: I really wish they would, I also thinkits dumb that friends cant look on your profile and see them
> [{quoted}](name=Goku7474,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BVVL1Tvv,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-10-27T18:29:52.959+0000) > > I really wish they would, I also thinkits dumb that friends cant look on your profile and see them Well, what you can do is download shotcut. Upload the files into it and convert to mp4. You can then put it wherever you want, and send it to them via facebook or whatever else u want to. Problem is, the video needs to be in a higher quality. Shotcut can only keep things in their original quality. Being able to record things as highlights is still very, very convenient.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Because people were complaining that they were broken.
> [{quoted}](name=OurLestrade,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YR0i43QE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-13T22:08:25.059+0000) > > Because people were complaining that they were broken. Lol, so they decided to discard the entire class altogether? What a mess.
Rioter Comments
: I've been thinking, and would it be better if Riot just removed the chat functionality altogether? From looking around, the most common response when it comes to dealing with toxicity or something is mute all at the start of the game and tbh it seems that the best course of action from a developmental standpoint would be to just remove chat and just add more pings. {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
> [{quoted}](name=The Highest Noon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-03-22T15:35:20.782+0000) > > I've been thinking, and would it be better if Riot just removed the chat functionality altogether? From looking around, the most common response when it comes to dealing with toxicity or something is mute all at the start of the game and tbh it seems that the best course of action from a developmental standpoint would be to just remove chat and just add more pings. > > {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} I personally would prefer a button that automatically mutes the whole game from the beginning of a match. And it is true that they've added in a ton of functionality to the ping system so you don't really need to chat. But, going so far as to remove it completely may be too far. Chat function is a basic function added in to alot of online games lol.
Loozer (NA)
: How do Bans actually work?
Understand that this ban system is alot like filling a bucket. Once you fill the bucket, you receive your punishment. Additionally, once you fill a bucket you work you way towards filling the next bucket, and the next bucket, and so on. Working your way up the punishment tiers is the same as fulling multiple buckets. Some behaviors fill the bucket quickly while others do it slowly. Some behaviors can even fill a bucket instantly. And if you are especially careless, some behaviors can fill several buckets. The punishment tiers are as follows: * First Offense: 10 Game Chat Restriction * Second Offense: 25 Game Chat Restriction * Third Offense: Two Week Suspension * Fourth Offense: Permanent Suspension SO, if you've received a 14-day ban then you've filled 3 buckets already and you are working your way towards filling the 4th and final bucket. [PSA: I JUST GOT A 14-DAY BAN!?!? (Q/A compilation)](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/RzHt0Q2k-psa-i-just-got-a-14-day-ban-qa-compilation)
SS Pappino (EUNE)
: I still love the game just as much (if not more), as i have when I first started in season 1. I skipped season 3 because unknown reasons (really I played close to 0 games then, I myself don't even know why), but I got back in there and im happy with my decision ever since.
> [{quoted}](name=SS Pappino,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Zjg0yVtA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-21T07:17:37.495+0000) > > I still love the game just as much (if not more), as i have when I first started in season 1. I skipped season 3 because unknown reasons (really I played close to 0 games then, I myself don't even know why), but I got back in there and im happy with my decision ever since. I like the game too. I've been playing since mid s2 and i've been really liking it. Every now and then, its kinda meh and things get weird and i'm scared. But overall, i'm still here trying to see where all of this goes and where it will be in the future. I just like the format and everything. The only thing that ruins it for me every now and then is the occasional person with a really bad attitude :/
: Yeah but it's free shit, so that's not really a bad thing.
> [{quoted}](name=RenownedWheat42,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BJTMQXB7,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-22T01:26:02.848+0000) > > Yeah but it's free shit, so that's not really a bad thing. Fair point. Wish I was 10-12 yr old so I could have the time to grind the hell outa normies/ranked though xD lol. Responsibilities are a pain in the ass.
: Work on getting your chests. I had 14 keys stacked up before I finally decided to just try new champs and get chests. Now I've got 5.
> [{quoted}](name=RenownedWheat42,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BJTMQXB7,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-22T01:20:46.072+0000) > > Work on getting your chests. > > I had 14 keys stacked up before I finally decided to just try new champs and get chests. > > Now I've got 5. hmmm.... but that's going to take sooo much time lol.
: Player Toxicity
this needs to be in player behavior, you have this in the wrong board bro.
Rioter Comments
Mr T MOE (NA)
: banned for freedom of speech now?
Freedom of speech protects you from the government. It doesn't protect you anywhere else.
