: New Ranking system is for the LULs
At this point i am willing to try anything, just lost series bcz of feeders and afks.
: Autofill isn't the problem dude. Before autofill is was "pick order" in which case your jg wouldn't have gotten mid and still would have trolled. It literally has nothing to do with autofill and everything to do with not getting rid of the trolls in the game. Increasing queue times isn't going to change that.
> [{quoted}](name=Oohaha Sharkbait,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WdnHql73,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-25T12:55:23.514+0000) > > Autofill isn't the problem dude. Before autofill is was "pick order" in which case your jg wouldn't have gotten mid and still would have trolled. It literally has nothing to do with autofill and everything to do with not getting rid of the trolls in the game. Increasing queue times isn't going to change that. Actually this is incorrect. Before Auto Fill every elo before Master had to wait 5m max with the bottom 2 elos only waiting about 1m more than they do now. Auto Fill was added for the top elo and low elo who didnt really need it have it forced on them. Riot put out a graph a while back shortly after adding autofill that pretty much says just that. Auto Fill at the very least should work like it used to and kick in after x minutes instead of just randomly like it does now. i could be in queue for less than 1m and still get autofilled. At the very least i think you shouldn't be autofilled while you are in series given the importance of those games.
: "Forced 50% WR" is just a result of reaching your peak.
To be honest with you, i dunno why we are even debating that there is a problem with the Match Making System. There shouldn't exist a situation where 90% of the population reside in 2 Elos when there are 7 elos.
: It isn't midlane's duty to be Ap; It's the teams duty. ( Play Kog, Ziggs or corky adc, play An ap top or jungler or even an Ap support) It isn't the Top's duty to bring a tank; It's the teams duty. ( Play Galio, Swain, Cho gath Mid, Tanky jungler or support) It isn't the jungler's Red buff or blue buff or ¨My jungle¨ ; It's Red/Blue team jungle. ( ¨Stop Stealing my camps¨ ) I hope you all change your mentality of the game one day.
> [{quoted}](name=Red Space ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0NK9G8zA,comment-id=001f,timestamp=2018-04-25T00:19:49.141+0000) > > It isn't midlane's duty to be Ap; It's the teams duty. ( Play Kog, Ziggs or corky adc, play An ap top or jungler or even an Ap support) > It isn't the Top's duty to bring a tank; It's the teams duty. ( Play Galio, Swain, Cho gath Mid, Tanky jungler or support) > It isn't the jungler's Red buff or blue buff or ¨My jungle¨ ; It's Red/Blue team jungle. ( ¨Stop Stealing my camps¨ ) > > I hope you all change your mentality of the game one day. You missed the point entirely The point is, if you have a problem with your team's picks than pick something to help it out or shut up. If you are unwilling to do that then do not expect anyone else to. This goes along the lines of: *Top lane locks in squishy* : We need tanks *Both Top and JG lock in squishies* : Go Tanky Support *Mid locks in AD*: We need AP ect If you really cared about team comp then you would either A. pick to complement it or B. Ask people what they prefer.
: Live footage of RiotRepertoir openly admitting a serious problem in the game
Can't have those pesky Mages popping those shields too often now can we. -Riot
: >Fact: No one ever said this, the compensation is literally in the same post as the nerf. lol you clearly don't go to the same boards that I do.
> [{quoted}](name=Marshbouy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6w3NQEYl,comment-id=000b0001,timestamp=2018-04-24T20:34:09.850+0000) > > lol you clearly don't go to the same boards that I do. Well can't help it if you read the title of things and draw conclusions from it. I mean take this thread for example, its getting upvoted regardless of the fact that A. No one is arguing that the Mage changes is not healthy for the class overall and B. His own data is flawed so he is saying the Doran's Ring Change is not a nerf when it is in fact a nerf.
: How to counter Swain
Was hoping for something a bit more insightful than dodge skillshots.
: Unlocked or Locked Camera? 3 or 4 Fingers? Flash on D or F?
: > [{quoted}](name=Shadow Hazard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6w3NQEYl,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2018-04-24T19:20:34.644+0000) > > One issue I see with the point about the stacking potential. Wasn't the minion kill mana return made unique because of it ended up becoming an abusive mechanic on tanks? And with it offering bonus on hit damage to minions, it will push their early shoving up to being actually even stronger than when it was a problem when they when for double D's. Why buy another Doran's ring to hit minions a little harder though? 400 gold for 5 damage doesn't seem worth (the 350g longsword gives you+10 damage, or you could buy a Cull even), I can't think of any champion who could abuse the minion passive
> [{quoted}](name=Wild Geese,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6w3NQEYl,comment-id=00150000,timestamp=2018-04-24T19:32:47.964+0000) > > Why buy another Doran's ring to hit minions a little harder though? 400 gold for 5 damage doesn't seem worth (the 350g longsword gives you+10 damage, or you could buy a Cull even), I can't think of any champion who could abuse the minion passive To be honest with you, the champs i played that didnt really need the 50% mana regen i would just get a Dark Ring instead and the ones that did ill prolly get a corruption pot. Worst thing is that i may actually be forced into a {{item:3040}} now. The irony is that they just stopped getting everyone to buy it.
