: When is patch 8.2 going to be released?
This coming week (around 4 days).
: Probably hard to datamine. Remember, PBE change lists are nothing official from Riot, just what Moobeat, Aznbeat and the guys get with their tools. Item probabilities from Klepto is probably not among that.
Yep. They're on the PBE, but hard to datamine. Probably of looting drops dramatically if you've looted multiple items recently, increases dramatically if you haven't looted in a long time. Should have numbers in the patch notes.
roroi (EUW)
: Hey Meddler, Could you please elaborate on the thought process behind the possible Magical Footwear nerfs? What are your takes on the rune? Is the 10 MS too powerful on things like Mobi Boots? Do you feel they come in too early? Is it too much gold value?
Gold value looks too high, at least as a starting problem. Currently testing taking the 50g discount off as a result.
Meddler (NA)
: Damn, that's an impressively fast copy paste given I put this post up literally seconds ago. Gotta respect the effort. Not sure about the change in Malz nerfs off the top of the head, I'll get you an answer once I head in to work later though, plus see if those are bugs we're aware of. Edit: Context below just in case boards is burying the reply.
Malz Q - we were originally looking to nerf his W damage against minions. After testing that we concluded it didn't nerf his pushing power that much, given the rest of his kit. Did make his CSing with them quite a bit more awkward though, which felt really poor. Went with a Q nerf instead as a pretty straight forward way of taking some direct damage out of Malz especially when he's doing well. At a 0.65 AP ratio with AOE silence confident it should still be impactful and satisfying.
Meddler (NA)
: Placeholder: Want to respond to this, but need to do so once I've got into work in a bit and have the time to do so (not a short, simple answer). Edit: Thinking about it, might be long enough and of enough interest it'd be better off in next week's first post (can get it translated for other regions too that way). Will start writing later and see how it's trending then update here if it ends up being a next week thing. Edit2: Yeah, want to make sure I've got all the right context and that we're not just communicating to english speaking players. Expect a bunch of thoughts on top lane Tuesday or Wednesday next week.
Yeah, want to make sure I've got all the right context and that we're not just communicating to english speaking players. Expect a bunch of thoughts on top lane Tuesday or Wednesday next week.
Dratik (NA)
: When will top lane be fun to play again for bruisers? Tanks win nearly every matchup top. If you want to beat a tank, you either play another tank or a ranged bully like GP, Gnar, Teemo, Jayce, etc. Bruisers have no room to breathe unless you're lucky enough to face another bruiser. And even then, how are those bruisers supposed to impact the game when the entire game revolves around bot lane? Top laners have been forced to take TP for multiple seasons, just so they have a _chance_ to impact bot lane. Gone are the days when top lane was skill based, laners took ignite, exhaust, etc and actually FOUGHT their laner. Now, if a bruiser tries to fight a tank or a ranged bully, they simply lose. Bruisers are totally reliant on the jungler to get ahead, but why would the jungler gank top when they can gank bot, get 2 kills, and get first tower+dragon? Bruisers have had the short end of the stick for so long now and it seems like hardly anything is ever done to fix it. ADC's abuse their items, and so those items get nerfed. Tanks have better base damages, more survivability, and more ability to impact the game in teamfights. Tanks also have the ability to splitpush because they have so much AOE. Have you watched LCS? The last time a bruiser was picked and tried to splitpush, the tank Maokai or whatever can just sit under his turret and waveclear. Tanks are encouraged to build tank items, and many get damage for building these tank items. Meanwhile bruisers have to build some damage items to be a threat, but if they do this also have to build some resist items to be able to survive since they are naturally squishy. Not to mention tank items are much less expensive than damage items that bruisers want to build. Pretty much every class has a cheaper build than bruisers right now. Crit is cheap. Lethality is cheap. AP is cheap. Defensive items are cheap. Meanwhile a bruiser that needs some combo of Titanic, Triforce or Sterak's to get their spike has to spend several hundred more gold than other classes to get their items. Where are bruisers supposed to be strong? Early? Mid? Late? Right now they don't seem to be strong in any situation. They get beaten in lane, they have less impact in the mid game than tanks and assassins, and late game they're usually relegated to splitpushing because every tank is more useful in teamfights than them. I really would like to know what Riot are doing to remedy this situation, if they are doing anything at all. The top performing champions are all tanks or champions that bully melees. That should say something about the state of bruisers.
