: Pretty much exactly what this guy seemed to need! Honestly not sure how you don't know how to basic attack though?? considering that you have that Christmas icon from years ago, but I guess we all learn at different paces!
Lol. It's true, I'm just not very good at the game! (although I'm better with mages and tanks) More seriously, I understand kiting and not trying to attack the back-line but I have a lot of trouble turning that conceptual understanding into effective battlefield positioning. I panic slightly when threatened which makes it difficult to kite effectively in an actual battle.
Rioter Comments
: I would say aspect because they're stronger than {{champion:136}} but we don't know how {{champion:432}} compares to {{champion:142}} . Though I agree that we need to know how other gods stack up compared to the aspects. Nagakoburos, {{champion:60}} 's spider thing, {{champion:516}} and {{champion:106}} 's parents, etc. Heck, Kindred could even be in there somewhere.
I'm pretty sure Aurelion Sol only appears weaker due to the conditions of his servitude. In one of his stories he does casually obliterate the previous Pantheon.
: i think minion dematerializer should do the old aoe smite thing, where it allows you to clear most of an entire wave of minions from a decent distance. or at least the caster minions. this would be great for someone whos heavily pressured in lane by his opponent and still wants to be able to get as much farm as possible. the limited use of 6 charges makes this decent to get through the early levels without being too crazy of a pushing tool.
This was what I thought the rune was when I originally read the description: a limited-use wave delete button to use for emergencies. I was rather disappointed to discover what it actually did.
: > [{quoted}](name=SpecterVonBaren,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jVJpkjcN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-28T23:23:44.495+0000) > > Where do you suggest all of these timers be put? On the buff bar. Not every rune has a cooldown, and unless you're picking runes from like, 3+ trees (which you can't obviously), it wouldn't clutter too much.
I believe all keystone runes have their cooldown directly visible on the bar, which is good. I think putting ALL the rune cooldowns on the bar could get a bit cramped, but I would love to be able to see them in the stat panel.
: why do they care so much that marksmen have to be played at worlds? and by that i dont mean to make them generally unviable for pro play, but isnt making them an optional strategic choice instead of mandatory still the goal? this looks to me like theyre enforcing marksmen to be mandatory for a teamcomp for the sake of it. even if its specifically for worlds games its stupid as hell, as theyre not letting teams the option to develop their own strategies that dont revolve around marksmen + supports.
I'm pretty sure what he meant was that Riot doesn't like to shake up the meta too much in the patches leading up to Worlds and he just did a poor job of spelling that out. (As you say, the alternative makes no sense.)
: The way I understood this was, that the Ionian monks wouldn't give up on their peace loving nature even when the Noxians started bashing their country. Karma said _"Y'all bein crazy. Get yo ass to da fron' and whip 'em in de baby boxes."_ Or put differently: She rallied the Ionian people because she understood that, while war was a way of destruction, so was complete neglection of force. Being willing to fight to uphold peace is a necessity. A balance of dominance, as you put it, and freedom must be uphold to rule properly. Or put differntly again: _A death can save thousands, a life saved can doom millions._
Ok, so, I did some brainstorming on possible themes for Karma (or maybe she's all of them put together?). I don't know if I like all of them, but I'll put it out for everyone to see. --- **SACRIFICE** Karma chose to stain her hands with blood to preserve the pacifistic ways of her people as well as save their lives. This theme centers around one individual sacrificing themselves for the greater good of the team. Possibly that individual is Karma; possibly someone else. Maybe Mantra could be used to choose which of the two it is. **WILLPOWER** Power corrupts, as can be seen with the darker Ionian champions (although in Varus' case it was more the opposite). This theme presents Karma as being strong willed enough to wield power without being corrupted by it. However, the more often you call upon power the more tempted you may be to use it. Treat this razor's edge carefully. **SERENITY** Karma is, first and foremost, a spiritual leader. She is not a general marshaling troops but a charismatic icon who has spent most of her life using her magic to protect people. t was only a time of great peril that forced her to do harm. This theme is about Karma protecting her allies and warding off enemies by making it difficult and dangerous for them to advance.