Zed genius (EUNE)
: If your mid locks ad, you either pick ap jungler/top or accept the full ad comp. You can't force someone to play a specific type of champion because you don't want to play ap top maybe they don't want to play ap mid? Just saying
> [{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0NK9G8zA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-24T13:20:53.239+0000) > > If your mid locks ad, you either pick ap jungler/top or accept the full ad comp. You can't force someone to play a specific type of champion because you don't want to play ap top maybe they don't want to play ap mid? Just saying At this point i think you are just fishing for downvotes, you've never said anything remotely close to something rational.
: PSA: Assassins aren't supposed to be able to kill an adc next to their support if they aren't fed
They cant even do it when fed though right now, the peels are really insane. Also the problem with what you believe an assassin's job is, the current meta is ball up and force objectives after laning. So if an assassin cannot take out a carry when not fed they may never be able to bcz even if they split up if they are not fed they cannot ever catch them. Hince why mages are so popular and Assassins are not.
: I swear to god as a mid laner I'm going to start bringing smite.
I feel you OP and it's about to get much worse sadly :( Riot doesn't seem to want to keep bot lane bot and junglers in the jungle but has a problem with mid farm.
xnr (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=JustaNewb,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cra1GKUI,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-04-24T14:08:45.582+0000) > > Yeah, as someone who is having to grind up through silver, for the first time since Season 4, due to one of my accounts getting hacked and dumping rank? Silver is hell. I've grinded through silver many times on every role (I'm horrible at all of them but jg and support and bad at jg and support) never once have I had an issue. The only time I've kept a 50% wr or close to it was the first season I started playing. If everyone who complains about how hard silver is would just learn how the game works they wouldn't be in silver. Nobody here has argued against any of the statements I've made about why elo hells not real like "if boosting is a thing how is elo hell real? People don't pay other players to get lucky on their accounts" instead they just tell me how hard silver is for them, which is probably because they're silver or low gold players. If you improve yourself as a player you'll be able to climb out of it. The only person you can change is yourself, yes you can ping your teammates and shotcall, and if you have even a little bit of decent game knowledge I would highly recommend doing that in silver because even bad calls work lots of the time in silver as long as everyone follows through with it on your team because the enemy team will just be lost and disjointed. And no by ping I don'g mean spam ping the yasuo who just got solo killed in lane, or spam assist me assist me because you're losing lane. That never helps. Anyways, hope you can get through silver and climb even higher than that dude, goodluck and have fun!
> [{quoted}](name=xnr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cra1GKUI,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-04-24T14:17:44.523+0000) > > I've grinded through silver many times on every role (I'm horrible at all of them but jg and support and bad at jg and support) never once have I had an issue. The only time I've kept a 50% wr or close to it was the first season I started playing. If everyone who complains about how hard silver is would just learn how the game works they wouldn't be in silver. Nobody here has argued against any of the statements I've made about why elo hells not real like "if boosting is a thing how is elo hell real? People don't pay other players to get lucky on their accounts" instead they just tell me how hard silver is for them, which is probably because they're silver or low gold players. If you improve yourself as a player you'll be able to climb out of it. The only person you can change is yourself, yes you can ping your teammates and shotcall, and if you have even a little bit of decent game knowledge I would highly recommend doing that in silver because even bad calls work lots of the time in silver as long as everyone follows through with it on your team because the enemy team will just be lost and disjointed. And no by ping I don'g mean spam ping the yasuo who just got solo killed in lane, or spam assist me assist me because you're losing lane. That never helps. Anyways, hope you can get through silver and climb even higher than that dude, goodluck and have fun! Have you grinded through silver this season though?
: its sad to see people downvote this because they think elo hell is an actual thing. i went from bronze 5 to gold 1 with barely any problems solo carrying last season
> [{quoted}](name=UnboundHades,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cra1GKUI,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-22T19:01:30.004+0000) > > its sad to see people downvote this because they think elo hell is an actual thing. i went from bronze 5 to gold 1 with barely any problems solo carrying last season Previous season i would agree with you but this season is a lot different. You are a lot less able to solo carry and a lot of the lanes that can(mainly bot/jg) still require your laners to be somewhat decent.
: Or they could do the mana changes now when no games are going on. (Think the play ins just started?) Regardless. It doesn't matter anyway because you say it puts mages further behind than adc's when the op point was it wasn't really that much of a "nerf" just making seraphs less generalist. So in that way it leaves mages right where they are if not better but just changes things around (only time will tell how good this change is) secondly, if you have ever designed a game or anything the process pretty much works for big stuff like this everyone throws ideas around and they scrap them but sometimes one of them sticks and then you better get designing it while you have the idea. Unless there is proper reason to wait (like the adc update). Somebody at riot probably had this idea and everyone else liked it so he got to work and it is done right now so they are shipping it. That's normally how this stuff works. Makes no sense to wait till after teh adc's. Why not release it now and if they need changing before the next lcs season they can do it and have lots of data to make the proper changes since this is a pretty big change for the lcs.
> [{quoted}](name=PG Sparky,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6w3NQEYl,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-24T14:04:31.783+0000) > > Or they could do the mana changes now when no games are going on. (Think the play ins just started?) Regardless. It doesn't matter anyway because you say it puts mages further behind than adc's when the op point was it wasn't really that much of a "nerf" just making seraphs less generalist. So in that way it leaves mages right where they are if not better but just changes things around (only time will tell how good this change is) secondly, if you have ever designed a game or anything the process pretty much works for big stuff like this everyone throws ideas around and they scrap them but sometimes one of them sticks and then you better get designing it while you have the idea. Unless there is proper reason to wait (like the adc update). Somebody at riot probably had this idea and everyone else liked it so he got to work and it is done right now so they are shipping it. That's normally how this stuff works. Makes no sense to wait till after teh adc's. Why not release it now and if they need changing before the next lcs season they can do it and have lots of data to make the proper changes since this is a pretty big change for the lcs. Its a pretty big nerf actually in problematic areas. Starter item gives you a flat 30 mana per min. Compared to corruption potion that gives 75 mana per use, it would take the doran's ring over 2m to match the mana of 1 use of the potion. The Corruption potion is also more gold efficient if you use more than 2 potions early game as well. The increase cost of the lost chapter means we have to be in lane longer to buy it mixed with the fact that we have less mana means we will spend even more time farming then actually poking because now we cannot afford to waste the mana on poking since the 50% base mana regen is gone and we require even more gold than before for our items. If their goal is to make assassins more viable in the LCS/Group competitive play then this will not do it If their goal is to make Mages poke/fight more this will have the opposite effect. All these changes will do is make mid even weaker than it already is. To put it in perspective for you, it would be like if my house was on fire and instead of doing the obvious and trying to put it out, i instead tried to fix my broken table first.
: Why complain that it is before the bot lane changes? Riot already said that was the mid season patch. So why not do it now since riot obviously had the time and this is a pretty significant change so they can't do it during an LCS season. That just seems like such a terrible reason to hate the mage update when riot told us when to expect the bot lane changes...
> [{quoted}](name=PG Sparky,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6w3NQEYl,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2018-04-24T13:54:03.552+0000) > > Why complain that it is before the bot lane changes? Riot already said that was the mid season patch. So why not do it now since riot obviously had the time and this is a pretty significant change so they can't do it during an LCS season. That just seems like such a terrible reason to hate the mage update when riot told us when to expect the bot lane changes... Because you ar eputting mid behind bot even further than it already is in game impact thats why. Its clear which ones should take precedence. Also your statement is kinda contradictory, the mana changes are pretty huge for LCS and they could of easily added them to mid season/directly after the bot changes so what exactly is your point point. P.S.: OP Doran's Ring IS actually weaker than live , i noticed you compared the "5 mana per 5 seconds" to the "4 upon killing a unit" but completely ignored the removal of the "50% mana regen" which makes it actually worse than live doran's ring(which the devs themselves said it would be worse). The +5 hit to minions is nothing. You didnt take Doran's ring for the minion mana on kill, you took it for the 50% Mana regen. For early game {{item:2033}} is just going to be more effective in every way.
Rioter Comments
: Fact and fiction: Mana changes
"Myth: All mana for mages has been nerfed with no compensation." Fact: No one ever said this, the compensation is literally in the same post as the nerf. Fact: We all know this is not an early game/laning nerf but a mid game nerf Fact: Won't stop Mages from being dominant in the LCS because we are not the ones making Assassins un-viable in group play. Fact: While yes the passive is doubled on lost chapter it presents two problem. Its mostly done to offset the mana nerfs and it take longer to hit our spike, overall the change just means bot lane is spiking even faster than they do now compared to us. Final Fact: The OP actually didn't read what mage mains are complaining about, like at all.
: THANK YOU! FFS I really hope the community finally understands.
> [{quoted}](name=l Ryden l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6w3NQEYl,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-24T05:41:42.482+0000) > > THANK YOU! > > FFS I really hope the community finally understands. This post hasn't addressed any of the talking points, its talking about something ppl arent complaining about.
: Fact and fiction: Mana changes
Myth: Mages are complaining about mana changes because they think its going to gut mages Fact: Mages are complaining about mana changes because they are before bot lane changes and does nothing to address Assassin's Viability. Conclusion, this thread is pointless and much like the Dev,s the OP is reading nothing but titles.
: "Forced 50% WR" is just a result of reaching your peak.
Not really "reaching my peak" when i am still stomping the same opponents but my other lanes are getting stomped beyond repair.
: my support rage quit 7 minutes in and 2 of my teammates refuse to say yes to the ff vote
I think people are delusional about whats winnable most of the time and half the time they are the reason things are not winnable. I base if a game is winnable mostly by how people are playing. if we are behind and people are just running in and dying constantly, chances are they are not learning from what got them feeding in the first place.
Ifneth (NA)
: Riot can’t really “hit” marksmen. The fundamentals of the game means that they are inherently relevant. Champions have health, armor, and magic resistance and can deal either burst damage with their abilities or sustained damage with basic attacks. Building tank items hard-counters burst because they offer health and resistance. Therefore, the only thing that can kill a champion who builds tank items is sustained damage, which comes from basic attacks. Hence the attack-damage. Basic attacks can be improved with either critical strike or on-hit items. Both kinds stack to grow the power of their owner to the point of being able to kill a tank. Hence the carry. A team literally needs an attack damage carry, also called a marksman to accommodate on-hit champions, or else it will be steamrolled over by tanks and juggernauts. Team compositions without a marksman cannot become the meta because of this counter-composition. Hence my saying that Riot cannot “hit” marksmen. Unless they are so weak that they cannot even kill a tank in any reasonable time, and therefore another champion could be a better choice, teams will pick them. And if Riot did make them that weak, then tanks and juggernauts would become overbearing because there would be nothing left to stop them.
> [{quoted}](name=Ifneth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tNcGpN5K,comment-id=0000000100010000,timestamp=2018-04-22T18:46:18.807+0000) > > Riot can’t really “hit” marksmen. The fundamentals of the game means that they are inherently relevant. > > Champions have health, armor, and magic resistance and can deal either burst damage with their abilities or sustained damage with basic attacks. Building tank items hard-counters burst because they offer health and resistance. Therefore, the only thing that can kill a champion who builds tank items is sustained damage, which comes from basic attacks. Hence the attack-damage. > > Basic attacks can be improved with either critical strike or on-hit items. Both kinds stack to grow the power of their owner to the point of being able to kill a tank. Hence the carry. > > A team literally needs an attack damage carry, also called a marksman to accommodate on-hit champions, or else it will be steamrolled over by tanks and juggernauts. Team compositions without a marksman cannot become the meta because of this counter-composition. > > Hence my saying that Riot cannot “hit” marksmen. Unless they are so weak that they cannot even kill a tank in any reasonable time, and therefore another champion could be a better choice, teams will pick them. And if Riot did make them that weak, then tanks and juggernauts would become overbearing because there would be nothing left to stop them. What does any of that have to do with increasing their item costs.
: I'd much rather prefer if they hold on the Mages nerf and nerf ADC and Mana together, so I don't have to sit- for who knows how long, with a mana, weakened mage (And yes, some mages will be mana weakened since not everyone builds lost chapter/mana first due to who they fight) while ADC stays the same. There'd be no uproar if they just did both at the same time, it'd take longer but then the current up in arms wouldn't exist. _On a side note, the new Varus is nutty._
> [{quoted}](name=ZeroAttribute,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tNcGpN5K,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2018-04-22T16:34:27.568+0000) > > I'd much rather prefer if they hold on the Mages nerf and nerf ADC and Mana together, so I don't have to sit- for who knows how long, with a mana, weakened mage (And yes, some mages will be mana weakened since not everyone builds lost chapter/mana first due to who they fight) while ADC stays the same. There'd be no uproar if they just did both at the same time, it'd take longer but then the current up in arms wouldn't exist. > > _On a side note, the new Varus is nutty._ I would as well if they still plan on going through with it i will just not play ranked until bot lane and jg nerfs and just may the game casually.
: I wouldn't be mad if mages actually dealt more damage with their skillshot, having the same range as adc. But no, it's not the case, you miss your skillshot and you're dead because the guy deals twice your damage by clicking on you. And when a burst mage is allowed to burst down people, he's insta-gutted. {{champion:134}} became a trollpick {{champion:142}} got nerfed to oblivion {{champion:7}} people are already bitching "omg she assassinated me let me right click she's isn't allowed" {{champion:268}} futur nerfs destroying the champion
> [{quoted}](name=Dead flag blues,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tNcGpN5K,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-22T15:36:17.244+0000) > > I wouldn't be mad if mages actually dealt more damage with their skillshot, having the same range as adc. But no, it's not the case, you miss your skillshot and you're dead because the guy deals twice your damage by clicking on you. > > And when a burst mage is allowed to burst down people, he's insta-gutted. > {{champion:134}} became a trollpick > {{champion:142}} got nerfed to oblivion > {{champion:7}} people are already bitching "omg she assassinated me let me right click she's isn't allowed" > {{champion:268}} futur nerfs destroying the champion I main Zoe she isn't that bad now to be honest(i'd say she is fairly good honestly). Most of the game's balance issues lie in the Jungle and bot lane. Supports are too strong, ADC items are too cheap, and Junglers have too much lane pressure early. As far as leblanc goes, the pre rework LB is probably what as Assassin should be. Yes she bursts ppl down but she can get bursted down just as easily and if you manage to land even 1 cc on her she is basically dead.
Felvyne (EUW)
: Maybe nerfing mana on mages isn't wrong.
The main premise of the change is what i don't like. They mainly want to do this change to bring Assassins back however even if Mages are weaker than Assassins, Mages will still be more useful in team fights so you are still going to see them dominating. Their targets simply get peeled too hard and are not as squishy as they used to be.
: Most people aren't really mad about the mana changes per say, they're just mad that Mages are getting hit before ADC's.
> [{quoted}](name=ZeroAttribute,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tNcGpN5K,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-22T13:40:44.611+0000) > > Most people aren't really mad about the mana changes per say, they're just mad that Mages are getting hit before ADC's. Basically this
Rioter Comments
Tomoe Gozen (EUNE)
: Yea, how fucking dare they respond only for a day in a thread before not responding anymore? It's not like they have something better to do, _**like their jobs**_, right? Instead, they should babysit us and, like Riot Support, be here 24/7 answering questions that were already answered because lazy people don't want to read through the thread with their responses. Get your shit together Riot.
> [{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J6iLNngT,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2018-04-22T12:03:06.094+0000) > > Yea, how fucking dare they respond only for a day in a thread before not responding anymore? It's not like they have something better to do, _**like their jobs**_, right? Instead, they should babysit us and, like Riot Support, be here 24/7 answering questions that were already answered because lazy people don't want to read through the thread with their responses. > > Get your shit together Riot. Well if i go to the Dev Corner knowing the ""Hot topics" and see none of them addressed then yea they still aren't communicating, they are just talking. No one still know the reasoning behind the changes and they have not created a sound argument for them except (LCS this and that).