Placeholder: Want to respond to this, but need to do so once I've got into work in a bit and have the time to do so (not a short, simple answer). Edit: Thinking about it, might be long enough and of enough interest it'd be better off in next week's first post (can get it translated for other regions too that way). Will start writing later and see how it's trending then update here if it ends up being a next week thing. Edit2: Yeah, want to make sure I've got all the right context and that we're not just communicating to english speaking players. Expect a bunch of thoughts on top lane Tuesday or Wednesday next week.
Elinz (NA)
: Hi Meddler!~First of all YAY CAITLYN BUFFS! lol, but i have a quick question(s), is there any information regarding champions that have yet to get new skins and are in need of them? Taliyah is my gurl and i'm kinda scared and need comfort that she'll see some skin love ;-; (aside from the SSG stuff) ALSO side question Whats going on with Jinx i heard she was getting buffed? or did that already happen orrr? btw Illaoi is super scary rn so that's a thing heh... ;-;
Skins - I don't work with the folks who work on skins much, so that's not something I can talk about generally sorry. Jinx - Some buffs in 8.2, likely paired with some compensatory nerfs in other places so she doesn't go too nuts. Illaoi - Yep, she's pretty impactful and getting a lot of play at present. Having said that you give up a lot of tools by picking someone like Illaoi instead of champs with more mobility and/or CC, so so far at least she doesn't seem too overbearing overall (not that it feels that way when you're getting ulted of course).
: {{champion:67}} {{champion:75}} ?? High pick rate, high winrate, high ban rate.... used to recquier hard scaling... but aren't even weak during laning phase.
Vayne has nerfs in 8.2. Nasus wise a lot of his power's coming from Klepto being too dominant, particularly in melee/melee match ups who really want the sustain and/or can proc if reliably. We've got Klepto changes in 8.2 as well that should bring down the amount of gold/items best case users (Ez and GP included) get from it noticeably.
beany (NA)
: Any thoughts on the strength of stopwatch rune? And last I saw viktor buffs targeted his shield uptime (but at the same time made it counter intuitive to use both damage instances of siphon power in quick succession). Are there any other changes planned for him?
Stopwatch - Probably is too strong, single use mitigates a lot of the issues from that though at least. Suspect we'll pull a bit of power from it, with the gold contribution towards Zhonya's, GA, Stoneplate being a likely target. Think some of the issue is that it's often paired with Magical Footwear, so trending somewhat towards tapping that down first (hit part of the combo, then if needed look at the other as well). Viktor - Last I heard we were going to test other buffs instead of the shield change. Possible we go back to it, looking to see what might be a better fit though.
: Hey Meddler, it's been a long time since it was last mentioned (I think) but is there any news on how the Ohmwrecker experiments are faring? I think someone wanted to try out Demolish on it?
Still going to try a Demolish effect on Ohmwrecker sometime, though would need a bunch of testing before we talked about whether to ship it or not of course.
Tourna (EUW)
: On the subject on counterplay how do you feel about the current state of shields or shielding in general? From what I see a lot of people generally agree that shielding feels too abundant at the moment either to low cd's or too much shields, whats your opinion on the matter?
I think some form of outlet item to shield stacking would be valuable. We've been working on one on and off as mentioned a while back, it hasn't been a priority compared to getting other stuff sorted out though (pre-season follow up in particular). Still expecting we'll do so in the earlier part of this year, priority's been lower though given 'people don't die fast enough' hasn't generally been the prevailing sentiment (with the exception of some specific tanks in particular).
: Why the Jarvan nerfs? That seems completely out of left field since he seems to be an okay spot, though I'm not really knowledgeable about his stats. I've seen him being picked more, but nothing compared to Warwick or even Morgana jungle.
Our take is that Jarvan's pretty much always the right choice in the jungle at present, given combination of his numerical power and range of tools/flexibility he brings (engage, early power, duels fairly well, can burst, lot of build flexibility, disengage etc). Play rate by contrast isn't something we use as an indicator of whether or not a champ should be buffed or nerfed (though it can be a good indicator that a champion should be investigated). Champs with high play rates can still need buffs (fun and cool themes so people play them regardless even if they're weak). Champs with low play rates can be too strong (niche or poor theme, kit not so fun, still overpowered when picked even if less people do so because most people don't pick off power alone)..
: Why the nerfs on Kat? She only stomps in plat under, any higher and she's only played by one tricks because people actually understand how to play against her.
We think Kat's a bit too strong across a range of MMR bands, including above Plat, and including when played by people with only moderate amounts of experience on her. It's not just one tricks with 100s of games doing well. Even if that wasn't the case and she was just stomping plat and under we'd still probably look at her. We can't balance purely for the few % of the playerbase above plat, even if that's where a lot of our balance focus is. We would want to do work on them to even out their performance by MMR more, make them less pubstompy for example and if needs be more functional in higher skill bands, wouldn't want to just ignore the issue though.
: Hey Meddler would you know if scruffy and Statikk are planning another blog post update on their thoughts on the champs of 2017 and updated subclasses
I'd expect Scruffy to put a blog about the champs of 2017 together at some point, though the next champion related blog to come out should be another roadmap one from Reav3. No plans to update subclasses at present, we haven't changed thinking much there. Imagine we'll do so again of course, but likely not for quite a while.
: About stuff on the PBE that doesn't ship, is there anything in the current cycle that won't or isn't likely to be in 8.2?
I think everything on PBE should be shipping in 8.2 at this point, though we did have to pull the vision score on scoreboard stuff out a few days ago due to some bugs (that'll go into 8.3). It's more likely there'll be stuff that doesn't ship until the next patch during small patches (so 8.3, 8.5, 8.7 etc).
: Still nothing about the buisers keystone??
Still being worked on. We want to make something that's a good choice on bruisers but not solely for them. Version we've been testing however looks like it'd be too generically good on most champs though, so we'll need to take another pass at it, tailor it somewhat more towards champs who need sustained damage and are at least somewhat tanky.
: On the subject of counterplay, how do you think the azir rework landed? I'm a big fan of that champion and wanna know if it's gonna be safe to play him without him getting nerfed back down to being really weak again
I think it helped, in particular giving some champs better ways to lane effectively against it. I'm not sure if it went far enough necessarily though, could be we've just got the tuning off, but a well played Azir's still pretty tough to deal with.
: Hey Meddler, why did you guys hit the ratio on Malzahar Q? Last time you said you were looking to reduce the damage his Voidlings do to minions so he shoves less hard, hitting Q ratio, while hurting his waveclear also hurts his ability to poke late game, is this a thing you also want to hit? Also wanted to share some Malzahar gameplay bugs since when I posted them on Bug Reports section some patches ago I got no response: - Malzahar tether damage will still go through even if Malzahar dies or interrupts the channel (probably stops if you break the intended maximum tether range?) - Malzahar Voidlings are unaffected by the Ravenous Hunter rune, Heimerdinger and Zyra plants heal them so it seems a bug that Malzahar Voidlings don't heal him
Damn, that's an impressively fast copy paste given I put this post up literally seconds ago. Gotta respect the effort. Not sure about the change in Malz nerfs off the top of the head, I'll get you an answer once I head in to work later though, plus see if those are bugs we're aware of. Edit: Context below just in case boards is burying the reply.
  Rioter Comments
: If you could, would you design 1 more champion by yourself? If so, what type of champion it would be? Where's Morello at? I convinced myself that he went to work on some secret Riot Games project but after so many years I don't even know if he exists anymore. I loved Malphite for years after long break from League I noticed that Ornn skillset feels like reworked Malphite. Is it because there is something planned for Malph in the future or it was just pure coincidence?
I love my current job, if I was to do another champion I'd probably want to work on a support though. It's both the position I usually enjoy the most and one where I think's got a lot of design space open, in terms of the interesting stuff you could put on a kit. Morello is indeed on a secret R&D project. He's still moderately active on Twitter too from memory, though for understandable reasons doesn't talk about what he's currently working on. Plans for Malph didn't influence Ornn's development.
: Hi again Meddler. Can Riot share a little more of information about the Bruiser-related keystone mentioned in the 01/10 quick gameplay thoughs that's currently in internal testing? A bit of information like how it works (stacks, 3 hit, instant effect) or which tree it will go? Thanks for any response. > [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=K9zRyuEe,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2018-01-10T16:20:49.656+0000) > > New keystone went into internal testing yesterday. I haven't played it myself yet, like it on paper though. If that goes well should be able to at least share tooltips within a couple of weeks (would take longer than that to get into a patch given need to build art for it). It that doesn't go well timing's uncertain.
Nothing final yet, currently though we're looking at something that: * Ramps in offensive output over time * Is at least somewhat dependent on being tanky * Could arguably go in either Resolve or Precision, though is more likely to go in Resolve (push builds towards getting a bit more survivability in them, rather than pushing towards damage as primary style as often) Could all change depending on testing though.
Fasmodey (EUW)
: Would you consider him nerf worthy though? Just asking your individual opinion, through statistics, observation and your gameplay experience.
Not personally, though certainly much closer to too strong than too weak.
: if those don't also come with some kind of compensatory nerfs then you basically just made him better everywhere.
We think he's too weak in general too, so that's part of the goal. Not yet sure if the magnitude of the buff is correct though.
Haski (NA)
: Any new info on the new keystone being introduced/considered? :)
Still testing the one mentioned last week.
Haski (NA)
: any nerfs to eve coming up?
Nerfs in 8.2 to her E damage. We think she's strong already and buffing Runic Echoes will compound that.
iahim98 (EUNE)
: Hey meddler, what are your thoughts on Azir, is he in a ok spot after the last nerfs? Also any plans for sudden impact?
Azir - I suspect he's too strong, not sure about the team's thoughts on him though. Expect he'll be one of the ones discussed in the next planning session. No current plans for sudden impact.
Chiken138 (EUW)
: did u finalisize Volibear buffs or are u still testing ?
Still testing. Mini knockback on E has shown some promise, potentially not enough though so also looking at other changes. Won't be in 8.2, getting closer though.
: Hi Meddler! Some time ago you said a team was working on ability pics. Can we expect more than those for Nunu, Rene, Amumu and Mundo? ^^
We'll do some more sometime this year, not sure when though yet beyond 'more in 2018'.
: Any changes on fiddlesticks? he seems so forgotten, he barely does any damage he is so bad at jungle atm... i know that he really needs a VGU, but could you do some buffs so he is decent in jungle? his clear is so bad and his ganks are just terrible atm.
Buffs for Fiddle are likely once we've buffed Runic Echoes and seen how much more he needs to jungle reasonably.
: Multiple weeks ago we were told (by you) that we would get reasoning on why Heimerdinger RQ was being gutted by half (less damage at max than before at one). No one has posted about it or numbers or anything of the sort. Why promise something and never come back to it?
We felt Heimer was overperforming, including at high Elo where traditionally he's been weak. Some of that was changing state of the game, some of it likely Stopwatch removing some of his early game weakness in some situations. Our conclusion was that RQ damage made it excessively hard to all in him in lane, even in situations where that should be an appropriate play. We felt we had to take a lot of damage out of the beam in order to get a meaningful impact there and so far at least it doesn't look like we've hit Heimer too hard.
Foucz (EUNE)
: {{champion:142}} Thoughts on zoe after nerfs ? Also what happened to {{champion:157}} update you guys were talking about here : https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/06/ask-riot-yasuo-gets-banned/ ?
We're suspicious Zoe's still not giving sufficient telegraph on Q+R, not sure if we'll make further changes though. No plans for a Yasuo small update at this point, combination of changing state of the game and some small work seem to have put him in a pretty stable state. Putting time into other higher priority champs instead as a result.
Chess435 (NA)
: A lot of times I'll notice these threads a few hours after the fact, is it still worth commenting later in the day, or will it just be missed?
In terms of discussion these threads seem to be pretty active for about a day. If you're looking to catch me specifically, I'll generally check back in sometime in the afternoon and/or evening. Most of the time I put aside though's in the morning while they're newer.
: Don't know if it's the right place to ask, but have you guys considered bringing back the twin ghosts item? With some decent tuning it might turn into a real viable item, given the fact that most mages are building Frost queens right now and it's getting "removed" soon.
We'll be bringing it back in some form soon.
: This is probably outside your wheelhouse a bit, but is there any team at Riot that has ownership over the new player experience? The tutorial seems to languish in a rather outdated state, for example, and there's some pretty basic parts of gameplay that you can't learn at all by playing against bots: bots don't gank, jungle, go for dragon or baron, use vision, etc. (Did anyone teach Ryze bot that his ult got reworked yet, by the way?) Obviously it makes perfect sense that you (Riot) would devote most resources to the things that are important to the existing playerbase, but I have to presume that bringing in new players is important as well to sustain the playerbase in the long term, let alone grow it. Could you give any insight on whether there's any team focused on this sort of thing, and maybe see if some of those people might drop in on the boards or Reddit at some point to give some insight into what they're working on?
We've got some people who'll be looking at the new player experience this year. That work's still in the planning stages, so can't share any details yet and it'll be quite a while before most of it goes out. I'm sure we'll talk about various bits of work once we're clearer on what we're doing. Talking about new player stuff can be a bit different to most topics though because the audience you're most interested in (people who haven't played at all yet, or have only just started) generally aren't found on a game's forums or other community sites as much. Feedback that does crop up is sometimes more from other types of player with an interest in the same space (e.g. smurfs, or people wanting to make 1 trick accounts). That's no reason not to talk of course, but it changes how some feedback gets interpreted.
: Is it possible that you guys could make it so pinging Kayn's portrait when he has a transformation ready could ping to his team that he has it ready and/or how much time the other has left? There's times when I really wanna get back to base to transform but my team is insisting on forcing fights and I can't afford to leave them.
We'll give that a look. Not sure personally how easy it would be to hook the existing ping system up to that portrait (code's not my thing). Seems like a good use case to support though that we should at least check out.
Fasmodey (EUW)
: Xerath lost a bit power due to Sorcery rune nerfs. Do you still plan to nerf him? LCK doesn't ban or pick him anymore.
Xerath hasn't cropped up in balance talks for a while. We've got our 8.3 planning session coming up soon though, will let you folks know if he's back on the radar at all there.
: on a scale of 1 to 10, how birb is he?
> [{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=5AwuwIFf,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2018-01-16T16:32:35.113+0000) > > on a scale of 1 to 10, how birb is he? Free birb.
: > [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=5AwuwIFf,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-01-16T16:26:50.704+0000) > > Intent here is to move power away from levels so that he can duo lane more effectively again. We think right now he's too pulled towards solo laning by both levels (solo XP) and items (non crit). can i expect a reduction to his Q ad scaling and adding a crit chance scaling?
From memory we're testing passive damage starting a bit higher (50-60%, instead of 40-60%) so levels matter less in that regard, plus second shot crit damage at 75% instead of 50%. Those aren't final changes necessarily, but an example of the sorts of things we're looking at for him.
: Would you say you will do Voice Over Updates on champions with... an OK voice over right now? Would you say that?
I'd be super sad if a champion with an OK voice no longer had an OK voice. That would not be OK. I don't believe we've got any plans for VO changes to him, at least not at present, and I'm confident even if we did we'd be keeping his personality the same.
: > [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=5AwuwIFf,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-01-16T16:13:54.804+0000) > > Hi folks, > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > **Usual Disclaimers** > > > > These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > **Partial Updates in 2018** > > Something we're going to be doing a bit more of this year is updating a single element on a champion that's not up to the standard of that character as a whole. We've been doing that for quite a while with gameplay and things like updating old loading screen art. We're looking to do more of it for other stuff as well too though. > > > > First up, probably in 8.3, will be new visual effects for Cho'gath. Cho's base VFX are really rough. His model's showing its age somewhat too, but not to the extent his spells are. We're not expecting we'll do a VGU on him for quite a while, so addressing his spells in the meantime makes sense. > > > > Not all of these projects will be visual. Our next target after that's likely to be redoing the VO for a champ whose voice over is pretty lacking relative to their other elements. More details on that soonish, all going according to plan. > This is pretty exciting to me, do you think it will ever make sense to update the model of a character without doing gameplay or is that too expensive/time consuming to make any sense? I'm thinking of someone like udyr maybe
Model only updates might happen, particularly depending on your definition of what model only means. If a champion's model needs work, but their animations and rig (skeleton that the animations/model are built on) are good, then replacing the model's not too bad a task. We did that with Maokai a couple of years back for example and I think the result looks pretty good (if you've never seen it, worth looking up old Maokai). Some champs on the other hand have really poor animations/rigs, so even if they don't need other work replacing just the model's not an option. We can still do texture work on them (changing what's drawn onto the model), but there are limits to how much that can improve things and we've hit most of the texture opportunities already at this point.
Octahedron (EUNE)
: Hello Meddler Any update on Gragas? You guys tested E Flash combo removal [you were talking about](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/JELGkanE-quick-gameplay-thoughts-august-25?comment=00380000) few months ago or maybe you did other tests or have other plans? Also what are your thoughts on his current state (and that this state seems to reoccur every year since his rework)?
Still want to look more into whether we should take that combo out. Not the right time to do so though, given he's on the weak side right now. Wouldn't make any changes to him until we see where Runic Echoes changes land at the least and how that impacts him. Hoping to not put so much power back into him that he goes back to competitive pick/ban either, which is one of the reasons we haven't rushed to buff him.
: Any updates on Swain? I won't take "soon" for an answer {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
> [{quoted}](name=Duh Penetration,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=5AwuwIFf,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-01-16T16:24:19.928+0000) > > Any updates on Swain? I won't take "soon" for an answer Soon. Feel free not to take it.
: Hey meddler, good morning (just wake up) why equalize Lucian between mid and bot? Lucian is suppose to be a lane dominant adc if you equalize that for both mid and bot in the long run he will get picked in the mid lane which has just led to him being nerfed to the point it is a joke as an adc {{champion:236}} {{item:3070}}
Intent here is to move power away from levels so that he can duo lane more effectively again. We think right now he's too pulled towards solo laning by both levels (solo XP) and items (non crit).
  Rioter Comments
ssamiaa (EUW)
: Regarding the runic echo buff revert
Yep, we're considering a different approach. Looking for one that helps out struggling Runic Echoes users more than it does AP champs who already do well in the jungle. One option we're considering is amount of mana restored as a result, given the strong performers generally aren't very mana limited already.
: Yow meddler! Any info about Wards tab yet and public chat? And are you in favor of making voice chat be accessible not only in the lobby/ with friends but with strangers too( i think chatting with strangers is the no. goal of VC for a good communication imo) ? Public Chat suggestions: How about adding a filter if you add a public chat, like **close city** - public chat within your area/city/town, **By region/state/country** - your specific region/state/country and **national public chat** - the whole server chat. Hope for a reply and advance ty.
Not sure on wards, public chat, voice chat sorry. My job's primarily about gameplay during the game, so I can't speak usefully enough to features like those. I'll pass your suggestions on though.
DDJKB (EUW)
: The vision score as it is on the PBE seems misplaced and prone to cause confusion. I think a different font and size and position would be beneficial.
Which version are you seeing on PBE right now, the one next to the CS score or the one by/over the trinket?
orrvaa (EUNE)
: won't it be a problem to make the enemies see your vision score?, they could predict if you have wards or used them while early game
Plan is to make it so you only see your team's vision score once it's on the scoreboard like that. Vision score is a somewhat delayed calculation as well though, so it's not actually very useful when trying to predict if someone warded really recently.
: I hope you still keep whatever the item active is searchable with "spooky ghosts" in the shop.
: What are your thoughts on Leona nowadays? Think you got her into a more decent spot or still got your eye on her?
Strong, but Aftershock changes look like the better thing to hit than her directly (same deal, at least for now, as with Blitz and Alistar).
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