: > [{quoted}](name=SavageConcordia,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-03-21T19:37:46.436+0000) > > Maybe if you played long enough to get placed at an appropriate MMR instead of getting banned it wouldn't seem arbitrary. There's no topic of subjectivity here. It IS arbitrary. Instead of taking stats and such into consideration, it's numbers based on win or lose--MMR. The matchmaking system isn't based on whether or not the players you're grouped with are a good fit for you as a player, but what your MMR is. Theoretically, you can have 0 minions killed per game, 0 kills, 10,000 deaths, 0 assists, (you get the idea) and be matched with someone with stats on the opposite ends because of MMR and that's a shame. > [{quoted}](name=MadMad Sickness,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-03-21T19:12:11.633+0000) The mute button does not miraculously make toxic players non-toxic. Toxicity exists in more than just chat, in case you didn't know. Muting them does not stop them from harassing you in other ways, such ass refusing to assist you when assistance is needed, refusing to play with the team, deciding to farm jungle for the rest of the game, never leaving lane ever again, etc etc. Like I said before, there's no miracle to end toxicity as a player forced to endure it. There is no way for us as players to stop toxic behavior and at the same time we're forced to endure it and are told not to respond or we'll be punished. And no, because I'm sure it'll be the next "miracle cure for toxicity," being nice in response does not solve the issue. See above statements about "muting."
> The mute button does not miraculously make toxic players non-toxic. Toxicity exists in more than just chat, in case you didn't know. Muting them does not stop them from harassing you in other ways, such ass refusing to assist you when assistance is needed, refusing to play with the team, deciding to farm jungle for the rest of the game, never leaving lane ever again, etc etc. Like I said before, there's no miracle to end toxicity as a player forced to endure it. There is no way for us as players to stop toxic behavior and at the same time we're forced to endure it and are told not to respond or we'll be punished. And no, because I'm sure it'll be the next "miracle cure for toxicity," being nice in response does not solve the issue. See above statements about "muting." I mean ya that's all obvious stuff. However, if they are griefing, and you report them then they will get punished (you can't deny that). Ya that one game will be ruined, but adding fuel to the flame doesn't ever make anything better: it makes things much worse. Besides, you can play around bad gameplay and continue to do your best. Eventually, if the game starts flipping and the enemy team starts throwing you may see a turn around of negative behavor because you left it open for them to come-around. It's not always the case, but it definetely matters. Otherwise, ff and que up again. You fail to realize that you can _always _ que up again (Unless you are banned). Ya it sucks if you lose every 1 out of so many games because of trolls, but the game is definitely not 100% trolls. Your attitude is what makes it seem that way. The mute button is to stop them from affecting your own gameplay. If they decide to play poorly, it's on them and their own gameplay. Luckily, if you mute them you won't be the one reported and punished.
: > [{quoted}](name=CritDoge,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=000000010001000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-21T19:14:00.341+0000)But overall, it doesn't feel like significant work has been put into the instant feedback system for a long time, and you know what, that's FINE. It is OKAY to not put player behavior as a high priority, AS LONG AS YOU OWN UP TO IT. > > My issue with Riot is that they CONTINUALLY say that they're working on it when it doesn't feel like any strides have been made in that department. It's fine to say a facet of your business is currently low priority. > > It is NOT okay to say you're working on something you're not. I think this is a perception issue. If the system has gone from, say, 99.5% accuracy to 99.75% accuracy, for example, that's actually a 50% improvement -- but that 50% improvement will not be noticed by any one player. If feeder detection has gone from taking 20 games to taking 15, that's a 25% improvement -- again, one that won't be noticed by any one individual player. I think it's unfair for us to simply assume that nothing is being done and Riot has an entire behavioral team just sitting back and relaxing -- I've met several Rioters, and all of them have been *super* passionate about building the best game they can, and doing right by the players, even in private conversations with no company eyes on them. I can't even *begin* to think they're lying to us about what that team is trying to do.
No system is 100% man. The tribunal wasn't even 100%. The USA law is definitely not 100%. Anyway, that's why we can send in tickets and stuff. It seems to me like you should have sent in a ticket at the time and asked for Riot to pull up the chat-logs for that one game. And besides, DJNN is right.
CritDoge (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=00000001000100000000,timestamp=2018-03-21T18:52:11.802+0000) > > You're confusing "we don't ban them as quickly as people would like us to be able to because we want to confirm that the bans are not improperly applied and having that level of certainty in an automated system is difficult" with "we don't man them." > > Riot *does* ban this behavior when it's found. In fact, they ban it very aggressively (save for AFKing, as that's impossible to get the reasons behind and might be out of someone's control). It earns a 14-day ban on the first punishment the system is confident in. I had a Rengar literally say "Shut the fuck up Ornn, you n****r." (Yes, with a hard R) to me last night. Didn't say anything back, just finished the game and reported him. From Riot's list of "byebye words," that should have been an immediate punishment, and I should have gotten the instant feedback report. Instead, nothing. In fact, this man went on to play five more games after that one.
It does take awhile for the system to respond adequately. Doesn't mean it's not working, could mean it's just taking time. You should check to see if he's still in-game, you may see that he's no longer on. But if he's still on, it could just be an off case. Either that, or that one game was the only time he has said it an been caught. However, this type of behavior usually catches up to people.
: A lot of these statements are unrealistic. > [{quoted}](name=MadMad Sickness,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-03-21T18:34:19.113+0000) > > Also if you reform your behavior, you'll get less instances of people being negative. You have to remember that you are the one producing a negative experience > > Not only this, but I think Riot does group people with honor together, Umm, what? So we're doing the victim-blaming thing? How is anyone in any way responsible for the toxicity of others? You could be in a game playing fine then you make one move that someone else calls a "mistake" and the toxicity from them begins. It's not your fault that toxic players exist, and it's most likely not your fault when someone is being toxic towards you. That's just a silly notion that you're presenting. "It's your fault that this random person you didn't speak to is abusive." As for that second part, is that true? I've gone game after game with at least 2 honors and then end up on a team full of people who spend the entire game insulting eachother while I've not said a thing. That doesn't seem to be the case. > [{quoted}](name=MadMad Sickness,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-03-21T18:37:58.895+0000) > > Endure the pain, because it leads to wins. No, it doesn't. There's no miracle here. Being constantly abused **DOES NOT STOP ABUSE** it just gives the abuser further reason to abuse--because they know nothing will happen to them. > [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2018-03-21T18:40:28.995+0000) > > Being toxic back doesn't do anything but make you just as bad. So if someone comes at me with the intent to take my life and I fight back, I'm just as bad as the aggressor? I don't think that's the way it works. All in all, **being able to play the game and keep everything you spent your money on** is not an "incentive" at all. An incentive is a gain, not the status quo. "Not being punished" shouldn't be a reward for dealing with the constant toxicity within this game's playerbase. One thing I missed though is the honor system in general, which does reward you for receiving honors. That depends on whether or not the players on your team actually honor you, though.
> [{quoted}](name=The Highest Noon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-03-21T19:03:16.524+0000) > > A lot of these statements are unrealistic. > > > Umm, what? So we're doing the victim-blaming thing? How is anyone in any way responsible for the toxicity of others? You could be in a game playing fine then you make one move that someone else calls a "mistake" and the toxicity from them begins. It's not your fault that toxic players exist, and it's most likely not your fault when someone is being toxic towards you. That's just a silly notion that you're presenting. "It's your fault that this random person you didn't speak to is abusive." Your right that it's not your fault when someone becomes toxic in-game but you are responsible for your own actions. If you antagonize an already toxic individual then you will just feed the fire, when you can just mute/report them. If they continue they will be banned (like you were). You yourself are proof that the system works because you were toxic and removed, twice. > As for that second part, is that true? I've gone game after game with at least 2 honors and then end up on a team full of people who spend the entire game insulting eachother while I've not said a thing. That doesn't seem to be the case. I don't think so at this point. But, I think behaviour does influence how people respond to you and you can egg-on someone into becoming toxic. > No, it doesn't. There's no miracle here. Being constantly abused **DOES NOT STOP ABUSE** it just gives the abuser further reason to abuse--because they know nothing will happen to them. The mute button is the miracle your looking for. > So if someone comes at me with the intent to take my life and I fight back, I'm just as bad as the aggressor? I don't think that's the way it works. This analogy isn't the same because your life isn't direclty threatened. However, the equivalent of the mute-button is to seperate you from your aggressor. The "fight or flight" response is relative here, but you are encouraged into the "flight" response because the "fight" response will just make things worse and won't resolve anything (which is why it's bannable). This is all psychology. > All in all, **being able to play the game and keep everything you spent your money on** is not an "incentive" at all. An incentive is a gain, not the status quo. "Not being punished" shouldn't be a reward for dealing with the constant toxicity within this game's playerbase. One thing I missed though is the honor system in general, which does reward you for receiving honors. That depends on whether or not the players on your team actually honor you, though. I think it is a good incentive, it's not the only incentive, but it is a large one. Just because you don't see it that way, doesn't mean it isn't.
: > [{quoted}](name=MadMad Sickness,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-03-21T18:34:19.113+0000)Also if you reform your behavior, you'll get less instances of people being negative. Precisely. Or, at least, you'll be able to better handle them and keep the game more positive in general. > Not only this, but I think Riot does group people with honor together, it's like an island of good behavior of sorts. Every now and then you get a rough cookie, but overall it's nice. They do not. They have said several times that they don't want either a Prisoner's Island scenario or the opposite.
> They do not. They have said several times that they don't want either a Prisoner's Island scenario or the opposite. Lol, i'm well aware of what Riot has said xD. But they did say when the honor system was implemented that you would get more people with honor in your games the more you are honored, if I remember that correctly. Anyway, there's always a difference between private and public policy. I've experienced waves of Good behavior, and then waves of bad behavior. Not sure where that comes from but it comes and goes. I think it's due to some built in priority que i'm not aware of, and I have attributed it to some sort of pseudo "island" lol. Anyway, you may be right too. I've just experienced it a bit differently, and Riot did mention something about the honor affecting who you get paired with. So, who knows for sure. I know riot probably knows, but they may not tell us haha. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Shukr4n (EUW)
: so endure the pain for the money u spent in the game? seems silly.
> [{quoted}](name=Shukr4n,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-03-21T18:36:47.308+0000) > > so endure the pain for the money u spent in the game? > > seems silly. Endure the pain, because it leads to wins. That's not silly, it's tactical.
: The incentive to reform is the ability to keep the content, levels, and skins you have unlocked, as well as the ability to generally have a better gameplay experience if you learn how to keep toxicity down and keep up your team's spirits instead of adding to the fire. It is not an incentive that works for everyone, but it is an incentive.
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1ht9qdk2,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-21T18:30:25.673+0000) > > The incentive to reform is the ability to keep the content, levels, and skins you have unlocked, as well as the ability to generally have a better gameplay experience if you learn how to keep toxicity down and keep up your team's spirits instead of adding to the fire. It is not an incentive that works for everyone, but it is an incentive. Also if you reform your behavior, you'll get less instances of people being negative. You have to remember that you are the one producing a negative experience and you are the one who is allowing your conversations, and games, to become negative and that is also feeding into how everyone else plays around you because you're distracting them from the game.
: State of the game
wow things are really even for some reason. Hopefully, we can get more people to vote lol.
: I need help regarding toxicity control
I mean this is basically what I do: 1. **acknowledge that the chat just became toxic and know how to identify a player that may trigger you.** 2. **choose to not instigate or respond to that behavior** -if you chose to respond, even mild toxicity may be considered low-toxicity and can add to your toxicity rating. -If conversation is beginning to lean towards toxicity, responses can make toxic players sour really, really quickly. 3. **Mute the behavior if you are at risk at responding in a toxic manner.** -if you feel yourself being triggered, or about to be triggered immediately step away from the conversation by muting that individual. -do not let yourself be baited. -do not tell the individual that they are muted -do not tell the individual that you are going to report them -just mute them without saying or instigating anything. 4. **Play the game out as best as you can and do your best to not even acknowledge the toxic individual, or individuals.** -note: in the case of toxic premades just /muteall. even if they all decide to report you, If you are responding appropriately the system will consider your report more valid than theirs. And so, your 1 report on each teammate is worth more than their 4 reports on you because yours is actually valid and you did not instigate any toxicity. 5. **When you get to the report screen, report all the players involved and move on.** ---- Seems to me also, that your getting into a habit of it. What you should do is work on reversing that habit or do something low key and less serious and then come-back to league. This is all psychological. You tend to act the same way around certain stimulus. The only way to reverse this behavior is to reverse your reaction to the stimulus. Work on taking the game less seriously. Maybe, try playing support? lol. GL to you
Rioter Comments
Mxnto816 (NA)
: Any reasons of me being perma banned?
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Kelan (EUW)
: Seven deadly s(k)ins?
: I want a Kermit and Dark Kermit meme of this.
> [{quoted}](name=One Best Gay,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=RwLT81TQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-13T17:42:18.893+0000) > > I want a Kermit and Dark Kermit meme of this. We need someone with glorious photo-shop skillz to help do this lol. I have none :'(
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Champion and skin sale: 02.23 - 02.26
varuhs neads hes ojlod spash bak
YuGiHo (NA)
: I hope shes a viable mid, she seems like an excellent duelist and suited to a solo lane but top is too long and its way too far form bot lane for when she ganks.
If you look at her kit, it's for all-inning and dps. However, she has no range. This is bad for laning botlane. The only other places she can go is top and jungle. And even top, if she gets counter-picked she's fked. This means the only safe-place for her is jungle. But then if she gets counter-jungled early shes effed. And worse yet, she has no sustain. At this point she's gonna be a niche pick. She doesn't have range and she's essentially a stat-bucket diver. Think of diana: Kai'sai ult is basically diana with shields. She'll probs be the same way only with ad lol
Potchikir (EUW)
: she haves the same range as {{champion:236}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:96}}
dude... Lucian has a desengage/engage that reduce in cd, and his ult has a massive, massive range. Sivir has her spell shield/and 1250 range poke. And kogmaw.... he is all range and ballistic power. Your examples aren't even comparable. Question is though, can Kai'Sai compete with just her invisibility and engage? That's all i'm saying. Her ult is basically diana and she's basically a ranged {{champion:121}} without a leap. Worse still... she's a feast or famine stat bucket. She's gonna go top man lol.
Potchikir (EUW)
: but she haves a 4 hit passive
> [{quoted}](name=Potchikir,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TIhKePOW,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-02-25T20:23:35.015+0000) > > but she haves a 4 hit passive So she's essentially gnar but without the rage/renekton/hp stat buff and built more like vayne. Instead, shes a ranged scaling dps with a 4 on-hit passive. Shes basically a mix of vayne/irelia
: I think she actually has potential. Her kit has some interesting mechanics, and people on Reddit have been saying that she feels pretty good and would really only need some compensation buffs if anything, maybe a couple more points in range to help bottom lane. Her kit has counterplay and you actually have to build stuff to get her bonus effects, you don't just get them right off the bat. Her abilities all have counterplay and the more attack speed she builds the shorter her invisibility is. That's right, her only escape actually gets shorter the more attack speed she builds. Her W can be dodged, her Q becomes weaker if you group up, she has counterplay.
I'm sure all of that is true, that's exactly my point. She's going to do really well in the beginning (which is right now) but eventually the same design flaws are going to be addressed because they have been addressed in other champions who have been designed the same way. We are in the beginning phases were all of this is good, she's SUPPOSED to be doing good because she was just released. But, keep in mind that this is still only the beginning. At some point she's gonna get the hammer because she's a ranged toplaner. It's too early to tell. But this is my hindsight.
Rioter Comments
: I'd imagine the auto-fill support problem's only gotten worse ever since Rito gave support players the shaft in Patch 8.2, I used to be a support main and those changes were so godawful that I'm actually boycotting the role altoghether
this post was 3 months ago bro LOL. So i'm guessing it hasn't changed xD. By lowering the effect of supports you lower the effect of the skill difference for when you autofill them. I haven't seen the changes so I can't confirm. But judging from your reaction, this is probably the lines of thinking they came too... only it took them 3 months from when I made my own analysis LOL. I disagree with the changes though, seems like they're opting out of balancing by just lowering the effectiveness of the support role altogether. Riot needs to fix their game...
: I really mean no offense OP, but my feeling here is that you take your preconceptions against a real world practice and apply them to something totally unrelated. Nothing in LoL Lore ties "Demons" to some video game version of Satan. There is no downfall from heaven, no making people stray from God's way (since there is no God in Runeterra), etc. Demons aren't an army serving an evil overlord. There is no concept of Hell. Like, there is nothing in common, except the word. And to top it off, your preconception about Satanism are over the top and just plain wrong. "Abuse and sacrifice children", really? A few madmen certainly did that in the name of Satan at some point, but no organized Satanist group ever promoted that behavior. I invite you to read that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism#Religious_Satanism You don't have to agree with their beliefs any more than you have to agree with any other religion/philosophy, be it Judaism, Buddhism or whatever. But painting them as bloodthirsty perverts killing children is an insult to intelligence. So, wrong perceptions applied to something totally unrelated, the whole of it is doubly absurd. And to add a third layer to everything else, going back to LoL proper: * Graves DID get his cigar back. * As for Swain, the very point of his character is that he **beat** the Demon, not that he surrenders to its influence. * If you want to get riled up at something, talk about Evelynn. Did you listen to her VO? Damn, she's lewd and explicit, far beyond anything Swain-related.
>You don't have to agree with their beliefs any more than you have to agree with any other religion/philosophy, be it Judaism, Buddhism or whatever. But painting them as bloodthirsty perverts killing children is an insult to intelligence. > > So, wrong perceptions applied to something totally unrelated, the whole of it is doubly absurd. Well, there have been documented cases of these ritualistic offenses and it would make sense for the church to not endorse these rituals because they are against the law. There is always a difference between public and private policy. (Ahem, why do you think Donald Trump did not endorse white supremacy yet still caters to their idealisms...) Also, according to accounts from people who have left the church: these are indeed practiced (to the horror of most people investigating such things). I would not be so naive as to doubt the capacity of a person or group of persons to accomplish such evil. Anyway, this will probably the last thing i'll say on this matter because such things are very unsettling. I only initially made that hyperbole to make a point about how I feel about the game. The point was for that statement to be absurd, but I still believe in my main point. Needless to say that my own personal opinion hasn't changed: Swain is CRINGY AF
: Thanks for the additional thoughts, there's definitely a lot we could do to make demons more specific, as you say. But they're not completely undefined either, it just takes a bit of digging. That's part of what I tried to explain... devil shouldn't really be coming up. I hope we can do more to resolve this for you in future stories! (Although that would mean more stories about demons. {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}})
Thanks for your response again Devil is coming up though. Look at all of swain's descriptions. Demonic Ascension, demonic wave, demonic eye... Demon, demon, demon. As for an explanations and stories. I wouldn't mind an explanation so I can get the headcannon right for this freakin game. Right now its bothering me and cringing because i'm seeing them as a contrast to my own religion and religious beliefs. Doesn't matter if he supposedly "beat" the demon so that he can use his power... Who the hell is the demon? What is he? Where is he coming from? Is he some sort of Elemental spirit? Know what I mean?
Chrige (NA)
: Just going to ignore people like Soraka who gave up her immortality to help people, Anivia who spends her enless life protecting the tribes of her homeland, Bard a god like being dedicated to good, Kayle is an angel of justice straight from the religion you seem to want to apply to a fictional setting. Nope, no good characters at all, just evil ones. Braums a murderer, Janna steals from the poor, and taric wants to blow up the world. Yup, nothing but villians here. /sarcasm
> [{quoted}](name=Chrige,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=jp6fPPRq,comment-id=001600040005,timestamp=2018-02-11T20:07:50.368+0000) > > Just going to ignore people like Soraka who gave up her immortality to help people, Anivia who spends her enless life protecting the tribes of her homeland, Bard a god like being dedicated to good, Kayle is an angel of justice straight from the religion you seem to want to apply to a fictional setting. > Nope, no good characters at all, just evil ones. Braums a murderer, Janna steals from the poor, and taric wants to blow up the world. Yup, nothing but villians here. /sarcasm Those examples are good. And they do show that there are good characters, as you say. But none of them directly contrast and balance out swain, because none of those fit into the same category as what I'm talking about.. And Kayle isn't even a good enough of an example. She's Like the only one I consider acceptable... yet she seriously lacks in terms of being fleshed out. But even then, Morganna is her balancing force: the yin to her yang. So she's already taken in that regard. Right now Swain sticks out like a sore thumb to me, theres an over-abundance of demonic references and demonic themes without any Direct, Direct forces to counterbalance them. It's seriously annoying.
Kelb4n (EUW)
: I find this not funny at all. The person who wrote this post obviously has moral boundaries that League of Legends is challenging. As a lore geek I know that demons in Runeterra have nothing to do with our world demons, but as a believing christian I think it makes sense to look twice when playing a champion (or playing a game) that has something to do with demons, in any way, shape or form.
: The blatant demonism and satanism in the game is getting out of hand.
At this point i've let off some steam and I'm glad I response from a red. I do appreciate all of your responses and mentioning's, whether they were criticisms or not I did take in what yall had to say. Also, I didn't see that graves got his cigar back so I guess that invalidates my lame attempt at a meme. If Interlocutioner responds then i'll prob continue, but I can't really keep up with this thread I guess it's the end of me posting on here lol.
: That's fair and all, but if you're a scientist, you should check your statements for fallacies and logical blunders. For instance you claim it's a direct reference to satanism. I would expect a quote or something to back up that claim. I mean most people have at least been read the bible or read it themselves, so if only you are claiming that, it would seem that you're just saying what sounds good or that you are making connections/comparisons that aren't as strong as you make them out to be. I for one haven't read the bible, but have had it preached to me my whole life in church, and I can't really think of anything that either connects directly to satan or to the stereotypical satanic cult practices. Yes, there's some correlation, but none of it hits on the mark, and most of it is founded on connecting over the word demon, whereas the word means two slightly different things in their respective contexts. Not vastly different, but enough that semantics would come into play. Another example would be comparing the cigar and satanic references. These two should be in no way comparable for magnitude of [bad to include in a game]. It creates a problem for your argument because for it to have a logical flow to the argument or for the comparison to be true, either a cigar would have to be considered really bad, or a satanic reference not all that bad. How the evaluation of that statement goes is something like: A is comparable to B, so B must be similar to A, but B is not similar, so A is not comparable to B. And it invalidates a statement in your post, weakening the credibility of the post as a whole. I'm not saying you are wrong to feel this way, or that you are wrong. All I want to point out is that you are not presenting this in a clear, calm, and credible way. There needs to be a format like: Swain is a satanic reference (thesis), this is a satanic reference (present a quote or some credible source showing a satanic reference that you think compares to Swain), this is a Swain lore/interaction/VO (present a quote of Swain from LoL somewhere that overlaps a lot with the satanic reference), these quotes are similar (maybe explain how they are similar if not apparent), therefore Swain is a satanic reference. It's all well and good to say this is how you feel, but if you want something to be done about it and not just vent/complain, then you need to present it as a logical argument so that people can understand exactly why you feel this way, where the precise source is, and whether there is a line of reasoning and not just feelings that popped up. Because feelings are volatile, and sometimes unwarranted, so there needs to be something more when doing a post like this if you want to accomplish something.
When your upset you kinda lose track of what's upsetting you. You just see red so your right in that i'm a bit of a mess here lol. If my logic and reasoning are skewed is because I did just rush in to write this lol. I went into this assuming it wouldn't accomplish anything because I know i'm in the minority here, so I did neglect all those things you mentioned. Needless to say, you presented a good argument. As for you being preached the bible your whole life, I can honestly tell you that most preachers are air heads with little understanding of the bible. Sadly, there are alot of people in Christianity that are close-minded about certain subjects and will choose to hate and persecute when the bible is about loving your neighbor, and loving God. Christianity has gotten a bit of a bad rep as of late lol. Second hand, and third hand knowledge is pretty cheap from my experience of multiple church hoppings. God's presence is a fire: very few people understand that and understand what that means. That's probably all i'll say on this because I really don't want to start arguing religion (even though that's kinda where this is headed). So i'll probs stop posting when this gets out of hand and people start making this more personal then it needs to be. Though I do appreciate your levelheadedness with this post.
: Hey MadMad, I'm sorry the demon thing is getting to you. I think it might help to try to look beyond the word itself. Runeterra is not our world, and it has nothing to do with any real world religions. Demon is really just handy way to say "malevolent spirit preying upon humanity, in a world where there are also good spirits (most of them small and furry!!) and magic exists too." The origin of the word itself, [daimon](https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=daimon), just means a kind of spirit. Its culture that applies additional meaning. Note how often you used the word Satan. Demons of this sort (not tied to religion) have appeared in fantasy literature since almost the beginning, even if different words are used ([Umaiar](http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Demons), for example, from LotR). It's a natural consequence of magic flowing through Runeterra, IMHO. There are places/things where it twists and curdles and... that's probably a good thing. It would be less interesting if there were only fields full of butterflies and rainbows. That's probably what exists in Lulu's head and she's not exactly stable. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} Anyway, I bet if I said all this to my grandmother she would not really buy the argument, and so I don't expect anyone to who isn't prepared to. We all have our own tolerances for things and moral boundaries. I was personally somewhat disturbed in my first PUBG match, the hopelessness of hiding and knowing that the only way to survive would be to resort to violence. I stepped away from the keyboard feeling hollow, it made me question how much I value my own life. Real Urgot kinda $*@(. I would not be a Son of Ur. tldr, would you be as upset if we just referred to vague "evil spirits"? Is it something about the word we've used? After 40k, Dragon Age, Lord of the Rings, Dungeons and Dragons, it doesn't tilt me at all because I've seen it applied so many ways. We're all different, thankfully. And thanks for your thoughts.
First off, I do appreciate your response and i'm really happy to see you diving into this conversation. I really respect you mods and am happy whenever I get to talk to one of you. Anyway, I want to start off by saying that I'm not your grandmother though lol, and I consider myself to be a very down to earth person with a capable amount of reasoning and logic. I'm also very forgiving and can let go of most things. The problem for me is that Riot's concepts of "demon" isn't clear, and it seems out of place. See, in dark souls demons were created because a witch tried to recreate the flame. It went horrible wrong and so evil things came into existence. When you guys start talking about demons and the Like i'm going to think about how I see demons because those are my interpretations. You guys haven't fleshed them out well enough so the end result is something that has to be infered. Swain as a character who sold his soul to the devil doesn't make sense to me. Who is the devil in your video game? Another thing is that there seems to be an imbalance of power. Where is swain's counterpart? Where is the yin to his yang? Who is his "Rey" to his "Kylo Ren". If there was a person of comparable "good" to the extreme that swain is "bad" then I would feel better about it. Right now, it seems like there are too many devils in this video game, and it's enough that it's putting me off.
SEKAI (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=MadMad Sickness,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=jp6fPPRq,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-02-08T10:11:50.488+0000) > > Paganism and other religions are fine, mainly because they're based on history and are more towards fantasy. Demonic references are more edgy and offensive: hence why riot is pushing it so hard. > > You know, if there were more direct angelic references I wouldn't mind so much because I would see it as fair. I could balance it in my mind: Light vs Dark shet. > > This whole thing is inconsistent tho, and it's making me cringe. You do realise that historically speaking, the concept of demons more or less started when Judaism was influenced by the concept of dualism that existed in Ancient Greek's mythology (in Judaism, God is "One". All the good things and the bad things are aspects of God. Demons and such loosely exists in their beliefs, but they're non-binding), and then branch out to form Christianity, or something along those lines?
> [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=jp6fPPRq,comment-id=000700000001,timestamp=2018-02-08T15:40:59.954+0000) > > You do realise that historically speaking, the concept of demons more or less started when Judaism was influenced by the concept of dualism that existed in Ancient Greek's mythology (in Judaism, God is "One". All the good things and the bad things are aspects of God. Demons and such loosely exists in their beliefs, but they're non-binding), and then branch out to form Christianity, or something along those lines? Gonna look this up, this is interesting if what you say is true lol.
: This is either the greatest troll thread of the century, or someone who is in great need of a mental facility, either way. I'm amused. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
Lol hardly in need of a mental facility. I'm being serious. And just because I believe in certain things doesn't make me insane. It just means I have experienced the world differently and have seen things that have lead me to certain conclusions. You don't believe in the same because you have experienced the world differently. Personally, i'm a scientist so I don't say these lightly and I have my own opinions. If I believe that God and the devil exist it's because I have come to that conclusion from personal experiences. Just because men cannot see or comprehend something does not mean it doesn't exist. Men are only capable of understanding what they are capable of understanding while everything else is left to the realms of "cannot be understood or comprehended". And as for it being a troll thread, you know initially i was very bummed and 100% serious but it kinda is becoming a bit of a troll thread lol...
zoliking (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=MadMad Sickness,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=jp6fPPRq,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-02-08T09:18:13.005+0000) > > I logged in and took the time to message this because it's getting kinda ridiculous. > > Swain's entire theme is about demonic influences and other things, this is direct satanism and i find it very, very annoying and cringy AF. It has no place in this game rated "T". > > Seriously though, I've been kinda complacent with some of the things that i've seen because I like the game and I like to play it, so I have been ignoring them. Granted, they havent been bad up to now and have been underplayed. Aatrox, for example, is a demonic theme but his is interesting because he's actually a Darkin (which is a species). Demonic Vi is a skin, so I don't see it often enough for it to bother me. > > However, swain's latest theme is converging towards direct satanic references and I can't even stand Freak's champion spotlight. > > What's next Riot? are you gonna make one of your champions abuse and sacrifice children? Is the next champion theme going to be about demonic orgies, demonic symbols, and other shet right out of their satanic bible? What the hell are you guys thinking... Its so dumb. > > I'm normally one to not even give a fk about these sorts of things and play the game. I played Dark souls for Christ's sake. Your sht is getting out of hand, and between this and the terrible rune system my confidence in your company decisions is dropping drastically. > > > I havn't played a game since the beginning of pre-season... > > Seriously, are u guys Satanists that you would push for the inclusion of these themes into your game? If I wanted to play an "edgy" game I would play Path of exile or diablo, having these themes in the game is annoying. > > edit: I'm fine if yall downvote me. This is my honest to God opinion and how I feel. I already know I'm in the minority. However, what i'm saying is still worth saying even if Riot doesn't realize it and even if the majority of you don't care and want to see more demonic references in this game that's rated "T". You do realize that LoL is make believe, right? As in, adding a character that draws his power from demonic sources has no effect on the world other than that character's abilities and lore changes, right? Please tell me that even if you believe in nonsense like demons you can tell reality and fantasy apart? > Edit 2: FOR GOD'S SAKE MEN. GRAVES CAN'T EVEN HAVE A CIGAR, AND THESE FOOLS ARE LETTING SWAIN RUN AROUND WITH DEMONIC REFERENCES. WHAT THE HELL KIND OF HYPOCRISY IS THAT LOL. Well, cigars are bad for you and presenting them as cool was deemed by some sort of agency to be a health hazard. It's bullshit censorship if you ask me, but at least there are valid arguments on the other side too. Demons are scary beings from fiction and depicting them can't possibly harm anybody.
Lol being make beleive isn't the problem. The problem here is that these demonic references are becoming excessive, imbalanced, and inconsistent. And it's complete cringe.
GreenLore (EUW)
: The mystery was part of the character already for quite some time and the general solution(he made some pact with a demon) was fairly obvious,so yeah keeping that part of his character a mystery would have been half assed. And in general riot wants characters to represent an archetype or a fantasy that is unique to them. Taliyah is not just a stone mage,she is THE stone mage of the game. Ornn isn't just a blacksmith,he is THE blacksmith of the game,etc. Sure they add some unique twists to these themes,but the core theme is still there and properly represented. So for Swain they pretty much had 2 archetypes that they could go with. Either they focus on the warlock or the strategist. However since the strategist part would have required some drastic gameplay changes to be properly represented in the game,they went with the warlock theme. And because of this,Swain is not just a warlock in the game,but he is THE warlock of the game and as such they needed to make sure to make this core to his character.
I mean, what you said is fair. My only beef is that it's inconsistent with other themes. For example, Aatrox is a darkin: a demonic-like being, but not exactly a demon. This is the first time i'm seeing such blatant demonism in their character themes. I guess, ya this is making swain unique but I see it as inconsistent both to other demonic themes and also to the balance of league as a whole in terms of Light and Dark.
: Honestly, the League universe needs a powerful good force. The closest things we have are Bard and Nagakaborous, Bard doesn't do crap unless necessary and Naga's almost certainly more complicated than that.
> [{quoted}](name=Helixarrow,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=jp6fPPRq,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-02-08T11:36:12.814+0000) > > Honestly, the League universe needs a powerful good force. The closest things we have are Bard and Nagakaborous, Bard doesn't do crap unless necessary and Naga's almost certainly more complicated than that. This is basically what I think. Since we have a force of supreme evil like swain: why don't we have one of supreme good that's just as powerful. There's too much imbalance for me to feel good about it. Riot isn't maintaining any balance and has more evil than good. There needs to be more yin and yang.
GreenLore (EUW)
: Not bringing it out would have just resulted in getting a half assed mystery though.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenLore,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=jp6fPPRq,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-08T10:18:41.146+0000) > > Not bringing it out would have just resulted in getting a half assed mystery though. Mysteries don't have to be half-assed. Have you played Dark souls?
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MadMad Sickness

Level 46 (NA)
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