: > [{quoted}](name=Marshbouy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uZA1Zt4q,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-06-23T19:59:01.389+0000) > > that's not how the math works. It's just 12% % damage reduction stacks multiplicative, doesnt it?
: PSA: if i ping MIA and you don't back..
bonus points if you careful ping them.
: {{item:3046}} + {{item:3812}} + {{item:3109}} (1 - 0.12) x (1 - 0.3) x (1 - 0.12) = 0.542 basically 46% damage reduction. now i know, that deaths dance isnt entirely damage reduction, but damage delay. but with all the health sustain from lifesteal and the shields they get, it makes little difference as their main threat used to be burst damage. in sustained damage races theyre going to win anyway. then there is also {{summoner:7}} {{item:3026}} i dont exactly know what riots plans here are, but it looks like they just want to turn marksmen into ranged bruisers with full carry damage.
>(1 - 0.12) x (1 - 0.3) x (1 - 0.12) = 0.542 >basically 46% damage reduction. that's not how the math works. It's just 12%
: sion is balanced around a shitty passive
What's stopping riot from buffing other parts of his kit that aren't his passive? What is this post?
: If ADCs are so overpowered
I don't think OP is saying "ADCs are at a fine spot right now and probably could use buffs. I think OP is stating "if they can do what you claim they can do, why aren't they being played in other roles?"
Rioter Comments
: Wrong. It should be filled with "NERF YASUOOOOO" threads.
Maybe 2 days ago. right now the strength of ADCs and tanks is the hot button issue.
: I have yet to see those comments lol, but maybe you're here more than me
: Cause apparently they are OP as shit draintanking entire teams, killing tanks in .2 seconds and rightclicking their way to elos. This aint really much of a post and more poking at the adc hate bandwagon.
downvoted but people actually claim this shit
Rioter Comments
: doesn't matter if it's an entire class or some champs, the result is the same they won't plague other roles, you think that if the skirmisher class got buffed you will see one mid and one top, and one in the jungle? no, because most of them cannot be played mid since they need to roam and apply pressure on the map, they also can't jungle because their ganking potential sucks the adc role is overpowered atm, and that's partially due to items
That argument doesn't work either. When ADCs were reworked in preseason 6 they were being played everywhere, top, mid, jungle, and of course, bot (not counting MF support because FFS people that was a **counterpick** not a fucking meta pick).
: but then the tactics one would virtually be empty lol
Not it wouldn't. I see guides on how to play champions/asking how to do something pretty often on the boards, but they get completely swamped by gameplay discussion/feedback.
: I think "Gameplay" should be split into "Gameplay Feedback" and "Gameplay Tactics"
Pretty good idea. There is a huge difference between "this is a sion build/strategy" and "I am going to rant about how broken draven is for 3 paragraphs". I don't see how they belong on the same board.
: > [{quoted}](name=Marshbouy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bApQsEWb,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-23T19:04:05.332+0000) > > Because the biggest reason why ADCs are so powerful right now is the support behind them. > {{item:3109}} {{item:3107}} {{item:3504}} {{item:3190}} give ADCs tons of healing, shields, damage reduction, and buffs overall. i mean, its also because they buffed the shit out of adc itemization, nerfed defensive itemization and gave them even more burst resistance like rework {{item:3026}} and {{item:3812}} there are many factors besides support items coming together.
>Because the biggest reason biggest, not the only. the buffs to AD items contributed a lot.
Rioter Comments
: it's easier to protect one ADC than it is to protect 2 or 3 it's easier to organize for teamfighting, too
that would work, except for that one time when ADCs were actually really busted and there were more than one on a team fairly regularly HELLO PRESEASON 6
: guys, fiora is not broken she is only played top EKSDE
This analogy doesn't work because fiora isn't an entire class of champions. ADCs are. If a team would be stronger with more than one ADC, why not have more than one ADC?
: PSA : To All ADC's
have fun wasting your time?
: So wouldn't that mean its really supports that are OP and not ADCs? I gotta say, seeing maybe 3 posts on the front page about how ADCs are op really ticks me off.
: If ADCs are so overpowered
Because the biggest reason why ADCs are so powerful right now is the support behind them. {{item:3109}} {{item:3107}} {{item:3504}} {{item:3190}} give ADCs tons of healing, shields, damage reduction, and buffs overall.
: adc's are very weak right now. They literally have to go like 20-5 to be relevant. Its all about assassins and top lane right now.
Are you that guy who keeps making posts about how top lane controls the game. I was right.
Rioter Comments
: Forreal though, are ADC's just never suppose to die!!??! "Can ori not 1 shot my adc late game?" Uhh can your ADC build a defensive item? Why does everyone else have to build around eachother, but ADC's can go full crit with a lifesteal item and not get 1 shot? Jesus christ ADC is beyond fine.
I think OP has a problem with Orianna have so much utility *and* damage. If it was "OMG MY ADC WAS ONE SHOT BY SYNDRA" it would be something different. I still don't really agree with OP tho.
: besides the ones currently listed, who do you think needs a rework?
{{champion:13}} It's gonna happen. This rework didn't fix much and now he's just trash tier unless you are incredibly good at him.
: Can orianna not one shot my carry late game?
But the boards told me ADCs are unkillable and can drain tank anything!
: Is there any point in picking teemo when Kennen exists?
that's because they are radically different champions... lol
Escheton (EUW)
: Very recently saw a cc'd and focused down caught out Twitch survive longer than a Tank.
Sw4g3tti (EUNE)
: The thing is that mods have the power to lock/delete/ban whoever and whatever they want. And if they do it unjustifiably, they get no punishment or anything for it. The boards are under a dictatorship and we can do nothing about it. They censor everything they don't like.
You went from reasonably skeptical to full fledge tinfoil hatter really fast there.
: So explain why LeBlancs kit was so toxic and uninteractive for enemies
>No I do not consider "new way of LeBlanc with Gunblade" a champion Yeah your bias so so painfully apparent here that I don't think anyone should waste their time trying to have a discussion with you.
Sw4g3tti (EUNE)
: The irony of boards mods
I saw a mod lock a thread that was discussing how support itemization was the problem, not ADC itemization, LOL
Thilmer (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Marshbouy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xGXTN428,comment-id=00060003,timestamp=2017-06-22T15:49:00.489+0000) > > hows come they're necessary in every game then? You see tanks in every game becausee people is used to it. I have seen team compositions with 4 AD + 1 support and they just annihilate the enemy team with little counterplay or counterbuild.
: So explain why LeBlancs kit was so toxic and uninteractive for enemies
Because pantheon isn't a contested LCS pick that regularly did stuff like this https://youtu.be/Zin4SAvu43E
Rioter Comments
: tru but all i know is i loved season 6 alot more then this shit
People say that every season. "last season was better"
Rioter Comments
: I remember
>I remember season 6 I remember people complaining about every single one of these things during season 6
magewick (NA)
: Support itemization has changed countless times and yet marksmen remained the strongest archetype for 7 seasons. It is beyond stupid to still blame support itemization at this point. You can completely remove every support item from the game and the objective control a consistent ranged autoattack provides will still dominate.
I'm not saying that support itemization is the only reason why ADCs are powerful. I'm saying that support itemization is part of the reason why ADCs currently incredibly hard to kill.
deathgod5 (EUW)
: 3 reasons: 1. they disagree on a post that has no point to begin with like: I fucking hate my teammates from last game 2. To troll 3. because they disagree, but they are lurkers and they never comment
4. they disagree but don't want to formulate an argument right now 5. they disagree but at heart know that your argument is sound so they won't challenge it.
: 1: Copy and paste into a text document 2: Save to documents 3:??? 4: Profit
or just click "bookmark page"
: Thanks for that answer.
: Why are people saying this game is bad and/or dying.
>Why are people saying this game is bad and/or dying. literally every gaming community has a subset of people who are 100% convinced that the game is dying due to decisions that the company running the game has made. People were screaming about how an update to Minecraft would "kill the game". It was just a bunch of somewhat ugly blocks being added to the game. TL;DR: people always say this regardless
Sw4g3tti (EUNE)
: Watch out for the angry circlejerkers who will soon downvote this thread so hard.