: > I'm not really sure how helpful this was. Karma is clearly a spiritual individual, but I'm not sure how that leads to a coherent kit. I enjoyed reading this. It's well struktured and feels like an objective but slightly more distant view than I am used from other Karma mains and myself. I teaches me how others can see this divide or her identity problems. Thank you Jim.
I took a few minutes to browse the lore on Ionia and this is what I came up with: Ionian spirituality is about peace with yourself and harmony with the world around you. Ionian buildings and temples build with nature in mind, rather than clearing it out of the way. Also the vastyan tribes in Ionia have more contact with their human counterparts. Ionia's villains (Zed, Syndra, Jhin) all represent dominance. They follow their path regardless of how it affects others and consider other opinions to be wrong. They chafe under any sort of restrictions, rather than accept that they must share the world with other people. Supposedly Karma wants to unite these two beliefs into a new path. Keep the harmony of the first while borrowing the power of the second. What do people think of this interpretation? What kind of abilities can we come up with that relate to such a theme?
: > [{quoted}](name=Kloqdq,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=qjiE8F2E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-09-26T20:06:27.694+0000) > > Nocturne and Shaco are also confirmed to be demons. Though they are both in need of work lore and kit wise XD. Which of the remaining sins do you think work best for them? Greed, Envy, Wrath, Pride and Sloth remain
I actually feel like Shaco is a shoe-in for Pride. Not because he is prideful. No. He is Pride's foil. Look at him. He looks like a clown and attacks people with jack-in-the-boxes. He treats everything like a joke. He doesn't take anything seriously, even the way he walks (look at his splash). He is the demon that tears down Pride.
: Karma: The Old, The New and The Ugly
The design team describes a champion as having three pillars: gameplay, narrative, and art. So let's take a look at that. --- **Gameplay:** One of the big barriers I've observed among Karma fans is that there isn't really a consensus on what kind of champion she's supposed to be. The most common I see referenced are Enchanter and Battle Mage. She seems to vaguely line up with Orianna and Lux but is clearly more support-oriented. To me her most iconic actual skill is her Mantra. Without it she wouldn't be Karma, and (to me) her passive creates an easy skill-based feedback loop. More skilled players are rewarded with more Mantras. Now, the currently incarnation of this isn't ideal, but the concept is sound. **Narrative:** Karma's lore describes her as an extremely strong-willed (to the point of manifesting fiery twin dragons through sheer willpower) and spiritual woman who seeks to revolutionize Ionia's spiritual practices. Specifically she is described as wanting to combine traditional spiritual practices with military strength. **Art:** Her various splash arts seem to center around her being calm, peaceful, and spiritual (with Warden Karma standing out as an exception). Two of her skins depict her meditating (three if you count the classic, although it's not quite clear what she's doing there), and two depict her as a semi-divine spirit. --- I'm not really sure how helpful this was. Karma is clearly a spiritual individual, but I'm not sure how that leads to a coherent kit.
Rioter Comments
Fearless (NA)
: Runes Paths Overview
How much do you expect players to branch out into less obvious paths based on their champion class? I mean, is it assumed that every Mage will choose Sorcery as their primary path and if they don't they're "doing it wrong"? Or is there enough flexibility in the rune options that someone like Karthus could go Resolve primary / Precision secondary? EDIT: I don't want this to be a scary question. I mean, I think it's fine if most Tanks will choose Resolve and most Marksmen choose Precision. I'm just kind of curious if the Paths were designed more towards theme or function I guess?
