: To be clear about forced Arbitration.
Forced arbitration is anti employee no matter how you put it. Arbitrators far more often are in favor of the employer than employee by an obscene amount.
: > [{quoted}](name=Malza,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=K74E03zJ,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-26T18:21:53.818+0000) > > You mean like how you used to buy a disc at gamestop or wherever but really find out you needed to download steam to even play back when nobody knew about it because Valve convinced 3rd party publishers to launch on Steam (and you could bet they didn't do the same standard 30% cut for everyone back then). All this while being a WIP program. > > Steam only has its refund policy because it is required by EU law, not because they are good guys. > > As if steam doesn't also have major issues with uplay > > As if steam doesn't also check shit on your computer through VAC and whatever else. Ex: VAC scans your internet history. So we know epic does it and the counter argument it that steam PROBABLY does it too? Lmao
> [{quoted}](name=Timethief49,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=K74E03zJ,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-26T19:12:41.068+0000) > > So we know epic does it and the counter argument it that steam PROBABLY does it too? Lmao Probably? Did. That's why steams big. Valve growing steam by seeking out game publishers to launch on steam (as well as their own games on steam) is how Steam became common place. Uplay is a Uplay problem not a Epic problem, people have complained about Uplay issues with Steam since Uplay existed. Valve is confirmed to have only given those refunds because of EU law, just as it is confirmed that VAC is just invasive as anything Epic does.
: > [{quoted}](name=Malza,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=K74E03zJ,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-04-26T07:57:55.953+0000) > > Pretty much every criticism given to epic games currently was very commonly given to Valve for trying to force Steam to be a thing when that all started up. > > No fair when Sweeney does it though only Gabens allowed to unnecessarily push games onto an online storefront in an attempt to popularize their launcher with no benefit to the consumer. > > At least when Sweeney does it the games are still playable, unlike the pile of trash Steam was in comparison when Valve started forcing people to use it. > > Also, they aren’t shady. The Problem isnt pushing Games on a online platform. The problem is games beeing marketed on other retail platforms and then turning into Epic exclusives after gathering all the publicity. All this while beeing a WIP program. The Problem is a shitty refund policy. The Problem is when you Download a game on uplay and then have to download the whole Game again when you start it on the epic Launcher (Anno 1800). The Problem is when the epic Client makes a Copy of your steam files without asking the User about it.
> [{quoted}](name=Timethief49,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=K74E03zJ,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-04-26T08:58:34.881+0000) > > The Problem isnt pushing Games on a online platform. > The problem is games beeing marketed on other retail platforms and then turning into Epic exclusives after gathering all the publicity. All this while beeing a WIP program. You mean like how you used to buy a disc at gamestop or wherever but really find out you needed to download steam to even play back when nobody knew about it because Valve convinced 3rd party publishers to launch on Steam (and you could bet they didn't do the same standard 30% cut for everyone back then). All this while being a WIP program. > The Problem is a shitty refund policy. Steam only has its refund policy because it is required by EU law, not because they are good guys. > The Problem is when you Download a game on uplay and then have to download the whole Game again when you start it on the epic Launcher (Anno 1800). As if steam doesn't also have major issues with uplay > The Problem is when the epic Client makes a Copy of your steam files without asking the User about it. As if steam doesn't also check shit on your computer through VAC and whatever else. Ex: VAC scans your internet history.
: Epic tries to make it sound like its adding competition but it isn't. What reason does a consumer have to use their store over steam besides forced and unnecessary exclusives? I remember one of the biggest reasons they stated was that "the developers can pass the savings onto the consumer." Never happened, still charging full price.
> [{quoted}](name=TwinkiePro,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=K74E03zJ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-26T07:42:34.321+0000) > > Epic tries to make it sound like its adding competition but it isn't. What reason does a consumer have to use their store over steam besides forced and unnecessary exclusives? I remember one of the biggest reasons they stated was that "the developers can pass the savings onto the consumer." Never happened, still charging full price. The only big difference between the way Steam got big and Epic’s strategy is that other launchers already exist now. Valve didn’t only push their own games as exclusive on steam, but also convinced many game publishers to publish on steam when it was not in anyway the norm.
: They try to sound Like the good guys while beeing assholes. Yeah they give Higher shares, but they are shady as fuck and have a worse client.
> [{quoted}](name=Timethief49,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=K74E03zJ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-04-26T07:46:45.883+0000) > > They try to sound Like the good guys while beeing assholes. Yeah they give Higher shares, but they are shady as fuck and have a worse client. Pretty much every criticism given to epic games currently was very commonly given to Valve for trying to force Steam to be a thing when that all started up. No fair when Sweeney does it though only Gabens allowed to unnecessarily push games onto an online storefront in an attempt to popularize their launcher with no benefit to the consumer. At least when Sweeney does it the games are still playable, unlike the pile of trash Steam was in comparison when Valve started forcing people to use it. Also, they aren’t shady.
: You really shouldn't be able to upvote or downvote without posting.
: PSA: A bunch of people got Blood Moon Capsules for free. They are going unpunished.
Yeah cause buying capsules which riot priced incorrectly is obviously the equivalent of robbing a bank. It's pretty pathetic than any of you are so upset at others good fortune that you care about something like this.
: Fiora : fun but weak
Fiora has favorable matchups vs virtually everything and hypercarry potential.
Rexxiee (NA)
: Its time to make crit adcs viable in other roles too
Crit adcs aren't played because current itemization balance favors adcs like Lucian/Ezreal. It's nothing to do with mages.
Weensw (NA)
: @junglers: what's the most ungreatful thing laner told you after a success gank?
'Please, why did you take all three waves I'm only level four and now you set up a freeze for him!" lol so ungrateful
Mc Raton (NA)
: So delete every mage including malz right?
> [{quoted}](name=Mc Raton,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=71FqFmB0,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-02T14:29:22.499+0000) > > So delete every mage including malz right? Sure
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Malza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BQVgffKW,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-12-24T11:53:31.495+0000) > > Riven is not the hardest top laner in LoL, also being hard doesn’t always necessitate a lower winrate. > > Riven has pretty much the highest proportion of its playerbase as OTPs out of any champ, which honestly boosts her winrate more than being hard lowers it. A champion like Riven should be balanced around being an OTP. No matter how hard it is, some things just shouldn't be possible to do. This is why people hate {{champion:157}}
> [{quoted}](name=Sandsexual,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BQVgffKW,comment-id=00090001,timestamp=2018-12-24T20:27:06.758+0000) > > A champion like Riven should be balanced around being an OTP. No matter how hard it is, some things just shouldn't be possible to do. This is why people hate {{champion:157}} Yeah, and rivens not really very OP at all. Compared to an extremely skilled akali/irelia/camille/etc she is nothing to deal with.
: the hardest top laner in LOL has 51.5% winrate and #1 pickrate by double the next champion
Riven is not the hardest top laner in LoL, also being hard doesn’t always necessitate a lower winrate. Riven has pretty much the highest proportion of its playerbase as OTPs out of any champ, which honestly boosts her winrate more than being hard lowers it.
: We're going full circle
Riot shouldn't buff adcs unless they actually aren't picked anymore.
: Nope gonna pick what i am familiar with.
> [{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BIvYvs2f,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-23T09:42:46.714+0000) > > Nope gonna pick what i am familiar with. Yes, picking easy champions is for when you don't have one you are familiar with to play.
Juice (EUNE)
: As I've stated before, higher elo players tend to gravitate towards something that's not really mind-numbing boring and gives them an opportunity to express their skill rather than repeat the same patterns over and over again regardless of match-up and the game that's being played, same reason you won't see Nasus in high elo
> [{quoted}](name=Juice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BIvYvs2f,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-23T07:59:35.941+0000) > > As I've stated before, higher elo players tend to gravitate towards something that's not really mind-numbing boring and gives them an opportunity to express their skill rather than repeat the same patterns over and over again regardless of match-up and the game that's being played, same reason you won't see Nasus in high elo High elo players gravitate towards whatever is strongest and gives them the best chance to win regardless of how fun it is. You are thinking of low elo players, who gravitate towards "high skill" champs like yasuo, riven, and fizz.
Juice (EUNE)
: Singed's selfish playstyle doesn't work in a competitive environment, that doesn't mean he isn't broken in solo queue as evident by his ridiculously high win rate by the people who main him
> [{quoted}](name=Juice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BIvYvs2f,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-23T07:46:13.142+0000) > > Singed's selfish playstyle doesn't work in a competitive environment, that doesn't mean he isn't broken in solo queue as evident by his ridiculously high win rate by the people who main him Singeds current winrate by people who main him is only 53%, which is lower than irelia (55%), renekton (57%), Akali (57.65%), or pantheon (57%). Source: Lolalytics. The winrate on the chart is his winrate over two years, almost all of which he was much stronger than now. Singeds playstyle is weaker in higher level play in general, as evidenced by the number of singed mains in high elo (almost none).
Juice (EUNE)
: Nobody wants to play Singed because he's just boring & turbo easy
> [{quoted}](name=Juice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BIvYvs2f,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-23T07:20:46.128+0000) > > Nobody wants to play Singed because he's just boring & turbo easy Yeah they just have an agreement to not pick Singed in the LCS or ever play him in high elo because winning is too boring. All of the thousands of masters+ players decided in unison to just stop playing him after his nerfs not because hes weak, but because they hate winning.
: > [{quoted}](name=Malza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BIvYvs2f,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-12-23T06:57:31.839+0000) > > No, because singed has more counterplay than every other champion on this list making him inherently weaker in high elo. You hate the reality that you will likely drop to mid diamond if singed got balanced.
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BIvYvs2f,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-12-23T07:01:30.506+0000) > > You hate the reality that you will likely drop to mid diamond if singed got balanced. There's literally one Singed player who's currently higher rank than me in any of NA/EUW/KR (at the time of this post) and he's a Korean pro support player who doesn't play Singed most of his games. http://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=lehends You have to realize that winrate data (on the chart) mainly includes times before Singed was nerfed meaning the data would look a bit different now with lower starting winrate and lower ending WR. Unless you're saying only one singed player in the world (lehends) deserves to be masters+?
: This data shows singed is over powered for a "high skill cap" champ and is deserving of nerfs. Starting at a 43.2% and ending at a 57.% while the rest start around 39% and end around a 53.5%
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BIvYvs2f,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-23T06:53:07.417+0000) > > This data shows singed is over powered for a "high skill cap" champ and is deserving of nerfs. > > Starting at a 43.2% and ending at a 57.% while the rest start around 39% and end around a 53.5% No, because singed has more counterplay than every other champion on this list making him inherently weaker in high elo.
Rioter Comments
: itt: a slew of silvers and golds who actually have no idea what proper balance and gameplay looks like, so they bleed any time a champion they don't like is mentioned for anything other than a nerf :^). Stay classy, league boards.
> [{quoted}](name=Anghellous,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A99Ffqh3,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-12-22T14:19:41.886+0000) > > itt: a slew of silvers and golds who actually have no idea what proper balance and gameplay looks like, so they bleed any time a champion they don't like is mentioned for anything other than a nerf :^). > > Stay classy, league boards. Removing counter building / counterplay options is never a good thing. This would also be a pretty major buff to shaco in general, not just AP shaco as in high elo where people actually use red trinket this would save shaco from dying often.
F33DORA (NA)
: Fiora is still ruined from the rework
Yes bring it back so we can have fiora be useless instead of obscenely broken please
: Oracle's Alteration Should Not Activate Boxes.
I don't want to play vs shaco top lane, bad thread.
Rock MD (NA)
: League is still a strategy game, it's just nobody wants to use strategy
: Would you be opposed to a rule only allowing civil discussions?
Enforcing this rule more strictly would encourage people to participate in bad faith (ex: Argue literally every point nomatter what) to illicit reactions out of people.
: if anything, garen needs a buff to his e.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jQIoTVLw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-22T02:35:03.683+0000) > > if anything, garen needs a buff to his e. Revert garen Q nerf
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Malza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7H0BJgZB,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2018-12-21T09:04:25.013+0000) > > Sorry, but SInged is statistically proven to be a harder champ than Irelia. > > https://twitter.com/RiotBlaustoise/status/1075515580570980352 > > https://twitter.com/RiotBlaustoise/status/1075515584882724864 > > I made that post before seeing those, and it was more of a joke but also pretty known that Singed has a high skill cap as Scarizard said 2 years ago (when Singed used to have the highest mastery curve in the entire game) > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaVOLzEGW5o&t=43m Clearly singed is also over powered and should be as nerfed as akali based on the graphs. His uninteractive play style should be a good starting point as it is not like other champs in the game. Or is singed alright breaking general rules of the game just because you play him?
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7H0BJgZB,comment-id=0000000200000000,timestamp=2018-12-21T16:10:03.205+0000) > > Clearly singed is also over powered and should be as nerfed as akali based on the graphs. His uninteractive play style should be a good starting point as it is not like other champs in the game. Or is singed alright breaking general rules of the game just because you play him? Akali is still a stronger champ in high elo than Singed after the recent Singed buffs, maybe we should nerf Akali some more?
: > [{quoted}](name=Malza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7H0BJgZB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-19T21:35:06.690+0000) > > Highest is Singed. > > Tied for second: Everyone else He plays singed so it must be true /s
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7H0BJgZB,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2018-12-21T07:53:21.731+0000) > > He plays singed so it must be true /s Sorry, but SInged is statistically proven to be a harder champ than Irelia. https://twitter.com/RiotBlaustoise/status/1075515580570980352 https://twitter.com/RiotBlaustoise/status/1075515584882724864 I made that post before seeing those, and it was more of a joke but also pretty known that Singed has a high skill cap as Scarizard said 2 years ago (when Singed used to have the highest mastery curve in the entire game) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaVOLzEGW5o&t=43m
: riot u need to revert the +100 minion MS at 25 min, 423 movement speed on minions is absurd
: What is, in your opinion, the worst designed champion in this game?
Most of Riots recent champion releases and reworks.
: I know this is such an unpopular opinion but im tired of high elo players in normal low elo games
Madsin25 (NA)
: https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champions/ Click on the yellow "delta". Click once to see the champs that take the highest skill and click twice to see lowest. (not official rankings but gives you the best idea, and just ignore sejuani and trundle as their play rates are way to low to include them)
> [{quoted}](name=Madsin25,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7H0BJgZB,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-12-20T02:13:58.839+0000) > > https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champions/ > > Click on the yellow "delta". Click once to see the champs that take the highest skill and click twice to see lowest. > > (not official rankings but gives you the best idea, and just ignore sejuani and trundle as their play rates are way to low to include them) Contradicts Riot's data they gave today as well as multiple times in the past.
: Is there a full list of skill caps on every champ ranking them 1-141?
Highest is Singed. Tied for second: Everyone else
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Jinzo IRL,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jkA2xGKJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-19T06:46:06.525+0000) > > __ Thanks hashinshin I’m going to go back to range poking by walking on top of everyone.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: Why don't you go tell that to all the people making tier lists, Shaco's been at the top for a hella long time. https://mobalytics.gg/blog/category/tier-list/ There's one of those, you can check the patches yourself. For 1 patch he's A tier in low elo S in high, for 3 he's A in both and everywhere else he's S tier. I don't deny your knowledge as a Shaco main, but something a off here. Be it his items or him directly, you can see in the OP that he has the best stats of all assassins, and iirc, 5% pr is considered very healthy by the boards.
> [{quoted}](name=Rylalei,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eA5efksR,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2018-12-18T16:36:09.519+0000) > > Why don't you go tell that to all the people making tier lists, Shaco's been at the top for a hella long time. > > https://mobalytics.gg/blog/category/tier-list/ > The people making tier lists besides LS don’t know anything and are mainly hardstuck plat / low diamond players. Most tier lists are extremely low effort for clicks and basically do what you’re doing (aggregating data).
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Malza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=doMLunGt,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-12-18T20:26:00.766+0000) > > Singed has literally never been a bad lane for irelia according to players like Irelia Carries U > > Funny that you complain about an actual outplay mechanic like input buffering when something that Akali does 100% out of her own control through random luck often due to players high ping is removed. Who said anything about it being a bad lane. More a case of just deserts
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=doMLunGt,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-18T20:30:00.148+0000) > > Who said anything about it being a bad lane. > > More a case of just deserts What you complained about is a consistent gameplay mechanic across all champions with a targeted ability in their kit or decides to take targeted summoner spells such as ignite, and isn't about Singed in anyway. Akalis interaction with targeted abilities is NOT a consistent gameplay mechanic amongst all stealth champions.
: > [{quoted}](name=Malza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=doMLunGt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-18T10:17:18.250+0000) > > Yeah, before singed fling would always get cancelled when laning vs an Akali. It should make the lane a lot easier. Irony of you getting screwed by it not going off just like Irelia's old stun never stopping singed fling. I have no sympathy for your suffering in this situation.
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=doMLunGt,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-12-18T17:32:25.456+0000) > > Irony of you getting screwed by it not going off just like Irelia's old stun never stopping singed fling. > > I have no sympathy for your suffering in this situation. Singed has literally never been a bad lane for irelia according to players like Irelia Carries U Funny that you complain about an actual outplay mechanic like input buffering when something that Akali does 100% out of her own control through random luck often due to players high ping is removed.
Dr Dog (NA)
: aatrox? urgot? sion? viktor? there are plenty of top laners that dont go tiamat and are VERY meta, just because jax and irelia are broken and riot keeps refusing to address them at their actual problems doesnt mean people like renekton, fiora, talon, tryndamere and EVERY TIAMAT RELIANT JGER need an indirect nerf, there are few abusers but thats not the items problem its the champions
> [{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YOE43LIF,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-12-18T14:51:56.985+0000) > > aatrox? urgot? sion? viktor? there are plenty of top laners that dont go tiamat and are VERY meta, just because jax and irelia are broken and riot keeps refusing to address them at their actual problems doesnt mean people like renekton, fiora, talon, tryndamere and EVERY TIAMAT RELIANT JGER need an indirect nerf, there are few abusers but thats not the items problem its the champions Viktor was gutted, aatrox is often mid lane atm (but still is meta top), sion/urgot exist but are relatively low play rate for literally never being banned.
Juice (EUNE)
: I know it isn't, but also saying tiamat pushed every non-tiamat user into unviability without any proof of your claim (and despite the evidence we have showing otherwise) does not tell the truth. I'm not saying Singed is viable or not, he's just so braindead you need to know very little about the game, match-ups, trading, farming, wave management and anything that's actually game-related to do well with him. 1-2% win rate drop is actually a big deal considering some of them were weak to begin with and DID NOT deserve this nerf
> [{quoted}](name=Juice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YOE43LIF,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2018-12-18T14:02:12.027+0000) > > 1-2% win rate drop is actually a big deal considering some of them were weak to begin with and DID NOT deserve this nerf There are hardly any tiamat users that were legitimately weak and not masters/challenger viable (even if on the lower end of it). That list pretty much boils down to trundle and maybe tryndamere. > I'm not saying Singed is viable or not, he's just so braindead you need to know very little about the game, match-ups, trading, farming, wave management and anything that's actually game-related to do well with him. Maybe if you had ever played Singed more than a few times you'd realize how ridiculous all of that is. You can dislike a champion for having point and click abilities, but point and click abilities and being kiteable cause the opposite of what you say. Singed is much more reliant on good match-up knowledge, wave management, macro, trading, etc in general than any skillshot champion. Anyone who plays irelia knows that if she hits E on someone she can basically automatically out trade or kill them, but you legitimately have to think about when to trade as singed.
: what are you even saying? tiamat isnt even an item you always rush because it can mess up lane managment (exceptions being tryn and renekton). the stats are nothing special for its cost and you only buy it for waveclear. also the vast majority of top laners dont need tiamat including but not limited to: any ap toplaner, any ranged top laner, any tank except shen, most juggernauts, singed etc
> [{quoted}](name=birdanarchy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YOE43LIF,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-12-18T13:38:11.114+0000) > >also the vast majority of top laners dont need tiamat including but not limited to: any ap toplaner, any ranged top laner, any tank except shen, most juggernauts, singed etc The vast majority of these top laners were not viable before 8.24b in high elo as tiamat users have been crowding them out. There are exceptions such as Sion/Lissandra/Urgot, but that's really not very many when they aren't very commonly picked.
Juice (EUNE)
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Juice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YOE43LIF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-18T13:14:18.675+0000) > > _<Removed>_ Going on champion.gg (or any stats website) and sorting by playrate / winrate does NOT tell you the top 20 champions. Singed hasn't been viable for a long time (due to item/rune nerfs that had lowered his winrate by 6%+ over the last few months), that's why he received a pretty major buff in 8.24b today. Tiamat users mainly are not going to see more than maybe a 1-2% WR drop, besides maybe certain junglers. It's not exactly something that needs to be compensated for the vast majority of them.
Rylalei (EUNE)
: Let's Talk: "I'm high tier and best assassin for 10+ patches in both low and high elo" Aka Shaco
> [{quoted}](name=Rylalei,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eA5efksR,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-12-18T12:41:15.339+0000) > > Shaco main discovered. > > I did state all the stats, not just winrates. He has the best winrate, best KDA, 3rd highest KP and has been S tier or A+ for who knows how long. > > That&#x27;s not &quot;you&#x27;re looking at winrates in a vacuum&quot; > > Also, a garbage &quot;champ&quot; shouldn&#x27;t have the highest stats in class in Diamond. The "Best assassin for 10+ patches" wouldn't have only a couple of people in high elo who play him. There is one challenger shaco player in NA, two low masters (near 0 LP) shaco players in EUW, and one low masters (near 0 LP) shaco player in Korea. That's four notable high elo shaco mains across three regions in total out of the 2,500+ players in masters+ for the regions. That's extremely far from "S tier in high elo".
Rioter Comments
Rylalei (EUNE)
: Let's Talk: "I'm high tier and best assassin for 10+ patches in both low and high elo" Aka Shaco
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: Akali's win rate decreased to 41% on first day
Yeah, before singed fling would always get cancelled when laning vs an Akali. It should make the lane a lot easier.
: > [{quoted}](name=Malza,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HsjEuAEs,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2018-12-18T05:17:54.294+0000) > > First, that&#x27;s not what irony means. > > Also, Akali has been proven to be high challenger viable for the entire duration of her rework, she has never been in a bad spot. Akali is pretty much picked every single game that she isn&#x27;t banned in high elo (at least up until 8.24b). > > The only reason there aren&#x27;t even more akali mains in high elo is because the high elo community thinks shes so overpowered that she&#x27;s banned nearly every game so the Akali mains can&#x27;t abuse her to climb. You mean the highly volatile less than 1000 game sample size for master+ where she is averaging around a 47% win rate? If we are going based on master+ as the means of justifying if a champ is balanced where are the Lucian, Kha'zix, Kai'sa, Thresh, Lissandra, Camille, and Lee Sin nerfs? All are really commonly played, have a high win rate and many of them have a high ban rate.
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HsjEuAEs,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-18T05:32:08.676+0000) > > You mean the highly volatile less than 1000 game sample size for master+ where she is averaging around a 47% win rate? If we are going based on master+ as the means of justifying if a champ is balanced where are the Lucian, Kha&#x27;zix, Kai&#x27;sa, Thresh, Lissandra, Camille, and Lee Sin nerfs? All are really commonly played, have a high win rate and many of them have a high ban rate. It's not about win rates, play rates / ban rates are massively more important at high level of play. Akalis win rate will still be dragged down by people who don't know how to play her at all elos since people will pick her when she's open even if they've never played her a single game. The fact just is when Akalis ban rates are low we consistently see Akali mains blazing off to freelo in high challenger (Like TF Blade last season) and that means that the champ is strong and viable regardless of winrate. You can NOT get to high challenger exclusively champions that are terrible (or even too far below average for that matter), it's just not actually possible. Not going to argue about other champs, some of those champs are definitely very strong and a couple you listed probably should also be nerfed. My point is just that a low winrate only matters for low elo games. If you're silver and losing to Akali, yeah that's probably your fault. But don't blame the pros and high elo players for losing to Akali.
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Malza

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