time typing that as you would have the response you believe to more reasonable. Its okay that the vast majority of players feel the way you do and everyone else who has responded, If I am outnumbered in opinion that is okay with me. I only hope to get at least 1 person under the same realization I have acquired who did not accept or really firmly understand it before. > > This game and community truly has a weird culture of the simplest things being considered "toxic" or detrimental to the game. Just to clarify, I'm not the guy constantly raging on others and wondering why I'm getting penalized. I'm the guy that is saying, this is absurd. Simple chatting shouldnt be penalized when there is no sexual harassment, prejudice, or attacks on personal identity. Chatting by itself won't get you punished (I use it regularly myself and have never been warned or banned for it). It's when you start using chat to consistently insult, rage at and/or harass others that it will get you punished. Even consistent amounts of low-grade insults/harassment can eventually lead to a punishment since the IFS punishes based on consistency and severity. Besides, if someone is only interested in using the chat to insult, rage at and/or harass others rather than play the actual game itself then why shouldn't they be hit with a punishment and held accountable for their actions? > I now see that Riot is only acting in response to their community.. which is vastly composed of sensitive people. I understand not wanting any unnecessary chatting in game but this is life. Life and people don't change just because you signed into a virtual server. This game may be an escape from a reality for most people, but it shouldn't get so bad as to paint an entirely distorted view of what is normal socializing. Here we go, the whole "I can't behave however I want and get away with it, therefore the community is sensitive" argument. This (imo stupid and dumb) argument is used allot, most commonly by people who are mad that they can't get away with behaving poorly in a video game (not saying you're one of them necessarily). Let me ask you this: is it really the community that's sensitive for simply not being willing to put up with other peoples poor behavior even in a game? Or is it actually the people complaining about not being able to abuse and harass others and get away with it that are the sensitive ones? In my experience the answer to that question is often the latter since they often don't realize and/or want to admit that "you should be able to handle it" is just a poor excuse to be a bully or a jerk (again, not saying you're one of them necessarily). From [Ulanopo’s Knowledge Base](http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4086541&page=1#post43465401):): >**“People who report are simply being oversensitive. The mute button exists for a reason.”** >Let’s start with the Riot quote on this (link (http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=30696571#post30696571)): >**_Why is verbal abuse punishable if there is a mute button/language filter?_** _Players shouldn’t need to rely on features like the mute button or language filter to engage with other players in positive ways. When a player verbally abuses another player and forces him to use the mute button, they have already created a negative experience for that player._ >Simply put, Riot says no. You can scream and cry all you want, but it is their house and their rules. >With that out of the way, I think the topic deserves some further discussion. The theory is that, if people resolved to care less, then they would be happier. I often refer to this as ”Argument from Stoicism” and I think it is a fairly weak philosophy because it places the burden on the person being expected to endure the behavior rather than the person exhibiting the behavior. “You should be able to handle it” is just a flimsy excuse for being a bully or a jerk. I have to be the bigger man so that you can do whatever you want? That hardly seems fair. >There is also the issue of how I spend my limited free time. Like most people, I am constantly required to make value judgments between the different forms of entertainment that are available to me and, let's be honest, we live in an age of nearly limitless entertainment options. If I'm having a bad day in League, I can just fire up Steam and play a whole bunch of games that don't require me to put up with someone's BS. >This is not an issue of weakness or thin-skin; it's a question of choosing activities that don't leave me feeling frustrated and angry. Too many of those experiences and I'll just find something else to do. Riot knows this.
This was a great response. Though I'm not hoping for the right to bully others because I feel they're too sensitive to handle it. I'm hoping for the ability to say "You're a troll, uninstall now. " when top laner goes straight from base to bot lane with no intention of even playing top lane. If someone says to me "You're trash noob, kill yourself", I want to be able to say "go **** yourself" in return. Do you see how this isn't black and white but rather shades of grey? Just because I am asking for more freedom with my speech doesn't mean I am requesting the right to bully and antagonize others. There are many instances where telling someone something confrontational is NOT bullying or hoping to ruin the game for others. People here seem to be 1 track minded(not necessarily you) and only read me saying "WHY CANT I BULLY YOU WITHOUT GETTING REPORTED, IM NOT PLAYING TO ENJOY THE GAME IM PLAYING TO TALK SHIT AND KEEP GETTING PUNISHED :(" I can't imagine anyone trying to argue for that. I think the general culture of this community is to jump to that conclusion because dealing with complex social dynamics is hard and it's much easier to just have a ban system for that gets toxic players even if others are grouped in along. Black and white is much easier to deal with than lines of grey.