Rioter Comments
: Cont'd: * **Marksmen should specialize in different things:** Right now, the power of marksmen is often very generic, particularly since so much of it is centered around autoattacks, which are more or less the same for everyone. Taking a little bit of power off of their autoattacks and onto more unique forms of marksman power would allow them to specialize in things like dueling, teamfighting, utility, and so on without covering all of that at the same time. Because there would be less overlap across marksmen, it would open up a lot more diversity by itself, as long as each marksman also gets to put forth their own unique contributions. --- #How I think we should go about changing marksmen: * **Overhaul marksman itemization:** Itemization I think is still the biggest problem with marksmen, as it's too stat-focused and has some really awfully-designed stats to boot, namely crit and life steal. Marksman itemization should focus on attack speed and interactive gameplay effects for the most part (attack speed should be the stat bound to marksmen, as is already mostly the case), and while they could have defensive options, the latter need to actually present real tradeoffs, and not give major offensive power on top of their defenses. * **Rework steroids to be more conditional:** This I think has more to do with specific marksmen than the class as a whole, but the marksman class needs to be scrubbed of on-demand stat steroids. Steroids should definitely exist, but they should always either be conditional upon making a play, or have some significant drawback that other players can exploit (so Jinx's Q, but a bit harsher). Double-edged abilities, such as a massive damage boost that makes the user highly vulnerable, could appear much more as a result. * **Remove creep block:** This may sound unrelated to marksmen, but I think is one of the main reasons why they bully melee champions so hard: for a ranged champion, it's easy to hit a melee opponent from behind the friendly wave, but for a melee champion to do the same, they need to wade through a whole bunch of minions with collision radii, and then walk back around as they're getting focused by the enemy wave. Removing this obstacle would make trading a bit fairer for melee champions, while also addressing the annoyances with random creep block catastrophes that we're all well aware of by now. * **Remove movement speed as a stat on marksman items and buff the base speed of melee champions, while nerfing the rest of their mobility and stats accordingly:** Also not 100% related to marksmen, but a big issue with how they interact with melee champions is through kiting, namely _hard kiting_. Hard kiting is the ability to completely keep an opponent at bay, and I think that should never happen in a game like League of Legends, because in spite of its difficulty, it has little to no counterplay and feels immensely frustrating to whoever's on the receiving end. It's also a big driving factor behind mobility creep on melee champions, who cannot really function by simply walking from one point to another. Making melee champions consistently faster would give them a unique advantage to match the range of ranged champions, and turn kiting into _soft kiting_, where ranged champions would only be able to hold melee opponents at bay for a limited time. In turn, this would also allow melee champions to be balanced in such a way that they don't need to one-shot squishy targets, or be overloaded on stats and mechanics, to have a chance against ranged foes. * **For now, lower AD on marksman itemization:** This is more of a short-term solution, but currently marksman damage is simply too high, and life steal as a result is too strong. Keeping attack speed and crit at similar levels (or bringing it up to 100% more easily), while lowering the raw amount of AD marksmen get on their own items, would place more emphasis on persistent damage over burst. And that's just about my opinions on marksmen. There's likely more to be said, but this post is long enough as is, so I'll leave it at that and chip in on other players' comments. **EDIT:** One thing I think is worth mentioning here is that I think the current state of marksmen _hurts marksmen as well_. I don't think it's fun for marksmen to get focused by 4+ players from the laning phase onwards, and being the team's VIP each time means there's also a lot of pressure to do things exactly right, as the entire outcome of the match can rest on how well you do even within the first few minutes. Marksmen deserve to carry and be amazing at what they do, but they should also have the option to take a back seat in fights and have someone else carry while they do their thing. Even when they do carry, marksmen shouldn't have to expect to get dogpiled by the enemy team if they or their frontline are an inch out of position, and when they do get attacked they shouldn't have to rely on oodles of defensive effects to not blow up each time, which can happen even against tanks. I think addressing other classes could also help marksmen and the game as a whole, and I think one of the things that could be done to that effect could be to separate the damage of tanks from their CC comboes, as otherwise they get to damage squishies far too hard and far too reliably.
I'm fairly fond of the idea of replacing crit chance on items with crit damage and causing each individual marksman (and a few other champions) to crit with attacks or certain spells under specific conditions. I.E. Ashe crits against slowed targets, Jhin crits with his fourth shot, Lucian crits with his passive shots, and other stuff like that.
