ItsLowbo (NA)
: Changes to Sightstone/Support Items coming to PBE
Supports player feeling about this changes: Support players who builds this path {{item:2045}} {{item:3069}} {{item:3401}} {{item:3092}} are probably angry right now because they cannot build this anymore. Also, item cool down reduction is gone. Support players who build this path {{item:2301}} {{item:2302}} {{item:2303}} are probably happy and little sad because one they save 800g in the early game, but they lose that passive you get through quest. I feel like they can solve this problem by making a second quest on top of the second tier update quest. Or have a third tier update item. For the early game vision, I cannot say for sure. The requirement is 500g and a update to 2nd tier item to get the level of blue sight stone vision. In my opinion you would get it even faster then it is on live.
: If you are quoting Meddler, please make sure that you quote the **whole** statement. Here is the rest: >We feel pretty good about that nerf long term. A complicating factor though is that Enchanters aren't generally looking out of line at present. We're confident it's a good change overall, but not necessarily in the short term however. We're still discussing whether it's something we should ship now, and then adjust around it in following patches. Or whether we should hold it until we have other changes to go with it. Or until enchanter strength is high. Or at the least we until won't have as large a gap between patches as the upcoming holiday period, so if follow up is needed it's not as delayed. Like I said, he mentions that this is a bad short term change for enchanters and it is difficult since **Enchanters aren't generally looking out of line at present**. And they are thinking if they should ship it now or later, when they are able to follow up more closely or if they even wait to ship that change until they have other changes to counterweight the enchanter nerf, maybe even wait until enchanters are strong in general so the nerf is warranted. What he means and you misinterpreted as "enchanters are too strong", is that too much power from enchanters comes from **items**. That's what they want to change. Making enchanters less dependant on these items and putting that power back into their kits.
I hope you are right. I do feel enchantress are very item dependent. In other words the spells on enchantress support are useless and the items on supports is what give them importance over support. Enchantress are support items instead of individual champion. The problem is are they actually going to do anything. They usually nerfs these champions and never touch them in months and usually if they do its either for more nerfs.
: > [{quoted}](name=Lwnt,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=X9dlm49v,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-10-25T16:20:03.066+0000) > > The itemization for enchantress support sucks so bad. That was the only one good item enchantress support could buy. Which is reason for _other_ items to get buffs to stack alongside Ardent, not make it such a stand alone item. Think of it like combining Essence Reaver with other crit items for that sweet 30% CDR.
> [{quoted}](name=One Best Gay,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=X9dlm49v,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-10-25T17:40:14.079+0000) > > Which is reason for _other_ items to get buffs to stack alongside Ardent, not make it such a stand alone item. Think of it like combining Essence Reaver with other crit items for that sweet 30% CDR. Tell that to riot because they would never do such a thing like that. They did something like if you build this {{item:3174}} and this {{item:3222}} you would lose the passive % mana regen equal to %hp regen.
: They're actually both op. The BF items are too cheap now and the zeal items give too much power. Supports have been super good since shielding and healing power were added to a bunch of items. Granted dive initiation supports like blitz and thresh are still decent picks because they can kill the squishy enchanters but if you didn't snowball hard you just lost to the hypercarry+enchanter combos. Hopefully preseason shakes things up a bit but if killer tempo stays as strong as it was when it was introduced I doubt the ad carry pool will change much. A tad too hard to keep up with the constant pbe changes to runes.
> [{quoted}](name=Cronofuge,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=X9dlm49v,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-10-25T15:12:35.331+0000) > > They're actually both op. The BF items are too cheap now and the zeal items give too much power. Supports have been super good since shielding and healing power were added to a bunch of items. Granted dive initiation supports like blitz and thresh are still decent picks because they can kill the squishy enchanters but if you didn't snowball hard you just lost to the hypercarry+enchanter combos. > > Hopefully preseason shakes things up a bit but if killer tempo stays as strong as it was when it was introduced I doubt the ad carry pool will change much. A tad too hard to keep up with the constant pbe changes to runes. The healing and shielding power percentage is only useful if we have some AP to help with the scaling. Lately they have been nerfing the base value of heal and shield. With the changes happening to runes they put the percentage healing and shielding under the resolve tree making enchantress support to only get either summon aerie or cosmic insight (5% max cooldown), but u cannot get all three.
: Effectiveness is one thing. Shifting the meta of the entire game is another. I'm a support main, and have been building Ardent Censer since it was added to the game. At the time, it was considered a troll item, and it's been over buffed time and time again. The pick rate and popularity of supports _other_ than enchanters had dropped immensely, even pushing Thresh, Alistar, Leona, and Blitzcrank into the back of the support roster. Even worse, champions that use Ardent well started pushing out other champions in other rolls, simply because of synergy. Jhin, Caitlyn, Quinn, Lyssandra, Aurelion Sol, Illaoi, Heimerdinger, and others, were moved nearly out of sight because other champions could apply Ardent better, and the damage made early game champions too strong. It ensured that late game scaling champions simply couldn't make it to that time stamp, because games would end too early. It might seem like a huge Nerf, but it should be more of a niche item than it is currently; blocking out any other option for a first item.
> [{quoted}](name=One Best Gay,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=X9dlm49v,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-10-25T14:07:35.673+0000) > > Effectiveness is one thing. Shifting the meta of the entire game is another. > > I'm a support main, and have been building Ardent Censer since it was added to the game. At the time, it was considered a troll item, and it's been over buffed time and time again. The pick rate and popularity of supports _other_ than enchanters had dropped immensely, even pushing Thresh, Alistar, Leona, and Blitzcrank into the back of the support roster. Even worse, champions that use Ardent well started pushing out other champions in other rolls, simply because of synergy. > > Jhin, Caitlyn, Quinn, Lyssandra, Aurelion Sol, Illaoi, Heimerdinger, and others, were moved nearly out of sight because other champions could apply Ardent better, and the damage made early game champions too strong. It ensured that late game scaling champions simply couldn't make it to that time stamp, because games would end too early. > > It might seem like a huge Nerf, but it should be more of a niche item than it is currently; blocking out any other option for a first item. The itemization for enchantress support sucks so bad. That was the only one good item enchantress support could buy.
Weedbro (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=One Best Gay,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=X9dlm49v,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-10-25T14:29:56.913+0000) > > Supports as a class need a full overhaul like the class instead we used to get. They're are too many similarities between certain kinda of supports (Leona/Nautilus) (Janna/Lulu) (Thresh/Morgana). > > They need split apart, given a new Sightstone that actually gives something other than health and wards, and given an item overhaul that gives them unique tools that only they would want to opt into. They themselves need to be useful, not just the helping hand in a fight. Now this i can get behind 100%!
> [{quoted}](name=Weedbro,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=X9dlm49v,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-25T14:52:12.480+0000) > > Now this i can get behind 100%! Me too. The support class update is something we needed the most then all of a sudden riot goes we are done with class update. WTF!
: Spellthief's Edge discourages AoE poke on multiple champs simultaneously
So this was intentional? I thought it was a bug. My lulu q would only proc once when I hit q on both target. This change is stupid. Why would they do this?
Rioter Comments
: That's been my feeling too. It takes too long to get that first item let alone second item. There is no tank support item that costs 2100. the cheapest is 2200 and only two cost that with one requiring bonus health and the other a niche item that you would never purchase first. Yet enchanter support type champions have {{item:3107}} {{item:3174}} {{item:3222}} that all cost 2100.
You do realize tanks has a wide range of items to pick while Enchantress support has only 4 right??? {{item:3504}} {{item:3174}} {{item:3222}} {{item:3107}} Not only that two of the items counter each other, in which Mikel loses its passive and the heal on athenes is pretty much not useful as the heal from the ardent sensor is a better version of it.
: > [{quoted}](name=WAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YERXjYZk,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-05-04T16:55:00.907+0000) > > She's a Support And? Not all supports have utility tied in every skill. Let alone having a skill that has a double function among everything else.
She is a subclass called Enchantress support. They are meant to have high utility but with low defense and damage. Also if you look at soraka, Nami, Sona, Janna, Rakan and Bard they have all have utility in every skill.
: Because Lulu was never shit to begin with? I have been maining Lulu since season 3 and can see that quite clearly, with the exception of the Lulu mid/top meta where her supporting was simply a worse version of her solo lane counterparts. She can do Janna levels of damage and can still be viable, if it's her shields, buffs, and saves that we want to keep.
You are saying the shield is what we want but yet you are supporting their idea which is nerfing the shield strength. You do not make any sense. You know this nerf hurts support lulu more then solo lulu.
: I do think her shield deserves some kind of nerf considering on how much you can do with it, but the e enemy casts damage is the main problem here. Though I don't have too high of expectations of Riot anyways since we all know they don't tackle the main problem, but instead tries too hard by going around, and then screws other stuff up.
Wow, there something I agree with you with. That is Riot logic when it comes to nerfing lulu. People in forum complain about Z than riot goes on to nerf X. Then a week later another nerf but on Y. People still complaining about the Z and Riot goes on and nerf Z. Then they go she is now balance. Then you have Lulu mains going WTF??? I saw this twice happened to lulu. I can see this being the third one.
: lulu needs to be nerfed more tbh
You are a really annoying person. I have been playing this game for a while and everytime lulu gets nerf you always in the forum to cheer them on and then say she needs to be nerfed way more. With your logic for you to be happy her only two damaging abilities needs to be 0 and have 1 HP as her health bar. You probably then considered that balance.
: They are working on the stat for mitigated on allies, but stated there was a coding problem they need to work out, so they shipped what they had so far.
Rioter Comments
Fryce (NA)
: What about all 2 of us support mains they tried to throw into adc ;-;
That is what happened to me!!!! I was in queue and I picked Bard only to see another person picked Janna with exhaust. I was like why did you pick that because I was the support. Then I look closely she had support and I had bottom. I was like how in the world did that happened. Now I know why.
LankPants (OCE)
: >Probably more something like Bard chimes - an alternate way to demonstrate skill leading to power that isn't necessarily funneled through the item system. Not necessarily something that external to the champion or that impactful, but that sort of alternate thing to do you can be good or bad at. That sounds incredibly gimmicky and like it would just be a snowball mechanic in disguise TBH. If we are going to assume something like Bard chimes then what would happen is (assuming they're impactful at least) whichever support is stronger at that point can move from lane safely to pick them up. If you're getting ahead you'd be able to snowball that even harder, so you'd just see more Zyra, more Malzahar and generally more early game mage supports. That's always what's going to happen if you add anything to the map that actually has an impact, when Dragon was garbage you could afford weaker early junglers (hi season 5 tank meta) because you could afford to give them up. Now with the potential for incredibly powerful Drakes in Infernal and Mountain spawning picking an early game jungler is just too risky. You have a 50% chance of being forced to cede a strong Drake just off of your pick. This is what you always need to think about when you put something on the map, anything that's contestable early game will inherently favour those with strong early games. As the support position stands now favouring those with strong early games is a bad idea, because those with strong early games are the current meta cancer supports. What you need to do is open the support role for true supports and tanks. You might not want to hear this but the problem is that champions like Zyra, Malz, Brand ect. have been allowed to usurp the support role. You just need to start fixing these champions so that they're better in their intended role (almost always mid) and worse in support so people will actually have a reason to pick things like Sona and Janna.
Your missing the point of the changes. They have said that their is no problems with the support champions but the problem is that the support role itself is boring to play. Due to that their long queue time in the game. I think these changes is to give support classes an alternate route to gain power during gameplay. Either through improving champion abilities, xp or gold. Of course, hopefully, they are going to balance it properly. So overall I feel these changes is to make the support role more enjoyable to play.
  Rioter Comments
: Mikeals and Ardent bonus healings stack and that Redemption just says "Unique Passive: +10% Heal and shield power" Meaning multiple Redemptions wont give more heals but since it doesnt have a name it will stack up with mikeals and Ardent as well. So grab all 3 on Rakka and go be a God.
NO she wont do that math. Stacking the percent shield and heal bonus would be less beneficial because you need the AP stat to amplify it. It is more beneficial to pick up one or two of those item and get a high AP item. Then you will see your shield and heal will have more of an impact.
: Honestly, it's fine. If you go for tank support items, you're only "somewhat" as tanky as an actual tank, right? So if you go for ap support items, you should only have "somewhat" as much ap as a mage. This is *honestly* what I initially thought was the point: You'd be an off-role of either a tank or mage, more geared towards the utility side of things. Instead, everything's being forced to use tank stats, and if they don't use them, they use this heal/shield passive. If we were going to do that, why not tie the heal/shield, as well as knock up duration, slow duration/strength, stun duration, movement speed buff potency/duration, and so on to a new stat altogether? The whole thing's frustrating and not many people look past "AP = Damage" aspect. Hell, you could make some ap items that give a little ap and some of that new stat, for supports like Karma that'd like to buff their shield strength and root duration while pumping damage into their Q. Why not do something like *that* instead of force everyone into tank stats even when we're clearly using mages?
I agree with you 100 percent. Sadly riot cannot tell the distinction between utility mages and tank supports. With every new support item is making utility mages more of a tanky mage. All this does is make their skills have less of an impact while making them dependent on items active and passive. So many players and also riot forget that enchantress supports scales wit AP when it comes to utility wise.
Elikain (EUNE)
: I don't think they should switch to AP instead of HP. HP is a universal stat and a mage wouldn't really be buying this item for HP, some small CDR and an effect. As it stands, Redemption doesn't have a real value to them, compared to their builds. If they switch this for AP, then it might become enticing enough Mages and i don't really think we need another FQC problem.
Yes, Hp is a universal stat but your forgetting that HP would benefit some champions more then other specifically tanks. Tanks have high base hp, armor and magic resist. So adding more HP will benefit them more. Enchantress supports (janna, lulu, soraka,, nami, sona and etc) already have low HP and resistance and adding HP would help them to be tanky a little bit. When I think of Enhantress supports I think of low damage, low resistance and really high utility (cc and buff). By giving Ap you allow them to scale their utility (slows, shield, heals, speed boost) which gives their skills more of an impact in game. On top of that if this item had AP it will synergize well with the 10% heal and shield stat giving shield and heal more of an impact in game. Lastly, you might think this makes utility mages squishy well yea it does but that what makes it fun. To play enchantress support is all about positioning which is knowing where to stand (using allies to shield you) and controlling the flow of the battle (CC and buffs) and if you screw this up your dead. I dont think some mages would buy this item as it has the 10 % heal and shield stat which prevented a lot of mage from buying athenes unholy grail.
: {{champion:25}} have a 3 second snare, so that will guarantee a hit. Maybe she will become viable midlaner due to this item Some other champs that have synergy with this item {{champion:43}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:98}} I only pick the one that have a heal or shield so they can utilize both part of the item. [Edit] I just rethink about it, Galio might be the best abuser of this item {{champion:3}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:3}}
I feel like ur thinking this item is very powerful when in reality its not. If its like all support items that riot made it has the hype in the beginning but it will just flop the moment ppl start using it.
: Give us a new mastery that converts any CDR you get over the 40%(or 45%) cap into some amount of AP or something.
That is going to be hard to balance with the ap. Or scale utility with cooldown reduction instead of ap which is going to never happen.
Morcleon (NA)
: You can't avoid it if you're CCed for long enough. Say, by a Bard ult. :3
Well lucky bard then. But everyone else its going to be hard to hit. Plus its only 10 percent of maximum health so a bard shouldnt waste his ult unless he know he can get a kill.
: The beam better be the size of a pebble, there's no way something like this could be balanced otherwise.
It has a 2.5 second channeling time. You can avoid it.
: **2100 GOLD** **CAN BE USED WHILE DEAD** OH MOTHER FUCK.
Its has a 2 min cooldown and 2.5 second channeling. You miss when your alive most likely u wont be able to use it when you are dead.
Lucifer (NA)
: The thing is, locket is still a must buy on a lot of these supports because of how strong the shield active still is, even with the MR aura gone. It's just going to amount to even less AP overall in final builds, as so few cost efficient AP items are left to purchase compared to the tank alternatives. These can leave supports feeling more like item bots than actual champions - especially supports dependent on actually scaling with the AP they're supposed to be buying. I'd argue supports are already way too dependent on active items compared to every other class of champs.
Honestly, I agree with you with the ap scaling. The whole AP scaling thing was screwed up by riot and they dont even care to even look at it. After season 3 changes they make our utility scale with AP when they give us little AP in support items. On top of that Ap was the worst stat to scale our utility because its too expensive to get on a support income. Doesnt make any sense. They havent said one thing about it after season 3 changes about the ap scaling. Now it looks like the route they took is more active (or passive) support items that helps allies, which has percent boost to heal and shield and 10 percent cooldowns. Pretty lame in my opinion.
: Holy crap. 10% Max HP True damage? That is OP as hell.
Its not that op look at the freaken channeling time (2.5 seconds). How can someone get hit by it. Anybody can easily avoid it. On top of that the two min cooldown.
: It's probably going to be like Zz'rot or Frost Queen's. 3 people on the team will have it just to spam during team fights. If Redemption only healed then it might work as a support only item, but one thing I can say is it's too good for a 2100 gold item.
Dont get ur hopes up its going to be one of those items that have hype in the beginning but then when ppl starts playing it they are going to find out its useless. Then riots going to take months to finally look at it and see that they need to buff it. Then after it will probably be useful. Happens to all support items.
Lucifer (NA)
: I wouldn't mind if they removed health from it entirely and made it just AP and CDR, or AP and a smaller amount of health. They could potentially remove the 10% CDR from the item, as supports already get an overdose of CDR in their builds (it's very easy to reach 45% atm).
Yea i am sick of the 10 percent cooldown in every damn support items. I really want to know which riot member thinks having 10 percent cooldown in every support items is a good idea. Do they forget there is a FREAKEN LIMIT on cooldown. But i think they cant put full ap item as they are trying to replace locket.
Lucifer (NA)
: Concerned about Support Items
The redemption should have ap and less health . Its the old sight stone all over again. We need Ap to scale our utility to be more effective.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Kaioko (NA)
: Coding is easier to miss a number considering it's all numbers in there. I like how you're blaming them even though you're a Lulu main and never reported it yourself or noticed it for that matter.
> [{quoted}](name=Kaioko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mWisGL9N,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-09-08T00:07:52.310+0000) > > Coding is easier to miss a number considering it's all numbers in there. I like how you're blaming them even though you're a Lulu main and never reported it yourself or noticed it for that matter. I did had a feeling that their was no difference but I was too busy protecting my adc that I didnt go further into it. Even if I said anything they wont listen to me unless I am a pro player.
Rioter Comments
: I like it. I wish that if you completed a gold income item it gave you a ward slot for pinks
> [{quoted}](name=ApocaIypse Meow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PsGxIqQB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-08-29T15:55:19.755+0000) > > I like it. I wish that if you completed a gold income item it gave you a ward slot for pinks That sounds confusing how do you add a ward slot for pink?
Sylvant (EUNE)
: it definitely feels shit to be few levels behind, when when you are on he leading side, but at other hand additional exp will require extra balance on the current items and or support champs to not lead them becoming too powerful
> [{quoted}](name=Sylvant,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PsGxIqQB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-08-29T19:30:13.514+0000) > > it definitely feels shit to be few levels behind, when when you are on he leading side, but at other hand additional exp will require extra balance on the current items and or support champs to not lead them becoming too powerful Well in the description its says you cannot gain exp if your the same level or higher. Also its every 10 seconds instead of every second so that seems kind of balance.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Then in this case, I don't buff my ADC afterwards. I instead just don't do anything because he doesn't do anything. Eventually he will have to learn that he has to do something, and that's where he will get the buffs again. This isn't anything new, but I can see you are learning, OP.
> [{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nR26gRGl,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-08-21T22:07:32.581+0000) > > Then in this case, I don't buff my ADC afterwards. I instead just don't do anything because he doesn't do anything. > > Eventually he will have to learn that he has to do something, and that's where he will get the buffs again. > > This isn't anything new, but I can see you are learning, OP. I dont get it how do you just stop buffing your adc. If I say that then the adc will just start throwing a fit and calling me a stupid support.
: Why I no longer play zilean support in Bronze he is still decent mid but the number of ults wasted by our adc flashing out of a fight or our assassin flashing away when I ult them makes me cry.
> [{quoted}](name=chubs1224,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nR26gRGl,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-08-22T00:02:08.527+0000) > > Why I no longer play zilean support in Bronze he is still decent mid but the number of ults wasted by our adc flashing out of a fight or our assassin flashing away when I ult them makes me cry. I get that with lulu. I see my adc chasing the enemy just needing one more attack to kill the other adc. So I whimsy (speed boost) so she can land that attack. Next thing you know she uses that speed boost and run to the nearest minion to kill it.
: As a Leona support, this sometimes happens if my teammates are in silver and I am playing in a normal. I just get left out to dry by my adc and they will say the common silver line of "you got caught out". No, I picked a good fight and tyou failed to follow-up or pay attention. I am actually a pretty cautious support leona too. I will sometimes get criticized for not going in enough, but I try to only go in if I see an opportunity to get a kill for sure. This almost never happens when I play ranked with people around my Elo. People follow-up for better or worse and even if it is a bad fight they will try to save you, recognizing that as {{champion:89}} it is hard to leave once you are in. They don't just walk away and abandon you if you make a "mistake".
> [{quoted}](name=Swiftstrike4,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nR26gRGl,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-08-21T21:25:06.974+0000) > > As a Leona support, this sometimes happens if my teammates are in silver and I am playing in a normal. I just get left out to dry by my adc and they will say the common silver line of "you got caught out". No, I picked a good fight and tyou failed to follow-up or pay attention. I am actually a pretty cautious support leona too. I will sometimes get criticized for not going in enough, but I try to only go in if I see an opportunity to get a kill for sure. > > This almost never happens when I play ranked with people around my Elo. People follow-up for better or worse and even if it is a bad fight they will try to save you, recognizing that as {{champion:89}} it is hard to leave once you are in. They don't just walk away and abandon you if you make a "mistake". My first game of leona i learned the hard way. I thought as the tank I was the initiator to start a fight, but every time I go in no one is following me. So I just kept dying over and over again. I pretty much just let my adc initiate and then go in for the crowd control and tanking. The worst part is when you have an adc that just want to farm so I just sit there in the bush.
  Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Supports with bad team be like
How is the support role in overwatch? I am starting to get really bored of league of legend support role. In overwatch is the support role make the least money ? Is their exp always the lowest? Are they so dependent on their adc? Do they always buy the same items? Is the support role actually makes an impact in the game?
: Finally.
You should feel proud of yourself this is what riot said: In the case of supports however, the grading system is just not great at evaluating game factors correctly atm. We are targeting improvements to support grading with 6.14. To be able to do this when there is a problem with the grading system for the support role you should feel proud of yourself. I am trying to get to lvl 7 mastery of lulu support. I just need one more s grade mastery for lulu support in order to get too lvl 7. Hopefully I will get it.
Rioter Comments
Frappé (NA)
: What was your CS though. That's an important thing too, because there is no easy way to differentiate a Lulu top and a Lulu support. I think if you would have had 20-40 CS you would have gotten an S. Its not hard to sneak CS when your ADC is out of lane/dead.
> [{quoted}](name=Faxxity,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NRrnl3j3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-06-27T19:46:46.697+0000) > > What was your CS though. That's an important thing too, because there is no easy way to differentiate a Lulu top and a Lulu support. I think if you would have had 20-40 CS you would have gotten an S. Its not hard to sneak CS when your ADC is out of lane/dead. 23 cs
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Lwnt

Level 64 (NA)
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