GenoXx (NA)
: Oh wow so let me get this straight: Clearly and purposely trolling a game = ok. Words that induce negative thoughts like stupid: Banned? System is clearly flawed.
This is exactly RIOT's policy. 100% Try to find the posts of "Sion Ornn Mid". RIOT depleted them all but you can probably find them somewhere on the web. He created a new account, trolled on it 100% of the time. Went from level 1 to level 61 and wracked up over 500 reports from his teammates and opponents for trolling and throwing games (confirmed by blue posts to his threads) but was never banned because he carefully avoided using a handful of trigger words in chat. In his chat logs he even boasted about the fact that he was trolling and knew how to beat the system. Nothing happened to him until he revealed it all in several forum posts to demonstrate how broken the system is. Then all of his posts disappeared, presumably under the auspice of 'teaching others to beat the system'. A few articles have even been written by gaming sites online about the 'bait-ban-bingo' community that tries to get as many LoL players banned as possible by trolling games and manipulating the people they're trolling into saying some of RIOTs trigger words. They then report the players they messed with in post game and get them banned. According to the articles 100s of players have been manipulated into getting themselves banned this way and very few of the trolls have seen punishment. Negative chat (aka use any of RIOTs trigger words) = permaban for 4 offenses. Intentionally feeding and ruining games = nothing. https://www.pcgamesn.com/league-of-legends/league-of-legends-permanent-ban-tricks https://www.eteknix.com/league-legends-players-baited-bans/
IxozieI (NA)
: This just shows how poorly designed their system is. They fail to account for the punishment that will be handed out when determining if you are guilty or not. In no universe is a permaban justified for what you said, regardless of what you were punished for beforehand. It's why these punishment tiers are idiotic, because not all offenses are worthy of the same punishment. Let's say someone served 15 years of prison for running into someone while drunk driving. He gets out, then he gets caught smoking weed. You don't say "oh let's give him life in prison since he had to serve 15 years last time". That's just absurd. Should you have shut up and muted everyone? Absolutely. Is your failure to do that worthy of a permaban? Absolutely NOT.
Agree 100%. Additionally, the punishments for first offenses are overly harsh IMO. A 10 game chat restriction isn't too awful. However when that comes with a complete loss of all honor for the entire season and can come from just one single game where you responded to people flaming you despite a whole season of honorable play it doesn't incentivize future good behavior. The goal of ANY correctional system should be exactly that, to correct negative behavior with the minimum level of punishment to deter it and to incentivize good behavior with appropriate rewards. The current system is so harsh for minor offenses and rewards for even outstanding behavior come so slow that players are effectively steered toward non-participation or else a toxic 'griefing under the rules' behavior where they engage in worse behavior than going off in chat such as intentional feeding that is impossible to punish under the current system. Telling you teammates to go F themselves while continuing to work to win the game is certainly toxic and should earn a chat restriction if repeatedly done. However, doing so can now get you perma-banned for just a handful of offenses. Meanwhile, several players have publicly shown that: stealing jungle camps by going smite-support, auto-feeding, and aiding the enemy team can be done for hundreds of games in a row with complete impunity.
GodCarry (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=MazerRackhem,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wauyY0e2,comment-id=0073,timestamp=2018-05-13T15:43:49.283+0000) > > No, you should absolutely not have been banned. However, the current system bans people for this and for LESS than this all the time. I can promise you no one has been punished for less than this without having their punishment overturned. This is by far as clean as a reform card can be.
My point was that the punishment, like so many others, is unfair. The fact that other people got punished for less than this adds to the argument that the system is broken. I have seen people punished for less and I have never seen anyone's punishment overturned. Arguing that you are the most slighted of all doesn't add to your case. Your ban was unjustified, the fact that other people have been banned for the same or less shouldn't offend you. The important point here is that your case is not a wildly out of character example of an otherwise good system; it is rather yet another example of an absolutely terrible system run amok. Your ban won't be overturned, RIOT won't comment on your post, and you won't get restitution. That's a HUGE problem with an absolutely awful system. Bringing attention to that broken system is important. Arguing that everyone else who got punished did something worse than you and your case is an outlier on the fringe is exactly how RIOT justifies banning your level of behavior because: "well maybe this was a little borderline, but overall our system is basically perfect." It needs to be recognized that your case is not unique or an especially egregious error of the system, it is instead very typical of a very broken system that is punishing players for very minor negativity in chat and letting griefers off completely free. The fact that people HAVE been punished for less and have NOT had their cases overturned is further evidence of the problem, not an argument that your ban was appropriate. Again, I agree completely that your should not have been punished for that chat log.
GodCarry (NA)
: I truly believe I was wrongfully banned. Please tell me what you think.
No, you should absolutely not have been banned. However, the current system bans people for this and for LESS than this all the time. I quit playing LoL because this new system is hopelessly broken. I played since season 1 and I have never so much as received a warning for toxic behavior of any kind in 8 years. I have earned "honor rewards" every season that they have had them (banners etc.). This season I was honored by teammates for being positive in the majority of my games and never got reported for anything. Then in ONE game I was being flamed hard. I responded by telling them that they "don't need to flame me for every single thing". They got pissed and reported me and I was punished. I put in a ticket, the RIOTer confirmed that just ONE game in an 8 year history of honorable play in which I never once used vulgar langue, trolled, or afked was worthy of losing all honor and being chat restricted under their new system. (To those who always say "there has to be more than this. RIOT repeatedly confirmed that is absolutely untrue. Under this system ONE game ALONE of very mild negativity can get you banned because 'negativity is negativity period'). Meanwhile, several players have invented "Ban-Bait-Bingo" where they intentionally feed all game, steal jungle camps, and so forth, but avoid 'trigger words' like: flame, pronouns, toxic, swear and racist words etc. They then try to get other players to flame them for intentionally losing, then report those players, and then the non-trolling players are banned by RIOT. One player Sion Oryn Mid managed to rack up 511 reports against him in a single month and still was not banned. He wasn't banned until he started boasting on the forums about how after 511 reports and trolling in 100% of his games from level 1 to level 53 he still had not been punished by RIOT. This system is so broken I quit the game after 8 years of play just because I refuse to be a part of it. Banning people because they use the word 'flame' repeatedly in a game is so hopelessly broken it makes me long for the good old days of the (supposedly broken) tribunal system.