SephAgro (NA)
: Critical strike needs to be the next focus
If I were to completely change critical hits, I would actually make individual champions crit in specific ways and replace crit chance on items with crit damage. Champions would also not all start with the same amount of crit damage. For example: Jhin only crits on his fourth shot but has a huge damage amplifier; Ashe would function pretty much as she does right now; Varus could crit on his abilities that pop blight stacks; maybe Kogmaw just automatically crits while his W is active. I'm not really suggesing any of these changes. Altering crit would require rebalancing around twenty champions and a pile of items, which in turn requires rebalancing a bunch of other champions and items, and so on and so on. But it's fun to think about.
Rioter Comments
: That's probably the same excuse Rito makes for making such an unbalanced game. Fact of the matter is Balance comes from mathematics and experience. The more I think about it Riot should just let Champion mains determine their balance levels, since they know the champion better then a developer that who isn't putting in the same time playing the champ. Before you say players will abuse their power, there are easy ways to avoid that like a rational debate. Final thought, we should make a congress for player changes. Each champ will hold their own balance forums and polls. Then once every patch all elected champion main representatives will debate the changes, until an agreement is found. :D
Actually I am reminded of a quote I heard once. I think it involved DnD or Pathfinder forums. But one of the designers said something along the lines of "Players are very good at spotting problems and very bad at providing solutions." Wise words I think.
Meddler (NA)
: Any specific thoughts on what? Agree it's a ripe space to change.
Modifying Recall was my initial reaction as well. It just seems the most appropriate. Incoming idea dump. Hopefully some are useful as inspiration. * When cast in base returns you to the last place you recalled from (possibly can only be done within a small window, lke Ekko ult). * Can be cast in base (or perhaps from anywhere) to go to your farthest standing tower in a targeted lane, cannot be cast normally. * Other champions can join your recall (like Xayah and Rakan) to reduce their own recall time. * Reduce duration of recall channel based on missing health. Optionally instead (or in addition) recalling is not interrupted by damage. * You cannot recall at all but in return gain additional starting gold. Optionally recalling has limited number of charges per match. * All champions within a certain range of you (friend or foe) cannot recall and have their channels interrupted. You are unaffected. * All champions near you (friend or foe) cannot use ANY blink or teleport effects, including recall. This includes you.
Ysayle (EUW)
: The problem is NOT "will we win the game ultimately", in the end. Sure, maybe we will. The problem is that sitting for 45 minutes in a game that is 90% lost is PAINFUL. Of course, if we surrendered every times the game didn't go our way, we wouldn't win a lot. But when the game is honest to goodness almost entirely lost, why go through the pain of spending easily 25 minutes losing, knowing you pretty much can't do anything about it?
It certainly sucks to sit through a game where you feel completely helpless, but if the game is truly unwinnable I feel like it wouldn't take the enemy almost half an hour to actually close the game out. (unless they're deliberately not destroying the nexus in which case yes surrender is appropriate)
: What's the story of your Summoner Name?
I pay homage to two great games from my youth : Earthworm Jim and Alpha Centauri. Also my name is Jim. Every time I make an account with this name I am shocked that no one claimed It before me.
Rioter Comments
Sparkle (NA)
: Mannnn, it's not safe to say any of that yet haha. That's a lotta assumptions make off of the statement "this Perxie art isn't final", which is alls I'm saying in this instance. We'll have more details coming out soon; let's talk specifics then.
Hmm, I'm going to guess runes end up looking something like the following : --- **Keystone Rune** (1) - Powerful effects that require specifics type of actions to trigger. _EXAMPLES : See most existing Keystones and the examples in the video._ **Greater Runes** (1-2) - Strong but slightly niche passive effects. _EXAMPLES : Double-Edged Sword, Greenfather's Gift, Insight_ **Lesser Runes** (3-4) - Flat statistical bonuses. Think slightly stronger Quintessences. _EXAMPLES : +5 Attack Damage, 3.33% Cooldown Reduction_ --- I would expect the final results to be slightly more powerful than the examples I've listed, since we'll have less total bonuses compared to Live. Also I hope that as many of them as possible are interesting and interactive. Just as an out-of-my-ass example, I imagine Double-Edged Sword converting a small portion of your total Armor into AD.
