: Thematically champ reworks should be kept close to the original. Riot catches alot of flack (and they should) for their VGUs outright deleting the old character from the game. And not just at a kit level either. A VGU should play, sound and look like the old character just modernized. Changing anything in major way will ruin what some people loved them for.
> [{quoted}](name=Hong Kong Annie,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=qZeIs3QI,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-10-26T01:16:37.212+0000) > > Thematically champ reworks should be kept close to the original. Riot catches alot of flack (and they should) for their VGUs outright deleting the old character from the game. And not just at a kit level either. A VGU should play, sound and look like the old character just modernized. Changing anything in major way will ruin what some people loved them for. The only people downvoting you are people who don't actually care about what is lost during reworks that remove essences from champions. Which infuriates me, tbh. They have nothing to lose because they never cared in the first place. I wholly agree with you.
: Sooner or later, we are going to have to see the ruined king in game
Put Old Aatrox's playstyle on the Ruined King. Make him a lifestealing melee hypercarry that's aggressive and rewarded for building attack speed. The Ruined King not being able to use his own item would be really dumb imo.
: I don't think either of these champs qualifies. Melee diving + lifesteal != old {{champion:266}} just on its own. Blood Well management was a very unique, enjoyable, skill-based mechanic that gave him a unique feel unlike any other champion, and with which he could do things unlike any other champion from a very early level if played correctly. I miss him too, for what it's worth. And I think it is among the more unfortunate timing on reworks - he was reworked because he had temporarily fallen out of favor and was considered a "failed" design, but quite literally just as his rework was being released he had already become pick-or-ban in the pros again due to shifts in the meta and quite possibly would not have been remembered as "failed" at all if that meta had been allowed to progress.
Thank you. Many people look at surface level similarity and just make a quick judgment, but old Aatrox had so many unique ideas and mechanics that have just been removed forever. Playing Xin Zhao and old Aatrox were two completely different feelings.
: Please Bring Back Old Aatrox
I miss him so much. I love new Aatrox and I've grown attached to him for sure, but I miss back in 2015-2017 when I felt the rush of finding a new main that really resonated with me. No one will capture me more than old Aatrox.
: You're only allowed to play one champion for the rest of your life.
Old {{champion:266}} If that's not allowed, {{champion:41}}
: Aatrox's primary problem's him having so much untapped potential
Here I am in patch 9.14 and I just feel like any shred of the old Aatrox is gone. I remember upvoting this post many years ago and hoping Riot would deliver upon a thematic fantasy worthy of a visceral and dexterous swordsman warlord. I wanna go back to the "Aatrox rework concept post" days. I hate what they've done to my old favorite champion and no one in the game gives me the same feeling as old Aatrox once did.
: How many times do I have to respond to this. His Revive wasn't his Identity, never on the pre Rework, nor on this Rework. It was always about being a drain tank.
> [{quoted}](name=SuicidePlank,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=WbBfO65N,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-17T19:47:40.601+0000) > > How many times do I have to respond to this. > His Revive wasn't his Identity, never on the pre Rework, nor on this Rework. > It was always about being a drain tank. Yet they decided that it was the only thing they were going to keep about old Aatrox.
: Shadow Prince Malzahar's Spells should be golden like in the splash art
Lmao if they're not going to do a simple purple VFX recolor for Lordekaiser (975 skin btw), they're not going to do it for Malzahar.
Mitsuk3 (EUW)
: But Varus got no lifesteal lol.
> [{quoted}](name=Mitsuk3,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RY407bkl,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-07-13T09:44:44.919+0000) > > But Varus got no lifesteal lol. Varus also wasn't made to be a Darkin in the beginning. That was shoehorned in later.
usul1202 (NA)
: What's your 'it happened in a dream' skin?
: PSA: Shaco is not a strong early-game champion. This was changed in 2016.
[Oh wow, imagine that.](https://i.gyazo.com/09f63212f9a31c2040a111570efabb8f.png)
: Most unfun champ to go against?
{{champion:420}} Idk how people haven't mentioned her dumb ass. Literally if you get hit by ONE of her E's, half your health is gone, forcing you to retreat from your wave. By the time you come back, she'll have it up again, simply allowing her to repeat the entire process.
: Akali needs to be fucking fixed.
Lol, looks like you got thrashed in your most recent game and decided to post an angry rant on the boards about your own anecdotal experience. Akali is actually way strong in upper elo where people can manage to utilize her full potential. She's getting nerfs because lo and behold, she's too strong.
Zeanix (OCE)
: So many skin opportunities with Mordekaiser’s new ult
Elderwood. A gnarled old forest with leaves falling down.
: How about being a decent human being and not screwing the gaming experience of your 4 teammates more than you already did ?
: No incentive to return from an accidental AFK
How in the actual fuck is there no system to detect whether or not you manually exited the game, or if the game crashed either from lag or another reason beyond your control? Is it harder than I'm making it sound, or something?
: Remember {{champion:266}} is literally {{champion:92}}
Aatrox is like Riven but more manly and less of a bitch.
: Or just buff his normal kit so you dont have to rework his ult
The ultimate is a ton of his power budget though. His normal kit can't be buffed without shifting around his power budget. The fact he gets a free revive and tower dive, and forces enemies to deal with his presence, and then resetting tower aggro after he revives is very unhealthy.
A7A gg (NA)
: Why ekko doesnt taunt taliyah
Ekko was released before Taliyah was.
: Buff his base stats to compete with other juggernauts Buff his healing to Rhaast levels Buff his base damages so he doesn't have to build like Riven just to have less damage than her and be less tanky, maybe nerf his ratios to balance it out Riot will never do these things though, they'll let him die{{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
1. Sure 2. Yes 3. No.
: Elderwood Needs to be introduced again
Elderwood {{champion:83}} would be amazing. Imagine a gnarled ancient looking ent maiden.
d00mface (EUW)
: Aatrox, my favorite boy
I preferred the old Aatrox. I enjoy new Aatrox as he is, but I don't like how he had to replace the old one.
QMighty (NA)
: It's gotta be one of these four: {{champion:82}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:106}} ... or one of these four: {{champion:82}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:82}}
> [{quoted}](name=QMighty,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=J8tOzbOu,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2019-01-22T17:17:05.367+0000) > > It's gotta be one of these four: {{champion:82}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:106}} > ... > or one of these four: {{champion:82}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:23}}
: Yasuo has been my most killed champion 3 years in a row
Same lmao. I've played a lot of him so I know how to slam dunk his ass.
: > [{quoted}](name=Luminier,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=mMUefayi,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-01-09T22:14:07.876+0000) > > Yeah, this has bothered me since the rework. Also, his walking animation was bugged for the longest time. I logged on PBE to test Blood Moon Aatrox this morning, and it seems his walk loop has been fixed. If that's really the case, then I'm glad that it's finally been fixed. Unfortunately I can't really check for myself.
Nah, I just checked. It's only fixed for Blood Moon Aatrox, for some reason. Wtf?
: Riot's at it again! Blatant over the top sexualized champion! Sylas the Magic of Hunky Studs
This has honestly just made me realize I'd rather have no one complaining about it, on either side... For men or women. It's a game, it's fantasy. Of course you want to identify with someone who is attractive in a **fantasy** game.
: Just a question about Aatrox's joke/taunt
Yeah, this has bothered me since the rework. Also, his walking animation was bugged for the longest time. I logged on PBE to test Blood Moon Aatrox this morning, and it seems his walk loop has been fixed.
: > [{quoted}](name=Luminier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TKTFBkEQ,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-11-27T14:00:41.379+0000) > > {{champion:266}} Good point.
Not trying to say he was treated worse than Yorick per se, but he really got fucking shafted
: I dont know what you are talking about. Arcane magic is horrid and evil, and radiant magic is different because its from gods one is inherent power and requirres practice, the other is gained from trust and worship. Garen is styled after a paladin after all. But he doesnt worship anyone you say he worships himself dude, he worships his own godly self
faith vs int builds
Skorch (NA)
: A change to Yasuo
I believe on release it used to do this. His flow bar was yellow(?) when full.
: He's gone dude. That's what happened to him. He's just completely gone. I can't think of a single champion who was treated worse than Yorick. At least Sion is still fun to play, and even fun to play against. At least Poppy kept most of her kit. At least Galio kept parts of his kit, too, but Yorick? He kept absolutely nothing. He plays nothing like Yorick, he looks nothing like Yorick, sounds nothing like Yorick, and most importantly? He's not even any fucking fun to play, and even less fun to play against. Yorick used to be an uncommon sight in my games, but now? He's as rare as Old Sion was. Having played a lot of both Yorick and Galio myself, I can only imagine how devastating it was for you to come back, only to find the champion that you played the most had been completely removed, and replaced with an empty, hollow husk. Maybe one day, when/if enough people band together, we can see Yorick again, and Galio, and all the other champions that Riot has been removing from their game over the years, or at the least, we can see them get real, PROPER reworks.
>I can't think of a single champion who was treated worse than Yorick. {{champion:266}}
CytheGuy (NA)
: Kinda fun to watch the Boards right about now
For real it's a big ass clown fiesta and it's fun watching people collectively lose their shit
: I say this as a meme response, but ... {{champion:122}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:126}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:236}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:5}} To name a few.
Don't forget {{champion:157}} and his beautiful pantene locks.
: Solar/Lunar Elipse Login
Wow. The calm and soothing nature of the song, which transitions into the sweeping bombastic climax at 1:07 is just amazing. Absolutely my favorite login screen they've ever done.
Ahrinn (NA)
: Apparent "leaks" about Riot's upcoming plans for champs and skins
I want the storm/cloud mage thing to be real. I absolutely love that thematic. Storm powers are like my favorite thing ever.
Jøker (NA)
: Nobody knows what relic shield does
Lol wtf what elo are you? I've literally never had this problem. Not saying you're incorrect, or anything, I've just actually never had to deal with that level of dumbassery.
: Got some folks looking into it! (:
  Rioter Comments
Galiö (NA)
: Reav3 on retiring champions... interesting.
Old {{champion:266}} main. I sympathize with old Galio mains. Didn't use to, but I understand them completely now.
: > [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U8MtVjYr,comment-id=000b0001,timestamp=2018-10-14T20:30:03.043+0000) > > 1) no he didn't, aatrox was fine, his only flaw was not being marketable > > 2) new aatrox is 10x more toxic Old Aatrox did not have a gameplay identity. "Dude who attacks really fast and heals from it. But he also has a GA passive!" is not an identity. {{champion:5}} , {{champion:19}} , {{champion:77}} , & {{champion:2}} had that playstyle on lock. {{champion:11}} &{{champion:23}} also a very similar gameplay loop as well, being "fast attacking duelists" who benefit heavily from life steal. Aatrox didn't have an identity. He was just a couple of different aspects of otherwise very similar champions cobbled together, given a nonsensical GA passive, and set loose on the rift. With the exception of {{champion:23}} , every single one of the mentioned champions have received at least one rework (in some cases majorly, in others more minorly) to combat their innately stat-check profiles and make them a little more interactive to play against or as. You'll also notice that all of the mentioned reworks solidified a part of their identity, doubling down on it. {{champion:19}} as the relentless hunter who chases down wounded prey and, like a cornered animal, becomes more dangerous when wounded. {{champion:2}} being the unstoppable force who rushes through hell to kill his foe, completely unstoppable inescapable. {{champion:5}} being the penultimate diver who leaps onto a chosen enemy, clears the stage, and runs them through with his spear. {{champion:11}} being a snowbally piece of shit. So what does that leave Aatrox? The hunter, the duelist, the unstoppable reckless killing machine, the piece of shit everyone hates. We have so many variations of drain-tank diver that it was crowded out. There wasn't any more ground to explore. And Aatrox personality.. didn't exist. His entire taunt line up - all fucking 5 of them - were "Fight and be a hero or die and be a cowrd" with a few extra words. His entire personality was "FIGHT ME!" but elegant word choice. So they doubled down on that. Newtrox is still the same "FIGHT ME!" guy, with the same impressive vocabulary and somewhat poetic speech patterns, but he's given a reason for it beyond War-Is-Cool. Gameplay wise they went with, again, the only thing they had. "FIGHT ME!" As an ancient body-snatching swordsmen who hates mortals and sees them as nothing more than upstart insects, his kit is built around proving that he's more skilled than his enemies. His kit flows surprisingly well, and represents a lethal duelist well (MUCH better than {{champion:114}} 's rework does) who wants to work his enemies over, show that he's better than them, and then kill them once they're humiliated. This is achieved well, because an Aatrox who works you over with hitting every edge of his Q has indisputably out-played you. {{champion:266}} is an entirely new champion yes, but there wasn't much of a champion to start with. If you really want to play oldtroxx then just go pick up Xin or something, it's almost exactly the same gameplay with very subtle difference.
> [{quoted}](name=MorganFreemanBot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U8MtVjYr,comment-id=000b00010000,timestamp=2018-10-14T22:02:32.485+0000) > {{champion:266}} is an entirely new champion yes, but there wasn't much of a champion to start with. If you really want to play oldtroxx then just go pick up Xin or something, it's almost exactly the same gameplay with very subtle difference. Yeah, you sound like you never played a game of old Aatrox in your life. It's like comparing new Aatrox to Riven. They sound similar on paper but they play completely differently.
Dat Kat (EUW)
: Shout out to every {{champion:266}} main that got shit on by this guy's work.
Yeah, feelsbad. By my personal definition (and probably a good chunk of others), a good rework preserves a champion's personality and playstyle and enhances on it. Aatrox is both completely different in terms of personality and gameplay, and not for the better for anyone who loved him before. By my definition, the Aatrox rework was a failure.
: Why don't we have more Ornn masterwork items?
The only thing I feel that's missing is {{item:3153}}. On-hit champions have no options, and while I understand that they don't want Ornn's items to benefit ALL champions, there's a sizable chunk of champions that don't get any benefits from Ornn items. I'd argue that being able to safely incorporate a masterwork item into your build because there was an option for you, but your {{champion:11}} not being able to is unfair.
d0riyah (NA)
: don't forget your boy {{champion:266}} *sniff* my boy anyways {{item:3070}}
Man I miss him so much. Nothing will capture the feeling of slicing down everyone with my big ass sword at light speed like old Aatrox. I'll never experience anything like that in league again.
Tamur (NA)
: Yorick Skin idea
Very cool idea. Guardian of the Sands would also be a good skin line for Yorick, imo.
: The new Titans show is probably going to suck
This is why respecting the source material is important.
: Made Plat for the first time!
Cool stuff! I usually just climb and sit at Gold 5 for the ranked rewards. But as more time passes, I have a yearning to climb more. I just need to sit down and focus on climbing one of these days. I think enough time has passed and I've learned a lot about the game, enough to make it to Platinum, and POSSIBLY Diamond if I really worked for it.
Rioter Comments
: We nerfed him since he was 58% winrate up until around silver MMR. We typically focus explicitly on plat+, but there are certain bounds at which we take action for lower level play as well. Doesn't make it easy, or feel good, Internal metrics still have him around 54 in low MMR, and around 53 high MMR. I'll need to double check those metrics though, since the post below this from ShirukuSama has him sitting at 47% according to lolalytics which is a pretty big discrepancy between what you guys are seeing and what we were looking at. Makes for a painful perception mismatch for sure. For context usually the delta is closer to ~1-2% between external sites and our own dashboards
Can you guys please re-evaluate the Yorick nerfs and reassess where he really needs to be nerfed? Maybe his raw damage didn't need a nerf. That doesn't just hurt him in low elo, it hurts him all across the board. Ghouls are frustrating to play against due to their ridiculously small hitboxes. Start there. I guarantee at least in lower elos that a good chunk of lane deaths vs Yorick is because of the fact that it's very hard to target the ghouls.
: Unfortunately I think the issue is that Aatrox is the strongest out of all of them. He's said to have been powerful even among the Ascended in his hay-day, and learned how to corrupt mortal hosts almost immediately, as opposed to Rhaast and Varus, who struggle with their first time attempting it. In essence: Aatrox is just stronger than the others, thus he's harder to resist, much-less kill.
Just make Jax the vessel. He'll fuck Aatrox up.
: What would happen if Kayn picked up Aatrox?
If Aatrox wants to die so bad, why doesn't he get wielded by someone who is strong enough to defeat him once and for all and kill him? (Like Shadow Assassin Kayn annihilates Rhaast for good)
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Luminier

Level 227 (NA)
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