Hige (NA)
: The pirate one is incredible but... that's swain? the heavily seasoned strategist warlock? it looks more like a pirate of the Caribbean knock off who spends more time at the gym than sailing OR strategizing OR warlock-ing
More of the art team turning characters into chipndales dancers.. its almost like their art team employs an abnormally high number of homosexuals.
: > And Garen is not mechanically simple where does this myth come from? It's a fact that 99% of the people can agree on but you seem to be super biased about it. Are there things that Garen does and can show some skill? Yes you're right and you gave examples. But COMPARED to the other 100+ champs in the game, what skill expression he has is alot lower. You also seem to be biased about Riven. You should search for "Riven Fast Combo" on Youtube and see if you can reproduce the animation cancel detailed in there(which cuts her animation time by a little but but needs 3 precise inputs every 1 second). THIS, is an example of something that's actually mechanically hard. Nothing Garen has comes even close to it. It's not "a step up but not much". Mechanically speaking Riven is literally orders of magnitudes harder. My guess is that you are not even aware of what her animation-cancel really requires of you to do. Just try it yourself and you'll find it SUPER HARD.
>its an (opinion) 99% of the people can agree on... Fixed that for you. Take a high level Riven or Yas main and see how well they can make their plays on a simple character like Garen. They won't, they won't have the tools to do so. Somewhere in this games lifespan, riot convinced players that having 2x the mobility and options of other characters in the game was somehow "high skill cap". because you may accidentally trip over all your outplay buttons. Garen has a simple kit in vacuum, but applying that simple kit effectively within the game is far more difficult then people let on, and why people quickly abandon Garen for characters with more reliable (ironic I know) toolsets for playmaking. Animation canceling is not hard, perhaps it is for people who are brand new to mobas, but for those of us who cut our teeth in Dota, nothing in this game stands close to playing Chen, Invoker, or Dryad. Even Malfurion.
: Why not just rework the champion entirely his kit sucks and he is so linear and boring to play why would you even pick him in the first place ?
Having a character who's kit is simple and attempting to do your job with that character is a good exercise in fundamentals. The difference between that Garen who's always kited and that Garen that always seems to kill your key teammate is often the result of better positiouing/foresight/macro play before a teamfight. There's a place for that kind of character for practice purposes, and while garen is easy to play mechanically, you will find he often has a much harder time actually being productive for his team.
Kloqdq (NA)
: Alright let me try and explain the issue with this. I see this argument a lot on the boards "Riot stop on the new stuff and get working n balance". First, Riot can't afford to simply hold on making new content. As a business, every employee, decision, etc plays into Riot's overhang. Overhang is basically how much money Riot has invested into their business before they start making a profit. If Riot were to suddenly stop making champions for however long it would take to make the game balanced, they would have staff members and departments that would be not making any money for Riot. With less profits, they would kind of screw over everyone there and it would likely lead to cuts. That's apart of why the Rune update is partly rough for Riot because they have multiple teams working on them that could otherwise working on something else that could lead to potential profit gains. Riot is a business after all and they do need to make money. Secondly, a perfect state of balance will frankly never be possible. No matter the game, almost always, there is some powerful/dominate ability, power, game plan, meta, etc. that players will fine and abuse. Consistent changes of course affect this positively and negatively but Riot can't just stop making changes to focus on balance. The chase for the perfect game balance will never happen and it's best to just make sure everything works as best as it can and that nothing is overbearing. Ardent is finally getting it's hardest nerf yet for example. Even then, other things will just raise back up. That's what happens 90% of the time. Third, there is simply too many working parts to achieve perfect balance. League has 140 champions, 3 maps, numerous items, variety of roles, classes, and player skills. The sheer amount of content would lead balance to be a very difficult thing to work towards because whenever one end of the scale is brought down, another raises, kind of going back to my prior point. Then you also need to account for future content, something Riot still needs to work on. Every new change will effect others and that will of course lead to new things becoming OPs. For example, something like Overwatch can get over this fine because Overwatch has waaaay fewer working parts. They can focus their balance a lot easier because there is less overall pieces to consider while also having a lot more open space until they add characters. Overall, I don't believe by simply halting or slowing down champion teams that we could suddenly achieve balance. The only true way something like that could happen is if we were stopping active development. However, since League is a ongoing game, that drive towards perfect balance is unlikely to ever happen.
Dota stands in stark defiance of just about every point you currently make. Slower character rollout, more items with more uses, better character representation at majors, steady buffing and reworking on existing characters, all while not charging for new characters. its almost like if you made more then 30 characters playable at any given time you'll sell more items related to characters!
Awhegark (NA)
: Next Champion will Introduce Sleep Crowd Control.
Time for Rito to rip off banes kit? Sounds about right, considering the difference in quality between worlds and TI. Better see what else they can nick to keep the game afloat. ;^)
: See here's the thing I don't understand though. If Champion design is the problem, what is the solution? Create more Master Yi's who don't have any Utility but damage? The reason we have mobility is so they're is more than one way to deal with an enemy than "Kill them first". Perhaps there is a fine line we can hit, but the reason slows are plentiful is because they allow power and skill expression. "Hit this, and get rewarded with sticking to your enemy". Take away the slow, and you need to pump more power into it elsewhere, into defense steroids, damage, mobility, something so they can compete with people. This in turns creates shorter trades, because you require less effort to do something effectively. I also think there is a small amount of "feeling", that comes with hitting and ability and watching them get slowed/stunned as well. A real "OOMPH", that your spell is so powerful, it staggers your opponent. Final point I want to ask though, which Champions do you feel have excessive mobility that isn't required for their kit/class? Kayn is an assassin, and needs to be slippery. Ornn needs a way to engage 1v1s and close gaps in teamfights, that isn't heavily telegraphed. Camille is a diver, Ivern's a wierd one, Rakan is meant to be an aggressive flashy support. In your opinion, which few of our champions/reworks have "Tacked on" mobility?
its almost like Riot has designed themselves into a corner where combating the mobility creep the playerbase has been complaining about since before S1 would require mass changes to mobile champions that their bloated and simple minded development staff could never come out with in a timely manner, and the games already in the midst of its declining spin {{sticker:garen-swing}}
: But tear is so good on Veig :v
can't agree. Viegar needs stats now, not later. If you're concerned about your regen you should pick up {{item:3165}} or go right to your {{item:3285}} to go for murder
awdaf (NA)
: Please give us an option to vote to disband lobby so we don't have to dodge.
"Let us vote to leave the game before it starts if someone doesn't pick one of the toolbox 20"
: Really? Lets look this up... https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/played https://www.op.gg/statistics/champion/ * Dota2 has a champion with a 1.17% pickrate (Chen) and League has a champion with a .61% pickrate (Udyr). * Dota2 has a champion with a 33.7% pickrate (Pudge) and League has a champion with a 29.15% pickrate (Thresh) * Dota2 has a champion with a 36% winrate (Io) and League has a champion with a 41.59% winrate (Ryze) * Dota2 has a champion with a 56.75% winrate (Zeus) and League has a champion with a 53.83% winrate (Malz). TL;DR - Dota2 is worse in terms of balance for high pickrate, high winrate, and low winrate champions. League is worse for low pickrate champions.
Thank goodness none of those things impact character viability rate at the high level. You know, that thing League is desperately pushing as hard as it can, removing its normal stats, pushing a fucking weekly gaming league year round. etc. Its almost like its inferior to Dota at what it sets out to do. I also take a moment to point out your chen example. Where chen is a low pickrate because is an enormously micromanagement heavy hero that requires a high level of multitasking and thus appeals to a niche, and still enjoys a higher pick rate then one of the games most simple champions in Udyr.
: Your top 3 '' wtf why did rito make him ? '' champions ?
{{champion:412}} - Skill Creeps prophet and herald. {{champion:68}} - The first champion riot released who actually was rewarded for spamming his resourceless short cooldown skills. The herald of many balance headaches to follow. {{champion:82}} - the rework no one asked for, in the lane no one wanted.
: How is Protobelt on Blitzcrank?
if you want to run people down, go Glory, if you want damage for your toplane crank to murder people, go triforce.
: uhmmm about the syndra changes on the PBE...
: Make a votekick in champ select in order to get rid of trolls
I read this as "riot please let us votekick people who play anything but the toolbox 20."
Eggbread (NA)
: While I Enjoy The More Diverse Pool, I Think This Is a Lesson To All
Dota 2 is older and its viability rates on heroes literally makes this game look like a joke thats still in beta. Age of the game is not an excuse for being slow to make changes and leaving large portions of the cast on the bench for extended periods.
Ralanr (NA)
: Something that bothers me about Rengar's bonetooth necklace and his desire to hunt worthy prey.
TL;DR - Give Rengar the villain mechanic and rename it. Let him stack for killing the villain, he's a jungler who will roam to make use of it anyway. Give garen something that isn't unreliable and retarded.
: The difference is the complexity and difficulty of the champion. Singed and Nunu are relatively simple, with play patterns that are relatively annoying, and down right frustrating when too strong. While Graves is undoubtedly annoying when strong, he at least is putting himself near you to acheive his goal.
The difference is how well the champion sells. Champions who do not move skins are nerfed quickly. champions who make that sweet dollar dollar cheddah cheddah get passes. Riot will lie to your face about balancing around money... but its just that. A bold faced lie.
Raoul (EUW)
: Everyone: "OMG, Kayn is so bad, especially Shadow Assassin, so useless..."
His kits pretty much designed from the ground up to either be useless or an overbearing balance nightmare with no middle ground, like most of riots work.
: There is no excuse for using racism in game
friendly reminder that making you post a butthurt message on the forums about it and prove how rattled you are by someone you will likely never interact with again who knows nothing about you saying something on the internet is exactly what he wanted. You only validate his behavior in his eyes. Thick skin. Apply it.
GGLineaR (NA)
: Yo. Riot enough with the mastery censoring
Reminder Riots so unable to do anything about stats sites letting you peek in at your enemies masteries/runes that they have to language barrier something that you should only be able to see yourself. Why not just let us look up all details of the character from within the client while in the game lobby at this point?
Knalxz (NA)
: That one teammate who didn't lose lane and is saving your game.
too bad you guys started afking and swearing at him when he didn't vote to surrender at 15 minutes.
Awoof (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=JamesTheMage15,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cFI35MVs,comment-id=001f,timestamp=2017-07-21T13:45:27.667+0000) > > Where are our AP amplifiers? {{champion:117}} Removed.
Deathfire Grasp, never forget. Archmage Garen misses you.
: Counterplay is something you as a champion can do, for instance teemo blinding nasus q. Or dodging. Or for a different kind of example with kled, if you see him use W (his passive, that he cant control) thats a good time to fight him. Counterbuild is items.
"Counterplay" is a created buzzword like "Toxic" or "Game flow" which means whatever riot needs it to mean to spin whatever they need to. Counterbuild is counterplay within the game itself. You generally counterthings you can not influence through mechanics "Adc auto attack damage, point and click nuke/cc" by item building. People get so hung up on nitpicking terminology that they lose track of the original gripe, which is exactly what a company like riot wants the community doing, else we might take a look at the quality and quantify of content they're currently putting out compared to something like, say, Dota, and wonder why exactly we continue to give them money to send to china.
: Yeah but there's no right answer, so you get humor.
Riot can't make you rebuy those reworked champions, so they gotta keep cranking out the bloated overpowered kits to keep you spending them cyberbux. Also a "work at your own pace" office environment, which is basically how you ruin a good product ( and its showing )
: >The right response would've been to nerf the reflect and compensate by having it reduce on-hit healing by a reasonably complementary amount. I agree. And that's the direction they are going with the AS slow and Grevious wounds. It is much healthier for the game than the previous approach of "do more damage." Did they get the numbers on the first try? Probably not. Ignoring the numbers, their track record isn't great for new releases. (>_>)
IT corrects the gameplay imbalance of ADC's actually having targets they shouldn't attack first and have to play around. Kind of like how Blitzcrank hook doesn't pull initiatiors and he doesn't have to play around them. Or casters have to play around spellshield Don't worry tho, the Diver update is coming, so once tanks are again relegated to the bench and bruisers are king once more, we'll get our specialty bruisers updated so they can perform the assassination role correctly.
: She is picked every season because she doesnt depend on the meta to be viable. That is good champion design. Out of these 7 seasons, she was the no1 midlaner in just 2 seasons (season 2 and season 3 (together with gragas)), every other time she was just a safe pick, not even ban material. Compare that to Lee who is also there every year but he controls everything and forces the meta to adjust to him, that is bad champion design. Another reason she is a good pick is because in organized teamplay its much easier to hit your Ori ult using your teammates as ball delivery system, but even then the pros fuck it up often. Imagine how hard it is to fully utilize it when you are an amateur then... Stop judging based on pro play and look at your fucking games. If you see an Ori get jumped on by (prepare yourself this will be long) {{champion:266}} {{champion:103}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:32}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:9}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:120}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:85}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:127}} {{champion:54}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:57}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:33}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:35}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:29}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:19}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:154}} {{champion:238}} she will fucking die. Easily. Oh look its just a HALF THE FUCKING ROSTER. If you cant properly engage on an immobile mage then either she is super well protected or you cant coordinate/suck at the game. How does it make her broken if she is super well defended or you failed at your task or you didnt pick an appropriate champion to kill her?? She has a very low self peel, less than many ADCs. I dont see how that makes her a problem.
Having no weak lanes and always being a good choice is generally considered OP champion design. "She doesn't rely on the meta to be strong" just means she is strong. Likely too strong since she's been played in every worlds since her creation and in the finals of every worlds but one since S2. Trying to defend this as a "balanced" champion is silly. more-so when characters like Malz are brutally reworked into balance and viability headaches for matching up well against Zed for one season.
Lakrosin (NA)
: Less than 50% winrate. OP NERF. I swear, people whine about anything. What is next? Udyr? Volibear? Pre-rework Urgot? Aatrox? {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}}
She's been used in every worlds since her creation. That in itself is cause for concern. Few if any other champions have enjoyed this run of viablility at the high level since season 2. Just saiyan.
Meddler (NA)
: I think it's pretty likely that it, or a very similar spell, ends up on a kit at some point. Completely agree it's a sweet ability, just gotta get it onto the right champ.
I never understood this. The pull into fear bomb seems counterproductive to what urgot wants as this short ranged bruiser champion with cigargun legs. Wouldn't it make more sense to pull urgot to the target and execute him to fearbomb the team around them and better position him for continued fighting?
: An ADC mains view on supports vs "supports"
That would require an ADC to thank their support though, instead of being self centered douches.
: Little Yordle from Demacia with pig tails and a hammer who is tough and tanky. Anyone would know that they were the same. Besides, do you really want old poppy back?
Actually, Poppy was a megling, before the lore department got lazy and decided to make every short character in this game a magical fairy pixie furry. https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcStEF4apENKe0m9hl67tM8Q7kzNHFoYGZ_6LMiXXUd3webUdV2a
: Randuins feels so worthless
reminder the only tanks in the meta right now are tanks with reworked high damage values bordering on that of bruisers/juggs, because defensive stats are so useless right now and damage is king.
abdul569 (EUW)
: Scuttle needs a buff icon to show how many skillshots have missed her
Scuttle should just flash mastery 7 every time a skillshot misses her
: I always try to win. But I don't always play meta.
my favorite part of this game is taking toplane blitzcrank, beating the top laner by 20 cs and 2 kills, and then hearing about how I'm the reason we lost from my 3 and 14 combined bot lane.
RK N0va (NA)
: The ones that get me are the players who lack any resilience. It's like touching a charred piece of paper, watching it break apart into a million pieces and scatter everywhere. "gg, I'm done", says the person in _lane - x_ when the score is tied and it's only 12 min in; but _they died_, so it's gg. Don't get me wrong, what you described can be irritating as well, but at least in your case, they still express the will to keep playing. I'm still running into games where players want to be handed a free win, or quit.
Unfortunately in adding early surrender riot just vindicated people who give up early in the game, suggesting their behavior is somehow justified in a team game, and now you get to look forward to a surrender vote being shot down and a guy afking at the 15 minute mark rather then the 20 minute mark. If anything they should be harsher on this sort of people. Believe in throws idiots, they believe in you, else how would we have gotten this far behind in the first place? {{sticker:zombie-brand-clap}}
: So.. Malz, Kog, Rek, Kind have all gotten "fixed" and soon Leblanc.. Context on Rengar? Please?
Malz will only be "Fixed" when they accept his rework is ultimately a failure and revert him to what he was. His only crime was matching up well vs the melee assassin midlaner meta that was running roughshot over the game at the time, and since Riot balances around their LC$ big plays they tried to break his knees just like they did Veigar, but fucked up and sent him into bot lane instead.
: good luck getting boards to agree with reworking a "Beginner champ" lol {{champion:86}} {{champion:106}} are too brain dead to ever be able to be good in elos that matter. even for stat-check characters they're stupidly simple {{champion:268}} is on the other extreme, he takes a lot of skill but people who master him basically shut down anyone else for free. he's not particularly high counterplay, either, thanks to his safety, range, speed and mobility. tbh I would say Aurelion falls in this group too but he has the issue of having some of the hardest counters in the game both should be brought into line
> are too brain dead to ever be able to be good in elos that matter. even for stat-check characters they're stupidly simple An argument can be made thats its actually harder to be effective with these "simple" champs compared to characters with more loaded kits and mobility due to the limitations of your binary kits. Part of the reason this game's character selection is so limited is that characters are not balanced in a vacuum. Something that they need to just nick wholesale from Dota. Riot is not smarter then valve/chilltoad no matter how much they want to pat themselves on the back for being the george lucas to this accidental star wars. Every revision they make just makes it worse.
: There are 4 types of champions
I have a particular dislike for rumble because he was the first resource lesschampion that was rewarded for mashing out his low cooldown manaless skills in lane. With the "penalty" of turning into an all in right clicker for capping, which didn't even cancel the flamespitter use.
: Does Darius lose any melee matchup?
all these shadey ass counters and no one lists the actual hard counter. {{champion:2}}
Rock MD (NA)
: Orianna is one of, if not the most contested mages this patch.
Ori's been picked at every worlds since her creation, this isn't a surprise.
Croanin (NA)
: Garen Really a Juggernaut?
Garen builds better as an assassin, since they felt the need to nerf his Q mobility and Silence duration during his rework you basically have a 1.5 second window to get anything done in a teamfight. Then you look busy. Darius heals, deals better sustained damage, and has better CC and stickiness then Garen, all while having a stranger laning phase and late game. Not much point to playing him really.
: >Why does Orianna need an autoatack damage booster? Because Xypherous wanted to make a champion that didn't fall into the "shoot all abilities and then do nothing" pattern that he dislikes in a lot of combo mages. Given that he also wanted to make her a generally mid-range champion, giving her a reward for autoattacking was a very good way of giving her more to do in a fight. Is there a reason she shouldn't have it? I never see Ori players bitching that they have to autoattack. They're certainly happy enough to autoattack people to death. Is there a real problem here? >Why does Shaco need an AP scaling trap, that is so strange it even has a build and playstyle dedicated to it? Why shouldn't he have it? Allowing for different builds is a pretty damn good thing, and it fits his theme very well. Is there a reason you think he shouldn't have it? >Why does Cho need an autoatack trigger? It gives him a consistent damage threat as a tank despite having skillshot based CC and damage, and it allows for him to be very mana-gated on his powerful skills while also maintaining a strong pushing pressure in lane. Tanks usually need some kind of consistent damage threat or very reliable CC in order to function. Cho's design explicitly lacks the latter, so he gets the former. As a side point, it also enables jungling. It doesn't have to be this way, but there's nothing wrong with his part of his design. It does the job fine. The only complaint I might levy at it is that it isn't set up well to be used by squishier Cho builds. A better example of this problem would probably be Annie's E. There's a skill that really makes no sense.
>Because Xypherous wanted to make a champion that would be played in every worlds since her creation went ahead and cut out alot of useless text
: Issues with Rek'Sai's new Ult
Welcome to sion ult. Enjoy your stay on the bench.
Vectros (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=From The Cosmos,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AWM4EFki,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-05-31T22:12:07.726+0000) > > For me personally, I miss when the game went on longer. Season 1-3 sort of style. If you were behind, you warded up, played safe and turtled until the enemy makes a mistake. Everyone now a days is so quick to assume the game is over at the 15-20 minute mark when this is not always the case. > Unless you're Diamond 1 60LP+ the game is not over before 10-20 minutes unless something catastrophic happens (Vayne penta kill at 10 minutes, every lane is 0/3 stuff like that) > > People often times compare themselves to challenger streams and LCS players when in reality the game is a different world entirely in Solo queue in the bronze-plat range. You can always turtle, play smart and bank on the enemy making a mistake as it is almost guaranteed to happen. The game at a challenger level is different because one simple mistake can cost the lane or the game, whereas in something like Silver, you can make many many mistakes, throw the lead in the enemy favor, and then come back because the enemy throws the game at baron or makes a lot of other severe mistakes. The "wow 2/0 Yasuo, gg" mentality is by far my biggest frustrations with the game. The culture of people in lower elos comparing themselves to challenger is just unrealistic. A lot of veteran players will know what I'm talking about. The culture in this game was so different before there was seasons. Pretty much my feelings. Sometimes I do want to surrender...but often my team is saying FF when it's 0/3...no turrets dead or anything. Like what?
by giving even more generous surrender options (early surrender) you only validate the idiots who think the game is lost because the strong early game team has you guys down 11-4. And even tho your team is an enormous late game scaling behemoth and you have no inhibs down. When people see you can surrender earlier, they naturally assume the game is decided earlier. This is why the surrender option should not exist. Cold turkey, get it the fuck out of here. Force people to actually play till the end and you'll be amazed the kind of comebacks that happen. and for gods sake get rid of rift herald, what the holy fuck were you thinking riot? Did the interns get this one as a project? Just make the first dragon spawn a coinflip between baron pit and dragon pit, and make junglers actually adjust accordingly to the evolution of the map without adding another (the team that takes this first wins 70% of the time) objective to the map.
: WE NEED TO BE VOCAL ABOUT THE IMPENDING 10 BAN SYSTEM
Riot just needs to give up and nick Dota's ban system wholesale. They are not smarter, they should just try not to fuck up as much as they can.
: ***
That sounds great, a carry with enormous sustained damage that you dont actually want to try and get to. She'll absolutely run roughshot over LCS for a couple weeks and then she'll get nerfed. the cycle continues.
øHaruø (NA)
: When a toxic teammate looks for help from the enemy team
The other team is disagreeing with him to encourage further infighting with your team and make their game a lock. If someone fucked up on your team they know it, they don't need your top to ask them
Fàtèd (NA)
: Different types of League players! (Which one is you?)
Optimist here, and believe in throws. they believe in you. If Optimist is here, can we had "Guy who died twice in lane and thinks the team should surrender?" These are far more common. would also add "MR Wizard". How did Rammus just Firstblood Darius in the middle of top lane 1v1? I don't fucking know... its magic.
: Heimerdinger top was definitely worse than Teemo, but Teemo was far more likely to be picked. Heimer also just got a rework with the goal of reducing his oppressive laning phase vs melee champions, unlike Teemo.
yeah, teemo just flat out loses to most meta toplane melee due to mobility creep.
: RIOT, Can We Get a Zac Skin? It's been 2 years
Your character does not have the playerbase to sell skins so you just have to deal.
: How Garen proposes to Kat
I dunno, i always saw vagabond Garen as being canon at some point. Maybe Darius purges the nobles and Kat is captured, recruits Garen to rescue Kat by being a distraction against a huge number of enemies berserk 100 man fight style, while Talon infiltrates to get her. Then when Talon tries to leave Garen to die and flee with Kat she turns on him and goes back to help him. Hence they both go into exile.
: Dont forget the biggest offender {{champion:82}} Nerf his mobility more
don't forget that {{champion:86}} his Q speed and silence duration because he was too mobile and sticky. Hue.
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MetalGearTeemu

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