: What I said is true at LEAST 90% of the time Look for it in your games High Noon Yasuo wins Project Yasuo Loses
Can confirm. I own Project Yasuo and I suck as him.
: Sejuani's Double-Armor Iceborn Gauntlet Says Hi.
On the one hand, this looks pretty clearly like an oversight with potentially unpleasant ramifications. On the other hand, I dig it.
How about the mirror match? What do you do if the enemy toplaner is also using this guide?
: I literally cannot watch IEM Gyeonggi since the picks are literally all the same. It's boring as hell. Worlds had better diversity than this. I could care less how flashy Thresh and Lee Sin are, they're boring. I'd rather see things like Urgot and Darius, but according to the pros they'd be bad. I can't see how Urgot could be bad, or why no one's touched Yorick or Kled considering the former's insane splitpushing and the latter's early-game strength and roaming.
It's an unfortunate thing but the professional level actually discourages diversity by its very nature. While the game is certainly not perfectly balanced, the actual difference in strength between the very top and bottom champions is fairly low (a few outliers aside). The problem is that professional games are extremely important to teams. If a team loses too many they are demoted from the league, which is essentially the same as losing their jobs. Thus pro players tend to gravitate towards safe picks and well-established patterns, rather than risk everything on a weird pick.
Chroyo (NA)
: My first penta of the year was with Yasuo
You must atone for your sins tenfold. Cast yourself into the fountain ten times for each innocent you have slain. Only then may you return.
Lux HD (NA)
: Can we talk about Thornmail for a second?
At 300 attack damage and 30 magic resist you need over 40% lifesteal to negate the damage reflected from a target with just a Thornmail and 50 base armor. If the attacker has 100 magic resist they still need almost 30% lifesteal to negate all the reflect damage.
: I have to somewhat disagree. Although I do not think Nami's design will ever make her broken, when she was a meta support in mid season 4 her synergy with champions like Lucian and especially Caitlyn was overbearing. (For Caitlyn, she could just run it down bot lane and do 100 damage poke on each AA, and it was extremely difficult for everyone but Ezreal and Lucian to kite) Overall I'd say Nami and Thresh are the two best designed supports (Mechanically in empowering the support player) and should be the basis for future support designs if Riot really want to get people to play support.
I'm fairly confident that one of the best ways to balance a support (sorry, Enchanters) is to give them terrible wave-clear. Every time an Enchanter has strong wave clear the game gets wonky. Janna from long ago, pre-rework Soraka, Lulu at various times ... it's just never worked out.
: You know..... one has to wonder what actually will happen if the masks are removed. Riot said that you don't want it to happen.......EVER. Will reality cease to exist, or something?
I imagine removing Kindred's masks is a bad idea the same way pulling down the Grim Reaper's hood is a bad idea. Humans gave death a face for a reason.
: Making Rylais a tankier option would actually allow Riot to buff Azir
I do find it curious that Riot was looking to push Rylais towards damage instead of health, seeing as Frozen Mallet specifically doesn't add that much damage. I don't think it really has anything to do with the specific champions. It's just that high crowd control plus high damage in one package is extremely powerful. It's why any time a tank's damage gets too high they nerf it pretty quickly.
: It should cost him flow, and the duration would depend in how much of it he expended, ala Tryndamere's heal.
Random thought: What if casting Windwall reset his Steel Tempest stacks and prevents him from acquiring more stacks while the wall is active? Force him to choose between offensive or defensive tools. _Disclaimer : I hold no opinion regarding whether or not Yasuo needs balance changes at this time._
9kPluzZ (NA)
: J4 does the same thing, its intended
J4 is a special case, as I believe his drag combo is coded as a self-inflicted knockback (or some other form of forced movement) rather than some sort of dash. As far as I know this is intentional.
: Common theme I am seeing "If you don't like the current state and design of supports in the game, it's probably just not the right role for you." Obviously, not for 'anybody'. The Queue times prove this. 'Nobody' wants to play support. And I play it in loads of other games, healers, utility mages, engineers, medics. But in these other games, they make you feel far more impactful, independant, less helpless and more valuable all around.
