: > [{quoted}](name=Lux HD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hvn0GEnc,comment-id=000100000002000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-10T14:51:34.883+0000) > > I'm not "mad" about anything. > > How to internet: When people don't bow down to your failed logic.. flame them. Your logic is stupid as fuck. Thats the honest truth. You're mad because a 3.7k counters a 2.3k item Ok lol adcs are shit as is.
If you really need to convince yourself that I'm mad, go for it.
: and that's a meta problem, not an item problem.
You realize balance revolves around meta, right?
: > [{quoted}](name=Lux HD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hvn0GEnc,comment-id=0001000000020000,timestamp=2016-12-10T07:26:47.884+0000) > > You make it sound like the ADC wouldn't get this item anyway. No. They don't. The most you'll buy is a QSS on the merc scimitar tree in the first 25 minutes of the game. You're getting mad because a 3.7k item counters a 2.3k one. And let me be frank it doesn't ''counter it'' it negates it but you still do no damage without armor pen. Get your head out you ass I understand you hate adcs I can tell by your comments towards them but atleast take both sides of the story. Ive been playing top lane so much recently and thornmail literally is a fuck you to adcs for the first 30 minutes of the game. After that you sell it.
I'm not "mad" about anything. How to internet: When people don't bow down to your failed logic.. flame them.
: Holy hell. Am I missing something? Marksman are supposed to be the counters to tanks. It's literally their entire job description. They are the sustained damage source that widdles down the massive health pool you can't burst. No marksman should think twice about auto attacking a tank because they bought a thornmail. It's just there to help negate some of the lifesteal. It's not supposed to force enemy ADs kill themselves auto attacking you. The items biggest weakness is honestly it's lack of health. Almost every other armor item gives you way more slot efficiency.
Yes, you're missing quite a bit. It's a useless item as it is. it does nothing. The tickle that it provides against the enemy ADC is not worth the slot it takes to build. Nobody is saying that tanks should be able to duel ADCs late game. Stop missing the point, please. The item is just garbage. There is no reason to ever build it unless you are Rammus. It provides nothing. At all. Ever.
: It's effective if it can do decent damage to an ADC with no lifesteal, as that means it forces lifesteal to be built. If it doesn't, then the problem isn't lifesteal countering, it's a problem with the item in general, even without life steal.
That would be fine if lifesteal wasn't meta, which it is.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lux HD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hvn0GEnc,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-12-09T13:54:24.018+0000) > > Did you miss the 1 lifesteal item part? Thornmail is 2.3k That ''1 lifesteal'' item cost 3.7k and lowers the damage output of the person building it because they cant finish crit chance.
You make it sound like the ADC wouldn't get this item anyway.
: How about no? I dont want tanks being dominant this is what assassins and mages are for to oneshot the adc with their burst
This literally has nothing to do with assassins and mages one shotting ADCs.
: can we stop saying thornmail is countered by lifesteal when in fact lifesteal is countered by thornmail? Tanks shouldn't be allowed to 2v1 an ADC + Soraka, that's not fair at all when tanks can already 1v2 mages, supports and assassins Even more important: Thornmail and sunfire cape exist to lessen sustain and have damage that adds up. Stop acting as if thornmail is a damage item that's meant to make ADCs literally kill themselves.
I 100% agree that this is the way it should be, however, it is not how it is in reality. Thornmail, in its current state, does not counter lifesteal. It is entirely ineffective in the role it is meant to serve. I'm not suggesting that my idea for a fix is the one-all solution, but Thornmail needs *something* in order to become a viable itemization. It's just a useless item right now.
: The funniest part is that judging from your name, you are a lux main. And guess what lux uses to proc her passive? YOU GUESSED IT, AUTOS! HERE'S A COOKIE JIMMY! {{item:2052}}
You know what else is funny? The fact that Lux, along with 95% of mages, give 0 fucks about grievous wounds. Nice try.
Azteryz (NA)
: just build {{item:3075}} and {{item:3165}} if you want your grevious wound reflect :D - rito
Oddly enough, these are both part of my core itemization on Janna... *in ARAM*. :(
: Making it reflect a portion of ANY physical damage would make it much more useful against a number of enemies.
This is also a valid suggestion.
: I don't know about you but AP champs have to auto when abilities are on CD or are you playing another version of LoL?
So don't auto the thornmail tank? Or auto him and give 0 shits because you don't have spell vamp anyway?
Antenora (EUW)
: It's not meant to completely negate lifesteal. It's fine as it is.
Really? When was the last time you ever saw someone buy Thornmail in a serious game?
GigaPube (OCE)
: grievous wounds on reflect damage. if you ever criticize a balance decision by riot, come back and reread what you've written. im sure it'll be a humbling experience that you can have a good laugh at. i like the part where its phrased as a demand, not a suggestion. you can laugh at that too, and hopefully realize that those mannerisms outside of this insignificant forum of social interaction will not get you far..."up the ladder", if there was a ladder to climb, wherever you end up
Guys, I found one of those flamers that rages at bot lane everytime he dies in mid. Look, quick.
: That's broken, it's also not quite as bad as you think. Paired with other armor items, it makes marksmen very afraid of attack you. However, it's biggest weakness is that it cannot block on hit effects, which many marksmen have (botrk, for example). Riot should change the item so that it also reduces physical damage from on hit effects, as well, and also reflects damage from these effects. That might even push it to OP levels of efficient.
It makes *no* marksman afraid to attack you, ever. Any amount of lifesteal counteracts the entire passive of thornmail, making it no more than one big chuck of armor item. There is no reason to ever buy Thornmail in games, unless you are Rammus, or unless the enemy ADC has decided against all lifesteal items for some reason.
: A tank with a thornmail is not supposed to 1v1 and beat a well farmed ADC.
I'd challenge you to point out any place I said a tank should be able to 1v1 an ADC.
Bultz (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lux HD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3bQj0d7U,comment-id=000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-12-09T15:56:41.447+0000) > > Every single Yasuo player thinks he is fun and hard to play. That is becaue we know how easily he is shut down and taken out. Idare you play him in ranked all season and see how far you get. > The reality is that he is cancer to play against and easy to rape with. No. He isn't even close. You being bad at the game isn't an excuse to blame him. > Just because you want to build up your ego by convincing yourself that he is difficult to play doesn't make it true. Right and you getting scrapped by him and not investing time to learn to counter or outplay him, but rather coming here and crying about him isn't about your ego.
You're the one crying, actually. Your entire thread is one big Yasuo-main-circlejerk cryfest. Play champs that actually take skill, or bounce from broken champ to broken champ as they come and go, but don't cry when one obnoxiously broken champ gets the nerf he needs.
: While I think thirty seconds is ridiculous as an ult cooldown, I feel like it should be significantly lower than most other ults, due to its reliance on outside factors. Just because there are a ton of knockups/displacements in the game, doesn't mean that Yasuo should ult off of every one that's landed. Yasuo's ult is relatively difficult to use, in the sense of when to ult, not the mechanics involved. blinking into the middle of the enemy team, even with a passive refresh is inherently dangerous, and since off-tank bruiser yasuo is no longer meta, it's even more dangerous to blink into the enemy team. I feel like a reasonable change would be to make his ult cd 80/60/40 (from 80/55/30) to start, and see where that leaves him. Another change that may work well is increasing Last Breath's cd, and having the ult's remaining cooldown be reduce-able by doing something with him (ie, landing a Q on an enemy champion reduces the cooldown by 1s) or something weird and conditional like that.
{{champion:99}} 27 seconds ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lux HD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hvn0GEnc,comment-id=00140000,timestamp=2016-12-09T19:13:13.930+0000) > > That's sort of the whole point of the thread. Tanks don't itemize into grievous. If they do, they are wasting a slot on LW or Morello. Thornmail should be the tanks answer to the need for grievous. I don't think Thornmail should provide Grievous. It could cripple champions which are not ADCs but rely on sustain. Champions like Vladimir, Swain, or Mundo. It is bullshit because most of those champions are AP yet they would be countered by a pure armor item. Sorta like Anivia and Karthus are currently "countered" by Randuin's Omen. If you really want Thornmail to be a counter to lifesteal, a better solution would be "Reduce the lifesteal from enemies attacking this champion by X%" This way, ADCs are countered, but not casters that rely on sustain (especially those that are AP)
That wouldn't affect AP champs unless they were auto-ing the Thornmail champ. It would only apply GW when it deals damage form the reflect.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lux HD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hvn0GEnc,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-09T13:48:53.874+0000) > > So, yeah.. that Thornmail item that has existed forever.. kind of sucks balls. > > Why? It is completely countered by 1 lifesteal item. Please add a passive to Thornmail applies Grievous Wounds when it applies reflect damage. > > Thanks. It only sucks if you're asking it to do something it isn't supposed to. Even with LifeSteal, you're diminishing their healing. Get grevious, get a Sunfire, and you're passively doing damage that you can't without those items.
> [{quoted}](name=RookPusher,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hvn0GEnc,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2016-12-09T19:09:23.033+0000) > > Get grevious That's sort of the whole point of the thread. Tanks don't itemize into grievous. If they do, they are wasting a slot on LW or Morello. Thornmail should be the tanks answer to the need for grievous.
: But then they'd have to increase the cost, and it's already a hard buy. The combine cost is like 1250 isn't it? Totally absurd.
I don't think they would need to change the price. Morello is 2900 and it applies grievous, plus 20% CDR and a fuck ton of AP + lost chapter is like stupid strong in lane.
MLDzXnRRR (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lux HD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hvn0GEnc,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-12-09T13:54:24.018+0000) > > Did you miss the 1 lifesteal item part? Lifesteal won't save someone like Tristana. You need lifesteal and MR to negate the damage. Champions with on-hit magic, true dmg or armor shred/ignore can deal with tanks with thornmail, but AD Trynda and AD Trist are completely fked. I miss the old Fiora - it was so fun to rush thornmail vs her and see how she dies during her ult :D
{{item:3139}} Which most ADCs will buy anyway, if there is any true lockdown on the enemy team.
: You can't buff thornmail. You just can't. Reflect damage is a very toxic and cancerous mechanic in any game, let alone this game. I'm sure you never fought a fed rammus in the late game as a melee or ranged AD carry, but it is stupid. The fact that you kill yourself by attacking is not cool. If you ask me I think thornmail should be reworked into a pure defensive powerhouse against physical damage. Something like removing the reflect entirely, adding 50 armor, and a new passive that reduces all physical damage taken by 10%-15%
First of all, Rammus is not a proper indicator of the strength of Thornmail. He is a very unique case because he can: 1. Force you to auto him. 2. Damage you every attack with his W (or whatever spell it is). Thornmail on him amplifies his damage because as it is, you HAVE to attack him for him to deal any meaningful damage. Name one other champion besides Rammus that treads the fine line of "Lol Thornmail is garbage right now but soooo close to being game breaking". Malphite? Poppy? Taric? Any champion that scales on armor will love it, but not for the reflect. It is the most efficient gold item for pure armor. Any ADC can completely nullify Thornmail *at any stage of the game* with {{item:3139}} . MR? Check. Lifesteal? Check. Congrats, you have just completely turned the anti-carry into a health pot. The ONLY way Thornmail could ever be useful (outside of Rammus) is if it applied Grievous Wounds.
iLLp (NA)
: theres just something about doing 20k more damage than everyone in the game with ezreal
: This is why I never take low Elo players seriously. How stupid you must be to ACTUALLY think riven is easy to play. If she was so easy your ass would be anywhere near plat but I highly doubt that's possible. Yasuo is a fun as fuck champion. He is incredibly hard to play and hard to pull off the shit necessary to win lane in top now. Yasuo can get outplayed and cced so Fucking easily . I don't even want to play him in d2 anymore because a fucking monkey could pick Elise or nunu and dive me for free every 2 minutes. Yasuo is so squishy when he goes full damage and still dies when he's full tank. A full tank malphite does nearly the same damage if not more while being unkillable. Qq where? Oh wait u would rather get killed by a point and click full tank champ than a good player on yasuo. Keep in mind I took the time to type this out after that cancer you typed above.
Every single Yasuo player thinks he is fun and hard to play. The reality is that he is cancer to play against and easy to rape with. Just because you want to build up your ego by convincing yourself that he is difficult to play doesn't make it true.
Dauthau (NA)
: Garen is a TANK, he doesn't do that much damage. You're obviously drunk or something!
RexSaur (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lux HD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AETPUH1u,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-09T14:38:29.837+0000) > > None of those junglers are strong right now because of their kits, they are entirely a result of CotC and level 3 ganks, both of which are getting tuned down. > > Meanwhile, Yasuo mains can't stop crying because their faceroll freelo is going to get a little harder. I hope you're kidding. Jungle itself as a role is overpowered, and so are those champs (shyvana just got overbuffed into oblivion), its a combination of BOTH. And besides i dont even play yasuo.
Kidding about what? Whenever the jungle is strong, those champs emerge as front runners. This is nothing new. Jungle is strong because junglers can gank earlier, ahead of the laners. That isn't going to be the case much longer. Once CotC gets gutted, Hecarim and Zac are going to fall off again.
: How have so many people gotten to high Plat/low Diamond never playing support?
They have supported, probably a lot. They just have fragile af egos and need to carry to exert dominance over their team.
RexSaur (NA)
: This silver board still complaining about yasuo
None of those junglers are strong right now because of their kits, they are entirely a result of CotC and level 3 ganks, both of which are getting tuned down. Meanwhile, Yasuo mains can't stop crying because their faceroll freelo is going to get a little harder.
Spotty (NA)
: I got dunk master darius in a chest the other day
But how many bitches have you dunked so far? Dunk me, daddy! {{champion:99}}
Bultz (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Lux HD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3bQj0d7U,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-12-09T14:13:19.811+0000) > > Don't worry, you'll find the next broken champ and freelo on them, too. Yasuo isn't a freelo champion hell no one above gold uses him? iI have 1mill near exp with yasuo because I like playing him.
: Can Storm Raider surge give better visual and sound feedback when activated?
Should be a lightning bolt striking you or something.
dominusx (EUNE)
: dont bother posting in boards. people here are the same ones who say Poppy Jayce and kennen syndra too is fine and dont require nerfs. you can tell how stupid they are.
Don't worry, you'll find the next broken champ and freelo on them, too.
Bultz (NA)
: @Meddler I hope you're joking about nerfing Yasuo, again.
Wah I can't faceroll with Yasuo anymore. Waaaah.
: People are like: Yeah let's whine, instead of learning safe picks for the roles that I can't play. Like come on, if you get autofilled, just get a pick on which you wont feed. You don't have to carry every game.
Some people prioritize carrying over winning. It infuriates them to think they could go a whole game without their team *knowing* they are a god. Fragile egos.
Penns (EUW)
: https://embed.gyazo.com/592489ee47272b1a374946e5d745212c.gif "Sucks balls" hehe
Did you miss the 1 lifesteal item part?
Nathaniell1 (EUNE)
: Riven Q - following movement, not mouse position
It's always been like that.. even stated in the skill description. I agree about the animation canceling. Playing Riven well is essentially one giant exploit, which is probably why Riven mains are all cancer.
Rioter Comments
: You're right, it would be fun. But it would turn her notoriously broken. She has so much in her arsenal. I feel like with the new skin more people are playing her and finding her not as good as they thought even though she's already in such a good spot.
ZaDahaka11 (EUNE)
: late game Vayne can 1v1 any champion in the game, prove me wrong!
: It would make sense if Lux could blink to pick up her staff when its at max distance from her when she throws her W. New - W - Lux can now press W again when the projectile reaches max distance in order to blink to it. It would be a pretty fun mechanic for lux, to decide between the shield or the blink-away
> [{quoted}](name=Whitney Houston,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=KzUXkJBk,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-12-09T13:27:47.740+0000) > > It would make sense if Lux could blink to pick up her staff when its at max distance from her when she throws her W. > > New - W - Lux can now press W again when the projectile reaches max distance in order to blink to it. > > It would be a pretty fun mechanic for lux, to decide between the shield or the blink-away Are you trying to break her?
: Lux Vs New Assassin update
Lux is the most balanced champ in the game. Don't touch her, Riot. I will shoot.
yoritz (NA)
: With the classification they give me I will not play again
: > [{quoted}](name=Lux HD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n86A0E6K,comment-id=0005000000000001,timestamp=2016-12-08T19:14:45.833+0000) > > Illaoi auto attacks all the time in combat. Her W procs on-hit effects like Grasp, and souls count as enemy champions which means Grasp procs on them. > > Grasp is the best keystone for Illaoi 9 out of 10 times. I'm level 4 Illaoi and I never take it. It's garbage. Better to go 18/0/12 and get some life steal and fervor than to take garbage grasp lol
: > [{quoted}](name=Tychusfindlay919,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n86A0E6K,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2016-12-08T19:08:00.754+0000) > > Uhhh, what? Like you need to hit an enemy with the auto for grasp to trigger and Illaoi isn't going to be using autos that much in combat. It feels bad to have to get within melee range and whack them for you to get the HP/DMG
Illaoi auto attacks all the time in combat. Her W procs on-hit effects like Grasp, and souls count as enemy champions which means Grasp procs on them. Grasp is the best keystone for Illaoi 9 out of 10 times.
: Just as CoC should be the quintessential tank keystone, Grasp should be so for juggernauts
: Isn't Sejuani a fairly viable support bot lane?
What does she offer to a duo lane that Leona doesn't do better?
: Meanwhile Pantheon invalidating non-tank melees yes he falls off but holy fuck he's probably 10x more oppressive than any other champ could ever hope to be in lane
> [{quoted}](name=Face The Lewd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RbE1POXt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-12-08T18:19:03.836+0000) > > Meanwhile Pantheon invalidating non-tank melees > yes he falls off but holy fuck he's probably 10x more oppressive than any other champ could ever hope to be in lane {{champion:420}}
: There is a Vast difference between a lane bully, and an Oppressive laner
I don't think Caitlyn falls into the Oppressive category. Her lane presence is dictated by her support anyway.
: Not all champs need a rework, some champs just need a visual update....
{{champion:45}} needs a VU more than any other champ.
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Lux HD

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