: My Last Game of League
I also quit League due to the new Honor/Punishment system. I have been playing since season 1. I have NEVER before received so much as a warning and have earned honor banners etc. in previous seasons. This season I was honored in (as the OP says of himself) I would guess around 40% of my games with about half of those being honor from multiple teammates. To my knowledge I was never reported for any kind of negativity in any game this season until last week. Last week our bot lane was losing bad and flaming me (Jungle) for all their problems. I was having a rough day and responded with very mild sarcasm and told them I wasn't going to argue with them anymore because they were being "Toxic AF". After that game, and based 100% on that game ALONE (RIOTer confirmed this), I had my entire season's honor wiped out, received a 10 game chat restriction, and was told that my future honor would accrue "much slower." I quit rather than put up with a system that punishes positive players for getting frustrated one single time and responding with mild salt to trolls while doing nothing to the trolls. I hope RIOT abandons the new punishment system, if they do I'll come back, but otherwise it's really not all worth worth it. The new system makes the game more toxic, not less.
: The report only shows the game(s) that triggered the punishment, not your full history. The Rioter said your game was worthy of punishment, but that's true of any game where you display toxicity. The key fact here is that not every valid report ends in a punishment. Except in the case of hate speech, it takes more than one game. They're on record as saying aside from that one exception, IFS punishments are more about history than single game behavior. I'd be willing to bet if you asked, they'd be able to give you a chatlog of another game that you got validly reported in that wasn't on the reform card.
> [{quoted}](name=Karunamon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EAIA8eM2,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-03T00:18:41.568+0000) > Except in the case of hate speech, it takes more than one game. They're on record as saying aside from that one exception, IFS punishments are more about history than single game behavior. > Do you have a link to them going on record with this? I kept pushing the RIOTer who was looking at my ticket on this front, saying that I could not believe that this game in complete isolation would ever be considered worthy of a punishment wiping out a whole season of honorable play. I repeatedly asked him about the policy on this and he responded each time by saying that this game ALONE was the reason for the punishment. He kept using analogies like "Well if you were super nice all year long and then just attacked someone out of nowhere you'd still go to jail right?" as justification for why this alone was worthy of the punishment. I tried to point out that I didn't "attack someone out of nowhere" I responded to extremely toxic players with frustrated negativity in my own defense. (Again, I'm not justifying how I responded, I could have done better I know). He politely brushed that aside and said "you were still negative, so your punished. I can't tell tell you if they were punished too or not." So, to my mind, what you describe absolutely SHOULD be the policy, but this RIOTer is telling me its not and just ONE single game of even mildly negative behavior gets you smashed with the punishment bat. According to him (and he has repeatedly confirmed this) a long history or honorable play is completely meaningless, ANY negativity (even mild negativity w/o hate speech, vulgar language, or trying to lose the game for the team like feeding) in just ONE single game can get you sent down the punishment ladder. No history of negative play at all is required for escalating punishments. I agree with you that this seems like it cannot possibly be the policy, but that is what I am being told by RIOT and that is what my game history shows. As I said in the OP, before this one game, not only am I not aware of a single time where any player reported me for anything, I actively received honor from players at a rate of greater than 1 honor a game.
: I'm going to disagree with pretty much everything except your last point - the chat shows the bog standard passive-aggression and arguing that has been rightfully punished a million times, and you fall headlong into the "context excuses tox" mindset with the notes. You also had to have done this more than once, since this chatlog by itself probably wouldn't trigger a punishment. It takes more than a single game unless hate speech is on the table. **All that being said...** I think it would be nicer if we started with more token punishments before locking out honor and yanking ranked rewards. Especially since valid reports are slowing/resetting your honor progression within a level, silently, already. Even if it's not a punishment, and more of just a warning. There currently is no "just a warning" in the IFS, you just find yourself immediately CRed and stripped. And it has to be discouraging. There's no way it can't be. It boils down to the lack of feedback being a problem that permeates the IFS from both the reporter and the reportee side.
> [{quoted}](name=Karunamon,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EAIA8eM2,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-02T20:51:13.807+0000) u also had to have done this more than once, since this chatlog by itself probably wouldn't trigger a punishment. It takes more than a single game unless hate speech is on the table. > This is the only game I have behaved this way at all. There are no other games in the report. The RIOTer I spoke with told me that this chat alone was worthy of the punishment. The punishment was for this game ONLY with 50 games of good behavior behind it with 0 reports. Thats my biggest point here. Just this game ALONE wipes out all of my honor for a whole season?
Opdí (NA)
: This is Permabanabble???
Whether or not the perma-ban was warranted I can't say. The majority of posters here seem to agree "No." However, on the broader front I couldn't agree more that the new ban system is broken. I have played since Season 1. I have earned "honor banners" in multiple seasons in the past, I have NEVER been punished/banned/even warned for any behavior before this season. This season I was honored by teammates in, I would estimate 40% of my games. Last week I got into a game where bot lane was flaming hard. I very very rarely respond to flamers but on this one day I was in a bad mood for IRL reasons. I said "Oh did the 0/2 Ez whose been flaming me all game need my help with something now?", "Just muting you. Bot lane toxic AF." and "Dude, you don't have to flame me for literally every action I take." That's it! That was all I said to them. The rest of my chat was praising my team for good plays. Got chat restricted for 10 game and what's much worse, had my honor for the entire season wiped out. This system does not promote "good behavior" it punishes good people arbitrarily and clearly still does not weed out the trolls (case in point, the bot lane who was flaming all game).
Bıogen (EUW)
: Seems to me you were only defending yourself, but I think the system detected some phrases in which you were calling out your teammates, which is considered negative behavior. So next time, it's better to just mute them and focus on your own game. But losing your honor streak just because of this lousy game is way too harsh in my opinion.
> [{quoted}](name=Bıogen,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EAIA8eM2,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-02T19:56:02.170+0000) > > Seems to me you were only defending yourself, but I think the system detected some phrases in which you were calling out your teammates, which is considered negative behavior. So next time, it's better to just mute them and focus on your own game. > > But losing your honor streak just because of this lousy game is way too harsh in my opinion. Thanks Biogen. That's my feeling as well. I'm not arguing that I couldn't have handled the situation better, I know that I could have. But you hit on my point. It's way to harsh to lose everything you worked for based on one mildly salty game. A warning to not slide down that road? Sounds right. A mild punishment that doesn't wipe out all your honor (maybe your honor freezes for 5 games say)? Sounds a bit heavy handed to me, but OK. A wrecking ball that takes out all of your honor and resets you to a level below what you started the season at? WAAY over the top. That doesn't encourage me to "be better" next game, it encourages me to give up on trying to build my honor in the first place.
Rioter Comments
Terozu (NA)
: Riot is changing Annie's lore.
I get that I'm just a bit late to the thread here. But honestly, if you care about lore, LoL basically died 4 years ago. Every single champion has had their original lore butchered. Some of them *cough* Trynn *cough* have seen their lore ripped up and rewritten from scratch 3 or even 4 times already! I love LoL as a MOBA game, but I gave up even rolling my eyes at RIOTs "lore" years ago. It isn't "lore" or "cannon" if you rewrite it every few months. It's glorified fan fiction. Frankly that's all LoL lore has been for many years now. They don't even bother trying to recon. They just delete the "old" (old = more than 3 months ago) lore and rewrite new like it never existed. It's lazy, it's sad, and the fan deserve way better, but the butchering is not going to change. So I just stopped reading any of it and just pretend it doesn't exist. After all, in another 3-12 months, it won't.
: The IFS has many modules that all look for different things. The first chat module looks for zero tolerance phrases, like racist slurs or urging self harm. Those cause an escalated punishment. One of the chat modules has been explained that it reads all the chat, and scores each line for negativity. It seems that it gives a cumulative score for the chat as a whole. So, a lot of minor negativity can be more punishable that a single outburst, unless said outburst includes zero tolerance phrases. That negativity number, if it's high enough in that single chat log, causes the next punishment. Or the number is put into a formula of toxicity over time, and reaching a threshold over many games causes the next tier of punishment. //Edit Many of the modules use deep learning algorithms to identify what new things the community considers toxic, and how toxic those things are. This process is shepherded by human intervention.
> [{quoted}](name=Silent Gravity,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YnORdFBX,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-03-11T22:44:14.101+0000) > > The IFS has many modules that all look for different things. > > The first chat module looks for zero tolerance phrases, like racist slurs or urging self harm. Those cause an escalated punishment. > > One of the chat modules has been explained that it reads all the chat, and scores each line for negativity. It seems that it gives a cumulative score for the chat as a whole. So, a lot of minor negativity can be more punishable that a single outburst, unless said outburst includes zero tolerance phrases. That negativity number, if it's high enough in that single chat log, causes the next punishment. Or the number is put into a formula of toxicity over time, and reaching a threshold over many games causes the next tier of punishment. > > //Edit > Many of the modules use deep learning algorithms to identify what new things the community considers toxic, and how toxic those things are. This process is shepherded by human intervention. That's really interesting. Thanks for that. I suppose if the system continues to update its weighting dynamically that could mean a gradual improvement in handing out bans overtime as well. Thanks to everyone for the info, this was all really helpful. I feel like I understand the system a lot better now. The "Only one report matters feature" seems like a good implementation and knowing about that helps a lot. The more I think about it the more I'm glad that's how the system is set up, so many positives provided the automatic check following the report can accurately assess the situation. Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the system checks for AFK status when a report for rage quitting comes in? I would imagine the system could check something like APS or total distance moved over a period of time or something like that to verify that a player has given up and is just sitting at the fountain or in a bush in the jungle.
: How Many Reports Does It Take to Be Punished?
Also, I suppose then, if the number of reports is irrelevant then there is no point in requesting other players report the person raging. That's actually kind of nice because often when you request the opposing team report a player for raging that just makes them more pissed off and the situation gets worse. I've always tried to avoid saying anything until the game is seconds from being over for that reason.
: Number of reports doesn't matter within one game, and only across multiple games if they're valid. Reports do nothing if there was no bad behavior.
> [{quoted}](name=Scuffleboard,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YnORdFBX,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-03-11T17:56:28.055+0000) > > Number of reports doesn't matter within one game, and only across multiple games if they're valid. Reports do nothing if there was no bad behavior. How does the game determine if there was or was not bad behavior?
: How Many Reports Does It Take to Be Punished?
Interesting. So it doesn't matter whether 5 people or 1 person reports a player in a game? It only matters if you get report at all for the game. That's surprising to me.
Rioter Comments
: You are misunderstanding something pretty important here. Your Score has nothing to do with your performance compared to your teammates, it is judged based on other people playing your Champion. It is based on the performance of other people playing that same champion and how well you did compared to that. -**NOTE THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE, NOT AN ACTUAL STATISTIC**- If the Average Rammus gets 90 farm by 30 minutes but you only got 86 by 30 minutes, you are performing below average for Rammus. If the average Vayne goes 8/4/2 with 150 CS by 45 minutes and that Vayne went 12/3/5 with 191 CS by 45 minutes, they are performing above average for Vayne. You will get a lower score than the Vayne because the Vayne is performing above average whereas you performed below average compared to others who played those champions. Again this is just an example, not a real representation of what happened or actual statistics.
> [{quoted}](name=Stephenizgod,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=FihXpw2E,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-08-14T02:45:09.306+0000) > > You are misunderstanding something pretty important here. Your Score has nothing to do with your performance compared to your teammates, it is judged based on other people playing your Champion. It is based on the performance of other people playing that same champion and how well you did compared to that. > > -**NOTE THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE, NOT AN ACTUAL STATISTIC**- > > If the Average Rammus gets 90 farm by 30 minutes but you only got 86 by 30 minutes, you are performing below average for Rammus. If the average Vayne goes 8/4/2 with 150 CS by 45 minutes and that Vayne went 12/3/5 with 191 CS by 45 minutes, they are performing above average for Vayne. You will get a lower score than the Vayne because the Vayne is performing above average whereas you performed below average compared to others who played those champions. > > Again this is just an example, not a real representation of what happened or actual statistics. Again, I significantly outperformed every Rammus stat, as I posted above. I KNOW how it works, I UNDERSTAND how it works, my point is, I CRUSHED every average Rammus stat (KDA, Assists, Kill Participation, etc) and only slightly beat the average CS. Clearly CS is weighted way too heavily. Just so we're clear. Are you honestly arguing that a 30 KDA on Rammus or a 41 KDA on Ezreal is "just ok" for those champs? The average is .76!!! 30 is in something like the 99.99 percentile! I have S ranked games in my history with far less impressive performances. Are you honestly arguing that I deserve an "A" rank because I only beat the average CS by 10 even though I obliterated every other average?
Sneed (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=MazerRackhem,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=FihXpw2E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-08-12T02:19:54.020+0000) > > Lol. Dude its called jungling 1st of all. 2nd I out CSed the enemy jungle. 3rd 75% kill participation is GREAT on any champ, and a 30 KDA is OUTSTANDING on every champ. CS was the only score that I wasn't off the charts on, and it certainly wasn't that bad. My entire point was that CS is clearly weighted WAAAY too heavily. All vayne did all game was afk farm and he got 2 grades higher than the people carrying him. Clearly a VERY broken system. cs should be weighted heavily. gold is gold no matter how you get it.
> [{quoted}](name=Mesprit,realm=OCE,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=FihXpw2E,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-08-12T03:34:07.024+0000) > > cs should be weighted heavily. gold is gold no matter how you get it. Yeah, and as you can see above I was above the average in it (Even taking top laners into account!!) , and absolutely crushing in everything else.
: VERY Broken 'ranking'
I'll do you one EVEN BETTER! Today: 10/1/31 on Ezreal got an A rank Our Poppy 16/7/23 got an S 10/1/31 is A!?!?!!?!?!?!!?!? That's a 41 KDA!! System is so fail. Anyone who thinks otherwise is out of their damn mind.
: VERY Broken 'ranking'
Ranked game statistics: Average Rammus CS Globally: 76 (that includes top lane Rammus players, which make up roughly 30% of the total and increase the number significantly) [10 less than mine] Average Rammus KDA: .76 [A massive 29.24 less than mine] Average assists: 10.69 [A huge 16.31 less than mine] You were saying?
: VERY Broken 'ranking'
Lol. Dude its called jungling 1st of all. 2nd I out CSed the enemy jungle. 3rd 75% kill participation is GREAT on any champ, and a 30 KDA is OUTSTANDING on every champ. CS was the only score that I wasn't off the charts on, and it certainly wasn't that bad. My entire point was that CS is clearly weighted WAAAY too heavily. All vayne did all game was afk farm and he got 2 grades higher than the people carrying him. Clearly a VERY broken system.
Rioter Comments
: I'd say dive right in. A lot of people view ranked climbing as a goal to attain, a badge of honor to grind towards. I however view my rating as my current skill level. I don't cheese the system or abuse mechanics to win win win, I just play the way I always play and let my rank sort itself out. No benefit in artificially inflating my rating. Just play and you'll naturally climb/get better.
> [{quoted}](name=Davey Jay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ty4yY3z,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-04-07T18:42:35.621+0000) > > I'd say dive right in. A lot of people view ranked climbing as a goal to attain, a badge of honor to grind towards. I however view my rating as my current skill level. I don't cheese the system or abuse mechanics to win win win, I just play the way I always play and let my rank sort itself out. No benefit in artificially inflating my rating. Just play and you'll naturally climb/get better. This ^ is a completely valid point of view as well. The real answer depends on what you want out of the game. I disagree with this poster because this method of play will not get me what I want out of the game. But there is nothing wrong with approaching ranked ques with this mindset. I personally view ranked as a way to measure myself against everyone else when I'm at my best. So I play normals to break in/learn new champs that I want to eventually play in ranked, or when I'm feeling tired or just want to play something casually that's fun, but not great in the meta, like jungle Galio or something. I only play ranked games in my best roles with my best champs. I know I'll never make the LCS, and I'll probably never even make Diamond, but I like to only play ranked when I'm at my best and really try to push my ranking up each season, becoming a better player and trying to get into a higher percentile of the community each time. I get a sense of accomplishment from finding out what works in the meta and finding strategies that improve my chances of winning in each patch. I think a lot of people who take ranked games "seriously" share this feeling. However, it is still a game, and unless you are one of the 700ish people out of 70 million who plans to make a living off of playing this game, your personal view of ranked games will also impact when you should start playing them. My advice above will get you to a higher ranking than this poster's will, but that doesn't mean my view is right and his is wrong. It depends on what you personally want out of the game.
SnoopyDL (NA)
: When would you recommend starting ranked?
Play ranked when: 1) you can say (at least roughly) what every champion in the game's spells are and how they work. REASON: Otherwise you're going to get into a game and be up against Illoai or something and there are going to be tentacles fricken everywhere and you won't know why the hell they keep spawning on you. You don't want to lose just because you can't say what the opponents kit is made up of. 2) You have at least 3 "main" champs in two "main" roles that you can play reliably and have runes/masteries for. REASON: You have to learn 2 roles because of que system. If one champ is banned in your role and one champ is picked, you're screwed if you can't play at least 3 at a good level. (2) just takes time and focused practice. Same with (1), but with (1) you have to be more intentional. Whenever there is a champ in the free rotation you've never played a game with que up a bot game and play through it to learn his/her kit. ARAMs can also be fun low stress environments to round out your general knowledge of the champs when your owned+free champs pool is large enough. In the end, once your ready, start playing ranked. Expect to get placed lower than you deserve at first due to the initial placement system and RNG. If you play enough games over the course of the season you'll get to where you belong. Just have a positive attitude and remember that, for every game you get stuck with a rage quitting 12 year old and lose pointlessly, there will be a game where the other team has a rage quitting 12 year old and you win without effort. The important thing is to stay positive, play your best, and to get in enough games to balance out the random fluctuations of match making.
Aír (NA)
: Vlad mains be like...
Nah, if anything he's going to be stronger after the patch. They're going to buff all of his native regeneration so that he doesn't need the spell vamp. That will open up all kinds of new options and dynamics for him. I don't play him much currently, but I expect him to be very strong post patch.
: What the hell is this Riot?
I was complaining back in season 4 when RIOT started randomly replacing splash arts of skins people had purchased. I tried to get a petition going of people who wanted to be able to display the old art, the one that they actually paid money for instead of whatever new "better" version RIOT unilaterally decided they liked more. People got all pissy and were like "your weird go away we like the new stuff better, who cares what you paid for?" Well, here you go. I hate the new art too, but if people would have put their foot down 2 years ago and said "You can't just replace the art we paid for whenever you get bored" this probably wouldn't have been an issue today. GL, I honestly hope you can get the good art back, but at this point its SOP for RIOT to pull this shit. So I doubt it.
KOC rule (NA)
: Still gotta use the animations on Skarner spires {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
> [{quoted}](name=KOC rule,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=w2apss1r,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-04-07T17:14:14.297+0000) > > Still gotta use the animations on Skarner spires {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} Also this^
: Riot: We won't keep dominion in custom games because then we'd have to make capture animations
Yeah, we all knew they were full of it when they said that. They're taking away an entire game mode because they have to program a capture animation for one new champ every month or two? BS. Then they say "Oh well maybe we'll put it in the rotating game mode." Like it somehow requires less work to program everything when the mode is only up for 3 days instead of all the time. It's like if Blizzard said "We're disabling all the original content zones because the old dialog boxes from quest givers aren't programmed to say "Pandaria" or "Monk" because they weren't in the game yet when we made those quests." It was a lame excuse when RIOT first used it and with every new announcement it becomes ever more obvious how BS it was.
Šhyvana (NA)
: Fair and much needed small change to the ranked system
No and here's why. Because there are many situations where the "best thing for me" is NOT "the best thing for my team that helps us win." Thus, players with better score lines are not always the player who most helped the team win. A Tank who engage a fight, CC the enemy carries, and then dies while only damaging 3 out of the 5 members of the enemy team arguably did far more to win the team fight then the adc who came up behind them and Pentakilled everyone like shooting fish in a barrel. Yet under your system the ADC would be rewarded more than the tank. You can dream up dozens of more examples yourself. However, the point should be clear. Players who "do well" are players who increase their team's odds of winning. Players who "do poorly" are players who decrease their team's odds of winning. The only way to reliably reward "do well" in ranked is to go up when you win and down when you lose. Over time if you are "doing well" you will move up, if you are "doing poorly" you will lose. Nothing else makes sense.
: Yorik Damage Dealt to Champs Bug
That makes some sense. It seems to me that that would still be considered a 'bug' though. Since it really messes up any ability you have to measure how effective you were.
Rioter Comments
Sukishoo (NA)
: Over 3 years ago not a year ago.
> [{quoted}](name=Sukishoo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=15xi7W5n,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-04-06T17:09:09.374+0000) > > Over 3 years ago not a year ago. Over 3 years ago is over a year ago #Math
: What happened to this department?
They took tribunal down over a year ago and promised it would only be gone briefly while they reworked a couple of things. If they've gone over a year without it and haven't felt the pressure to bring it back by now, it's gone. I thought tribunal was a fantastic idea. Apparently RIOT disagreed. It's gone, it's not coming back. Every now and then they vaguely wave their hands at it to shoo away the players who complain "You promised this wasn't a permanent change" but the fact is I doubt they ever had any real intention of keeping it. It's sad really, but that's RIOT.
GreenLore (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=MazerRackhem,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IEw4TrBF,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2016-04-04T14:52:04.038+0000) > > Anivia, **Ashe, Trynn, Sej,** and Trundle anyone? All this Freljord crap was invented out of the blue and not a single one of these champs had ANY connection with the Freljord when they were released. Yet now, the Freljord is their ONLY backstory and their ONLY motivation. RIOT could have written about the "Opening of the Freljord" and how these champs were drawn to it and how it changed them or whatever, but they didn't. Are you serious? Ashe and Sejuani were always freljord champions and Tryndamere became one even before the freljord event... The only real change that those 3 got in their lores was the fact that tryndameres tribe was killed by aatrox,not by noxians and that they didn't join the league.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenLore,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IEw4TrBF,comment-id=00150001,timestamp=2016-04-04T17:26:18.602+0000) > > Are you serious? > Ashe and Sejuani were always freljord champions and Tryndamere became one even before the freljord event... > The only real change that those 3 got in their lores was the fact that tryndameres tribe was killed by aatrox,not by noxians and that they didn't join the league. Nice effort but no. By "old lore" you must mean "the one before this latest iteration," the people who've been here since the beginning know better. I give you just one example as proof of how completely RIOT has wrecked the old lore. Its so far gone you're a thread about how RIOT wrecks lore arguing that the old stuff never existed or didn't change much. That might be the impression you get if you've only seen the latest couple reboots and honestly believe RIOT's shtick that nothing was different before that. Stick around another couple of years and everything you read about the champs today will be gone as well. It's to the point that it's almost impossible to even find the original lore from the pre-season one days online. In another couple of years 1/2 the champs of today will see their bios disappear the same way. When you reboot lore 5 times its easy to think of iteration 3 as the "old original" one but: Example: Trynn's old lore: "There was a legend among the barbarians clans of the Fyrone Flats, told each time one of their own was to give birth. It was a story about a child who would enter the world with a distinctive mark on his belly— a black circular rune, resembling a snake, coiled over on itself, biting at its tail. It was said that when this child was born, it would signal the beginning of a new era. It was said that the barbarian tribes would rise up, and under the banner of a serpent-shaped rune, they would rule the world. When that child was born, the barbarian nations rejoiced. They feasted and drank and danced. And when they finished, they donned their skins, lifted their swords, and they flooded out of the flats to begin an onslaught that once again plunged the world into war. The child, named Tryndamere, became a formidable warrior. And now, here at the Institute of War, he is prepared to unleash his barbaric strength and take his place atop the world." The first part of Trynn's complete hack job new lore: "Fueled by his unbridled fury and rage, Tryndamere cuts his way through the tundra, mastering the art of battle by challenging the Freljord's greatest warriors. The wrathful barbarian seeks revenge on the one who decimated his clan and strikes down all those who stand between him and his final retribution. Struggling to survive in the harsh, frostbitten Freljord, the young Tryndamere and his people warred with other tribes over the scarce resources of the land." Some of the changes: 1st In the original maps published by RIOT Fyrone Flats was ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD from the Freljord! There are literally 6 named regions between the two with F.F. in the extreme south and Freljord in the extreme north! That's why Trynn is shirtless! He was originally a desert Barbarian in a region next to Sharima! They just didn't bother to put cold weather clothes on his character model when they decided "lets delete everything and make him a part of our Freljord reboot pack." His original art has him in a brown desert region. 2nd There is NO mention of Trynn's clan being killed. The insinuation is even that they are still alive and well. 3rd There is no mention of the Freljord whatsoever and there is no connection to it in any way shape or form. 4th In the new lore he has no messiah mark (his primary characteristic in the original) and he learns to fight AFTER the death of his clan where he clearly was the best warrior of the tribes before any "traumatic everyone dies" event could have happened. I could go on and bring in champion after champion (Anivia originally wasn't even from Runeterra at all!! She's was a space phoenix) but this case here should suffice to demonstrate how completely RIOT destroys its old lore. RIOT has completely, utterly, and totally deleted and rebuilt the lore of almost every single champ in the league from seasons 1 and 2. The fact that people who follow the lore today don't even know that it's happened just goes to prove how completely RIOT disregards any connection with old lore while writing new stuff.
: My problems with Targon
RIOT doesn't care about lore. As a player who has been here since before Season 1 and who LOVES game lore in general all I can do is shake my head in sadness at the absolute utter train wreck that is League of Legends lore. This is literally 100% RIOTs approach to lore: "Like the lore? Awesome! Enjoy it for the next 2 months because then it's all going away." "Don't like the lore? No problem! We're going to completely delete everything we've ever written about every champion you play and rewrite them from scratch next week with zero regard to or connection with what their old story used to be. Enjoy!" We are at the point where there is almost no champion in the game has even a connection with their original bio. I can still remember most of the original story lines and the character bios those champs have today don't even pay homage to their original origin stories much less have any connection with them. Anivia, Ashe, Trynn, Sej, and Trundle anyone? All this Freljord crap was invented out of the blue and not a single one of these champs had ANY connection with the Freljord when they were released. Yet now, the Freljord is their ONLY backstory and their ONLY motivation. RIOT could have written about the "Opening of the Freljord" and how these champs were drawn to it and how it changed them or whatever, but they didn't. Instead they said "Let's slash and burn all the old lore. Conduct a salted earth campaign over it. Then pretend it never existed and write everything from scratch based solely on these new champion splash arts we're doing." How can they expect anyone to become invested in Runeterra lore of any kind when a champion's backstory, and indeed the entire nature of the continent, what exists and doesn't exist in it, and the very nature of the League of Legends itself can be changed on a whim with no connection to anything that came before. RIOT doesn't have "lore." They have a collection of constantly evolving fan fictions with no connection to any cannon worth learning.
: > [{quoted}](name=Baunjo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X6ylNlZQ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-03-29T18:48:56.376+0000) > > It kinda varies, I won 5 out of 10 of my games in s4 and got silver 4, but won 7/10 of my games in s5 and got bronze 2. Don't fret too much about your placements, if you get placed in a league you don't belong in you will get out. Don't blame ELO hell There is such a thing as ELO Hell and it's Bronze. Don't EVER believe anyone that tells you "you will get where you belong". That's utter bullshit. As a supp or jg or ANY role, I continuously hand my team winning conditions, set them up for kills. If you have **bad players** (those that have no map awareness or don't know when to pressure objectives) on your team, you WILL FALL WITH THEM. DO NOT believe otherwise. Your job in low ELO is to CARRY the shittiest players out there. If you don't win, you don't earn LP, you don't climb. That's the way it is. Win = LP = Climb. Your team is as strong as your weakest player. And man has Bronze been full of shit this week. It's like it's a conspiracy to keep players in Bronze. You get this amazing win streak and then nothing but losses until you drop tier. This is why you just don't get out of Bronze on your own. System is broken. Game is broken.
> [{quoted}](name=SSIK RabbitHex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X6ylNlZQ,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-03-30T06:00:36.463+0000) > > There is such a thing as ELO Hell and it's Bronze. Don't EVER believe anyone that tells you "you will get where you belong". That's utter bullshit. As a supp or jg or ANY role, I continuously hand my team winning conditions, set them up for kills. If you have **bad players** (those that have no map awareness or don't know when to pressure objectives) on your team, you WILL FALL WITH THEM. DO NOT believe otherwise. Your job in low ELO is to CARRY the shittiest players out there. If you don't win, you don't earn LP, you don't climb. > > That's the way it is. Win = LP = Climb. Your team is as strong as your weakest player. And man has Bronze been full of shit this week. > > It's like it's a conspiracy to keep players in Bronze. You get this amazing win streak and then nothing but losses until you drop tier. This is why you just don't get out of Bronze on your own. System is broken. Game is broken. Also don't listen to Bronze trolls like this who don't know Jack. He's pissed off because he's in Bronze IV and can't get out. He can't accept that it's HIS play that's keeping him there so he has to blame the system and RIOT. If you play 200ish ranked games over the course of a season and you belong in say Silver III- Gold V, there's basically no way you end the season in Bronze IV. Even if you can't hard carry every game you will tilt the odds into your favor and win more games then you lose and will rise. Keep in mind, all of the crap he talks about having to deal with on his team is exactly the same on the OTHER team. At any given rank the players on BOTH teams are pulled from the same pool of players. Whatever crap you deal with some of the time will be equaled out by stupid things the OTHER team has to deal with in another randomly drawn game. What makes you rise or fall in the rankings over a large number of games is YOUR play and YOUR play only. YOU are the only constant in your games. Sometimes you have a troll, sometimes they do, sometimes your team gets lucky, sometimes they do. The only constant is YOU. If you play 200 games and don't move in rank it's because you are not shifting the odds into your teams favor with your play. You are the only constant. Streamers constantly make a game of taking an account starting in Bronze V (easily done by dodging every placement game) and getting all the way to Diamond tier or above. If "ELO Hell" was so bad it was inescapable they wouldn't be able to make this run. Yet they do it over and over. It is NO DIFFERENT if you belong in Gold IV rather that Diamond I. You will rise from Bronze V over time, the only difference is you will settle out in Gold rather than Diamond. I have personally done this. When they introduced the new Dynamic Que I was practicing new roles/champs in my Normals that I'm trying to learn (as I usually do) without realizing the MMRs were reset and early wins/losses mattered a lot for your MMR. I lost a lot of early games and soon realized I was playing with teammates almost exclusively in Bronze II and below. Playing with summoners so far below my ranked placement is useless for practicing new champs to use in ranked games. So, I spent about two weeks playing only my main roles and my best champs in my normal games and I rose easily from playing with mid Bronze players to high silver and low gold players. I went from having the lowest MMR player on my team at around 1000 to having it at around 1600 in just two weeks, and my MMR is only around 1800. It does not matter where you place, work hard, play well, and above all STAY POSITIVE even when the shit hits the fan and you will rise to where you belong by the end of the season. Don't believe anyone who says otherwise. The people who are "stuck in Bronze" are the people who BELONG IN BRONZE. Most of them cannot admit that, and because they cannot admit that THEY are at fault they cannot and will not improve. They continue to labor under the false belief that they are gold material and nothing about their play needs to change, that it is "the system" that is keeping them down. The only way to improve is to change, and the only way to change is to recognize that what you are doing now is wrong. If you cannot admit that you are the reason you are in Bronze then you will never get out of Bronze, period.
: If You Have A Permabanned Account but...
1,000 seems excessive to me. I've been playing since season 1 and I have somewhere between 2k-3k games on my account. However, I could see something like a combined time and # of games played requirement. I'm not against the idea. I've never been banned at all, but I do like the idea of account redemption for those who reform, I just see a lot of difficulties with implementing it. I'm totally for it, but I'm not sure that RIOT is going to be convinced to put something like that in when, in reality, probably under 1% of banned players would ever reform to the point of getting their accounts back. My thought is, from RIOTs point of view it looks like: We put this in, it rewards the 1% of the 10% of our players who are banned and then truly reform, but to reward that .001% of our player base we're going to have to put up with 100% of those banned players who get banned and whine about getting their accounts back but don't deserve it. Plus those .001% of players now have a new account with over 500 games played on it, so why do they desperately need the old one anyway? Witness the DarkLarvitar guy above who has had whopping 10 or 11s account banned!! and still thinks he deserves to get them back. I like the idea, but it'd be a headache for RIOT to deal with and I doubt you'd convince them the upside was worth it. I think the biggest question is: Can you convince RIOT that putting a system like this in place would cause a significant number of players to truly reform who would NOT have reformed otherwise? If the answer is no, then, as much as I may agree with you that the idea is a nice one, it isn't going to happen.
Xelnex (NA)
: Question about Ranked.
My recommendation to you would be: If you have a friend who plays ranked and you believe is roughly the same skill level as yourself, duo que with that person for all your placement games. That will ensure you are playing your starting games with people roughly where you belong. That will help you normalize close to an appropriate rank. That being said, don't worry too much about your starting location. If you are placed well below your rank you will rise quickly. It is even possible to skip tiers after a promotion series. This season I got pretty screwed on my placements and ran into a lot of trolls and rage quitters in my first 6 games. I ended up 5-5 in my placements and was put into Silver 1 (I ended last season Gold 1) . However, I moved up easily getting 25-30 LP for wins and losing 10-15 for losses and I jumped straight from Gold 5 to Gold 3 in one promo. In under 80 games I'm back in Gold 1 and close to a promo to Plat. If you belong much higher than you place you will move up quickly. The best thing is to get the promos out of the way so that you have the whole season to move up to where you belong.
: If You Have A Permabanned Account but...
Probably not going to happen. HOWEVER, I will say, I like the idea of toxic players who reform getting their old accounts back. My guess is it would be extremely rare, since most toxic players never learn and only get worse and worse. But, if a player made a new account, got to level 30 and then played regularly for a full year without ever being punished even one time I think getting their old account back as a reward for reforming would be a nice "welcome back to the community" gift. The problem I see is that how do you define "regularly"? How do you tell the difference between the reformed player and the douche bag who makes a new account and plays it one time a week and is stupidly over the top nice in that one game, while trolling his heart out on his OTHER new account where he is every bit as toxic as he ever was? I like the idea of 'account redemption' for players who really do reform and work extremely hard over a long period of time to become good community members, but I see too many problems with actually implementing that system for it to become a reality.
: Key Fragments?
Also, in answer to your question Keys drop from ANY matchmade game (not bot games or customs). That includes Normal SR, Ranked SR, ARAM, and Twisted Treeline. HOWEVER! Key drops from ARAM and TT are currently bugged and are NOT dropping. RIOT has acknowledged the problem but it's been over a week since they posted the bug and no word yet on when they will fix it. Maybe not before next patch.
: Key Fragments?
The whole point from RIOTS P.O.V. is to get you to spend more money. If they hand you a bunch of chests that you really want to unlock but the key drop rate is really low maybe you'll just give up and buy the keys. The point was never to actually give anything away. Think of it this way and it helps: a month ago you didn't get ANYTHING for S ranks or wins outside of IP and LP. Today you get everything you used to, but very rarely you have a chance to get a free skin or something. There's no use asking for better drop rates, if the keys dropped easily people wouldn't buy them, so RIOT isn't going to increase drop rates. Also, since you can get any skin (even ones you think are dumb or for champs you don't play), or no skin at all from a chest it's a suckers bet to buy chests and keys unless you just want something and don't care what it is. If there is something you specifically want in the store you're better off just buying it. Buying a bunch of keys to unlock chests that are probably going to contain stuff you would NOT have spent money on directly from the store is silly.
: I'v received this message twice this week.
You only see the message when you (and your teammates) are the people to report them in their last game right before they get punished. So if you report someone, and they get punished after someone else reports them next game, the next person gets the message, but you don't see anything.
: Yes, it really is hard not to be toxic. The game isn't very fun when you play by yourself, sometimes even with friends. When things go wrong you feel trapped, angry, and hopeless, and most people would rather not keep those emotions in. Looking at those responses though, I'd sooner guess that they were intentionally flaming to try to get a faster surrender.
> [{quoted}](name=disregardable,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rfpipJj2,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-03-29T23:33:57.882+0000) > > Yes, it really is hard not to be toxic. The game isn't very fun when you play by yourself, sometimes even with friends. When things go wrong you feel trapped, angry, and hopeless, and most people would rather not keep those emotions in. > > Looking at those responses though, I'd sooner guess that they were intentionally flaming to try to get a faster surrender. I guess my thought is, if you don't have fun playing by yourself then why play by yourself? Wouldn't you just play LoL with friends and play another game when you're friends aren't on?
Rioter Comments
: Permanent ban
Why are people still trying to reason with this troll? Seriously? 5 pages of comments trying to explain "not being an ass" to someone who posts his homophobic slurs as proof that he's not that bad!? The slurs he used are even censored out! If you get chat restricted multiple times, post your toxic rants to the boards, and still can't figure out why the community is happy to see a player like you go then there's no learning. If he wants to make a new account and actually reform good for him. But his "evidence in the defense" is actually proof the ban was deserved. If he reads the chats he posted and says to himself "what? I did nothing wrong" and spends a dozen further comments justifying his toxic behavior rather than admitting his toxicity there's no amount of reasoning that's going to fix it.
: Do We Have an ETA on Keys in ARAM?
No keys in co-op games. RIOT has confirmed that co-ops do not count as match made games and no hextech rewards will drop from any bot or custom games.
: Key drops
It will be a lot easier to get the keys once they fix the bug where they're not dropping in ARAMs or TT games. Also, don't think of it as something you want to grind, but a nice reward you get every now and then for playing. When you stop trying to grind them and start thinking of them as just "random loot I get for free very rarely" then it becomes more of a pleasant surprise to get one and less of a disappointment to not get one. Also, there's no way RIOT is going to increase the drops, they introduced the system as a way to get people to spend MORE money in the store, not less. If you're frustrated by the drop rate that just means your more likely to buy them in store, which is what they want anyway.
: Do We Have an ETA on Keys in ARAM?
Probably you were confused by the fact that chests only drop on SR. But clearly: "To unlock your chests, you have a chance to randomly pick up a key each time you win any matchmade game and winning with friends results in finding more keys than going solo."-Original Anoucement. ANY matchmade game. "Keys, perhaps unsurprisingly, open chests. Key fragments will sometimes drop after victory in any matchmade game mode--unlike chests, you can earn keys in ARAM or Twisted Treeline. Three key fragments can be forged into a single key; you can also purchase keys through the store for RP. Key fragments drop a little more frequently when you play with friends!" -Official Hextech Support Page They will drop in ARAM, it's bugged. I just want to know when to expect the fix.
: Do We Have an ETA on Keys in ARAM?
That's not true. RIOT has already said that they are supposed to drop in ARAM and TT. As I said in my OP, they have already confirmed they are supposed to drop but are bugged. I just want to know when the bug is getting fixed. Plz don't respond with answers to questions you know nothing about, thanks.
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MazerRackhem

Level 37 (NA)
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