Could you go into more detail on what you mean about supports being too symbiotic? Perhaps give some more examples on abilities you don't like? I'm kind of confused by this line of thought, since to me that's kind of what support means. You support people. It's like a TF2 Medic. You're primary task is to heal your teammates, but if you have no teammates around you are dead in the water.
Enlegacy (NA)
: That sounds like it would be a good idea, but one possible problem with that I see is that before Yasuo gets IE with Stattik/PD he will deal less damage, but it sounds manageable.
I thought about that, but I figure that at that point in the game enemies won't actually have that much armor to penetrate anyway.
Enlegacy (NA)
: Probably lowering base damage on his abilities and reducing his passive crit penalty, making him want to build at least 2 items for his 100% crit.
_Disclaimer _: I have not yet encountered a tank Yasuo build, so I'm going off second-hand information. Someone somewhere suggested making the bonus armor penetration from his ultimate only apply to critical hits, which I like because it means a non-crit Yasuo build loses a lot of potential power whereas the damage builds don't even notice there's a nerf.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mindworm Jim,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bUZYMEfB,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-08-08T17:51:33.184+0000) > > Sorry to be off-topic, but Windspeaker's seems an odd choice for Leona. Does it enhance the shields from Face of the Mountain and Locket? Wasn't on purpose. Forgot to swap from sona masteries.
Aha. The dreaded "previous settings" beast strikes again.
: If you won't remove dynamic queue, at least fix matchmaking.
Sorry to be off-topic, but Windspeaker's seems an odd choice for Leona. Does it enhance the shields from Face of the Mountain and Locket?
Qwinn (EUW)
: Bring back Teemo in One for All
I spectated a 10 man Teemo match on Howling Abyss once. I've never seen a more realistic depiction of World War One.
: Is balancing this game possible?
If you define balance as "no one is complaining", then no. The game will never be balanced. Players will always disagree on what is best and someone will complain. It'a an unavoidable facet of life. You can't please everyone. However, what I suspect most people mean when they say balanced they mean an extremely diverse meta with multiple strategic routes to victory, where every champion has a unique but not overly necessary role to fill and disadvantageous match ups can be overcome with skillful and clever play. That CAN be achieved, but is EXTREMELY difficult, especially considering a game as complex as League. That said, Riot does seem to me to be trying to push the game in that direction and I have overall been pleased with watching their design and balance teams learn and grow. (Now, how WELL they have been moving towards that goal is debatable, but their heart looks to be in the right place.)
: There's no record of that match in LoLnexus, so all we have is your story, I'll just assume you missed everything and Twitch was overly ahead, because I can't think of many champions who can withstand Illaoi's punishment, specially not a squishy rat.
Actually Illaoi strikes me as almost entirely sustained AoE damage, which is the last thing you would want to use against someone with a lot of life-steal. She wants to jump on top of the enemy team and smash everyone at once, 1v1 she doesn't really get the most out of her abilities unless you walk into a tentacle nest. Not that this means Marksman items are strong or weak, just saying that Illaoi may not be the best reference point.
: Yup, pretty spot on. Cho is considered "unique playstyle" along Fiddle, Blitz, Kennen, Urgot and Singed. **Battle Mages** [Source](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list) * Karthus * Vladimir * Ryze * Swain * Rumble * Cassiopeia * Aurelion Sol * Gangplank (hybrid Skirmisher) * Malzahar Additionally **Galio **(Warden), **Brand **(Burst Mage) and **Karma **(Enchanter) got a _"(hybrid Battle Mage)"_ noticifaction in their subclass. _"Battle Mages get into the middle of the fray, seeking to wreak havoc upon the entire enemy team with their overwhelming sustained area damage. Due to their relatively short (but not melee) combat ranges and the need to burn down their opponents over time, Battle Mages have significant defensive capabilities that range from sustaining endlessly to literally defying death for a short period of time."_ [Source](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses)
Oh hey, how did I not see this Dev Blog before? This is really cool, and makes talking about design goals waaaaaaaayyyyyy easier. So yeah, Karma looks like she wants to be in the midpoint between Battlemage and one of the Controllers? Oooo, perhaps default abilities are Battlemage/Enchanter and Mantra'd abilities are Battlemage/Disruptor?