Rioter Comments
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: I have read the post, and i have quoted the part i find stupid. Insulting the boards is getting tiring already, same as generalizing on this level. When your entire post is about how Boards should be ignored a little disclaimer "Oh btw, in some cases Riot should listen" is just an excuse to deflect critisism against your position.
Rioter Comments
: To paraphrase a quote from Mark Rosewater: Players are great at identifying problems. They aren't so great at coming up with solutions.
that's a good way of putting it.
Dextix LT (EUNE)
: Of course, the community is shit. Give Riot free reign!!!!! A rework like malzahar? DONT YOU DARE TALK ABOUT IT! RIOT KNOWS BETTER! Kog maw? RIOT KNOWS BETTER! DQ? RIOT KNOWS BETTER, SHUT UP BOARDS, YOU KNOW NOTHING! New jungle that completely killed any jungle diversity we had before? RIOT KNOWS BETTER, SHUT UP BOARD NOOBS! Riot SHOULD listen to the community, and search for COMPROMISES. So take this. > Why? The quick answer is, most of the vocal community is made up of people who really don't understand the game, are very entitled about what they want, and/or refuse to consider other viewpoints than their own. And stuff it UP YER ARSE!
The only thing keeping me from being legitimately annoyed is the fact that online you talk like some sort of steryotipical viking. I strongly recommend reading the post before writing a comment like this. >Does this mean riot should never listen to the community? No. If every ELO is having issues with a champion, they should be changed somehow. If high ELO is having issues with a champion, they should be changed somehow. There are plenty of instances where riot should listen to the community
ybuR (NA)
: The amount of alternative facts hate on adc is hilarious
I blame MM's post about how playing a tank is **really difficult**
: If MM makes a hugely biased post. Upvotes! If some randy makes a hugely biased post. Instantly downvoted.
^this That "omg tanks take so much skill" post gave me aids. Everything he said applied to every champion class. Everything. It was just a big whine fest of "oh my god, people called Mordekaiser faceroll!" then the comment section turned into a circlejerk of epic proportions.
: Hey Marshbouy, The way I see it, we are most effective as developers when we listen to the community as a source of feedback to help us make informed decisions. So in a way I agree that it's risky to just do whatever players suggest and hope for some kind of wisdom of crowds magic. It's not that we should pick and choose which players to listen to - it's more that you listen to all the feedback and begin to develop a picture of what is really going on. Taking a step back even farther, what is the point of having game developers if all they're doing is taking in community feedback and acting on it? We hire people because they have good judgment and intuition (and sometimes also a lot of experience). Part of that skill is knowing which parts of the feedback to listen to, or to figure out when players are talking about X, that the actual problem is really Y. I used to be a scientist (not necessarily a great scientist, mind you), so let me try this analogy. It's really dangerous to throw out data just because you don't like what it says, or even because you aren't sure how to interpret it. But it is the interpretation that's really important. That's where you really learn something. If I am reading the work of another scientist, I generally skip over their data. I just want to see the conclusion, and I'll only go back to the data if I think something smells fishy and I want to see it myself. Applying that to players, you don't want to dismiss community feedback just because it seems contradictory or because you don't understand it. But the magic comes from interpreting that feedback and using it to make changes that do improve the game over the long run.
>The way I see it, we are most effective as developers when we listen to the community as a source of feedback to help us make informed decisions. So in a way I agree that it's risky to just do whatever players suggest and hope for some kind of wisdom of crowds magic. It's not that we should pick and choose which players to listen to - it's more that you listen to all the feedback and begin to develop a picture of what is really going on. That makes sense. Is it ever a massive chore to listen to all the feedback though? >Part of that skill is knowing which parts of the feedback to listen to, or to figure out when players are talking about X, that the actual problem is really Y. hmm. Didn't think of it that way. > or because you don't understand it. please tell me there is a panel of people at riot games who's whole job is to interpret the terrible broken english of some gameplay boards posts. --- I think the biggest issue with how I phrase my post is my choice of words. I didn't really mean "block out anyone who complains about mastery yi" but it kind of came off that way. I really meant "don't just nerf master yi because people say 'nerf master yi'" Oops. Thanks for responding!
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Marshbouy

Level 30 (NA)
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