: You should quit the game. Simply because you're entertaining yourself at the expense of others. This game wasn't made for you. This game was made for everyone. People don't need to come home from a long day just to log in to relax and enjoy themselves and have the likes of you ruin it for them.
You assume I'm entertaining myself at the expense of others. What if I'm responding to someone doing just that and I say something slightly profane. Now I'm the toxic one and the initial troll is in a position to play without consequence on top of having the power to report me. Furthermore, I play ranked mostly. My time spent on this mode does have more value to me than if I were playing norms. I don't want to have a guy on my team that just got home from work and is looking to have a good time. I want a guy who values his time as much as I do and is trying his best to win the game. Thank you for your suggestion though, I am considering quitting.
: > [{quoted}](name=LordierTengu,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EExIcG7n,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-06-03T05:55:44.441+0000) > > Thanks, I know it's up to me. I'm not here to seek guidance on that matter. > > Riot has done a good job of creating a cult like atmosphere of people who feel anything outside positive remarks and objective driven chat entries is considered toxic. Actually, I would bet a lot of money the same people defending their values are people who have suffered from actual social or mental disorders in real life (anxiety, depression, etc). You're not an asshole for calling someone out that finds it okay to bash you without you ever saying anything to them to begin with, and you're not an asshole for telling a troll they are ruining your experience and should get off. Games commonly take 25-40 minutes. You can win a ranked game in 40 minutes and have your points taken in the next game within 15 by a guy who is only there to laugh while intentionally ruining everyone elses experience. If all you're here to do is call people crazy for not wanting to hear your nonconstructive and negative comments while they're trying to enjoy a video game (remember, there are ten players in each match, not just you and the person you've decided is a troll), then this thread doesn't belong in PB. The PB Board is intended for constructive conversation.
I have been hoping for constructive conversation but instead am being told to quit and being called an ass. I dont recall calling anyone crazy. Your response is exact indication of this game's culture I'm pointing out. I did not agree with you and told you my reasons why. This registered as conflict to you and you expressed my post should be removed for lack of constructive value. This is the same as reporting me in game because I said something you felt was "toxic" and vaguely confrontational.
: The moral standards the overwhelming majority of people here want you to follow? The moral standards that are assumed practically everywhere, like "Don't be an ass to other people"?
Your response like many others here, displays the assumption that I'm being an ass to other people. The ability to fend for yourself and criticize does not deem you an ass. It means you are a person who values their time and self value. The majority isn't always right. A good example of that is when a poor leader is chosen in a democratic nation via majorities vote.
: Riot spends and has spent money to built and maintain the game, including it's chat functions. Their right to speech includes the ability to not host any chat they do not want to spend money hosting. If you think that you can force them to transmit speech on your behalf, I also claim that right over your time and money. You must now spend at least $15k a month building and maintaining a video distribution site containing only videos of you purchasing and destroying collectible plates. Unless for some reason you think that you have some sort of right to your own speech (how you spend your money is considered a form of speech), and I can't personally usurp it.
Riot is earning money from people. They aren't simply spending without making profit.
: Let me tell you a secret. League is on of the MOST TOXIC game out there. I been playing fornite for years and I play squads only and guess what I have run into maybe 1 or 2 toxic person. In league you are lucky if you dont get a toxic game per day. I think giving player freedom of speech honestly will be better. League been out tehre for decade and the community hasnt gotten better. At this point honestly seems like riot gave up on it. Also this game seriously need a Mic chat where you can communicate better with teammates.
rujitra (NA)
: Except, it wouldn't get me punished in game. Because I only called you an asshole on *rare* occasion in response to *specific things you did*. That's what you fail to understand. You don't get punished for one or two comments. You get punished for **consistent, persistent, and continual** toxicity.
Sorry but this is simply false. If you called me an asshole once in game and I reported you. There IS a chance you would be penalized.
Julevi (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=LordierTengu,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EExIcG7n,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-03T05:04:06.129+0000) > > Am I the only one who feels the bans issued in this game from unsportsmanlike chat are ridiculous? > Take a look at the boards and you will find numerous people who share this belief. > Why is it that a player can be banned for petty things like arguing or expressing rage in some way or form. The problem with "arguing" is often how it's done and the overall tone of it. Sometimes it escalates into spam and sometimes two people are more interested in typing than paying attention to the game. But often the argumentation starts getting messy - insulting the other player or mocking them - therefore breaking the rules. > Riot feels their moral standards are absolute and if you type in anything remotely human you get hit with chat restrictions or bans. You get hit with a punishment when you break the rules - that's it. A videogame first purpose is providing fun and securing this entertainment is needed. Taking into account that the system orientates itself on past given data (e.g. tribunal-time), the beliefs of Riot and is constantly learning you have to acknowledge that a majority of players seem to have a problem with it - otherwise the system wouldn't look like it does now. As far as I know different regions even have different "standards" what triggers the system. > I've gotten penalties many times because I don't just hold my thoughts back when someone is 1/9 criticizing my game play. Why do I not have the right to speak my mind? Oh, you have every right to voice your opinions - but this has to hit a decent level. A lot of people complain that they can't defend themselves or argue or speak their mind and I have to disagree. The only thing Riot expects you to do is not start breaking the rules with it. For example - when someone starts attacking me for unjustified my lane (insults and pointing out stuff) and I start getting annoyed my answers often look like this: _"Dude, pay attention to your lane and I pay attention to mine. Everyone makes mistakes, calm down."_ and then I shrugg it off. This won't get punished. But looking at some punished chat-logs the tone is rather like that: _"idiot. 1/6 and talking?? we got camped and you had a free lane and still sucked." _ > I have spent countless hours and real life money on this game only for some sensitive kid behind his keyboard to have the power to prevent me from playing or typing because he hits the report button in attempt at revenge. Unreluctantly investing your time and earned money in a free game doesn't and shouldn't give you more freedom. Over 100 people could report you and nothing will happen when you sticked to the rules - feel free to take a look at threads where people requested their account-data and were surprised how often they actually got reported. > Why have the ability to chat at all, if everything is monitored and judged in a dystopian manner. First of all: it's a useful tool which expands the possibility of communicating with your team massively (tactical). Second of all talking can be entertaining - making new friends, lighten up the mood and so much more. > if someone can't handle what is literally not only normal on the internet but in real life why are they playing a game where socializing is one of its greatest merits. I always see this argumentation on threads like that - portraying people who report for mild toxicity as crybabys. Let me tell you: a lot of people can handle it but still prefer seeing the game without it. Just because I can handle my ADC who stands every 1-2 minutes still and raging in chat - but should I? I can handle pretty well when someone insults me (personally I barely mute someone) but should I? Even when people don't take a personal offence with that being-said it still leads to other things which could ruin the gameplay - spaming the chat and distracting your teammates, not participating in the game and so much more. Some things can be prevented when we mute other players - but this can be hard when the person overall does decent calls. > With that being said, I'm considering quitting this game due to these foolish standards and will explain why to the literal 100s of friends I have that play this game. Many of which will surely do the same because they play to spend time with me in a fun way. May you and all your friends find a game which entertains you a lot and share your opinions!
This was a great response. I sensed no hint of hatred for what I type I typed as I did in all the others so far. You truly answered me objectively and thoroughly. Though I must say why is "idiot. 1/6 and talking?? we got camped and you had a free lane and still sucked." a statement worthy of penalty. Because you used the word "idiot"? You spend the same time typing that as you would have the response you believe to more reasonable. Its okay that the vast majority of players feel the way you do and everyone else who has responded, If I am outnumbered in opinion that is okay with me. I only hope to get at least 1 person under the same realization I have acquired who did not accept or really firmly understand it before. This game and community truly has a weird culture of the simplest things being considered "toxic" or detrimental to the game. Just to clarify, I'm not the guy constantly raging on others and wondering why I'm getting penalized. I'm the guy that is saying, this is absurd. Simple chatting shouldnt be penalized when there is no sexual harassment, prejudice, or attacks on personal identity. I now see that Riot is only acting in response to their community.. which is vastly composed of sensitive people. I understand not wanting any unnecessary chatting in game but this is life. Life and people don't change just because you signed into a virtual server. This game may be an escape from a reality for most people, but it shouldn't get so bad as to paint an entirely distorted view of what is normal socializing.