Voluug13 (NA)
: I will start by the premise her pre-rework kit was the best, except for her passive, which idgaf. Pre-rework W tether and QR heals are very good examples. They gave Karma high amounts of utility that depended on her positioning in the front lines. RQ heal greatly benefited high HP targets that squishy ones, since it worked off missing HP with a relatively smaller base. Its low range also made Karma a strong, but counterable healer/support. Specially compared to Soraka or Sona, who have problems of being too safe for being a healer. Meanwhile, W and RW were the best aoe haste of the game. 5s duration and 6 cd (at the mandatory 40% cdr), it was basically a permanent aoe haste/single slow/aoe damage ability, that heavily depended on Karma's positioning skills for effectiveness. Her bombshielding also worked as this, as she was supposed, pre-rework, its not utility but heavily contributed to her battlemage identity. Her LuLux/Orianna clone status was a rework _mistake_. It left her as a jack-of-all-trades with no good middle point: either irrelevant when her numbers are good or below (since JoaTs arent very good on specific roles), or opressing when she gets high numbers (since JoaTs can a bit of everything). That is why I say Q/RQ and her passive should not be the priorization of whatever rework Riot is maybe planning. We have several long range utility mages already, an utility battlemage is _way_ more unique that TNT Nidalee with a shield.
So it sounds like you're saying a battlemage would be someone like Swain, Cho'Gath, or Aurelion Sol? Need to be kind of in your face to get the most out of their abilities? And you suggest that Karma should be recast as a battlemage with a heavy utility focus? Hmmmm... Is Cho'Gath her closest analogue?
Voluug13 (NA)
: The entirety of her kit (and fans) is and remains unique. Honestly Riot should rework from Old Karma instead of Scarma, but newer Rioters apparently like her explosive Nidalee spears too much to remember she is a _battlemage_, not _**yet another**_ Artillery mage with utility. We have a lot of that already, but utility battlemage? That is pretty unique.
Out of curiosity, could you give some detail on what you would consider a utility battlemage (or even a normal battlemage) to look like? Most mages given some amount of utility with their crowd control, and we already have utility mages (or maybe support mage is a better term?) like Orianna and Lulu (which is where I personally always classified Karma).
: She had 53% win rate before the patch imo @op, i think at this point everyone realised that sona is gamebreakingly overpowered, you don't need to waste your energy to say it again because the same information do not stack in the human brain tbh. Either you propose a good way to balance her, or you just return to the game and play ~~akali~~ any champ you want.
I wonder if removing the innate damage from Power Chord (and buffing Staccato numbers to account for it) would be something to look into for nerfing her. It's not like the other Power Chord options aren't still totally sweet without the extra damage and it would tone down her overall strength while still allowing a lot of options.
: The toxicity applied to you as a solo player from a premade in your team is subjective (or situational, idk if I used the term correctly). Personally, it doesn't really bug me, since I always muted premades if they flamed at me. I only agree with people playing as a premade, thus having better communication and performance as a team, vs people who don't do so. Riot could give us solo/duo queue back and have dynamic queue as 3-5 people premades as a secondary game type.
I'm inclined to agree with you. An asshole is still an asshole, no matter how many people they have backing them up. Toxic players will probably be toxic, regardless or circumstances. With regards to the other matters: I kind of wonder on how big of a difference there is between 2-person and 3-person pre-mades. If there is no significant gap between the two there might be a solution in there that everyone can live with.
: I am not caught up. Can someone explain to me why does everyone want solo queue back?
I don't play ranked but these are the complaints as I understand them (anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong): * A team with a larger pre-made group has a significant advantage in coordination and team-work, both due to the ability to use voice chat and the fact that they are less likely to argue with each other due to being friends*. Ideally teams are matched against teams with equal size pre-mades, but this will not always be the case so as to prevent absurd queue times. * This advantage creates an unfair match-up when compared to a team of solo-players. This can be adjusted for by matching pre-made groups up against higher skill players, but this leads to the sense that "team" players are of a higher rank than "solo" players. A solo player probably put in a lot of hard work to reach their rank, yet a team player reaches the same elo despite lower skill simply by taking advantage of the benefits of team play. * Lastly, since players are significantly less likely to be unpleasant towards people they actually know, rather than random strangers on the internet, there is the accusation that pre-mades are more toxic. Having one or two players on your team that are "on your side" makes it much easier to blame a poor game on that random stranger. --- _*Well, friends argue about things all the time, but not so about a game in progress._
Tummers (NA)
: Oh geez let me get in here real quick... Like we said [in the rotating game modes announcement](http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/announcing-rotating-game-mode-queue), we're not bringing URF back on April 1 (but it will be appearing at least twice this year). Popstar Urf posts lots of stuff on the site :)
I just assumed we all knew that April 1st this year would celebrate the League of Draven.
Voluug13 (NA)
: >"Highly flexible" leads far too easily into "good at most things", and generalist champions are extremely difficult to balance. The difference here is that most generalistic are also pretty mobile. I mean, look at Elise and Lee Sin, they have out of everything and also mobility, while Karma never will. That is a highly important difference. I am to be honest: Old Karma. Old Karma's basic abilities were way more impactful that current, while the Mantra system (2 charges) allowed you to choose from a multitude of possibilities, but still limited by Mantra. Which is the difference between Lee Sin/Elise and Old Karma, Karma was flexible but couldn't do EVERYTHING at the SAME time and has to choose what part excell from her kit. Her sololane didnt have as strong utility since she didnt level W until last, but had more survivability and burst thanks to leveling Q together with E, while Support Karma had better utility (hi W with 6s cd and 5s duration!) since she leveled W. Currently we have a disfunctional kit that lost its ability to make calls on Mantra because RQ is so overpowered while RW is ridiculously niche and RE is a support ult. And all her kit problems steam from the problem of trying to shove 2 roles into a kit with no duality theme in its Mantra abilities. RQ is purely offensive, RE and RW are purely defensive.
I guess what I really mean is that "flexibility" isn't really a useful foundation to build off of. Telling Riot we want Karma to change by being more flexible won't accomplish anything, whereas saying something like "we want Karma to be the best mage at defending turrets"* actually gives a clear goal. We can sit and agree that Karma can and should be more awesome, but just that alone will never get us anywhere. Kit and abilities ideas are cool, but we're not quite at that step yet. I feel that the best way to make progress is to actually decide what kind of mage Karma should be. *Not saying this is a great idea, just presenting it as an example.
Voluug13 (NA)
: Honestly the problem is in the mantra effects and how mantra works. Old Karma's mantra effects were way more impactful when used correctly. Mantra was an ability that wasnt used just as a mediocre LB Ult clone, since it allowed to use up to 2 empowered versions with way more flexibility and only slightly less power that current Mantra. Old Karma weaved Mantra charges for different situations in different ways which were all valid when used correctly. New Karma uses RQ 80% of the time and RW/RE the rest. Current Mantra also has the problem of being extremely binary in lane. Basically Karma needs to get number toned down a bit but need to get back her offensive/defensive power on mantra empowerments. Her niche was the flexibily she brings when it comes to what to level. Old karma had an AoE heal, the game's best team haste, and the game's best shield, but she had to choose what to level up and focus on. She needs less focus in trying to shove her into support too.
Hmm, it would be really interesting to see a character who had skills with non-linear leveling. It would make choosing which skill to max out first really important. Seems like things would get out of hand once you reach level 18 though. Flexibility is good, and is something that Karma should definitely have, but I'm not sure it's best as an overall goal. "Highly flexible" leads far too easily into "good at most things", and generalist champions are extremely difficult to balance. Although you could get around it by giving her a set of diverse but very specific tools, somewhat like Bard (but then you are more support than mage). I don't know, maybe that's not what you mean. Help me out here.
Show more

Mindworm Jim

Level 34 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion