Eedat (NA)
: Why exactly? This board has become an extreme vocal minority whose opinions do not reflect that of the majority of players. For example, I did an experiment. I made a thread here about TT then copy pasted it to the reddit. Here, the thread is sitting at -1. There, it is sitting at +7900 with 92% upvote rating. This board is so tiny that if someone even mentions a thread in a reasonable size discord then the complete entirety of this board's opinions become meaningless. A lot of work has to be done to this board if it ever wants to be taken seriously and even then there is no guarantee it will ever come back. This board slowly died over years and it might take years more to rebuild even with changes. With the current route this board is going it'll stay dead forever
Really wish they would've just kept the forums. It was so much better organized and easier to post, especially about alternative maps/game modes.
: When will Riot admit that modern assassins are too forgiving?
Personally, I feel like mages are the safest picks in the game, while being the most rewarding. Burst is the name of the game these days, and mages do this the best and the most reliably. I would say assassins are second to mages in terms of general low risk/high reward gameplay, the gap between them being quite wide.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lovelle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Gzk2oLNX,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-08-10T08:17:16.978+0000) > > 1. Revert the rune system back to the old one, make all the runes free and remove the tiers. Remove the keystones from masteries, it's just tacked on power that no one actually needs. Agreed. I thought Runes Reforged would have been better simply by making all runes available to all players. No need for gimmicks - I mean, keystones. > 2. Nerf Black Cleaver by reducing the CDR or removing/reworking the armor shred. Remove the penetration from Morellonomicon. I believe CDR nerf is the way to go. Armor shred is unique to {{item:3071}} , and having noticible windows of opportunity is good for counter-play. It's too easy to get to 40% CDR, and Bruisers/Off-Tanks should have to give up some offensive stats to opt-in to CDR. Meaningful choices makes for a more interesting game! By the same token, the MPen on {{item:3165}} is the only combat item to give flat MPen in the game and probably should be kept. I am aware of {{item:3020}}, but every champ except {{champion:69}} buys some kind of boots. Not all champs buy the book. > 3. Bring back Dominion, keep Twisted Treeline, all alternative game modes are now available in customs. I agree, there is no good reason why this should not happen. But how does this help balancing SR and improving Champ Identities? > 4. Bring back map-specific balancing, but only like twice a season at most. The alternative modes tend to be fine without constant updates (that more than likely won't actually improve anything). Same as response to #3 XD
It doesn't, but would keep me interested in the game for sure.
: I use to take Legend: Tenacity on Darius all the time, but was frustrated with my lack of damage and switched to Legend: Alacrity and have definitely noticed I do a lot more damage. Would make sense I don't notice the lack of the tenacity rune since most CC doesn't last long enough for it to do much on top of Mercs and Steraks.
Yeah, I would rather have the lifesteal from Bloodline as I play a lot of Trundle and he gets enough attack speed from his W, but fitting lifesteal into his build is hard without sacrificing durability. If burst damage wasn't so crazy then tenacity would probably feel a lot better as a stat.
: How would YOU bring balance to the game?
1. Revert the rune system back to the old one, make all the runes free and remove the tiers. Remove the keystones from masteries, it's just tacked on power that no one actually needs. 2. Nerf Black Cleaver by reducing the CDR or removing/reworking the armor shred. Remove the penetration from Morellonomicon. 3. Bring back Dominion, keep Twisted Treeline, all alternative game modes are now available in customs. 4. Bring back map-specific balancing, but only like twice a season at most. The alternative modes tend to be fine without constant updates (that more than likely won't actually improve anything).
: Do tenacity runes even work? Are they placebo runes?
I've never noticed a difference with it, but I do notice when I don't take Bloodline, even in the early game.
: Frustrated from trying to find a champ that fits me
Those days are pretty much gone, and probably never to return. For tanks, I would avoid not building any damage because resistances have no late game scaling right now. Most of the late game dps champions have received early game buffs to compensate for the meta. I would say damage takes priority over defense right now, even on tanks. However, you don't want to neglect resistances entirely. This is one of my least favorite seasons as well, as I don't enjoy playing any of the champs that thrive in this meta.
: she needs to be reverted
This, they somehow made her more binary/problematic than she was before her most recent rework.
JoroA (EUW)
: What are your 5 most hated champions in order?
1. {{champion:67}} 2. {{champion:114}} 3. {{champion:99}} 4. {{champion:43}} 5. {{champion:161}} They are all hell to deal with for the champs I play, no matter who is playing them. {{champion:74}} gets honorable mention, but at least I don't see him that often. Makes me hate this game whenever I run into a main though.
KazKaz (OCE)
: Do you really though? Especially against the two champs I've mentioned...
Getting your ass kicked is the best way to learn your champ's weaknesses, along with what builds don't work. Going against diamond+ and M7 players makes playing against normal players a breeze. You get better without even realizing it, assuming your goal is to actually improve. If I can do it with a champ like Trundle (who has a plethora of exploitable weaknesses in this high burst meta), you can definitely do it with Irelia. She has the capacity to take teams apart near-singlehandedly when played well.
KazKaz (OCE)
: So sick of people playing their m7 mains in norms....
Some of us only play normal games. The problem is that ARAM, SR and TT are too damn snowball-heavy, where a couple early mistakes cost you the whole game. Dominion and Ascension used to be perfect modes for getting used to new champions, because of the short game length, lack of snowballing, and reaching full build pretty much every game. Why Riot got rid of those modes is beyond me.
: Pyke has officially taken Yasuos place as my most hated champion.
The main thing I don't like about Pyke is how hard he is to punish for being out-of-position, whereas he can always punish you for making even the slightest mistake. Unless you can lock him AND burst him simultaneously he's just going win trades 1v1 and in teamfights. It's like he's playing a different game than less mobile champions, especially melees.
YBaKunt (NA)
: Armor is extremely under powered. Lethalty is OP.
{{item:3071}} {{item:3033}} {{item:3036}} These are why your armor feels useless. I personally feel Cleaver no longer needs its armor shred passive. It's still a good item even without it and there is enough damage in the game that it can afford to lose it. Most of the champs that build it either have %max HP, free penetration, true damage, or damage scaling sustain anyway, so they don't need the shred. Nerfing penetration would a great start toward balancing the game.
iDarkWind (EUW)
: I'm pretty sure that just bringing back the old runes system would fix everything.
It wouldn't fix close to everything, but it would be a good start.
: Why League of Legends is still a very good game
As a player of the alternative game modes (Dominion, Twisted Treeline, Ascension) I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately, Riot cares little (if at all) about players that have no interest in Summoner's Rift. If you don't like what the majority likes, Riot just doesn't care. It's comparable to how Blizzard and EA treat their playerbases. There's also the favoritism when it comes to balancing champions, itemization, skin sales, I could go on. From my perspective it just seems like Riot doesn't care at all, and are basically telling me to go play another game, especially after they remove Twisted Treeline. We're losing yet another game mode for literally no good reason. We have significantly less game mode variety 2019 then we did in 5-6 years ago, which makes absolutely no sense.
: Think we could buff Frozen Heart and Glacial Shroud? Give some better stats for a small price-up?
Frozen Heart has always been one of my favorite armor items, so I'm all for buffs.
: Bruisers are broken
Not all bruisers are the same. There is a large difference between Jax/Irelia and Darius/Trundle.
: Played since beta; First you remove Dominon, now TT?
Completely agree and they deserve every player they lose over these dumb, greedy, shortsighted decisions. When they remove TT I'm probably switching over to DOTA.
: bring back dominion as a short lived mode
Imagine having to beg for a temporary game mode.
: Is it just me or are people slowly not playing league anymore?
Certainly doesn't help that Riot is removing Twisted Treeline. Once its gone I'm probably switching over to DOTA. I've been thinking about it for a while, but once my third favorite game mode is gone (the first two being Dominion and Ascension) I'll have no reason to stay here. DOTA pretty much does most of the things I've wanted from LoL for years. Unlike Riot, they don't completely neglect their casual playerbase, so they have a lot of variety when it comes to alternative/custom maps & modes.
: Sion QoL change -- Make his ultimate zoom out (like on Nunu's snowball)
He needs more than that right now in all honesty. There's nothing in his kit (or tank itemization) that helps him deal with Conquerer abusers and/or high sustain champs like Darius and Aatrox. If you go tank, you do no damage to them, while still getting destroyed in seconds. He needs something in his kit that rewards him for building tanky, either that or he needs much better damage scaling.
: Watching the best Garen get smashed by the best Trynd is hilarious!
Needs a rework honestly, has a very binary/annoying design.
: The Reason Tanks Aren't Played Often
I don't think even the armor items are that great outside of the {{item:3024}} upgrades. Outside of that, I don't really feel rewarded for building armor save for the first 10-15 minutes of the game, and that's assuming the opposing AD isn't fed. Past that point, I find myself getting out-sustained with a tank build, while not dealing enough damage, especially against Conquerer users. I mainly play Trundle and Sion, so maybe it's different for other champs.
: GRAVES IS BEING BUFFED! WTF?!
It's decent in like the first 20 minutes (and assuming the opposing AD isn't fed) so this is clearly an early game buff.
Barkley (NA)
: Please stop saying "I'm X higher rank on my main"
Say that to my main and see what happens.
: The game is such a coin flip, it's embarrassing.
I experience this even in 3v3 normals, and because the playerbase is significantly smaller it's much easier to pick up on, as you eventually end up playing with the same people pretty often. The only reliable way to deal with this is to spam meta champs and/or champs with overloaded, do-it-all kits. I don't do either of these, so I just deal with it and accept my general lack of control. I would imagine things are significantly worse for SR, as the matchmaking system has much larger player pool to account for.
: Looks like the enemy team's hypercarries got fed and then killed you. Did you expect to live forever against that? Do you think that would have been a fair outcome? I checked [this match](https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3112284654/33518097) in your match history, and it told me two things. First, the enemy's carries were specifically geared toward on-hit true damage, whose purpose is to deal with tanks. However, they still built defensive items, so apparently defense isn't as useless as you claim. Second, I hate the official Match History site because many matches are simply broken, including this one: the "champion kills" feature does nothing, and the "builds" tab doesn't show at all. That's the most fucked-up part of this whole situation, in my opinion. And that's on top of a terrible interface in general. The match listing is a fancy modern infinite scrolling piece of trash, individual matches can't be opened in a new tab, navigating back to the match listing doesn't save your spot in it so you have to scroll down to where you were all over again every time, and navigating back often doesn't even work so you have to refresh the listing. But it seems to be the only way to get a standalone page for an individual match with its own link, and you can view builds and a K/D map for every player in a match _when the feature works_, so we're basically stuck with this trash. And that's the official one. Ugh.
You get 3 seconds to live against them at most, as a tank. Why bother with that bs when you can just play a real damage dealer?
: {{champion:89}} {{champion:48}}
As a Trundle main I can confirm picking him blindly is a painful experience, especially these days. I am also a masochist.
: Sorry to break it to you, but focusing on the numbers is the right thing to do for a company. What people say in here in the boards doesn't really matter all that much, since we are the vocal minority. If you really want to make decisions the majority of the playerbase benefits from, then you have to focus on surveys and statistics. That's just how this works. Also: Making an event with TT specific missions will most likely not lure many people into the game mode. I could imagine that the majority of people would do what I am doing in these situations: play the game mode until the missions are finished for the rewards, then go back to Summoner's Rift and ignore TT again until they "force" me to play the mode again for free loot. I know it sucks for the people who liked the game mode, but if it really is as unpopular as Riot tells us, then deleting it to make room for other stuff is the right call here.
Hate to break to you, but there won't be any other stuff. They made the exact same promise when they removed Dominion back in 2014, and look at all the game mode variety we have now to make up for it. Look at how many people have been happy with Riot's SR and ARAM balance changes/updates. A tiger doesn't change its stripes, things are not going to get better.
JackMcCarry (EUNE)
: That's a good deflection. "Riot neglected the mode that's why it died" "But even when they updated it people didnt care" "Oh that's because update bad" You realise it doesnt matter right? ARAM and SR had bad updates aswell, difference is people cared and made it known, on TT, this is literally the first time i hear that the redesign was bad, did you see the mess of old TT? Regardless, if people cared, Riot would keep supporting the mode, people didnt, not back then, not now, it never had it's "glory days".
There were multiple threads about it on the forums. Once we switched over to boards, and Riot removed the "Maps & Modes" section, it has been very difficult to discuss anything not related to SR, which in turn makes it easy for them to remove alternative modes they don't want to support, while bringing up some BS statistics and saying no one plays and/or cares about them. They've planned to get rid of the mode for years most likely, with all the little things they done to make sure it remains obscure, that few have paid attention to.
: in low elo. once you get past bronze it basically goes away
This. I've literally never seen a bot in a normal game and I've been playing 3v3 near exclusively since 2011.
rujitra (NA)
: They haven't done anything significant with it because TT has always been the secondary mode. Obviously resources will be put towards Summoners Rift first. Furthermore, no matter what they do, people just don't play TT. Why should they spend days of work doing anything for a mode that is played by so few people, when they could spend that time balancing or bugfixing SR?
I can see those "resources" for Summoner's Rift have been put to good use.
Jbels (NA)
: Retiring Twisted Treeline is a Step in the Wrong Direction.
They didn't even throw balance changes at it honestly, at least not ones that mattered. They made some price reductions to crit itemization a long time ago, and tried to nerf funneling (a big problem on 3v3) but failed to do so. Apart from that, they haven't done anything for TT. People mentioned years ago that Riot would probably remove TT like they did with Dominion. Looks like they were right. If DOTA can have variety when it comes to alternative/custom game modes, I don't understand why LoL can't, especially since it has a bigger playerbase than DOTA.
: Why would you remove TT?
TT is the only fast mode left, where you can queue up and pretty much play what you want. With it gone, there will be nothing but ARAM and SR, neither of which I'm fond of. I mean, I could understand if it was being replaced with something remotely similar, but it's not. Been playing LoL for 8 years, but now I'm being forced to quit because my favorite/main game mode is being taken away. I hate the way Riot treats the non SR portions of its playerbase. Any other game company wouldn't be able to get away with this. Words alone cannot explain my frustration.
Pika Fox (NA)
: Theyre removing it because even when they did have changes going it didnt bring anyone in to play. Nexus blitz had a far higher participation rate, and they opted not to continue that. Only makes sense to remove tt as well. Really need them to add something when its removed though, else it will just feel like a stupid removal. Id be fine with removing tt and adding nb instead.
That's because, back in 2012, most TT players didn't like the changes. However, instead of listening to feedback Riot decided to basically ignore the mode. They tried to make some minor changes, between that time and now, to nerf funneling but it didn't solve anything. That's it. No changes to the horrid snowballing, no map-specific champ balancing, nothing. The last time they did any champ balancing for the mode was pre 2012.
: My Biggest Gripe About Twisted Treelines (TT) Upcoming Removal
It's just typical Riot playing favorites as always. A lot of the players, from the old Dominion forums, that stopped playing this game were smart. They saw all of this coming years ago. You can go over to the old forums and see them making the same complaints that are commonly made about Riot's decisions now. I've hung around all this time with the small hope that Riot would change for the better and not become just another soulless business. Guess I was wrong again.
: Can we finally buff vision?
Trundle's Pillar had its vision removed, which I am still salty about to this day. I mainly play 3v3, where there is practically no vision (yet the mode is exponentially more snowball heavy than SR), so that change really friggin hurt.
: What's the point of keeping Twisted Treeline if the gameplay is flawed anyway?
Because we already have so few game modes as it is. When Riot removed Dominion they promised lots of improvements to Summoner's Rift and the Rotating Game Modes to make up for it. They haven't followed through on either of those things since the map was removed in 2014. Next it will likely be ARAM or TFT if people ever get tired of playing it.
Eedat (NA)
: The last big update for TT was in season 5. They were using the 2012 update as _**an example**_. Here is the point they were trying to make before you decided you wanted to twist it so you could rage out. Any time they put effort in to TT it has zero results. When they did a huge update in 2012 it had no results. When they did an update in season 5 it had no results. Whenever they did an update any time it had no results. They done sweeps of basic things to items to champions and still nobody plays TT. Not then, not now, not ever. People don't like playing it. It is and always was a dead mode. There's going to be minor pushback for a month then almost nobody will care anymore, just like dominion.
Oh there were results, a lot of players were angry with the changes and started a petition to bring back the old map and/or have it reverted. Riot not only didn't listen, but proceeded to basically ignore the mode for years after that. No one even asked for them to change the entire map, but to change the base layout and the random jungle camps. They made the map objectively worse to play after the 2012 update, then basically proceeded to let it rot. EDIT: Here's the thread http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2694690
: A actual look at what can be done to make Treeline draw in more players
More consistent updates would be a start, along with some map-specific balancing, neither of which they've done in years.
R0XTAR (NA)
: Petition to keep Twisted Treeline a permanent mode
I'm not even surprised at this point honestly. The map has a ton of issues that have never been fixed by them since the 2012 changes. Most TT players didn't like the changes even back then, and If they didn't pay attention to the petition back on the forums for TT changes, I highly doubt they'll do it now. They care _even less_ now then they did back then. If TT is removed, I guess I'll have to uninstall this game once and for all. I've experienced nothing but disappointment from Riot since 2012, along with Dominion's removal (2014). Not everyone wants to play Summoner's Rift, and if you're among the few that feels this way Riot is basically like "well screw you guys." I feel that, there's plenty of other games out there, I have quite the backlog to complete anyway.
: Save the Twisted Treeline!
Why am I not surprised? First they take Dominion from me, now they're taking TT. Assuming they don't replace it with Ascension, I'll no longer have a reason to play this game with it gone.
: Wait until everyone's screaming for nerfs in a month because of how overloaded they're gunna make him.
Can't wait for new and improved Panth to man-drop me with %max health damage.
Εlin (EUW)
: You're only allowed to play one champion for the rest of your life.
{{champion:48}} Troll King now and forever. EDIT: Or until Twisted Treeline (the one map I still enjoy) is removed.
: I love League's champions, but hate the current gameplay
Agreed, the smallest mistake equals death, unless you're playing a mobile champ.
: can we talk about why jax is so strong with 1 item?
Most likely Conquerer, and Trinity Force is expensive as hell, but the tradeoff is a massive powerspike once it's completed. Jax is pretty strong into auto-attack champs like Tryn. I would just avoid trying to 1v1 him.
: If it was melee only it might work out, however we still should likely think about how such an item would shift the game in general. Tanks are fairly frail at the moment and introducing another item that empowers the more damage focused characters while leaving the tanks in the dust will only further drop their relevance. Truthfully I'm not against the idea itself as more items make for more diversity but I think that we still have some bigger priorities to handle first.
The alternatives are as follows 1. Buff defensive itemization and scaling 2. Give the Resolve tree some real defensive scaling , such as %damage reduction (like the pre-keystone masteries used to provide) 3. Nerf penetration and/or remove it from some items, such as Black Cleaver, Morellonomicon and Void Staff I don't really see Riot doing any of the above without some staff and/or perspective changes, which is why I suggested adding more damage-oriented armor items. Since Riot seems to favor everything having damage attached to it these days, it falls in line with their current design philosophy. I've wished for them to improve defensive scaling for years now, but it's like beating a dead horse. They just add more damage to the game every season.
: It's unlikely to happen simply because it would ruin bot lane's balance. The first person who can afford it will buy it and be able to both tank the opponent and output more damage. It's the same reason why there aren't many ad/armor items.
SR bot lane ruining everything as always, I wasn't aware that lane even could be balanced. If that's the case, why not make the item melee only? Even if it wasn't, as long as the damage scaled with levels, like {{item:3091}}, it wouldn't be ideal to rush, even for the champions it scaled best with.
Rioter Comments
Moody P (NA)
: Tank items are too passive to be satisfying
The armor options in general are pretty underwhelming. Really wish they would bring back an armor/attack speed on-hit item for champions like Trundle, Shyv, Udyr to help deal with the crazy AD burst in the game, because armor without damage attached to it hardly has any worth. At least MR items feel somewhat rewarding with items like Wit's End, Spirit Visage, Mercurial Scimitar and Maw of Malmortius. Armor items don't have anything like that beyond Guardian Angel, which is really only good on ADCs and assassins (and can only be built on SR). If Riot intends to let damage outscale defense as heavily as it does, then they need to start introducing armor items with damage on them. Mages get to have armor and ability power, so why can't bruisers have decent offensive armor options?
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Lovelle

Level 76 (NA)
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