: Riot doesn't want verbal toxicity in their game, because the many millions who don't like it far out number the "hundreds" of friends you have. Either follow the rules or leave. It's up to you. By the way, the part about all your friends quitting if you quit probably had the opposite effect of what you intended: if they share your sensibilities (i.e., equally toxic and unwilling to behave themselves), losing those players would be a boon to Riot, not a detriment. Riot doesn't want customers who drive many other customers away.
Thanks, I know it's up to me. I'm not here to seek guidance on that matter. Riot has done a good job of creating a cult like atmosphere of people who feel anything outside positive remarks and objective driven chat entries is considered toxic. Actually, I would bet a lot of money the same people defending their values are people who have suffered from actual social or mental disorders in real life (anxiety, depression, etc). You're not an asshole for calling someone out that finds it okay to bash you without you ever saying anything to them to begin with, and you're not an asshole for telling a troll they are ruining your experience and should get off. Games commonly take 25-40 minutes. You can win a ranked game in 40 minutes and have your points taken in the next game within 15 by a guy who is only there to laugh while intentionally ruining everyone elses experience.
: They are ridiculous. It's ridiculous that after nine fucking years Riot **still** has to issue them.
Seriously. I mean how do humans not evolve to the moral standards upheld by a video game company?
rujitra (NA)
: >Why is it that a player can be banned for petty things like arguing or expressing rage in some way or form. Because the vast majority of players believe this has no place in League of Legends. >and if you type in anything remotely human (because that's what free speech is), you get hit with chat restrictions or bans. No, that's not what free speech is. You have freedom of restrictions on speech from your government, not a private business or individual. Businesses and individuals can refuse service and/or kick you out for any reason they deem necessary (save for your membership in a protected class, of which asshole is not). Further, "being human" is not the same as being an asshole. >Why do I not have the right to speak my mind? You do. Riot also has the right to kick you off of their servers. >The line truly isn't that fine that Riot has to issue the same penalties for people that do seriously harass or speak in a prejudice way as those who are arguing. They don't. People with less severe toxicity take more games before they're finally punished. People with more severe toxicity are punished after less games. >This is a video game, not some political crossroads where we have to delegate superior moral behavior. Riot is not "delegating" (wrong use of this word, by the way, I'm not even sure what you were trying to say) anything. Riot is simply setting very common rules - don't be a dickwad, and you won't get banned. > I have spent countless hours and real life money on this game And this means you should have the right to ruin other customers' games? What if the person who you pissed off spent more money and/or time than you? >only for some sensitive kid behind his keyboard You mean you? You're being sensitive here - you are getting unhappy just because people want you to not be an asshole in game. You are also behind your own keyboard. > to prevent me from playing or typing because he hits the report button in attempt at revenge. You are not punished if you do not misbehave. You can be reported hundreds of times and if you don't misbehave you will not be punished. Simple way to not get punished - don't misbehave. Over 80% of players succeed at never getting a single punishment. >Why have the ability to chat at all, if everything is monitored and judged in a dystopian manner. Again, over 80% of players never get a single chat restriction, much less a temporary or permanent ban. Nothing is managed or judged in a "dystopian" manner. It's judged with the eye of "don't be an asshole". It's not hard. >it feels really bad to have it taken from you because of some petty social standard decided upon by other humans. I suggest you follow the rules of a community you decide to be a part of then. >but in all honesty if someone can't handle what is literally not only normal on the internet but in real life why are they playing a game where socializing is one of its greatest merits Being an asshole in real life is not "normal". You are free to socialize in League. I suspect highly that your form of "socializing" is something **you** consider normal but the rest of society in real life would consider vile, disturbing, and/or plain disruptive. >We're not all going to be these weird robots only promoting positive remarks like "gg! Well played! Good job!". Nobody expects you to. It takes a hell of a lot to get punished. I've had my moments in games where I say something that isn't really very nice. I have not gotten a single chat restriction ever across multiple accounts. You're allowed to screw up. But when your screw ups are either severe, consistent, or *per*sistent, it becomes a problem. >There has to be some level of criticism allowed There is. In fact, you will **never** be punished for **constructively** criticizing others in moderation and when it is merited. >and if argument will always result in penalty the initiator should be the one punished. Both players are participating in toxic behavior. Both players are at fault. Your lack of self control and your retaliatory nature are not other players' problems and other players should not have to suffer because of it. >With that being said, I'm considering quitting this game due to these foolish standards You are free to do so. I encourage you to reflect on this because society's standards are no different. In other words, you'll have a hard time in the real world if you think Riot's standards are "foolish". >and will explain why to the literal 100s of friends I have that play this game If your friends are normal, they may agree with you to your face, but in private they'll think you're an idiot and a jerk because you got punished and instead of accepting it and becoming a better person you decided to whine and moan about it. If they're toxic like you are, then Riot would rather them leave the game anyway, so you're doing them a favor. >Many of which will surely do the same because they play to spend time with me in a fun way. Why is your fun so much more important than that of the other 4 players on your team?