: Your play does mean something. The meta is only _slightly_ worse for solo carrying than it was a couple seasons ago - people just blow it way out of proportion. The fact is that people have claimed that "my team drags me down" from the start of the game in season 1 - so it's not like theyll suddenly _stop_ complaining about it. Huge misconception: Having a high KDA/CS/Damage does not mean carrying the game. It's what you do with that damage/extra gold that matters. You could go 11/0 every game, and then die 3 times in a row at 25 minutes. Guess what? Your score will be 11/3 but you solo lost the game for your team. Or you could be 11/0 and not be grouped (not read the map properly to realize that the enemy team is collapsing on your team) and solo lose the game. Look at most Challenger/high elo players, they have bad KDAs - but thats because having a good KDA doesn't indicate you being good, but being good will result in a high KDA. PS: I wasn't even specifically talking about you, just boards in general.
> [{quoted}](name=Disembark,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J6iLNngT,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-20T19:58:03.908+0000) > > Your play does mean something. > > The meta is only _slightly_ worse for solo carrying than it was a couple seasons ago - people just blow it way out of proportion. The fact is that people have claimed that "my team drags me down" from the start of the game in season 1 - so it's not like theyll suddenly _stop_ complaining about it. > > Huge misconception: Having a high KDA/CS/Damage does not mean carrying the game. It's what you do with that damage/extra gold that matters. > > You could go 11/0 every game, and then die 3 times in a row at 25 minutes. Guess what? Your score will be 11/3 but you solo lost the game for your team. Or you could be 11/0 and not be grouped (not read the map properly to realize that the enemy team is collapsing on your team) and solo lose the game. > > Look at most Challenger/high elo players, they have bad KDAs - but thats because having a good KDA doesn't indicate you being good, but being good will result in a high KDA. > > PS: I wasn't even specifically talking about you, just boards in general. My play only matters if i do exceedingly bad(like say go 0/13). if i go 0/5 or 10/0 it doesn't matter because i cannot push objectives as AP, i need the ADC to both A. do well and B. know how to play ADC and take objectives.
: people look at almost everything with rose colored glasses honestly. "the good ole days" have never been today.
> [{quoted}](name=Professor Ward,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8YhW96QA,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-20T18:31:40.682+0000) > > people look at almost everything with rose colored glasses honestly. > > "the good ole days" have never been today. Well to be fair, look at the LCS today vs. the past and tell me which one was enjoyable to watch. Which version of Faker did you like the one who went for big plays or the one who farms mid?
: Supporting in solo Q is bad.
Actually support mains are doing quite well climbing in this meta its mid and top that are the hardest to climb as atm. As support you at least have some sort of control of how fed the enemy bot lane gets. i mean taking a look at your match history, you are losing games when you are ahead on other lanes but when it comes to support if you are doing well you seem to win almost everytime. In fact your highest win rates are on your supports and they are 60%+.
HarrowR (EUNE)
: The thing is ADCs are pretty equal in terms of strength in very early stages of the game,im talking pre 6,while you still have only Dorans ring/shield/blade,but after that,when you get your first item,especially as a fighter/bruiser/tank that gets {{item:3071}} {{item:3068}} you're so much stronger than an ADC that gets just an IE first item,because he can't still utilize it properly since he doesn't have enough AS and Crit to do it,so in your case,Jarvan top,at this point in the game,you should be at least 2 levels ahead of her,and have at least 500-600 hp more,not to mention you have a shield,a knock up,as steriod,armor penetration from both your Q and your item,and an ult that does a lot of damage to a squishy. At this point in the game,and i'd say at every other point from the on,you should be able to kill her 1v1 unless you miss most of your spells. And i don't think that you should auto deserve to win just cause your target is squishy,if you miss all your spells i think its kinda logical that then she has the upper hand,and that's kinda the way that it should be,cause no Tristana is surviving EQ auto R auto to her face,plus if you have something like Titanic,thats another chunk of her HP gone missing
> [{quoted}](name=HarrowR,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aglk4GVE,comment-id=000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-20T19:13:46.861+0000) > > The thing is ADCs are pretty equal in terms of strength in very early stages of the game,im talking pre 6,while you still have only Dorans ring/shield/blade,but after that,when you get your first item,especially as a fighter/bruiser/tank that gets {{item:3071}} {{item:3068}} you're so much stronger than an ADC that gets just an IE first item,because he can't still utilize it properly since he doesn't have enough AS and Crit to do it,so in your case,Jarvan top,at this point in the game,you should be at least 2 levels ahead of her,and have at least 500-600 hp more,not to mention you have a shield,a knock up,as steriod,armor penetration from both your Q and your item,and an ult that does a lot of damage to a squishy. At this point in the game,and i'd say at every other point from the on,you should be able to kill her 1v1 unless you miss most of your spells. > And i don't think that you should auto deserve to win just cause your target is squishy,if you miss all your spells i think its kinda logical that then she has the upper hand,and that's kinda the way that it should be,cause no Tristana is surviving EQ auto R auto to her face,plus if you have something like Titanic,thats another chunk of her HP gone missing Well top help put it in perspective for you i had a game where me mid had similar CS as the ADC but was 6/1 and they were 2/2 yet their build looked like :{{item:3006}} {{item:3031}} and mines {{item:3285}} {{item:3020}} . Why do they have the same amount of items that i do at that point when i clearly had more gold income.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 20
Since you decided to push out the mage changes before the bot and jungle ones i suppose mage mains should just not play the game from 8.9 until 8.11? That of course is on the assumption that you will not push it back from 8.11.
: Because the vast majority of people on boards don’t actually give a shit about “balance”. They just want their role/champion to be buffed.
> [{quoted}](name=Disembark,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J6iLNngT,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-04-20T19:32:15.187+0000) > > Because the vast majority of people on boards don’t actually give a shit about “balance”. They just want their role/champion to be buffed. I don't want to be buffed, i just want my play to mean something, right now it doesn't.
Eedat (NA)
: People should stop saying the Devs dont communicate with us if.....
The problem is they choose what they respond to if you go to the Dev Tracker you see they respond to things they agree with and not to things they do not. For example, a discussion about the Mage changes turned into Ziggs needs buffs. That gives the illusion of communicating without actually communicating.
: The reactions from Mage players are still ridiculous. They behave as if Riot was insulting them and making the changes just to piss them off. That's simply not the case, and there is a real problem here that Riot is trying to solve. You may disagree with their solution, you may argue that this issue is only a symptom of a bigger problem. But you can't deny there IS a problem, and it's not a bad thing to try and solve it. But all those high cries of "how you dare touch my mana pool when basic attacks still don't use mana" are simply ridiculous. Y'all act as if all Mages will lose 10% winrate just because of this change. Well, guess what, they won't. Not more than they did in 6.9, when Mana Regen was removed from all Mage Items in favor of Flat Mana, for the very same reason, to force them to back to base sometimes. And I remember when Morello was built out of Forbidden Idol, and trust me, Mage players complained just as much as today at that time. But Mages survived 6.9, and they'll survive 8.9 as well, because Riot's goal is NOT to kill them anyway.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurs7,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aglk4GVE,comment-id=003a,timestamp=2018-04-20T17:32:13.364+0000) > > The reactions from Mage players are still ridiculous. > > They behave as if Riot was insulting them and making the changes just to piss them off. That's simply not the case, and there is a real problem here that Riot is trying to solve. You may disagree with their solution, you may argue that this issue is only a symptom of a bigger problem. But you can't deny there IS a problem, and it's not a bad thing to try and solve it. > > But all those high cries of "how you dare touch my mana pool when basic attacks still don't use mana" are simply ridiculous. Y'all act as if all Mages will lose 10% winrate just because of this change. Well, guess what, they won't. Not more than they did in 6.9, when Mana Regen was removed from all Mage Items in favor of Flat Mana, for the very same reason, to force them to back to base sometimes. And I remember when Morello was built out of Forbidden Idol, and trust me, Mage players complained just as much as today at that time. > > But Mages survived 6.9, and they'll survive 8.9 as well, because Riot's goal is NOT to kill them anyway. "They behave as if Riot was insulting them" because it is an insult. Ever since they did their first Mage item update(which was basically just nerfing mage items and removing DFG), everytime theres an issue with the Meta, Mages are the first being looked at when a lot of things change, not mages. The problem with the meta has nothing to do with mages but they are forcing these changes before addressing others just to try and get assassins out there in the LCS(won't work). Bringing tanks back mid is more likely than getting Assassins back there before they keep dodging the Issue. As far as mages and mana goes, we currently need the mana because everything takes multiple shots now to do anything. They build 1 MR item and we cannot kill them. To make matters worse they have a ton of options to build against MR. I am all for making mana meaningful that should be accompanied by buffs to items direct power and after you fix bot lane and jungle.
: Buff yasuos caught out survivability vs all ins
xelaker (NA)
: The difference between win and loss feels is massive.
I do not feel satisfied from wins and i feel frustrated from losses.
: Yup. So nerfing their wave clear nerfs the 4 man bot fiesta. The mana nerfs also translate over to enchanters. Shiv is no longer instant wave clear. ADC's lost shiv bonus damage, these coming changes will cripple enchanters - allowing adcs to be killed again, and the 4 man bot dives for tower will dissipate because mages will have to play their lane now. After these changes, it won't take much for them to fix bot come midseason.
> [{quoted}](name=ßlended Fetus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aglk4GVE,comment-id=000400000001,timestamp=2018-04-20T07:15:49.148+0000) > > Yup. So nerfing their wave clear nerfs the 4 man bot fiesta. The mana nerfs also translate over to enchanters. Shiv is no longer instant wave clear. ADC's lost shiv bonus damage, these coming changes will cripple enchanters - allowing adcs to be killed again, and the 4 man bot dives for tower will dissipate because mages will have to play their lane now. After these changes, it won't take much for them to fix bot come midseason. Not really just mages will take teleport and still afk farm. Right now i currently run ignite because i know i have enough mana to farm and fight. if they take away that i am better off running teleport because farming minions is more reliable than trying to play for kills and you will have to choose between 1 or the other. Rather that is good or not is up for debate and not really what i am trying to argue about. What i am arguing about is that these changes are designed to push Mages out of the meta instead of fixing bot lane and making Assassins more viable. These changes are not going to help Assassins because Mages are not whats stopping them from being viable.
: Because between patch 8.10 to 8.11, marksmen, especially crit marksmen, will be getting a two patch series of changes on a much larger scale than mages? And from what Riot Axes said, replacing their two item powerspike with a more steady power curve, which would enable other classes to more viably play in botlane, reworking a number of marksman items, and also lowering the lategame damage output of crit marksmen so that while they still do significant damage, don't have as much damage per auto? And mana was recently overtuned in the first place, it used to be something that had to be managed properly. The mana nerfs overall are because of the increase in mana availability, which really shouldn't have been implemented the way it was.
> [{quoted}](name=ReshiKillim,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GwMydn83,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-04-19T17:15:56.303+0000) > > Because between patch 8.10 to 8.11, marksmen, especially crit marksmen, will be getting a two patch series of changes on a much larger scale than mages? > > And from what Riot Axes said, replacing their two item powerspike with a more steady power curve, which would enable other classes to more viably play in botlane, reworking a number of marksman items, and also lowering the lategame damage output of crit marksmen so that while they still do significant damage, don't have as much damage per auto? > > And mana was recently overtuned in the first place, it used to be something that had to be managed properly. The mana nerfs overall are because of the increase in mana availability, which really shouldn't have been implemented the way it was. So until those 2 patches drop we are just suppose to be completely useless? So if you play a mage just do not play for a month? that last time i did that 1 month turned into 5 or 6.
: Personal opinion: {{champion:142}} Yeah, yeah, she was just released. I think her kit is cancerous, that's all.
> [{quoted}](name=ZackTheWaffleMan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pcjxq4FT,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-19T22:22:14.957+0000) > > Personal opinion: {{champion:142}} > Yeah, yeah, she was just released. I think her kit is cancerous, that's all. ehh theres definitely more toxic mid laners. @OP i would prolly put Fiddlesticks as highest S tier with morde simply because they havent done a large scale rework of a mage in a while people are finding it difficult to find his effective lanes/job. Morde's biggest problem is it seems like the devs do not know how they want to design him.
Eedat (NA)
: Its also half the length of the other lanes and filled to the brim with champs that use ranged waveclear. Have you ever jungled? Top is a long lane willed with melees which are a free kill when someone inevitably over extends Bot is a long lane that has supports who are exteptionally good at setting up ganks in a lot of cases Mid is WAY harder to gank. Its rare to see midlaners more than 2-3 seconds from their tower
> [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aglk4GVE,comment-id=000d00000000,timestamp=2018-04-20T13:49:10.995+0000) > > Its also half the length of the other lanes and filled to the brim with champs that use ranged waveclear. > > Have you ever jungled? > > Top is a long lane willed with melees which are a free kill when someone inevitably over extends > > Bot is a long lane that has supports who are exteptionally good at setting up ganks in a lot of cases > > Mid is WAY harder to gank. Its rare to see midlaners more than 2-3 seconds from their tower We hug our turrets because junglers have too much pressure there, they are almost never actually in the jungle anymore.
: The ADC with the 1 item isn't going to do a whole lot unless he's way fed and got there way early. Assuming neither the ADC and Mage is fed and both are even with laners... at 1 item the Mage has far more contribution to the team for the next 10 mins. I play both Mages and ADCs and I'd take the unfed Mage with the Luddens over the ADC with the single Crit item any day. With your range, EXP advantage, and AOE damage capability you do so much more. From my experience unless fed, the ADCs not going to have ground-breaking impact until 2-3 items. A mage and assassin can hit the game immediately at 1 item and start making super big plays.
> [{quoted}](name=Lannister Gold ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=chuiENxm,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-04-20T13:40:36.811+0000) > > The ADC with the 1 item isn't going to do a whole lot unless he's way fed and got there way early. > > Assuming neither the ADC and Mage is fed and both are even with laners... at 1 item the Mage has far more contribution to the team for the next 10 mins. > > I play both Mages and ADCs and I'd take the unfed Mage with the Luddens over the ADC with the single Crit item any day. > > With your range, EXP advantage, and AOE damage capability you do so much more. > > From my experience unless fed, the ADCs not going to have ground-breaking impact until 2-3 items. A mage and assassin can hit the game immediately at 1 item and start making super big plays. The Mid and top are not going to do much with just 1 item. The problem comes with how fast you get that 1 item before anyone else. That is what is known as a spike. Furthermore what makes you think once they reach that spike they will suddenly get the second item before the people that were behind them will. When people say bot is the problem they mean exactly that, they are getting their items too fast and that situation gets compounded when there are too people down there to feed the ADC kills instead of 1 like solo lanes.
: mages must buy {{item:3089}} in the same way that ADCs must buy {{item:3031}}; the fact that Deathcap is more expensive is balanced by the fact that mages have way more range than ADCs and in the first 15+ mins of the game can defeat ADCs 1 vs 1 through level advantage alone unless the ADC is fed as hell. {{item:3003}} is not the only viable AP item, some mages build {{item:3285}} As for mage itemisation, its not any more or less restricted than ADCs. Each mage has a "meta" more or less fixed build path with slight adjustments depending on the matchup and team comps... just as each ADC has the same. There's one meta build for Vayne and Tristana in the same way that there is one for Viktor, Ziggs etc. I don't see how mage itemisation is particularly poorly designed. You have to remember that despite the hype of ADCs hard carrying, the truth is that for the first 20 mins of most games, the mid laner (whether mid or assassin) if he's even or ahead in lane can 1 vs 1 and murderstomp the ADC without the help of his team through EXP advantage alone.
> [{quoted}](name=Lannister Gold ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=chuiENxm,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-04-20T05:01:30.057+0000) > > mages must buy {{item:3089}} in the same way that ADCs must buy {{item:3031}}; the fact that Deathcap is more expensive is balanced by the fact that mages have way more range than ADCs and in the first 15+ mins of the game can defeat ADCs 1 vs 1 through level advantage alone unless the ADC is fed as hell. > > {{item:3003}} is not the only viable AP item, some mages build {{item:3285}} > > As for mage itemisation, its not any more or less restricted than ADCs. Each mage has a "meta" more or less fixed build path with slight adjustments depending on the matchup and team comps... just as each ADC has the same. > > There's one meta build for Vayne and Tristana in the same way that there is one for Viktor, Ziggs etc. I don't see how mage itemisation is particularly poorly designed. > > You have to remember that despite the hype of ADCs hard carrying, the truth is that for the first 20 mins of most games, the mid laner (whether mid or assassin) if he's even or ahead in lane can 1 vs 1 and murderstomp the ADC without the help of his team through EXP advantage alone. Mages have more range then ADCs. uh it is based HIGHLY on the mage and the adc, they are the most equal in that regard but thats it. As far as what people are talking about when we mean power spike we mean the cost of say {{item:3087}} and {{item:3285}} .
: ADCs are fine
> [{quoted}](name=Lannister Gold ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=chuiENxm,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-20T03:25:30.040+0000) > > Many calls for ADCs to be "fixed" are based on blatant falsehoods. For instance, the following notions are completely wrong/misleading: > > 1. **ADCs deal 80% of the team's damage** (in fact, in a large proportion of games, Mid deals the most damage and in nearly all games, any other 3 roles added together surpass the ADC's damage) > 2. **ADCs are mana-less sustained burst damage dealers** (in fact, this is not the case by default, unless massively fed, they are DPS champs who rely on the front line to set up plays and appropriate peel and positioning by team mates) > 3. **ADCs right click to win **(in fact, this is a gross oversimplification of the positional complexity, mechanical skill and game knowledge needed to actually play the role well consistently) > 4. **ADCs have an extremely cheap build that immediately allows them to massively power spike even when not snowballing** (this is actually not the case, ADCs do not power spike to "god mode" at 1 or 2 items, in fact, the vast majority of ADCs like Jinx, Tristana, and Vayne in fact now require three items before hitting that hyper carry phase. For the ADCs that hit their spikes earlier, such as Jhin or Ashe, they fairly fall off relative to other hypercarries later) > 5. **The better bot lane wins the game** (the truth is that this is true half the time and false half the other time, mid in fact deals the most damage in enough games that statistically speaking, a stomping bot lane doesn't guarantee the win condition) > 6. **ADCs are mana-less burst mages/mana-less assassins** (This is a blatant falsehood. The comparisons are hyperbole to the max but suffice to say, ADCs do not have the range or utility to be compared to mages and they don't have the mobility to be compared to assassins; plus they are not burst by default, only if fed through appropriate teamwork and coordination) > > Since the calls for ADCs to be fixed are based on so many misleading statements; I think I'm leaning towards them being fine in this meta They arent based on those they are based on real stuff like how fast they spike due to how cheap their items are compared to other laners. That is indeed a fact. I notice your counter arguement about them spiking. It seems that you are confused when people say spike. They do not mean they reach their strongest point. They mean they are outscaling everyone else early because their first item is cheaper than everyone elses. Theres a difference. Furthermore you getting your first three items is much quicker than everyone else getting theirs. Not to mention as soon as u win your tane you are taking cs from most lanes and snowballing even harder.
: Playing reverted lb made me realize
Well i guess its more easy to blame mages then to Blame Riot for their horrible job with the Assassin Rework i guess.
: Is it selfish to just ban a champ you hate rather than what's meta?
I find that anyone who tries to tell you who to ban are typically bad anyways and will be bad regardless of who you ban.
: > [{quoted}](name=Akrid415,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xzw4ubt7,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-04-20T05:38:54.127+0000) > > Yeah but with who? {{champion:115}} gets stomped by her, {{champion:25}} Q is slow as molasses and gets bursted as well, {{champion:238}} {{champion:91}} get bursted, {{champion:45}} gets smashed too. Those are my core mid laners. Maybe I'm playing wrong or something, but I tried shoving as Zed and she just proceeded to insta-burst me. I couldn't even flash or W before she deleted me. I was dumbfounded on how the hell I was supposed to counter that. The annoying part was she wasn't even that good of a player mechanically. If you can't counter Leblanc with morgana which is her hardest counter. Nothing can save you.
Well you still need to land that Q on her and if you do not know LB's kit thats gonna be pretty hard.
Akrid415 (NA)
: How the hell do you counter Leblanc?
Well knowing her kit helps a lot, reaction time develops by know what she is trying to do. Learn her kit if you are unable to deal with her otherwise. Lanning wise i do not have a problem with her, she is actually extremely squishy.
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Malix Farwin

Level 107 (NA)
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