Your language in response to my statements is implying I'm sensitive or an asshole. Guess what? It doesn't bother me because this is what is means to be able to speak freely. It's hilarious how the exact way you've responded to my statements is the type of chatting that would get you penalized in game if I raged and hit the report button after game. Which is my point exactly. Also, I highly doubt my friends will think I'm an idiot for feeling a video game moderator didn't have a behavior bettering effect on my life. Highly doubt that statistic you threw up there btw, being a player for 3 years. It just seems unreasonable.. where did you get that from? Riot? As stated above no one is questioning whether Riot has the right or not, I'm discussing their use of that right. I appreciate you taking the time out of your day to address my post so thoroughly and found genuine amusement in your responses. Thank you for your time.
Sarutobi (NA)
: You get ban for petty reasons because as you said this is a video game. Its suppose to be meant to have fun and enjoy. People don't want to play a game and kept being told they are bad when they know they are. They are there to learn and improve just as you are. But when you keep pestering people about little things they add up. Yes everyone is human, people can rage but you seem t ok think the only way to show emotions like a human is to do so in chat when there are loads of ways to do that that doesn't require using the chatbox! The reason why we have a chat at all is because Riot believe in communication. They believe that you should be able to understand what is right and wrong to say in chat just as if you were at work, or any other place. If there are no rules in place then people would just stop playing the game and argue in chat all the time. All in all you are there to play a game. If you wanna chat there are other means to talk to people. Play the game and enjoy.
Your response is under the assumption everyone is getting penalized for randomly telling other players they are bad when they don't play to expectation. Furthermore, most players don't know think they are bad and are actually under the impression their success in that game is entirely dependent on their teammates(i.e not getting enough ganks, lack of wards, players feeding the enemy, etc). While it is true League of Legends is a team based game, individual skill surely has a lot to do with the success of your team. Who are you or Riot to dictate what is the proper way to show emotion? and why is the criticism of a player trolling and/or ruining your experience considered a simple display of emotion? If someone were at work and told me "hey your making us lose money by using all that paper!" meanwhile its obvious they use much more than me, I would have no problem stating "Actually you use more paper than me". This isnt considered harassment by any degree isn't even the language of someone looking to fight. Your mentality toward this is pretty mainstream in this game where even the slightest form of conflict in chat log is viewed as detrimental to the game. I'm not asking for the complete disbandment of rules. Clearly sexual harassment, prejudice, and things like that should be penalized. I do disagree though that the rules are what's keeping people from halting game play entirely and just arguing in chat box. That seems a bit far fetched.
: You have the right to speak your mind, however a business also has the right to enforce the rules or guidelines they have in place. Free speech is the **GOVERNMENT** cannot impose on your right to speak, pensing matters of safety (such as shouting "Fire!" In a public theater if there is no fire).
Are you seriously suggesting that the ability to judge and limit speech is acceptable simply because the entity in subject is a business and not the government? It's 2019, shouldn't we be at the stage in life where talking isn't something potentially imposed upon with made up rules? If you're speaking objectively and stating the fact that Riot has the right to enforce whatever rules they desire, I understand that. My post isn't questioning whether they have the right or not but rather hoping to open discussion about their use of that right.
Rioter Comments

LordierTengu

Level 125 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion